Guild Wars 2

DresdenAllblack.1249:

^Agreed^
Let’s eat something off the menu first, before we complain to the chef.

So people on the forum can respond, “What, you ate it already. How can he change the recipe now?”

There’s really no good stage to complain about a change. Someone will always have a reason for why we should wait it out. I’ve seen the circle go round and round over the last three years.

1) ArenaNet announces a change: “Wait and see how it actually plays.”
2) Patch day: “They’re still fine tuning, I’m sure it will get fixed.”
3) A couple months later: “You’re still upset about that? It’s in for good, get over it and adapt.”
4) Information drought: “I’m sure they’re working on it behind the scenes, but they don’t announce anything until it’s almost ready, so just hang on and see.”

velmeister.4187:

Stark.1350:

I want to hear why this change was made – you’ve completely reversed your position on tiers now.

Mudflation .. here we come!

Cost of material will skyrocket like crazy alienating casual playerbase.

Watch it go!

http://www.gw2spidy.com/item/19748

BrooksP.4318:

One thing I think Anet completely missed the mark on, which doesn’t really apply to the right and wrong outlook, is not utilizing the open world PVE and dynamic events to create a more fluid game environment, aka a real “Living World”.

I absolutely agree. That’s what I was thinking of when I talked about things in embryo stage at launch. I know a lot of people felt dynamic events were just dressed-up, old-school quests, but I saw a lot of potential to make them into more dynamic, interlocking web-structured stories that play out across zones. They could have been developed to a level of complexity that made them feel truly dynamic.

But ArenaNet added a handful of new DEs early in the game that the player base didn’t notice or go gaga over. From there they took off in other directions from the original stated goal of continuing to expand and develop the DE networks within existing zones.

SkiTz.4590:

Lol, this is the internet, if you feel your faith has been attacked and you don’t like it.. than idk what to tell you. Get thicker skin. Words on a gaming forum really should not upset your faith.. my goodness..

No, there’s no way you could upset my faith. I was just pointing out your boorishness. Not that I expected you to change, but childish behavior should be recognized, so people don’t feel like it is generally accepted.

anyways,
This is a forum, I can also freely state to anet that this change seems fine and I’m allowed to freely refute your opinion on this thread about this being a bad change..

Absolutely. Please do. But grow up enough not to feel the need to spew derision on people because they disagree with you.

theres a thousand other things that are being shaken up and stirred in the xpac… this is probably the least concerning one…

For you.

you got traits and skills being totally revamped and changing up the meta far more than a 5% boost to stats….that should be the bigger concern..

Why?

SkiTz.4590:

THINGS CHANGE. All the time. If you don’t like it, bye.

Safari Tank.6238:

The difference from 5% to 10% (what everybody is all worked up over) is about 20 main stat and 14 off stat. Not that big of a deal…

One way of looking at it.

But you’re comparing 5% ascended to 10% ascended, which doesn’t really address the issue. A lot of people who don’t like that Ascended was added to the game didn’t like that it had any stat increase at all, but were content to just grumble a little because it was only 20 main and 14 off stat (with the 30% you figured in). Now it’s going to be 40 main and 29 off stat, and that seems like a pretty big bonus for something that is locked behind a ridiculously large, costly materials list and crafting grind.

It’s the gap between Ascended and Exotic we’re concerned about, not the gap between old Ascended and new Ascended. That latter gap is as small as the gap between old Ascended and Exotic, but it adds up to a more concerning gap between new Ascended and Exotic.

Gerrand.3085:

I don’t see how minor attribute buffs affect WvW zergs (or even medium sized roaming groups). This also doesn’t make any of the current content harder, not sure if the few extra stat points will be “required” for HoT bosses – although I doubt it.

It’s definitely biggest for solo and small squad WvWers.

BrooksP.4318:

It has always been where it is now. GW2 is just a mix of what is wrong with MMOs and what is right. Depending on perspective.

I guess your mileage may vary.

At launch, I found GW2 to have fixed a lot of the things I hated about MMORPGs. Some of those fixes were in embryo stage, and could have been glorious if they had matured over time with further development, but they were there.

Apolyon.6937:

Sorry, I’ve been a bit late to the party and there are too many posts now… quick question, has this been confirmed by ANet? How is it that some unknown source has this information before anybody else?

Not confirmed by ArenaNet as far as I know, but several sites have posted them up saying that they received them from ArenaNet, including Dulfy.

SkiTz.4590:

Gibson.4036:

I know, in three years we should have moved on. Unfortunately, nobody has yet made the game we were told GW2 was going to be.

You must have missed the part in pretty much every MMO that says “Things are always subject to change”

Huh, that’s funny, because I was addressing that in the last line of my post, right above your response. Yes, things change. But even ArenaNet agreed at one point, which flies in the face of your insulting attitude that everyone who disagrees with you is “pathetic”.

You need to stop believing every little freaking word Anet says or really any game studio that develops games.

At this point, I believe nothing of what ArenaNet says. There was a point where they seemed passionate about doing things differently and were a very open and communicative company, however. Of course, it’s easy to be that when the game hasn’t launched, and the money people are giving the artsy people lots of freedom to pursue and share their passions.

THINGS CHANGE. All the time. If you don’t like it, bye. It’s honestly pathethic seeing how much crying is going on because they boosted ascended armor… jesus.
This boost is perfectly welcomed by most players outside of the small minority harping on about anets casualplay philosophy

Look. You may not like it, but any company with any sort of longevity would rather have its upset customers sharing why they are no longer spending money on the service than see them quietly cease to be customers.

Based on a many design choices over the last three years I went from a paying, playing customer to paying less and less, and now playing less and less. At this point I don’t even log in daily to grab the daily reward. With the HoT announcement, I thought that might change, but the character rollback and now this ascended change is making me second guess that.

This forum is the place to let ArenaNet know why. If you don’t like it, bye.

I can tell you have a lot of anger. You might want to get some counseling for that. And by all means, man-up enough to show respect for other people’s faiths not to use their deities as swear words.

risa.1382:

This is a good example, by focusing on the treadmill semantics you miss, marginalize, and/or obfuscate the core of many players frustrations with the relevant portion of GW2’s direction.

It takes almost no context or logic to realize that people complaining about treadmills are simply expressing their dissatisfaction with increasing the pressure on them to stat grind, which is not an expectation they, rightfully IMO, had for GW2.

Brilliant post. So many discussions get sidetracked by arguments over language like “casual” or “hardcore”, “treadmill” and references to “The Manifesto”.

SkiTz.4590:

You honestly believe changing ascended from 5% boost to 10% boost is going to cause the xpac to lose sales? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

I’ve seen it all now. my goodness the casual players in this game go beyond casual.

Go back and look at my post. I said a few sales. Tell me what “a few” means.

It’s not about casual/hardcore. It’s about what people are looking for in a game. Some want to chase stats, others don’t. There are a huge number of stat-chasing games out there, but this one was originally billed as different.

Behellagh.1468:

So have cloth prices surged yet, anticipating the rush to craft ascended armor?

http://www.gw2spidy.com/item/19748

SkiTz.4590:

The amount of casual carebears is so sad

You use that word a lot. I don’t think it means what you think it means.

This change at least gives some incentive to get ascended armor….who really wanted to work just for an insignificant 5% boost? thats worthless in the grand scheme of things to the average player (min maxers obviously already have ascended but thats not the target audience for this change).. Now 10% changes up things because that is a boost worth farming for…

2013 “Don’t worry about Ascended. It’s such a small difference, you can take it or leave it!”

2015 “We needed the stats on Ascended to be raised so that it’s worth actually going for it!”

Sigh.

if you don’t too freaking bad, don’t go about complaining just because you can’t have the best stuff giftwrapped to your mailbox.

You must have missed the part where ArenaNet said they didn’t want players to chase gear stats, and that they wanted everyone in the game to quickly achieve BiS gear shortly after hitting max level. That was one of the big things that attracted some of us to this game. Originally, it didn’t have that usual MMORPG philosophy you express so eloquently.

I know, in three years we should have moved on. Unfortunately, nobody has yet made the game we were told GW2 was going to be.

ekarat.1085:

If you think 5% isn’t a big deal, then I would like to point out that 10% (new value) – 5% (old value) = 5% = not a big deal.

That is, if you think ascended gear wasn’t significant before, then this change isn’t significant either.

Ooh, I want to play this game, too.

If you think 5% isn’t a big deal, then I would like to point out that 10% is a 100% increase on the difference between Exotic and Ascended. 10% (new value) / 5% (old value) = 200% = big deal.

That is, if you think ascended gear wasn’t significant before, this this change may have you rethinking.

DresdenAllblack.1249:

Craft or don’t. If you haven’t crafted yet, it was because of an innate stubbornness to what, save a few hundred gold? Not kill the Claw of Jormag for the 400th time?
Ascended armor is a cake walk. Either craft and be happy, or don’t and stop with the silly hate.

You clearly play the game a lot. A “few hundred gold” is a fortune to many, many players.

It’s not a simple question of “craft or don’t”. Unless you include finding other past times and ways to spend our cash in “don’t”.

If I was ArenaNet, I would have postponed this change until after HoT launch. As it is, they may lose out on a few expansion sales because of it.

You’re only allowed to care about BiS gear if it’s absolutely required to do the content.

BrooksP.4318:

There is a lot of stuff that is not so different from other MMOs, they just water it down, make it optional, and call it something else. Ascended and (New)Ascended is no different.

Yes. The last three years have been a journey from “the MMORPG for people who hate MMORPGs” to “the MMORPG not quite as bad as other MMORPGs”.

pdavis.8031:

Either way, it still falls well within their position and philosophy of ascended gear.

Not that it matters, even if true. ArenaNet is always “iterating” and “nothing is off the table”. If the last three years have demonstrated anything, it’s that ArenaNet can change their minds at any time, about anything.

Back when people were celebrating the fact that ArenaNet was saying they would never add a gear beyond Ascended, there were people warning that the promise meant very little. There are too many other ways they can keep pulling players toward vertical progression beyond adding another tier of gear.

Don’t believe this is the last. It never is.

The big difference is acquisition. There’s a very smooth acquisition curve from whites on up through Exotic. Better tiers are a little harder to get, but not drastically so. Exotic gear takes some dungeon runs, or a trip through Orr, or a little gold earning to achieve.

Then, suddenly, there is a sharp increase in the acquisition curve between Exotic and Ascended. Ascended takes a ridiculous amount of resources and time compared to Exotic. If the difficulty of getting Ascended compared to Exotic was the equivalent of Exotic to Rare, it wouldn’t seem like this bizarre monstrosity ripped out of a gear-treadmill game and pasted on to the end of GW2’s original gradual gear progression with chewing gum and duct tape.

That’s why the “if we’re getting rid of Ascended, let’s get rid of Exotics, and hey, even rares and just run around in Masterwork” argument doesn’t hold water.

You really think you’ll get a satisfying answer?

Based on past experience:

We’re committed to Ascended gear being the best tier in the game and not planning on adding any more tiers. We think this change better places Ascended gear as a bridge between Exotic and Legendary. In no way does it go back on any of the things we’ve said we want for GW2. We thank you for the support of this wonderful community that is one of the best of any MMORPG we know. #colinsmile

kash.9213:

It’s not largely unused and after this change anyone not using it will be farming for it because it will be required for pretty much everything aside from sPvP.

Now now. You’re not playing the game right. We’re all supposed to pretend that the vast majority of video game players can happily ignore Best-in-Slot gear because the content can be done in the 10% worse tier below.

dulfy.1493:

Ever wanted to own a pet rock? Now you can get one for 350 in the gemstore. The little thing hops like a frog!

Shiny!

I’m so excited, I forgot about having my character progress set back.

kash.9213:

Gibson.4036:

The increase to 10% isn’t a gear treadmill. It’s just a scuzzy move to get more players from the “ascended isn’t worth it” camp into “I better get working on the ascended grind if I’m going to keep up”.

Which means everyone who mostly plays WvW will not be in WvW for a good year because they’ll be farming for Ascended gear. Or they’ll just quit.

Indeed.

Safari Tank.6238:

Exotic gear will be just as good as it was before, maybe even better since trait stats are now re-balanced onto gear. All I see is a buff to a largely unused tier of armor, which nobody should be complaining about. But alas, you guys will complain about anything…

Funny, I never once complained that exotic was easy to obtain and BiS. In fact, I used that as a selling point of the game when talking to people who didn’t play.

The increase to 10% isn’t a gear treadmill. It’s just a scuzzy move to get more players from the “ascended isn’t worth it” camp into “I better get working on the ascended grind if I’m going to keep up”.

Palador.2170:

IF they stop here, it’s ugly but survivable.

That sentiment has become so familiar over the last three years.

And the frog, by and large, keeps sitting in the pot.

IndigoSundown.5419:

1. Is there some citation with these numbers?

Dragonseason, Dulfy, and GW2Guru have all posted them.

1. Is ANet adding a percentage bonus to all gear regardless of gear tier? If so, wow.

All gear gets a 30% increase due to removal of stats from the trait system. The gap between exotic and ascended changes from 5% to 10%.

They’ve always said that even though they will never add another tier of gear beyond ascended, they are commited to gradual vertical progression. For years, the ascended forum defenders have been trumpeting the first and conveniently ignoring the latter.

As much as defenders are quick to point out that ascended is optional, ArenaNet needs to make sure it isn’t optional for a significant portion of the players. It’s the major carrot they’ve got to keep us coming back and spending money.

Roan.5194:

So now they just want their kittening game to transform in a farm fest, where kiddies with no jobs will get all the benefits

kitten you ArenaNet, i’m your main form of sustain as I spend my money on your game, but now you spit on us

Three ways to show your disapproval. The first, posting on the forums, is probably the least impactful.

Stop logging in. Stop spending money.

spoj.9672:

It still shouldnt matter for the casual player. There are no gear requirements to complete content (apart from agony resist in fractals) and there are no DPS checks that require any significant investment.

The stat difference is larger. But its still pretty small.

Thank you. I was wondering how long that would take.

Just out of curiosity, what would the threshold stat difference be? 15%? 25%? 50%? At what point would it feel weird to you, personally, that BiS gear was so much better than the last readily accessible tier?

And how strong is your belief that ArenaNet will balance around Exotic level stats creating new content in the future?

I know it’s three years dead now, but I still love ArenaNet’s original idea for GW2 that all players, shortly after hitting 80, would be equipped in BiS gear.

Go ahead and weep. Weep for what GW2 was at launch.

Dulfy

The attribute difference between exotic and ascended gear has been changed from 5% to 10%

Tanith.5264:

It’s a fansite…an established and well-respected one. I wish someone from Anet would clear the air on this, because if the “patch notes” turn out to be bogus it’ll hurt their reputation and GuildMag’s as well.

It’s posted on Dulfy as well.

Gellrock.4073:

Personally, this change is going to kitten me over. I’m a WvW player (95% of my time is there) and yet I only have 2 ascended items form drops on my guardian and the rest is exotic. I have an Exotic Necro, Ele, and Warrior as well. I hate crafting and stupid time sinks (map completion) and can’t stand the kittenty PvE this game has. Being a WvW’er my gold hovers around 100g due to the constant need for buying food, the changing meta, and donating gold to commanders to help for siege. I’ll never be able to get ascended items because of how I play, but now I’ll feel this 10% difference a lot more and fell less helpful to my guild and my community. I’ve played on my serious GvG and zerg busting teams and have always outlived full ascended guildmates of mine. Hopefully I still can after this patch or I might have to move on and find a new WvW game.

In before “WvW is inherently unbalanced, so gear disparity doesn’t matter.”

Though I agree with you.

Donari.5237:

It’s entirely possible that the increasing number of third party sites claiming to have the full notes is are hoaxing people.

FTFY

Customization is too confusing to players.

phys.7689:

ok famster ill make it simple for you,
http://dulfy.net/gw2traits#build=AgABqAKoA6g~

pick any build
tell me what skills/traits you want to use.

i will tell you roughly how many hero points you will need to unlock it. I guarantee it will always be lower than 400

I would like to be able to switch to any build. After all, they specifically took away the respec guy and the fee for changing my build so that I’d have the freedom to do so.

How many hero points will I need for my current ability to use any skill and trait I see fit?

Don’t worry. The guy who sold you the wallpaper you spent so much time hanging is only going to take down about 20% of it. Really, how many rooms in your home to you actually need? Just pick the one room for him to strip, and you can live in the other four. Four rooms should be enough for anybody, right? After all, there are people in large cities that only live in one room.

Or, you can always rehang the wallpaper in the fifth room. After all, you wanted to be a homeowner, and that’s what being a homeowner is all about, doing home improvement.

Roses. Sunshine. All is happiness.

So, the question is, will the forum defenders of Ascended gear continue to tell us the gap between Exotic and Ascended is too minor to matter?

Apparently ArenaNet didn’t like the idea that a huge portion of their player base could shrug off the grind to get Ascended by dismissing the minor stat boost.

Come on. Come on. You know you want this tasty carrot…..

Well, if nothing else, when we point out that Ascended was a bad idea, we won’t have to hear “It’s only a 5% increase” any more. That’s something.

I guess.

phys.7689:

The crazy part is, people are complaining that they might have to play a charachter for a few hours before they fully unlock all of its potential. Think about that.

you may have to play a charachter for a few hours, in order to get every skill/trait available to it.

a few hours

It’s not about playing for a few hours in order to get every skill and trait. It’s about playing for a few hours for each character to get access to skills and traits to which I already have earned access.

phys.7689:

Gibson.4036:

phys.7689:

Based in that, I doubt they would make it account wide.
its actually really alt friendly compared to almost any other game

GW2 the MMORPG for those who hate that’s not quite as bad as other MMORPGs.

so what you are saying, is you really think its a good idea that you never have to play a charachter/proffession at all, and can full unlock all its abilities? You really think that is a winning strategy for PVE?

What I was saying is that a lot of the things that were going to make this different than other MMORPGs got modified to be only not as bad as other MMORPGs. Around launch there was a lot of defending of the game with “GW2 is different than other MMORPGs”. It seems like over the years it has become more common to see it defended with “Other MMORPGs are way worse!”

Personally, I don’t have a problem with unlocking new stuff (Revenant progression, Elite specializations) by doing skill hero challenges. Then again, I’m not one of the WvW-only crowd originally promised complete character progression without leaving WvW.

I do, however, have a problem with ArenaNet revamping the game in such a way that it required me to go out and re-earn unlocks I already had.

Long time problem. I learned about it before making the mistake myself, but there are enough people who do make the mistake that it needs to be clearer in game. Without a lot of MMORPG experience, “Unique” just sounds like another of those words they use to label gear tiers like “Rare”, “Masterwork”, “Epic”, and “Legendary”.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

To be fair we did have that at the beginning of this game’s life. However, many of the players decided they required an additional carrot to chase and whined until Anet changed that.

That’s the sad truth.

ekarat.1085:

I think they do care, and I am not ready to give up hope that they will have a solution for WvWers other than “get Hero Points in PvE”.

Okay, historically, that might be true. I’d expect six months to a year before there is a way for WvWers to get Hero Points in WvW, though.

They tend to introduce things with a narrow way of getting them, then quite a while later start opening up other options. Ascended gear has followed this pattern on several levels. But it usually starts with a “We’re looking into other options” shortly after launch of the new thing, followed by a long, silent development process, before something actually ends up in game.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Remember, a L80 Character (with absolutely no Skill Challenges completed) still has access to 7/8ths (400/465 Hero Points) of all traits and skills. Thus, enabling said Character access to several different builds.

If there are some additional traits/skills the Character wishes access to, then (other than PvP) they will need to complete some Hero Challenges (there are ~half available just in the Starter Zones.)

Good luck.

So in other words, I just got my pocket picked for twenty bucks, but I shouldn’t be upset because I still have the other $140 I was carrying. And I can earn back that $20 in a couple hours work.

No. I still don’t want someone making off with my twenty.

phys.7689:

Based in that, I doubt they would make it account wide.
its actually really alt friendly compared to almost any other game

GW2 the MMORPG for those who hate that’s not quite as bad as other MMORPGs.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

lol…you apparently didn’t play GW1, because seemingly anytime they did a balance pass, this is what happened. There is a very good reason people joke about skill balancing in that game.

Easier to swallow in a game with an easily obtainable gear plateau.

MiniEquine.6014:

1) they are deliberating their options and haven’t concluded anything yet on how they do this for alts or
2) they already have a decision about what will be done and are waiting until their reveal schedule allows them to talk about it more.

3) They’re hoping it will all go away once HoT launches and people go out and do their skill hero challenges like good little worker ants because they have to in order to keep access. Perhaps, a year later, they will introduce alternative ways to get Hero Points to great fanfare.

I think 3 fits the experience of the last three years a little closer than 1 and 2.

Endless Soul.5178:

Gibson.4036:

Dante.1763:

Nope. Everytime. To tired to bother reposting any of the arguments against here. Give this thread a day or two and it will die off again till somone makes the next mount thread. And then the same people will come in saying Yes or No. Like it happens every single time

Isn’t it beautiful to have something to rely on?

Like death, taxes, and mounts threads?

Exactly. Not to mention “When will HoT be released?” and"There’s nothing to do!" threads as well as “WoW is that way” responses.