Guild Wars 2

Seras.5702:

I thought clones didn’t overwrite phantasms. I’m new to mesmer but I thought I read that. If that is in fact the case, am I supposed to shatter then use Staff#2 so that I can at least get some benefit from my illusion before I overwrite him?

Clones can only overwrite a 3rd phantasm. If you only have 1-2 phants up, a new clone will overwrite your oldest clone instead.

What Esplen said.

Full DPS is also good, but the combination of DPS and massive utility is what makes mesmers outstanding in dungeons. One mesmer and one guardian or engi (or engi + guardian for that matter) that know what they are doing in the same group can make any dungeon a joke.

Anymras.5729:

I’m not sure why you’re placing emphasis on the weapon choice – if it’s something about “Guns should deal more damage, look at the real world,” I’m going to have to point out that, if this were the case, guns would deal more damage than most weapons in the game, leaving them terribly unbalanced. I’ll just hope it’s not that.

Pfft. I’d simply point out that guns represented in this game would do more damage than any other weapon in the game, but take 25-40s to reload while doing nothing else. Heh, you could fire your pistol, do a whopping amount of damage (if you don’t miss or jam), then self daze yourself for half a minute before the next shot.

Punkins.2087:

I dont get why auto attack is such a big deal.. are you guys sitting in one kit, waiting on cooldowns?? If yes.. ugh.

As others have said, grenades are our best (and only viable) long-range aoe attack for wvw zergs, and big pve events. Those situations often cause skill lag, which makes the GT function miserable and unreliable for a spam skill like an auto attack. For the life of me, I can’t understand how anyone thought up the idea to make ground targeted, hand thrown grenades the longest range option.

Now despite that, I like the GT option, but it really should be a 900 range weapon max, and a less cumbersome, target focused option should be used for long range dps where skill lag is common.

Oh, my 3 (reasonable) changes:

1: More durable turrets.
2: Lower CD for gadgets (maybe a few reworks/other number tweaks).
3: More DPS for FT.

My top 3 dream list (that will never happen):

1: True long range rifle skills with proper aiming animation (current rifles skills, with Hip Shot reworked into a short-range , higher damage skill, should go to a “cannister gun” or “shotgun” kit). Reduce grenade range.
2: A way to use both the rifle and pistols/shield as a kit selection (would require better weapon damage).
3: A rocket hammer!

theCOREYCOLAK.5698:

Pyroatheist.9031:

the phantasm build has a very high skill cap

lol. I look forward to you “ripping me apart”. “Very high skill cap” ahahah oh my. Sorry. But popping an iDefender, couple iDuelists and then not dying is NOT very hard at all

Ahh… I think I see where you are coming from now. Hate to break it to you, but that’s the floor for phant mesmers (which I agree is enough against most average players), but nowhere near the cap. No wonder you think phantasm builds are inferior at higher skill levels. If that’s your understanding of the skill cap for phant builds, you’re barely getting off the ground with understanding the finer details.

The cap is more about reading your opponent’s build, tracking their CDs, and anticipating actions to avoid blinds and bursts; much more than shatter builds anyway. You seem to understand the burst mechanics of shatters fairly well, but unlike burst builds, the finer points of phantasm mesmers is much more about managing skill resources on both sides over inconsistent periods of time than mobility/utility for survival and then popping skill rotations for big bursts. That’s why it’s a high cap, but extremely devastating when done right.

A skilled player of any class will rip apart your simple skill popping phantasm mesmer, but once you break down their counters and elevate to a higher level of play, the phantasms simply become too much to handle, even for an equally skilled player. That’s the point some phantasm build experts are trying to bring home to you.

theCOREYCOLAK.5698:

Much more survivability, utility, and in combat mobility than a phantasm mesmer. Don’t assume that everyone the same cookie cutter shatter builds

Take your own advice. Don’t assume everyone plays the same cookie cutter phantasm builds.

JubeiTM.5763:

2) The poison dart is 4000 damage every 13 seconds (sctual shot+recharge) with only 2 seconds of Poison (Here you go. ). The rifle is 2000 damage every 0.75 Seconds. The Rifle shots pierce. This being said, with a Berserker build a rifle does three times the damage.

You do realize its 2s per dart right? At 5 darts that’s 10s of reduced healing, not 2. ~75% uptime is pretty kitten good for both bosses and pvp.

@kovah:
The single mantra is fine with all the stealth the build provides, but it will take a little practice to get used to it. You can usually charge the mantra in stealth or after a good blink. It also provides high swiftness uptime so you can be where you need to when you need to be there, especially with Blink as well. That said, any time I switch out my torch, I usually switch to Ether Feast.

To avoid/escape lockdowns, stun breakers (and stealth in my build) are key, especially Blink (Phase Retreat works great too). Use 1-2 evasive skills or dodges early when everyone is spamming CCs and high damage/high CD skills to down you. You can live a lot longer vs auto attacks than 20s nukes. Just make sure to keep a stun breaker or distortion in reserve.

And here’s a tip for Blink, don’t port directly away from your foe; port behind them or right on top of them! It will often give you a few to several extra seconds to heal up, set up a burst, or make them panic and blow CDS before they locate you. Same goes for stealth: pop stealth, swiftness if you need it, get behind/on top of them.

The link in my sig was built for an all around wvw build, and it works great anywhere. Haven’t found a better solo/small group build for me, that still does well in large groups.

Best use for zergs is either on the fringes harassing and breaking up the masses with torch or group support using staff and focus. Does OK at tagging/DPS with GS, but I find staff or torch better for the mobility/stealth when things go south. You shouldn’t have any problems with solo/small groups at all.

Right now you are either stuck with using focus, centaur runes, or finger aerobic, camera jerking sillyness with the staff’s #2 skill, sword #3, and blink.

Focus is decent with a boon duration build, but any other option is a bit little ridiculous for the investment required. Not everyone want to use a focus, and so movement speed is a well-known issue for mesmers that many of us hope will get addressed by the devs.

How about a trap that…
…prevents all summons for 30s?
…disables all teleports for 30s?
…triggers all virtues not on CD within 2000 units?
…deals 10K damage if you have a staff stowed in your inventory?
…dispels all skill effects within the word “dark” in its tooltip within 20000 units?
…prevents carrying a bundle for 30s? (Die, engi! DIE!)
…prevents gaining adrenaline for 30s?
…destroys all equipped bows?
…disables all shout skills for 30s?
…disables commander tag for 30 minutes?
or
…prevents you from playing an asura for 300hrs? (floppy eared rodents )

This is fun. I’m gonna pop some traps. Only got 20k badges in my stash…

Rocket Boots should just propel you in the direction you are moving with no self CC (straight back when not moving).

The tooltip says confuse because the skill applied confusion during beta. Anet is horribly negligent when it comes to updating tooltips.

@Fadeaway: You forgot the Mantra, which provides more dazes than the rest of the build combined (except if MB bounces).

It’s a solid tactic in duels/small group play. In larger groups it kinda loses effectiveness, and you really need to coordinate your targets in team chat. Fairly worthless in zergs unless you can find and target the commander and bring him down.

luckywaldo.6089:

Damage is math. It is kind of stupid to form opinions on math solutions as an alternative to actually working them out.

That’s why his post is not just about damage; its about being able to achieve that damage versus the skill required. The skill required is the subjective part that requires you to formulate an opinion.

WIGZ.8245:

Everybody else
————————————————-
Damage for every other class: hit multiple keys, even auto attacks to do good damage.
Escape mechanism: Use specific gap closing mechanism to get some distance.

You have obviously not played a mesmer.

Update (5/3/13):

I changed the scepter and torch from CD stats to power stats due to the confusion nerf. Other than that, there were no negative impacts, and I still consider it to be an excellent build since it never relied on condition damage anyway. Actually the buff to mantras improved the heal and MoP. I’ll do some further testing this weekend to be sure no stealth nerfs or buffs to other classes impede success.

You gotta be kidding me.

I was silently hoping for scepter or torch buffs to offset the confusion nerf on already UP weapons. Guess I shouldn’t be surprised, but what a missed opportunity for badly needed attention.

Carighan.6758:

Oh, #2 and #3 on the Sceptre are plenty strong. The only issue is in it’s horribly slow #1 chain. Even the secondary effect is arguably ok, if the whole thing wasn’t so slow. :S

Yup. You got it nailed right there. Scepter can be good, but you have to have the right build and play strategy for it (i.e. switch to it only when you want to unleash a combo with #2 or #3, and not not rely on its auto attack). The main reason people think it’s trash is because it’s actually better in a power build, but people treat it only as a condition weapon.

Scepter will never hold its own without niche build support until its auto attack flaws are addressed.

Build in my sig link uses sw/sw. Works great for solo/small group and harassing the fringes of a zerg. If you throw in a GS as your secondary you can tag or siege defense; a staff lets you zerg support quite well due to the points in Inspiration and Chaos.

Lord Aargadon.4135:

“Hello, my profession is Engineer. You nerfed my build. Prepare to die.” ~ The Princess Bride

^ This one actually made me LOL.

Disgruntled Engineer Player: “There’s something very important I forgot to tell you.”

Anet: “What?”

DEP: “Don’t nerf the engineer.”

Anet: “Why?”

DEP: “It would be bad.”

Anet: “We’re fuzzy on the whole good, bad thing. What do you mean by bad?”

DEP: “Try to imaging all play as you know it stopping instantaneously and every server in your system exploding at the proc of 100 ’nades.”

NCSoft: “Total revenue reversal.”

Anet: “OK. That’s bad.”

- Ghostbusters (1984)

The above posters pretty much have it right, but there are several things you can do to make the scepter work for some builds despite its flaws. The auto chain is severely flawed, but #3 has a place in a confusion build, and both #2 and #3 can be devastating in the right power/hybrid builds. Enough to make up for the abysmal auto with enough practice.

For specific tips, and how I found ways to make it work, check out the build link in my sig. It has a weapon guild that includes strategies for using scepter with stealth.

I’d say use sword/focus and either GS or staff depending on whether you want more offense or defense, respectively.

The focus goes a long way to helping our speed issues at lower levels and it takes a bit of practice to master, so you need to spend some time with it. Going through the leveling process is a good opportunity for that. Plus, once you master the fcous, nothing in the game does more damage for a mesmer than a focus#5 → sword#2 → f1 combo.

Despite the name Deceptive Eevasion was never used by any competent mesmer for deception. It was only to generate more clones. Blink, stealth, and LOS (real LOS, not game LOS) are used for deception. The sooner you realize that, the sooner you understand the trait.

How does a necro not have LoS to himself?

Funny. I see more guardians and eles than anything else. Then thieves and mes. 4 out of 8 seems middle of the road to me. Hardly dominance.

Cool build. I would definitely recommend Master of Manipulation over iDefense, tho. Comes in handy at all times and can be used for escape or quick shatter from 900 range, not just when you choose not to shatter in a… umm … shatter build.

Sebrent.3625:

This image should be all the reason you need to be a Norn mesmer:

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT_nRqz1yyb1pkZ2W67UC2GCMx4rBEwsNBaxTdF9pZVehtGl5Xl

LOL!

Keeping phantasms alive is all about placement. Make sure you put them in protected areas/corners. For the few melee-ish phants (swordsman, defender, and zerker), you can cover them with fields and they generally have some survival from moving, too.

Besides, if they take the hit, you usually don’t. The swordsman, duelist, and warlock are usually the easiest to keep up due to short CDs when traited, and the leap for the swordsman helps offset his melee attack. Warden, too, but he doesn’t move so he’s often shatter fodder or a safe zone after the first attack except against certain bosses.

You will have a slightly easier time with an asura. Better racials (though they are not really needed) and smaller size for JP.

But charr are infinitely cooler.

How did you not find the swordsman better on dummies? He does a ton of damage to structures.

I tested all the phants a few weeks a ago and the swordsman was the clear winner for most fights. The warlock catches up only when you have a about 4-5 conditions on the target. So the swordsman is generally better for solo fights where you don’t have anyone helping you keep conditions up. Warlock is better for group fights and events.

BTW: The zerker is best for structures when you can get him to spin in place, with the warden a fair second.

I have 3:

1) Knights/Soldiers/Valk/Berserk/Celestial mix for the Lone Wolf build.
2) Rabid for glamour and con builds.
3) Explorers for pve open world and events.

My weapons are spread out for their use. See the build link in my sig to see what they are.

How did you not find Inspiration versatile? It forms such a strong foundation for phantasm and support builds and provides some really neat tools for mantra, tank, and glamour builds. Just about the only thing it doesn’t do are shatter builds and straight condition builds.

Take a look at the Lone Wolf build linked in my sig. I consider it the epitome of mesmer versatility, and you can find some tips to make yourself more versatile with a few minor tweaks.

If you really want to stay shatter, check out Osi’s mist build. A few of Seven’s builds are great anywhere, too, and the Immortal build is fantastic for just about anything in wvw, but the damage suffers in pve.

EDIT: D’oh! Ninja’d by Osi, that sly cat.

@Delofakitten:
Yeah, the versatility for this build, and similar builds, is what makes it so attractive. I am convinced it is primarily due to the range of traits available in the Inspiration line. Also, MH sword and focus are very powerful weapons with a ton of utility so they each have a place in my build. The fact that you can trait both is a huge bonus.

I tried to use my personal playstyle and my experience with the scepter and torch to give it a little something new, and it really payed off. It works great for how I use it most (roaming and getting jumped in wvw) and can play rather well in other situations with a few minor tweaks.

A new tactic I developed since the March patch is too blink or stealth myself right behind a target on the fringe of the fight, and line up a shot to catch a few attackers in the CI path. Making a jump like that really confuses other players, and the CI just rips them up before they even know where you are. A lot of times they panic and start blowing skills, too.

I play the build in my sig link most of the time, since it’s so versatile, and I can move around and do the most with it. The trait lines are set up so you can do a few things, but at its core it’s a phantasm tank/survival build.

Occasionally when running with a zerg I strap on my CD gear and retrain for glamours, too. All those bags are just too inviting when cash runs low.

Thanks, Ferawyn. Glad you like it.

Yeah, a lot players only see scepter as a condition weapon, but only #3 is any good for most of those builds, and the auto does little to sustain any condition pressure. However, all 3 skills scale pretty well with power, especially #2.

Being able to run 2 off hand weapons was key to developing this build along with finding a good defensive setup without using the staff. For that reason, and the good amount of stealth, it owns thieves and other GC builds. No matter what set you are locked into at the time, you can use a block to setup a nasty counter. Sw/sw? Riposte→iLeap/Swap→BF/MW = dead thief. Sc/t? Counter→CI→MW = dead thief.

Esplen.3940:

@snip

As you said, leveling and tagging might be easier for asura, but this topic is about the class, not just asuran mesmers. I am charr and I admit I didn’t have much trouble leveling either. Maybe a little slower than my warrior and some trouble in the 30s, but I did mesmer first so I knew more for my alts. But it is a common complaint new users have for the class, so I listed it. shrug

As for supply runs, focus and TPs help a lot, but focus provides <50% uptime for most builds. Yeah, builds with Chaos or other boon duration bonuses can do it better, but building for mobility is objectively much more expensive for mesmers than most classes, and runes are bit much to expect for someone to have on hand at any time.

Traveling in PVE is not as much of a problem due to the WPs, and in new areas you are mostly exploring. But when the call goes out for everyone to defend a tower across the map in wvw, you will know the pain when you race there and find the fight over.

Mesmer are a very versatile class and can do a lot, but remember no mesmer can do all of them at the same time. You have to focus your build to be good at your role.

And there are a few roles we struggle with. Leveling 1-40 in PVE, tagging in PVE, roles that require mobility outside of sPVP (supply runs, chasing, etc.), and sieging are principal among them. Bunkering is not one of them. There are actually at least 2 really good bunker builds for us out there.

Condition removal isn’t as good as most other classes, but can be done if specced right, you just have to build for it a little more than others.

Scepter #2 (and sword #4) actually provide a deceptively decent defense. When you block, it takes a almost a second for the evade animation when creating your clone giving you more time than the skill implies to escape AOEs, and multi-hit attacks will often miss because the skill moves you.

Don’t underestimate it. The block + return damage + quick evade + displacement can save your kitten

Heh, masks look good on nobody. Mayyyyybe female human, but only for town clothes at a Halloween ball/party. But you’re right about charr mesmers being out of place.That’s why they are the best at deception! To quote, umm, myself:

Gaiawolf.8261:

The greatest trick a charr mesmer ever pulled was making the forums think he didn’t exist … and just like that (Blink) he was gone.

I like warrior because it give me a chance to switch up my playstyle and weapon choices. It also allows me to play on my work PC, since the button mashing is simpler. Since you are not bored with mesmer and may not desire a simpler way to play, that might not work for you.

So I suggest going with a character that can give you weapon choices you don’t get with mesmer. Warrior works here, too, but engineer is also good because he gets stuff nobody else can. Ele and engi can also be as complex as mesmer if you like the challenge, and engi has guns, lots of guns!

@Rafiee:
Phantasmal Warden is the focus phantasm on skill #5. It whirls axes around doing more damage than any other phant in an AOE. Some don’t like it because it doesn’t move, but neither do mobs. Just draw mobs into it and watch them die.

When you get better at using the focus, you can pull mobs (and players) into the warden with Temporal Curtain->Void combo. Warden also absorbs (reflects when traited) all projectiles, making for great defense against ranged, too.

Sword/focus and swap in a staff for when you need more D or a GS for a little extra DPS. Just go power/crit while leveling.

Traits: 5 in illusions, rest in Domination or Dueling until level 40. Then put 20 into Dueling for Deceptive Evasion.

Edit: Oh yeah, for utilities, get Decoy first. Feedback is awesome in PVE, well just about anywhere, too.

By then you can start finding the right build/playstyle for you.

No weapon combo can match sword/focus in pve, especially while leveling. Focus is the only access we have to reliable run speed below level 60, plus nothing does more damage than a warden/BF/MW combo. Round up kite all the trash mobs around and set it up = end of battle.

For vets, champs, and bosses, just repeat the cycle while switching to GS (or staff if you need D) for interim DPS. Once you start doing dungeons, you can mix it up a bit and get into more specific builds.

@Sebrent:
My charr uses HOTW armor for just that. Players don’t expect charr mesmers either, so it works great until I explode all over them in purple butterflies.

Now if only we can get our GS to hover.

ski.4927:

@Holy Devastation…

I am confused by what it is you are looking for here. How is a 1v1 fight in sPvP more challenging and skillful that a 1v1 fight in WvW. You said that food buff gives a disadvantage, but the person I’m fighting also has a food buff. So, we are still on equal ground.

What is it you are looking for?

Not necessarily. A lot of nameless foes you find in wvw and wvw vids are upleveled with no food buffs. And there is no way to tell if they are wearing all exotics/ascended or not.

Illusions do not inherit +duration.

@Swim:
No, not really. Our survival can be great depending on your build, but those builds already have swiftness and/or stealth beyond what any signet would offer.

As for mobility, our class options for mobility are great, but localized only to combat and sPVP. The proposed options in this thread would do stark little for our combat and sPVP mobility, but would greatly help us keep up while traveling in WVW and PVE, which a) is hardly a balance issue, and b) is, again, already obtained by those willing to stretch for it.

The problem is we are forced to stretch so much more for something that isn’t a balance issue in the first place.

EDIT: Remember run speed ONLY affects forward movement, which means escaping, chasing down, and gap closing. Even without building for it, we can escape easily with stealth and other tactics. Chasing is a known issue for mesmers, and the sigent would do little against classes we can’t catch anyway, because they all have the same signet and better. And our close range weapons already have gap closers built in on 5 and 7s CDs (traited) anyway.

Swim.6830:

As an ex-mesmer, considering all the teleports, evasion and invlulnerability I have to say NO. This is simply not needed and if added would be simply imbalanced.

Apparently you drank the wrong kool-aid. What do evasion and invulnerability have to do with out of combat traveling speed?

HAHA! Good points, Advent, but posters still complain about shatter damage. Hopefully, the re-balancing of lesser builds will lessen spotlight on shatters before any nerf bats start to swing at it.

Sadly, I think it will be a long time, maybe never, before class bugs get their due attention. Likely Anet will continue to address them at their current pace and efficiency in favor of ever more new PVE content.