Guild Wars 2

Lothair.8942:

Flynch.6034:

Marcus Greythorne.6843:

impossible to argue with 99% of misinformed people… I guess this really bad communication on Anets side about this costs them quite a few customers.

Posters who are trying to explain the system just drown here. I admit, I didn’t get it first either. Bad communication. Anet, just respond to the people.

Pretty much 100% this.

Anet need to release some details that are concrete and this thread can be put to sleep. Currently there are thousands of players commenting on something that they think will happen.

And that’s fair enough, as the details are far from refined. It’s very easy to read the blogs and then see what you want to see. It’s too ambiguous and frankly Anet need to sort it out. The forums are not a nice place to be at the moment.

How much more can they spell it out? They showed us gear progression items, they talked about the future changes. They talked about PVE gating via Infusions. What am I missing here? I see a lot of informed people who care about their game discussing it and not liking the direction it is going in.

I can tell you one thing – the amount of outcry shows ANET just how passionate their community is about the game and how they want it to thrive. This is a big misstep on their part if it goes live – a lot of voices will be silenced and when anger turns to resentment to disinterest then ANET will have a lot to worry about.

Here is what we know, give or take:

New Agony system for a new dungeon.

New gear that is being released in bundles over time that has a slot designed for use in the dungeon (offensive, defensive and omni).

Current image showing a comparison with exotic, Ascended ring has more stats than Exotic with upgrade.

Legendary weapons will be boosted to remain BIS

New content will be released over time.

Ascended gear can be gained through a multitude of ways.

It will not affect sPvP as standard.

What we don’t know, give or take:

How Agony works – does it stand to stop players in their tracks after a certain point, or is it a diminishing mechanic that allows players to enjoy the dungeon and then get to a point where Agony resist is absolutely crucial. Is it gating or is it a soft-cap.

How much of a grind is the new armour to get.

Are there new recipes for upgrades that can be applied to Exotics to bring them up to the same stat-standard as the Ascended gear. Also helps crafting.

Will further dungeons use this Agony mechanic (keeping Ascended gear relative) or will they use a new mechanic that needs new gear.

I have probably forgotten some things but this is the gist of the situation in my opinion

Marcus Greythorne.6843:

impossible to argue with 99% of misinformed people… I guess this really bad communication on Anets side about this costs them quite a few customers.

Posters who are trying to explain the system just drown here. I admit, I didn’t get it first either. Bad communication. Anet, just respond to the people.

Pretty much 100% this.

Anet need to release some details that are concrete and this thread can be put to sleep. Currently there are thousands of players commenting on something that they think will happen.

And that’s fair enough, as the details are far from refined. It’s very easy to read the blogs and then see what you want to see. It’s too ambiguous and frankly Anet need to sort it out. The forums are not a nice place to be at the moment.

phooka.4295:

HiddenNick.7206:

Jnaathra.6549:

Generally people do not like to be lied to. I don’t see why this is so shocking.

You don’t get my point… I don’t think they were lied to.

How is the pink ring making their exotic armor any weeker then before?

For me trademill and adding a purple ring once a month are just two different things. Are you shocked that I’m thinking this way?

Sigh.

Please, could you, too, read up on all the information that was given so far before posting uninformed opinions that are, sorry, either false or misleading?

For one:

The ring doesn’t make any weapon or armor obsolete. Weapons and armor with superior stats will do so. And it’s been said officially that there will eventually be a complete ascended set. So ascended weapons and armor will come. That’s a given. It’s announced. It’s in the blogpost.

Now, you can ignore the facts, plant your fingers in your ears and pretend that it’s only a ring. But please don’t sully conversations between others with misinformation.

But what’s worse:

The rings already render one profession (juwelcrafting) pretty useless. Would you still buy an exotic ring on the TP that’s more expensive than exotic armor? It requires more (expensive) materials, so the higher price is justified. But noone will want to pay that money now that better rings are around the corner, coming from some dungeon.

So the rings already hurt the economy. The damage is done before the patch is even life.

Except that, you know, there’re 200 new recipes coming along with this new gear, and if Anet have any sense (and I’d wager the have a magnitude of more sense than the current forum-goers) they will have recipes that include better runes etc that can be used on Exotics to make them en-par with the Ascended gear.

Not only allowing for greater build customization for your characters, but also making sure the Exotics are not obsolete and helping the crafting out too.

But then again, everyone is throwing the baby out with the bathwater on this one so yeah, /popcorn i guess.

I don’t mind being the sidekick and losing the glory to Trahearne too much, but what I would really love is if the devs re-wrote the ending and basically ‘offed’ Trahearne in such a manner that your character is forced to take over.

By ‘offed’ I mean, killed or possibly turns out to be a traitor or something. Anything. Just a twist that leaves the character/underdog coming up trumps in the last chapter, forced to make tough decisions etc etc

Bit more meat on the bone for the storyline.

Surely LF1M ONLY full Ascended gear allowed ‘map grouping’ is exactly, and I mean EXACTLY, the same as LF1M ONLY full Exotic gear allowed anyway?

And if that is happening now, then what’s the beef with the new content?

Swoo.5079:

Flynch.6034:

Swoo.5079:

Flynch.6034:

It’s slightly strange that the people who are vehemently against the geargrind are the ones who are so focussed on the stat differences between gear in the first place. Normally people who are all about spreadsheeting item stats are found in games that actively promote geargrind, as opposed to a game where a percentile difference won’t make or break the experience.

If it makes no difference why bother?

The people wanting more power won’t get them and still be bored, the people not wanting a gear grind for stats will be annoyed and disappointed.

Presumably because if it doesn’t affect a majority in any way, but means a minority enjoy the progression, then that’s ok.

Apparently it does affect.

When you shift power plateau, the skill differences get washed by the gear.

Considering Ascended items are supposed to be harder to get than exotic (read grindier) it means you have to spend more time grinding items rather then acquiring secondary sets to try out different builds, rather than playing different professions to learn them.

Instead of one developing themselves as player they need to spend more time developing their characters.

Developing yourself as a player is an endless task. Developing your character is a question of spending time.

Ah but this is the rub though. We’re all assuming that players are immediately going to forgo any kind of personal progression and focus entirely on getting the new gear, and that’s also on the proviso that they want to go much further in the new dungeon than the other players.

However, the new gear is coming out in bundles. We’re only getting 2 so far. How long does it take to get a full set of Exotics? And these players can also enjoy themselves in the new dungeon without the new gear anyway – it is only preventative at a certain point, namely repeating the same run.

All of this is then carried by the weight of assumptions that there will be no way to equalise the stats of the new gear and the current exotic gear, even though 200 or so recipes have been announced, which may also include a plethora of better runes etc which can not be applied to Agony armour.

Tallis.5607:

Flynch.6034

Ok now i’m really confused – which part of the current angst is about grinding, and what is there that’s suddenly new that we need to grind for?

The extra stats on the new gear. Read the blog, it’s all there: new gear that a) gives you more stats in all situations and b) a new infusion slot that you must have and fill to do the new content.

They are even upgrading the legendaries to the new stats, so obviously, the new stats & slot are not insignificant.

That is the very definition of gear grinding.

Untill now it was pretty easy: you get to 80, you get the top gear wherever you want and you can do any content you want.

From now on, it will be like each and every MMO there: you get to 80, you get the first set of top gear wherever you want, then you grind AGAIN for the second tier of top gear before you can do the end-game.

You used to go 80 > buy or earn exotic > end-game content.
Now you will go 80 > buy or earn exotic > grind for ascendent & infusion > end-game content.

You can look at this any way you want, you can call it any way you want, you can make as many posts you want, this new tier of gear is simply an added grind.

Making this MMO exactly the same as all the other MMOs out there.

<sad face>

I’ve read the blog, also double checked it.

Nothing there says that I need or require the armour to do the new content. I just need it to repeat the content sequentially as the Agony mechanic bumps the difficulty. Seems fine to me.

If it turns out that to even set foot inside the new content i’ll need to grind for the gear, then yeah i’ll be annoyed. But from the looks of it, you can go in with your current gear, presumably find Agony-resist drops in the dungeon anyway, and continue on your merry way.

edit: clarity

Gameplay may change over time. Pretty sure that’s the standard MMO clause.

It would have been wiser to post this thread tomorrow though – any kind of positivity, especially if it is as zealous as the negativity in some threads, will be torn asunder today.

Swoo.5079:

Flynch.6034:

It’s slightly strange that the people who are vehemently against the geargrind are the ones who are so focussed on the stat differences between gear in the first place. Normally people who are all about spreadsheeting item stats are found in games that actively promote geargrind, as opposed to a game where a percentile difference won’t make or break the experience.

If it makes no difference why bother?

The people wanting more power won’t get them and still be bored, the people not wanting a gear grind for stats will be annoyed and disappointed.

Presumably because if it doesn’t affect a majority in any way, but means a minority enjoy the progression, then that’s ok.

LordByron.8369:

Flynch.6034:

LordByron.8369:

Flynch.6034:

It’s slightly strange that the people who are vehemently against the geargrind are the ones who are so focussed on the stat differences between gear in the first place. Normally people who are all about spreadsheeting item stats are found in games that actively promote geargrind, as opposed to a game where a percentile difference won’t make or break the experience.

its not strange …..as i said my experience..

-GW2 is coming….oh well i don t have time for mmorpgs
-ANET “hey this is grind free, and all is endgame”
-“ok i’m in, i m dropping my old community and get friends here”

3 months after
Anet “well that was a joke”
Me “kitten”

I’m not sure I follow you. I don’t think i’ve had to go out and grind for anything at all. I just figure i’ll get what I want eventually, and in the meantime, i’ll go out and work and socialise when i’ve had enough GW2 for one day. I don’t feel like I need anything, I just have plenty of things that I want.

exotic: easy to obtain….
Legendary: almost impossible for 99% players due to heavy grind (fact)

Ascended is pictured as a way between…….so if you really ignore what it means well try to think at some named exotics…..or even worse…..HALLOWEEN CRAFTABLES!

then you have your idea…..

Also in the meantime you are less efficient in www and discriminated in PvE….

But cool you’ll work hard for that………yetyou know it will happen again and again because its already stated there…..its certain despite it need to be read carefully.
i’ll post it again:
“we’re only adding the first level of Infusions and Ascended Rings and Back slots, so that leaves us a lot of room to build upon these levels of Item progression in future content”

So if a majority of players (99%) don’t have a legendary anyway, then why is it a requirement for people to grind for it?

It’s not. That’s the thing. There is no requirement for the grind. It is the player who dictates how much time they want to spend on a given activity. The game certainly does not hold a gun to your head and says ‘grind grind grind’. There is no gated content and ergo no grind required for anything.

Tallis.5607:

Valtameri.2075:

Tell me about it, just came from Planetside 2 forum and oh my what a whinefest.
Not as bad as here tho, but still…

Well, what did you expect? That players said ‘oh, well, you told us that this would not be a grind MMO, but now you changed, no problem, Anet, we will just be quiet and grind, grind grind’?

And, no, we do not whine often. I didn’t see anyone whine in the last 3 months, except over Legendary drop rates (which Anet is now changing) and botting (which Anet is doing something about it too).

This broken no-grind-MMO promise is a serious topic, something that people feel very, very strong about.

*We do not whine about the small stuff.

But we do whine when you break one of your core promises.*

Ok now i’m really confused – which part of the current angst is about grinding, and what is there that’s suddenly new that we need to grind for?

Kimbald.2697:

Flynch.6034:

Kimbald.2697:

Flynch.6034:

Kimbald.2697:

Of course we don’t know all the details yet.

Of course a lot of these posts are irrational.

But still it’s good that the uproar is as loud as it is.
Simply because that gives a very strong signal.

The dev’s will filter what they can use, no need to do their job for them.

It definitely gives a strong signal that the game is very much alive, i’ll give you that And it also gets across the point that we don’t want a forced gear treadmill for the most part.

But if people are screaming at the top of their lungs at a passing plane, when it turns out to be a seagull, then people start looking a bit cuckoo.

Not more than when it would turn out to be a plane after all…
People screaming at a plane are pretty cuckoo to me

The question would remain: what makes these people scream at a plane?
Telling them to stop shouting will not give you the answer.
Listening to what they shout might shed some light on their motivation.

Heh yeah, or they could just turn to you and talk normally about what’s bothering them, without everyone nearby having to wear ear-mufflers ^^

the OP tells people to stop, it isn’t asking what is wrong.

For those plane shouting fruitcakes: that’s exactly what I would do yes. Just ask them, while they’re shouting probably.

It’s the devs that should come over and ask what’s wrong, and discuss things.
Let them handle the shouting, we want them to be disturbed by the noise. The fact that the OP or anyone else is disturbed by it, is rather irrelevant in the matter.

The devs should do some damage control I agree. But currently they’d simply get their heads bitten off anyway, so I can understand why they want things to settle down a bit.

The main problem though is that there are perfectly acceptable posts about negative feelinsg etc that are simply swamped by hysterical shouting about Anet lying, scamming, backstabbing, blowing up the moon… the usual. So it’s hard to really debate anything currently.

LordByron.8369:

Flynch.6034:

It’s slightly strange that the people who are vehemently against the geargrind are the ones who are so focussed on the stat differences between gear in the first place. Normally people who are all about spreadsheeting item stats are found in games that actively promote geargrind, as opposed to a game where a percentile difference won’t make or break the experience.

its not strange …..as i said my experience..

-GW2 is coming….oh well i don t have time for mmorpgs
-ANET “hey this is grind free, and all is endgame”
-“ok i’m in, i m dropping my old community and get friends here”

3 months after
Anet “well that was a joke”
Me “kitten”

I’m not sure I follow you. I don’t think i’ve had to go out and grind for anything at all. I just figure i’ll get what I want eventually, and in the meantime, i’ll go out and work and socialise when i’ve had enough GW2 for one day. I don’t feel like I need anything, I just have plenty of things that I want.

If it pans out how i’m expecting and hoping it will, i’m very excited about it.

Nalora.7964:

Your last statement says it all: “The game is meant to be fun.”

But, sadly it is not. It is work. It is grinding, excruciating work. Crafting is a joke. It has no merit, nothing you craft is worth anything. “Farm Events”? Repetitive grinding is not “fun” in my book. Perhaps I am just not the right kind of gamer for Guild Wars.

Most of my friends who began the game with me in BWE1 have already left. Most “well brained” people do not enjoy tedium. I am only still around because my last spark of hope for Guild Wars has not yet been completely snuffed out by their idiotic decisions.

Well that is completely dependent on what you want to get out of the game really. I hop onto the game, do a couple hours or whatever, then go and do something else. The fact that I can do this, without feeling tied to the game for hours on end unless i want to, is one of the most appealing factors to me.

Kimbald.2697:

Flynch.6034:

Kimbald.2697:

Of course we don’t know all the details yet.

Of course a lot of these posts are irrational.

But still it’s good that the uproar is as loud as it is.
Simply because that gives a very strong signal.

The dev’s will filter what they can use, no need to do their job for them.

It definitely gives a strong signal that the game is very much alive, i’ll give you that And it also gets across the point that we don’t want a forced gear treadmill for the most part.

But if people are screaming at the top of their lungs at a passing plane, when it turns out to be a seagull, then people start looking a bit cuckoo.

Not more than when it would turn out to be a plane after all…
People screaming at a plane are pretty cuckoo to me

The question would remain: what makes these people scream at a plane?
Telling them to stop shouting will not give you the answer.
Listening to what they shout might shed some light on their motivation.

Heh yeah, or they could just turn to you and talk normally about what’s bothering them, without everyone nearby having to wear ear-mufflers ^^

It’s slightly strange that the people who are vehemently against the geargrind are the ones who are so focussed on the stat differences between gear in the first place. Normally people who are all about spreadsheeting item stats are found in games that actively promote geargrind, as opposed to a game where a percentile difference won’t make or break the experience.

Kimbald.2697:

Of course we don’t know all the details yet.

Of course a lot of these posts are irrational.

But still it’s good that the uproar is as loud as it is.
Simply because that gives a very strong signal.

The dev’s will filter what they can use, no need to do their job for them.

It definitely gives a strong signal that the game is very much alive, i’ll give you that And it also gets across the point that we don’t want a forced gear treadmill for the most part.

But if people are screaming at the top of their lungs at a passing plane, when it turns out to be a seagull, then people start looking a bit cuckoo.

Marvyra.1729:

How about you all wait for some freaking patch notes? Why would they state EVERY little detail in a blogpost, that’s ridiculous.

Why can’t you people just have patience, wait for the update and THEN post your feedback about it, now you are only exhausting yourselves on speculations, what’s the point. You don’t KNOW ANYTHING about this update except for the few words, ascended gear, lost isle, dungeon, sPvP map.

Logic doesn’t work here at the moment. My wall has a forehead-shaped dent in it. Personally i’m going to check back later.

But as a passing comment, all of this will have blown over by November 20th. Guaranteed.

killcannon.2576:

Flynch.6034:

Celesica.5790:

Flynch.6034:

killcannon.2576:

Marvyra.1729:

Agreed, people are way in over their heads. Like always, whiny brats. It’s sad, it really is.

In order to be heard, you have to make a noise.

So long as you know what you’re really shouting about ^^

So long as you know what you’re really shouting about ^^

And we’ll “exactly” know that in 2 days, so people whining in advance is quite ridiculous. :p

Amen to that.

People “exactly” know what they are upset about now. Are you unclear what they are upset about? No need to wait two days when the problem is quite clearly posted in a blog post.

People are angry about a lot of things at the moment. Some are angry about gear progression treadmills, some are angry about gated content etc etc

Fact is, they are either right or they are wrong. They may know exactly what aspect of a game they are angry about, but they do not know exactly how that aspect of a game is going to be implemented in this particular one.

PhiLL.1746:

Celesica.5790:

Flynch.6034:

killcannon.2576:

Marvyra.1729:

Agreed, people are way in over their heads. Like always, whiny brats. It’s sad, it really is.

In order to be heard, you have to make a noise.

So long as you know what you’re really shouting about ^^

So long as you know what you’re really shouting about ^^

And we’ll “exactly” know that in 2 days, so people whining in advance is quite ridiculous. :p

There is a blog post.
What it says is that there will be a new tier of gear with higher stats than exotics.
If there are other things about it they didnt say, it is ALSO their fault. They should write better their blogposts.
We MUST say what we think about the idea this blogpost brings.

I agree with you. But currently it’s mass hysteria. Through Anet’s fault or not, people need to calm the kitten down for anyone to be taken seriously.

I don’t want to sound like a hippy, but going so mentally negative over something that is clearly ambiguous is a terrifying attribute for anyone to have.

But welcome to the internets i guess…

Levetty.1279:

Celesica.5790:

Flynch.6034:

killcannon.2576:

Marvyra.1729:

Agreed, people are way in over their heads. Like always, whiny brats. It’s sad, it really is.

In order to be heard, you have to make a noise.

So long as you know what you’re really shouting about ^^

So long as you know what you’re really shouting about ^^

And we’ll “exactly” know that in 2 days, so people whining in advance is quite ridiculous. :p

We know now, the blog post has specifically told us what is being added and how to get it.

No point waiting for 2 days to complain after everybody has already got it. The best we can hope for is that the devs grow a brain within the next two days and scrap the whole thing.

We know nothing apart from a few things that are coming, in a MASSIVE update. We have no idea what will affect the stats on current gear. We have no clue how the dungeons will operate until we’re actually trying them out.

Until we have the whole story, everyone is shooting at shadows.

Celesica.5790:

Flynch.6034:

killcannon.2576:

Marvyra.1729:

Agreed, people are way in over their heads. Like always, whiny brats. It’s sad, it really is.

In order to be heard, you have to make a noise.

So long as you know what you’re really shouting about ^^

So long as you know what you’re really shouting about ^^

And we’ll “exactly” know that in 2 days, so people whining in advance is quite ridiculous. :p

Amen to that.

dirtyklingon.2918:

i know i love being lied to by people i’ve spent hundreds of dollars of investment on based on a particular core selling point!

don’t you love being lied to?

hey guys, don’t we all love being lied to?

maybe we should all shut up and enjoy being lied to here!

hey maybe we should go one step further. and say thank you for lying to us! yes that’s a grand idea

thank you ncsoft for scamming me out of hundreds of dollars based on a single core selling point, then within 3 months doing the opposite of that selling point. you guys are just the best!

You are unable to take the time to wait to see if you have been lied to, yet you’re perfectly willing to chastise them for ‘scamming’ you out of hundreds of dollars?

Just relax a bit will you. If you have that sort of disposable income, you could at least use common sense.

Vakirauta.6397:

Don’t make me laugh. What have they done listening to us? Nothing. All the changes they have made was their own plan. But I wish, they were listening to players.

We have no idea how any of the things they have leaked will be implemented. We know almost nothing about the craftables, the Agony mechanic and how it works, the stats AFTER augmenting current gear with new upgrades, whether or not the dungeons drop the armour and a whole bunch more.

Honest to God, there’s no way I can blame them for not listening to most of the posts.

killcannon.2576:

Marvyra.1729:

Agreed, people are way in over their heads. Like always, whiny brats. It’s sad, it really is.

In order to be heard, you have to make a noise.

So long as you know what you’re really shouting about ^^

Gotta be honest, I was hoping i’d not see this level of madness on the forums again, not after the Spindrel-Gate of Rift.

But here we have it.

Wait a few days and see what gets shipped and how it works. It’s really depressing though that with such little information and a bag-load of hearsay, most people decide to go towards the negative.

Webba.3071:

Flynch.6034:

Webba.3071:

Flynch.6034:

At the risk of repeating something i’ve said in other threads, the new gear is less powerful than your normal gear as it cannot be upgraded.

Agony is also not a gating mechanic. Guys, you need to read up on how the dungeon scaling works. You can do the dungeon fine without it, but as you repeat the dungeon, Agony starts to come into play.

As you would know had you looked at the picture more closely the new gear has the upgrade stats built in and all stats are higher.

Against current available upgrades yes. There are a bunch of recipes coming out so i’m going on the assumption that some of those will add up to be greater than the Ascended stats. I just hope i’m not wrong, as i’m also in the ‘no treadmill’ camp for the most part.

I agree, a lot is riding on the surrounding updates and how it is all handled. Right now I think it could work but the way the information has been released and the tone of that blog post leave a really bad taste in my mouth.

I 100% agree with you on the way it has been handled. It’s honestly not hard to let the playerbase know what to expect in detail a few days before a large patch launch. Right now the mods are probably fire-fighting and anyone coming to the forums will also have a bad taste in their mouth.

If the ambiguity of the press and the press releases was solely to bring back gear-progression players into the game through intrigue with a vague mention of a treadmill, then they’ve dun goof’d.

edit: clarity

axiology.5807:

Flynch.6034:

axiology.5807:

Flynch.6034:

Jezath.7395:

Look…. The new gear is maybe 1 or 2 points better than the current exotic level, if yoyu check carefully the items are exotic stats with exotic upgrades already applied. the infusion will not give stat upgrades it is to counteract the agony that prevents you from delving deeper into the dungeon. So please stop all this raging everyone

+1 This needs to be stickied and so much of this forum rage will go away.

You can augment your current gear and you will have better stats than the Ascended gear.

Uhh for the Ascended ring they showed, it was +5 power, +5 precision and +3% magic find better than an exotic ring with its exotic upgrade. And this is before the additional infusion upgrade. Don’t forget that each % of magic find is equivalent to a lot more of other stats.

Now multiply that boost by all your slots.

Currently we don’t know what the infusion stats do though, do we? I might have missed that if they were leaked, but afaik they could be something as simple as an increase in percentage against agony, rather than a physical stat increase. And it’s only the rarer items that will have this anyway.

If it’s a straight up stat increase then i’ll change my stance, but if it’s purely to make the dungeon ‘easier’ (which I truly believe will be the case) then that’s ok.

edit: also they might throw some new craftable upgrades into the mix for current gear.

Even without the infusion stat increase, Ascended items are objectively better than exotic items with exotic upgrades. And not by 1 or 2 points.

I’ll be very glad if they throw in craftable upgrades for current gear. Having multiple options to attain the same tier of gear (like the current exotic system) is always good, and this would keep existing gear and existing dungeons relevant.

Absolutely – everything i’m saying atm is based on my own assumption that there will be craftable upgrades for current gear that will at the very least equal the current stat increase on the Ascended gear as shown in the comparison piece.

They just need to be 2-3 points better across the board and I think people will be appeased by this, for the most part. Especially crafters ^^

Webba.3071:

Flynch.6034:

At the risk of repeating something i’ve said in other threads, the new gear is less powerful than your normal gear as it cannot be upgraded.

Agony is also not a gating mechanic. Guys, you need to read up on how the dungeon scaling works. You can do the dungeon fine without it, but as you repeat the dungeon, Agony starts to come into play.

As you would know had you looked at the picture more closely the new gear has the upgrade stats built in and all stats are higher.

Against current available upgrades yes. There are a bunch of recipes coming out so i’m going on the assumption that some of those will add up to be greater than the Ascended stats. I just hope i’m not wrong, as i’m also in the ‘no treadmill’ camp for the most part.

axiology.5807:

Flynch.6034:

Jezath.7395:

Look…. The new gear is maybe 1 or 2 points better than the current exotic level, if yoyu check carefully the items are exotic stats with exotic upgrades already applied. the infusion will not give stat upgrades it is to counteract the agony that prevents you from delving deeper into the dungeon. So please stop all this raging everyone

+1 This needs to be stickied and so much of this forum rage will go away.

You can augment your current gear and you will have better stats than the Ascended gear.

Uhh for the Ascended ring they showed, it was +5 power, +5 precision and +3% magic find better than an exotic ring with its exotic upgrade. And this is before the additional infusion upgrade. Don’t forget that each % of magic find is equivalent to a lot more of other stats.

Now multiply that boost by all your slots.

Currently we don’t know what the infusion stats do though, do we? I might have missed that if they were leaked, but afaik they could be something as simple as an increase in percentage against agony, rather than a physical stat increase. And it’s only the rarer items that will have this anyway.

If it’s a straight up stat increase then i’ll change my stance, but if it’s purely to make the dungeon ‘easier’ (which I truly believe will be the case) then that’s ok.

edit: also they might throw some new craftable upgrades into the mix for current gear.

At the risk of repeating something i’ve said in other threads, the new gear is less powerful than your normal gear as it cannot be upgraded.

Agony is also not a gating mechanic. Guys, you need to read up on how the dungeon scaling works. You can do the dungeon fine without it, but as you repeat the dungeon, Agony starts to come into play.

Ordin.9047:

For all of those who are saying that “agony” which is obviously a rip off of dread from LoTRO isnt a big deal now, well, LoTRO players didnt think so at first either. Please dont excuse anet for this, content gating is more than the one time mission that players had to fulfill in gw1. What is going to happen, is that this gating will pervent players from getting ultra deep into the new dungeon until more ascended armor pieces are released.

No not at all – it increases the difficulty of subsequent repeated runs of the dungeon. All content is available, it just gets harder as you repeat it.

Not to mention the boat-load of possible ‘dungeons’ you get with its Fractal formula.

There is NO gating. It is simply a difficulty soft-cap, presumably to stop players burning out, grinding, or generally not being in the normal game-world.

edit: typo

Jezath.7395:

Look…. The new gear is maybe 1 or 2 points better than the current exotic level, if yoyu check carefully the items are exotic stats with exotic upgrades already applied. the infusion will not give stat upgrades it is to counteract the agony that prevents you from delving deeper into the dungeon. So please stop all this raging everyone

+1 This needs to be stickied and so much of this forum rage will go away.

You can augment your current gear and you will have better stats than the Ascended gear.

showatt.9413:

The problem is not stat of the games.

When the level cap is raised, you can bet the level 85 gears are going to be better than lvl 80s.

The problem is with the content.

Do we need this new tier of gear to access the dungeon or not?
If a certain part is restricted to those with the ascended gear, that means its a mechanic that forces you to grind. This is bad design, bad employment of gear progression used by all other traditional MMO.

If this is coming to Gw2, and all future dungeons will be created this way, with a certain part limited to people with certain gear, then you might as well go play another MMO.

Agony is a mechanic that comes into play as you repeatedly complete dungeon runs (these are also randomised) and it artificially scales the difficulty accordingly, also granting you better rewards.

So it doesn’t gate content, it’s a soft-cap really, and this cap will raise each time new gear is shipped by Anet.

It’s a great idea and for some reason it’s blowing peoples’ minds.

Stick an upgrade into the upgrade slot and you’ve already overtaken the Ascended gear stats.

Jesus christ, people.

I’ll vote once it’s shipped.

illgot.1056:

why create a whole new gear and not allow us to upgrade the gear we own?

No idea tbh, but i’m assuming that it’s because they figure people who run dungeons are the type of player who are more likely to want new gear with progression.

Although I don’t think it’s unrealistic of them to have some sort of transmutable system in place for current gear once the whole dungeon set has shipped.

Haya jii san.1978:

Dogblaster.6713:

Naoko.7096:

People are really so paranoid here. 56 pages.
Don’t worry too much. -_-

- PLEASE Read This -

They still live by their philosophy. Why can’t you guys see that?
More importantly, what are you guys afraid of?

GW2: Ascended gears are just another tier. It’s not a requirement to have it to experience any future new content X/Y/Z. You can have fun with all in-game content and dungeons with any tier equipments. You don’t need to grind to experience content X/Y/Z.

Traditional MMO: Better gears are needed to experience new contents, story in PVE and raids. Those gears are a mandatory requirement to reap the fun of the the new content X/Y/Z. Players are forced to grind just to experience newer content.

They are so different.
Yet, it ponders me why can’t people see it.

You dont get it do you, current ascendent gear will last for how long ? 3 months? year?

Then they introduce even more poverful ascendent gear so its start again. THis is not their philosophy..

Guild Wars philosophy = you obtained best gear (aka exotic) and there will never ever better gear. stat wise. Even after 7years the armor you equiped at release, was the best.

Every player was equal, WvW vs PvE players, those who dont likes dungeons had the same gear in wvw like those who runs dungeon only.
After this update, those who run dungeons and have ascendent gear, they will have advantage over those who dont, in wvw .. .DO YOU GET IT?

=> Bump this

Your assumption is that the gear is only available from the dungeon.

Yet people are also saying the dungeon is gated unless you have the gear.

Frankly – and I know no more than the rest of you – I think you’ll be able to get the gear easily enough (with some effort though) OUTSIDE of the dungeon, be it crafting, grinding or w/e, that will give you enough Agony-resist to carry you for a few more scaled runs. By the time you’re sorted and burnt-out on those runs, Anet will release more gear that has more Agony-resist and again a slight bump in stats, and you can then go further with the scaled dungeons.

This, to me, sounds perfectly legitimate and does not put PvPers at a disadvantage, nor does it force people into a treadmill unless they genuinely see the stat increase as massively beneficial, then they are more than welcome to grind or pay for the gear which probably won’t have the same sort of stats you’d want anyway.

nachtnebel.9168:

Flynch.6034:

nachtnebel.9168:

Flynch.6034:

yarpen.1364:

OMG PPL
its not better buy “3 precision”. Its better buy 8%. Its a lot.
Second if they intruduce ascended armors = armors get more defense. New weapons = more weapon damage. Better stats are making those difference even higher.

Its like rare vs exotic. Only a moron can tell that there is no difference at all.

Currently players are able to complete ALL content in the game without using Exotics. Exotics just make life slightly easier. This is not the definition of a requirement, it is the definition of player choice. This will be the same.

edit: regards to outside the dungeon that is. Inside of the dungeon, stats will be meaningless as we’re all going to be in different gear anyway, just with 1 or 2 items the same, at the start.

Read the blog post: You won’t be able to clear the new dungeon unless you have Ascended Gear.

In addition: No mechanic needs better gear, everything you can think of can be done with exotics, we don’t need higher stats to make new mechanics work. Higher stats only allow higher numbers, that’s all.

It’s an artificial way of increasing and scaling difficulty across the multiple (unlimited) runs. The stats will be the same, they can’t simply incrementally change the mobs on the fly as that’s harder to balance than having one single mechanic that affects everyone equally. The stat increase can be taken or left. It’s negligible.

I read the blog post – it’s clear to me that the first run will probably not even require the Agony-resists, and that the new gear is a requirement after the first few scaled runs. Else they’d give us a whole set straight off the bat.

It depends on how you define “run”. For me a “run” incluedes completing everything in the dungeons, and, as they told us, this won’t be possible unless you have Ascended Gear and Infusions. This wouldn’t be a problem if you would get those gear automatically just by doing the dungoen, as I mentioned above. But since you will have to grind for it, it really sucks and breaks one of Arena Nets basic promises.

In a nutshell: They kittened it up and pissed of a lot of their most faithful fans. But they still have time to change that.

This is from mmorpg.com so make of it what you will. But it says that you are able to complete runs just as you would any normal dungeon, but after that, they scale in difficulty.

Once people understand this, then they will see how Agony truly works and how it is not a gate for entry, it is simply a way of artifically increasing difficulty.

quote follows:

The ‘Fractals of the Mist’ dungeon is a result of all the lessons ArenaNet has learned from developing the game’s initial dungeon offerings as well as the feedback they’ve received from players on dungeon content since launch. Players will enter the Fractals of the Mist dungeon via a central hub that will feature an assortment of amenities such as repair NPCs and other merchants. Once players have gathered their party members, they will be launched into one of the nine ‘fractals’ that will be randomly selected for each group.

Each fractal’s experience will be similar to that of the various mini-dungeons littered throughout the open world of Guild Wars 2. These fractals will feature a variety of challenges, puzzles, and boss fights, with an emphasis placed on use of the environment.

Players can expect each fractal to take anywhere from 15 to 40 minutes to complete and the game will throw you through a series of three fractals, from one to the next, before returning you to town. Every other set of three fractals that players complete will initiate a special boss fight along the lines of Tequatl the Sunless or The Shatterer.

Once players return to town, future entries into the dungeon will scale to become harder than the last. The amount of enemies players will face will increase as will their health and damage, for example. Of course, you can also expect commensurate rewards for completing harder versions of the dungeon.

Speaking of rewards, the Fractals of the Mist Dungeon will introduce the new ‘Ascended’ item type. This type is a bit more powerful than the Exotic quality items currently found in the game. There will only be a couple of Ascended quality items available initially, but some of the rarer Ascended items will also feature a new Infusion slot that will make players even more powerful so that they can tackle new challenges that ArenaNet plans to throw at them as they continue to expand on the dungeon over the coming months and years.

yarpen.1364:

Flynch.6034:

yarpen.1364:

OMG PPL
its not better buy “3 precision”. Its better buy 8%. Its a lot.
Second if they intruduce ascended armors = armors get more defense. New weapons = more weapon damage. Better stats are making those difference even higher.

Its like rare vs exotic. Only a moron can tell that there is no difference at all.

Currently players are able to complete ALL content in the game without using Exotics. Exotics just make life slightly easier. This is not the definition of a requirement, it is the definition of player choice. This will be the same.

no
On wvwvw 5% more damage is huge difference. It can mean that your oponent get down or survive and use heal. On pve imo exotics are just waste of time because of this change? It’s probably better to stick with rares ->skip exotic part -> get ascended.
But for wvwvw this is just bad change.

Also anet said that ppl are getting legend too fast. But it’s because 95% of mats needed for legend can be bough with just gold.
For now I can get legendary in maybe a weak. Just need to spend a lot of real money to get gold to boy all those mats, precursos and lodestones. Than do 100% map, get some gift from dungeon and thats all.
Without using real money it’s just pointless. It would take ages for me to get 400 gold for precursor. But anet made it that way.

You’re assuming that only a select few players will have access to this 5% increase because you’re assuming the gear can only be acquired inside a dungeon. It’s the old ‘PvE affecting PvP’ complaint, only it’s completely broken as the gear will be readily available to anyone. 5% across the board for all players is the same as 0%.

If the gear was gem purchasable only then you’d have a point, or if it was only available inside the dungeon. But it won’t be.

nachtnebel.9168:

Flynch.6034:

yarpen.1364:

OMG PPL
its not better buy “3 precision”. Its better buy 8%. Its a lot.
Second if they intruduce ascended armors = armors get more defense. New weapons = more weapon damage. Better stats are making those difference even higher.

Its like rare vs exotic. Only a moron can tell that there is no difference at all.

Currently players are able to complete ALL content in the game without using Exotics. Exotics just make life slightly easier. This is not the definition of a requirement, it is the definition of player choice. This will be the same.

edit: regards to outside the dungeon that is. Inside of the dungeon, stats will be meaningless as we’re all going to be in different gear anyway, just with 1 or 2 items the same, at the start.

Read the blog post: You won’t be able to clear the new dungeon unless you have Ascended Gear.

In addition: No mechanic needs better gear, everything you can think of can be done with exotics, we don’t need higher stats to make new mechanics work. Higher stats only allow higher numbers, that’s all.

It’s an artificial way of increasing and scaling difficulty across the multiple (unlimited) runs. The stats will be the same, they can’t simply incrementally change the mobs on the fly as that’s harder to balance than having one single mechanic that affects everyone equally. The stat increase can be taken or left. It’s negligible.

I read the blog post – it’s clear to me that the first run will probably not even require the Agony-resists, and that the new gear is a requirement after the first few scaled runs. Else they’d give us a whole set straight off the bat.

yarpen.1364:

OMG PPL
its not better buy “3 precision”. Its better buy 8%. Its a lot.
Second if they intruduce ascended armors = armors get more defense. New weapons = more weapon damage. Better stats are making those difference even higher.

Its like rare vs exotic. Only a moron can tell that there is no difference at all.

Currently players are able to complete ALL content in the game without using Exotics. Exotics just make life slightly easier. This is not the definition of a requirement, it is the definition of player choice. This will be the same.

edit: regards to outside the dungeon that is. Inside of the dungeon, stats will be meaningless as we’re all going to be in different gear anyway, just with 1 or 2 items the same, at the start.

Transit.4158:

Myrrdhinn.5627:

I usually respect everyone’s opinion and don’t involve myself into such argument, but I hate to see this..

Stop whining.. seriously!
You don’t have to get the Ascended armor set unless you want to play the new dungeon. It’ll basically gives better protection against the new game mechanic.
It ‘ll slightly powerful than exotic yes, but guess what, I don’t have full exotic set and I don’t have a single problem with dungeons, WvW whatsoever.

So.. you making yourselves the problem. If you don’t want it you don’t get it. It’s that simple. If you don’t like the new dungeon, you don’t go in there. You won’t miss on anything.

So.. you making yourselves the problem. If you don’t want it you don’t get it. It’s that simple. If you don’t like the new dungeon, you don’t go in there. You won’t miss on anything.Duh…

So locking people who don’t want to grind out of content is now a good thing?

To be honest we have no idea at what point the Agony mechanic kicks in. It’s there to ramp up the difficulty once you’ve gone through the dungeon the first time. I suspect the actual usefulness of the Agony-resist armour will only be called into effect on the 2nd or 3rd ‘run’ and at that point you’ll most likely be seeing only a small percentage of players going further than the 2nd run anyway.

It’s only gating you if the equipment is extremely hard or long-winded to get. It’s only 2 pieces of gear at the moment, and considering it’s stat and not aesthetic based, Anet will make it widely available so that everyone can have a shot at the Dungeon anyway.

Why create a cool conceptual dungeon with an interesting mechanic and then gate it from the start? No sane person would.

LadyRhonwyn.2501:

Flynch.6034:

Question is – would there have been this uproar had they released the dungeon and the related armour at launch, alongside the other tiered armour?

Or is it the possibility of it being a trend by Anet that is worrying people so much?

For me, it’s the trend. They also did this with the exotics, and now they’re repeating it again. And who says it’ll be the last time? Can we trust them now, when they say it’s the last time?

What did they say about the exotics last time? I didn’t catch that, but currently for me anyway, i’m going to give them the benefit of the doubt. I’m against having the treadmill in GW2 but I do understand the necessity for new content and that also means new gear.

It actually appears that the dungeon will not have an Agony cap anyway as it seems to scale indefinitely, so the new gear will only be useful up to a point anyway.

Question is – would there have been this uproar had they released the dungeon and the related armour at launch, alongside the other tiered armour?

Or is it the possibility of it being a trend by Anet that is worrying people so much?

Ichishi.9613:

They clearly stated you are not completing new dungeon without new gear

It looks like it’s not possible to ‘complete’ the dungeon with or with out it – as it scales indefinitely.

Seems fine by me. We already have gear progression. This is just another smaller step up the ladder.

They are releasing the gear slowly and steadily, so it’s obviously meant for seriously, SERIOUSLY, deep into the dungeon, else you’d have a requirement for an entire set in the first week.

They have already been honest about their realisation that it’s a departure from the norm. But this is more of a lateral departure. We can scream bloody murder once they stick another tier into the game in a year. But til then, enjoy the dungeon, enjoy the new gear and stop worrying so much.

Just because something has been done poorly somewhere else, doesn’t mean that the mechanic is a bust from the beginning.

lordkrall.7241:

Flynch.6034:

This is a fair and valid point, and i’m one of the lucky ones who lives in Europe. I’d suggest having 2 time-slots for the event that covers the two separate ‘zones’ and not worry about Youtube or anything else cheesing the users’ experience. It’s up to the user if they want to have the event spoiled by a video.

Theoretically if you have 2 events, one at the current time, and another that is far nicer to the other less fortunate (time-wise) folks, there won’t be much overlap as they are roughly 12 hours apart anyway.

Keep in mind however that even if we are one of the “lucky ones who lives in Europe” we most likely won’t be able to complete the whole event chain (if we have work) seeing as the first part starts at around 21:00 in the evening and is going on for “several hours”.

As for the suggestion at hand I am not sure if that is even possible in the game. As far as we know they can’t have two different version of the world map at the same time.

Yes I do agree that the timing is awkward – I have a very very early start for work so most likely i’ll only be able to complete a portion of the event.

As for the time-slot idea, it wasn’t so much that there would be two separate entities for each event, but moreover, one event would start at 21:00 UK time, and the other would start at 09:00 UK time. This means a lot more people will be able to enjoy it in differing timezones without a major risk of players repeating the event. There will always be some 24/7 players who will get to see it twice, but i’d say that’s a decent price to pay to have an even greater number enjoy it in the first place.