Guild Wars 2

Use your Insignia of the Alliance/Horde

phys.7689:

Javonovich.5280:

For me, my favorite part of GW1 was vanquishing because I could revisit all of the areas I went through with a new purpose. In GW2, I feel like there is a massive world out there with absolutely no reason for me to go. I also like the GW1 dungeons because they were challenging but soloable. I don’t usually like playing with other people in organized groups too much because I can’t do that casually. For example, on GW1, I could jump right into Frostmaw’s Burrows if I wanted without the headache of trying to organize a team.

Right now I’ve been doing a lot of SoloQ because my server isn’t the greatest at WvW, and to be honest, I don’t much like WvW because of food, perplexity runes, unstandardized gear, etc. So I stick with spvp where a little more skill is needed. Now if ANET allowed everyone to pvp in WvW with the free runes and gear like the pvp system in GW1, it would be a lot different for me. Then I would be able to gear up my toons solely for pve and not have to double grind to outfit them for WvW and also for dungeons and open world pve.

All in all GW2 is a great game, but the more I play it, the more I realize it isn’t for me. I know some people didn’t like it, but my favorite part of GW2 was exploring new areas, getting vistas, completing maps, and stumbling onto jumping puzzles. But now that I’ve gone through all of the open world, what once was a huge game is now rather limited for me. I wouldn’t mind going back to some of my favorite GW2 areas if I only had a real incentive to do it.

this touches on some of the big things i think gw2 is missing,

1)there is nothing you can do as solo or small team that is under your control. Essentially no small team play with an objective that isnt so easy you cant lose.
in gw1, it was all like that. You could do a mission, or vanquish, or attempt a dungeon. Here, the only thing similar to that is dungeons, which is a 5 man affair. There are a few dynamic event chains that give that feel, but they are few, and they may not be happening at any time.
Essentially, i cant hop on and just do some small objective, i think thats why people used to like personal story key runs to some extent.

2)there isnt much to do in the world once you have done it all. after you get to max level, basically the game is all about some sort of repetive grind for max gold if you arent pvping. Very little interesting repeatable content.

I agree with you that ANET is going in the direction of replaying content, but I can’t pat them on the back yet. GW1 allowed us to replay story content (missions) AND play through the world content again in the form of vanquishing. GW2 seems behind in many of these key features. It’s almost as if a whole different company made GW2.

Moreover, I don’t find the living story very challenging. And achievements that are sort of grindy or frustrating aren’t what we need, either, but that also seems like the direction ANET is going in. GW1’s hard mode was just that: Hard. In some areas, it was ruthlessly hard. And yet, the content was still soloable for the casuals and fun to fly through for the organized groups. But best of all, the content was worth repeating because the rewards in hard mode were profitable. Why should I do dungeon content and go through the stress of finding a group (not to mention gearing for a dungeon which isn’t cheap) when the rewards are lackluster? Why repeat the LS content at all only to complete some uninspired achievements?

Man, talking about this really makes me mad. I’d play GW1 because it was fun, not for any kind of aesthetic rewards. And you know? I actually got almost all of those rewards anyway as a simple biproduct of just playing the game. Unfortunately, in GW2 the best rewards are the lamest most boring grinds I’ve ever done (foxfire clusters or saving gold for precursors, anyone?).

For me, my favorite part of GW1 was vanquishing because I could revisit all of the areas I went through with a new purpose. In GW2, I feel like there is a massive world out there with absolutely no reason for me to go. I also like the GW1 dungeons because they were challenging but soloable. I don’t usually like playing with other people in organized groups too much because I can’t do that casually. For example, on GW1, I could jump right into Frostmaw’s Burrows if I wanted without the headache of trying to organize a team.

Right now I’ve been doing a lot of SoloQ because my server isn’t the greatest at WvW, and to be honest, I don’t much like WvW because of food, perplexity runes, unstandardized gear, etc. So I stick with spvp where a little more skill is needed. Now if ANET allowed everyone to pvp in WvW with the free runes and gear like the pvp system in GW1, it would be a lot different for me. Then I would be able to gear up my toons solely for pve and not have to double grind to outfit them for WvW and also for dungeons and open world pve.

All in all GW2 is a great game, but the more I play it, the more I realize it isn’t for me. I know some people didn’t like it, but my favorite part of GW2 was exploring new areas, getting vistas, completing maps, and stumbling onto jumping puzzles. But now that I’ve gone through all of the open world, what once was a huge game is now rather limited for me. I wouldn’t mind going back to some of my favorite GW2 areas if I only had a real incentive to do it.

Sebrent.3625:

@Javonovich.5280:
I didn’t say Ranger hard counters them, but Ranger is far from helpless against them and does have methods for dealing with both those builds … as I pointed out. Reading comprehension ftw.

Cam Ron.4170:
After you dodge a Rapid Fire, what do you need to dodge from a longbow for the next 8 to 10 seconds? Auto-attacks?

If they switch weapons, you just forced them out of the “OP” weapon you’re so bothered by for 9+ seconds.

Let me know when I can dodge roll twice against one Thief weapon set and not have to dodge anything but auto-attacks (backstab isn’t AA btw) for 8 to 10 seconds.

You must be trolling.

Reading comp, indeed. I never stated in my original post whether Rangers could or could not handle Warrs or Mesmers. I stated that ANET’s balance philosophy ruined rangers LIKE it ruined Mesmers and Warriors.

Then you ranted about counters. Why? I have no idea.

In my reply I never even said “hard counter,” so I have no idea what you’re talking about. I only followed what you said: Mesmers and Warriors are easy to beat. LB Rangers are even easier. So… according to which class?

Substance E,

Not sure what you’re getting at because I agree completely. I even drew an analogy to “Mesmers with the PU changes” and “Warriors with the healing sig changes.” Bunkers fit in there, too, along with turret engins, some ele builds, etc. In wvw it’s not so bad, but in spvp, it’s a nightmare. This is partially because of the fact that we have no good game modes, so “balance” is balanced around the Capture the Point maps. If we had other game modes, this discussion would be a lot different.

If rangers counter Warrs and Mesmers, but Rangers are easier to kill than both of those classes, then I’d LOVE to know what amazing class you play.

Still, I’m not convinced you know what you’re talking about. Warriors have essentially been neutered by the Adren nerf. No one is afraid of them anymore (except you).

Have to agree with the OP on this. These LB buffs do absolutely nothing to add skill or intrigue to the game. It’s typical ANET b.s.—give a suffering class a one-shot wonder move/trait and call it “balance.” We saw this happen to Mesmers with the PU changes, Warriors with the healing sig changes, etc.

This is a dangerous and reckless “balance” philosophy. It endangers the future of this game as any kind of serious PVP contender, endangers the Ranger class in general, and will cause many Rangers to use this cheese build without understanding their class, thereby affecting the Ranger community as a whole.

Having the same problem. I tried feedback, and it’s just a waste of a slot. Interrupts don’t do kitten because many of them run stability and by the time you strip it, you’re close to being dead and the pet can just finish you off. Reflection on distortion is just ok because it forces you to waste distortion offensely. Mirror is underwhelming because the reflect doesn’t last very long, and again, you don’t want to use that offensively either. IWarden is too slow and traiting focus? You lose too much to counter one class. Finally, the channeled skill tracks you through stealth so that isn’t a viable option.

I’m currently running a standard 4/4/6 interrupt build, but again, the stability is tough to get around. I may switch to shatter. PU really isn’t viable in spvp, so I don’t want to consider that. At least with shatter, I can try to take them out before they take me out.

This is a great thread. I have some gripes about GW2, but one thing I’ve always liked about it—more than any other MMO—is that GW2 tries to encourage players to work together. Grats! And thanks for posting this.

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Javonovich.5280:

Does ANET listen?

If you want to know the answer to that question, then ask yourself, “Is Skyhammer still in soloq?”

That map’s existence in soloq pretty much sums up ANET’s listening skills.

Maybe asking them to remove a map that a developer painstakingly modeled and had implemented because classes that have a harder time in confrontational pvp can suddenly oneshot other people doesn’t sit right with them.

Or maybe not, as they removed Raid on the Capricorn, and that map didn’t receive even a fraction of the ire that Skyhammer has.

Does ANET listen?

If you want to know the answer to that question, then ask yourself, “Is Skyhammer still in soloq?”

That map’s existence in soloq pretty much sums up ANET’s listening skills.

UrMom.4205:

maha.7902:

First they make it possible to blank phantasm summons with blind an invulnerability. Now they make it possible to dodge and blind clone death traits, and reduce the intensity and duration of one of the procs. The best bit is because such a tiny portion of the player base is mesmers they won’t even revert it because we don’t have enough QQ to bring down a castle like the rest of the QQmmunity.

Thats the real problem…this community blows (not the mesmer community, i love you guys)

Trying to wrap my head around the idea that warriors are almost unstoppable for how long? despite the constant QQ. Skyhammer remains in soloq despite constant, daily QQ on the forums? Engins nearly destroyed low-level spvp, but are pretty bad higher up, resulting in quite a bit of QQ. Anyone playing a condi class has QQed for a long time about the mechanics of conditions and stacking.

But hey, at least IE is fixed after 2 straight years of QQ, right?

No idea what goes through ANET’s brain.

Fay.2357:

The PU nerfs are minor in comparison to the clone death nerfs.

Look a PU this way. Now a PU Mesmer also has innate access to both might and swiftness without needing to swap a focus or use stuff like battle runes. That’s more mobility, more chasing ability, and more pressure, for a small sacrifice of defense.

The clone death nerfs, on the other hand, are a perfect example of the Anet brand whack-a-mole balancing. Making them dodgeable, blockable, and blindable is an enormous nerf, on top of an additional unnecessary nerf to an already unreliable bleed application. Those aspects were what let the traits be strong against perma-evade spamming thieves, against blind spam from thieves and guardians and engineers, and just in general made the traits unique and strong.

Absolutely massive nerf. PU condie builds will still work of course, but what this really hits is any non-PU build that is based on those traits. Now the defense and sustain of PU will be 100% essential to viably play a condition build. Once again, Anet succeeds in limiting Mesmer build diversity with heavy handed nerf batting.

Totally agree with you. My first thought when I heard this was “oh boy, maybe now my PU mes can chase.” My second thought was “great, the condi pressure from non-condi builds is now neutered.”

In my opinion, this was an epic Mesmer nerf for just about every build out there, and the irony is that it probably affects PU the least. What doesn’t make any sense is the nerf to debilitation dissipation IN ADDITION TO the clone death nerf. Why not just the clone death nerf by itself? Was that not enough?

These newest changes along with the rest of the skillbar changes remind me of just how clueless ANET seems to be with regard to balance.

CyClotroniC.4957:

As a necro, happy for the DS interaction, it was a really essential thing to do finaly and of course the extra swiftness seems cool too (using warhorn in WvW), but that’s it. Kind of semi-happy right now.

Nothing really done on the condition side, so I’m still waiting to make condi classes somewhat viable for PvE and completely split the game modes. I guess these changes are okay for PvP, but really not helping in PvE so far.

Hope something happens on that field soon.
I mean it’s not only for necros, it should be really a general change to split PvP/PvE once and for all…

Still feeling like the middle stepchild of GW2 classes as a necro.

That’s what gets me, and the reason why I’m so disappointed. This whole game could have benefited from a serious rework of conditions and stacking in pve. It’s one of the biggest complaints about the class—that power builds will usually be better just because of the terrible condition mechanics of this game. I really wish ANET would say something about this.

I love this idea. The first time as a level 80 (with exotics) that I went to a lower level zone with my friend I was very disappointed in how easily I could destroy everything.

I’m a big fan of the world map, so I would be more likely to check out lower level zones if they were a little more challenging for me.

To those who say that we should swap out our gear for whites: Why should we have to do that? The mechanics are already in place to make this happen, so why can’t ANET do this for us? Part of the appeal of the downleveling process was that it was supposed to happen automatically. By asking players to swap out gear, you are asking players to work around a system that isn’t quite good enough.

I’d like for the only advantage we have over the lower levels to be skill and the traits we’ve unlocked.

Nerfs to the thief will really kitten me off. The class is perfectly fine. What broke the class were these ridiculous sigils that let us have defense AND a lot of damage along with equally ridiculous might-stacking potential with certain rune sets.

I played GW1 for a lonnnnnnng time. I was with it from Prophecies and stuck around for all of the expansions. Eye of the North was one of my favorite games. At the same time, my friend and I were really looking forward to GW2. We were both in the closed and open betas and were very optimistic about it.

But lore? I blasted through the GW1 stories to get them done and get a good weapon at the end. I paid attention to the story, and I know it well, but I never thought that GW1 told a really great story. Still, I respected the fact that they tried. Other MMOs don’t really do that (For example, I’ll never forget my disappointment when WoW totally ignored its lore when it was first released).

So going into GW2, I wasn’t expecting much lore-wise. Right now, I feel lukewarm about GW2’s lore. I did the personal story up until the high 70s when the game first came out, but I just found it boring. I couldn’t make any attachments to any characters. Worse was that unlike GW1’s story which terminated in a useful item, I found GW2’s PS story rewards to be totally useless. I mean, when I forced myself to complete the PS I thought I would AT LEAST get an exotic out of it but no. I just got a skin I will probably never use.

That said, GW1 I at least didn’t mind doing, and I’ve done the stories A LOT (in GW1 story completion unlocked hard mode). In fact, repeating missions was often a source of rewards in GW1. In GW2, I doubt I will ever do the PS again. After doing it once, what’s the point?

I should mention though that I am enjoying the LS right now, and I was a big fan of Scarlet. I think GW2 and its lore are improving, but at the expense of the PS.

Thanks for the clarification. I’ll definitely give it a shot.

Does anyone know if the Sorrow’s Furnace music released for one of the Guild Wars 1 minipacks plays anywhere in GW2?

It’s absolutely some of the best video game music I’ve ever heard. I’d love to hear it again in game, but I’ve been disappointed because I haven’t encountered it, especially since GW2 uses much of the score from GW1.

For those of you who haven’t heard the score: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6pc6lMQy4VA

Yes, you’re right. You can get confusion with BA, but taking BA over slight of hand isn’t a good idea. The 20% CD reduction on slight of hand alone makes it worth it. So I don’t see BA as a viable option; I see it as a liability.

I’m just not seeing an advantage to having chill over burning/confusion in a p/d build. Skill #3 means that no one comes near you anyway, so you’re already a kiting god. Burning or confusion increases your damage output by so much that I could never imagine passing one of them up, especially when you already have an on-demand immobilize with skill #2 and an instant get-away-from-me skill #3 (that also applies torment).

P/d is already going to win against just about any melee build you encounter, so I think the extra damage is the way to go. I think the more challenging fights for me with p/d are ranged enemies who I can’t instantly shadowstep away from with skill 3. Of course, that’s probably just a weakness in my play style, so for me it makes more sense to have more damage for those more difficult ranged fights (as chill won’t do much for me there).

As far as Shadow’s Rejuv or Resilience of Shadows, I always go Shadow’s Rejuv because it scales nicely with healing power, whereas Resilience is just a 50% decrease. Also, Shadow’s Rejuv is more reliable because no matter what (I mean unless you’re already at full health), you’ll benefit from the healing. With Resilience of Shadows, you’ll only see a benefit IF you’re attacked in stealth.

It really depends on what you’re using the build for.

I use p/d for wvw roaming in a condition build, so runes of strength don’t make much sense for me. If you build p/d with more power, though, then runes of strength or other might stacking runes might be a little better.

For p/d condi, I use perplexity with slight of hand. Slight of hand is just way too good to pass up. With poison on steal + daze + a well-timed interrupt + the confusion from the perplexity runes and any torments you apply with sigils or venoms, you stack a ridiculous number of conditions at once. My elite is also Basilisk venom for potentially another interrupt between steals.

In my opinion, the only other real viable option is Balth. Burning is incredibly strong, but you need to get used to using withdrawal. Now for the p/d condi build, I just don’t think any other runes even come close to viable b/c condi duration isn’t what makes this build strong; it’s how often (and how easily) you can throw an absurd number of conditions on someone fast enough. Other runes might be cheaper, but again your goal should be to put as many dangerous conditions on your opponent at once. Because the thief does not have skill access to burning or confusion, you want either of them in your rune set to give you access to another condition.

In my opinion, the problem is that runes now allow for crazy might stacks and sigils. Without sigils and might stacking, a 2/0/0/6/6 thief is just annoying because they won’t deal much damage. The s/d meta build takes advantage of the fact that you can now trait defensively while relying on sigil procs + might to make up for the lack of damage. As long as these runes and sigils exist, there is no point thinking about individual skill balance.

For the OP:

1. I’m not a pro, but I agree with others here that the s/d thief is very strong in this meta. With practice, you can kill just about anyone. Better yet is that I actually think the build is fun to play because it doesn’t rely on constant stealth.

2. I avoid fighting conditionmancers. I can take them down about 50% of the time by myself as the posters above have suggested, but why bother? With my superior mobility, I can do something more productive for my team than putz around with a fight in which one mistake = death. If there are multiple conditionmancers on the enemy team, you might have a bigger problem by yourself, but that’s no problem for other toons on your team (I’m looking at you, Warrs).

In SoloQ, conditionmancers are my biggest problem, usually because it’s harder to organize everyone to use their classes optimally. This often forces me into fights that I don’t want to be in.

I use perplexity, and I couldn’t be happier. Perplex with slight of hand is an easy combo to pull off most of the time, giving you the interrupt on top of a stack of confusion. It’s so easy to get confusion+bleed+torment+and poision on a target that it’s scary. Perplex is also nice because you should be in the SA tree, which means you have a little more time to wait for that key skill to interrupt.

Please see this thread:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Few-questions-for-you-P-D-thieves/first#post4212594

I think it should answer your questions about builds, runes, condition duration, armor, etc.

What rotation do you all usually use when running a p/d with a sb and perplex runes?

I’ve been following this thread closely because I had some p/d questions, too.

I went full dire, including weapons, and I decided to splurge for perplexity. I love using slight of hand to cause confusion, so I’m pretty happy with Perplexity so far. I’m not sure if I would have liked Balthazar runes more, and I don’t have the money to switch between them.

All in all, I’m finding the condition thief a much safer, more forgiving, and more deadly thief than the traditional dps builds. Most people don’t expect to deal with the conditions thrown on em, and if they don’t have adequate condition removal (like mesmers) they just melt.

So thanks for the discussion, all. It’s been a big help.

Thanks for this thread, all. I’d love to run perplexity runes in a PU condition build, but I can’t seem to get rid of my travelers—I feel so slow without them.

If only… I’m in the same position. No idea why we can’t do this.

I actually love what was done in the latest patch. I think it did a lot to bring more people together in Tyria and to make our accounts feel more integrated. I’m so excited for the megaservers, and grateful for the account bound dyes and wvwvw experience! I think another good idea was allowing our ascended gear to be account bound. I’m glad you are sticking to the manifesto in that you recognize that you don’t want the game to be a grind.

One problem, however, is that many of us have obtained ascended gear for each toon based on the current meta in order to be the most useful to our guild groups. For example, some people may have invested heavily into multiple berserker sets or other crit sets. Now I fully agree that crits needed to be toned down, and I thank you for that! But please now see this from our perspective. I have a Mesmer with full, ascended berserker gear, and I really felt like it was time to try the thief class. So I invested quite a bit of time into the thief, finally obtaining my ascended berserker gear.

Unfortunately, now with the inclusion of ferocity and account-bound ascended gear, one of my sets seems worthless. Given the scope of the changes in this patch, I don’t think the players are asking much by asking for an equipment re-roll. You’ve done that before for us, and I know at least from my point of view that it was highly appreciated.

So please consider my request—echoing those of other people offering reasonable patch feedback—to offer us the opportunity to re-roll our stats and take advantage of some of these changes.

Thanks and keep up the good work!

I’m silenced as well!

“Due to time constraints…”

So with more time…?

infantrydiv.1620:

dreztina.4820:

Here’s a thought. Maybe if you disabled this godawful failure of a map, people would stop making threads about it. Just a thought.

I’m thrilled that you have shared these changes with us. As an avid Mesmer player, the IC change is exactly what I’ve been looking for, and I think it will open a world of new builds to us.

However, for as excited as I am about IC, I’m as disappointed about two glaring Mesmer problems that have been around since the beginning.

1. The scepter autoattack. Scepter 1 is so bad that IF a Mesmer chose to use the weapon, then it would be for Scepter 2 and 3. If I ever use this weapon, I completely ignore the autoattack all together. This is unfortunate because I’d love to incorporate scepter into more of my builds, but it’s barely viable for a phantasm build, and it’s overshadowed by the use of sword 2 in shatter builds and most hybrid builds.

2. Phantasmal Mage. I HATE this phantasm. It tends to serve almost no purpose for me except for shatter fodder and a quick confusion burst. The Prestige is well worth running, so on occasion I’ll throw out the iMage, but every time I see that skill on my bar it makes me a little nauseous.

PLEASE, ANET—I and other Mesmers BEG you to do something with these two skills. At the very least, share your thoughts with us on this, because I think most Mesmer players see these as the two biggest problems with Mesmers.

Mrbig.8019:

Romek.4201:

agree – push – /sign

whatever – but remove this and dont trie to fix it – you waste only our time and spoil the fun we could have with your game

the worst part is when i refuse to play lame builds on skyhammer and my team nerd rages on me.

“dumb thief reroll to necro !!! logs in power necro”

I would never go beyond mesmer on this map because i hate to lame on my opponents, and i hate to bring my teammates with me.

The sad part is that i lose from 50 to 80 ranks with every skyhammer loss ( thanks to god awful matchmaking) and it’s getting annoying and frustrating.

Same.

I like maps that demand some semblance of skill. The hammer’s power is enough without adding in all the other cheese.

ArcTheFallen.7682:

Javonovich.5280:

I can’t believe anyone is still trying phantasm builds in spvp. I’ve always thought that they died months ago. In spvp (and especially tpvp) I usually run some sort of condition build and trait for condition removal. I just don’t think phantasms cut it anymore.

Phantasm is still a really strong 1v1 build. In team fights, it can do really well confusing your opponents and if placed well, it can actually do damage.

Really? What are people running now? I honestly haven’t seen a phantasm build in spvp/tpvp for a while. I’ve seen condition builds, shatter builds, and occasionally a boon share build, but not phantasm. I’ve always thought that was because phantasm is no longer viable in the meta.

I can’t believe anyone is still trying phantasm builds in spvp. I’ve always thought that they died months ago. In spvp (and especially tpvp) I usually run some sort of condition build and trait for condition removal. I just don’t think phantasms cut it anymore.

I was actually looking for the Sorrow’s Music to listen to and was wondering if it appears anywhere in GW2. I agree with you—the soundtrack is totally epic and easily the best music in GW2. Anet has video game music gold on their hands, but they’re wasting it by not showing this music to players.

Yeah, he vanished all right. I have about 50 tickets I’d like to exchange.