Give me game. Not grind, not gating, not RNG, not +stat junk, not checklists.
(edited by Harbard.5738)
I’m giving them a lame second chance, by turning the game into just something I play in between other games and probably not gonna spend much time and definitely no money unless they detract from this grindy, slow-treadmill bs and add some real good stuff to make multiple builds and multiple gear possible. I’m not holding my breath though.
Give me game. Not grind, not gating, not RNG, not +stat junk, not checklists.
Well that sounded like trolling with a smile but i’ll give you the benefit of the doubt. The AMA hasn’t changed much to me, or changed all the pre-release material. It was due a long time and very appreciated, but the game is still pretty broken. So I’m still not feeling like playing it at all. I don’t have the motivation to play it until/if the grind is gone and WvW doesn’t have a power creep threat looming over it. I’ll keep checking on and off , but definitely not holding my breath.
My guess is that the silence of those who were complaining vociferously is just the apathy after the closure given by the AMA. If the president says slow-treadmill is the innovative way to go about MMOs, then there’s nothing to be done.
Give me game. Not grind, not gating, not RNG, not +stat junk, not checklists.
(edited by Harbard.5738)
I wanted to post this in a separate thread so it doesn’t get drowned in bickering and complaints.
—
To non redditors like me, it’s totally insane to navigate that thing during the first contact, so I wanted to make non redditor’s life easier. It’s simple but it can be easily overlooked by the ienxperienced.
Here are the links to ALL the answers given during the AMA:
Chris:
http://www.reddit.com/user/ArenaNetTeam
Mike O:
http://www.reddit.com/user/Mike-OBrien-ArenaNet
Right under the answers you’ll see a little link “context” that will show what the question was and the other replies. This way it looks somewhat more like a thread and makes it easier to see EVERYTHING the devs said during the AMA.
Hope it was helpful =)
Give me game. Not grind, not gating, not RNG, not +stat junk, not checklists.
First of all: They DID say what their intentions for the game were, and you should really read Mike O’s answers. They came out and took the time to tell us where the game is going. That was due and very appreciated. Stop demanding kitten, specially perfect answers “now”. It’s really annoying and only makes you all sound like kittens.
I suggest you guys read EVERY answer by them before you claim they say something they didn’t or reducing this to a PR spin and the other words people are vomiting so often that they’re losing their meaning.
Chris:
http://www.reddit.com/user/ArenaNetTeam
Mike O:
http://www.reddit.com/user/Mike-OBrien-ArenaNet
To people still trying hard to believe there’s no treadmill: They already said the level cap will increase at some point, probably in expansions. Guess what? gear stats will increase too. Chris was also VERY careful and made a disclaimer every time so people don’t call him liar later. Stats WILL increase, rarity tiers will not increase FOR THE FORESEEABLE FUTURE. Wake up!
That said, I’m personally not convinced the game is going anywhere good. Not because i think they’re liars or the such. I’m just not sure they know what they’re doing. They are definitely not being that innovative about things, as they jump in the statflation road. It really bugs the crap out of me, because it make is it really impossible to have fun and gear up alts and have multiple sets for different builds.
So, I’m out until they come up with something wonderful to make the grinders and the actual gamers synergize in a beautiful and awesome way in a truly grindless environment, like they said during the AMA.
Give me game. Not grind, not gating, not RNG, not +stat junk, not checklists.
(edited by Harbard.5738)
He has a point, though. Getting dungeon sets is a thankless grind. I gave up on it because of the clunky tokens taking up space, the endless LFG for anything that wasn’t TA or AC and the forced repetition
Give me game. Not grind, not gating, not RNG, not +stat junk, not checklists.
i’d go as far as saying that gates and walls should be immune to anything but siege, and only destroyable by the right type of siege. Normal attacks would do 0 damage. That alone would nullify the zerg factor in the cap speed of fortified spots. That would help making capturing keeps meaningful.
Give me game. Not grind, not gating, not RNG, not +stat junk, not checklists.
LOL thanks for the laugh. Almost made me come back to Sanctum of Rall. But i guarantee I’ll make this a tradition in my new server if I come back to the game haha
Give me game. Not grind, not gating, not RNG, not +stat junk, not checklists.
They used to be really bad for the game. It was part of my daily game day to report each and every one of them, painstakingly, to protect ANet revenue and the health fo the game.
Now? Now, I don’t know. Depends on how cutthroat they get with pushing the cash shop by drying out the gold and cranking up the grind for stats, in which case i’ll hope the bots and gold sellers screw them over really good. Their attitude in the coming months will tell me if bots are good or bad.
Give me game. Not grind, not gating, not RNG, not +stat junk, not checklists.
(edited by Harbard.5738)
So you either have a smooth run at full efficiency with less drops or you have a less smooth run with more drops. Assuming equal skill, the ones who contribute less get more rewards and get carried around by the ones with proper gear, who get less rewards. Moreover, when you have proper gear, you feel you’re missing out on rewards.
Magic find on gear is one of the most stupid ideas in this game so far, and it’s not even a matter of playstyle and player preference. It just doesn’t make any sense. There is no intelligent argument to keep MF in gear. “Run with a guild” is not an argument, just a (bad) suggestion to avoid a bad thing for dungeon runners, coming from a bad idea.
MF should remain only on consumables, period.
Give me game. Not grind, not gating, not RNG, not +stat junk, not checklists.
Are you people crazy? Don’t you remmeber sitting your kitten 10 mins in a keep for a AoE port after you died? The ridiculous grind for ToA kitten? (well that is inc now on GW2) Or maybe how you were useless under realm rank/level X? How god awfully painful it was to balance resistances and get a crafter to make you kitten only to have it replaced for new kitten later?
But yeah, I’m sure making keeps, at least some of them, a more permanent capture would definitely make things more meaningful.
Give me game. Not grind, not gating, not RNG, not +stat junk, not checklists.
That would be the day i’d re-buy the game. But trust me, they will push Pay 2 win on WvW, guys. It will be cash shoppers vs grinders. No room for real gamers in the near future, i’m afraid. I wouldn’t wait to see. i’d jump the boat and get a refund while you can. This game is a goner. If a miracle happens you can always buy it again.
Give me game. Not grind, not gating, not RNG, not +stat junk, not checklists.
(edited by Harbard.5738)
Very very good write up! This is how I feel. i want attainable, set in stone, permanent goals. All the above goes to level caps as well.
If there’s no PERMANENT (aka rock solid never changing again in the story of the game) stat and level cap in the game, acquiring gear is pointless. There’s no goal, just a carrot, carrots are unattainable goals made to fool stupid donkeys. It’s not a goal if it can’t be reached permanently. Everything just feels ridiculously pointless.
A permanent written in stone stat AND level cap is also sorely needed in competitive environments where gear counts, like WvW. And if it takes too long to reach the gear cap and/or is keeps increasing forever, WvW loses its point entirely, it becomes a de facto pay 2 win even if the (current) max stat gears are available to non buyers, because they can’t actually humanly reach it unless they put up with a lot of crap.
More over, raising stats constantly is immoral and disrespectful. It is a cheap cheap baiting gimmick to keep people invested, thankfully people are increasingly wising up to it.
I’m confident that ANet respects its players’ intelligence and won’t resource to this ever again. Because that’s admitting the game has nothing to show for and has no genuine reasons to keep people playing, other than conditioning and unattainable goals.
Give me game. Not grind, not gating, not RNG, not +stat junk, not checklists.
(edited by Harbard.5738)
AMA on Monday, the communication bridge is there, hopefully. I hope people cool down until then. I know I have. Thanks for the post, it’s full of win.
From a not so young player =)
Give me game. Not grind, not gating, not RNG, not +stat junk, not checklists.
Disrespect for a management that disrespected you as a customer is expected, but should be avoided because it’s not productive. If you feel disrespected you should be reaching out other people who feel the same and do something productive about it, to hold them accountable.
Disrespect for technical problems and content that fell short is HIGHLY uncalled for and totally unfair. Especially attacking the devs skills on their own forum. It has to stop NOW. It’s unacceptable.
Get your aim straight, people.
Give me game. Not grind, not gating, not RNG, not +stat junk, not checklists.
(edited by Harbard.5738)
I’m absolutely positive if they made WvW an even playing field (ala SPvP) you wouldn’t have this much negativity on the forums. PvE people can play their game – carrot and all!
Absolutely right! If there wasn’t the looming threat of pay to win (at WvW) and a very very unfair, zero skill and pointless WvW, most complaints would come from jealous people or people who are absolutely desperate to have top tier stuff “NOW” (very illegitimate IMO) and people who think there will be gear checks and discrimination (very legitimate, but could still be worked around without removing stat progression).
Give me game. Not grind, not gating, not RNG, not +stat junk, not checklists.
Ascended gear and vertical stat progression:
- Will the stat progression peak FOREVER at one point as in Guild Wars 1 and never increase again?
- *Is ANet keeping the (very steep) grind for stats represented by ascended gear the same way it is now? *
- Are there plans for future higher tiers of gear?
- Are there plans for future tiers of infusions for ascended gear?
WvW:
- If stats are going to keep increasing, is there a plan to isolate WvW from the increasing gear gap to keep it minimally fun?
- Is the cash shop heading to a Pay to Win model, having in mind the steep grind for stats recently introduced and the high competitive advantage that gear gives in WvW?
Open world
- What is going to be done to address open world zones from going obsolete after you’re past their level range?
- What is going to make people play OUT of instances again after they’re 80?
General heading of the game
- What kind of player are you trying to cater to? Have you switched your target audience?
- Why do we have to grind for stats now? What happened to the “grind for looks only” philosophy?
- Why did you drop the “the whole game is the endgame” premise? What’s the new premise?
- Was there a change in management?
- How do you feel about people that say you betrayed your Manifesto?
By the way, thanks for taking the non-redditor questions to the AMA and keeping it objective and constructive =)
Give me game. Not grind, not gating, not RNG, not +stat junk, not checklists.
(edited by Harbard.5738)
The OP is answering its own question.
For people saying that getting new crap is “something to do” I really loathe your level of conditioning. Seems you learned nothing from Everquest, then, after a decade. You’re supposed to be playing a real game, not a slot machine. People actually demanding “rewards” and playing for stat baits have been turned into this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_ctJqjlrHA
With the only difference this pigeon is getting a NECESSARY and tangible reward. Not an ever inflating integer that equals to absolutely nothing.
Give me game. Not grind, not gating, not RNG, not +stat junk, not checklists.
Fine, i’ll bite ¬¬
Yes I think they have the skills to make a kick kitten game in almost every department, be it technical, be it in creativity or innovation, assuming those people are still there. If that people are still there, they should be allowed to work and do what they do (assuming the case is management pressure). But since we know kitten of what’s going on, what does our opinion amount to? And this soon?
Give me game. Not grind, not gating, not RNG, not +stat junk, not checklists.
Seriously, this is baiting negativity for the sake of it. Stop, people.
Give me game. Not grind, not gating, not RNG, not +stat junk, not checklists.
It’s TOO soon to ask this. Not even a week folks!! Really? It’s not fair! Please, stop!! It’s insulting to them and it’s only lowering the chances of decent communication.
GIVE THEM TIME.
If this gets moderated, it’s fair (for a change)
Give me game. Not grind, not gating, not RNG, not +stat junk, not checklists.
(edited by Harbard.5738)
Was World of Tanks ‘pay to win’ or “pay to not grind your kitten off” or pay for better looking tanks, decals, stuff like that? How did the game fair? This is an honest question, not rhetorical. I’ve never played it.
Give me game. Not grind, not gating, not RNG, not +stat junk, not checklists.
It’s not about treating people worse or better. No one should be treated any different based on their playstyle; that’s preposterous. I’m trying to tell him that he paid for a game to have fun and they made it boring now, but instead of taking his money out of the game or staying and asking that it’s made fun again, he wants to pour more money into it. What he’s doing is not smart and is exactly what the usual greedy f2p model would want from him. It’s a model that rewards lame games that don’t sell real content. So what happens to the future quality of GW2 with a cash shop like this?
A cash shop model from low-budget moneygrab asian game? Is that what you want? Just stop and think Kathmandu, you’re smarter than that.
Give me game. Not grind, not gating, not RNG, not +stat junk, not checklists.
(edited by Harbard.5738)
By “difficulty of the grind” you mean “tedious involved in the grind”. yeah because you are supposed to buy games because they’re tedious them pay more so they are fun again.
Give me game. Not grind, not gating, not RNG, not +stat junk, not checklists.
I don’t enjoy grinding, nobody enjoy tedious gameplay! But I pay for games that respect me, that offer me real value, not bait me into bullkitten digital property. I pay for content, pay for fun. I pay for content that’s given to me in an honest way. But fine, go ahead, join the cash shop sucker crowd if they keep going that way. You’ll be funding the game so the target audience that is turning it into a grind can play for free.
I’ve been checking your posts, you don’t seen to be a troll, or maybe you’re disgruntled and came to waste everybody’s time. But if you’re that blind, I’m really sorry for you.
Give me game. Not grind, not gating, not RNG, not +stat junk, not checklists.
(edited by Harbard.5738)
Dude, you’re giving in to a cheap old dishonest f2p gimmick. They add the grind to make you pay for its removal.
In fact I already saw posts of people who bought gold for their exotics with cash and are complaining that they thought they would be “done” with it. Now you’re never done with it. You’ll keep paying for gear on a manufactured need created by the company, not real value. C’mon, self respect.
And yes as it currently is with WvW it will be pay to win. It is already pay to win, but you have to pay a lot and the gear gap it’s not that big so everyone is ok with it. Now the gear gap is bound to keep increasing, eventually it’s gonna be a scandal if they don’t isolate the gear grind from WvW.
Give me game. Not grind, not gating, not RNG, not +stat junk, not checklists.
There are so any horrible games under the MMO umbrella and so many of them based on gear bait/cheap cash shop baits that everyone think this is a norm.
Now you say MMO people assume this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_ctJqjlrHA
Then here’s a game that was going to break the pattern. Not anymore. I think MMO can now be officially be recognized as gambling and conditioning and not a real gaming genre.
Give me game. Not grind, not gating, not RNG, not +stat junk, not checklists.
Bigger stats, tougher mobs, same math. Same old song and dance, apparently.
Give me game. Not grind, not gating, not RNG, not +stat junk, not checklists.
Just because you have a lot of time to spend in the game doesn’t mean you’d be ok with treadmills and grind.
I have a lot of free time and I used to love both PvE and WvW. I’ve sunk 600+ hours into the game and i think new grind for stats is a disgrace. It’s a cheap gimmick to keep people playing and it’s insulting. So far it has worked to keep me from playing and not the the opposite.
Even if I HAVE the time I won’t buy into this.
Give me game. Not grind, not gating, not RNG, not +stat junk, not checklists.
Since they’re trashing everything, might as well add the gear to the cash shop. Apparently there are plenty of suckers for this cheap f2p model that deliberately introduces tedious gameplay with a solution on the cash shop to every manufactured need. Apparently they can’t come up with anything of value, or they just go for the suckers because it’s easier.
Give me game. Not grind, not gating, not RNG, not +stat junk, not checklists.
(edited by Harbard.5738)
You just deleted the 210+ page thread and not even MENTIONED ascended items in the feedback you just asked!! Why?
Give me game. Not grind, not gating, not RNG, not +stat junk, not checklists.
(edited by Harbard.5738)
Is ANet going to say/do something or should we start picking the new name too? Grind Wars 2, Clone Wars 2…
Give me game. Not grind, not gating, not RNG, not +stat junk, not checklists.
3) is your fault. If find outrageous that some people get naked to save money lol
But yeah, the design currently can make it hard to find groups.
Give me game. Not grind, not gating, not RNG, not +stat junk, not checklists.
Stop! This is not a negative input thread, there are many already.
- Use of environment in the fractals
- Jumping puzzles
- Jumping puzzles IN dungeons \o/
- MOVING jumping puzzles (i loved the clock tower despite the glitches and I’d like to see more)
- The concept of adding content with a great event (just need to iron out the technicalities)
- The concept of involving players in the discovery of new lands
- Sweet and smooth combat animations
- Awesomely crafted world, lot’s of ins and outs, sub zones, caves etc, doesn’t even feel like they’re boxes
- Massive zergfests (yes they are fun, shut up! Even zerging an ore node is fun-er!)
- Sieges!
There’s a LOT of stuff done right or that just need some improvements in this game. Don’t trash it all, ANet! Keep the good stuff coming!
Give me game. Not grind, not gating, not RNG, not +stat junk, not checklists.
(edited by Harbard.5738)
If things keep going this way, WvW will have an increasing gear gap. Every new content patch you’ll be weaker than the braindead carrot chasers and you’ll start getting stomped. Then you have two options: playing in an increasingly unfair WvW where leveling there is not even a possibility anymore or grind the kitten out with your chars. Maybe they’re even going to add a third option for you: Use the grind as a cheap cash shop bait to push you to buy crap for this manufactured need. As it currently stands, I wouldn’t be too shocked at this new low.
You know i like the vertical progression in the game was until exotics. i think it’s fun when it’s like that. Past that it’s just making an U turn on the whole “respect the player as human beings, people with lives, families…” in their Golden Rules (not so golden anymore, apparently) .
Check Respect for the Player
http://www.arena.net/blog/the-golden-rules-of-guild-wars-2
Give me game. Not grind, not gating, not RNG, not +stat junk, not checklists.
The fractals are kittenin brilliant. It just needs to allow groups to choose any difficulty level to stop segregating people. it’s fun, engaging, challenging and innovative.
The itemization and grind that came with it, though, is pure garbage. It’s an insult.
Give me game. Not grind, not gating, not RNG, not +stat junk, not checklists.
If there’s some sort of hijacking going on let arena net alone to do their thing! Its agonizing to see this game like this!
Give me game. Not grind, not gating, not RNG, not +stat junk, not checklists.
Maybe it’s time to let go Sam. I mean this in the best way possible. The game fell short in some/many aspects, depends on your preferences, and most of it can’t be changed, it’s a take it or leave it. No point in list them over and over. The manifesto-amended, maybe a little hope this week, but that’s it. Wait for the closure, refund if you can, move on.
Give me game. Not grind, not gating, not RNG, not +stat junk, not checklists.
This is one of the best MMO I have played in ~15 years, with the best potential, and probably the fastest gone bad.
Despite the bugs and technical difficulties it kept me coming and i was perfectly satisfied until last week.
Maybe if they man up soon enough and keep to their advertised principles it will keep being awesome. I still have a little hope they won’t kitten up.
Give me game. Not grind, not gating, not RNG, not +stat junk, not checklists.
I hear ya OP. But face it. They have switched their target audience just like it was everyday business and the new audience gets to mock us too.
I’m just waiting around a week until they man up and give this some closure by officially stating the future of the game and commenting on the state of the game now vs their manifesto and pre-release material. But I suppose we can’t expect that much respect after all this, right?
Give me game. Not grind, not gating, not RNG, not +stat junk, not checklists.
(edited by Harbard.5738)
What do you expect them to say? ‘You have been PUNK’D! We were just messing with ya! Ha Ha!’
But yeah, at least grow a pair and make it official.
Give me game. Not grind, not gating, not RNG, not +stat junk, not checklists.
“This is just the beginning. In November, we’re only adding the first level of Infusions and Ascended Rings and Back slots, so that leaves us a lot of room to build upon these levels of Item progression in future content. As we release more new end game content in the future, you’ll see more Infusions and Ascended item types being added to the game. Eventually, you’ll be able to kit yourself out with a full set of Ascended gear and high end Infusions to help give you the edge in end game content.”
- Lindsey Murdock, Game Designer
3 Months Earlier
http://venturebeat.c...s:guildwars2-16
“Here’s what we believe: If someone wants to play for a thousand hours to get an item that is so rare that other players can’t realistically acquire it, that rare item should be differentiated by its visual appearance and rarity alone, not by being more powerful than everything else in the game. Otherwise, your MMO becomes all about grinding to get the best gear. We don’t make grindy games — we leave the grind to other MMOs.”
-Mike Obrien, President of Arenanet
People should start pasting this left and right
Give me game. Not grind, not gating, not RNG, not +stat junk, not checklists.
The new content is brilliant. Too bad now it does feel it’s all about the loot.
The game wants to please the same old braindead greedy players that pay for kitteny mmos.
The stupid new shinnies are sitting on my char and not bound yet . I think i’ll just give them away in lion’s arch to whomever humiliates themselves the most and youtube it, just to prove this point. I did this back in Everquest and you’d be saddened and amused at the same time by the results.
Look at the people on the forums/game lately: Whining about drops they didn’t get during the event they missed, people suddenly being happy after hours of whining about lag just because they got new semi-uber shinnies that will be junk soon. Did you see those people whining about gold drops and comparing stuff like “how much gold you make per hour in X place after the patch?”. I mean seriously gold/hour drops/hour? Screw this people!
Give me game. Not grind, not gating, not RNG, not +stat junk, not checklists.
(edited by Harbard.5738)
All excellent posts.
I agree with all but one or 2 bullet points. It was always clear to me where the flaws were and where the devs were “chickening out”, but I had decided to live with it. I was still ok with everything GW2 wasn’t vs what GW2 was… until the middle of last week. I could have given them all the time in the world, even if that was ‘never’ for most things. But ascended is an insult. That made totally intolerant to everything I had decided to accept/avoid/compromise/rationalize. They just finished breaking the whole deal. I think it’s time to admit the last attempt at something better for the genre, that would turn skinner boxes into real games, failed miserably.
The fact we’re still here with some hope at all is the saddest part, though. Still managing to let it go. It would have been a lot easier to swallow if it was just an unfortunate set of events and not just outright lying to your face.
Give me game. Not grind, not gating, not RNG, not +stat junk, not checklists.
- Grind
- Ascended
- Being lied to
JUST that. Everything was going fine fine fine in its due time. But this? kitten this.
Give me game. Not grind, not gating, not RNG, not +stat junk, not checklists.
I really hope they are gathering this feedback to shove in the face of whoever out of ANet forced them to do it so he/she/it stays out of their business for good. Yeah, one can hope.
Give me game. Not grind, not gating, not RNG, not +stat junk, not checklists.
Great, now it’s gonna be a grindfest with a holy trinity in it.
Give me game. Not grind, not gating, not RNG, not +stat junk, not checklists.
If this is the case, then it’s really sad how all of the potential GW2 had could be thrown out the window by a few (or one) executive at the top.
Yeah, then I wish I could throw HIM/HER/IT out of the window
Give me game. Not grind, not gating, not RNG, not +stat junk, not checklists.
Companies don’t feel or hear unless it’s in their pockets. I say everyone who’s ready to quit GET A REFUND. I’m still trying to reason with them, if not I’ll charge back if it doesn’t work, i’ll appeal to whatever I can.
Give me game. Not grind, not gating, not RNG, not +stat junk, not checklists.
Yeah go greedy kittens, meow.
Give me game. Not grind, not gating, not RNG, not +stat junk, not checklists.