Tbh, I don’t think they have any clue what’s going on with matchmaking. For now, I’m giving myself a break from spvp.
I wouldn’t think of it as being behind but having a fresh game to explore! After several other MMOs I found GW2 lots of fun to level up in. On my first toon I was interested in exploring, so I map completed everything which set me up nicely for HOT.
For you, you can still do all the challenges in the old maps, which will give you the same effect. By the time you start HoT content you’d have almost all of your elite spec unlocked.
But whatever you choose, I agree with the others here: you’re not “behind” at all. Have fun!
Is that build meant to take advantage of confusion and interrupts? Would it be be better to use scepter/pistol instead of staff? That gives you a guaranteed interrupt and a nice phantasm for bosses.
This was posted in the HoT discussion section, but I saw so many complaints here that I think it’s important for everyone to see: https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/heads-up-iteration-incoming/
In short, total hero points to learn an elite specialization will be reduced from 400 to 250. And “if you’ve already put more than 250 points into your elite specialization, surplus hero points will be refunded to your character for future use.”
For pve I’m still unsure about zerk or sinister. I’m super excited about viper in nearly all other modes, but that will take some time.
Yeah you could def be in an overflow map. You may be able to use the LFG tool to get a taxi to a more populated map. Otherwise I think players are kinda spread thinly with the Halloween events going on. I know I haven’t spent much time in the new areas bc I want to get as much Halloween content complete as I can.
Thanks for the advice. I haven’t made sinister yet. Right now, i’m running full zerk, and I’m not sure if I should switch or not.
What’s been working for you guys in open-world pve, including the new HoT areas?
Also, is sinister worth it or is the ferocity too much to give up?
Totally agree. The music is a win. I havent been this excited since the Sorrows Furnace music was released way back in GW1. I was worried about what GW2 would be like without Soule, and while he is quite talented, this is some of the best music I’ve heard from Guild Wars in a while.
It’s because Anet has decided to allow the toxicity of full premades vs full randoms. Creates frustration and a toxic community.
This. The hostility of the current spvp system to solo players is a HUGE problem. Many games deal with the rage associated with losing in pvp. It’s a competitive area, after all. But the toxicity in GW2 is more than competition; its intense frustration with what feels like injustice: you are a solo player with the odds clearly stacked against you. Hell, I’ve faced top pvp champions in a kittening PUG. If that doesn’t create saltiness, idk what does.
We’ll need to test, of course, but I’m thinking that sinister will be too glassy for this meta. Just like zerk, I think sinister will largely disappear but for a couple very select players/builds.
You want to substantially decrease toxicity? Balance the game and have a real SoloQ. That’s a kitten good start.
Otherwise, ANET clearly doesn’t care right now as there is no real way to report this kitten and no dishonor.
Lol I was just commenting in another thread about this. I guess if there’s one good thing about this, it’s that at least they are working on matchmaking, even if it’s not a success yet.
I will say though that I don’t really know how the system is working. Besides often being against premades, the biggest problem I have is my allies. I usually feel like my opponents are well-matched, but my allies often seem new to spvp.
Really off-topic here, but I’ll just say that my experience is similar to the OP’s. It seems like it’s almost impossible for me to win games. When I do, they feel like they are really close, but when I lose it’s like a total landslide.
Edit: I must have played 10 today and won about 3. Ordinarily, I can get AT LEAST a 50% win-loss ratio. But some of the people I am with are just completely clueless. To top it off, I’m regularly getting 5-8 minute queues, occasional 4v5s with D/Cs or rage quitters, and nearly every game I’m against some 2/3/4/5-man premades which seem to make it a steeper uphill battle.
Right now, spvp is VERY hostile to solo players, and it’s really making me quite salty. I wanted to get some pvp in before HoT hits, but I’m thinking about abandoning spvp all together.
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I want the Sorrow’s Furnace tracks back in the game from GW1. Most epic MMO music ever.
I’ll share with you exactly what I went through with full transparency
I saw an improvement when MMR update took place and all throughout BWE. On Oct 6, everything took a nosedive to levels worse than pre-MMR update.
Pre-MMR = 49-51% win rate
MMR update and BWE = 65%
Post BWE, Oct 6 onwards = refer to image with this post. these aren’t cherry picked results, It is literally what I’ve been averaging last 4-5 daysI profusely criticize my performance in-game and rate myself as average skilled. However, I’ve been Pvping for years and have a full understanding of map strategies and rotations.
So why the heck have I been getting teamed with the most clueless people that just started Pvping a few weeks ago?
It’s been absolutely deflating and unenjoyable.
Almost what mine look like except my scores were much lower and when I finallyyy got a win, guess what? We won by 2 points…….498 – 500.
I’m going through the same thing. Feels like spvp is almost unplayable.
So I’ve been running a burn build with Sinister armor, and it’s been working really well for me. When HOT hits, though, how viable do you think this build will be when we get access to the Scrapper’s new traits? I’m wondering if I should be transitioning to a new build for the next couple weeks. Thanks for any feedback!
Yeah I’ve been very tough on GW2 in the forums lately, but there is no contest between WOW pvp and GW2 pvp. For as many complaints as we have about GW2, it’s infinitely better than WOW. I think GW2’s pve easily crushes WOW’s, as well.
I’ll also say that as someone who played WOW since its first beta and for my first MMO, I have some pretty serious nostalgia about it. Blizzard doesn’t care as much about WOW as ANET cares about GW2. I can disagree with the devs on a lot of issues, but I can never say that these guys don’t care about Guild Wars. Their passion for this game is often electric, and it’s one of the things that keeps me around. It gives me hope that some of our big concerns WILL be fixed. But with WOW? I always felt like I was just another subscription.
And btw, going from GW2 >>> WOW was challenging for me because WOW’s combat system is so static. I frequently found myself mashing “v” to dodge incoming frostbolts and raging because I knew an attack was coming but just had to eat it.
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Getting matched against premades over and over starts to get frustrating. I don’t blame anyone who leaves a terrible matchup.
Sure hope anet fixes this kitten with leagues. But i’m not going to keep my hopes up at all.
Thing is after finally attempting PvP after 3 years at a guild members request today I actually started becoming a little interested in the mode and was having fun…. until I randomly went in alone later.
Getting tossed into matches against higher rank players was annoying, but oh well I’m still getting my feet wet and adjusted to the maps. Having blowout losses didn’t bother me (it was pretty even W/L wise). What got me were the attitudes. It was either outright leaving before the match started, or the complaining and moaning in map chat once the match started going poorly. Frankly got tired of it after only a few matches. Instead of playing for enjoyment I got the feeling the majority of the people just wanted the match over asap to get their shiny at the end.
As of this point if I’m ever PvPing again it’s only going to be with a full group of fellow guild members and with the chat turned off. I have no interest in needing to keep blocking all the Debbie Downers. At least then I know we aren’t going into another 4v5 match and that everyone on my team isn’t going to turn toxic should the slightest hint of things turning south. I would much rather have a good time in TS laughing at each others failures and victories over some drinks rather than continue my experience thus far stepping away from premades.
Hopefully some solution can be found to make both solo and premades happy without a massive increase in queue times. But until that is found I’m sorry to contribute to your frustration.
Of course the attitude is bad. When I played GW1 RAs, I very very rarely heard any complaints about balance, and overall hostility was uncommon even in maps like Fort Aspenwood.
But in GW2, you can’t blame players for having a bad attitude when they queue solo and end up against a full premade, or being salty that they die to 20k+ burn damage despite using all their class’s available condi removal. Especially when ANET has been so silent about balance. And this has been a pervasive pattern. Elementalist dominated for so long, turret engis broke low to mid pvp, shoutbow warriors with regen from healing sig, lower tier classes (rangers, mesmers, and necromancers) barely getting by. Don’t forget the supply of bugs. I don’t know any class that doesn’t have at least one bug still around since release. All this while we wait 3 months for hamfisted balance changes, most of which don’t address the real issues? Yeah, that’s gonna cause some angst.
And it’s not just overall balance and Soloq. I can’t tell you how many battles we fought with the devs. For example, having a bank and TP in the Mists. Man, even getting any kind of meaningful reward in pvp seemed to take forever, and we are still fighting about this. SoloQ is an ongoing battle. Getting Skyhammer looked at took about 12,000 threads, Courtyard and Spirit Watch still suck despite all of our feedback, and few players want them in any rotation anyway. Even removing Raid on the Capricorn took a long time and hundreds of complaints.
It’s just hard to shake the feeling that the devs simply don’t care about spvp. Then every few months the complaints get so bad that the devs drastically increase their communication—swearing that it will remain nice and high—only for it to return back to silence. Meanwhile, players only complain to each other on the forums or in spvp map chat, where they are STUCK in queue, which fuels all the resentment.
The worst part is that we have been voicing our concern for years. Here’s a few posts from 3 years back: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/List-of-reasons-why-sPVP-is-the-third-rusty-wheel-of-GW2 or https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Annoying-PvP or splitting soloq and pugs or https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Why-isn-t-Anet-supporting-GW2-like-Valve-did-for-Dota2 or long queues https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/RE-5-minute-wait-time-before-tournament-matches
It’s sad when years later the complaints are basically the same. I’m about ready to give up.
TLDR: Spvp has sucked for a while, it still sucks, and the devs haven’t shown us they care, so why should we?
Given the OPness, is the intent for everyone to be using their elite spec + two others with the expos release?
I think Stronghold has potential. In some ways it reminds me of a less interesting Fort Aspenwood in GW1. It’s come a long way since I first tried it, and I do think the devs are listening.
But yes, we didn’t ask for Stronghold. I’d gladly give it back for something we HAVE asked for.
Wow—thank you for the open communication on this!
Yeah rewards are bad compared to PVE. The only possible exception is if you are going for dungeon weapon skins.
I’m having a hard time maintaining my hope. They balance every few MONTHS, they’ve alienated a large portion of the community by doing nothing about leavers and D/Cs for such a long time, their recent balance changes show no insight into the problems with burning or elementalists in general, SoloQ is gone, lack of communication with players but for a few bursts of discussion, etc.
I used to be this game’s biggest fanboy. I spent money on Gemstore items, bought the most expensive expansion, I’ve been around since beta, and I played GW1 extensively. So I really love this game, and I have a strong attachment to it. I want it to be great. I like the community, and there are some great features to GW2 (e.g: combat system, exploration, no real gear treadmill) that make it tough for me to consider any other MMO.
At the same time, I’ve been so consistently disappointed, that Idk what’s keeping me around at this point. There were some changes in this patch that made me pretty happy, but let’s face it, they were minor tweaks. The fact that it took this long (and still missed an opportunity to fix some of our biggest complaints) just kittenes me off.
When ANET can consistently make some armor that doesn’t clip/stretch, along with some decent-looking outfits (especially for Charr), ONLY THEN will I trust them to make cosmetic-only mounts that don’t further clutter the world.
Wanted to pop in and say that you did fight premades a handful of times, but there was an almost equal amount of 3+2’s you fought as well. You also had some 4-queues on your team. There are many ways matches can be made, and you can’t always trust the party check.
There are some changes we are exploring that would further reduce the number of uneven roster sizes in matches, but nothing concrete on that yet.
Can you see how much this annoys the community? The core of the OP’s concern isn’t addressed by pointing out that he’s been fighting 3+2s (btw, even teams of 2 can have HUGE advantage).
The concern is that ANET doesn’t seem to be taking pvp (or our concerns) seriously enough to address what most of us consider to be a huge problem: You’ll be at a consistent disadvantage in spvp if you don’t queue up with friends, which sucks for those of us who just want to jump online for a few games here and there. Or for those of us just wanting fair matchups.
The worst part is that the absence of SoloQ is one of—I’d say—the top 5 things causing PVPers to quit. This is turn decreases the player base, which makes it more difficult to bring back SoloQ.
Thanks for your thoughts, all. I’ve played around a bit with it and my initial impression hasn’t changed. It handles 1v1s pretty well for classes that rely on boons, and its performance in team fights isn’t horrible. Still, when I compare my nec to my guard, ele, or thief, nec doesn’t feel like it brings anything essential to the team. It offers some nice utility with condi control and boon stripping, but limited mobility is a death sentence in spvp.
I saw on metabattle.com that the celestial signet build is considered a meta build for ranked. I know the build is good and handles those pesky celes pretty well, but I wasn’t overly impressed with the other matchups I had with it.
What are your thoughts on this? Is this build really “meta”? What am I missing here?
Look, it isn’t like the devs don’t have a successful model with GW1 that they can follow. The problem is they act like they need to reinvent the wheel. So much would be solved by splitting pve/pvp skills alone. I can’t believe this wasn’t done since the very beginning, given the success it had for GW1. Yet the devs prefer to ignore past successes and stumble around with the same freaking problems that were solved years ago.
That would clearly be too anti-casual. I don’t Have time to learn 9 classes 2 times, let alone 3 if they split wvw.
Seriously Anet split the kittening kitten already and have a dedicated team work on spvp…
No. For confusion we have already done this. Previously, confusion did half the damage in spvp than it did in pve. There’s nothing “anti-casual” about that. On the skill level, they’d be minor damage/formula adjustments that wouldn’t require relearning, not every skill would be affected, and skills that are changed would be designed as “pvp skills” so people would know there was a skill split. It couldn’t be easier for the players.
A dedicated spvp balance team is an unnecessary fix for ANET. Why? You can’t balance both pve/pvp skills at the same time because skills don’t function the same way in both modes. For example, Dhuumfire. Dhuumfire was nerfed because it was way OP in pvp. Yet now it’s laughably bad in pve (and even its former self would underperform). Now we’re left with a useless skill in BOTH modes. So there are some skills that just can’t be balanced between the two game modes bc the game modes are so different and have such different goals.
Burning, like confusion, is another great example. Despite how high it’s damage is, it still tends to underperform in pve compared to zerk builds, but it’s way too potent in pvp. I’d like to see conditions STRONGER in pve and more balanced in pvp (that is, viable but not all about burning). Good luck trying to have both.
Look, it isn’t like the devs don’t have a successful model with GW1 that they can follow. The problem is they act like they need to reinvent the wheel. So much would be solved by splitting pve/pvp skills alone. I can’t believe this wasn’t done since the very beginning, given the success it had for GW1. Yet the devs prefer to ignore past successes and stumble around with the same freaking problems that were solved years ago.
Wow! It’s great to see how helpful the Engi forum is. Thank you again guys on behalf of the 100s of viewers this thread got over the past few days.
As much as I hate to admit it (especially since I’ve been a devout GW2 fanboy for years), I think it’s obvious ANET doesn’t give a kitten. We’ve been asking for SoloQ and queuing anywhere for so long now that Ive accepted ANET’s stubbornness on this by playing better pvp games. I suggest WiiU’s Splatoon. It’s fun as hell and you can play 5 games in the time it takes you to queue for one GW2 match.
Everything about GW2 pvp tells us ANET doesn’t take it seriously. So how can we? #esports
Thanks for the advice, as well as clarification on the nightmare runes. I appreciate it.
Thanks, Knox. One question: Why the Nightmare runes instead of Balth in that build if burn is the main source of damage?
Thanks for the info, Sly. I think I’ll shelf my necro for now and give Engi a shot.
I’ve been thinking about switching to an engineer for open-world pve and silverwastes (he’s already level 80. I used to use him exclusively for pvp and amassed a lot of tomes). I’ve always loved condi builds, and I heard that engins are in a good spot with current burn damage. I was wondering what you all thought about the current state of engins in pve, if you have any preferred burn-based builds, and if Engi is worth it over a condi necro or condi Mesmer.
Imo there is a solution: splitting pvp/pve skills. Necro (conditions, more specifically) is the perfect example of why that needs to happen. Necro underperforms in PVE because the devs seem afraid of what necros can do in PVP (for example, nerfing the hell out of Dhuumfire). We end up getting this extreme give/take balance approach to the class because ANET is trying to balance each class with each other AND across different game modes. If GW1 has taught us anything, it’s that having one skill operate the same in both pve and pvp contexts is either a recipe for uselessness or OPness.
First, I’m loving the recent patch. I know the pvp forum has been salty since the patch hit, but I do think we all appreciate the hard work the devs have done to improve this game for us. When I look at all the threads in this forum, there seems to a common theme, though: uncertainty. We really haven’t heard from anyone with regard to our pvp concerns.
I know in the past ANET has shown us that they can communicate with us: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Communicating-with-you/ But right now, I’m not hearing much. How come?
In PVP, balance is everything. PVP players feel even the most minor and nuanced balance issues, because unlike in PVE, we have skills and strategies used against us. Unlike a Legendary Champion out in the world—essentially programmed to die and provide loot—it’s up to PVP players to come up with the counterplay necessary to succeed. Why can’t we hear the dev’s thoughts on current balance? For example, Mesmer PU/burst. Is that where you want it? How about current burn ticks? Current state of the necro/ranger in pvp? Now I can see not wanting to discuss balance, especially when a patch is so new. But can you at least tell us what you’re monitoring and maybe what PVP players can expect in the future?
I fear that the PVP community has grown to believe that ANET doesn’t care about SPVP. But after playing GW1 since its release, I KNOW this isn’t true. Look at ANET’s track record: GW1 had some of the best PVP I’ve ever seen. ANET not only cares about pvp, but they basically created some of the best pvp in the genre. So why not learn from what’s been done in the past? Can GW2 implement some of the changes that really worked to help balance GW1? For instance, it seems like conditions are a serious issue: too weak in pve (with the exception of burn) and too strong in pvp. I’m seeing a great opportunity for the pve/pvp functionality split. What do you think?
Balance aside, many of us are left wondering about other things: What about leaderboards? Is SoloQ gone forever (and if so, why? Random Arenas seemed to work so well in the past)? Will anything be done to improve maps like Courtyard? Can we queue up again in pve while we wait for a match instead of hanging around in the HotM for 5-10 minutes? Any ideas on 4v5s? How about improving pvp rewards?
I love this game, but right now I feel frustrated because the great communication that we have had in the past seems to have disappeared. As we learned from the “Communicating with you” thread, this is toxic for our community.
I’m not asking for answers you don’t have yet, but complete silence on balance and other issues seems counterproductive.
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I’m liking the update too. I rolled a Mesmer on release and finally brought him out again. I love my Thief’s dps output, too. But I still find Necros pretty worthless.
What really kittenes me off about the removal of SQ is that it worked so well in GW1. Anet already has a great model for pvp but choose not to follow it. What would be smart—and maybe asking for too much—is for Anet is celebrate their past achievements by improving upon them and updating them to GW2.
Instead they move backwards with changes that absolutely infuriate members of the pvp community, especially those of us who are vets from GW1 simply bc we know how much better it SHOULD be.
Given the few days after patch release (and typical ANET Mesmer hate), I think Thieves still reign supreme.
Agreed. And I’m amazed, given the player feedback on the removal of soloq, that Anet hasn’t done anything about it with the big patch coming our way.
Not to mention the disgusting number of 3-4v5s.
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Actually I’d love this. I often use a couple different builds with different stat distributions. I’ve had the mats for ascended armor for a while but I won’t craft anything so expensive that might be obsolete after a new patch.
I just can’t bring myself to ditch the sword. With all these guards and warriors running around, LS is too good. Then safely bursting from off-point, too? Yes, please.
I use runes of the pack with a 2/6/0/0/6 build.
SoloQ.
Wait, was our quota already reached for today?
I’ll rage with you. I hate this premade bs.
Not fun, you say??? Come on! We have 4v5s, premade teams with no soloq, horrible class balance, a boring meta, the courtyard/skyhammer maps, and lackluster matchmaking! That really doesn’t do it for you?
All this “stick with it” talk is just crap. Spvp is bad. Really bad. I can only hope it gets better in the expansion, but I don’t have my hopes up. Too bad, too, as I absolutely loved random arenas in GW1.
we’re getting a game that has actually changed its directions many times before even this expansion.
1. The time when it was heading for Conquest strictly and Temple of the Silent Storm, Spirit Watch and Skyhammer were all designed with the vision that this mode will be the long term rule.
2. The time when the devs realize class balance is actually the real issue and started trying to bring warrior and necromancers on par from being underpowered. Unfortunately they could only focus on this while people were also raging about Conquest was a boring mode etc.
3. The time when Custom Arena came out then Courtyard came out. By this time, PvP was already a sliver of what playerbase it had during the 2012 launch. And at this point, the PvP team talked about developing new PvP modes but for some strange reason they did not want to show it ‘until it’s done’. For players, we just feel the direction is utterly confused or nonexistent.
4. And now we know the new game mode is Stronghold. Again, the revelation came too slow. Many people already left. Whether the devs (not PRs like Josh because let’s be honest he is the guy that works the hardest and jokes the least around) are admitting their sloth or at least not trying hard enough to prove that they want a serious esport~~we will only see with HoT..
Yes, and the problem is that many of their ideas were disasters, with the exception of Skyhammer, as “disaster” isn’t quite strong enough for the hate that map caused. Spirit watch was heavily criticized, too. In their attempt to balance, they made warriors so strong for so long that even casuals could see a major imbalance. Necromancers have huge issues as a whole because of the sorry state of conditions in this game. Courtyard was another terrible map. At this point, I nearly gave up. And Stronghold? I won’t write it off until I try it, but I don’t know how much more I can take before I go back to LoL and just play GW2’s PVE.
All of this on top of the player complaints that go ignored for so long. How long did turret engis ruin casual pvp before the build was nerfed almost to the point of uselessness? How many threads did it take before Skyhammer was “fixed?” Or before Warriors were nerfed? Or Rangers actually got some love? The list of problems that are STILL around for months—even years—is sad.
I have always felt that GW2’s spvp was so close to being great… until we get some ridiculous change, like the removal of SoloQ, that makes us all bang our heads on our keyboards. At this point—with an expo around the corner—I feel like I’m in a failing marriage, and that we are just hoping that having a baby will revive it. Unfortunately, that never works out.
It’s definitely stupid, and it’s one reason GW2 pvp fails to qualify as any kind of “esports.” SoloQ was highly popular because you could just jump right into a game without having to worry about dealing with team management/creation. I enjoy playing on pre-mades, but sometimes I just want to do my own thing.
Now there’s absolutely no way for me to do that in structured pvp. IF Anet had a powerful matchmaking system, THEN the current situation would be acceptable. But as others have said, random teams are matched against pre-mades. I’m not sure how it often it happens, but imo it shouldn’t happen at all. It just ruins the matchup for both sides.
And I’m not even talking about full teams here. A random team is at a serious disadvantage even against a team with a 2-man pre-made in it. Having a random arena just makes so much sense that it continues to make me wonder what the hell the devs are thinking by refusing to put it back in.