Guild Wars 2

/signed

Orbs are just a source of trouble right now.

nerva.7940:

how do you think EVE players feel after investing hours of their time into building bases and taking territory, just to get invaded over night and get it all blown up? grow some, and stay up all night defending or capping smaller objectives if you care. WvW is kinda hardcore in that sense. if it’s too much for you, spvp is that away ->

You can’t ninja Sovereignty on EVE online. To contest Sovereignty you have to put Sovereignty Blockade units and online them. Which takes 3 hours each. And then bring down IHubs and stations which takes kitten loads of fire power, (not just 30 men like this). And after that you have online Territory Claim Unit which takes 8 hours more.

At any stage of this long process defenders can show up to stop you. Eventually if defenders have more fire-power than attackers they’ll get several chances to stop attackers. EVE sovereignty system is designed properly taking 7/24 into account.

EDIT: About Player Owned Stations (POS), they have ridiculous defenses. If you want to bring down a POS owned by a corporation you have to bring kitten amount of firepower.

For example in EVE there are several alliances which are stronger on different time zones, like EU ones NA, Oceanics even Asians. However game mechanics don’t allow any one of them to ninja sovereignty abusing time-zones.

Estes.3107:

so using your example which sounds about right from my experience in WvWvW.

It would be like for example (not actually happening).

Lets say its prime time playing time in NA and at that time in EU its sleeping time (less players on EU) and lets say it was a NA server vs 2 EU servers (not possible so dont slam my example open your mind a little) since its prime time in NA and sleeping time in EU the NA server will have a effortless domination of all borderlands (not very fun but fruitful with the benefits earned from that time dominating the entire map).

Now its sleeping time in NA and prime time in EU and the same exact thing will happen but in the benefits go to the EU server. this is what is wrong with night capping its not the night cappers fault they are just playing when they can thats not my issuse.

My issue is the benefits of the easy domination of the map there needs to be an adjustment of the benefits recieved and there needs to be a adjustment of how easy it is to dominate an empty map.

The outmanned benefit from being outmanned is not enough, and the benefits of taking/defending a keep is not scaled to how easy/hard it was to do the accomplishment.

Once again this was just an example so please be open minded to what i was saying.

There are actually two problems (related to each other).

1. Easy map domination
2. Same benefits on a map dominated easily.

I think we’re on the same line here.

EDIT: I understand Oceanics are pretty sensitive on that and they are right. But it’s not just a Time-zone issue. Any guild/alliance an abuse this easy benefits by alarm-clocking. The problem is WvW game design is not ready for 7/24 combat.

Nucleotides.6928:

You guys act like how somehow your contribute less because you don’t play at an overnight time. That’s complete bullkitten.

No it’s not. When I plant 40 voice communicated men on one map at 9PM, with a good organization we can capture and keep half of the map for 2-3 hours.

If I plant 40 men on the same map at 5AM we can capture whole map in less than 1 hour (thx to golems and mesmer portals). And we can move to next map and do it there also. And then the next map. And all those points will be ours for at least 3-4 hours.

Same amount of people, huge difference in contribution.

I’m not against Commander should get earned but what makes you think that PvP achievement farmers will be a better commander/leader compared to gold farmers? Of course people that WvW more will know more about WvW however this won’t keep them:

TALK
LIKE
THIS
ONE
WORD
PER
LINE

After all I’m 100% sure that any guy spending 100 gold to that title, already play too much WvW. Otherwise they would spend their money else where.

With an achievement system, WvW might get filled with 16 years old commanders which play 10 hours per day to get it. It’s gonna be a title, not a tool. Please consider that.

Right now a guild with proper amount of players can buy that book to a guy they trust and want to follow. But with an achievement system, all commanders will be achievers not leaders.

EDIT: Perhaps something like getting commander as a guild upgrade which is really hard to achieve might be a good solution.

Arago.3706:

Anyone having a serious discussion about this isn’t saying that oceanic servers in general are the problem, the actual problem is servers with a ton of off hours players (sorry but you aussies are no so important that we are only talking about you) combined with a ton of NA players, have an advantage that nobody else can manage to overcome with any amount of skill. The skill cap being “get more off hours players”.

You don’t even need tons of off-time players. If a server can organize 50-60 guys at off time, they win the game. Currently this is the strongest (or perhaps only valid) tactic/organization on WvW. It’s soooo strong that, it’s not leaving room to any other tactics/organization. WvW is fun, but it’s not competitive and it doesn’t provide a strategic variety as one strategy beats it all.

It’s like an RTS game with one tactic winning everything else. Such games can not survive long.

Ashane.3520:

No ones asking the game to be fixed in anyone’s way. What’s being asked for is simply to make every players contribution count as much as every other player which currently isnt the case.

THIS.

I paid for the game the same amount with to Canadians. But my contribution counted really low compared to theirs on WvW.

Xsorus.2507:

Why do I think the main solution to this is for Henge of Denravi to lose? Because deep down, that seems to be what the main complaint is, that Henge of Denravi isn’t losing and SBI/JQ/ET aren’t winning.

I have a feeling of henge loses, that these complaints will magically drop off.

Because the number 1 rule of MMO’s is

“1. It’s never my fault as a player, I’m not a terrible player, if I lose, there is something in the game working against me”

What an EGO..

There are EU players here in this thread. There are several other players from NA which never faced HoD or will never face it. GW-2 is not HoD.

romsea.8539:

But Markan, Anet stated repeatedly that wvw is meant to be 24/7, and we all knew that server could be accessed worldwide from the start, so your “number 2” solution is already in place since launch…

No it’s not and will not be until

1. Region Tags of servers will be removed.
2. All servers share the same ranking list.

I’ve read this argument so many times however it’s false. When a new NA player gets in to the game 99.95 % he picks an NA server (except Canadians I suppose). When an EU player gets in the game 99.95% he picks an EU server (except a few WvW guilds playing in HoD). Almost all Oceanics plays at NA servers. It’s how Servers/Regions advertised before the start of the game officially.

When you ask people to pick Region before Server, and tell them both regions have different rankings, expecting them to spread out evenly to form up real 7/24 servers is absurd.

Please don’t come up with this claim anymore. Game mechanics don’t prevent people to that, but strongly discouraging players to create 7/24 servers.

I really hope ANet designers will stop claiming WvW is designed to be 7/24 as long as they keep regions. They are embarrassing them selves at best.

Smashing Mode.5840:

One thing i have learned from Runescape,is that f2p players have their own unofficial hiscore ranking.
Can’t we do the same thing?
Make a website that ranks servers based on points earned from x:time to x:time of the day.

I think it will come to that eventually. Though I can’t think of an easy way to do that, either than players posting screenshots at specific times of day.

Hix.8925:

Big NA presence on Euro bracket would be working as intended. The entire WvW setup is designed to inevitably concentrate all WvW population on 3 servers per bracket.

If that’s the case why Euro servers can’t match up with NA servers?

SKYeXile.2716:

HOD is getting rolled, our americans are sucking again, like last week. HOW WILL WE OVERCOME SBI?!?

Wait for Tuesday ;p

BlueOrange.5740:

If you want a fair fight in PVP, go to PVP, not WvW.

It’s like saying if you want a to play a fair game don’t play football but play basketball.

WvW and sPvP are completely different. It should not be “fairness” that makes you play one of that.

Yeah it was not working today for me either.

DJPenguin.6945:

Izuvac.5713:

like imagine 2 taliban server against 1 american.

this sentence needs to be immortalized in these forums.

I think I did it

Pryda.8257:

Frenchies will mostly attack each other because it’s funnier than attacking strangers. Don’t be so angry.

Most probably Frenchies on the loosing side will move to the winning French server tomorrow and stay there

OMG, what was that? Best thread so far. I’m laughing so hard I can’t even write

I think he was using a strange science fiction tool that writes whatever he thinks so we read his thoughts.

This is the highest tier competition going on EU:

http://i46.tinypic.com/1685tty.jpg

If that is intended, it’s what it is

I want to say that players playing on different times than me have the same right to play the game as I do with equal conditions.

Right now it’s not the case. We’re not playing on equal conditions. 40 player, playing on a specific time will have 10x effect compared to 600 players playing on different time. This is negating the effort of that 600 players, demotivating them, alienating them, eventually causing them to give up.

What we want is a scoring system which would even out effect of each player on the overall score. So that whatever time a player plays, she won’t get any advantage or disadvantage on her effect on overall score.

Scoring system shouldn’t enforce people to set alarm-clocks to be competitive. Scoring shouldn’t promote playing on a specific time. Just fix this and we’ll be happy.

@Preacher

Judge (old SCUM) is on Underworld.

However If we hand been at Piken Square we could call a Call To Arms to bring 50 man to map, find that little cat, and kill all the opposition in the process

Too bad we were not there

If you want to win, set your alarm-clocks.
/dismissed.

If you have more people you win. There is no tactics involved. Check the queues and compare it to rankings:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/Queue-size-data-from-9-14-to-9-18-NA/first#post200124

Cyclonite.5786:

This is contradicting. Either night capping is valid or it’s not. I just don’t see why people keep complaining and coming up with suggestions to “fix” or “balance” something that has been stated to be working as intended.

Ok think it about like this.

“Using Mesmer Portal to transfer mass amount of players is a valid tactic”
“Using it to teleport through gate is too strong and needs to be balanced”

This is told by a game designer.

Night capping is the same. It’s valid to use as a tactic. But it’s too strong and needs to get balanced.

Sky.9347:

Well, here we can begin to get into a rather interesting philosophical discussion.

Who knows what’s better for the long-term success of a game: the players, with little data and emotional perogatives – or the developers, with immense data and financial perogatives?

But I won’t. I will just say… I understand.

I’d say Developers of course… Oh wait….

Age of Conan
Aion
Star Wars : The Old Republic

Think Again..

Cloud.7613:

My server cannot accomplish to get 166 players, the only chance we have is to take advantage of what WvWvW is about, 24/7 PvP. There are no rules, maybe you’d be better off playing sPvP? no?

If you can’t bring 166 players to WvW perhaps you should match up with servers which can not bring 166 players to there? Does it feel fair for you?

Sky.9347:

You guys have to stop now. ANet chose a stance here, they aren’t going to adopt any mechanic that addresses this in any way.

I recommend we all turn our focus to what we can do to fix this, or adapt to it.

You are only going to frustrate yourself and destroy your own credibility by continuing to harp on something that has been definitively decided.

In my past gaming career I’ve seen many stances which they had to back up as players didn’t accept it. On EVE one of those stances resulted with a player blockade and a public apology from EVE devs. On SWTOR, they kept their stance and they lost more than half of their PvP player base.

We bought this game, we paid for it. We’re gonna not gonna leave it before we’re 100% sure we can’t fix this.

@ fractalKinesis

There is another valid idea:

Make scoring system to take number of total participants on WvW Map.

Cloud.7613:

I’ve not seen anyone prove how a good method will help even out peak times, just people with issues. If anything it’s abuse-able. My server, would only WvWvW at our prime time, so it would be WvW. When it’s our prime time, we log in and dominant, then leave. ??? Beats the purpose really.

No, it’s more like you’ll get more points with 166 people online compared to 20 people online. So whatever your numbers is each men will have the same effect to overall score.

Right now 20 men getting online with a good timing, can negate all the accomplishments 166 men did through whole day. Even though I accept this is a valid tactic, I believe it’s too strong and should be balanced out.

fractalKinesis.8569:

The thread is a bandage to that effect. Instead of not letting people play, they’re locking things down so there’s no point of playing.

I’m sure either Krusk has no idea on the ongoing discussions or he’s trolling for HoD. It’s better ignore this post and discuss valid ideas.

Cloud.7613:

That is absolutely clueless and self-centered. That attitude makes me pray this doesn’t change, because the ones who have a problem with it, will go to sPvP or quit, dont matter to me. I’m Oceanic and if I’m penalized for being across a big ocean, I think this goes further then on peak/off peak time zones.

You’re not gonna get penalized. You’re getting balanced so that you’ll have the same effect on score with rest of the world.

fractalKinesis.8569:

“Stop playing when I can’t play” is all I get out of these night-cap threads. It’s entirely reprehensible that you would consider your prime time to be the only time in which players may play.

War doesn’t stop overnight. Neither does WvW.

There are no other posts suggesting “Stop playing when I can’t play” except this one. If it’s all you get, you seem to missed a lot.

EDIT: And I started to think Kkittens a HoD troll to bring discussion to this point.

Cloud.7613:

America is not the only country who plays this game, there is no such thing as night capping. If there’s a possible way the points could be toned down if 1 server has a lot more players then the others, then I’d like that but as for off peak/on peak time, it doesn’t exist.

I’m playing at EU not NA.

Peak Time is the time when server population reaches it peak. And yes it exists. Though it might be different for different servers.

It’s easy to make a scoring system checking populations to make it even for all servers.

Check this thread mate >>

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/so-the-answer-is-locking-all-debate-down-about-night-capping

Felix.3028:

There are no “peak” or “off peak” times. It’s 24/7. Go play sPvP, please.

When they implement 40 vs 40 sPvP I’ll do it. For now as I love Mass PvP I’ll stick to WvW. Thx for the suggestion though.

Cyclonite.5786:

What are we debating here? Anet recognizes night capping as a valid tactic.

Night-capping is a valid tactic. However it’s too strong so we want it to get balanced.

Spreading competition to several servers is always a better solution than joining in 3-4 one. And this won’t work on EU with several Language specific servers which are already full.

Again with this scoring system players playing on off-time will have huge advantage against players playing in peak-time. Why punishing peak time players more although they are getting beaten by queues already.

ANet can fix this issue quite easily with some adjustments to scoring system which will take current population to account. Why we have to leave our worlds, our accomplishments, our friend, our community and all the other things to fix their game for them.

If that was their purpose at the start, they could flag servers as WvW and non-WvW so we would know where to go.

@Krusk

Please don’t do it. We’re trying to find a common ground not to get rid of off-timers.

Blaeys.3102:

---

I hope it will continue to be like this after a few months.

Enerjak.2475:

Besides… who says we cannot do the same to them? Each server without exception has late-nighters, people with odd schedules, etc. There is no 1 server doing this. That said, ours can retaliate in much the same fashion, perhaps even meet them and wipe them in the attempt.

Yes you can and you should do.

Actually if you want to win, what you should do is to delete that teamspeak, delete your alliance forum and only focus on getting more people up at 03-07 AM. If you can bring 60-100 people to WvW at 03-07 AM you win.

You don’t need to do anything else. Casuals will handle the rest for you at peak time. Perhaps you can put a commander for each map to help them a bit more, but I don’t think you need that either.

I really don’t want to demotivate you, however that’s the reality of current game mechanics.

Please someone fix this forum so we can quote properly

@ Virchow

I already made a long post about this issue. Let me post it here again

I’m a member of a EU guild with 100+ members. We’re pretty well organized and bring regular 10-50 man groups to WvW and generally change the tides of the map when we do. I was thinking to move to an NA server like SBI to even the odds against HoD. And in theory it sound great.

However in practice our management and member-base don’t want it, and it’s not about influence or upgrades. We can re-gain all the upgrades in a fairly short time. Problems are:

1. They don’t want to play on cross-Atlantic latency in such a game where latency matters. Especially on sPvP and WvW

2. They don’t want to be online on a under-populated time for PvE and sPvP

3. As that server is marked as NA, they have worries about or long term community size. As it will be really harder to find new EU players on NA servers to fill places of players getting bored of game.

4. No one is certain of future of WvW with this trend. It might be we’re gonna be the only ones on WvW in 3 months at late night times, and we’ll be forced to transfer back to an EU server.

To be honest, making a region based infrastructure with servers and WvW rankings divided to regions, and expecting to be a 7/24 game is a lost cause.

Also we don’t want to fix the solution for ANet as we’re paying customers not developers.

I hope this answers your question

etsmith.9025:

ok so they scale points
server A fields 6 pvp guilds per map and take everything. Once majority of maps are held, a prearranged amount of players leave before scoring only to return after scoring calculates. Since their team during that time had outnumbered buff, your score calculated at scale points while theirs at 100%
the opportunity for exploit are unlimited. As with the orb stealing exploit that should never happen, entire servers will generate ways to turn that type of system to their advantage.

Good mind excercise lets look at this.

First scenario: Server A fields 6 pvp guilds at peak time. As they will have full opposition from Server B and Server C they will have a really hard time to take everything. However if they do, they definitely deserve to win as they proved they beat 2 servers on peak time.

Second scenario: Server A fields 6 pvp guilds at off-time. They will own everything easily bu as there will be little less opposition they can only stack 1/3 to 1/2 amount of possible points due to scaling. As they sleep they will order all their players to get off WvW. However this time other two servers plant their forces due to it’s getting peak time. And they will get 2/3 of points as there are full two servers. And not only Server A loose everything, but also Server B and C will have more points due to there is more people on WvW in total.

So in both scenarios this tactic doesn’t prove to be any addition to Server A would do by other more conventional tactics.

Edit: About majority of players leaving and returning after scoring, I don’t think its not viable to do each 15 mins every day.

Kryptorchid.7620:

“Night capping” would be an issue in 24-hr matches as well… The only time “night capping” isn’t and issue is on Friday and Satruday, since those players complaining about “night capping” can stay out to “night cap” themselves.

You’re right. However at least we can have some competition on some matches. Not waiting for a re-match for half of the week.

etsmith.9025:

what most aren’t realizing is effecting the scoring eventually will become a double edged sword. at some point YOUR server will be the “nightcappers” and will have limited returns on your scoring.

We’re OK with that. I believe no one promoting scaling idea have issue with this. As current scoring problem demotivates winners as much as losers. I’m not getting online on WvW much until Tuesday, even we’re winning with a certain amount due to our better night population.

Felix.3028:

Most of the people opposed to 24/7 WvW just need to discover sPvP. sPvP is set up for balanced matches, WvW is a sandbox environment specifically designed for “anything goes”. Quit asking ANet to turn WvW into sPvP, it already exists.

There are not 40vs40 matches on sPvP. If such a time comes, we “enjoying mass pvp” can leave WvW free and focus on sPvP.

I agree on this until there are some improvements on scoring system.

RaCio.6891:

tl;dr: the tactic is fine, its rewards are problematic

Completely agreed. If we can focus on this issue, we can find a common ground to agree upon.

Meram.4092:

Until other servers organize, fund and coordinate together, those who are already doing this will continue to win. Anet made the game and set the conditions, either adapt to them or quit playing. It is not the developers place to bring you a blanky and dumb down the competition so you can feel good today. Get stronger and win if it’s that important to you.

From what we’ve seen adaptation period doesn’t work as intended. And if devs won’t help us on that, most probably it’s gonna be the “leave” option for a decent amount of player base.

Enerjak.2475:

…

Good suggestions mate and great initiative. However as you get better organized and move to higher ranks, you’ll realize the strongest tactic is alarm-clocking or using time zones in this current scoring system. And all the points you gained by your superior organization, shared teamspeak will get erased by 30 man pugs using /team chat when you sleep.

Cloud.7613:

No we wont? Because our NA players will get demolished. People don’t understand how many Americans are up at Australian to early morning time and are actually playing. We don’t roll the competition, Sea of Sorrow’s actually loses a lot of the time to Americans, what do you know? we lose on all fronts. You want to make it worse?

Sea Of Sorrows at the ranking 8. It doesn’t look like a server that loose on all fronts.