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A Guide to sPvP (0. Beginners Guide)

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Django.5923

Introduction

This guide is aimed at absolute beginners of spvp. I will explain basics, what your goal is, what you have to do , explain the map layouts and show builds.


1. The mists or; How to get started

Open your PvP tab (the two swords on the top) and click on “go to the mists”.
You are now in the PvP Area of Guild Wars. In this area you always are level 80 and armor is purely cosmetic. Runes are bought at a rune vendor (for free) and sigils at the weaponsmith.
The Amulet vendor sells amulets. In pvp you don’t have earrings, etc. Only 1 amulet with 1 stone.
You now have several options. At first I recommend you search yourself a good build to start pvping.

On my stream I always list all the current spvp meta builds:

http://de.twitch.tv/djangogw2

Now that you have built your build, I would try you test it on a golem until you feel somewhat safe.

Then open your PvP tab and click on the third called “game browser”. This is called “hot join”. If you just want to kill something and not really play the “real” pvp this is the place for you. I would recommend that you test your build here until you are about rank 10.

Please join a map with 5/5 teams not a map with 8/8 because then you can prepare for playing soloqueue and teamqueues. 8v8 is just stupid zerging and you will learn nothing.


2. rank? glory?

when you win you get rank and glorypoints. Glory is a currency spent on the gloryvendors in the mists for new armorskins or salvageable items.
Rankpoints give you a new rank with the time, which is displayed after a game. Each 10 rankpoints you will get a finisher.

I will link to wiki for more detailed information:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/PvP_Rank
______________________________________________

3. The basics

“what to do on the maps other than killing people?”

Always remember; Play to win not to kill! Zerging is for wvw. You get more points, if your team wins.

The game mode is Conquest. The rules are:

- One point is gained every two seconds per captured point.
- Player kills award 5 points.
- The team who reaches 500 points first, wins.
- A game is 15 minutes, after the time runs out the team with more points wins.
- Every map has only 3 Points. 1 close to your “base” the “closepoint”. One close to their base the “farpoint” and the “mid”.
- Every map has secondary objectives, which we will see later in the map section.

These points are essential for winning a game. Some rules regarding capture points:

- you capture a point in 10 seconds if no opponent stands on it. If an opponent stands on it nothing will happen as you stand on the point.
- you decapture a point in 4 seconds if no opponent stands on it. If an opponent defends it you have to knock him off or defeat him to decapture it.

This said your primary objectives should always be:

- decapping points
- capping points
- defending points

To do all the above you have to win fights. So fight on/at points not somewhere on the map. You should only zerg the map if your team has more node points and you are winning.


4. “How and where should I move?”

You ALWAYS have to think like this:

“If I move there now, will my team have a disadvantage? Do I really need to move? Or does the opponent need to react on us rather than we on him?”

This said, always keep in mind that you are fighting 5v5. And there are 3 points on every map, what means you only need to have 2 points to win.
Helping your teammates winning a fight is always better then going somewhere else and pushing on 3 points (unless you know they loose even with you in the fight). Because if you go farpoint and they loose mid because of you (they had a 4v3 thus were outnumbered) you will get farpoint. But the map is empty! you are 2v5 at best on the map and they will overrun and “triplecap” you (capping all 3 points). So that 1 farpush from you could have cost your team the win.

Always think before you move


5. "But what is my role in the team?

As stated above you have to do 3 things:

- kill stuff (help defending/capping)
- Defend
- Decap

- If you want to kill stuff you should play a roamer (thief, engi, necro, warrior, ele, mesmer, dmgguardian)
- If you want to defend you should play a bunker (guardian for mid, ranger for sidepoints)
- If you want to decap play either a dedicated decap bunker (engineer, elementalist) or a really fast roamer to decap when nothing is on the point (thief and possibliy mesmer/ele)

Please read my second Guide for more information on what to do in your team

sPvP roles and teamcompilations

(edited by Django.5923)

A Guide to sPvP (1. Teamcomps and roles)

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Django.5923

Nary and Merlin could you delete your post for better overview?^^ would be nice. I wrote so much I didn’t tought I need more than 3 posts….

btw added example of teamcompilations.

A Guide to sPvP (1. Teamcomps and roles)

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Django.5923

Ele is just always the worse option to pick, but you can play it.

You can play a bunker ele as farpoint invader, which works pretty well. A warrioir can’t kill a bunker ele 1v1 and you also can draw 2 ppl and possibly even leave.

You can also play a softtarget glasscannon burster. But Mesmer and Thief is always better.

The problem of ele is a whole other topic

This all said; We (infamous five) Play with ele (Shaku) in top 100 ^^ gives us really hard times and another class (thief, mesmer) would probably be better.

But it’s fun to play non-meta with some success. Altough we would have no chance against an equally good team who plays meta..

So if you play ele and want to have a spot in a team play:

Farpoint Bunker/invader
Glasscannon (you have to be really good to be viable)

A Guide to sPvP (1. Teamcomps and roles)

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Django.5923

4. Examples for teamcompilations

Cheese Mode


S/D Thief
Hambow
Hambow
Spiritranger
Bunker Guard

Basically all the OP classes are being played here. If played good (which they do) you should win every teamfight. Because the team consits of 5 hardtargets (i’m counting the evade everything thief too) which still deal high dmg while even linebacking due to the knockbacks. Probably the best teamcomp at the moment when played good. This is an example for a 3power-1condi build.

Eclipse


Bomb/Nade Engineer
Terror Necro
Hambow
Spiritranger
Bunker Guard

This is an example of the 3condi-1power build which tries to condition-spike the opponent while the warrior linebacks and finishes. With this build you will also play on 2 points and only decap if you won.

Full Power Team


Shatter Mesmer
S/D Thief
Hambow
DPS Guardian
Bunker Guard

This is an example of the 4power build I could see working. Also no dedicated closepoint defender here. Everybody should just roam fast.

Ten Seconds To Rage Quit


S/D Thief
Terror Necro
Hambow
Spiritranger
Bunker Guard

This is an example of a balanced team 2power-2condi who plays the tactic on winning the teamfights. The thief will push if the fight is won or is going to be won.

Infamous Five


Decap Engi
Burst Ele
Hambow
Terror Necro
Bunker Guard

This is an example of a balanced team 2power-2condi. We play the tactics with decaper and without dedicated closepoint defender. The necro or warrior just roams back if something invades. I (engi) try to lure as many opponents on far and decap or even fullcap it, while we win the midfight. Our teamcomp surely isn’t the best, but we managed to play on our favourite classes and still have some success.

The build I would love to play

I would really like to see:


- Engineer (halfbunker)
- Ele (dmg)
- Mesmer (dmg)
- Ranger (bunker)
- Guard (bunker)

If this would be viable I would love it =) But it isn’t that good..

(edited by Django.5923)

A Guide to sPvP (1. Teamcomps and roles)

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3. ROLES IN A TEAM

Based on above I will talk about the different roles now and give some standard builds as guidlines.

3.1 The main Bunker


His role is to hold the point where the big fights are at. The Guardian fits perfectly here, because he has high sustain and the best teamsupport ingame. There really isn’t a better option for this role than the guardian.
Teams should always try to move the guardian to the big fights, thus moving the other bunker on the point where nothing or 1v1’s happen.
In the fights the guardian should bunker the damage of the opponents while providing savestomps and supporting the team with stability, conditionremoves, heal and rezzes.
Bunker Guardian

3.2 The closepointdefender


The closepointdefender should be a strong 1v1 class who can still last against 2 enemies or more for a brief amount of time. He usually caps close at beginning and watches it during the game. He should always ask how many opponents are where, to know if he has to stay on the point or if he can move and support. If you just stupidly stay on your point your team may be outnumbered somewhere and lose because of you, so keep that in mind.
Dedicated closepoint defenders are almost everytime rangers at the moment. But you could also play a 1v1 strong warrior to defend your close.
Spiritranger
Pet Bunker
Hambow Warrior

3.3 The decapper/invader


The invader has the task to keep far decapped or decap it and at best bind 2 opponents at his point, so that the team can win. Basically every bunker would work for this. At the moment we often see engineers with decap troll builds fullfilling this role.
There are many ways to play this build and this is just one of it.
Decapper

3.4 Hardtarget Teamfighter/Roamer


Basically he fullfills the role of dealing damage and winning the teamfights, while providing support and possibilities to help rezzing
Spiritranger
Hambow Warrior
Terror Necro

3.4 Softtarget Teamfighter/Roamer/Sweeper


He has the role of dealing the most damage as possible while providing high mobility to move fast and win fights fast.
S/D Thief
Mesmer
Offguard

There are many more possible builds this is just a general overview.

(edited by Django.5923)

A Guide to sPvP (1. Teamcomps and roles)

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Django.5923

2. GENERAL STRATEGIES REGARDING FIGHTS/DAMAGE

Leaving the capturepoint principle aside let’s just think about strategies for the best possible team regarding damage and the fights. I won’t talk about classes per se in this paragraph.
Because you always need at least 1 bunker (guardian) Let’s look at the other 4 players.

There are some “tools” which we will use to analyze teamcompilations:

There are 2 types of damage:

  • Powerdmg
  • Conditiondmg

And in my opinion 2 mindsets on fights:

  • We win fast. Kill them faster then they can kill us.
  • We last longer. Kill them because they take too long killing us.

Which leads us to 2 different types of targets:

  • Hardtargets
  • Softtargets (usually glasscannons high dmg)

I’ts usually better to have more hardtargets. You die less fast and you have more options to rezz or stay on a point.

2.1. Balanced Team. 2cond-2power


A balanced team -as the name indicates- is a mix of all of the above. You have usually 2 condition- and 2 powerdmg classes while (at least) one of each could be a hardtarget and one a soft target.
It is usual to take at least 1 softtarget in a team I will call that “sweeper” later.
More hardtargets are usually better, because you have less ppl who can die fast and more people who can rezz.
This teamcompilation works really well.

2.2 The condition team 4 cond / 3cond-1power


The condition team focusses on making massive pressure with conditions and outsustain the enemy. A pure condition team would probably not work that well, because you lack the possibility of killing really fast, that’s why most will use at least 1 power class to finish off low enemies (give the “last hit”).
Regarding hardtargets you have the possibility of building every condition class as a hardtarget. Probably you will have 2 hardtargetcondi and 1 softtarget conditioner and 1 softtarget powerdamagedealer.
We don’t see this teamcomp much, because the warrior counters it very well.

2.3 The powerdmg team 4power / 3power – 1condition


Both of these combination work really well at the moment. While 4 powerdmg builds usually don’t play a second bunker and try to win really fast with 2 or more glasscannons, the other possibility is to bring a condition class as the second bunker.
If we look at hardtargets we see why this combination is so successful at the moment. You can build the conditioner and 2 of the powerclasses as hardtarget, leaving you with 1 softtarget and 4 hardtargets (including the guardian), which is perfect for rezzing.
The other reason why this works so well , is that the Warrior just counters conditions, not only by being immune, but also by linebacking due to knockbacks.

A Guide to sPvP (1. Teamcomps and roles)

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Django.5923

Introduction

This guide is aimed at spvp veterans and a little more advanced players to learn about and discuss teamcompilations. I will explain the roles in spvp and how a good teamcomp looks. I would like to see a discussion about the “best” teamcompilations below

(I will write another absolutely basic/beginner guide, where I explain the map layouts and the terms like “bunker” etc. and another guide regarding tactics for each map. This thread is only aimed at teamcompilations).


Chapters

  • 1. General Strategies regarding capturepoints
  • 2. General Strategies regarding fights/damage
  • 3. Roles in a team

1. GENERAL STRATEGIES REGARDING CAPTUREPOINTS

All the strategies for teamcompilations are based to effectively play on the 3-point-capture-system-maps (thanks captain obvious).
But actually think of it: You have 3 points (+ secondary objectives..) which give you points per second. So the team who has more points (nodes) over time wins the game. Simple as that.
All the teamcompilations come from different mindsets regarding the 3 point principle.

1.1 Play safe on 2 points


“we just win the fights on 2 points”
This strategy usually involves 2 Bunkers. One on closepoint and one on the midpoint (usually). The last 3 players are Roamers. The idea behind this strategy is, that you have 2 ppl for each node, who defend it, while your damage dealers roam and you just win every fight.
If you manage to win teamfights well, this strategy proves very successful and is the most used strategy by teams in my opinion.
The whole teambuild should be based on teamfights. And you will only push far, after you won the fight for decapping it quickly and play safe on 2 points again.

1.2 Play safe on 2 while annoying them on far


“We outnumber the enemy and win the fight due to our decapper”
You also play 2 bunkers (one watches mid, one close) but only 2 roamers for the teamfight. You have 1 class who is dedicated to decapping the opponents point
(NOT a thief who just leaves midfight to decap quickly).
This class is ususally a hardcore bunker and the opponent team has to send at least 2 people to their node (2v1) to get it capped. While you have a 1v2 on farpoint your team should win the midfight because you outnumber the enemy.

1.3 Annoy them on far while winning fast


“We outnumber the enemy and win the fight due to our decapper”
Basically the same tactics as above. You just play without a dedicated closepoint defender. The idea is to play on 2 points, while the 3rd points ticks for your team. Meaning: Someone takes closepoint, you inc the midfight while your decapper holds them on far. If everything works out well, the enemy can’t really push your close (because they have to send 2 ppl to kill your decapper and then have problems in the midfight).

1.4 Just win fast


“We just win the fights on 2 points”
You play only one midbunker, no dedicated closepoint defender and no dedicated decapper. You decap after you won the fights (or after somebody died, or your thief is low). You have 4 dmg roamers, move fast and win fights fast.

1.5 Bunker them


“We just bunker everything”
There are teams out there who play with 4 or more bunkers (usually the 5th is a decapper which is also a bunkerish class.) The idea behind this is, that you inc every point. Keep them decapped and cap over time using knockbacks.

CDI Topic: Rewards in PvP

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Hi, my toughts about the changes here I’ve been playing pvp since start of the open Beta and haven’t stopped since.

Ladder

What this game needed since start. But it should NOT be playerbased. GW2 needs a Guild based ladder. (make so that at least 3/5 have to be from the guild, and you can only play for a guild if you are in it for 2 weeks or something, to avoid smurfing. But that is another theme to discuss)

Removing Rank and glory

I personally think this is a BAD idea. It just doesn’t bring anything positiv. Why not keep both? Give us glory AND gold. I think a player needs something who shows, how much time he invested in this gamemode, which a ladderspot just doesn’t show correctly. Let’s say I have been a top 10 player for 5 months, one of the best. Now I stop playing and drop out of the ladder. I come back and have absolutely nothing to show my skill again (you know how I mean it).

Players need:

- A Ladder to indicate “I am better than you”
- A PERSONAL rank system to indicate “I played more than you and have a bigger e-kitten”

I don’t care about gloryfarmers. I personally like to play for the gloryfinisher (and wanted to get phoenix someday.. currently r61). But I also like to see me having a bigger number than others.

So I think rank should stay as something complementary.

I honestly would play less, if I woulnd’t get rank points!

So I would recommend thinking of something in addition (rather not removing everything we worked for..) but give us gold in addition to glory.

Armors

This is great. BUT it also removes one of the only indicators of better players (gloryfarmers left aside…). Now I see someone with flame armor “oh he is r50+”. Later on EVERYONE has it.
That’s another reason why I think rank should STAY as a system that indicates the invested time in this mode.

Fused gauntlets

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you can never get them again! that’s the problem….

Fused gauntlets

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could it be possible to create an NPC or something with which you can convert a fused gauntlet to another?

I have 5 heavy fused gauntlets and 4 light and no medium. And the only class I would want a fused gauntlet on is my engineer…

What do you think about this suggestion?

Leaderboard Questions

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Just a few short questions I’d really like to have answered..

1.) Will there ever be a teamrating/leaderboard like in gw1? and WHEN?

- This would drastically improve pvp, because even pve guilds will have fun to achieve something TOGETHER.

2.) Why are the websites for leaderboards not implemented ingame? is it so hard? Isn’t the trading company also an implemented website?

Glory Gain Bug

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Bug? seriously?

Guys. the FIRST TIME since this game is out, the glory gain is divided correctly:

- hot join gives the least

- soloqueue a little more

- team queue the most

This could actually balance the ranks so that the better players have better ranks… plz don’t fix this..

especially don’t hotfix this, while gloryfarm is out there for MONTHS.

It’s just unfair for all the players who really play.

Who counters Warriors?

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dudes… at the moment. NOTHING counters the warrior. There are some classes who MAY win a 1v1. But you’ll never hear somebody say; “oh it’s just a kittening warrior no kittening problem I win 100%”.

The warriors who loose a 1v1 are 1) bad warriors and/or 2) were playing against a better warrior.

A real counter should not only counter the warrior 1v1 but also in a teamfight. That simply doesn’t exists.

Ugh the endless nerf warrior topics..

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Didn’t really read the whole thread. But seriously everyone, if you think warrior is NOT op atm, you just have no idea of pvp.

Warrior OP? Let's prove it.

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Why would you even have to prove it. Everyone who seriously plays pvp knows that warriors are OP. If you think they aren’t OP you have no idea of pvp atm^^

warriors have no real counter. They have stability against cc, massive condition hate and can lineback with stuns (taking out dmg), while dealing massive dmg themselves.

They need to be nerfed again. And how that should happen has been stated many times in the forums. But they will never listen or change it.

Banner buff is coming probably

Constructive criticism (or writing gas..)

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state of the game is a joke. A few players who have insight talking with ppl who have no idea and make fake promises… It’s sad but true.

I’m talking about giving the top players FULL power to make the patch. Do everything they discussed. I’m sure it would turn out good…

Halloween pvp items drop from chests?

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We are fully aware of the problem of lacking communication and will pass this constructive criticism on to the team. keep up the good posts!

Constructive criticism (or writing gas..)

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I really don’t get why they don’t ask the good players.

Take like 10 top players and talk 10 hours with them about every class and every skill. Do what they say and the meta would probably be sooooooo good…

It’s like I said. You want to do something and enhance something of which you have no idea off. But INSTEAD of asking the ones who are experts in it (who would LOVE to help for free! Dudes! high quality experts about the theme who would work for kittening free for you!) instead of that… they do it all alone. And fail miserably

(edited by Django.5923)

Do Devs play sPvP that much? If so..

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They ignore the request of the good players and listen to the casuals.

There are enough players who could fix pvp with just a little tweak of numbers, if given the chance.

Immob now stacks in duration...

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don’t let the immob control you. Control the immob!

Halloween pvp items drop from chests?

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Django.5923

last year it was possible

Is there any matchmaking in this game?

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Formula:

2 teams are playing atm. I match up those 2. done

Constructive criticism (or writing gas..)

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It’s almost how I imagined it. I thought they would buff some more ridiculous stuff and the meta would have other classes which are more OP but at least the meta would change!

Well.. xD

Guide for answering to players

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thank you lukin and kwll for your input. I will pass it on to the team, heads up!

Post patch class tiers and thoughts

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lol jae sorry you have no idea. Ele is NOT viable and soloqueue is nothing to measure viability of classes

"We knew Warriors would end up this way"

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Such a complex code can sometimes take 4 months to create

Constructive criticism (or writing gas..)

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They sadly don’t realize that they have to bring down everything than to buff everything into the clouds.. But as said, all constructive feedback is wasted and fades into the abyss of nothingness

Halloween pvp items drop from chests?

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i opened about 120 old chests and got a pumpkin dye. So who knows..

Constructive criticism (or writing gas..)

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that’s why the thread title also is “writing gas”. I know I wrote this for nothing.

But I still hope that if you point it out enough they will at some point at least crawl in the right direction.

Guide for answering to players

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1. First thank the OP for the constructive feedback and the post in general. Use a phrase like;
“Thank you for the constructie feedback and the post in general”.
Use his name if you want to stand out. (you may even give him or her a cute nickname to break the ice. Pumpkin, Sweetheart, Honey Bun and Poubelle are just some examples you could use.)

2. Whatever the OP said, say that you will pass it on to the team or that we have a similar discussion internally or both if you feel dandy. You may laugh as you write this, but not too loud. Constant laughing from every dev. could interfere with the workflow. So keep that in mind. maybe pass it on to the team.

3. If it’s concerning a new change, say that we need to give it a little while to see how the meta settles, because “it will take a while for people to catch on” (here you can point out the warrior and that we felt it would eventually rise up to become the class it is now, but that it wasn’t figured out by them and we expected him to do exactly what he does now)

4. Point out that sigil of paralysation is now fixed as often as possible.

5. Tame the wild players by telling them that soon whatever they ask for will soon come soon with the next patch which also will be coming soon. (you may laugh in a malicious pitch while typing this)

6. Tame them some more by pointing out how much we balanced stuff and that we don’t want to overdo it!

7. Explain that because of quality of life we don’t want players to download new clients all the time.

8. Congratulations! you just answered a thread successfully.

Constructive criticism (or writing gas..)

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Like Helseth said very well on his stream:

“There was a point where they just had to nerf Ele and Mesmer and EVERYTHING would have been viable”

Not exact words.. but it’s the truth

Constructive criticism (or writing gas..)

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Guardian

Fury trait may bring new builds (bunker/dmg hybrid maybe?). But guard still stays the same as ever.
- Rethink spiritweapons. Make them more supporty for the team.
- Since every build HAS to build around shouts. Think about transforming other skills in shouts. This would offer more real options.

Necromancer

I think I will get stoned for this, but I think necro is OK at the moment. The siphon stuff is interesting and offers more builds probably. But maybe it will make minion master aka spiritranger2.0 viable which would be very bad..
The survivability and mobility of a necro is not THAT high. He is has risks if you want to do more dmg. Which is good. Maybe he needs a little tweak in dmg numbers.

Mesmer

Interesting changes. But mantras probably cast too long to be used in teamfights. Again like engineer Mesmer would get more viable again if the other classes would be tuned down.
- Make the illusionary leap more like a thief port so that you can port in Z axis and overall more reliable. It’s a bad gap closer.

Thief

Thief is highly viable at the moment. But in my opinion in a very bad position. You are forced to play S/D (with the nerf to S/P due to sigil more than ever). D/P is somewhat viable, but you are by no means as effective as S/D and you will get trained down. Please stop trying to make condition thief work! It will never work! And when it does it will make the other condition classes obsolete because of the thieves high mobility and survive with dodges.
The survivability increase with dodges was good and a step in the right direction. Stealth is nothing on which you can rely in spvp (a good thief would never use refugee to save himself for example).
1 Boon remove instead of 2 is meh. It’s a good change, but it’s so random. You can’t choose which boon you steal. When you want to steal a boon your opponent probably has at least 3 boons.
- The amount of dodge is too high. Reduce the free dodge from the trait 15 in acrobatics
- Infiltrators strike is a free “get out of prison” card. You can never catch a good S/D thief due to it. So either reduce the dodge or the ports.
- Dont focus too much on the stealth (traits AND skills). And don’t focus on conditions. Give more options for power builds.
- Too make Main pistol viable it had to be similar to short bow. Number 3 with dagger and pistol should probably be an option for ranged AOE like cluster bomb , number 1 should not deal condis but be somewhat AOE like shortbow autoattack and overall powerdmg and number 2 should be an evade backward which could be used for mobility.

(edited by Django.5923)

Constructive criticism (or writing gas..)

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General changes

- AOE cap including dodge + block is a change who is really interesting. This probably takes out a little of the dmg and will be felt to some degree.
- QoL: Condition floaters, new ground targeting option, player over npc target priorisation, better trait facts, all GREAT and a step in the right direction.
- The bugfix on sigil of paralysation was great, but it was long due.
- immobilize stacks duration? wow cool —> change that back immediately. Do you even test internally?

So the general changes are great and address important problems, but not really address the problem of the meta.

- Make a debuff for Daze and Stun. 50% less stun duration if you got stunned a second ago.

The problem of the meta

We have too much high reward/no risk builds. The meta is focussed around Hardtargets. The team with more hardtargets probably wins, because you just train down the soft target of your opponent (and if they even have 2 softtargets they have 1 rezzer less..). That’s why the classes who don’t have the same surviveability as warrior/ranger/S/D-thief are not viable.

Warriors

The sigil bugfix (it was not a nerf!) was a huge drawback for warrior builds. But stun duration is still to high and the stun duration is not the main problem. The problem is the frequency a warrior can AOE stun / AOE Bowblast a point. Warriors will continue to dominate the meta

Warrior will continue being OP and teams will at least take one with them.
- reduce healing amount of healsignet slightly
- reduce adrenalin gain on F1 abilities SLIGHTLY. They’re used a little too often.
- NORMALIZE stun duration to 1 second. —> Erase sigil of paralsation
- Change condition duration reduce from 100% to 90% or something. So that the dmg from condition is near 0, but so that you can escape a stun chain by fearing or blinding at the right moment.
- Permaimmob with leg specialist? seriously remove immob stacking in duration

This would leave warrior at a good position in the meta while making other classes more viable.

Elementalist

He literary has no survivability in the current meta. The solution is not giving him more invulnerabilities but to give the elementalist more options to disengage. At the moment an elementalist who gets focussed dies. He is invulnerable, then he dies. He disengages, thief jumps after him, he dies. So ele needs more options to disengage and/or more passive survivability (possibility of more toughness i.e.). Staff changes and Conjure changes are ok. But I don’t see ele being a part of the meta due to this changes. The only solution to bring back dead classes is either to fix the ones who make them obsolete or to make them a counter to another overpowered class.
- Tune down elementalist burst dmg SLIGHTLY
- Give Focus a movement skill like RTL (like the fire roll on staff)
- Reduce cooldown of RTL again SLIGHTLY
- Give options in earth for more survivability (like warrior stances) -> change traits
- Give options on fire for more mobility/disengage (like acrobatics for thief, but not in that amount) --> change traits

These changes would make elementalist more viable while providing an option to trait something different than 30 in arcana.

Ranger

Healing spring change —> great. Ranger has less dodge, that’s good. But he has more protection (or more effective protection). That’s a change I understand tough. The big problems still remain. Spirits and passive play is too strong. The abilities of the spirits need nerf.
- take out the dmg from storm spirit, make a stun field instead.
- take out the dmg from earth spirit.
- normalize evade duration from evading skills to 1/4 second.

If the spirits where somewhat only a support, I think many ppl could live with it. The burst of the spirits with the lizard is just ridiculous at the moment. This would tune down spiritrangers immensely while still leaving them viable.

Engineer

Bomb change is BIG but of no use in this meta. Elixirs are nice now, but the are still elixirs. Turrets is just a failed mechanic. Only healing turret is useful (and rifle only for the tool belt ability). Engineer still is not viable in this meta, because warriors/necros/rangers still give you a too hard time and you just get trained down in teamfights. (bunker engi is somewhat viable)
- Bringing back the engineer is done by tuning down the other classes
- If you want useful turrets give all of them a passive effect (like healing turret). Make them “support machines” like spirits. Make traits so that they can follow you. Then MAYBE I will choose a turret over a kit.
- Hitting multiple targets with AoE will cause the new turret AI to break. Your turret will now spend time slowly turning between targets instead of shooting if you’re hitting more than one foe. Ridiculous xD

(edited by Django.5923)

Constructive criticism (or writing gas..)

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Posted by: Django.5923

Django.5923

we’re being put on the leash

First of all I have to say that I really like Anets work and love the game. The patch was great. But it was not the patch we needed at the moment.

The meta was in a bad state. It was for a long time. Stated as the worst meta ever. Too long since no change. Many teams quit, even the teams who where very loyal (most loyal and consistant = paradigm).

Why did they quit? Not only because the meta is just plain boring no skill cc/condi spam (like stated a 1000 times in the forum) or the class balance is not good or there are too less game modes (which all are a factor for the pvp and the game being not satisfacting).

But because: We feel betrayed! seriously. I’m patient, always have high hopes and get kicked in the balls every time.

I will speak about the patch later..

I really don’t get why you don’t listen to your playerbase. You guys don’t play pvp seriously (and that’s nothing bad), if you would, your changes would be different.
But you have a huge amount of experts (!) regarding pvp questions. People who play it every day and know the problems. And guys.. they even post in the forums! Literary EVERY fix or change needed was in the pvp forums for months. You just had to open your eyes. After 1 week ppl wrote what was bad, what needed changes. But what do you do is make always the same statement “thank you for your constructive feedback I will pass it on to the team” … and then we will laugh about it and do something different. That’s how we feel.. it makes people mad and angry, me included. Because we care about this game. Why write constructive feedback if it gets ignored anyway? (why write this thread?). Because I still care and I hope you guys actually respond with something that doesn’t just keeps us on the leash.

Most players hoped for this update to really balance things and bring another meta!

So if you want to make your playerbase more happy; Communicate! And interact! You need to show that you take us seriously. And you really should take players more seriously (not all.. but the about 300 players who have more insight then you in pvp!)
So:
- give us more insight on what you planed with TIMEFRAMES.
And please don’t talk about that you don’t want to give too much insight beforehand too avoid kittenstorms. You get MORE kittenstorms if you do it the current way. If you would “leak” your patchnotes beforehand you would have much feedback and could actually make changes BEFORE you patch.
- Listen to the huge amount of experts you have. There are so many players who could balance pvp to a good amount with just alittle tweak in numbers (like often stated).

(edited by Django.5923)

SPVP Stream compilation

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Posted by: Django.5923

Django.5923

thx i will update everything

BLU i will list you under others as well

SPVP Stream compilation

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Posted by: Django.5923

Django.5923

yeah i know that thread. But it’s really not up to date and many of the streams are not working/not being used, or have switched to another game.

So I’d wanted to make a list with actual GuildWars2 streamers which is up to date.

SPVP Stream compilation

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Posted by: Django.5923

Django.5923

changed it. I just took the names of the old thread

SPVP Stream compilation

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Django.5923

na or eu?

to all plz. Write which name you want , if you want to be put in multiclass or which class and eu or na

SPVP Stream compilation

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Posted by: Django.5923

Django.5923

(edited by Django.5923)

SPVP Stream compilation

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Posted by: Django.5923

Django.5923

Hey guys,

There was a thread called “spvp streams” where all the streams where listed. But the newest comment on it is 8 months old and more then half of the streams is offline because ppl quit or are just not streaming anymore (or not streaming GW2).
So I tought I open this again, because I really liked that list.
“If you want to be added to the list please post it here and I will add you. Thanks everyone!!!” + please also post if you’re quitting or offline forever.

(I listed all the streams from the old list with videos not more than 2 month old. If I missed you, plz just write here again.)

I will try to keep this list up to date. Quality over quantitiy!

NA (EU on page 2)

See who is streaming right now!

Multiclass Stream
http://www.twitch.tv/guildwars2pvptv – various players
http://www.twitch.tv/dtdhegemony -Hegemony
http://www.twitch.tv/oliverbrix – Brix
http://www.twitch.tv/parisalchuk – Parisalchuk
http://www.justin.tv/tundera – Tundera

Elementalist
http://www.twitch.tv/blinxpvp – Batmang
http://.twitch.tv/cmcgw2 – cmc

Engineer
http://www.twitch.tv/ostricheggs – Ostrich Eggs
http://www.twitch.tv/chaithh – Five Gauge
http://www.twitch.tv/ObiRx – Obi

Guardian
http://www.twitch.tv/legendarylukeee – Lily Rosethorn
http://www.twitch.tv/doyourbestbear – DoYourBestBear
http://www.twitch.tv/jaxsilven – Silven
http://www.twitch.tv/mademptygirl – Ishana

Mesmer
http://www.twitch.tv/hansawesome – Supcutie
http://www.twitch.tv/bringyourfriends – Countless

Necromancer
http://www.twitch.tv/giibbly – Gibbly

Ranger

Thief
http://www.twitch.tv/narcarsis – Caed
http://www.twitch.tv/loljumper – Jumper
http://www.twitch.tv/nosuchthingashalfwaycruuk – Cruuk
http://www.twitch.tv/jaafce – Titiublack
http://www.twitch.tv/00ace00 – Ace

Warrior
http://www.twitch.tv/tarcisanastasis – Anas Tarcis

(edited by Django.5923)

Tired of so Little Variety and Builds.

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Posted by: Django.5923

Django.5923

I see your point. It would be better to be able to pick what you need without question. But it wouldn’t increase build variety in huge amounts.

Think about it. Now build X needs trait 1,2,3,4,5 (maybe 1-3 are useless.. but it needs 4 and 5 and thus the other also). Then after free allocation build X needs other traits a,b,c,d,e which are better for the build. But it’s still the same amount of traits and you are still somehow forced to pick them.

I can imagine that variety would increase alittle. But I already see people crying because you have to take always those 9 traits if you play on condition dmg.

Don’t get me wrong. I would like to pick the best traits and I don’t think it would be something bad for a change. But I don’t see it as the solution to increase build variety.

In my opinion variety comes from better balancing. If they would allow free allocation of traits then they would need to balance all the traits first. Like you said too many useless ones.

I could imagine it (increased build variety) working if:

- Skills which are useless get to be useful
- Traits which are useless get to be useful
- Trait trees wouldnt’ force you in them just because of the attributes (power, precision..) —> separate attribut and traittrees
- Somewhat free allocation of traits. But in my opinion it would still need a minor, major etc. system somehow. Because if you put all the current traits in the same pool you would have to tune down the strong ones, tune up the bad ones so that they are all mediocre (and I like better traits or traits which are just strong like “elite” traits).

sPvP, balance, a little philosophy, and life.

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Posted by: Django.5923

Django.5923

Thank you Jon.

This is what we all waited for. You didn’t gave much information, but at least you gave a little detail, what you are planing.

In the past you (plural) mostly said that “we are working on it”, but then we didn’t saw something happening.. So people get frustrated and feel left alone.

You did it right this time and you really should continue this amount of communication.

Tired of so Little Variety and Builds.

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Django.5923

Traits are fine as they are.

In fact in Guild Wars 2 Build variety is almost the same as in Guild Wars 1.

C’mon now…

I know it sounds strange. But think about it.

Sure in Guild Wars 1 you could make many more builds. But if you looked at the meta and the builds which were really good and everyone played. There wasn’t very much more variety.
If you look at GvG every class had about 2 Builds with little tweaks in skills and runes.

I think a free allocation of traits would bring much more problems… Maybe a free allocation but still with Minor Major and Adept. So that people don’t only take XII traits.

Tired of so Little Variety and Builds.

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Django.5923

PS: free allocation of traits would only result in everyone picking the best traits and thus build variety would only increase if there are no “best” traits and they were really balanced! But this isn’t the case I suppose. So everyone would just pick the same traits probably.

I would like to see a separation of the attributes and the traits. So that I’m not forced into traits which I don’t like because my build needs more power.

So:

Separate Trait tree with traits. And then an attribute distribution system like in guild wars 1

Tired of so Little Variety and Builds.

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Posted by: Django.5923

Django.5923

Traits are fine as they are.

In fact in Guild Wars 2 Build variety is almost the same as in Guild Wars 1.

In Guild Wars 1 you had your auto attack and a few must have skills on every class. The “trait”-system was far minor. So you basically had those 8 skills, from which you had to take like 4 for every build. (for example rezz, apply poison and interrupts on ranger).
In Guild Wars 2 the skills which are “must haves” are already allocated in the Weapons (meaning in the weapon skills). I understand that decision and I think it’s a good one.

Then you have a heal skills and 3 utilities (+ an elite). Here is where the problem starts in my opinion.

From those 3 healskills with each class there is one that is the best. Then one that is usefull for “special”-builds and one that is just kitten.

If we talk about Utilities it’s the same. There are so many useless utilities, and there still lies huge potential in the game. For example:
- shouts on ranger
- Sigils on Elementalist and Conjure Weapons
- Turrets on Engineer (imo failed experiment. Dont deal enough support or dmg)
- Sigils, Spiritweapons on guardian (consecrations also not that usefull..)
Only to name a few.
If you really look at it seriously you have about 5-7 useful utilities per class if i overestimate.

Same goes with Elite skills (sadly). You could say that each class has one usefull Eliteskill (talking about spvp). Or just one that is best compared to others. It would be so interesting if every elite was as useful as others. (for example elixir and mortar are a joke compared to supply crate.)

So to enhance build variety it’s really a question of balance. I could also see that future updates could bring replacable weaponskills. For example if you take a Greatsword you have the autoatack and then not 4 set skills but a skillpool of 6 greatswordskills which you can use.

But everything is a question of balance here.

Mesmer and Ele upcoming buffs.

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Posted by: Django.5923

Django.5923

The worst they could do is leave the game as it is and create more overpowered classes.

Too make it short, they have to tune down the OP classes and buff the others ALITTLE:

1. Tune down S/D thieves which make Elementalist and Mesmer obsolete (main problem of these 2 classes, he is just better in every way). Remove perma evade from S/D thief. Could be done with reduction of evadetime of flanking strike and the minor trait in “acrobatics” where your endurance recharges faster gives so much extra evade. It should be turned down or removed, so that an S/D thief can be killed. Another or additional option would also be, that “Shadow Return” can’t be used while CCed (not only NOT being a stunbreak). So thieves would have to evade the CC rather than having a “break free from prison”-card.

2. Elementalist needs more sustain. Ele got nerved hard in the ele meta. They could reinitiate (to some degree) the surviveability and maybe reduce the cooldown of RTL alittle so that elementalist is a viable option rather than an S/D thief.
Elementalist has high potential in the fire and earth lines, they are almost unused, because ele needs about 60 points in defensive traits to be able to survive. So the fire and earth line should also provide more surviveability rather than dmg and condition dmg traits (or mobility).

3. Same with Mesmers. Mesmers were ridiculously strong and got tuned down a lot, while the other classes got buffed. You have to re initiate the pre-nerf state of Mesmer (to some degree!), so that it can be an option rather than an S/D thief. (more sustain)
With thief, elementalist and Mesmer I would prefer it, that S/D thief gets toned down and Elementalist and Mesmer get a slight buff.

Worst case scenario would be that they buff these 2 classes and leave the rest untouched.

So about this topic. I think it’s more a question of how to tune down the other classes rather than buffing mesmers and eles.

Helseth's rant of the week

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Posted by: Django.5923

Django.5923

NEW MAPS AND MODES
____________________________________

1. The Problem of Support, or playing alone isnt fun.

Since Guild Wars 2 lacks trinity (and I want to applaud you that you tried this experiment!) a big problem occurs:
“Everybody just plays for himself”. There is no real supporter. No real “helping your teammate”. In fights your teammates eventually die and all you can do is rezz them. That’s the support you have.
In Guild Wars 1 one of the most fun parts was the synergy between teammates. Guild Wars 2 doesn’t have this. It’s more of a “5 Players who play alone play besides each other and eventually rezz another”.
This also is a huge limit in game modes! And also the reason why I’m so bored of PvE.

A somewhat radical solution (which probably is unrealistic):

You should look at your experiment (no trinity) and accept that it’s a failure, because it limits the possibility of other game modes. You should abadon the concept and introduce a “protective”-cass (not a healer!). More like the “active prot” in guild wars 1. Since People have selfheal a real Healer is not that important. If you would introduce a “protter” which could safe people from heavy focus forcing the Opponents to switch targets you could make so many more Game modes (in PvP and in Pve!).

And read this thread and many others: People are bored of PvP because it doesn’t have enough game modes! So you need to create more. But you can’t really because you don’t have a supporter.


2. Deathmatch

Deathmatch doesn’t work because of the lack of support. A deathmatch with a protter-class would work tough. You could even make 8v8 again. I’m pretty sure it would be so much fun.

(I could imagine a Deathmatch with the current state of game with respawn and on-kill point system. But I doubt it would be fun).


3. Capture the flag , or relic run

Not possible also because the game lacks a supporter/healer/protter. With a supporting class this game mode would be viable! (don’t talk about spiritwatch please^^)
____________________________________
4. GvG like in GW1

Not possible, because you would just gank the guild lord due of lack of healer.
____________________________________
5. Other game modes?

In fact, without supporter no other game mode than capture points is possible. So let’s look at the maps. The solutions seem to be “secondary objectives”, which work like “additional” points.
I think what you do wrong is focusing too much on the secondary objectives.
The good maps are: temple, foefire, niflhel and khylo
failed: skyhammer, spiritwatch, capricorn
Why are the good maps good? In my opinion it’s not because the secondary objectives are better.
—> It is the position and in case of foefire the size which makes these maps interesting and forces other strategies.
The shift in Z axis of Khylo is just so cool and gives many possibilities.
Temple is cool because the distance of the points is so short.
Legacy is cool because the big point forces you to play differently.

—> I can’t really imagine many other maps with “capturepoints” mode. But when you think about other maps try to change; 1. Point size, 2. Point locations and distances, 3. Map Z-axis

Helseth's rant of the week

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Posted by: Django.5923

Django.5923

GENERAL PROBLEMS OF PVP
____________________________________

1. The reward and tourney System – Solutions for more PvP modes

In Guild Wars 1 your rank would get higher faster when you played better. In Guild Wars 2 you only have a time factor. More invested time = higher rank.
The solution would be, that you make progressive tourneys (like ha in GW1).
So make a rotation of Maps. Every team starts at the bottom and has to fight it’s way up. Team who wins gets reward chest. The more consecutive wins your team has, the higher the rewards get. The Team in the top map continues playing in it.
—> This tourney should not be rated and not have matchmaking. The good teams will meet on top.


2. Hot join – or getting more players to play pvp. -Solutions for more PvP modes

This may be my opinion, but I think hot join should be REMOVED from the game. The maps are created for 10 people not 16. 16 results in zerg and you don’t learn how to PvP. Hot join 5v5 doesn’t function, because you always have 4v5 and it’s frustrating.
Also a huge playerbase lies there and is also trapped in hot join, because it’s not possible to win in team ladder with a newbie hot join team (I suppose..)
—> Make “single tournament” the new hot join! Maybe also provide a consecutive win bonus like in point 1. for single tournament


3. Create GvG – Solutions for more PvP modes

A GvG mode wouldn’t be that hard to create;
I – Name the PvP maps “Guild halls”. They can be chosen when you create a guild for a little money.
II – Create a Guild based rating not a player based. Also create a Team based matchmaking. —> You can only play GvG when you represent your guild.

The thing about GvG is the feeling of achieving something as a Guild! I think with GvG available more PvE guilds would start to play pvp! With “playerladder” and not team based PvP you don’t get the feeling of a “team”.

Helseth's rant of the week

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Posted by: Django.5923

Django.5923


4. Warrior
The buff of warrior was good! It made warrior a viable class first time since the start of the game (my opinion). But 2 things are too strong.
- Mace stunlock is too long —> reduce from 3 seconds to 2.
- The 2 new traits build adrenaline too fast (so that you can alternate between spamming hammer-burst skill and longbow-burst skill). --> reduce adrenaline gain a little.
____________________________________
5. Engineer
Elixir-R – I understand the nerf. It was ridiculously strong and eliminated every other option, because of it’s strength. But now it’s needed more than ever! If you leave the stun-warriors etc. you need to give the “Stunbreak” back. Or give real good other options. (the other ones are not good enough..)
Many people stopped playing Engineer, because you can’t really win 1v1 anymore (Against necro, warrior and ranger you have a really hard time..).


6. Spiritranger
The big problem of the Spiritranger is, that he is an equally good bunker and 1v1 class than a beastmaster and also provides a massive bonus in dmg and support in midfights (which the beastmaster didn’t. So you had to choose —> strong 1v1 class or good teamfighter).
- Tune down spirit boni. once every 15 seconds. The 70% chance is a joke, because it always proccs. Just let it proc.
- Spiritcooldown after spirits are dead
- Natures renewal should only be able to rezz once.
____________________________________
7. Necromancer
The problem in my opinion in this meta is not the necromancer per se. It’s him with the other classes combined. He should die a little faster in my opinion so that he has to think if he wants more sustain or more dmg.

Helseth's rant of the week

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Posted by: Django.5923

Django.5923

I agree with signorina Murdock. Feedback should not only be bragging and pointing out what’s wrong, but should also provide solutions. I will try to give constructive feedback here.

CLASS BALANCE IN PVP

Why the current meta isn’t fun:
This meta is the worst because many players are forced into different classes. It has always been that players have to play something else. But when top teams are forced to change 3+ classes in their comp it’s alarming. And not fun!
Mesmer and Elementalist are of no use in this meta (if you don’t agree you did not play the meta!). Mesmer and Ele just get trained! They have the use of “being rezzed” in this current meta. Why do you think does Phantaram play Necro and Xeph Thief? Because if one of them plays his real class they get focused (and eventually die) resulting in a loss for their team (and because the other classes are just better in every way..)
____________________________________
1. S/D-Thief;
Not only is he ridiculously OP, but he also makes Mesmer and Elementalist obsolete. The Problem is, that the perma evade makes the thief a “hard-target” (unlike the backstab thief). In fact every current metaposition is a hardtarget (maybe the necro a semi-kittene). The Problem is, that these classes which are hardtargets do their job better then Mesmer and Elementalist could (S/D thief has more mobility, survivability, sustain, DoT, ele has more singletarget burst tough). Mesmer and Elementalist aren’t hard targets, when they want to provide the same amount of dmg an S/D thief delivers. An Elementalist in the current meta dies instantly, forcing his team to rezz all the time (rezzing with soft targets also a problem). Same goes with the Mesmer. Backstab was strong, but not OP. If he missed his Backstab a good Ele would always own him. He had high dmg, but not that much sustain, that’s why other dmg dealers were an option (slightly less dmg, but more sustain).
So I see 2 Solutions here;
I – The problem of the S/D Thieves are the many evades. Flanking Strike is OK, maybe reduce the time of evade on it. The minor trait in “acrobatics” where your endurance recharges faster gives so much extra evade. It should be turned down or removed, so that an S/D thief can be killed. Another or additional Option would also be, that “Shadow Return” can’t be used while CCed (not only NOT being a stunbreak). So thieves would have to evade the CC rather than having a “break free from prison”-card.
II – The “not so good”-variant. I would prefer you use both (tuning down S/D and this one). The other option would be to give Mesmer and Elementalist more sustain, so that it doesn’t only result in rezzing and they are similar in sustain to a S/D thief.
____________________________________
2. Elementalist
As said above. He needs more sustain if you want to leave necro like it is at the moment (which would be OK I think.). The mistake you made here is that you nerved Ele hard (and good at that time) after the Elementalist-Meta, then buffed the other classes and still left Elementalist in his weak position. So a few ideas:
I Give elementalist a little more mobility again (so that he can compete with an S/D thief) —> Reduce the cooldown of RTL again
II Change the "dodgeroll --> healing" trait again, so that you can dodge a few times and get healed (more heal is needed in this meta).
III Provide defensive traits in the “Fire-line” and change the Focus skills, so that it can be used. Maybe a little condition hate? (on focus rather condition hate, than Projectile hate)
____________________________________
3. Same with Mesmers. Mesmers were ridiculously strong and got tuned down a lot, while the other classes got buffed. You have to re initiate the pre-nerf state of Mesmer, so that it can be an option rather than an S/D thief. (more sustain)
With thief, elementalist and Mesmer I would prefer it, that S/D thief gets toned down and Elementalist and Mesmer get a slight buff.

(edited by Django.5923)