Guild Wars 2

Aye it certainly could be interesting, but it’d be tough, as again, make the “jab” too punishing and i’m just gonna equip a range weapon step back and fight from afar, nullifying all the work done trying to make an interesting melee fight.

The whole range thing really screws it up. But, then do you put a second set of heavy attacks to punish range? I think that was the goal of things like the SQ poison attack or Lupi’s auto in p2/3 and now the Lifeleach Thrashers, but as we’ve seen 2 out of 3 of those things have been changed to just be constants whether melee or range…

I skip trash because I find killing it generally pretty boring. While Illusionists have a good chance of killing you in the general approach in how we kill them, we could do better, it’s just that ignoring everything but the chaos storm and bursting them with damage is simply better.

As for rewards, there are plenty of ways to do it and motivate people. Allowing us to sell the rewards would solve Vayne’s issue with it.

To add, Tim I think you’re spot on.

I wanted to elaborate on it a little. If you ever watch Boxing (no not that mayweather crap), you’ll notice that the jabs often get through without even an attempt to dodge. Why? Because they really aren’t hurting anything, and dodging takes energy which you don’t want to waste. So take the jab, take the jab, take the jab, avoid the cross, take the jab, counter the hook, take the jab, blah blah, you get it. But, then it even gets more advanced in how you take the jab, move an inch to the left and it glances across your skin rather than getting you with full force, mitigating the blow. There’s a reason it’s called the sweet science.

The problem is getting the details right. Having those jabs take off 25% of your health, well, suddenly they’re not really jabs, they’re on the level that you want to avoid them if at all possible. So it’d take some math to figure out how hard they want them to be based on mitigation available, heals available and the amount of damage over time that the jabs will do. Make it so much pressure that I’m just gonna back out to range and take the potential damage loss because in the end having to heal and do all that stuff is pushing me below ranging would be bad, it’s complicated, takes some figuring out.

Tim.6450:

Jerus.4350:

Tim.6450:

To achieve that one you do need attacks that can’t be or shouldn’t be avoided otherwise you can use damage migitaion instead. I also think that that one will make vitality/toughness an option to make the other one less neccessairy.

Solid pressure of even avoidable things will leave you wanting to coordinate heals for the missteps in actively defending yourself.

I look at the Troll at Amber to be a very well designed encounter (if you don’t safespot him, filthy exploiters ) I need to have dodges ready for his quick rotating shout. Then for his circle attack I need to dodge and block through the persistent damage. Then he has an auto attack as well I need to dodge if it’s on me. Between those things my active defenses are stressed. But, the encounter isn’t over. While I can avoid the additional enemies he summons, and sometimes I do, they do take chunks out of me while I’m busy dealing with the main guy. That’s where my heals come in. For the stuff that went above what I was ready to actively deal with.

So you don’t need unavoidable stuff, you just need a lot of stuff to really push you if you want to play all out.

So you have attacks that shouldn’t be avoided because you wouldn’t have any defenses left?

Kinda, thing is team composition and profession choices could potentially allow you to avoid everything, it’s just unlikely and not needed if you have proper ways to recover from the attacks that slip through.

By that I mean if I had a guardian or two in my group for Troll the Aegis rotations could allow me to go through unscathed if I defended myself properly with everything else I have. Though, when I’m on my Necro I have only dodges with energy sigil, and such I can avoid far less, but with DS and heals I actually find it easier because as long as I avoid the bigger attacks I can brush off the smaller ones pretty easily.

So, yes, that’s one approach letting some attacks through, but because of the diversity of options for different things it wouldn’t necessarily be the only approach. (Guard team = avoid everything, Necro team = mitigate all but the largest of attacks)

Edit: ok I feel silly, typed that all out, and then got your point, apparently it went over my head in your original post, but yes, you’re right. Though, again, with proper setup the “should be” might not even hold true.

Made the same request a few days ago.

Charge enough for it and the loss in trans charge money likely wouldn’t be a factor, and for people like me they’d have gotten more money because I’m more likely to buy something that gives me something permanent than something that just lets me do these things on a whim. I’d have dozens of these “outfits” such that I could have a different set for every different dungeon I do.

So, safe to say that you’re just looking at this from the most pessimistic viewpoint assuming the worst in every scenario Vayne?

Tim.6450:

NikeEU.7690:

The real solution is, as I said, stressing the active tool kit: dodges, blocks, reflects, coordinated blasts of water fields, positioning, key interrupts etc. Most encounters right now only make you do one or two of those things at most to succeed. New encounters that put all of your resources to the test are the solution.

To achieve that one you do need attacks that can’t be or shouldn’t be avoided otherwise you can use damage migitaion instead. I also think that that one will make vitality/toughness an option to make the other one less neccessairy.

Solid pressure of even avoidable things will leave you wanting to coordinate heals for the missteps in actively defending yourself.

I look at the Troll at Amber to be a very well designed encounter (if you don’t safespot him, filthy exploiters ) I need to have dodges ready for his quick rotating shout. Then for his circle attack I need to dodge and block through the persistent damage. Then he has an auto attack as well I need to dodge if it’s on me. Between those things my active defenses are stressed. But, the encounter isn’t over. While I can avoid the additional enemies he summons, and sometimes I do, they do take chunks out of me while I’m busy dealing with the main guy. That’s where my heals come in. For the stuff that went above what I was ready to actively deal with.

So you don’t need unavoidable stuff, you just need a lot of stuff to really push you if you want to play all out.

Vayne.8563:

Fenrir.3609:

“The game will shut if we add a few challenging instances!!”.

But it’ll NEVER be a few challenging instances. Ever. It’ll be give me one. Then you want one more. Then you want something harder. Than you want something exclusive, than you want better rewards because it’s harder.

The hard core community is a very very loud part of the playerbase. They always have been. That doesn’t mean, necessarily, that they’re a very big percentage of the player base.

So they push and push and push and they get a bit more and a bit more and a bit more. And that means the casuals get a bit less and a bit less and a bit less, until the casuals end up leaving. After which, the game can cl;ose or scale back operations because I don’t believe the game can exist without the casual base.

You guys will get a couple of hard instances, work them out, find them easy and you’ll want more hard instances. That’s how it works. It’ll be a never ending fight for resources.

Games should focus on what makes them strong. Trying to please everyone leaves no one pleased.

Yup, we will want more. Just like PVPers want more maps/styles. Just like WvWers want more maps and tweaking to the rules in an attempt to perfect it. Just like Open Worlders want new zones and content.

Thing is challenging content lasts quite a while, people are still playing the dungeons from the original game for christs sake.

But, doing some instanced content doesn’t mean suddenly everything is gone. And it shouldn’t mean you can’t satisfy other areas.

Been going DPS, I can switch it right?

So did my first shiphand thing or whatever it is… lots of fun, felt like Dynasty warriors rushing through and getting ultra kills. Have to say I wish I gave that game more of a chance before, still not a big fan of a lot of stuff, but the content… ohh the content, just such perfection.

dlonie.6547:

So, you have a bad personality when you play dungeons, therefore they shouldn’t add more instanced content?

Do you think that maybe saying “Let them add new content for people who want it, but I won’t play it because I don’t like what it does to me” might be a more mature way to deal with it?

Such crazy talk. If it doesn’t fit one’s personal preferences it simply shouldn’t be done. Simple as that.

Now time to play something I enjoy!

Shivan.9438:

The GW community has always been the best one in my opinion, but there have always been negative and toxic people. It’s just that more of the better gamers, polite or nice gamers are leaving to find something else to play and the toxic players are more noticeable now.

See, I can’t help but feel that GW2’s community has been the worst of the games I’ve spent a lot of time in. Never have I seen people so ready to grief people just because they play differently. In other games they just stay away from each other, it’s quite nice.

Aye I did some Jumping puzzles and what have you.

I actually like exploring other game modes when I’m satisfied with my favorite content and just need a little break. When I’m pulled into the game like that even if I don’t want to hit my normal stuff I’m interested in still playing, but, as it stands, I just log out and stop playing when I get tired of the stuff I enjoy.

Aomine.5012:

Ideas that can indirectly solve the Zerk problems in PVE without affecting anything else:

1. Add more Bark Skin type of enemies who’re only vulnerable to conditions.
2. Add enemies that have damage reflection for certain %, so going full zerk will actually hurt yourself more, and higher vit and healing will be more optimal.
3. Add stages that’d dish out damage to the whole map periodically. The damage can be reduced by armors, making toughness very important.
4. Add foes that’d apply weakness to all players in the radius, so zerk classes are greatly punished, and condition spec is more viable.

Did you misspeak, because those seem pretty directly focused at hurting zerk.

Can’t say I’d be interested in playing content like that.

I actually enjoy longer fights >.<, Lupi Solo/Duo for instance is far more fun than in a group because you get to experience all the mechanics multiple times rather than maybe once.

I enjoy actively defending more than just bursting.

Trolls are fun, they keep you on your toes but you still have to actively defend yourself, and I like the charging teragriffs with the whole movement counter (don’t like the other kind), and the lifeleach thrashers are fun, but the other kind isn’t with their constant movement and stale attack pattern.

Attrition fights are annoying as well. I’m all for pushing for more active defense, like solo lupi or even Amber Troll. Needing more than the bare minimum is good, needing most of what you have available I find even more fun.

dlonie’s so lazy, psh 6k, 8k ftw!

First 2 months of playing, $125, after I realized they had no intention of continuing to put out content I enjoyed, $0.

Don’t mind paying for my entertainment, but I don’t like supporting people who ignore me as a customer.

Same reason I don’t go to the better Mexican restaurant down the street that has terrible service, and instead go a little further for the still good place that has reasonable service (can still be a pain because no hablo español).

Toxsa.2701:

I strongly suggest you get a set of Exotic first before you try ascended.

Ascended usually takes at least 30g to craft each weapon and 50g~80g to craft each “piece” of armors. This also excluding to crafting from 400 -> 500 cost, which is around 200g for each category.

When we’re talking about PVE, most situation and classes, zerker is the way to go. You can get a much cheaper price of exotic through WvW badges. The reason why assassin is not picked is because crit rate actually have a much higher chance of hitting 100% than power reaching the diminishing return. Usually it requires 25 stacks of might for power to start hitting diminishing return.

I’d not go with WvW badge gear unless you’re planning on a cheapo set of gear, toss scholar runes in it and suddenly if you ever move on from that gear you’ll have paid more for the full set than the alternatives.

Even with full assassin gear + weapon with scholar runes you’re looking at like 62% crit chance, which is right on target, 8% from Disc banner, 20% fury, up to 90% at that point, and 10% while target is under 50% for the 100%, nothing wasted. It’s only if you have spotter or stack above that point with other stuff that you will see excess.

All the calculations for PVE are generally done with the assumption of full buffs, so yeah I doubt it affects the assassin situation.

And yeah you certainly can and should tweak around builds to best fit your group.

And my point was basically that if you ask for the best, it’s safe to assume that the best builds are also being used, otherwise they’d have said “what is best given <insert parameters here>”

“casual’s big fat wallet” umm… pretty sure he’s the hardcore one. Compared to him I’m the casualist of the casual.

I think you overestimate the focus on optimization. I’ve never been kicked from a dungeon for using an Energy sigil (10% lost in night dungeons).

You do have a point with having to find people, but I’ve never really found it difficult to gather 5 people, I can’t imagine 5 more would be all that bad. Only at really weird times of day.

MigukNamja.1538:

Follow the money. A significant % of the revenue for this game comes up-front. Hence, A-Net has very little incentive to keep people around past level 80. Rather, they need to bring in as many new players as possible.

Yes, there is the gem bank, but I don’t know how much $ people spend on that.

I’ve spent over twice as much on the gemstore than I did on the game… if I had waited for a sale for the game… we’d be talking like 10X. And I know I’ve spent a fraction of what some people I know have spent.

Naw, I really think the gemstore is a pretty big part of their business.

Actually the sales themselves are kinda “proof” that the gemstore is their money maker. If it wasn’t would they really drop the price that substantially?

Sariel V.7024:

dlonie.6547:

Adding a hard mode that required skilled play and high-end gear would let the more hardcore crowd separate themselves from those that want a more free-style dungeon run. This would go a long way towards solving the toxicity problems.

BaHA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HAH HA HAHA HA HA no.

Not even remotely. It’d get much worse.

I don’t think you understand toxicity. While I don’t think there should be any “high-end” gear beyond Ascended, allowing us to segregate ourselves in different content would basically eliminate toxicity… unless someone decided to jump into the other set of content with the same expectations they had from the stuff they’re used to.

It’d divide the community, but it wouldn’t create more toxicity.

zengara.8301:

Just all around sad, Gw2 used to be known as the least toxic game out there, now it is common that returning players write that they won’t in forums anymore because the population got toxic.

Still dont know if it is a programmed issue or simply is people comming from some very known toxic games because price point, ignorance used to be very……very rare, almost non existance like a year back…Only honestly seen it a few times at this point I see it now, both in game party groups/PvP yeah even Map Chat, really hope that changes over time.

Why do people act like jerks, well I’d say one of the leading causes is frustration. And well, this game simply breeds that.

Lack of new content, point of frustration there, but it doesn’t stop with it. Because of the lack of content players get to the point of perfection, and because of ANet’s infinite wisdom of forcing players to all play together whether they want to or not the people who haven’t perfected things yet screw things up for those that have. Just adding to the frustration. But, it’s not just the people who know what they’re doing that are frustrated at that point, the new players are getting frustrated as well because no one has any patience left.

When things aren’t easy, and no one is expecting anything to go smoothly the frustration simply isn’t there, because nothing is falling short of any expectations. That’s why all games start out without these less desirable elements for the most part (there are just strait up jerks in this world).

And they did that because of a bunch of threads a year or so ago complaining about the opposite. That the game lacked unique rewards.

I’m with ya though, I like the idea of everything being tradeable.

Don’t see how that has much to do with instanced content though. It’s a trend in all their content over the last few months (basically since season 2 of LS).

Vayne.8563:

Jerus.4350:

Vayne.8563:

Jerus.4350:

It can and does Vayne, but on the flip side, it can also strengthen a community.

It is all in the way the community handles it.

It’s when you have conflicting goals that you create a situation where the toxicity arises. That’s why I’ve seen more toxicity in Silverwastes than I have in any dungeon I’ve done. “kitten it south, you all suck!” is a pretty common response when they’re overloaded with people and fail. But… that’s easy content and you still have toxicity.

Instances can allow people to play with only those they want to, that’s a good thing imo.

In many games the best rewards are locked into instances. That means that people who want those rewards have to brave those instances. The people who are “good” at those games, band together and farm those instances. The other people try to get into groups, and that’s where the conflict starts.

Now, if you have say 20% of players who love hard content, 20% of the players will be satisfied with that situation . 80% will be broken into two groups. Those who never do it and those who do it grudgingly even though they don’t enjoy it.

Of the groups who don’t do it, that group will be broken up into two groups, those who don’t care about the rewards and those who are frustrated that they’ll never see them. So you have a potential to kitten off a much larger percentage of the player base than you’re helping.

On top of that, the hard content crowd almost always wants if not better, at least exclusive rewards.

So you end up with some people who are really happy and some who are disenfranchised. I’ll probably do the content and not enjoy it. Enough of that and I’ll stop enjoying the game, which is what happens in every other MMO I’ve played to do.

I do enough stuff for rewards I don’t enjoy, I think why am I playing this game to not enjoy it, and I walk away. Happened with Rift, WoW, Lotro, Aion and others.

This game I like. But if exclusive rewards, too many of them, are locked behind content I’m not enjoying, I can see myself walking away from here too.

One of the things I like about this game is that I can get most rewards doing most things. Not all, but most. I’d sort of hope that would stay the same.

Good thing GW2 isn’t most games.

Your entire argument here hinges on the idea of a change in BiS gear, that’d be downright stupid for ANet to do. It’s one of the best things they’ve done keeping the gear treadmill under control and adding better than ascended would be silly.

However, of course people want explusive rewards. But, why is that bad? PVP gets it with balthazar back/glorioius sets, WvW with it’s hero weapons, Dungeons/pvp share gear/weapon styles. Fractals have their weapons. Open world stuff has various things including Luminescent for SW. I don’t see why this wouldn’t get something exclusive too, but just like the other things, do it or don’t it’s up to you. I’m not a big fan of PVP so I only have one glorious piece, couldn’t get myself to finish farming it. I don’t really love the luminescent stuff but I also found most of the achievements to be more annoying than fun or challenging, so I haven’t completed that. But it was my choice and I love that I get to have it even if I choose to ignore it.

But again, you’re implying that ANet would not only add raids but also change their whole stance on gear…

You need to read my argument again. I didn’t say BIS gear. I said rewards. Let’s pretend Anet puts the coolest mini or coolest tonic in a raid. It’s possible. A cool outfit. A cool skin. Now, if there becomes enough of those things that people can’t get, people will feel disenfranchised. That situation doesn’t exist now.

But you start adding raids, and you’ll find the raid crowd will demand more rewards for the greater risk. We’ve seen it in every raid thread around. We are working harder. This is harder content. We want better rewards.

So far the game hasn’t worked much like that. There are still rewards I want that I haven’t gotten, because I don’t like the content.

But this isn’t about BIS gear. It’s about unique rewards. Again, just from my experience in other games, it creates haves and have nots. There’s a lot less of that in this game, so far.

What?

Glorious Armor, Mini Llamas, Hero Forged weapons, Wurm armor, Teq Hoard, Fractal Weapons, Luminescent Gear, Sinister/Nomad Stats…

Unique rewards alraedy exist.

Vayne.8563:

Jerus.4350:

It can and does Vayne, but on the flip side, it can also strengthen a community.

It is all in the way the community handles it.

It’s when you have conflicting goals that you create a situation where the toxicity arises. That’s why I’ve seen more toxicity in Silverwastes than I have in any dungeon I’ve done. “kitten it south, you all suck!” is a pretty common response when they’re overloaded with people and fail. But… that’s easy content and you still have toxicity.

Instances can allow people to play with only those they want to, that’s a good thing imo.

In many games the best rewards are locked into instances. That means that people who want those rewards have to brave those instances. The people who are “good” at those games, band together and farm those instances. The other people try to get into groups, and that’s where the conflict starts.

Now, if you have say 20% of players who love hard content, 20% of the players will be satisfied with that situation . 80% will be broken into two groups. Those who never do it and those who do it grudgingly even though they don’t enjoy it.

Of the groups who don’t do it, that group will be broken up into two groups, those who don’t care about the rewards and those who are frustrated that they’ll never see them. So you have a potential to kitten off a much larger percentage of the player base than you’re helping.

On top of that, the hard content crowd almost always wants if not better, at least exclusive rewards.

So you end up with some people who are really happy and some who are disenfranchised. I’ll probably do the content and not enjoy it. Enough of that and I’ll stop enjoying the game, which is what happens in every other MMO I’ve played to do.

I do enough stuff for rewards I don’t enjoy, I think why am I playing this game to not enjoy it, and I walk away. Happened with Rift, WoW, Lotro, Aion and others.

This game I like. But if exclusive rewards, too many of them, are locked behind content I’m not enjoying, I can see myself walking away from here too.

One of the things I like about this game is that I can get most rewards doing most things. Not all, but most. I’d sort of hope that would stay the same.

Good thing GW2 isn’t most games.

Your entire argument here hinges on the idea of a change in BiS gear, that’d be downright stupid for ANet to do. It’s one of the best things they’ve done keeping the gear treadmill under control and adding better than ascended would be silly.

However, of course people want explusive rewards. But, why is that bad? PVP gets it with balthazar back/glorioius sets, WvW with it’s hero weapons, Dungeons/pvp share gear/weapon styles. Fractals have their weapons. Open world stuff has various things including Luminescent for SW. I don’t see why this wouldn’t get something exclusive too, but just like the other things, do it or don’t it’s up to you. I’m not a big fan of PVP so I only have one glorious piece, couldn’t get myself to finish farming it. I don’t really love the luminescent stuff but I also found most of the achievements to be more annoying than fun or challenging, so I haven’t completed that. But it was my choice and I love that I get to have it even if I choose to ignore it.

But again, you’re implying that ANet would not only add raids but also change their whole stance on gear…

Quiznos.4296:

As many have mentioned. Small nudges to move players into a more diversified gear set is more so the case.

The removal of trait line stats will give a nudge too, no vit, no tough, no heal, from traits means zerk will be even squishier.

Not really, most zerk builds didn’t get vit/tough from traits, and now we’ll be getting some of it added base.

Menadena.7482:

Instances in PVE? Great Odin no!!!!

I see GW2 as a social game. Part of that is I can join in on an event in progress or someone else may join in on one I am already at.

What makes instances not social? I play instances with my friends and many of these friends I’ve met by using the LFG system. Seems quite social to me.

I’d also echo dlonie’s comments

So anyone heard of Besieged? My brother just showed me and I want it so bad, but at the same time I’m quite sure I’d blink and lose hours if I was playing that.

It can and does Vayne, but on the flip side, it can also strengthen a community.

It is all in the way the community handles it.

It’s when you have conflicting goals that you create a situation where the toxicity arises. That’s why I’ve seen more toxicity in Silverwastes than I have in any dungeon I’ve done. “kitten it south, you all suck!” is a pretty common response when they’re overloaded with people and fail. But… that’s easy content and you still have toxicity.

Instances can allow people to play with only those they want to, that’s a good thing imo.

Spartacus.3192:

Add more mobs like in SW that have high toughness but susceptible to condis. Makes for more useful hybrid builds, less zerker.

Inc sinister meta… such diversity

I’m of the opinion both need more than 2

Cynz.9437:

now try to dodge mossman attacks while having engis spamming grenades and 3 mesmers on team spamming clones

There are things that are hard, and things that are impossible.

:D , I kid, Sesshi is amazing, nice job as always.

ignoring split mechanics is ignoring a major part of it.

Fact is it’s tough to promote a diverse set of builds and types of content. Splitting makes that easy. Condi’s go to A, Power to B, Defence to C. Simple.

And splitting in a 5 man would hardly be fair to call group content.

As for the need of multigroup, maybe not, but what I said needs splitting, and with that is far more resonable with multigroup because of the above. If you just had those bosses in sequence it’d be people just swapping builds between them, not really the diversity I’d call exciting to see.
~~~
I have a tough time agreeing with your second point as I don’t think there will be any difficulty or really any logistical problems and I doubt the organization would be all that intricate either, but surely moreso than currently.

As for the third point, there would most definitely be a meta, but it would loosen, a lot of stuff woudl shift simply because of the number 10 vs 5. Instantly any personal dps choice is only half as important to the group on any individual encounter (split mechanics would be different). As 50% on one person in 5 man is about 10% loss, in a 10 man it’d be a 5% loss. That’s an interesting change when you consider support/control/utility strengths against it. Also, the multigroup thing wouldn’t be in a vacuum, I think it’d be a great time to introduce new mechanics to more pinpoint and punish the meta and promote less utilized stuff. Rapid hits of low-moderate damage from enemies strengthening retal and maybe confusion while nearly nullifying blind. Spike and consistent boon application on enemies to promote different types of boon stripping. Lots of stuff could be expanded upon, and while not limited to multi group it’d be a good place to unleash it.

Your fourth point certainly rings true with the general difficulty. But that would be true of any challenging content, something that we’ve been told we’re getting already. Not all content is built for everyone, and that’s not a problem.

Why does this thread keep derailing to the same topics that have been discussed over and over in which no side will budge regardless of information provided? Seems pretty futile to me.

I think this thread has brought up a good point with raids, and I think they could be an answer to the issues people have right now with dungeons and other content. It could be better than anything before. Something that uses all that stuff and learns from it to create content that has more build and role diversity, having more room and promoting the use of more professions. Something that has interesting mechanics to nullify some of the old tricks or penalize us for using them.

The possibilities are endless, but we continue to squabble about stacking or zerk gear… gah.. I’m starting to understand why the ANet staff rarely talks, and that scares me.

kash.9213:

cranos.5913:

This is so weird to me, ask a new dungeon and most ppl don’t care, make party sizes a bit bigger and call it a raid and suddenly there’s a giant kittenstorm raining down on the topic… Sigh…

Currently, the rest of the game isn’t a forced precursor to dungeons, which is what most content is for raids in other games. Right now, I’m gearing my character both for stats and for looks and I think I’ve stepped into a dungeon once and I didn’t even have a reason to. If “raids” were introduced, they would come with the institutionalized idea that the game will revolve and cater to them and that everything you do will culminate in a Raid night for a piece of gear, maybe. We can argue the description of the word all we like but the sound of that word creates an image in our heads at this point.

That’s just because people don’t stop to think before they make a knee jerk reaction because of a single word.

The stigma for raids that you’re talking about it completely shut down by the limited gear progression in the game.

While there are reasons other games do it that aren’t worth getting into, the issue is that raid gear is always the best in those games and people feel forced into them. Well, that wouldn’t happen here unless they go back on their design of ascended being BiS.

So, people don’t need to worry about that. It’s just instanced content made for more than one group. Nothing more, nothing less. I’d imagine you’d want to put unique rewards in it, but no different than Teq having unique rewards, or silverwastes, or PvP and WvW getting their own stuff, but none of it exceeding in power anything else.

Don’t quote me because it’s been a long time since I’ve messed with SD much outside of just screwing around with a build based around it (rifle turret and such).

I believe if you have a targetted toolbelt skill it’ll travel to your target, but if it doesn’t you need to aim it a bit by bringing your camera down, sorta the same funky pathing of the projectile that Flame Blast can have.

Also I’m pretty sure it’s any toolbelt skill. So yes you’ll have those other non damaging skills trigger it as well.

Quick look at the wiki seems to confirm my memory. And no grenade barrage will just be 1, each skill use = 1, I know it’s nice with Rifle turret you can use the quick recharge toolbelt skill, then drop the rifle turret, trigger that, and blow it up for a second SD proc, then quickly after grab a third SD proc with the toolbelt skill again.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Static_Discharge

challenging content in general isn’t their style.

I thought the Hex guys were saying that the Molten Facility jump could be done with any leap not just RtL?

I haven’t watched Green Arrow, but… GREEN arrow seems awfully black…

Aye, I can’t help but feel the negative outlook on Wildstar is the same reason I couldn’t get into it initially. That said, I’m giving it another go $20 ain’t bad to pay for a chance at good content, can’t say I’m willing to pay the same for anything ANet’s doing.

Astralporing.1957:

cranos.5913:

Windsagio.1340:

I think the end answer, if I’m perfectly frank is “This game just isn’t for really hardcore dungeon types”.

Prob not, but there’s no reason for challenging content to be only for really hardcore players.

Except that most of people that want this kind of content do want it to be for hardcore players (or at least as hardcore as they perceive themselves to be).

Depends on what you mean. MMOs have taken the words “hardcore” to mean those who seek challenge and “casual” to mean those that just want to mess around in the world.

I don’t like those new definitions. I’ve always seen the “hardcore” as those who just spend a lot of time and energy in the game, and “casual” to mean those that don’t.

In that I fully feel that casual can still want a challenge. I play GW2 quite casually, especially compared to how I played my old games where I’d spend a whole day just studying things to optimize myself for later events. Now, Well when I log in it’s for maybe an hour or two of play then I’m out. To me that’s quite casual, but I still want a challenge for while I’m playing.

This is what held me off from fractals for so long as they were simply a huge time investment that as a casual (by definition) player I couldn’t deal with. But, eventually I found friends to play them with and made them reasonable to complete when I had the time.

I don’t see raids altering the definitions of those two categories. I imagine a raid to still be withing ~30 mins as designed. Upon first encountering them, sure you might see 2+ hours of banging your head, but once they get figured out a bit more and hints spread, it wouldn’t be surprising to see them drop to under an hour. And with practice 10-15 mins for a run.

That’s still casual to me.

That’s how I saw my move from EQ to DCUO, going from 3-4 hours 3-4 days a week of raiding to 3-4 hours a week of raiding with raids that lasted 5-10 mins being quite common. Before I quit that game we had the hardest raid in the game down to 6 mins to complete, the second hardest at around 10-15 for regular casual farming.

Again, I see myself as casual, jsut when I log into a game I don’t want to be just running through the motions to farm stuff, I want to be banging my head on something that interests me. So I’m casual but challenge focused.

lordkrall.7241:

Exactly.
Just like how things in other oh so challenging encounters in other games won’t happen if people do what they are supposed to do.

Didn’t we have this same discussion a few pages ago?

Windsagio.1340:

I’m not in a state to respond well right now, I’ll read your example raid idea nad give it a shot in the morning. Now isn’ta good teim ><

:D I’m jealous, I just got off work and all the stores are closed no drinks for me till morning! arg.

Abnaxis.4593:

Jerus.4350:

snip

I factored in the 10% at 50% counting it at 5% overall. According to my calculations, you can juuuuust get to 100% when the 10% kicks in alongside fury and banner with a celestial build. Accuracy is definitely sub-optimal in assassin’s, but since the second signet is usually “whatever floats your boat” I didn’t bother researching around a whole lot for the “optimum” signet in the second slot. Since this is an alt, I don’t want to have to craft a handful of rifles to switch out for when it’s nightime/fighting specific enemies/whatever. Though, I guess it would be easy to sub zerker in for assassin’s until you can get the full benefit of an accuracy sigil…

To your second point, there’s only 1 toolbelt skill that does damage on this particular layout (grenade barrage) with the others either healing or adding a 15s more burn. The grenade barrage packs a decent wallop, but shaving 3 secs off the 30s cooldown isn’t going to make a huge difference

What I’m going for, is a “whatever I feel like doing today” build. If I want to do open world, or soloing, or dungeons, or WvW, or whatever, just go out and do it with the same set of gear. Of all the stuff I like doing, dungeons seem to be where builds gonna matter most (and I always PUG) so I wanted to know exactly how much of a DPS hit adding a fair bit of survivability would incur.

I went through all this work under the assumption that ANet will make conditions more viable in the near future. Call me an optimist.

If you’re looking for “exactly how much of a DPS hit” it is, then don’t sugar coat it. I mean you go to all the trouble of the deviation but ignore static discharge/toolbelt recharge and a likely superior second sigil. It adds up.

That said, again I don’t think celestial is bad, but I’d bet calculating all that stuff in you’re gonna see it drop down to 80% or close to it instead of your 85% you claim.

Also, if you PUG a lot I’d really suggest Strength Sigil as most PUGs I run into suck at might unless I get lucky with a PS War. Energy is of course a nice catch all defensive option. I have 2 rifles on my Main Engi and I’m happy with them

Seth Moonshadow.2710:

Jerus.4350:

I think the more accurate differentiation is that a raid is multiple base groups, whether it be 2 or more doesn’t matter, just more than what you have in your typical party system.

To be more accurate, here is the exact quote “Raid groups are a way to have parties of more than 5 and up to 40 people, divided into up to 8 groups of up to 5 players. “ ~ WoW Basically a Squad Leader or Commander Tag, multiple base groups in one larger formation.

So we basically have “Raid” ability already in the form of Squads. We have “Riad” content in the form of Tequatl The Sunless, Triple Trouble, Karka Queen, and as I stated before any of the world bosses. We also have “Raids” in WvW basically anywhere you seen a Commander Tag.

I still vote for and use the terms Clear or Vanquish for dungeons since other terms like Missions (used for guilds) or Adventures (coming in HoT) are in or will be in current use.

What would be REALLY nice is if commanders could see those in their squads using the small party icon view as a separate window. In my opinion at least that would be helpful

Yup, though I don’t see how quoting WoW (not even the first MMO to use raids ) makes anything more accurate. Raid = multi group/party content.

Windsagio.1340:

I admire your confidence that it will fix the class issues, but especially considering your general attitude I find it absurdly (and out of character-ish) optimistic.

We know how this goes with other games. Even in 40+ groups what’s considered acceptable and useful doesn’t change much, and if the content is actually hard the dichotomy is even greater.

Only in poorly made content.

Ugh, open your mind man.

Content made for a diverse set of builds will use a diverse set of builds. If made ideally for this game it will allow an even wider set of builds.

I’ll just point up to my raid example I posted before, you’d have content that defensive gear would likely be wanted, where Condi would surely have a place and then Power damage nice as always. All 3 being part of your team.

All it takes is making content that plays to different strengths, it’s not all that complicated.