While I can agree that a lot of the complaints in this game are knee-jerk reactions. (even I sometimes feel like thief should not be doing NEARLY as much damage as they do in sPvP, even if the build fails in tPvP.) There are some good suggestions in these boards that Anet should follow.
There are informed, intelligent players around who sit and do studies and tests concerning part of the game, weighing in on the balance and tradeoffs of each class and build. They’ve been making feedback as well. Feedback that shouldn’t be ignored just because the mass swell of players are crying wolf.
Anet still has my benefit of the doubt, but that may not last long if continue to make adjustments in the opposite direction that testing and studies from dedicated players conclude.
The Bioware creators quit because of fans reactions, and that was after they had admittedly made quite a few mistakes. I think it would even be worse to deal with the knee-jerk reactions of “fans” when you are doing everything right.
Miserable.
Parroting Pack-attack does not make one man’s opinion true. You have no clue what made the Bioware Dr.s quit and neither does Michael Packter. I hate qqers as much as the next guy, but MP was just looking for an opportunity to slight the whiners, even I saw through that and I hate the QQ fest every forum turns into.
That was my conclusion as well. We’re still dominating any fight we get the drop on, we still have the weaknesses we had before. All this did was harm our PvE game.
I’m going to say this plain. Arenanet needs to stop making adjustments based off of PvP game without considering PVE, or their larger chunk of players will suffer for it.
The recast on phantasms isn’t the problem, it’s the damage they deal in comparison to the damage a Mesmer proper should be dealing. And the easiest way to change that is to make the trait that boosts phantasm damage instead boost the damage of the player per phantasm out.
Yes, we already have a trait that works with illusions that way. However this counts clones as well, and is a minor bonus. Phantasms can be an additional bonus because having them out, reveals the actual Mesmer and puts them in more danger.
I believe that would be a fair trade that would keep Phantasm builds viable, but keep the phantasm abuse down.
As far as this ’nerf’s’ effect on PvP, it won’t solve anything for the qqers as it didn’t resolve shatter builds and it it won’t have the intended effect on phantasm builds.
(edited by Kalar Meadia.8439)
Well now they’re on a 20 second thing average, even though it wasn’t the adjustment those who were complaining were talking about.
Oddly, they were adjustments to iDuelist and iWarlock, one of which I don’t even use in my rotation, and the other winds up sitting on it’s cooldown fairly often.
Not exactly sure why Signets needed a nerf on both Mesmer AND Elementalist, I don’t think anyone was complaining about those in particular, but it will up the frequency of people who turn up their mouse sensitivity, at least.
Another matter entirely, but one I whole heartedly agree with.
I know eSports loves revolving around only one game type, but if Guild Wars 2 wants to benefit from being one, given the diversity of their class builds, I’d say they will actually benefit from more than Capture and Hold with various gimicks attached to them.
Not that I mind the idea. But I just think it can benefit from other class types.
Heck, if they make it so bundles can’t be carried through portals, I MIGHT encourage an elaborate capture the flag map.
However I’m most interested to see if they cannot duplicate the typical MoBA ‘invade and destroy’ maps, where you would have to pressure and defend turrets leading up to the base.
The “Progression” system would have to be nixed, of course, but there’s a lot of elements that could be preserved from the MoBA setting.
How i wish it was: bunker = balanced = burst
How it is: good bunker = undefeatable even with 3 burst = win because of pointholder even though noone died in the whole match..And if you dont agree with that you have never fought 5 guardians which all were 100% specced in defense and healing which cant be 1v3d because they can stand still and take all hits while suviving
You had next to no poison or condition damage then.
Necromancer + Thief (Defensive thief.) Should have melted your Guardians easily.
Sadly, the Developer Stated combo that “Burst” is supposed to counter “Bunker” simply isn’t true because most burst classes do not successfully CC before bursting, giving the guardian plenty of means of recovery. This leads consistent damage to pick up the slack, which is actually more successful as it’s passive and much more difficult to counter.
fallconn, it’s not hard to retarget them as soon as they reappear. Mesmers only have two stealths possible unless they trait for a third (which is a bad trait to take IMO)
So you target them early, hope they blow stealth to clear target. You take that opportunity to disengage and reassess, retarget them and collapse. (That second stealth is their ult, you can interrupt it.)
There’s no need for target to pass through stealth and it was a major complaint from mesmers earlier.
As far as calling thieves, do not bother, lay down the AoEs and condition damage near your players, and the thief will have to retreat out of melee range or die.
IMO the strongest thief buid does not involve the mass abuse of stealth anyways.
I have played a mesmer since my first day in beta and haven’t changed since. I think I am probably one of the better sPvP mesmers but I am so tired of seeing mostly mesmers and thieves in pvp that I am considering changing my class. I picked mesmer because it was the underdog class, now I feel like there are far too many of them.
I agree that there are a lot of bandwagon Mesmers out there. I take a bit of giddy delight in schooling them, but beyond that I’d like diversity in matches.
I just take it as an opportunity to get more intimately familiar with other professions. And in doing so, it’s reaffirming my assertion that Mesmer is more misunderstood that overpowered. The knowledge of how the class operates really plays in my hands when fighting them.
You’re making a lot arguments to fix a lot of Bugs, traits and bad AI’s in necromancer – arguments which I won’t argue against because I want them to happen.
But it has no bearing on Mesmer itself or the state it’s in, and your entire post becomes red herring if your approach is to nerf mesmer.
We shouldn’t be bringing pet builds down to the level of broken and ineffectual. We should be bringing the ones that aren’t working (mainly Necro pets) up to snuff.
Also, there are only 2 Phantasems that spawn next to the target. Warden and Berserker, and Warden is kinda lulzy in sPvP. It’s a good thing to keep in mind because Zerker has a 20 second cooldown before traits.
If you’re fleeing a greatsword Mesmer, remember to dodge.
Highest BURST Made by this Mesmer! 17k one shot ^^ Whats yours?!!!
in Mesmer
Posted by: Kalar Meadia.8439
I happen to like my Phantasmal Defender, but that’s not what’s beating a shatter build.
It’s just recognizing a shatter build when I see one and when to blow my own defensive cooldowns.
Cause in a parallel universe melee and ranged combat are the same…
Cause you know, Warriors don’t have access to Rifels at all. And there’s no such thing as a Dagger/Dagger elementalist.
On topic:
I’m iffy on normalizing health pools so much. Keep in mind that Elementalists have some of the best health regeneration and damage mitigation abilities in the game outside stealth (which isn’t damage mitigation, it’s an avoidance ability. I can avoid damage on my elementalist as well.) So having them more vunlerable to burst might be conceived trade-off.
Still, I find a lot of these issues to be more concerned with the way pendants work in this game as the core part of builds. We may see an adjustment there, rather than to individual profession builds.
(edited by Kalar Meadia.8439)
I’d support a suicide skill in these cases.
However, bumping a downed opponent off point requires blowback skills, and there very profession specific.
Thief, engineer, Warrior, and Mesmer also all have abilities that can potentially knock themselves back on point as well, leaving you bereft of a cooldown.
I’ve seen this trend start, and I’ve also have countered it. (Knockdown, Stun, Mass Invis, revive w/distortion on hand against interrupts.) Doing it can easily backfire on you if you’ve not downed their roamer, and you’re inviting yourself being focused.
Again, the trend will likely spark adjustments and then die out. Not something I’d grow to rely on.
Some things on elementalist seem like they could use a buff, but I won’t make that call until I’m equal footing on games spent with it as I am my other characters, and even then, it’ll likely just be speculation on one build.
My goals are to find a build that fits me and the ‘character I’m playing’ the most and stick with it and make it as best as it can be. Unlike other people, I won’t waste my time qqing, though I will commentate on intent feedback and try to clear misconceptions when I see them.
For example, for all of Elementalists seeming squishy, it’s usually a matter of being caught off guard/with buffs down. In the middle of the fight I’m rotating a great deal of buffs on and off, and it can keep me in there quite a bit.
Probably not a smart trend to encourage actually. It’ll cause them to buff downstate so it’ll be capable of downing players that ignore them.
Mesmer already has access to summoning an illusion that can do high damage while still downed.
And, I’m not entirely certain, but if I recall correctly, an enemy downed on point still counts towards keeping a point neutralized. If you don’t finish them, they deny you points. Anything more than 5 seconds, per, and you negated the point gain from killing them.
It would be interesting if the attack effects from Mesmer (The lightning streaming from it, and the Illusionary Wave) all carried the effect of the weapon layering on it as well.
But I’ll be working on Bolt first anyways.
My reply lenght became gigantic, so I’m just going to post the TL;DL version.
1. Every class has a pet mechanic, that comes with advantages and disadvantages. Mesmer’s core mechanic is that our illusions are both blindly focused on their objective, and die/cc easily. This makes up for the fact that they are moble.
2. The concept that AI bypasses stealth works for all AI. However, unlike other pet systems in which the pets will continue to aid the fight by attacking other targets once one goes stealth, a Mesmer’s pets will idle if their target is stealth, and will only re-target if the chosen target crosses the invisible wall of maximum control distance mesmer has while stealth.
Otherwise, the Illusions will chase the fleeing opponent until they reach max control distance, and then promptly fizzle. Turrets will remain even outside of max distance. Pets, Necro-minions, Elementals, Spirit Weapons, and Thieves will all theater back to their master.
Of the above listed. Necro-minions, Turrets not summoned by Supply Drop, have a duration limit. None of the the above aside from Mesmers die when their target is finished.
The Bottom Line: AI mechanics are an central part of this game and each classes’s mechanics. Each ‘pet’ has it’s own advantages and disadvantages, Mesmer illusions being no exception to this.
Edit: Oh look, it’s Captain Mesmer Hater himself. So kind of Arheundel to grace us with his presence.
Sorry, but once this guy enters the conversation, the side he supports loses all credibility.
How’s that 4th illusion working for you there buddy?
(edited by Kalar Meadia.8439)
You don’t like it?
Presonally, I thrive in such chaotic envrioments. The overly clean-crisp concepts of certain eSports is too regimented. You can tell who wins a teamfight almost immediately, you can make a fairly accurate assesment of who’s going to win simply because of the team composition.
You can’t do that here, as much as the whiners like to say as much. Bunker guardian’s have their counters, even before they got nerfed. You never know when you’re going to encounter a team with a good coordination and odd builds that you’re unfamiliar with.
Or even just well built combinations that utilize abilities in ways you don’t know how to counter.
The Metagame is still way, way, WAY too early to be making the sweeping generalizations about balance players are talking about just because they got pub-stomped in sPvP.
But issues like battle cleanliness. I’ve got no problem, as a spectaor, or a player, when things get a little crowded and messy. It separates people out from those easily distracted by shinies from those who can keep their focus in the chaos.
I’m starting to see a trend. It’s the same few people who are complaining about Mesmers venomately.
There are a few things on Mesmers that need to be toned down ,but buy in large it is a learn 2 play issue.
What I am finding that people are lacking in this sense is focus. They see a bunch of clones on the field and hesitate going “Which one’s the real one!?”
Same thing with thief, people see a thief stealth and suddenly it’s all stop ‘deeerp where did he go george, where did he go?’ and wait instead of laying down defenses or guessing an attack.
I’d almost say it’s an intimidation factor. Players just seem to be scared of these classes even though I’m wiping the floor with theives and mesmers both when I play other classes. (Particuarly on Elementalists. People seem to LOVE walking into AoE fields and burn themselves to death.
But beyond that, some people are just not countering the meta, which is getting so predicable my Elementalist is starting to have its way with them.
Again, there is no countering stealth specifically. You can slap down an AoE but that doesn’t do anything about the stealth. You’re basically arguing that stealth should have no direct counter to it and all I’m asking here is why. Why not have anti-stealth skills like most other MMOs do and force thieves and mesmers to actually think a bit when it comes to stealth usage?
They do, actually.
Stealth innately comes with it’s own counter. It’s called a “Revealed” buff, happens if you attack while in stealth, and prevents any other stealth abilities from working for that period of time.
Also, Mesmer only has 2 active stealth skills, aside from downstate, one of them is an Elite. We do have 1 passive trait that kicks in at 25%, but it’s identical to our decoy ability. Mesmers rely more on misdirection than stealth.
Now if you’re asking for abilities on other classes that inflict the revealed stat, I can get behind that. It would add some element of play to the game. But in trade, Thief is going to have to get some damage reduction abilities in common use.
But as for saying there’s no direct counter to stealth, I’m telling you there really does not need to be. There needs to be buffs and fixes to a lot of AoE and condition sections before we make the step to automaticly assume stealth is the problem.
The many thieves that have come back from stealth downed on the ground in my games are a testimate that stealth is not the ultimate defense that needs nerfing.
As a necro with 1700 toughness, I agree with you. I actually saw an 8.2k steal yesterday and it about made me quit altogether. Though I can’t complain as much since necro has higher base health and better defensive skills(death shroud). Anyways stay true and don’t reroll otherwise all we’ll see is effing mesmers and thieves running around telling everyone else they’re bad -_-
… You’re bad.
Ha, no, really. People act as if Mesmer Mains play no other class, yet here I am spending more time on my Elementalist now than on my Mesmer.
Then again, I’m an Altaholic. I love getting familiar with different classes and different personalities behind each of them. It’s enthralling and it gives me a wide perspective on the game itself.
So I have to ask: When you’re getting hit with these major crits, on Elementalist specifically. What are you building and doing that’s making you get slammed by a Thief’s crit?
In spite of the complaints of Dagger being so weak, I’m running a D/D cantrip build on my elementalist and I rarely get hit by backstab thieves. I’ve more problem remembering that I can easily break out of their Pistol Whip stun locking than suddenly getting nailed with a 9k crit (It happens, but rarely.) I’m just on the move too much for that with all the mobility skills and knock-ups / knockbacks.
I actually have fun harassing the thief by tripping my CC AoE’s right when they stealth, knowing full well they fall over or had to waste time evading it.
I’ve always been of the opinion that defensiveness in Elementalists comes partly from their mobility, ( / D builds) and partly from their boons and heals. Building toughness on them isn’t the solution to making the more tanky vs building up protections and healing.
It’s very similar to Mesmer in that regard – the defense is in the ability set, not the stats.
(edited by Kalar Meadia.8439)
You’d have a valid point if it knocked them out of stealth which it by all means should.
And yet it doesn’t. Using stealth currently requires zero intelligence since there is no counter to the stealth itself. I’d love to see certain skills be revamped into anti-stealth skills.
It doesn’t need to, really. A good AoE spread with these CCs downs any stealth-abuser unless they outright flee, and if they do, they’ve sacrificed their offense.
In many ways, stealth is predicible, especially on thieves. You watch them enough and you get an idea how most thieves move around, even when stealthed, and the best AoE builds are also centered around the caster anyways, which puts a barrier of entry for these spike damage types.
It’s just a matter of getting these non-stealthy classes to not build so glass cannon themselves. (And no, that does not means just gear toughness, have your defensive cooldowns at the ready.)
It’s my opinion that AoE’s need tweaking to be more dissuasive to some specific glass cannon builds. But beyond that, some people are just not countering the meta, which is getting so predicable my Elementalist is starting to have its way with them.
Sustained damage is useful in fights. Bursts only work if you manage to catch someone off guard, which really only works on glass cannon builds. Yes, if you catch a Bunker with Disable you might be able to focus it down, but you can just as easily explode yourself.
There are a lot of builds out there with good sustained damage, Necromancers are making a fairly strong appearance lately, and that’s their most successful build.
The focus on Bunker/Burst is just the current Meta, which is already in the process of shifting. I’ve had to change my Mesmer build to stay on top of it once already. Though, I can’t speak for my other classes as I’m still settling them in.
I don’t agree.
Telling class is as simple as targeting the individual. This is ignoring the fact that even reduced in size, each armor type is fairly distinctive from one another.
I’m wondering if this isn’t just a monitor issue for other players. I don’t have anything excessively large myself, mind you, but I also don’t have the old default square 17in monitors either.
I actually swear by Phantasmal Defender. It’s such a benefit due to the added Regen/Protection on top of it’s innate damage reduction.
Only issue is finding a slot of it on the bar, which for me, came at the cost of my condition removal. I countered this by going Lyssa build with Mass Invisibility.
Stealth is not an issue.
Again, Traps and AoE’s are under-preforming in many cases and once they’re properly buffed you’ll be laughing at your previous stealth problems.
Note that there are a good number of CC skills that are no-target skills, which can knock down a stealth target causing them to ruin the defense of theirs stealth as well.
I smell a troll thread.
I have absolutely no problems vs Asurans. Period. Tab targeting good and there are enough classes with Pets that will AI path directly to the Asuran and assault them.
You no longer get invulnerably when drowning.
I’d actually like to see what would happen if they’d make Raid on The Capricorn a 4 point map, adding a point on the ship and keeping the ruins. (You don’t waste half the map because you suck at underwater combat.
This way each team can hold 2 points and kills become more important, and there will be a constant struggle to hold all the points. It’d make the map far more strategic as well, as people will be entering and exiting the ship from multiple areas as well as invading the Ruins.
GS – S/P is a powerful Mesmer Combo and has been for a while. Taugrim picked up on it due to suggestions for it I beleive.
As far as how you run an armor build. That depends on your intent.
Burst Mesmers will go full ‘physical’ (Power + Crit + Crit Damage.) But in WvW, you’re likely better off supplanting Critical Damage for Condition damage.
Essentially, it’s a Berserker’s pieces vs Rampager’s pieces.
I donno. Bunker Guardians are LONG fights for me unless I can get successful chain CC.
For the most part you have to understand that picking out and sticking to the actual Mesmer is a Guardian’s best hope.
The more you stick on a mesmer, knock him down the less he can pull out those phantasms, the less he can clone produce. In which case, it’s actually spirit hammer that will be your biggest boon in the fight as it forces the Mesmer to focus on something other than keeping pressure on you.
Pretty much the order of business from a Mesmer’s perspective is to wear you down and watch for openings. Regardless of the build, if you can manage to keep the pressure on the Mesmer, as opposed to the other way around, they’ll likely fall to you. However, this is just speculation from a Mesmer’s PoV. I’ve not yet created a Guardian to play against a Mesmer, Soldiers are the last class type I’m discovering.
Stealth, Heartseeker Strike, and Thieves are not the issue.
There’s a reason why you’re seeing Necros rise as a well-preforming pub stomper.
Right now there the strongest AoE condition class out there, in a build state that has AoEs on the weak side, and they’re a hard counter to glass cannons like your heartseeker, stealth thief, and your phantasm mesmer.
In pro gaming, that’s what we call a meta shift.
Don’t nerf paper, buff scissors.
I’m not exactly too keen on the concept of split balancing.
When I get accustomed to a way an ability works in PvE, I want to be able to rely on those trained instincts to help me in s/tPvP and WvW. If they change the way it works in specific places, that’s going to hurt me.
Again, I thematically dislike Moa, but I don’t believe it’s overpowered, even in tPvP.
The big complaint about Moa in tPvP is that it can be used as the set up for chain CC and a Team Burst. But if that happens it should be your ally that defends you as it is a team game.
Again, the skill is annoying and unweildy, even to the Mesmer. But as Elites go it isn’t overpowered. I’d actually go to argue that many elites in this game are kinda underpowered.
Some of the downed states should be adjusted, but the theme behind them is fairly sound for each one.
They do what they’re supposed to do for each group and team, and yes, some classes have more advantage in sPvP for them. But they’re all fairly effective.
Even the root form Elementalist can have a use when used on the enemy who’s got low life and trying to flee successfully from the battle so they don’t get finished and you get a rally out of it.
Or, you can root a ranger who killed you at range and prevent them from closing in long enough to get a revive or vapor form to buy more time.
However, more powerful downed stated can outright be countered. Stability/distortion ends the knockback from the Guardians. Blink/Bolt Cantrip can adjust your finish attempt to counter a thief’s downed blink.
You can dodge roll/stability most knockdown effects, and let’s not forget stealth and quickness’s effects in stomping/saving.
In a zerg, these things aren’t necessarily thought of. But there are plenty of ways to secure kills.
In the end, in sPvP, downed state is a team mechanic. It gives your team one last ditch effort to save you if they can.
Again, it can use some refinement, some abilities deserve shorter cooldowns, others, longer windups. But for the general concept of it, it’s a very good mechanic that adds a feeling of urgency and struggle to fights.
It’s enemy only target, unfortunately. Still, it can often save you if you’re good about it.
Once I was downed beneath clock tower when my target moved to the clock tower point, and initiated Downed 2, and it pulled me out of the fray and into the clock tower area.
My opponent eventually spotted me and finished me off, but I was so far away from the actual fight, if they had been preoccupied there I could have gotten up easily.
The hard part is that the opponents tend to crowd you to finish you off, so it makes it hard to target something further away.
It you plan it right, this can be done with portal also to evade interruptions.
Just… don’t mess it up, once they’re on the portal it’s hard to initiate a finish.
One thing about blink adjustments, theyr’e not all that easy to pull off unless you have a good idea where they’re going to blink. It’s a fun trick to try but the cooldown can be spent better at other locations.
thieves and warriors don’t need quickness. please leave rangers be
the reason we suck without QZ is because 1/3-1/2 of our DPS is supposed to be our pets. So our weapons and base damage is weaker to compensate. Yet our pets are so fundamentally flawed that it means 1/3 of our overall damage is gone, permanently.
So rangers have had to rise to the challenge of becoming a competative class with this inherent damage reduction.
That sounds more like an issue with fixing the AI on your pets than really needing quickness. Not that I think quickness needs to be removed, mind you. It’s just that the power of one mechanic should not make up for the bugs in another.
I know Necros seem to have a lot of problems lately, or at least from the complaints I see.
But a lot of necros I’ve actually played with preform really well. What are your guy’s biggest gripes about your class in particular?
Um…
To be honest. I like our downed state abilities just the way they are.
Some things that should be known.
Your downed state #2 tosses you in a random location relative to your target, so if you want your downed state to be more evasive, try targeting an opponent further away from you, you’ll be interested in the results.
I happen to very much like our Downed State 3. It allows us to create an illusion to enable us to inflict downed on an opponent that was nearly downed. It also deals high damage to an already downed opponent, quickening our chances for a rally, both in PvP, and PvE. (Noticed it was more effetive in PvP actually.) This phantasm also remained alive if you rally and your target is still up. I’ve had Rogues kill a fleeing enemy as my allies revived me, and all we had to do was finish her.
Out of all the classes, Mesmer has some of the strongest downed state skills. I really don’t think they need adjusting, except for glitch fixing (I hate getting ported into a rock, thankyou.)
Keeping an eye on something means we’re watching it, seeing how it plays out, and making sure we don’t make knee jerk reactions (nerfs or buffs).
-snips-
Communication in-and-of-itself is a complicated thing, and the inherent complication of human communication is further exacerbated when it’s done via a web-based medium. We’re trying to do our best to communicate with you, so please understand that just because I say “keeping an eye on something”, that doesn’t mean we are nerfing X from orbit with a Nerf nuke – as it’s the only way to be sure. It simply means we’re keeping an eye on it.
/salute
Just as I took it.
All my <3s. They are yours now.
Immobilize is one of the primary reasons my Mesmer goes blink, and another good reason why I go Lyssa set/Mass Invis.
Without them, Immobilize can kill a Mesmer quick.
It’s not 100% Damage boost, it’s 100% speed boost. As a Mesmer, I can tell you that the translation isn’t perfect, and there’s plenty of wasted potential inside quickness when done.
Ability cooldowns and actual damage dealt per hit are normal. It’s just that the animation speed is doubled meaning you’re striking twice as fast and those with combo-skills and range auto-attacks are doing so at a quick rate.
Retaliation and reflection are really amusing counters to this, as you can watch them melt themselves.
I’d rather they not remove quickness from the game. Right now people are complaining hard about bunker/tanky builds and quickness serves as methods that could bust them down.
They could stand to make adjustments that would allow for more reaction times, or just tone down the abilities that are getting abused during quickness. But aside from quickraise/quickstomp, there’s not much to quickness that needs heavy nerfing.
It’s ok to be burst down occasionally. It’s part of the danger of competitive play – you have to be wary of it.
No kidding.
I’ll hold out, even knowing I’m going to die, on a point, simply to insure that the enemy is focused on me rather than the fact that they’re loosing/lost the two side points, and this is regardless if I’ve built bunker or not.
If I’ve held them off for more than five ticks, then I’ve done my job right, when outnumbered.
That doesn’t reflect well on me point wise, which doesn’t bother me all that much if I get the victory.
All good points, here, but why not just make “Skirmisher” the netural objective kill bonus?
I’m also certain that some point issues should be given some point adjustments as well.
Except pSwordsman doesn’t deal high damage because you’re low on health. They do high damage because the Mesmer is a phantasm build built crit/power himself.
And if the clone is 1200+ away from the mesmer, it shatters.
Wish I could justify offhand sword in my build.
5)Talking to you ..it’s really amusing, this is why Anet will nerf the mesmer…they can see what’s going on, Jon doesn’t come here telling us bullkitten like :" dodge or aoe spamm to kill mesmers"
Mesmer’s is all about timing, all about illusion management. When you play one, you realize how much you’re actually juggling all of it to work for you, and a lot can go wrong.
But you overly generalize my advice to sit and learn Mesmer a bit more, and it’s due to my continual frustration with you.
Dodging an important skill against a mesmer can set their entire rythim out of wack. You dodge a stun you can flee a shatter, you can evade the swap-imoba (all in the same time)
You chose to ignore these weaknesses and want Anet to make sweeping nerfs to Mesmer instead of the adjustments that need to happen (BOTH Negative and positive) to allow more diverse Mesmer builds to work, while discouraging adhering to just these specific ‘broken’ builds.
Essentially, you want to snuff Shatter and Phantasm builds completly, while most of us Mesmer want them to tweak those builds down, and buff/fix other builds of our so we can actually play other builds while still being effective.
6) Your idea of balance is to have only specific class to counter mesmer , aka stealth thief, sorry Anet has delivered us a non rock-paper-scissor game..or at the very least that’s what they’re trying to do.
No. No no no no no. You’re not reading! Pay attention here. That’s NOT what I’m saying.
No matter how many times Anet tries to tweak the game, Capture and Hold will always have specific roles Each role will have classes that are best at them, and classes that are best at countering them. Anet would have to rid the game of professions all together to prevent that from happening – it’s just too deep into the core of a class mechanics.
If they nerf everything it will become a simple DPS war. Skill won’t even be involved simply a matter of who does the most damage, and the classes that do so will be consitered broken. That’s why people hated the glass cannon builds early on.
What Anet is trying to do is balance it out so that each Profession is capable of many if not all roles, something I fully support.
To accomplish that, they will of course have to tone down the higher-end performer’s specific peak roles, as well as buff specific ones that are lagging. Let me make this clear: I support this and I’ve full confidence in Anet’s ability to make intelligent adjustments
Glad to see that no all mesmer players are like you…some actually care about balance, and frankly I couldn’t care less if few trolls have learned my name…as I have said, you can’t have a forum without trolls/haters
You ignore what people say in favor of insulting them, and you call other people troll’s. The reason why I have such a low respect of you isn’t because you want mesmer to be nerfed. It’s because you want Mesmer to be ruined.
There are plenty of abilities on Mesmer I’d like to see changed, downwards as well as upwards. My issue is, you’re painting with an awfully big brush insulting anyone who tells you to learn the class better with this giant ‘bandwagon’ stamp.
You’re the hater here, Arheundel. You hate Mesmer. And you blind yourself with that hatred by fixating yourself onto issues that are playability issues, NOT mechanical issues. Separate the two if you want to talk civily.
Let’s go over a list. Just not, that after this, I’m done with you. It’s obvious that you’ve not
1)You call me a liar for saying that mesmer can spamm phantasm every 8-10s, which is true, this means that destroying a phantasm is pointless, with over 2k HP a phantasm takes more than “one aoe” to kill; within those seconds that you hit twice the phantasm your health go down by at least 10k…but the mesmer got other 2 phantasm to summon after the one you just destroyed, and by the time you (eventually) destroy the third one…the first one is already fully charged again, in the meantime the real mesmer has maybe lost 2k HP ( if hit by your aoe luckily) and has already used the 2 stage daze to lock you in place
Let’s investigate these claims a moment.
The only two Phantasems that can gain an >10 second cooldown is pSwordsman and pDuelists. You must choose one as they’re separate traits on the same line, and you must invest a full 30 into dueling to do it effectively or else you sacrifice important traits such as deceptive evasion and/or phantasmal fury.
Assuming you’re talking about this specific build (10-30-0-25-5 is the build.) The mesmer himself is an absolute glass cannon, as are his illusions. No toughness worth to speak up means those Illusions are dead within the span of decent AoE not that it would matter as you should be applying them on the actual Mesmer at this point.
That 9 second cooldown won’t matter if your force the Mesmer to sit on it. It’s not a matter of blindly spamming your AoE’s, it’s about placing them to pressure the mesmer
2) No profession can spamm 3k dmg aoe at the same speed that mesmer spamm clones
Shatter specific Staff builds are powerful in that regard, I’ll grant you that. The root of this problem, however, isn’t in the fact that they can do 3k Damage with a clone burst AoE every 10.5 seconds. It’s that they can immediately follow with a slightly lower damage burst + confusion. It’s my opinion that confusion, as a condition, should be doing more damage in general, and Cry of Frustration shoulden’t be doing Any damage at all, but rather apply more stacks of confusion for long duration.
3) if not enough…mesmers go stealth and use MoA form
No love lost on me if they flat out get rid of Moa. If you’ve actually paid any attention to my posts, you’d already know that. I’d prefer something more thematic to the actual profession than a polymorph on steroids. That said, I still retain that Moa isn’t unbalanced, just broken (As in for there’s glitches that are moronic to have such as loss of all pets when moaed.)
Failing that, it’s a general understanding among Mesmer players that they’d willingly trade a shorter cooldown for a shorter Moa duration and to fix the issue with Pets. I typically run without it.
4)Playing tournaments and no spvp zerg, it’s normal to find mesmers on cap point, where dodging clones is kittening impossible given the restricted space and large radius of the shatters and if this wasn’t enough dodging a shatter won’t save you from the bleeding/cripple blast you get in your face, meaning that….destroying phantasms/clones won’t solve anything as you still get loaded with condition.
1. Where’s your roamer? Your roamer should be on your Mesmer like white on rice in any situation in which an offensive mesmer shows up, if you’re playing the bunker. Mesmers are one of the reasons the roamer role is needed. Rangers and Thieves make great roamers, btw, and do well against Mesmers if you don’t build them glass cannons.
The stealth that helps Mesmers reset fights plays against them if they’re trying to cap points.
2. I’ve said this before, but conditions inflicted by killed clones has a range limit. If you’re bunkering down, this kinda sucks for you because your’e to focus of a Shatter Mesmer’s ire.
But a ranged roamer should have no issues whatsoever if the shatters are headded to you.
Silv,
If you encountered five illusions, then be aware that they were from more than one Mesmer. A Mesmer has an absolute limit of 3 Illusions at any one time. If, at any time, they attempt to summon a forth, one of the illusions will be destroyed to make room.
Phantasms have priority over clones. Meaning a Mesmer that creates a clone when he has 3 Illusions on the field, will cause a clone to blow up unless he has 3 Phantasms out, in which chase the oldest Phantasm dies, and the clone produced is on the bottom of the priority list to survive.
Arheundel speaking as if he knows the least thing about balance.
Of course Mesmer’s going to get adjustments. You, who are of the whining camp, will of course celibrate with overzealous joy to anything that stomps you getting nerfed, blananced or not.
But you’re completely ignoring the important statment here. Let me quote it for you:
Balance. Really, balance is pretty good. We’re very observant of the meta, we read the forums, and we’re playing the game with you. We don’t want to make knee-jerk balance decisions. And if did whatever the community wanted, what would happen to balance? How many threads are basically: “NERF X OMG!!” “Learn to play , X is fine” “Omg no, we can’t beat X at all!” “Just saying, none of the people I know even run X anymore” “Hey you guys forget X, let’s buff Y!”….then this just repeats over and over. We can’t just do exactly what players ask for in relation to balance, because different players at various skill levels view balance differently. So what we do is balance community feedback with gameplay results. We don’t want to play whack-a-mole with balance, so we don’t just nerf/buff everything as soon as someone posts about it. It would ruin the game if we did. We try to be patient, see if the meta fixes itself (because a lot of times, once you learn how to deal with something, you realize it may not be as imba as you first thought), and then make long-lasting balance changes. We don’t want to nerf X, then realize no one uses it, and buff it again, then have to nerf it again, etc. etc.
This means they’ll be balancing the classes on a far more informed and inteligent basis than you will ever understand.
Playing the class among others enough to compare (I’m an altaholic, Mesmer is attached to the account name aka my favorite character. I play it because it’s personification matches an old favorite character of mine, not because it’s FOTM, like you assume). A lot of your gripes are absent of actual substance against an experienced player.
But again, I fully expect you to wave your had like you know more than someone who plays the class as well as others extensively. I don’t know the statistics more than the developers, I’d never claim that. They’re the one sitting with the raw play numbers. But I know the experience from multiple perspectives, something you’ve completely failed to display yourself – enough to earn you a reputation.
Now, instead of acting like belligerent, why don’t you ask me how I’d adjust mesmer? You can start by listing issues you see and I’ll tell you what from my perspective think can be tweaked.
Was it shatter you’re more concerned with? (A build pretty much designed only to burst down single enemies and only effective if you can continually cone produce, which sacrifices the boon-striping capabilities you were complaining about earlier.)
Or Phantasms? Which you claim mesmers ONLY sit behind LoS and use them endlessly like they have no cooldown and can never be identified/pursued?
On Shatter Builds.
Shatter builds end up being heavy burst damage, and looks good on paper, but it’s not sustainable.
Shatters can be evaded, Clones, the essential fuel of shatter builds, and be destroyed before they get to you if you maintain your AoEs.
As far kittenter cooldowns. The reason why cooldowns seem like such a problem with Illusionary Persona is because it’s 30 points down the Illusions line, which, as it’s passive stat increase, lowers the cooldown of shatters by 30%. (down to 12 seconds on mind wrack) without other skills/traits that colors.
Problem is, hitting the recast on Shatter would hurt shatters further on every other build.
It also takes a 30 0 0 0 30 build (10 randomly) to really do. Push the most out of shatters, which leaves a Mesmer lacking in defensive measures many mesmers take advatnage of.
Easier to kill a shatter based mesmer.
(edited by Kalar Meadia.8439)
…maybe you can tell me how to be bad with a power based phantasm build which doesn’t use moa form if ..eventually losing, in case you forget bad or good mesmer…the phantasm still deal the same uber dmg and still have a -10s CD
And if you’re getting hit by the predictable damage from Phantasms, and not properly clearning them, you’re bad yourself.
Every phantasm summon, without exception, has a cast time, has a motion.
A glass cannon Built mesmer will have Phantasms that hit hard, and little else. In which case, you’re foolish not to have your roamer pursue and kill said mesmer as their survivability is limited, and you’re playing into their hands by giving them breathing room.
Let me make this clear.
A bad mesmer throws his illusions at you in hopes they do the job for him. A good mesmer insures the illusions preform their function. They save their cooldowns so that the illusions come up at the correct time instead of chasing you until they shatter on the invisible wall of their maximum range.
You’ll fight a bad mesmer and be frustrated. You’ll fight a good mesmer and wonder wtf hit you.