Guild Wars 2

Oh, that is too cool. I will definitely give it whirl.

Pyroatheist.9031:

Gaiawolf.8261:

Master of Timespace.2548:

… Considering scepter is only useful if you are running a condition spec, the damage it deals is also very low…

Actually I’d argue the scepter is better in a power build than a condition build. The power scaling for skills 2 and 3 are pretty good and can do some decent damage in a power build while offering some defense and confusion as a control against better players. Now that is not to say other weapons aren’t better, but scepter does have a place in a tanky power spec if it’s other issues can be worked out (mainly the auto chain and cast time for #3).

That’s actually a good point. Scepter can’t decide if it wants to do conditions or power, and it just ends up being really really bad at everything. Another problem with scepter is really a problem with confusion, where confusion is useless by itself. It can’t be used as a stand-alone condition unless you are fighting an idiot. Condition is reay powerful when you force people to take hits, either from power shatters or from other conditions and pressure you apply.

Scepter only can apply confusion. It can’t put any damage pressure on an opponent. I is just all around useless.

Pretty much. Personally I think every weapon should be useful in both power and conditions builds. Not just one or the other. Staff, MH sword, and focus do that well. The others, not so much. Maybe pistol.

Pyroatheist.9031:

Now about the torch. People say that the prestige is great for escaping or w/e. They are right. The problem is that if you are escaping, you are escaping FROM something, and you were fighting that something with a torch. As an in-combat stealth, the prestige is bad. You have to channel it. If you dodge, you lose both your stealth and the burn. Why they didn’t keep it how it was in beta is beyond me.

Masteroftimespace is right on the money as well. Torch 5 summons a clone on a 30s cooldown.

Bah. The Prestige is OK at best for escaping, and there are better ways to do it. But you are forgetting on thing about in combat stealth as a mesmer. Any target drop with clones out is awesome. Pure awesome. It doesn’t matter if it lasts 1s or 3s. The time it takes for a player to find you, re-target you, and attack you is worth more than any other defense when you blast out of stealth on top of them or maybe 1-2 of your clones (except maybe in your retaliation build; which I love BTW). And the prestige is our stealth with the lowest CD so it can do that the best multiple times per fight. I agree it was much better in beta though, but still great because of the target drop.

iMage sucks and is the only thing making me snuff my torch every now and then.

Master of Timespace.2548:

… Considering scepter is only useful if you are running a condition spec, the damage it deals is also very low…

Actually I’d argue the scepter is better in a power build than a condition build. The power scaling for skills 2 and 3 are pretty good and can do some decent damage in a power build while offering some defense and confusion as a control against better players. Now that is not to say other weapons aren’t better, but scepter does have a place in a tanky power spec if it’s other issues can be worked out (mainly the auto chain and cast time for #3).

Pyroatheist.9031:

Ok, there’s a couple of conversations going on here. Easiest first.

@Fay: you seem to be getting hung up on the difference between harder and better. It is harder to play a Mesmer better, but a Mesmer can be better than any other class if you are good enough.

You keep mentioning traits that are poorly placed, or utilities that are bad. Other than 1 signet, mantras, and mantra traits, I’m curious as to what these traits and utilities are.

Here’s a start. https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Underutilized-Utility-Skill-Survey/first

Of course everyone has their own opinion, and some examples are situational to certain builds/players, but this is a good place to start looking at which utilities people find underwhelming and why. Some of the reasons for lower general ratings/uses are pretty dead on. I haven’t seen a similar conversation for traits, yet.

@Kahziel:
Sorry but that doesn’t make much sense. I’m pretty sure when someone asks if you want to “have some cake,” they don’t expect you to hold on to it without ever eating it. I’ll stick to “having” cake by eating it, thank you.

@Buffalo:
I like some of the ideas there, particularly loweing the cast times as you get hit, but I fear passive effects would step on the toes of signets too much. I have also entertained the idea of charging a mantra having some effect though.

EasymodeX.4062:

Edit:

On the other hand, Scepter is amazing before level 7.

Lol! Seriously.

Kazhiel.8194:

Can’t have your cake and eat it too.

Well then what do you expect me to do with it? That’s why you bake it in the first place. That’s like saying I can’t charge my mantras and expend them, too. They don’t do anything unless you charge them first.

There are plenty of subpar skills and traits ( all classes do), and we have plenty of posts outlining them. I don’t think it’s too much to ask to buff some underused abilities to promote build diversity.

My opinion on scepter? All the skills could use some work.

#1: First thing that needs to happen is disconnecting the attack rate from the animation and make it a true ranged weapon. Some form of condition in the chain would help too so the clones are more than just shatter fodder. Weakness is a good candidate.

#2: A solid skill but it could be just a bit more responsive and Counterspell’s projectile a bit faster.

#3: Way too telegraphed and easy to dodge. Get rid of the startup animation, and as our only single target weapon, it could use just a bit more damage through an extra/faster tick in the animation.

Since we can’t have a scepter conversation without torch, The Prestige is a great target drop, which is often the best defence when outnumbered, esp in a game of clones. Still itcould use a buff to its former glory (1s cast, 3 s stealth, 20 s cd). Might even make iMage worth it, which seriously needs a buff and a lower cd.

@pyro:
Haha! Nonono. Stealth won’t shore up all the casting for a full mantra build. I wasn’t even considering that. If I run mantras, its only 1-2 at a time, and then stealth does a very good job hiding me for almost all of the cast time while vulnerable.

The only thing that irks me with Anet’s policy for handling wvwvw issues (and the persitent class bugs) is the massive amount of new PVE released. I wish they would pull their resources and nail down the issues with existing game modes before releasing so much new content.

Back in September Anet said ~30% of the player base was playing wvwvw. Based on the released content, do you think wvwvw has received even close to 30% of Anet’s attention? I don’t.

While most mantras are rightfully underused in most circumstances, and reliant on traits, it’s not a total wash. The traits being spread out in different lines does mean you can pick up one or 2 and make them useful without having to build for them (though EM/HM as GM traits is a bit harsh). The notable front runner is RM, which is great in any sort of support or tanky build and makes MoRecovery a better heal than any other as long as you can recharge it.

Which brings me to my other point: The other thing players seem to overlook is the synergy between stealth and mantras. Stealth offers you just enough invis to charge up a mantra, and to get the most benefit of stealth you cannot attack during that time anyway. Daze also offers a similar synergy, though it’s often better to use that to press an offensive attack if you are able, but it’s just as good for some breathing room, too.

TL;DR: While mantras are usually underwhelming w/o traits, it’s not always difficult to pick one of these traits up and make mantras useful. And even w/o traits they can be MUCH less clunky, and thus way more reliable, with stealth, and maybe dazes.

Bllade.1029:

Gaiawolf.8261:

And therein lies the problem. It shouldn’t take skill and experience just to match a player because he chose a certain class. That’s not balanced. OK, bad thieves are an exception, but average thief players nigh instant killing all but good players is what we have right now, and its not good.

I’m not saying give these thief skills hard nerfs that will reduce their efficiency in the hands of good players, but I would like to see these devastating combos require quite a bit more skill or setup to pull off.

But you have to do that with any class.

For instance and all of these are coming from a glass cannon perspective, if you try to fight a Ranger who knows what he is doing with a ranged weapon you’re gonna lose.

You try to Toe to Toe melee with a greatsword or hammer Warrior of the same skill level. You’re gonna lose.

You fight a bunker necromancer of the same skill level, without any condition removals or heals. You’re gonna lose.

It’s a combination of knowing what your profession is capable of, and what other professions are capable of. Not an imbalance, just experience.

You are right in a sense that in a one vs one situation, a thief fighting any other class that is glass cannon is going to have a huge advantage simply because they generally get the opening strike. Sure that’s true, but that’s not an imbalance.

Some professions are better at things than others, thats what makes them unique, and important in the WvW arena. Know what they are capable of and prepare accordingly.

While I agree with everything you said in principle, I still feel the learning curve for certain thief combos/builds is a bit too low (or the learning curves for their counters are a bit too high; take your pick), and grossly compounded by culling. Same goes for warrior to a lesser extent, and mesmer simply because noobs don’t know how to handle clones.

Like I said, hard nerfs might not be in order, just a few tweaks to the skill required to pull off or counter certain combos. You are right though, it’s not just thieves; thieves just have the biggest gap in skill to play vs skill to counter ratio, so they get the most attention, followed by mesmer, since mes also have very powerful utilities on top of being a tier 1 dueling class.

I’m not saying each class should be able to do everything equally, but the skill to pull of particularly powerful combos should be at least close to the skill required to counter them in most situations. That’s the imbalance, not class performance for certain tasks.

@Suralin:
So its ok to leave an imbalanced system in place for 6+ months? Yeah, they are having problems with culling right now, but its not like they can’t apply a band aid fix to nerf the op situation and then repeal it when culling is fixed. Obviously the revealed rebuff isn’t enough, or maybe it just needs a longer duration?

Bllade.1029:

As far as the profession goes, thieves as a profession are extremely fragile, even in stealth they are very killable. It takes experience and practice to know how to fight thieves, but when you do they are much more manageable.

And therein lies the problem. It shouldn’t take skill and experience just to match a player because he chose a certain class. That’s not balanced. OK, bad thieves are an exception, but average thief players nigh instant killing all but good players is what we have right now, and its not good.

I’m not saying give these thief skills hard nerfs that will reduce their efficiency in the hands of good players, but I would like to see these devastating combos require quite a bit more skill or setup to pull off.

Mesmer is slow until about level 40; then you take off. So far staff-GS is a good combo, though GS-sword/focus is a little faster, just by a bit.

The best thing you can do as a mesmer to maximize damage is get a feel for the CDs on your illusion skills and shatter whenever those skills come off CD, then bring the illusions right back up. Weapon swap often to maximize this technique. Get through the first 40 levels (maybe do some crafting), then you really start to own. It really does pay off at higher levels.

Supersun.4603:

wads.5730:

but i dont disagree that scepter is kitten. its autoattack and phantasm needs to be changed.

…

How bad is it that I didn’t even miss a beat when reading that? Yeah, when comparing our crap weapon skills, scepter and iMage come up the most by far, and thus, often together.

Xavi.6591:

Don’t be lazy Jalliel!

Better not let Kai see you writing that!

If you want to see lots of numbers, I have seen a bunch on my warrior with a bow, and my engi has some nice tools for that too, but nothing has topped all the confusion numbers I see flying around with my glamour mesmer.

I have heard ele and necro have great AOE too, but I haven’t play them much.

@Lillith:
Temporal Curtain is a light field. Any projectile or whirl finisher will remove conditions. This is especially potent if your warden ends up in the field.

@Seven:
Yeah, I love torch too because I’m in love with invis, but I just can’t decide between OH sword or focus when I put the torch down. The swordsman is such a great harasser, but dat curtain! It’s pure awesome, and you have mastered it, man. Great work there, and awesome vid as usual.

I think I may just have to try the scepter so I can run with 2 off hands, but it’s going to be really hard to give up the staff. I can see myself on my kitten a lot.

Just as you said. Trigger a shatter then summon 3 clones really fast before the first 3 reach their targets. Repeat until you run out of shatters or ways to make clones. It’s theoretically possible to get many clones out before they actually shatter especially if your targets are running away from you.

@wads:
I don’t think the staff is all that UP in wvwvw. I love it there.

Phase Retreat is one of the best tools we have for defense with the constant juking, esp when outnumbered. And CA and CS are close behind it, plus CS doubles as an ethereal combo field (something no other weapon skill can do).

Staff is definitely the best group support weapon we have and makes even GC builds viable due to it’s awesome D in “oh kitten” moments. Just play to it’s strengths, and it can very good to you while roaming or in zergs.

Like many other under-used abilities, it can have its place. The problems are that a) it offers less for more effort than similar traits from other classes, b) you have to be in Inspiration to even get it, and some other traits in that line tend to offer much more in most situations, and c) there are more reliable ways to be faster.

Given the combination of these factors, I’d much rather equip a focus, Blink, or even centaur runes before taking up a minor conditional forward run speed only buff. Sure, every little bit helps, but it’s at end of the list so by that point I’m pretty good on speed and need other buffs from Inspiration, usually.

Focus is useful for so much more than the speed buff, and by the time you can take speed trait, you are already halfway to Warden’s Feedback (+20% duration on over 2x Celerity’s speed increase). Still, might be useful in some builds if focus doesn’t fit.

Blink I almost always have anyway so that’s probably not an issue, but depending on the situation I might need the trait slot for any gaps left when taking a movement utility.

Centaur runes give over twice the speed, usable IC and OOC, and grants it to allies/illusions for mass movement and can be the difference between nailing a shatter and missing if the enemy dodges. Yeah, giving up runes is a bigger investment, but not so bad for power builds, and it gives more.

EDIT: Oops, forgot my major point:
Now if Compounding Celerity were cumulative with other speed buffs or granted speed comparable to buffs with similar restrictions, say +10-12% speed increase per illusion then we might have something worth considering for more than just a small handful of builds.

@MLieBennett:
That’s a neat build with some good ideas. I’m trying something similar right now, but in a tanky power spec. But if you are considering giving up 10 in Illusions for +15% illusion damage in Domination, I have to say putting those 5 points into Inspiration would be much more beneficial. The +15% damage for phantasms minor is just as good since clones don’t really do damage any more, plus Warden’s Feedback is much better than anything you’d get in Dom.

Not sure how much help I can be since a male charr is about as far as you can get from a human female, but I really like the whispers armor. It’s closer to an adventurer look than the much more popular mage-like armors, so its certainly not over used and fits sword really well.

To get any more unique, you are going to have to mix and match. Find a base you like, preview vendors, buy cheap pieces of various levels on the TC to preview, and sell back the ones you don’t like. Maybe even make a little coin.

@ArmageddonAsh:
They said that Portal is giving them problems, and they are giving the tool to other classes. I don’t know any other details.

Henrik.7560:

Any reasons why our stealth are not as good as thieves’?

Thieves don’t have Portal. Yet.

SWEET! You gotta screen of giant Duma.

Gotta admit I’ve never seen the svanir shaman chief go down quite so fast. It’s scary what a constant 25 stacks of confusion can do! I’m going to have to reconsider an all mesmer guild.

Staff clones do some damage from conditions. Sword clones apply vulnerability and remove boons. When you have 15 pts in Dueling, all clones apply a bleed stack on crits.

Other than that, they do negligible damage, but serve as meat shields, shatter fodder, and possibly apply some other conditions with traits.

@jportell:
Just make sure you don’t get too involved. The last time I dueled a mes we each had about 7 clones up and 4 phants, but then I tried to jump in with a few Blurred Frenzies just for kicks, and the server crashed. Sorry to everyone that had login issues on the 26th. My bad.

I’ll say the same thing I said about it during beta:

While it has the potential to be really cool, I’m afraid Anet just might somehow mess it up. Most of the majestic characters and scenery look great in the game, but some of the more horrific imagery just… doesn’t (see necro minions). At least with the way it is at least I know they will always look good, because they look like… well… ME! :p

Dokyo.3685:

Keep your trolloc hooves (hands?) off my butterflies.

I belive the word you are looking for is paws. :p

Got no problem with ppl not wanting to play my race/class. More standout for me.

But I think charr casters are all fairly rare anyway. Most are likely warriors or engineers. Maybe several rangers out there. Would be nice for Anet to release some demographics.

Oops. Forgot to comment on Mind Stab. I don’t mind the rooted animation since it’s so cool, but it’s gotta be worth it. Increase damage, bigger radius, and blast finisher are appropriate given the self root.

And yeah, we definitely need a speed bonus somewhere. Signet of Midnight is lacking and seem appropriate, but I’d rather swiftness if we are being choosy. Make Signet of Inspiration only give swift and vigor while OOC.

Really like your idea for the scepter auto being a projectile finisher. Maybe it has been mentioned before, but most people just spam “add a condition.” The other thing that definitely needs to be done is removing the attack rate from the projectile animation if it had not been done already (haven’t tested in a while). We already have a great melee weapon, so there’s no point making scepter do more damage at melee range.

As for Torch, I admit I’m at a loss how to beef the iMage up without making him overpowered in a few situations (boss DEs). In most situations he’s subpar and could use more duration or damage. Maybe reducing stacks to 1 for 6s but giving it 2 bounces?

Here’s my idea for The Prestige I posted awhile back:
The Pledge: Blind nearby foes (5s). Combo Field: Smoke.
-> The Turn: Damage nearby foes. Combo Finisher: Leap.
-> The Prestige: Burn Nearby Foes (3s). Combo Finisher: Blast.

Would be nice, but they are probably not going to do anything about it. Even during beta we brought up points like this, plus… oh yeah, clones have no OH weapons! and Anet’s response was that clones are only supposed to be a brief distraction; nothing more.

Heh, when roaming I usually have 2-3 stealth skills. Mass Invis, Decoy, and Blink are almost always on my bar when in a group of 3 or less, and I switch out my OH a lot depending on my mood.

Torch 4 is a good skill; almost great in certain builds. Excellent would be if it wasn’t a channel. Yeah, the iMage needs work.

The greatest trick a charr mesmer ever pulled was making the forums think he didn’t exist … and just like that (Blink) he was gone.

Don’t forget charrs, too!

Here’s a build I ran for a little while. It worked great roaming in a small group and even solo, and with a few quick switches it converts to support in bigger groups quite well.

Armor: Rabid w/Centaur Runes.
Amulet/Rings: Rabid.
Accessory/Back: Knights.
Sword: Soldiers w/Sigil of Blood.
Staff/Torch: Carrion w/Sigils of Energy.
(Backup staff w/ Corruption)

When roaming:

http://www.guildhead.com/skill-calc#mMmmmc9cMabLoMabLo0GG0xmacaVoq

When with a group:

http://www.guildhead.com/skill-calc#mMmmzc9cMCrnmMabLo0GG0xmaVaVRs

The roaming setup gives you plenty of stealth, mobility, and confusion bombing with CoF. I added a little power into the mix b/c I found that it goes farther that eeking out a little extra c/dam, esp when you can setup a CoF -> iLeap -> swap -> MI/BF/MW combo. The best time to do this after your foe unleashes a big burst or you have his escape skills on CD. If he hits you with his burst, bust your heal before the CoF to heal up and grant swiftness to all rushing illusions.

With all the toughness, stealth, mobility, and confusion, you are pretty hard to take down and can escape well. Those that chase you usually fail or die spamming CC/movement skills from confusion. Depending on my mood, sometimes I’ll switch Chaos III for IV or V and Illusion V for VII, too.

The group setup allows you to spread confusion far and wide with glamours and CS, grant swiftness to allies and portal them for ambushes/escapes. Pretty simple there. If it’s a PUG where portal doesn’t help as much, you can swap it for Veil. Even in a PUG you can pop it at the frontline when you close in, and players tend to run over it, and it spreads confusion.

For lower levels it really comes down to just using a staff. Start there.

When you get up in levels, start looking around to forums for tank builds (Fay just posted a great thread which compiles them); there a few ways to build a tanky or elusive mesmer. Pick the one that most appeals to you and start experimenting with it to find your own, preferred build.

It’s unlikely they are hiding changes on purpose. It seems they just keep poor notes and don’t coordinate well with the folks that write the patch notes. It’s possible some changes were approved last minute and the notes were written earlier or just not reported due to time.

Still, it is rather annoying.

As others have said, the best thing you can do is get on the server mumble and open communications with others guilds/commanders. Not only can you participate in advanced tactics against zergs, but these guys are an excellent resource for tracking enemy zergs, so you can evade them and strike where it’s needed most, and you reduce the risk of slamming into a zerg.

And if you want to get into the bigger action, you still can. A small hit ’n run team in a coordinated strike (again, talk the commander/zerg leader on your server or even another small guild) against the backside of a zerg pitched in battle can turn the battle like nothing else, esp if they are PUGs.

Dynnen.6405:

TLDR: Uncap AOE to balance zergballs and small groups, force players to be aware of their surroundings, and make the tactical/strategic war more exciting.

Heh, Anet already said they are reducing AOE, so I seriously doubt they do anything to strengthen it, but I like your idea. Maybe increase the max targets when you have the outmanned buff would be a good option.

Dastion.3106:

Wise.8025:

You will probably find when you make broad sweeping sensationalized statements that it is going to get some attention. OP is a buzz word and far too heavily used. No the skills aren’t OP by themselves, players make them strong by stretching the skills to do what they want to achieve. There is nothing Over Powered about them. It’s a shame that any time something is good or is strong I see 100 posts about OP this and OP that. Get some vocabulary and you’ll have far fewer issues with explaining what you really mean, and far fewer people arguing with you so you can move your ideas ahead.

Err, I said exactly “Illusionary Persona is an OP Trait… but without it, Shattering is extremely underwhelming.” Seems pretty straight forward to me. I knew the topic would garner the wrong kind of attention and so made a point to address it early on. I then went on to explain all of the ways in which it made the base mechanic much better and suggested lowering the trait’s effect but bringing up the base mechanic’s potency so that shattering isn’t so drastically boosted by a single trait.

Despite my apparent lack of vocabulary, many seemed to be able to understand my point. If you want to be constructive then by all means do so, but don’t go out of your way to be insulting.

Gaiawolf.8261:

Dastion.3106:

Gaiawolf.8261:

So you cone out with a controversial remark, and then attempt to explain the underlying message. Ever consider a career in politics, or TV?

It wasn’t quite sensationalism. Inevitably many who read the post and, no matter how I said it, assume I just wanted a nerf to IP. So I worded the topic in such a way as to catch those individuals attention and then in the very first sentence of the post explained in bold what I truly meant.

If they continue to think I meant something else after the bolded explanation at the beginning and then further discussion on the matter then there isn’t much I can do.

It is heartening to see a handful of people get what I’m saying. Rather than the tired old “it’s a 30 point trait, it’s supposed to be good” logic that essentially means no 30 point trait could ever be OP.

Which would be fine if your bolded explanation was true; it’s not. There are several builds that use shatters to great effect w/o going MW DPS (Pyroatheist.9031 posted a build just days ago that’s a perfect example), they just aren’t shatter DPS builds. So don’t try to make them shatter DPS builds.

You want a shatter DPS build, you take IP. You want a glamour build, you take Confusing Enchantments. You want a support/healing build you take Restorative Mantras. As others have been saying, you take traits that expand your chosen playstyle. Shattering isn’t underwhelming w/o IP, UNLESS you are trying to use it the same way that someone who takes IP uses it!

Would you even consider trying a mantra support/healing build w/o RM? Do you think it would work… at all? No. So why compare shatter DPS builds w/o IP? That’s what the trait does; makes shatter DPS builds work.

It also doesn’t change the fact that shatters can still be useful in other builds. I gave you one example, just look for a few more more to see the usefulness in shatter w/o IP. They are there.

The whole glamour thing is a straw-man argument, which is why I didn’t respond to it the first time you brought it up. By that logic you should never use any special ability type (Glamours, Mantras, Manipulations, etc.) without the accompanying trait, no matter what the goal of your build is. I use Feedback and Null Field frequently without Confusing Enchantments. Why? Because my build is usually Power based and unstated and unreliable confusion isn’t worth traiting for, especially in PvE where confusion is already lacking and getting enemies to cross the edge of the fields is difficult.

There is quite a difference between a trait which adds a completely different effect to a certain type of utility (i.e. optional) skills and a trait which drastically boosts the effectiveness of a built-in profession mechanic, especially when that trait not only increases it’s maximum effect but the average effect as well.

I never said you can’t use certain abilities w/o certain traits; I said you don’t use certain builds w/o certain traits. Huge difference.

I also stated how shatters were useful, and not underwhelming, w/o IP. IP makes a shatter DPS build useful, not shatters themselves. They are already useful, so IP is not mandatory for many viable, powerful builds. Design balance around builds, not individual traits.

Dastion.3106:

Gaiawolf.8261:

So you cone out with a controversial remark, and then attempt to explain the underlying message. Ever consider a career in politics, or TV?

It wasn’t quite sensationalism. Inevitably many who read the post and, no matter how I said it, assume I just wanted a nerf to IP. So I worded the topic in such a way as to catch those individuals attention and then in the very first sentence of the post explained in bold what I truly meant.

If they continue to think I meant something else after the bolded explanation at the beginning and then further discussion on the matter then there isn’t much I can do.

It is heartening to see a handful of people get what I’m saying. Rather than the tired old “it’s a 30 point trait, it’s supposed to be good” logic that essentially means no 30 point trait could ever be OP.

Which would be fine if your bolded explanation was true; it’s not. There are several builds that use shatters to great effect w/o going MW DPS (Pyroatheist.9031 posted a build just days ago that’s a perfect example), they just aren’t shatter DPS builds. So don’t try to make them shatter DPS builds.

You want a shatter DPS build, you take IP. You want a glamour build, you take Confusing Enchantments. You want a support/healing build you take Restorative Mantras. As others have been saying, you take traits that expand your chosen playstyle. Shattering isn’t underwhelming w/o IP, UNLESS you are trying to use it the same way that someone who takes IP uses it!

Would you even consider trying a mantra support/healing build w/o RM? Do you think it would work… at all? No. So why compare shatter DPS builds w/o IP? That’s what the trait does; makes shatter DPS builds work.

It also doesn’t change the fact that shatters can still be useful in other builds. I gave you one example, just look for a few more more to see the usefulness in shatter w/o IP. They are there.

So you cone out with a controversial remark, and then attempt to explain the underlying message. Ever consider a career in politics, or TV?

@Ross Biddle:

Disdaining a weapon skill that is only really useful for champs and major bosses is not ignorance; it’s a valid complaint. Such niche usefulness is OK for a few utility skills at best (like Illusion of Life), but for a weapon skill it’s just bad design.

Yeah, IP is great for shatter builds. That’s why it’s so far into the Illusion line. Anet said they are looking into various builds, weapons, and traits to see which ones need a buff for more build diversity. Now no one expects the mesmer nerfs to stop completely (so IP might be a candidate, but not likely since TW is taking the heat ATM), but if what they told us is true, if I were you I’d be looking at how other builds could be buffed to keep up instead of analyzing why IP is great for shatter builds.

Bottom line: Anet plans to buff builds in general, not nerf isolated traits because they make one type of build more viable.

BTW, did you ever consider a glamour build w/o Confusing Enchantments? o_O

HAHA! No, anything but simple.

But a GS guardian is a completely different build which requires different tactics.

That’s it in your build AFAIK. If you pick up a OH sword or scepter, it works with the block skills there.

Bear in mind you can get aegis from CS and CA, and you can get CA from CS. It happens often enough to make the trait decent, but I prefer blade training whenever I have a sword. 25% invulnerability uptime is pure awesome, and keeps me alive when I switch out of staff. Sometime I even use BF when outside attack range just for the invuln.