Guild Wars 2

Ascii.9726:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Doesn’t this cause the same problem that’s already there, just with Staff instead of Minions?

There changed to optional traits, not forcing you to choose them because you want the perks of staff in the Death Magic tree and I’m not sure about you but the only reason i go into the Death Magic tree is for staff masteries and the 25 point.

There still there for Minion Masters to choose.

I’m not sure you get it. The problem with the minor traits right now is that they only really work for one kind of build (using minions). What you propose is bad because it does the same thing (only works for using staff). You may like it more, but it still creates the same problem, just with a different culprit.

aspirine.6852:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

The main issue is because Dhuumfire is a high-damage cover condition on a necro. Condtidion necros without counting Dhuumfire typically apply bleeding, poison, weakness, cripple, chill, and torment in their standard play, and that’s before counting the Fear to lock our target out of most condition cleanses.

Dhuumfire is hated because it is high damage that doesn’t actually matter much to the necro, but prevents cleansing of the far more dangerous bleed stack. The necro spent no time at all in adding Burning and, given its short duration, doesn’t really care if it gets removed.

High damage? I have no idea what you are talking about. There is nothing high about it.

For a cover condition, it is very high damage. Nobody that uses Dhuumfire uses it as their exclusive damaging condition. It’s a free 2k damage (full duration) every time it procs that covers the far more powerful bleed stack (which is probably 1.5k/second)

Ascii.9726:

• Reainimator changed to Adept trait with Staff Mastery taking its spot @ 5.
• Protection of the Horde changed to Master trait with Greater Marks taking its spot @ 15.

Doesn’t this cause the same problem that’s already there, just with Staff instead of Minions?

Given the large discussion about traits recently, I figured it would be a good idea to at least get an ideas thread going for ways to improve our terrible traits. I am, however, going to make a few guidelines.

1. Must be reasonable
2. Must keep a variant on the original functionality.

For example, my first suggestion is Siphoned Power. I would suggest changing it to the following:

“Gain might for 5 seconds when struck below a Health Threshold.
75%: 1 stack
50%: 2 stacks
25%: 4 stacks”

While the upper limit seems high, in an average 1v1 scenario, it would usually average out to around 3-5 stacks of might, which is a nice boost, but not anything overwhelming. However, when below 25% health, it can jump up to an extremely noticeable 16-20 stacks of might. What this allows is for a necromancer with the trait to choose to go for a high-risk, high-reward situation when low on health. He can either heal up and play defensively to prolong his life, or he can go balls-to-the-walls aggressive and tear into his opponent before they can finish him off. Skilled use of Death Shroud and balancing heals can turn this trait into a monster, but misplaced use of either gets you killed or no longer benefiting. It is self-balanced that to get that kind of buff, you are purposefully getting hit when you are close to dying.

Roe.3679:

Karpalo.5148:

Case in point.

All the answers you listed are something you would typically only see in a direct damage build, apart from the flesh golem, which you don’t typically see at all plague being the mandatory elite skill even for the power builds.

Oh no, you may have to adapt your build slightly? The horror!

Haven’t most Necros in spvp been saying that the only reason we were so OP was because no one changed their spec to deal with conditions? And now taking one different utility to deal with what will surely be a rare and specific build is too much to consider?

Again, life blast. Problem solved.

Condition cleansing is a soft counter to condition builds and there, it was a case of “you always had the tools to counter the tools we always had, you just chose not to use them” In the case of condition clears, the conditions still did SOMETHING before getting removed. Diamond Skin is a new tool to specifically hard-counter condition necros (as they have very little direct damage).

In the case of immunity, it’s “Nice try. I think I’ll auto-attack you because you can’t do jack to me.” Elementalists may not take much to drop below 90% health, but given the sheer amount of sustain they have, keeping them there will be extremely difficult when you, at most, get 3 bleeds on them before they heal back up (and probably cleansed the bleeds in the process).

The main issue is because Dhuumfire is a high-damage cover condition on a necro. Condtidion necros without counting Dhuumfire typically apply bleeding, poison, weakness, cripple, chill, and torment in their standard play, and that’s before counting the Fear to lock our target out of most condition cleanses.

Dhuumfire is hated because it is high damage that doesn’t actually matter much to the necro, but prevents cleansing of the far more dangerous bleed stack. The necro spent no time at all in adding Burning and, given its short duration, doesn’t really care if it gets removed.

Bhawb.7408:

Immunity is in League of Legends, I think we can consider league of a legends a somewhat successful game, and many immunities in that game are perfectly healthy.

But none of those immunities are passive. They all require an activation and have a definite (and short, usually) duration.

This is why I don’t have an issue with Invulnerability skills, Defy Pain, or Berserker’s Stance, but I do have issues with Automated Response System and now Diamond Skin. If they required the use of a skill, or were a short duration proc upon hitting a certain trigger, they would be fine in concept (duration details and what the immunity actually is are required to say if it’s fine in practice).

Permanent immunity when fulfilling condition X is not fine.

Linguistically Inept.6583:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

So, when necros only method of stopping a combo is a Fear that can’t affect you, how exactly is that balanced?

only… as if you cant dodge or sponge the hits with DS?

Doesn’t stop the combo at all, just mitigates a portion of it. Fear actually stops it and gives us an opportunity to respond.

Mattmatt.4962:

Ahah, come here just too see!

Do you necro feel what “FEAR” is ? XD
It’s so funny to see half necro beiing afraid of something even more when there is no reason XD
So thank you to this half-unbrained population of necro for this topic, very funny for elementalist ^^

And gl gl to others nerco wich probably play this class because they love it and not because its currently OP, you deserve it!

(ele posting if you did’nt understand :p)

So, when necros only method of stopping a combo is a Fear that can’t affect you, how exactly is that balanced?

This trait is just badly designed. It counters condition necros hard, but it ONLY counters condition necros.

Nemesis.8593:

Thedenofsin.7340:

Hi Jon!

Thanks for posting. I see where you guys are coming from. However, I’m still scratching my head on that Signet of Spite change.

Can you provide some insight?

I released a new TPvP build that uses it, and as i heard… it spread…

Like an epidemic? :p

Jon, the biggest problem with Dhuumfire is that it is easy coverage of the bleed stack that you mentioned is hard to remove. Dhuumfire is a high-damage cover condition. By keeping Dhuumfire as-is, or even making the trait more accessible, you are actually reinforcing the problem. If you wish to keep the trait, then it needs to be changed to a condition already in the necro’s rotation. That would make cleansing condition stacks more effective.

Shinigami.8975:

How about something similar to GW1 Parasitic bond ? When someone dies you get a small amount of Hp, or life force, this way it keeps the thematic of Soul Reaping, but don’t create a useless pet that can’t live long enough to even reach anyone or anything… Please please please

Because we already have that in the trait Parasitic Bond? And deaths give us life force anyway?

Nike.2631:

Oldbugga.7029:

It also amazes me that other classes actually have dialog on their abilities and direction ….compare that to their communication on the necro!!!

Just chill. He got to Engineers after that and still has over a month to make the rounds to all classes. There’s six still waiting, it’s not like Necros got singled out.

Four. He got to Guardians and Mesmers.

Given he’s going alphabetical order, we’re next.

30 Curses, Rabid weapons, amulet, rings, and backpiece should be plenty, really. I run Rabid Asceneded jewelry (trinkets are Dire/Rabid)/backpiece and Exotic weapons with Dire armor and enjoy a 37% crit chance pre-Fury. Never had a problem.

Gilburt.9146:

JonPeters.5630:

Cleansing Wave
This is the one I am most on the fence about of all of the elementalist changes. It is a borderline master level trait and I think a better solution would be to leave it at adept tier and instead of moving Soothing Wave (which is only moving because it is better to have a 100% worthless trait at adept tier rather than master tier) we would redesign Soothing Wave into something worthy of master level.

…

Arcana
I see the logic in not wanting the two changes in this line to counter each other. Moving good adept traits to master level is contrary to reducing the need to spec into this line. That being said, Elemental Attunement is just a beast of a trait and could honestly be compared with most grandmaster traits. I think a good compromise would be to place Renewing Stamina back in the adept tier

…

[emphasis added]

Yes! Yes! This is perfect! You took the words out of my mouth! I would have absolutely no grievances with the coming Elementalist changes if this is what happens! Redesigning bad traits to be good instead of shifting them around in a manner that hinders access to the good traits is what needs to be done!

Don’t limit this thought process to Elementalists. All classes have worthless traits.

Necromancers do have some grounds for complaint there as they do lack any form of damage avoidance (no Vigor, no endurance refills, no Evade skills, no blocks, no invulnerability), but outside of PvE bosses and WvW surprise zergs, this really isn’t a problem as death shroud can soak a lot of punishment. It’s kind of fun when your defense is “Be a MAN!”

Guardians have no grounds for complaint, as they have everything but Evade skills. Warriors do have everything (GS3 evades).

Thief damage avoidance is getting nerfed because it really was out of hand. I have gone entire fights against thieves with only landing 5 attacks or less as a tanky as hell necro. When they weren’t Evading, they were stelathed and vice-versa. There is a video on Youtube of a thief getting at least 13 dodges in a row between the shortbow, Roll for Initiative, Withdraw, and Feline Grace (plus Vigor). If the thief is completely untouchable for 15 seconds by anything at all, even if he is blowing all of his cooldowns for it, it’s too much.

Bloodthirst never worked with Locust Swarm. Do you mean Deadly Feast?

Arvid.3829:

shimmerless.4560:

Clearly an autoattack whose bleed application has had to be nerfed twice…

Well, that just proves how much you know…

Considering Scepter auto has never been nerfed…

Having just finished a slew of dungeon running with a MM build, I can confidently say that since the HP buff (and damage buff via Vampiric master), minions are actually pretty good in dungeons now.

In Fractals, people prefer a condition necro to a power necro because of the awesome power of Epidemic. In addition, the bosses there are not simple “Stack and DPS” fights, so the short build-up is not really a detriment when compared to the fact a condition necro can keep moving and keep up his DPS. The only time in Fractals where it is better to have a Power necro are on two bosses: Ice Elemental/Powersuit in Dredge fractal (a fractal many people skip if possible because of its length) and the ice elemental in Snowblind fractal.

In other dungeons, the speed difference isn’t noticeable unless you are trying to do organized speed runs. For everything else, the only time it makes a difference is if there are more condition builds in the group.

So I greatly disagree with “no support other than vulnerability”. Fears, Weakness, Blinds, and occasionally poison are all good support necros bring into dungeon environments as well. The main problem with necro support in dungeons is that, other than Aetherpath, boon and condition play just aren’t important enough.

Last I checked, the majority of necros were either Condition (thus running Scepter/Dagger, Staff and Weakening Shroud) or Minion Master (thus running Death nova). This is even more true in PvP.

So yeah, power necros lose out on support. Condition necros don’t.

Ryan.8367:

Andele.1306:

Ryan.8367:

the necro class is so lucky that their op bullkitten got overshadowed by warrior’s op bullkitten or else you guys would have seen much more needed nerfs yet the condition spam is still encouraged obviously by anet ..i really cannot wait for this kittening burst condition/tank condition spam meta to be over with. it’s so kittening digusting.

Or you just need to learn to play.

what does learning to play have to do with this game being plagued with condition spam?

i think you fail to realize im not JUST talking about necros here, it extends into engis / spirit rangers, necros and now bunker regen condi warriors as well. necromancers just have the most access to it. its a kittening stupid meta overall and promotes very low skill gameplay.

No, it just promotes Warrior play. The Condition-heavy meta means you can’t just go all-out burst anymore and expect to do well, you have to put in some defensive measures as well (namely cleanses) and be smart about when you use them.

Necros are quite spoiled on that front because of Consume Conditions and Plague Signet, both of which are total cleanses, so we don’t have to worry about how many different conditions are on us in the same way (we still need to keep track, just for different reasons).

I love how the mass weakness that necros can cause easily isn’t “defensive support”.

This trait really only makes 0/0/30/20/20 eles difficult for condition necros as they will have the heals to keep bouncing back above 90%, most of which cure conditions at the same time.

And the “reanimating” necros actually don’t give a crap about this trait because minions are all about direct damage.

I wonder if it would break us for Vital Persistence to simply negate natural life force degen? Damage taken, of course, would still drain it.

transtemporal.2158:

Necros are impossible to kill? That’s interesting. You really must tell me how you survive 3v1 sometime.

Sorry, I thought you were being serious. Buffing DS by 1000% would make us virtually unkillable.

How to survive a 3v1? Tainted Shackles and run the heck away, dropping Spectral Wall after the immobilize wears off. That’s about it. If that doesn’t work, well, sucks to be you.

Or run to water. A necro can handle a 3v1 in the water pretty well.

Bhawb.7408:

It’ll be nice in WvW’s larger gameplay, and it’ll be nice for general PvE stuff. My problem with it is it’ll still be useless in PvP, and it’ll still be mostly useless in any small-scale fighting (WvW and PvE boss fights without adds).

Well, unless you’re running MM, there will no longer be a reason to go into death magic for PvP, I think?

Bhawb.7408:

Reanimator has a built in cap, people don’t realize it because its near impossible to keep that many up. Its 5.

And no, Reanimator will still be bad. Less bad, because they are finally fixing one of its issues, but they are fixing the smaller of its two biggest issues, which is that it will still not trigger when you actually need it in the majority of difficult encounters. It just means you’ll get a few more of them from trash mobs.

I did not know of this cap. I know there isn’t a cap on the number of jagged horrors you can have, because I’ve had over ten via Lich Form (can cast Mark of Horror twice) and Reanimator.

Still, five minions for free in WvW will actually be nice. Especially when you’re sitting on an arrow cart.

On the Reanimator change, I think you might change your mind about it being so bad when you can get a small horde from just that trait. I can already get three up at a time often in PvE after the health buff and I am really noticing a difference in effectiveness (because I actually pay attention to it instead of whine). Getting six of the buggers up without healing them or using a skill slot is actually a pretty big deal, since that’s as many minions as you can get from filling your bar with minion skills.

Well, I’m sure that with that, Eles will replace necros on PvP teams, given that necros can’t finish off engineers and won’t realistically be able to touch Eles without help. Sure, you could run power necro, but then why isn’t the team bringing a thief/warrior?

When will they learn that outright condition immunity is just a bad idea? I like the Guardian’s Purging Flames skill or the Warrior’s Dogged March trait: it reduces the effectiveness of conditions without negating them outright.

Well, guess I go dagger/warhorn and scepter/dagger. I guess that can work.

JonathanSharp.7094:

Berullos.6928:

The mark of blood change is another 33% nerf to our damage with staff. Just like it was a nerf with scepter. I don’t understand their reasoning for these nerfs. Its like they want to kill the builds that dont utilize fear or dhuumfire for condi damage. And because of these nerfs that dont favor builds who dont run those traits, it actually emphasizes and supports going for those traits in order to remain viable.

Things they could’ve done to fix it. Fix fear damage scaling. Or make dhuumfire proc poison or torment. And lower torment stacks. And if you nerf the damage with weakening shroud procs or mark of blood at least give us sustain like all necros want.

Currently the sustain is still bad as we require being near things in order to gain life force. IE: I need to hit you with marks or my attacks in order to gain life force. A smart player can already just engage disengage until you run out of life force and then kill you as you cant build the life force without somthing to hit.

People still get away from necros plenty easy if you wanted us to be hard to get away from. And siphons don’t work in shroud which is a major downside. Healing still doesnt work while in shroud either. And scaling for siphons is a joke.

The strongest builds currently are still going to be dhuumfire even after the nerf and fearmancers. And builds that don’t use those are basically nerfed harder than those specific builds.

Thanks for the feedback. A lot of times, when running standard Necro condie builds, the bleeds actually do a large portion of your damage if they are allowed to stack on a target. Burning is nice, and Torment can be decent, and of course Poison brings down opposing heals. But the Bleeds are where a large amount of the sustained damage comes from.

We want to bring down that raw dmg but still allow the Necro the ability to “shut down” targets. Notice we’re not bringing down Chills much, or Vulns, or Blinds. We don’t mind the Necro shutting targets down, we just don’t want them also doing a ton of condition damage on top if it.

For Dhumfire and Terror: we have plans on reworks for those down the road, but they won’t make it in for this patch. We have plans for those, but they’re a little further down the “balance” road.

Thanks for the feedback!

Double post, but this seems to be a good sign. I disagree with what Jon is saying, but at least they’re starting to acknowledge where the problem actually is.

Ten gold that they’ll resolve the “Dhuumfire+Terror” issue by nerfing Terror and leaving Dhuumfire alone.

transtemporal.2158:

Terok.7315:

Just remove dumbfire already…

“We are hearing everything you guys are saying and after careful consideration, we’ve decided to remove Dhummfire. Also, we really want to enhance the necromancer’s ability to be a tank, so we’ve increased Deathshroud by 1000% and reduced dmg across the board!!!”

Thanks for being an idiot. We don’t want to be impossible to kill. What we want is to not be overly reliant on a single trait because everything else has been getting nerfed to compensate for it. Removing Dhuumfire would promote build diversity, because as it currently functions, it simply cannot be balanced.

I already made a post with several numbered reasons in that thread about why Dhuumfire should be changed to Torment instead of Burning to help balance necro condition damage (on the first page, even). No direct response to it, but at least we know the devs are reading that thread specifically, so they will see it.

JonPeters.5630:

Necromancer:
_For the necromancer, we felt that a few traits and skills were too powerful, while others were lacking in efficacy. We brought down some of the raw DPS conditions that necromancer enjoys, while also maintaining their pressure and sustain elements. The necromancer’s mobility will remain where it is currently, as we want the Necromancers to be focused on sustaining themselves through death shroud, siphoning health, and slowing down their opponent’s ability to act.

Perhaps the place where the efforts should be focused is on the Dhuumfire trait, rather than removing a bleed stack here and there. Given the introduction of this trait was what pushed necros into the overbearing condition burst they are now, it seems the logical place to focus balancing efforts.

Rather than get rid of the trait, changing it to inflict Torment instead of Burning would have many positive effects.

1. 4 stacks of Torment is roughly the same damage as Burning if the target is moving. However, unlike Burning, Torment stacks can be adjusted in intensity without affecting far more than just the troublesome trait. If the damage remains too high, reducing it to 3 stacks of Torment is quite doable.

2. Torment is already in the condition necromancer’s burst rotation/arsenal. As such, adding more stacks will not make a negative difference on cleansing potential of condition removal skills against a necromancer’s burst. In fact, by removing burning, you improve the capability of other classes to cleanse the damaging conditions as one fewer slot is being taken up.

3. Torment already has built-in counterplay to mitigate the damage output. Even if cleansing the stacks is impractical in a situation, not moving at least limits the damage received.

4. In the PvE environment, Dhuumfire is close to a useless trait as any foes where the extra damage is really desired will usually already be burning, usually from Guardians and Elementalists that cause it as a side-effect. This would allow condition necromancers to contribute more in PvE, which is currently their weakest area.

5. If the necromancer and a burning user are both targeting the same opponent in PvP or WvW, the total damage output will be increased. However, the counterplay will be exactly the same. This is a good thing, actually, as a single foe being targeted by multiple opponents should have a significantly harder time surviving. In a PvP environment, however, you either have a 2v2 with one player getting focused by his opponents, or you have a 2v1 and one person free to capture points or create a different 2v1 elsewhere.

6. Many Necromancer players have been asking for better access to Torment. At the same time, many are displeased with the introduction of Burning. This change would satisfy both complaints.

I believe this would prove more effective at reigning in condition necro damage than removing bleed stacks off of skills. Having one more axis of adjustment, reducing required cleanses, and using something with built-in counterplay for the “burst” damage will all improve the situation.

Nay of the Ether.8913:

Well I guess that settles it then, I won’t be using staff anymore either. There’s no point anymore. If I can’t cleanse the condis off my allies then it’s no longer a support weapon (and don’t try to tout the measley regen as “support” because there’s far more efficient ways to do that). Good thing I planned for this in advance and already have alternatives builds available. I guess it’s a good thing though, I sure won’t be wasting anymore traits on staff and it will free up possibilities for new builds.

I wouldn’t use it myself, except there’s no better option for WvW sieges.

On the PvP front, Necros are now on pretty much every competitive team due to their massive pressure damage that they provide which can easily overwhelm someone that screws up against a condition necro. Minion Masters are also viable in PvP.

In WvW, the major strength of a necro is in AoE presence. Then again, that’s the nature of WvW. AoE will always do better than single target. Minions are pretty much useless there outside of a MM zerg (which are devestating).

In PvE, we’re getting better with new boss mechaincs. Necros are still probably the least desired class in dungeons, but the newer content actually means a necro’s strengths in boon and condition manipulation are useful.

The main reason people are asking for melee weapons is actually that it IS in theme with the Guild Wars necro. Necromancers in Guild Wars are adherents of Aggression magic. They don’t hide in the back lines and hope nobody notices them, they are in the front lines or mid lines, using their superior durability to thrive where other clothies die horribly.

Lorelei.3918:

Quickening Thirst is specifically meant for dagger/well necros. It lets you run a extra well, which is nice since well of power and well of darkness are great skills.

But taking Quickening Thirst means you didn’t take Ritual Mastery. Any well build would take 20% reduced cooldowns over moving faster if you are wielding one weapon set.

I still think you are wrong that those “everything goes perfect” situations are what the devs are balancing around. If they were, Epidemic would have been nerfed to the ground long ago (as the potential damage on that skill is probably in the millions).

Even assuming you had five enemies that just stood there and let you pull off your entire burst on them, you’re still healing for less than what you calculated simply because a necro cannot have 100% crit chance outside of death shroud where they can’t be healed anyway.

On top of that, if you pull off a tactic, ANY tactic, in the absolute perfect situation, it should have huge rewards. That’s why it’s the absolute perfect situation.

Again, even assuming being in melee range with five enemies that aren’t dodging, that kind of healing isn’t enough to outpace the damage of five enemies, not even close.

Rainshine.5493:

If I am building your standard condi necro (I have never done a condi build on my ele so I want to swith things up … and yes I know the limitations in PvE events) would my necro benefit more from the toxic focusing crystal, stones or …?

Depends on how much duration you already have, how cleanse-heavy of an environment you’re in, and what your gear/traits is.

Yes, you steal that much life (assuming everything crits, which it won’t) over a 5 second period. That’s it. That’s still less than a single skill that heals (but is not the main healing skill). Heck, even dagger 2 heals for more than that and deals more damage. What you are advocating is that everything must be kept low because if we blow everything we’ve got, we get something decent spread over a 5 second period.

You are taking about blowing three skills simultaneously with a lowest cooldown of 25 seconds. for that kind of healing. We can already get close to that with just dagger 2 and no life siphoning traits and deal about the same damage. For blowing at least 3 long cooldowns, an investment of 30 trait points, and having five idiotic enemies that stand still right next to you? You had better get something real nice out of that situation. What I’m seeing is a Cleansing Wave minus the condition clears and adding a bit of damage.

Ant what non-well AoE do we have that can even proc vampiric more than once? Life Transfer, which can’t heal us?

Bhawb, I don’t believe even those situations are problems. It relies on the necro blowing everything they have to get some semi-decent health back (it actually isn’t that much compared to the incoming damage during that same time). There, people aren’t concerned at all about the siphoning the necro is doing, they’re concerned about all the damage they’re taking.

What they need to do is to make siphoning numbers actually meaningful sustain against a single target. It will auto-scale then with multiple targets to be a useful amount and maybe help remove some of the necro’s ridiculous weakness to multiple opponents.

Zoltreez.6435:

here is what ALL necro players expect and want:

Unlimited Dark Power !!!!!!!!!

No, we just want our sustain, which is one of the things we need to be strong if we’re supposed to be an attrition class, to actually be worth something.

ManaCraft.5630:

Also known as the reason why minions will never be viable in WvW.

The bird is the word.

Pretty sure the reason is mass AoE spam. I think I’ve seen one mesmer using Moa in WvW since launch. Maybe a couple more, but I can still count the total on one hand.

Well, that’s intriguing. Tough call if I want Bursting or Earth paired with it, then.

RedSpectrum.1975:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

The point with Immobilize is that even if they stealth, you still know where they are and can keep stabbing them.

You would need to immobilize them while in stealth somehow, due to the condi meta, most of us run cleanse on stealth, so when we enter stealth we cure any condition, and an additional after 3 seconds. So im not sure immobilizing is going to be the real bane here, especially since he is a dagger necro, he still needs to walk up to the thief after which they would most likely cloak and dagger to :cleanse the immobilize, set up for a huge crit and gain a bit of health back.
If they run D/P then he doesn’t even need to get close they’ll cleanse right then and there. I personally think Well of darkness sets you up in safe territory to fight. Or a minion mancer but OP rolls dagger main hand so that wont cut it.

Not at all. Locust Swarm provides plenty of cover for immobilize and Barbed Precision usually means that there’s a bleed that gets removed first.

1. start casting Locust Swarm.
2. if the thief is dodging, let him. Otherwise, pop Rigor Mortis.
3. after immobilize lands, Fear or Daze him, then chain immobilize, running up to the thief as you do so (if necessary).
4. Slash away at the thief’s position. He’ll be dead before the immobilize wears off or very close to it. Even if he stealths, all that gets removes is cripple which gets reapplied twice before another condition gets removed.

And how exactly does dagger/dagger thief blind?

The point with Immobilize is that even if they stealth, you still know where they are and can keep stabbing them.

tattoohead.3217:

Chuck Zitto.2367:

We have a guild in our wvw that is mostly necro minion builds. They honestly melt tower gates near as fast as 2 rams.

What server/guild that sounds like fun and atm I can’t find any guilds on dragonbrand that do this.

Don’t even think about leaving :p

I know Maguuma did a MM zerg at one point. Ran from spawn to capturing Stonemist (admittedly, unupgraded gates) using no siege in less than 4:30.

On Raid on the Capricorn, why would a necro EVER leave the water? They are the best thing you could ask for to guard that point.

Point. I forgot Dhuumfire. I never use it.