Although the Dev team has stated they are aware of this bug, additional confirmation is welcome.
Necromancer specific bug: Sometimes on leaving Death Shroud, the necro is locked out of skills 6-10 for 1-2.5 seconds. Occurs frequently in both PvE and WvW. I cannot personally confirm it in PvP.
(Necromancer bug)
To observe that bug you have to do as following: Equip in a utility slot signet of spite. Use it on a mob, then get out of combat. Change the utility skill next to the signet (right or left), and watch the skill you just changed have the same cooldown as your signet of spite. From testing this happens only with signet of spite cooldown.
Happens with any utility skill on any profession, actually. It may just be most reproducible with Signet of Spite in your experience. Frequently noticed with Signet of Undeath for me, but I have seen it on all professions.
you add nothing but negativity to the threads you post in (and the occasional factoid). I have seen you apologize once today already for being a kitten to someone.
Pot, meet kettle. I’m sure you’ll get along fine.
It’s been bugging me on my Charr lately as well. The visual radius depends on your character model size, but the effect radius is actually only as big as a well. It can get difficult to tell if I should be blinding someone or not.
I’m thinking you’re missing a decimal point there, Bhawb.
Yeah, about the only thing I’ve seen linking Rytlock and Pyre is that they’re both blood legion.
I’d like to see what simply removing the ICD would do to it. Still not helpful in many boss fights, but in any other area, it would be good. May be a bit too strong in WvW, though. A necro on an arrow cart would quickly become functionally immune to AoE damage.
Earth on Scepter.
I like using two daggers, one to stack 25 Corruption, and one to switch to bursting (which is +6%, not +6). Makes good times.
I used Sigil of Bursting on my Scepter and my damage went from 90 – 93, that isn’t 6% but it was a little increase I guess.
It’s a 6% increase of your Condition Damage stat, not of the damage you deal with conditions.
Have you considered 2* Lyssa, 4* Nightmare? This gets you the same +20% fear duration, but also gives +20% to all of your other conditions. You also get a bit more crit chance at the cost of some (100) condition damage, which is easily made up for by the all-around condition duration boost.
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I chose Well of Power for the stunbreak since it’s on a 20 second shorter (traited) cooldown than spectral armor and has fun with the condition-heavy meta. Well of Corruption is for boon stripping over damage (though the damage is still decent). It really isn’t a huge deal to swap that out, especially since stability doesn’t stop immobilize.
Even so, all the CC is on skills that well bombers usually have anyway (no elite really does better for them than Fleshie to my knowledge, and they usually run dagger/warhorn for one weapon set), so what’s confusing me is your comments about increasing CC so much. Only real change I notice is the Bone Fiend, but that immobilize is too easy to land to not use.
Other than the runes, I’m not really seeing the difference between a standard well-bombing build that runs Bone Fiend and this one, though. Yes, Well of Suffering is substituted for Well of Power, but having a stunbreak is always a good thing in PvP. Could you elaborate, perhaps?
Obviously, not all the CC will be used at once. The daze, both fears, and Fleshie’s knockdown are held in reserve and thedagger’s immobilize is on a 20 second recharge (will usually be used more than once per fight if they survive the first chain)
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And with the bleeds and cripple covering the immobilize, cleanisng it should require either specific (such as Roll for Initiative) cleanses or total cleanses in most situations.
Well, anyone have theoretical improvements, since it seems people really haven’t tried the build?
Pretty sure the inherent reason to stay at range is that most dangerous foes are melee and condition necros are really good at kiting.
So yeah, most of the time, you want an Earth sigil anyway.
So I feel bad. Although I’ve been playing around the ruins a lot, it was just last night I realized the 75 giant pearls in my bank were now worthless.
geomancy > earth, if you can make use of it at all:
-geomancy is 21 bleeding ticks per weapon swap (10 sec)
-earth is 20 bleeding tick in those 10 seconds, assuming it proc instantly after the ICD which is highly unlikely
and that is not even taking multiple targets into account :>If conditionmancer was more viable in dungeons, I’d use two identical sets of scepter/dagger, both with geomancy&battle and swap weapons on cooldown. Given the current state of necro pve it’s not worth the investment and hassle :/
The suggestion of Geomancy also does not take into account that condition necros are usually not in melee range. If you’re not in melee range, the Geomancy sigil is worthless. Sigil of Earth works the same regardless of range.
I’ve noticed there seems to be a proximity factor on Bone Minions and Flesh Golem. The ranged minions and Shadow Fiend don’t have this issue (though I always have Shadow Fiend engage with Haunt). If they’re standing around stupidly, get closer to your target.
I’m definitely fine with necros becoming a high risk/high reward class. We already have the risk, since we have virtually no damage avoidance and can’t disengage. Once we start a fight, we’re committed to it. We do see it through to its end, whatever that end may be.
I just don’t feel we are rewarded enough for it. We don’t really need anything more on the damage front, just on the actual attrition aspect. We take a lot to burst down, but we can’t recover from burst at all (unlike, say, a thief that pops Hide in Shadows and is back at full health before he comes out of stealth or a guardian that literally takes four people to bring down because of the mitigation and healing).
Even if we don’t get stability, necros need the ability to take the CC, and then say “Thank you, may I have another?” Then smack around that mace-wielder for their insolence.
Alternatively, we need to have sustain that is strong enough that CC chaining is basically the only way to get a necro down without being a huge hassle (dodge/block tanking would work too).
It all depends on if ANet wants necros to be the Cho’Gaths or Aatrox’s. I’d be happy with either, really.
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Yup. Pretty good breakdown of the reasons, thanks.
I may have missed it in the arguments, but may I ask your reasoning behind Vampiric Precision and not Mark of Evasion? I would think the regen you get would make up for the loss in health stealing (in addition to being another AoE attack you can use in Plague), but I could be mistaken.
3.3 seconds on the daze, and +50% condition duration for everything else. Not really a minion build, but between Locust Swarm and Flesh Golem, the target should be perma-crippled (to cover the immobilize).
I see potential in the build (why I posted it), but I don’t know how well it would work in practice. Also, I’m undecided on staff/dagger sigils. Considering Frailty just for another cover condition (vulnerability), but I’m thinking Force or Blood would just be better.
I imagine that a weakness of the build would be thieves, since they have two skills that explicitly remove immobilize (though one is rarely used because Hide in Shadows is nuts) and because shadowsteps ignore immobilize. On the other hand, it should be easy enough to bait the snare-breakers, and Dark Path is in the rotation specifically to deal with teleports and such.
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Carrion, Rampagers, or Celestial are probably the best stat setups for an all-around necro staff where you want to use it in any given build. Pick whichever one you like.
I was wondering if anyone had looked into lockdown builds since the patch and how effective they are. The biggest buff I see is the fact Immobilize now stacks duration, and necros have surprisingly good access to Immobilize.
I was thinking about running this build: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fQAQNBIhZakRrVPTzTjePBMpI7xhesLuOHp44lB-TkAg0CnIISRkjIDRyisFNRA
General tactics would be to start with bone fiend’s immobilize, since that has very little tell and is unlikely to be dodged. Follow it up with Dark Pact, death shroud, tainted shackles, dark path. Then sit behind them auto-attacking with dagger until it wears off. Locust Swarm should be going as well throughout this (and with a 15 second duration, why not?)
The pulsing cripple and bleeds on crits should work to cover the immobilize, as would the chill and torment.
This is just the ideal situation I can think of. Anyone think this could work well? Anyone tried something similar?
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Don’t you get it guys? Nobody expects a pistol hidden in the grip of a pistol!
Yeah, ANet’s probably not going to fix this anytime soon. It doesn’t affect gameplay at all and really, it’s not that noticeable due to the brief timeframe.
Yeah, I would have expected that to be the case as well, but this result isn’t too surprising. Not like that .15 seconds would be noticed that often. Thanks for testing it.
I assume that 6 Runes of the Mesmer would likewise come out with a total duration of 3.66 seconds, rather than 4 seconds. Unless, of course, those still have the rounding oddity. That can be tested with just the runes, though.
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Since the last patch changed both the Banshee’s Wail trait and the Sigil of Paralyzation, has anyone tested to see what the duration of Wail of Doom’s daze is if you have both? We know that alone, they are 3 seconds and 2.3 seconds respectively, but does Banshee’s Wail change the base duration, or just add to it?
In other words, has anyone tested to see if the daze duration, with both, is 3.3 or 3.45 seconds? I imagine it would require fraps or similar software for a definitive answer.
^
You do realize that the final damage number is the total damage of the skill added up, and not a “tick” number right?
I mean, the damage per tick isn’t increasing every time, it’s just adding up the damage from the previous ticks.
Did not realize that…thanks for clarifying that. Bah, back to the drawing board!
Their tooltip is a bit misleading then…imo. The dmg is listed as 9xx (x9) Yet, when you land your first hit, it is never 9xx dmg…
Help me to understand what is going on there.
It’s showing that the skill hits for that much damage in total, but it hits 9 times. I agree, it isn’t very clear.
@Bhawb: While that range sounds about right, how did you actually test that?
Main counterpoint to that ele situation is that the necro used one skill only while the ele put at least three skills on cooldown.
In pure Rabid, Undead is better than Scavenging, no question.
As an important note, charr is the only way for necros to get a dodge skill. I very rarely run hidden pistol, but it has saved me so much trouble when I do.
It’s possible that you see a lot more necros than you recognize, but mistake them for mesmers or eles. Only definite ways to tell someone is a necro running around (not activating skills) is if they have the minions out or are glowing green/shrouded in black.
Weakness got buffed so it now applies against all hits, not just non-crits.
Terror got a 17% damage nerf shortly after we got Dhuumfire.
Dhuumfire is not really worthwhile in large scale WvW, because you have no control over who it goes on and the cooldown is not per-target.
Instead of healing and more healing, we get healing, condition cleansing, and retaliation.
Lol no.
Well of Blood is only useful for retaliation.
Show me a necromancer whirl skill and then I agree that wob is good for condi cleanse.
You forget projectile finishers? I guess so. Bone Fiend is really good at this, since its attacks are two finishers at once.
Water fields are very good at what they do, but it is ONLY healing. I like the versatility Well of Blood being a Light field provides.
1. Well of Blood heals for more than any other healing skill in the game over its full duration.
2. Back in beta, Well of Blood was a water field.
Even so, I personally prefer it as a light field. It gives a bit more flexibility. Instead of healing and more healing, we get healing, condition cleansing, and retaliation.
Just ran a lone bone minion against a Moa in EB with Flesh of the Master. Took 8-9k damage before dying. Doesn’t look like the health buff applies there.
Its a bit more than 5 times. And yeah its fairly strong. Im not entirely sure its worth the cast time though. It doesnt crit and its no where near as strong as fiery rush and bear form.
still procs minion siphon on each of the three dozen or so tics, which now will add lots of damage.
Yes, Sic’em shuts down all Shadow Arts minors and some Majors for 4 seconds. No, I don’t see this as bad design, I see it as a counter. I agree that it could have been implemented better, however.
No, bad design is on Necromancers where their class mechanic shuts down their own trait line. A Necro cannot be healed in death shroud, so when the traits are all about health stealing and getting regeneration, well, you get the picture.
I just figured I’d pop into the thief forums to see what was being talked about with the various buffs. I’m amused you are all whining about nerfs.
WTF? you call 2 buff various buff? ONLY 2 BUFF: Venomus Aura and Blinding Powder, 2 tweeks: Body Shot and Lotus Poison, end the rest are only nerf or bug corrections.
So, I guess Roll For Initiative/ Withdraw should be restored to not moving you if you were immobilized, because that was better? Lotus Poison should go back to the global cooldown (this is very much a buff, as all similar traits are global cooldown)? Smoke Bomb should go back to not being a finisher? Well, I guess if you don’t like those buffs…
The only nerfs thieves got was in Larcenous Strike and Shadow Trap. Body Shot was indeed a tweak (not really better or worse, just different).
@Shinjo: Yes, it is better and more controllable (though you can’t control when the regen boon pops up or when other people try to heal you), but that doesn’t make it any less bad design. I agree that Sic’Em’s buff could have been better implemented, but I still call this blown way out of proportion. If a thief can’t survive those four extra seconds, I’m not going to shed a tear for their demise. They got out-played.
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So are MM necros finally truly shining then?
If so, great, now I shall start my necro!
(also what do MM ones focus on, power or crit?)
I’m focusing on condition damage, actually. Probably going to swap back away from minions because I miss epidemic, but they are great fun!
Yes, Sic’em shuts down all Shadow Arts minors and some Majors for 4 seconds. No, I don’t see this as bad design, I see it as a counter. I agree that it could have been implemented better, however.
No, bad design is on Necromancers where their class mechanic shuts down their own trait line. A Necro cannot be healed in death shroud, so when the traits are all about health stealing and getting regeneration, well, you get the picture.
I just figured I’d pop into the thief forums to see what was being talked about with the various buffs. I’m amused you are all whining about nerfs.
Sad thing is, if a stealthed (or new) enemy did hit you, the flesh golem WOULD actually be right on it.
Yeah, the health buff on them makes the trait better, since having 2 out isn’t a luck thing anymore. I’m willing to bet seeing 3 won’t be too uncommon either. It’s a swingy trait, to be sure, but any improvement to minions in general also improves it.
Still only a PvE/WvW trait, though.
minions are still garbage, so there’s no change at all
After running MM for a week pre-patch, I can tell you right now that minion master roaming before was just dumb. People had no idea what to do against me. and I was able to just walk out of situations that really shouldn’t have been survivable. With more durable minions that deal more damage (though heal you less), I see this as being even more effective.
And I already noticed a nerf to having weapon sets with different vitality stats. If you had 100% before the patch and switched weapons it stayed at 100%. Now you always lose some when you switch to the weapon with less vitality and back.
Actually, that’s been in the game since release. I’ve been running rabid scepter/dagger and a shaman’s staff for ages. I’m quite familiar with how changing vitality affects your life force.
You didn’t properly read my post.
I’ve been using carrion+rampager for a very long time. Before the patch you would lose life force only if the vitality weapon set wasn’t at 100% but still higher than on your non-vitality set. If both sets were at 100% you didn’t lose anything, now you do.
Imo a weird change… why would you “take damage” by swapping weapons anyway?
And I’m telling you that you are wrong. When I was at 100% on my staff, swapped to scepter/dagger, and swapped back, I was no longer at 100%, despite not zoning, entering death shroud, or doing anything that would cause me to lose life force. If I was at 100% on scepter/dagger and swapped to Staff, I was no longer at 100%.
The reason why is because the UI and skills all referenced a % of our max life force, the actual value was a number (which we can finally see).
Assuming X<Y:
1. Vitality set max life force = Y
2. current life force = Y/Y
3. swap to non-vitality set, max life force is X
4. current life force = Y/X. Game sets it to X/X so that maximum is observed.
5. Swap back to Vitality set, max life force is Y.
6. Life Force is now X/Y.
Although we can’t go back to the pre-patch state, I can guarantee you this is exactly how it worked.
Confirmation on Reanimator no longer having an ICD? If true, minion masters (and heck, the trait in general) just got awesome.
Movement speed caps out at +25%, with the exception of swiftness, which is 33%. And Swiftness also doesn’t stack with other movement speed buffs.
No, movement speed buffs and reductions do not stack. Only the largest applies. There is a massive difference.
Well, how #4 interacts with #4 is rather pointless to discuss, since you can’t have 4 of each rune on. As for how the #2’s interact, I don’t know. Not going to blow money on them to find out either (and sadly, scavenger runes aren’t available in PvP)
And I already noticed a nerf to having weapon sets with different vitality stats. If you had 100% before the patch and switched weapons it stayed at 100%. Now you always lose some when you switch to the weapon with less vitality and back.
Actually, that’s been in the game since release. I’ve been running rabid scepter/dagger and a shaman’s staff for ages. I’m quite familiar with how changing vitality affects your life force.