Guild Wars 2

It seems to me that many professions have traits that makes them extremely (passively) resistant to conditions, which in turn makes them almost impossible to kill with condition builds. Now, granted I play Condition Mesmer which is not a particularly strong condition damage profession, but what do other people think?

Unless Anet plans to rework Interrupts, our many Interrupt traits could possibly be reworked to work on Confusion activation instead. A new trait might even be “Interrupt foes when they trigger Confusion, 15s CD” or something.

An important thing to keep in mind is that if your condition gets cleansed, +Duration would basically have no benefit, while with +Damage you would at least get some extra damage in before it was cleansed. Of course, this only applies to longer conditions, and things like 1s > 2s Burning are unlikely to suffer from this.

It rips 2 boons off and cleanses 2 conditions, has a relatively low RoF (for a condition cleanser) and a relatively low CD to boot. Really, if you look at just that it is one of our best condition cleansers, after Shattered Conditions.

Its problem is the same problem with all Phantasms. Half the things your opponent does will cause it to fail to conjure and go into its full CD, which is unacceptable if it’s your only condition cleansing skill (which tends to be the case with us Mesmers).

Far-Reaching Manipulations changes Arcane Thievery to a version that has 40s CD.

The thing about range-modifying traits is that they don’t just modify the base skill, they change it to a different skill altogether (you can see this when you equip such traits, and the skill on your skillbar flips like you swapped it out). The problem is that these skills frequently get missed when balance changes occur to the base skill.

Hence why you get Arcane Thievery with 40s CD and iDuelist with 100% projectile finisher when traited for longer range.

One stack of Confusion for 3s on Ether Clones sounds good. I think Phantasmal Mage should continue inflicting Confusion, it just needs to be able to double-tap enemies.

Ross Biddle.2367:

You, Sir, are jaundice.

… What? I don’t get it.

Fuschia.6573:

Regardless. This isn’t an argument, you won’t win it any harder by misrepresenting what I am saying, and it’s not even particularly on topic.

Bit combative aren’t we? I wasn’t even arguing anything with regards to what you’re suggesting, just stating a fact.

jportell.2197:

all they would really need to do is switch up where the trait for the scepter is (vitality/healing trait tree wut?) and just re add the confusion somewhere in the auto attack.

First the trait needs to work with more than just Confusing Images, with Illusionist’s Celerity the CD reduction is not applied to Illusionary Counter. Also, change the boring (and relatively useless) +50 CondDmg effect to +300 range, maybe.

The main thing Ether Bolt needs I think is Ether Clone’s cast time should be reduced to 0.5s. It’s not just a buff, it would also make it feel much smoother; currently it feels like Ether Clone interrupts the flow of the chain with its doubled cast time.

I would like to see Ether Clone inflict one stack of Confusion for 3s, but I doubt Anet will ever do that.

zaxon.6819:

power percision condition gear?

CondDmg Precision Toughness is generally better. You don’t benefit much from Power whereas Toughness imparts a lot of survivability plus extra CondDmg if you use Runes of the Undead and/or Chaotic Transference.

The Wiki is very often wrong. iWarden’s CD is 25s.

Condition Mesmer =/= Confusion Mesmer. Also, you are speaking of old WvW Confusion Mesmers, which as you know no longer applies.

What I said is by no means “horribly wrong”.

Random conditions and boons are part of the chaos aspect of the Mesmer, represented by the Staff and the Chaos trait line. It is not the core of Mesmer design.

3 stacks of Confusion is what, 500+ damage per skill use? And you can maintain it forever by just spamming your autoattack? Far too much.

Besides, Anet wants Confusion to be a burst condition rather than a maintain condition, so they will never readd it to the Sceptre.

The Prestige’s fire was changed to purple to fit the Mesmer theme. Can Clone death explosions from taking Clone death traits get the same treatment?

jportell.2197:

Fuschia.6573:

If you ask me they need to split things up.

Make Scepter the MH condition weapon and add Pistol as the MH power weapon. Give Pistol the excellent clone generation so it works well with Shatter builds and make Scepter have one reliable condition and one ‘random’ one and I’ll be happy.

No randoms. Make AA stack 3 stacks for 5 seconds in the second chain. (confusion). Then fix the torch trait to remove more conditions

Be very nice if Cleansing Conflagration removed like 3 conditions, yeah. 3 stacks of 5s Confusion every what, 4 seconds is too much.

Eclipse.1567:

Which confusion was hiting too hard in WvW?
The one in 1v1 or small scale fights when you just have to wait the big stacks coming from shatter disappeared? or the one coming from ethereal field combo in large scales fights? Because thats the only 2 ways a mesmer can stack a lot of confusion and 1 is countereable when the other comes from an another game mechanic than mesmer.
From a sPvP point of view there is no confusion build for mesmers also.

Let’s be fair, even if you’re great at waiting out/cleansing Confusion sometimes you won’t be able to help taking one or two ticks of damage, which in PvE Confusion means something like 4000 – 8000 damage. There’s also things like (for Asura) Pain Inverter, Confusing Images (which granted is easy to dodge) and with the CondDuration fix iMage would actually be quite potent if they kept PvE Confusion. With enough Confusion application your opponent won’t be able to cleanse them all and will have to take damage/be forced to do nothing for a long time.

Also, I’ve built an sPvP Confusion build taking advantage of the CondDuration fix, and it actually works reasonably well. Confusion from Confusing Combatants stick around for a while, and iMage can keep 3 stacks on its target for a reasonable amount of time. Not to mention conventional Confusion sources last a long time with lots of CondDuration.

From an sPvP point of view there is no Confusion nerf, unless you’re talking about Blinding Befuddlement. To be perfectly fair Confusion was far too damaging in WvW against players. Having said that, Confusion could do with a small buff in sPvP, and therefore WvW, as well; but that’s not a bug and not part of this appeal.

Condition builds and Shatter builds (assuming Shatter here means Mind Wrack) are two very different builds. They are pretty much mutually exclusive.

Condition builds do use Shatter skills (mainly Cry of Frustration), but mostly as a supplement rather than as their main source of damage.

At least Ether Bolt is homing. But yeah, its DPS is too low (and it would be very nice if it dealt some condition damage) and Ether Clone having double the cast time really breaks the flow of the autoattack.

I’m slightly amused that people call this a buff when it’s really a bug fix. Then I’m sad that people consider the fixing of this long-standing bug a buff.

All in all I am very happy with this. Finally WvW Condition Mesmers don’t fail completely when their opponents eat -40% CondDuration food (and are that much more deadly when their opponents do not).

If they fix iMage’s bounce logic to enemy-ally-enemy-ally as opposed to enemy-ally-ally-ally then it should be good, with a CD decrease too maybe.

oZii.2864:

Just confirmed that condition duration now is passed on to clones.

God almighty you are right. And +Boon Duration works too. This is the best undocumented change ever. Unless it was documented and I’m just blind.

Phantasmal Mage is much more effective now, although still pretty weak compared to other Phantasms. Now if its bounce logic allows it to double-tap it might finally be on par (though it might still need a CD reduction).

The most common reason this happens for me is when a WoC bounce hits the target right after I stealth. Make sure you don’t have any projectiles in transit.

Ross Biddle.2367:

Generally speaking, you need to post this in the suggestions forums if you ever want a dev to see it.

And your claim is based on…?

Seriously, the Devs won’t look at a thread unless it’s been on the boards long enough (or garnered enough outraged replies in a short amount of time). Posting such threads in the profession forums makes more sense as people who visit these forums are much more likely to be interested than random players in the Suggestion forums.

The following bugs must be fixed first.

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1. The +Condition Duration stat does not affect Illusions.

This is particularly devastating in WvW, where people frequently eat -40% Condition Duration food which severely cripples Staff Clone damage (the 1s Burning is negated entirely), and since Illusions do not benefit from +Condition Duration you cannot negate this by eating +40% Condition Duration food.

This bug is also partially responsible for why Phantasmal Mage and Confusing Combatants are worthless: Master of Misdirection, and any +Condition Duration for that matter, have no effect on the Confusion they inflict.

+Boon Duration has the same problem, but that’s not directly relevant to Condition Mesmers.

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2. Bleeding inflicted by Staff Clones’ Winds of Chaos lasts 5s, instead of 7s like the player’s Winds of Chaos.

Burning from Staff Clones deal more damage in one second than Bleeding deals in 5 seconds. That doesn’t make sense and given this inconsistency is highly unlikely to be a “balancing act”. Given how the tooltip on the player’s Winds of Chaos shows Bleeding to last for 5s when you take Chaotic Dampening, this is likely another case of Illusions being forgotten when the base skill was changed.

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3. Illusionary Elasticity affects Trident Clones and Phantasmal Mage, but not Staff Clones.

Given that Illusionary Elasticity would double the output of Staff Clones I wonder if this was intended, but it is an undocumented inconsistency so I will assume it is a bug. One way or another though, if there is going to be inconsistencies in what traits affect then it should be documented.

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4. Phantasmal Mage’s bounce logic is enemy-ally-ally-ally-…, instead of enemy-ally-enemy-ally-… like other bouncing attack-buffs.

Again I wonder if this is intended, though for what reason I cannot say… I think the Phantasmal Mage would actually be balanced if its bounce logic allows it to double-tap enemies. Again, more inconsistency than obvious bug.

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5. Phantasmal Duelist is a 100% projectile finisher when you take Duelist’s Discipline.

As with 2., this looks like a case of a skill being changed without changing other skills based on it, in this case the Duelist’s Discipline version of Phantasmal Duelist. Allows Mesmers to get 8x Confusion through Ethereal Fields. Probably the only bug fix for Condition Mesmers that’s a nerf.

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The most critical bug is of course 1. Before any balancing act is done to Condition Mesmers 1. absolutely must be fixed first because fixing it changes a lot. Please, fix this bug that has plagued Condition Mesmers since the beginning of Beta.

jportell.2197:

Embolism.8106:

My guess is that the change was made because of Chaos Armour. Which is silly, especially given the Confusion nerf in WvW.

Although, I’m pretty sure Confusion from Blinding Befuddlement was always something like 3 – 5s, not 1s like the patch notes claim it is “buffed” from…

It was 3s before. And yes the confusion nerf plus this one is ridiculous. Also the ICD exists even if the target is no longer blinded which contradicts the freaking patch notes. Good Job anet!

The question then is whether it’s just a typo or are Anet really that thick…

My guess is that the change was made because of Chaos Armour. Which is silly, especially given the Confusion nerf in WvW.

Although, I’m pretty sure Confusion from Blinding Befuddlement was always something like 3 – 5s, not 1s like the patch notes claim it is “buffed” from…

By “the armour” do you mean Chaos Armour? Because that doesn’t just work against melee attacks, it procs on ranged and AoE attacks too.

And Mesmers are one of the best professions at reflecting projectiles, if you have problems with ranged enemies I suggest you use them: skills like Mirror, Feedback, Mimic; and if traited Distortion, Temporal Curtain, Phantasmal Warden…

… Let’s be honest. That minute amount is negligible.

But I’d probably go for Power since 5 Precision probably won’t increase your CritChance by even 1%.

A more pressing concern is for conditions inflicted by Illusions to be affected by +condition duration. 3s of Confusion from Confusing Combatants with no way to increase it just isn’t that useful.

The same problem applies to all other Clone death conditions and Clone attack conditions, as well as boons provided by Illusions…

While it seems crude on first glance, it really isn’t a bad idea. MoRes being a Healing skill should probably remain as it is (I don’t feel it needs such a huge buff anyway), and I don’t think MoRec would overlap with Null Field very much: presumably the pbAoE is much smaller and the way the two skills work are really quite different. MoP, MoC and MoD would definitely benefit greatly from being AoE, especially in PvE where Mantras are generally situational to the point of uselessness.

If Confusion and Retaliation are now breaking the mold to use the PvP version in WvW, why shouldn’t all other skills that have a PvP version?

After all, the whole point of PvP/PvE splits is to ensure that skills remain balanced when used against other players. Previously it appeared that Anet is happy with WvW not being particularly balanced, but with the Confusion/Retaliation change it would appear they do: in which case the logical thing to do would be to go all the way.

Chaos Armour used to proc Protection or Regeneration on hit. People complained that that’s too weak and not “armour like” (with silly arguments such as “you shouldn’t be hit using a ranged weapon so gaining boons when you’re hit is USELESS!”), so Anet changed the Chaos Armour effect to Swiftness or Regeneration on hit and made the Chaos Armour skill bestow Protection on cast.

If the skill was actually worth using then maybe. As it is though it’s a crappy skill so any voiceover on it would be/is wasted.

A good player should be able to differentiate Clones from the real Mesmer without the real Mesmer doing anything obvious, in fact there is a UI option that does the differentiation for you last time I checked.

Nretep.2564:

I can’t convince myself to remove my 5 points from Chaos to get 10 in Domination. It sure is nice, but 10+s regeneration it a great help for surviability.

You already have Phantasmal Healing for permanent Regeneration, Metaphysical Rejuvenation should generally be redundant.

And I really see no reason to take Persisting Images, +20% HP is not terribly effective given how fragile Phantasms are (Phantasmal Defender being the only exception): I doubt it will let Phantasms take even one extra hit in most cases.

Contrary to what many people claim, Mesmer condition is not absolutely terrible in PvE. It is however quite inefficient at clearing trash mobs as Staff conditions need time to ramp up DPS, and trash mobs tend to die before the Staff achieves its maximum DPS.

Really though, Area Reflection (with a chance of Confusion) is so absurdly powerful in zerg situations I don’t see taking Retaliation damage as unfair.

The Mesmer actually has very ample access to Retaliation, to the point of being able to maintain permanent Retaliation with the right build.

The trait Confusing Cry allows Cry of Frustration to apply 5s Retaliation to the Mesmer per Illusion Shattered, that is 15s of Retaliation (without +boon duration) on a 20 – 30s CD.

Temporal Curtain is a Light Field, Illusionary Leap is a double Leap Finisher. A Sword-Focus Mesmer can thus get 10s+ of Retaliation every 20 – 25s.

Combine the above two and voila, permanent Retaliation on a Mesmer. In fact the Retaliation Tank Mesmer is becoming increasingly popular amongst PvP and WvW Mesmers.

A similar effect can be seen when you test any beam attack against the Lion’s Arch practice dummies. Quite sure it’s a bug.

Once you get Deceptive Evasion the Clone generation of the Sceptre becomes irrelevant (in fact it becomes a liability because the Sceptre is the only weapon without an on-demand Clone conjuration skill).

The Sceptre’s autoattack is the weakest of all MH/2H and is therefore widely considered a poor choice. It is mainly used when people really want to use two OHs or as a secondary weapon set that you don’t plan to DPS with.

The Staff is the Mesmer’s condition damage weapon as well as its best defensive weapon. Every Mesmer build can benefit from using the Staff, no exceptions.

The GS is the Mesmer’s ranged DPS and AoE weapon. It’s powerful, but tends to see less use than the Staff even in Power builds, as Power builds tend to use Sword as the primary weapon and take Staff for its excellent defense.

The Sword has the highest DPS of all Mesmer weapons and is also a very efficient boon-stripper (very important in PvP). Blurred Frenzy is both heavy burst and invulnerability and Illusionary Leap is a gap-closer, CC and double Leap Finisher. Very well-rounded weapon overall.

Runes of the Nightmare would make no difference and are decidedly inferior to Runes of the Undead if your opponent are not completely and utterly hopeless: in which case you would already be stomping all over them and Runes of the Nightmare still won’t make a significant difference.

+10% Condition Duration increases the duration of your Confusion by 0.3s (for Shatters) to 0.5s (for Glamours and Confusing Images). That is shorter than the cast time of many autoattacks, never mind skills likely to be used in zerg situations like AoEs and such. Your chances of proccing even one extra Confusion is not high even assuming your opponent spams the lowest cast time skill they have available non-stop.

In my experience no mobs are immune to Moa Morph, although its duration on champion/boss mobs is quite short.

The Plagiarist.

Pyroatheist.9031:

Embolism.8106:

I would’ve thought that factoring in human unpredictability would make condition damage seem even better than condition duration.

In theory, the best case scenario would be your opponent spamming a low CT attack, which with +10% condition duration is realistically going to give you one extra proc, if that. Factoring in human unpredictability means they might do things other than spamming their low CT attack, so the results can only be worse.

You forget that a glamour build is a generally a zerg busting tool. Ikittenerg, people are doing nothing but spamming attacks and aoes as quickly as they can. That makes the condition duration more potent. Additionally, in non zerg situations, the longer confusion acts as a shutdown tool, which can be very helpful.

Except not all players use autoattacks that have lower CTs than 0.5s, and ikittenerg spam AoEs and other skills that are likely to be used have even longer CTs than most autoattacks. The fact is getting an extra Confusion proc with 0.5s is remote even under ideal situations. You’re better off getting extra condition damage to ensure the Confusion that does proc hit harder.

As for shutdown… it’s 0.3 – 0.5s. I already have 5s – 8.5s of Confusion, what difference is an extra 0.3 – 0.5s going to make? Also consider the -40% condition duration food, which I think a player smart enough to not attack through Confusion is likely to have: that reduces the duration bonus of +10% to negligible levels.

kylia.4813:

Remember that some attacks cause confusion to trigger multiple times, also include things such as on weapon swap, or on dodge roll abilities and people who mash buttons, your going to get lots of confusion ticks in a short period of time, one of my fav videos of this is – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMI_MzO52lw&feature=youtube_gdata_player

around the 53 second mark against the poor fighter, 4 hits within the second

As for people who mash buttons without actually activating anything, that’s basing your theorycrafting on the lowest of the low denominator: “it works better when your opponent is even more stupid than usual!” Is not really valid theorycrafting.

Also, your numbers might make sense for consistent conditions like Burning and Bleeding, but not for an unpredictable one like Confusion.

According to the wiki, it is 2600 + 0.2 x Healing Power, which coincides with my experience with it.

If Anet were an indie Dev I’d say the possibility of this happening to be extremely remote. With a Publisher breathing down their necks? No chance. Not at all.

Play test server maybe, but that doesn’t solve the problem. The rest won’t happen, ever.

SneakyErvin.3056:

If people are really dense and stand still, which most dont. There are too many variables that make iWarden a kitten poor choice for anything except a shatter spec really. He is just too static, he doesnt even move after his initial summoning.

That wasn’t the point though: you implied that condition Mesmers benefit much less from the Focus than Power Mesmers do. The problem you mentioned here applies just as much to Power Mesmers.

I’d actually say condition Mesmers are better suited for the Focus, because 1. condition Mesmers are heavily reliant on the Staff, so what you use for your other set (in terms of DPS) is not particularly important; and 2. condition Mesmers have problems catching runners, and Temporal Curtain helps with that.

Power Mesmers on the other hand essentially sacrifice a Phantasm (which condition Mesmers don’t care much about) if they use the Focus.

Focus is just as viable for a condition Mesmer as it is for a Power Mesmer IMO. The Warden can inflict a lot of Bleeding with Sharper Images so it scales pretty well with condition damage.

Personally I always take Descent into Madness in WvW for jumping down cliffs and walls. Mostly a convenience thing but can come in handy if combat takes place near said cliffs and walls.

Otherwise I’d take Illusionary Defense. Debilitating Dissipation kind of relies on your opponents being stupid and even then it has a good chance of dispensing a crappy effect.

I would’ve thought that factoring in human unpredictability would make condition damage seem even better than condition duration.

In theory, the best case scenario would be your opponent spamming a low CT attack, which with +10% condition duration is realistically going to give you one extra proc, if that. Factoring in human unpredictability means they might do things other than spamming their low CT attack, so the results can only be worse.