Guild Wars 2

The final nail in the coffin to bury the GW2 dream.

Aetrion.8295:

Racism seems kind of petty and pointless when you have dragons trying to destroy the entire world. The mere fact that all sentient races are under threat binds them together in a way that transcends any such concerns.

It’s petty and pointless no matter the context.

And as much as we like to think people are enlightened enough to transcend racism when faced with a threat, history says otherwise. It’s when people are under a big threat that they lash out at others who are different. Scapegoats are useful.

I was enjoying a mantra build in general open world PvE, but that was before the massive trait rework. No idea if that is still a good option, as I haven’t played enough to really update any characters since.

Curious to see if you get any other responses.

minbariguy.7504:

Chobits.2430:

Players that purchased the game before that time get a Free character slot, value ~$10.
New players do not get a free character slot, but everyone gets something.

But ONLY if you pre-purchase the expansion before it releases. If you would rather wait until release so that you know exactly what you’re buying, you will need to spend an additional ten dollars for a character slot if you are already maxed out and wish to play the new profession.

Apparently, fifty dollars isn’t enough money for ANet to provide you with an expansion that is fully accessible without extra charges.

Consider it a “penalty fee” for not being loyal enough to hand them your money before release.

Yes, this was kind of a scuzzy move. If the idea is to reward veteran players because they can’t get the “free” base game included in the purchase price, it shouldn’t have the pre-purchase time limit on it.

Buy after launch, and you mean squat.

Relshdan.6854:

sure, but it doesn’t mean we won’t get some HoT info….personally, i’d like to see more on new maps/zones or more importantly: “challenging group content”.

Yes. I’d also like to see more on new maps/zones. How much content are we actually getting for that pricetag?

what will be disappointing is another tournament announcement, developer spotlight, or “fan art” feature.

Or another “Tempest” reveal.

Staff thief incoming…. 8`O

Uki.4725:

Schizo.1375:

Yeah but the actual reason we don’t have mounts, and I’m sure this has been brought up already, is that ANet wants us to use waypoints which act as the game’s biggest gold sink.

See! Now that’s a legitimate argument! It’s not necessarily one I like, but at least it’s better than “we wanna be different!”

Also not a particularly strong one. Mounts could easily have built-in gold sinks equal or even greater than waypoints. Mount feed, stabling, grooming, equipping… there are plenty of ways to keep mounts consuming gold long after initial purchase.

Guess I’ll Chronomancer.

My favorite thing is that it requires HoT purchase to play it.

Arcadio.6875:

Is $50 way too much? Compare it against the games closest to it. The recent WoW expansion is $50. Requires a subscription. The FFXIV expansion is $40 and also requires a subscription which immediately puts it over $50 just to play. ESO is going to release dlc every quarter which will end up being over $50 throughout a one year period.

The big question here is, will HoT add as much to GW2 as those expansions do to their games? I guess only hindsight will tell us.

While I personally don’t mind if Anet gave me the expansion at a lower price or even free, I’m being realistic here. $50 every few YEARS to stay up-to-date with a great MMO is fair.

If that $50 isn’t for a specific amount of new content, and only to stay “up-to-date”, then it’s a lot closer to a (albeit relatively cheap) subscription than B2P.

Vayne.8563:

Anyone who’s played this game for a year or more on $60 is probably being a bit unreasonable thinking that a continuation of the game for $50 is out of the ball park.

The problem is that this puts us in the position of paying for something that we might get in the future. I agree, over the last three years I’ve gotten a great amount of content for $60. That’s why I felt free to spend additional cash in the gem shop because I thought of it as continuing to pay for what I was playing, while getting some nice gem shop stuff as bonus.

I gradually stopped spending cash when I didn’t like the choices ArenaNet was making with development and stopped getting value for my money.

At this point, I’d be happy to pay cash equal to the value I perceive in HoT. From what we’ve seen so far, that looks like $20-$30. Telling me that I might get another three years of content out of it doesn’t help me decide the other $20-$30 of the box price is worth it because we very well may not get another 3 years of updates and content.

ArenaNet keeps iterating, including, it seems, with their business model. They may be planning on giving us the next three years of Living Story updates free as long as we have HoT and keep logging in. On the other hand, they may be on track to start bundling Living Story as a new $50 expansion every year. With their lack of transparency about future plans, we don’t really know.

If you dont’ believe there’s enough new content, wait a year and buy it then.

That’s roughly my plan. I’ll be able to see if it’s worth it at that point, likely pick it up for half the cost, and hopefully with a lot of the bugs worked out.

My only trouble with this plan is that they haven’t answered the question of how future free LS updates will be credited to our account. If I log on for the next year without HoT, will I get access to all of the LS updates between know and then? Or will logging in for a LS chapter only count if I have HoT?

They haven’t answered when I’ve created posts about it. Maybe it’s time for me to bring it up again.

I’ll be enjoying the content from day 1.

Thanks. I appreciate you beta testing for me.

Simplicity.7208:

Honestly, the only way I could’ve made it more troll myself is if the elementalist warhorn isn’t an offhand. Surprise! You’ll be bludgeoning your opponents to death with a glorified mainhand club that’s skinned like a warhorn. I’m far too amused to be kitten.

Why would it have to be melee?

It could be main hand, and the skills could summon swirling PBAoE storms.

I would love to have the option for a full, but trimmed beard for my human characters. We have stubble, goatee, and full, bushy. It’d be great to have a full beard as short as that mustache option over the entire jaw.

Xillllix.3485:

It looks like it’s missing about 75% of the utility skills, 2 weapons, 2 legends, and the damage was nerfed by 50% not to unbalance the rest of the game during the beta test.

I would not base my impression of the class from that, specially not when mesmers are running around 1-shotting everyone and the condi damage is off the chart.

Which makes the “it’s a true beta test” argument fall apart. If it’s too incomplete to even form an opinion, why beta test? There has to be enough substance to form real feedback.

The funny part is when people justify the cost of the expansion based on the stuff that may or may not come later.

The point here is that you are supposed to eventually do what it takes to unlock everything. If you could reset, you’d only have to do as much as it takes to unlock what you currently want to use.

And that would make ArenaNet sad pandas.

There’s no such thing as free. Someone, somewhere, is paying for every “free” thing given out by a company. The question is, “Who?”

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Does management just bounce from one idea to the next, with no one drawing out a straight course that ensures that nothing goes to waste?

Evidence suggest yes.

FrizzFreston.5290:

Welcome to the world of pre purchase. This really isn’t anything new in the gaming industry. When you buy early you get extras. Otherwise you don’t.

To be fair, the extra character slot wasn’t added as an “extra”, it was added in response to a large uprising by players who felt it should be a given part of paying for an expansion.

And to answer a question above: Yes, if they added a new profession as a stand alone DLC, I would expect it to include a character slot in the cost. It’d be weird to double charge by paying to unlock the profession on my account, then require me to either delete a character I’ve already built up or pay again for the profession by purchasing a new slot.

Diovid.9506:

2. There will be more elite specializations added sometime after HoT (whether that is with live updates or future expansions hasn’t been decided).

After the last three years, I’m cautious about this one.

GW2 is full of things that were going to be a new direction for the game, a new foundation on which to build, just the beginning of more to come, only to be abandoned later for a new new direction for the game.

You will get to see if there’s enough there to warrant purchasing it.

You will save $50.

After a while you will have the chance to pick it up on sale.

Behellagh.1468:

I can never understand the love for Rata Sum. The crafting stations are spread across each point, only the bank and TP are close. At least The Grove has all the crafting in one local with the bank and TP very close by.

I don’t usually find myself crafting multiple crafts at the same time. I’m typically concentrating on one, so the trip back and forth from TP to station is a nice, straight shot.

It doesn’t feel that way to me in the Grove, with the way the stations curve around. I can see why the Grove would be useful if you’re bouncing around between stations, though.

Quintuplebeta.3914:

I believe that the game is worth the price. To all those who say that the expansion is not big enough, you need to remember that we are paying for not only everything that we have seen, but also a ton of things we have yet to see. This includes the next few seasons of living world.

This is a terrible business model. It essentially puts everyone in the boat of pre-purchasing the game, even if they buy a week after launch. How in the world can any consumer decide whether the produce is worth the price if we only know a portion of the product?

It’s like the ultimate gambling box. They dangle what looks like $30 worth of content in front of the players and we’re supposed to hope that the Living Story will deliver another $20 worth between launch and the next expansion?

I like to have a good idea what I’m buying when I buy it. I’m not going to go into McDonalds and pay the price of a full meal with the only guarantee that it will at least include a Big Mac. You’re telling me, “Hey, they’ll probably throw fries in the bag, too!”

If, after launch, they continue the LS the way they have, then I expect that gem-store sales are the revenue stream that will support that. If they want to sell me an expansion it should look like everything included is worth the price tag without relying on rainbow scented hopes that more will arrive later.

ArenaNet has already spoken on this.

Resetting everything and letting people choose where to put their points was going to be too confusing to most of the players. So Mommy ANet approximated our previous builds for us.

And letting us reset points doesn’t fit in their new progression paradigm where you eventually earn enough to unlock everything.

Rata Sum, here.

I miss the LA with character. The new one is a lot like Disneyland. Pretty to visit, wouldn’t want to live there.

I think they’re planning on fixing this right after they fix the HoM.

And two years later, the April Fools prank will revolve around everyone receiving eye patches as a nod back to this oversight.

Then the forums will erupt in flames as people complain that ArenaNet are insensitive to people with vision problems.

Ricky.4706:

the problem with this, is …history shows that anet goes above and beyond what they first release – so I’m not buying into the argument of this ‘offering’ being small.

I trust anet to give us the expansion and more, their presentation was all wrong imo and it devalued the countless hours that the team will be adding to the game above and beyond this ‘packaging’

but this is something more well known by a vet than a new player ….so I can respect why a new player would see it that way. They don’t even know if they want to stay yet.

Started GW1 a couple years before GW2 launch, and have been here since the first beta. And history tells me something very different than it tells you.

In the past three years I’ve learned not to expect anything more than what I can plainly see.

Arlee.7038:

soon™

Before or after the HoM rewards get fixed, I wonder.

IMO, what we’ve seen so far does not at all supply enough value for kitten price tag. I’m waiting, however, to see what gets revealed with more beta events closer to launch. It may be that there is considerably more content there than there seems to be at present.

MiniEquine.6014:

The cost is now in line with other companies, so I’m not seeing the issue.

I can’t tell if the amount of content is in line with other companies. That’s my issue.

Hopefully, betas with no NDA will give us much more information, and it will become clear whether HoT is really worth $50.

I’m not seeing anyone else ask this question, but I think it’s a pretty signficant one. If we wait to purchase HoT, are we potentially going to get charged for any LS updates post-HoT that we logged in during, but couldn’t play because we didn’t have the expansion?

Agreed.

I don’t need an extra character slot. I need to see that there’s enough playable content to warrant $50. I’ve seen a lot of interesting update stuff, like a new profession, elite specializations, gliding, masteries, but none of that is going to significantly extend the life of the game $50 worth unless there is significantly more stuff to do and area to explore.

ICEing.9237:

This is short and sweet. It’s a cycle that I’ve seen happen over and over again.

Anet will release or change something. Like Megaserver for example. People immediately start complaining on the forums, the pages are filled with topics: “I’m quitting!” “Let’s make Anet hear us!”

Anet will not change anything. They are in the buisness to make money. Just like the era of Megaserver, they will ignore EVERYTHING you guys say until things die down. They know eventually you will accept it and buy the expac anyway. Just like it took about a month to accept the Megaserver, * and now nobody complains and have grown to accept it*, it will be the same here.

And the folks at Anet are probably laughing at the threats to not buy the expansion when they know well, when it releases and people realize the price will be the same, they will purchase it anyway. All while copy pasting reassuring messages your complaints are being heard.

That’s how it is.

You’re right about everything except what I’ve bolded. People still grumble about the Megaserver. That’s how it works. The forums rage for a while, people who are upset enough leave the game, everyone else calms down and goes on playing with a little bit of grudge against ArenaNet.

Hey, there are still plenty of us grumbling about Ascended gear, and that was introduced a few months after launch.

Yes, the rage dies down, but it doesn’t disappear. It just settles into simmering dissatisfaction that makes the next rage-storm that much easier.

KGS.9842:

neither the price, nor the slot is an issue here

Perhaps for you. The price is the only issue for me. It doesn’t seem to match the value of what I’ve seen so far of HoT. Then again, it’s possible the extent of new content has yet to be revealed.

Others are mostly concerned about the lack of a new slot to make a Revenant, which means they’ll actually pay $10 more than everyone else.

I know I’m in the minority, but I’ve seen at least as many people primarily concerned with the character slot as there are who are concerned newbies are getting the base game while veterans don’t.

Thanks Matazeruz. Yes, it’s clear that future LS updates will require HoT to experience. I could see the login unlocks going either way, though. It’s entirely within the realm of possibility that they will code it in such a way that you only get login credit toward LS chapters if you have purchased HoT.

Since this thread is being read, I just want to go on record that adding an extra character slot to the standard edition would do nothing to entice me to buy HoT for $50. I already have a character slot ready for a Revenant.

For me, it comes down to not seeing $50 worth of value in what we’ve seen of HoT so far. It’s possible in a future beta there will be vastly more content than it currently seems, and I’ll revise that, but for the moment I will be waiting until HoT is discounted to somewhere around $30 before I’ll pick it up for the four accounts owned by my family.

warbignime.4610:

All the arguments and rioting are getting ridiculous.

I missed the part where people were breaking windows and flipping cop cars. Is that happening in Seattle?

chemiclord.3978:

I’m not sure what price tag you were expecting, but if it was much lower than what we got, you were deluding yourself, and that’s frankly not Arena.net’s problem.

Unless a significant enough portion of the players were deluding themselves that it means they don’t meet sales projections. Then it is their problem.

Not saying that will happen, just pointing out that it all comes down to the bottom line, whether the price is “fair” or not.

On the other hand, any decent business prefers that an unhappy customer expresses themselves rather than just quietly ceasing to be a customer.

But yes, the rage and derision both sides are heaping on each other is ridiculous. Everyone will decide whether the price is worth it or not for themselves, and that will add up to satisfying or unsatisfying sales for ArenaNet, who will then adjust accordingly.

I made my choice, and my family and I will be playing Heart of Thorns when it goes on deep discount.

For now, we get to play Marvel Heroes.

Look, it comes down to a personal decision for any player. Some may find $50 to be fine for what we’ve seen so far, others may not. That’s how consumers function. Better for ArenaNet for customers to explain why they decided not to buy the game, then to quietly move away and find something else to do.

No one is going to convince anyone else, especially with the lack of information we currently have on the full extent of the expansion.

Please leave hot-button words like “entitled” and “spoiled” and “brats” and “white knights” out of the conversation.

Either players will decide it’s worth buying, or they won’t. Either ArenaNet will meet sales projections or they won’t. But there’s no point in heaping derision on people who don’t agree with you.

There’s been a lot of people reminding us that there will be more living story updates that add on to HoT at some future point after the expansions launch. Previously, we had to log on during a living story release to unlock it on our account for future use, or pay to unlock it afteward.

How will this work with Heart of Thorns? On subsequent LS updates, will I have to have HoT purchased and log on to make sure I can play those chapters in the future, or will it be sufficient to log on a vanilla GW2 player to make sure those updates are unlocked whenever I purchase HoT?

Hypothetical: I wait one year to buy HoT. During that time ArenaNet releases six new LS chapters advancing the story past HoT. If I faithfully logged on to GW2 daily between HoT launch and when I bought it, would I find that all those living story chapters were unlocked and ready to play when I finally purchase HoT, or would I then also have to put down additional money to get those chapters?

Brother Grimm.5176:

My thoughts exactly. I’ve been playing this game for 3 years and I can take a break for several months. My guess is Anet may think it’s a big deal if a significant number of players feel the same….

And given the serious bugs we’re used to on patch day, waiting until the first Christmas sale could be wise for other reasons than purely money.

The email I got from ArenaNet tells me that “The Ultimate edition will not be available as an upgrade and must be purchased as a full game package”.

It doesn’t say that about either Standard or Deluxe. Does that mean some time in the future we will be able to purchase Standard HoT and Deluxe HoT at a reduced price as an upgrade to our basic GW2 account?

Pimsley.6087:

You’re only punishing yourselves. They aren’t going to change their prices. Get better jobs if this is too steep a price.

It has absolutely nothing to do with whether I have the disposable income for this. It has everything to do with whether I feel there is $50 of value in what I’ve seen of HoT. I can go out and get an entirely new game for that price.

My family with 4 accounts will not be purchasing HoT until sales bring the price down to about $30.

Simple solution, and we don’t even need ArenaNet to agree.

Enough of the player base decides not to purchase HoT right away. We’ll see sales soon enough.

Obtena.7952:

None of this QQ is new and the reasons for it are still silly. In a game where PVE is balanced around Green/Yellow gear, it’s frankly quite dumb to complain that the gear two levels above THAT balancing point is getting a buff. Carry on.

None of your derision is new and the reason for it is still silly. In a game featuring a steady character power progression it’s frankly quite dumb to expect people to swallow a sudden spike right at the end of the curve or be satisfied with never completing that progression. Carry on.

BrickFurious.7169:

Is there something wrong with making best-in-slot gear reasonably obtainable?

The one thing wrong with it is that there is a portion of players who want to treat a video game like a full time job or hobby. There’s no way to generate enough content for them, so you have to keep them playing with dangling carrots, unless you’re content to do without that portion of the MMORPG population.

I understand it isn’t a huge difference between exotic and ascended, but BiS is BiS. There’s a rather large psychological satisfaction in knowing your character is geared to the max, and conversely there’s a psychological dissatisfaction in knowing when it isn’t. This change is only going to increase that dissatisfaction among players to whom ascended gear feels unfairly difficult to obtain (especially WvW players).

Thank you for articulating this. It’s what the “you don’t need it to do anything but high level fractals” crowd just doesn’t get.

These games feature a character progression scheme. Putting a sudden spike in the progression curve one step from the end and telling them to just be satisfied with second best is jarring, at best. The thing that keeps people grumbling a little but continuing to play the game was the small stat increase that gear gave. A move toward increasing the gap just alienates more players and makes it harder for them to ignore.

chronometria.3708:

The mats price is going to skyrocket from its current position of “ridiculous” into the level of “mickey mouse magic money price”.

Its just going to be crazy.

http://www.gw2spidy.com/item/19748

MiniEquine.6014:

It’s taking off now, but it’s gone through these cycles before. For the entire Fall of 2014 the cost was higher than it is now by almost 50s. When the changes come in and the markets cool down it may eventually settle out or even drop down again. More people will be farming the new area salvaging gear and the markets may even see an overabundance of materials until maybe a few months after release when people want to keep crafting again.

The sticky bit is the lower-tier mats that won’t be dropping in the new areas, unless ArenaNet plans to change that.

Relshdan.6854:

that extra 5% on ascended isn’t going to make or break anything in wvw that skillful play can’t overcome….just like now.

How many extra 5%s would it take to make or break something? Where is the threshold?