Siren’s Call ends on an enemy bounce, so Illusionary Elasticity only adds an ally bounce. In other words, Illusionary Elasticity doesn’t affect Siren’s call much. This is the case for all bouncing attacks able to bounce to allies except Winds of Chaos, which ends on an ally bounce.
That may be justification for not making Illusionary Elasticity affect Staff Clones, maybe.
Doing that will simply make one Mesmer able to upkeep 20 bleeds on a target. FINALLY decent Condition damage on par with direct damage. But useless if they do so without upping the bleed cap.
Actually, mesmers can maintain 20+ bleed currently with enough precision. But more would be better.
If you’re very lucky with WoC, maintain loads of Duelists, and/or sacrifice CondDmg for Precision perhaps. Exceptional/sub-optimal builds aside you won’t be able to maintain that many Bleeding stacks.
It’s not really a drastic change if they do “fix” this (assuming it is a bug): Staff Clones are about 33% of a condition Mesmer’s DPS, so this would add another 33% more. With the state of Mesmer condition damage (ineffective against any profession that has half-decent condition cleansing) it would be a welcome buff.
(edited by Embolism.8106)
I suggested that Protected Mantras should give you 1s Protection every second while channelling, but having a unikittenfect for each Mantra sounds better.
Recharging stacks sounds good, but may cause people to not use the last stack so the Mantra will keep recharging instead of going into CD. Instead, perhaps using the first charge of a Mantra will immediately start the CD internally. Currently you feel forced to use all the charges at once the start the CD quickly, particularly with Mantra of Recovery and Mantra of Pain.
My problem with Mantra of Pain is I don’t really see a use for it in a condition build … only in power builds. That irks me.
Almost all skills are like that. It would however be nice if Mantra of Pain inflicts Confusion… its direct damage is low even in a Berserker build anyway.
It’s damage isn’t low for a berserker build. Especially when you can spam 3 instantly when traited. I know because I run it in my build and the damage is never something I thought needed to be changed.
It deals about 1800 critical damage under a Berserker build, which isn’t that high compared to the kind of burst you could get from other skills.
I’m not saying it needs to be buffed, but I do think it can have Confusion added without making it OP.
it’s a bit more than that, you can see from its base damage that it has similar damage to a max distance gs autoattack or mindstab, which range from 2k-3k.
the problem of using it for extra burst damage is for it to be worth it, you have to be in full GC gear, and you cant get away with not using decoy and blink in full GC unless you want to die alot.
you can slot it as a third utility, but that leaves you with 0 condition removal.
I actually use Mantra of Pain regularly as part of a PvP Berserker build, the damage is ~1800 when it crits. Note that this is per charge, so you get two or three shots of this.
In my build though I don’t use it for burst, I use it first and foremost for Restorative Mantras. Spamming it gives you excellent survivability despite being a Berserker build, and still dish out decent damage through Phantasms and any attack you can squeeze through Power Spiking.
My problem with Mantra of Pain is I don’t really see a use for it in a condition build … only in power builds. That irks me.
Almost all skills are like that. It would however be nice if Mantra of Pain inflicts Confusion… its direct damage is low even in a Berserker build anyway.
It’s damage isn’t low for a berserker build. Especially when you can spam 3 instantly when traited. I know because I run it in my build and the damage is never something I thought needed to be changed.
It deals about 1800 critical damage under a Berserker build, which isn’t that high compared to the kind of burst you could get from other skills.
I’m not saying it needs to be buffed, but I do think it can have Confusion added without making it OP.
My problem with Mantra of Pain is I don’t really see a use for it in a condition build … only in power builds. That irks me.
Almost all skills are like that. It would however be nice if Mantra of Pain inflicts Confusion… its direct damage is low even in a Berserker build anyway.
Also, to the “they have no boons” argument… You can easily trait for protection on gaining regeneration.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Phantasmal_Healing
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Illusionary_MembraneIf you want to participate in this debate you should at least have a decent knowledge of the profession being discussed. Illusionary Membrane is on a 15s CD and the Protection procced is very short.
Considering I linked them, I believe you are completely off thinking I don’t know how they work. The fact I was pointing out to all the Mesmer’s crying rivers is that the “No boons” argument is stupid and unjustified as you have boons.
If you want to try and call people out, you should be more intelligent about who you pick. As you have failed horribly here.
Alright. Explain to me how 3s Protection on a 15s CD which a Mesmer cannot reliably trigger when they need it helps.
If you can’t then my point stands.
If a trait like restorative mantras will become overpowered with 3/4 of a second shaved off the cast time then it is probably already overpowered and should be looked at.
The problem is Mantra of Pain. Because it basically has no CD, reducing Mantra channel time affects it much, much more than it does other Mantras.
A random boon is hardly something to write home about, and that effect is on a 10s CD too anyway.
Phira and Wads pointed out my number one frustration with Mantras. I think the channel time is short enough already, any shorter and Restorative Mantras will become overpowered.
Please tell me those two buttons to win in a class that needs to use 80% of its cooldowns to even harm someone?
I don’t know which button you have binded, but I think they are F1 and 2.
If that’s all a Mesmer needs to down you, I think you need to re-evaluate your own play.
I play from Australia and I can’t say I’ve ever noticed a delay.
The main problem IMO is its bounce logic: it only ever bounces to allies. If it alternates between bouncing to allies and enemies like WoC, Mirror Blade and Siren’s Call then it should be fine. And reduce its CD to something more reasonable, like say 25s.
Also, to the “they have no boons” argument… You can easily trait for protection on gaining regeneration.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Phantasmal_Healing
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Illusionary_Membrane
If you want to participate in this debate you should at least have a decent knowledge of the profession being discussed. Illusionary Membrane is on a 15s CD and the Protection procced is very short.
I don’t have a fancy mouse and only made minor changes to the default.
W: forward
A: strafe left
S: back
D: strafe right
V: dodge
Tab: weapon swap
1: weapon 1
2: weapon 2
3: weapon 3
4: weapon 4
5: weapon 5
Q: heal
E: utility 1
R: utility 2
F: utility 3
Caps Lock: elite
F1: profession 1
F2: profession 2
F3: profession 3
F4: profession 4
`: interact (revive/execute)
correctly timing it on a multi-hit attack, dishing A LOT of damage
Confusion procs per ability activation, not per hit. A multi-hit attack will trigger Confusion once only.
It’s not something like a bleed that you randomly throw in order to deal damage. It’s something that, used at the right time, is far more powerful than a bleed (and absolutely devastating with the old numbers).
So you’re saying Confusion requires more “skill” to use.
Instead of parroting the Wiki (which is very often wrong), test it yourself. In any case it’s not important, functionally it is identical to stealth.
I’m at work, otherwise I would. No need to be rude.
Apologies, I did not mean any offense. I am a bit tired however of the amount of false information on the Wiki.
There really is no such thing as a dedicated Torch Mesmer, because the Torch is exclusively a support weapon; mainly because of the quality of its Phantasm (as we all know).
IMO it only has a place in condition builds, because the only viable weapon for condition builds is the Staff so what you use other than the Staff is not as important DPS-wise. For Power builds you’re almost always better off using an OH with a much stronger Phantasm.
The wiki says “Gain stealth and summon an illusion to attack your foe.”, doesn’t indicate there should be anything else with a different name…
Instead of parroting the Wiki (which is very often wrong), test it yourself. In any case it’s not important, functionally it is identical to stealth.
I think he means that using Decoy grants you the buff “Decoy” instead of the buff “Stealth” that you get with all other Mesmer and Thief stealth skills. As far as I can tell they function the same.
I apologies for the lateness of updating the build thread I’m dealing with some very serious real life problems and so I will have to postpone working on the list (Sorry for the inconvenience!)
Don’t apologise, this is just a game. Real life is far more important.
Change the 20 in chaos to domination/dueling and you have a build similar to the one outlined in Pyro’s overpowered 1v1 build (and swap some weapons). Towards the end of that thread I tried adding healing mantras but felt it lacking. I felt my escape mechanisms, defensive abilities and the extra utility slot were better options than standing around casting MoP for a 2.6k heal.
Considering my job as a 10/30/0/25/5 was to drop people fast and be able to escape if required, I didn’t know what sacrificing damage for immobile sustainability was going to achieve. It goes even further that way by taking points out of dom/duel and into chaos. Kavia’s question is a great one – what role is this supposed to play? There are far better bunker options, better nuke options, and better mobility options. Or are we talking wvw?
The way I see it there is offensive play (kill stuff) and defensive play (either facetank like a bunker guard or escape/get range), the heal on mantra isn’t powerful enough to allow you to facetank, and I always found the best defensive option was simply to use our amazing retreat options to back off rather than try to heal through it using hps equivalent to a bunker warrior’s dps.
The misconception here is that you think you’re supposed to facetank with this. You’re not. You’re supposed to use your array of defensive skills to avoid damage. The point is, with your evasion and superior healing, you’re unkillable. 2600 HP every 4 – 5 seconds is no joke, and your MoR also provides a huge amount of healing. And remember, this is with no Healing Power investment apart from Inspiration: you’re using Berserker stats for this.
And yes, offensively this build is more Phantasm than anything else; so in that regard the “loss” of DPS from charging Mantras ~60% of the time is quite minor.
(I’d like to point out however that the generic Phantasm build has been around since Beta, so I don’t see why people call it Pyro’s build).
(edited by Embolism.8106)
I think any build that takes the mantra heal but doesn’t use a rune set with an on-heal effect is missing its full potential. Lyssa would be pretty good, but so would Dwayna, Flock, Grenth, etc.
I think portal would be better than decoy – more team utility and can provide the same purpose as Decoy (port out, charge mantras, port back) just with longer cooldown (but used smartly can virtually guarantee survival).
Question that comes to my mind with this build is what role is it supposed to play?
Bunker? Not sure it would hold out long in 2v1 scenario enough to justify bringing over a BM ranger, guardian, or engy.
DPS roamer? Would not be very moble, doesn’t do enough damage to efficiently finish fights.
Backpoint defender? Its based around being at range and has too much stealth such that you’d have hard time keeping a point from getting neutral.
The reason this build does not use Runes like Dwayna is because the extra Precision from Eagle (or any alternative Precision Rune) is important for augmenting your DPS. Your survivability is already very high, extra survivability won’t contribute too much.
Besides, most on-Heal effects are on a 10s CD. Mantra of Recovery isn’t going to proc it three times if that’s what you’re thinking.
If you run this build in a tournament you would be using IoL, Portal and Time Warp, so no stealth. I have played this build as a tournament build and stealth is really supplementary, you do fine without it.
I think people generally underestimate the survivability of the build, as well as its DPS (which, given the base stats are Berserker, is not bad at all; it mainly lacks Mind Wrack burst).
Charging your dmg mantra lowers your overall damage output. Thus it is better used as a spike, as the name suggests, to help drop a target.. with that in mind the heal of mantra cast is less useful.
I can’t imagine wanting to trade one of our amazing utility slots for a relatively weak on demand extra bit of burst.
You’re missing the point. The key here is Restorative Mantras.
By basically using Mantra of Pain on cooldown, the amount of healing you get is huge. Despite using Berserker stats, this build can facetank a lot of damage: of course it’s best if you use your skills to evade damage, but what damage does go through is easily healed away.
Mantra of Pain is not burst. It is sustained healing and DPS. It’s 1500 – 3000 damage and 2600 healing every 4 or 5 seconds. Plus you have Phantasms and Clones out that deal damage regardless of what you are doing, and you can use skills while using Power Spike for conjuring Phantasms or dishing out extra damage.
(edited by Embolism.8106)
1. Is a very good point, I feel that this build needs more offensive power: it’s already very strong defensively. I am not so convinced with 2. and 3., +10% CondDuration is a fraction of a second for most conditions and seems unlikely to benefit iWarlock, and iDefender is really, really good. I’d bring Portal for team play but that’s about it.
Spear Clones now use the full chain, so presumably they do use Evasive Strike.
And Trident Clones need to be nerfed.
You can just use Decoy before charging Mantras. Blink might get you out of a bad situation but it won’t protect you from say an interrupt.
Decoy doesn’t protect you from an interrupt either. Alot interrupts are aoes, which decoy doesn’t prevent. On contrary, you have to use it before charging.
PhaseRetreat and Blink can be used while charging (and I tought decoy, too) and therefore are better for preventing interrupts.And for Menders Purity (condition removal on heal), I don’t think it triggers on (healing) mantra charging.
[ Edit ]
you forgot to mention that Restorative Mantras can heal illusions and NPCs, too. But in a “group” fight it’s too crippled by the 5 entities limitation
Come now. You know very well that a lot of interrupts require a target, and even those that do not have to guess where you are if you are stealthed. Decoy is just plain better than Blink at preventing Interrupts, the only benefit to Blink is it can get you out of Immobilises and Knockdowns; but you got Phase Retreat for that. Pressing Decoy before charging a Mantra is hardly rocket science.
I’m pretty sure Mender’s Purity does cleanse conditions on charge, as that counts as a heal too (for all other purposes like on-heal Runes).
Being able to AoE heal is nothing to sniff at, limitation or no. Be aware that I think in terms of PvP, not WvW (at least, not zergfests or sieges or other WvW specific stuff), when it comes to builds.
(edited by Embolism.8106)
this i very good for one on one but has no capabilty or prospect of killing 2 or more people at the same time :S
If you are in a group vs group situation spamming Mantra of Pain (also Mantra of Recovery) will also heal your allies, plus the Staff in general is pretty good at buffing allies.
When Decoy interrupts mantra charging, better use blink.
And personally, I don’t get 20 points into chaos for staff reduction. Deceptive evasion is enough for me.
And the “toughness on mantra charge” is weak. Far reaching manipulations of phantasmal fury might be the better choice.
You can just use Decoy before charging Mantras. Blink might get you out of a bad situation but it won’t protect you from say an interrupt.
Staff CD Reduction allows you to use your very important defensive skills much more frequently, plus lower CD for iWarlock. Deceptive Evasion doesn’t help at all with charging Mantras and you don’t need increased Clone generation anyhow as you won’t Shatter much.
Protected Mantras is +200 Toughness, and since you’d be charging Mantras constantly you’d enjoy the bonus most of the time.
I was procrastinating theorycrafting in the Mists today and decided to have another look at Mantra builds. This is what I came up with:
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And you know what? It’s surprisingly effective.
Basically, the idea is to be constantly charging and discharging Mantra of Pain, receiving constant healing from Restorative Mantras and dealing decent damage with Power Spike. The moment Mantra of Pain is off CD (which is basically immediately), start charging it again.
In general, you should stick to the Staff, conjuring iWarlock or spamming WoC while Power Spiking for more damage; and using Chaos Storm, Phase Retreat and Chaos Armour to protect you while you’re charging Mantra of Pain (the latter two can be used while charging without interrupting it).
If you’re starting to feel the pressure, use Decoy before charging (do not use it while charging, it will interrupt it) and conjure iDefender while Power Spiking. Use Power Return for cleansing conditions and supplementary healing. Mass Invisibility is useful when both Mantra of Recovery and Pain are uncharged, and you need some time to charge them both.
When on the Sceptre-Pistol, use Magic Bullet (before, not during) to cover charging, and use iDuelist, Confusing Images or Ether Bolt when Power Spiking. While possibly stronger offensively than the Staff, this set lacks the Staff’s powerful defensive skills, so be prepared to switch back to the Staff if things get dicey.
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QUESTIONS
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What are the pros and cons to using this build?
While this looks like a Berserker build on the surface, it doesn’t play like one: it feels more like a Bunker. With healing from Restorative Mantras and Mantra of Recovery, plus the Staff’s powerful defensive skills, you’re very hard to kill. On the other hand, you don’t hit as hard as a Berserker should; although the damage from Phantasms, Power Spike and Clone conditions is pretty substantial sustained damage. Mind Wrack can of course be used to finish your opponent off.
I guess that doesn’t directly answer the question, so pros: very tough, cons: not bursty. Hey, I’m new to it too.
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Isn’t this build really, really vulnerable to interrupts?
It is, but what I’ve found is that even playing against builds with very frequent interrupts, this build can still prevail. Stealth, Distortion, Chaos Storm and Phase Retreat are invaluable at protecting you from interrupts while charging.
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Why Staff and Sceptre? Aren’t they condition damage weapons? Why not use GS and/or Sword for a Power build?
While you’d likely get more damage out of the GS, the Staff is used for its powerful defensive abilities, 2 of which can be used while charging Mantras. These are invaluable for protecting you while you’re vulnerable. The iWarlock is also a powerful Phantasm with a very short CD, and Staff Clones deal a nice bit of damage through conditions too.
The reason the Sceptre is used over the Sword is because with this build you’d generally want to stay at a range, and while the Sceptre is relatively weak it can at least deal damage while you’re Power Spiking.
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What about Shattering? Do you use Shatter skills with this build?
I do, but situationally. The most important Shatter is of course Distortion, making you invulnerable and guaranteeing you will finish charging a Mantra. Mind Wrack is used mainly to finish off opponents.
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What if I’m up against a condition build?
Personally, I’d switch out iDefender for Mantra of Resolve. While Mantra of Recovery cures 3 conditions with Mender’s Purity, that won’t be enough if your opponent is a condition build. iDisenchanter may also be a good choice, particularly if your opponent is boon-happy.
(edited by Embolism.8106)
I think that the attack speed of land Clones could do with a slight buff, and I’d really like to see Scepter Clones use the entire chain; modified to not conjure Clones on Ether Clone. Underwater Clones IIRC all attack at the same speed (or close to the same speed) as the Mesmer, which as said is quite OP for the Trident.
The only counter to a phantasm Mesmer in a 1v1 is another phantasm Mesmer.
Since you’re assuming a 1v1 scenario, that allows for specific counter utilities. If I’m going against a condition heavy class, I will take the heal mantra for rapid condition removal through mender’s purity as well as the condition removal mantra. Between the 2 of those, you can remove about 8 conditions every 20 seconds, which is far more than enough to deal with any condition class.
The Phantasm Mesmers I face have minimal or no condition removal at all, which is why I am so surprised: I’d like to think I’m not that hopeless.
If I had to “justify” it I’d say it’s because of the Mesmer’s inherent evasiveness compounded with Mesmer Condition’s very slow ramp-up, which allows their Phantasms to kill you before you kill them with conditions. The same slow ramp-up also makes killing low HP but relatively spammable Phantasms highly inefficient.
Generally speaking, you need to post this in the suggestions forums if you ever want a dev to see it.
And your claim is based on…?
Seriously, the Devs won’t look at a thread unless it’s been on the boards long enough (or garnered enough outraged replies in a short amount of time). Posting such threads in the profession forums makes more sense as people who visit these forums are much more likely to be interested than random players in the Suggestion forums.
Err, but the people you want to interest is the devs, not random players. That said, I never said not to post it in the mesmer forums. Simply that, if you want your suggestion to reach dev ears, put it in the suggestions forum. Given THAT, in the past I’ve posted an idea it’s appropriate forum for discussion and also posted it in the suggestions forum, and linked the two.
As to the basis of my claim? Forum moderators have, in the past, suggested players post their suggestions in the suggestion forum. They’ve also appropriately moved threads there. All that aside, Anet does take suggestions from the suggestions forum. That’s their intention for the forum. Of course you’d have to take that on it’s face. I don’t have to.
My point is that player support is a prerequisite for Dev attention, and a thread like this is highly unlikely to get player support in the Suggestions forum.
Besides, this is more of a bug fix thread, and given we have a bug fix sticky here (which sadly isn’t up to date) it seems like the Devs want them here.
Nope.
Conditions have one stat feeding them. Other attacks have 3. If you want to introduce a way for conditions to resist being removed you’ll need to introduce another stat so they can’t just collect vitality, toughness, and condition damage.
They’re easily removed because they’re easily applied. They require a single stat because the class needs the toughness and vitality to reapply the conditions and drop the target(s). Wouldn’t be fair if the damage was as high as it is, as reliable as it is, and still allowed you to avoid watering down your stats.
Conditions technically have two stats feeding them: Condition Damage and Condition Duration, and many professions have ways to inflict conditions on Critical Hit, so for those professions Precision also feeds into Conditions. That makes it three stats.
Besides, what stats you can invest in is largely limited by what stat distributions Anet has made available to us, and AFAIK there is no stat distribution that uses Condition Damage, Vitality and Toughness.
I haven’t faced Phantasm Mesmers for a long time (they were rather uncommon before custom servers allowed proper dueling arenas), and was surprised to find that my Condition Mesmer is stomped by most Phantasm Mesmers. Before most Mesmers I faced were Shatter Mesmers, and they’re usually very vulnerable to Condition Mesmers.
It may be that I am not used to it yet and simply have to adapt, perhaps by timing Distortion to Phantasm burst or something. Unfortunately killing Phantasms is rather difficult with a Condition Mesmer.
Having said that, frequently 40% of players in a dueling server will be Phantasm Mesmers, which I think is rather telling.
To be honest I think Ether Clone should be removed, as in it should inflict Confusion and not create a Clone. When Shatter builds want Clone generation they look to Deceptive Evasion, Ether Clone is too slow and too clumsy to be of much use; and if it isn’t fulfilling its purpose then why not remove it in favour of something that would fulfill a purpose: that of a MH condition damage weapon.
The reason that ether clone would not be removed is every weapon set is supposed to have at least one gauranteed clone generator (illusionary counter is not one) and one phantasm…
Illusionary Counter is good enough for me, it’s not like you have any reason to keep Sceptre Clones around outside of Shattering (in which case you’d be using Deceptive Evasion). Seriously, I rarely get to Ether Clone when I use the Sceptre, it really makes little difference if it’s gone (from a PvP standpoint anyhow).
Null Field lasts for 4s on a 45s CD and removes one condition and boon per pulse, for a total of 4 conditions and boons. The tooltip is wrong, it does not remove all conditions and boons at once and it does not last 6s.
It is, really, a rather poor condition removal, especially if it’s your only one (which it will be).
As for stealth, Mesmers have four stealth skills. Decoy is the most common, 3s stealth on a 32s CD. Mass Invisibility, an Elite, is also often used, 5s stealth on a 90s CD. It also has a rather long cast time. The Prestige is rarely used due to being on the Torch, 3s stealth on a 30s CD. Veil is never used, 4 – 8s stealth on a 90s CD.
In duels, 99% of the time the enemy Mesmer will only be using Decoy and maybe Mass Invisibility. That’s not a lot of stealth at all.
They talked about doing that last year, which then turned out to be a 2s increase to Temporal Curtain’s Swiftness and a 5s increase to Signet of Inspiration’s random Swiftness.
I think Compounding Celerity can have a passive speed bonus in addition to its Illusion bonus… maybe 10%, and a further 7% per Illusion.
To be honest I think Ether Clone should be removed, as in it should inflict Confusion and not create a Clone. When Shatter builds want Clone generation they look to Deceptive Evasion, Ether Clone is too slow and too clumsy to be of much use; and if it isn’t fulfilling its purpose then why not remove it in favour of something that would fulfill a purpose: that of a MH condition damage weapon.
Well not really..not when there are stuff like hgh out there free to roam..Maybe your bleed warrior get srcewed by cond removal but without it some classes would be uncontrolable
And that’s the problem, isn’t it? Powerful condition cleansing is needed to balance a few professions’ powerful condition damage, which results in other professions with not-so-powerful condition damage being completely buried.
Given that condition damage has two stats devoted to it, I think all professions deserve to be able to make viable condition damage builds, not just the select few powerful enough to break through ridiculous condition cleansing.
A mesmer asking for more condition removal, while simultaneously asking for other professions’ abilities to build for condition removal to be nerfed.
I’m sorry, but I really hope nobody on the development team takes your suggestion seriously. Mesmers are in an extremely good place at the moment compared to some others.
Not to mention, conditions are already extremely powerful in their current state when you build for them. Don’t underestimate the ability to cause an enemy’s health to steadily tick down, completely unhindered by armor. That instantly puts a time limit on the fight.
Really, I feel like the only people packing enough cleanses to keep up with condition stacking are Elementalists, and HGH Engineers maybe. In most other cases, those conditions go right back up.
You’re missing the point entirely. This is not about the Mesmer, I used it as an example because it is the profession I have the most experience with.
(And if you read my original post you should realise that this is mainly about how certain professions’ condition builds cannot deal with certain professions’ condition cleansing, not about professions being unable to deal with condition builds.)
(Also, Power Mesmers are in a good state, it should be obvious that if I am biased my bias is towards Condition Mesmers; which are not part of the current meta because of the above reasons.)
To spell it out, some professions have very powerful condition damage, and some don’t. Some professions have very powerful condition cleansing, and some don’t. Together they create an extreme that I think needs to be lessened.
As much as people moan how Confusion is weak, make no mistake: pound for pound Confusion is the most powerful damaging condition. The only reason why it seems weak is because its availability is much, much lower than Bleeding or Burning, which also makes it easier to avoid and cleanse.
Letting Illusions freely dish out Confusion will be very OP. Remember when Trident Clones inflicted Confusion? Yeah.
(Although Trident Clones are still OP with Bleeding, as they inflict it much, much faster than they did Confusion).
My thoughts are that perhaps condition removal should be more heavily tied to utility skills rather than traits, that would solve the “for condition removal you must build a certain way” issue.
Using the Mesmer as an example, the only top tier condition cleanser it has is Shattered Conditions, yet it is never taken as there are few viable builds in the current meta that can incorporate it. Outside of that trait all the Mesmer’s condition cleansers are mediocre, which leaves the profession in general highly susceptible to conditions.
While I understand that some professions are meant to be better at dealing with conditions than others, I feel the discrepancy is too great: some professions can very easily incorporate powerful condition cleansers into their viable builds, to the point that some condition damage builds simply cannot touch them at all.
Which of course brings me to the next issue… building for condition damage with certain professions simply isn’t viable in the face of overwhelming condition cleansing that is easily available to other professions. Again yes, some professions should be able to deal condition damage better than others, but yet again the discrepancy is too great; not helped by the discrepancy in condition cleansing.
TL;DR: The gap of condition damage and cleansing power between professions is too great. Professions with poor condition damage do no damage at all to professions with great cleansing power.
Both skills have a range of 900 though.
I agree that Scepter needs a buff, although considering I still use it as my primary weapon alongside Staff, it isn’t that bad. I feel it could be made a viable weapon with just two tweaks:
1. Speed up the attack speed of skill #1 so it is on par with the Necro’s scepter auto-attacks. The fact that the Mesmer scepter throws out projectiles which must travel to their target should prevent it from being too OP, and it also really fixates the Scepter as the Mesmer’s “clone generation” weapon.
I wouldn’t object to Ether Clone also causing Confusion as per its original description, but it may be too powerful with an increased attack speed.
2. Change Illusionary Counter/Counterspell so that it inflicts 3 stacks of Confusion on a hit in addition to its current functionality.
That seems sensible. I’d maybe make it Blind + 3 Confusion + Cripple (or something like that) on actually blocking, and only Blind on doing Counterspell. So that the block gets an extra punch, which would also work well if the Sword OH were updated to do a 2s daze on blocking, and then combining them to a Scepter + Sword tank setup.
Dear Lord, you don’t ask for much do you?
I agree with making Illusionary Counter inflict 3 stacks of 5s Confusion on trigger, but its direct damage has to be greatly reduced. One stack of 3s Confusion to Ether Clone + reduce Ether Clone cast time by 0.5s should likewise be paired with a reduction to direct damage done by the Ether Bolt chain.
I’d like to see the Sceptre as our MH condition damage weapon, as it was originally meant to be.
You need to consider though that conditions for condition builds are their primary source of damage. By removing them you’ve negated their damage. Direct damage can’t be completely negated this way.
My problem is with condition cleansing traits that allow you to cleanse conditions much more frequently than you can with skills alone.
Also, note that powerful condition cleansing traits are not readily available to all professions. This seems like too big a discrepancy to me and needs to be addressed, if such traits are supposed to balance “top level” condition damage.
(edited by Embolism.8106)
I do think however that Confusion in sPvP and WvW needs to be stronger: it’s the only way Condition Mesmers can apply any sort of burst, except it’s unreliable and even when it works is not that dangerous.
Anyways, Condition Mesmers are still quite subpar in terms of damage compared to other condition damage professions, so while the fixing of bug 1 is nice the rest do need to be looked at.
So what you guys are saying is that condition cleansing is balanced against the most powerful condition damage professions, and therefore what needs to be done is all other condition damage professions need to be buffed significantly?
It’s interesting that your opinions on the condition Necro differ so greatly.