Guild Wars 2

Today we had one of the biggest zerg fights trying to push RoF to their respad by capturing their entrance tower. And it was very funny.

We had like 60+ people around us, dying one by one, seeing combo fields all around but can’t even target one opponent for some time. One of my friend said on TS “I’m just running around while AoE’ing and see the numbers from no where” and we laughed hard.

I’m quite certain RoFs were having the same issue as we were been able to push them back. Even though funny, it was a bit disorienting.

Underworld: 249,869
Ring of Fire: 174,046
Whiteside Ridge: 111,173

I want to tank both RoF and WR, they never gave up bringing good fights at prime times. Especially RoF deserved more points definitely.

Looking at the other scores it seems only one match proved to have a long running competition through out the week.

I believe many players were waiting this game as it’s advertised that you won’t have to grind to be effective. You suggestions creating a really huge grind, which has serious impacts on WvW effectiveness

Just talking for myself, such a feature would definitely make me leave the game as I just left SWTOR for exact same reason.

@OP
completely agreed on all the points.

NoizeMaker.8367:

I can spam crap tons of seige with using my badges of honor.

How about this. Keeps/Garrisons and Towers/Supply camps require only badges/karma/supplies to upgrade where as seige’s require only gold.

I think ANet is looking WvW as a gold sink. Otherwise I think everything in WvW should be freed from gold, just like PvE.

Actually using gold gained from PvE on WvW just doesn’t seem right.

@bobitsch

Dominating is not fun also. On current match-up, it was pretty obvious we’re gonna win this match at Tuesday. So I gave less effort on WvW.

Interesting thing is we completely facerolled by another server last week. And again we left the competition around at Tuesday I guess.

Furiousbeard.7602:

Let me get this straight. You make a post that says “here is a perfect solution” which is then followed by “this is not QQ” (yet you’ve been qqing about nightcappers all day), then followed by “my solution has problems, see point 1 and 2”. Then you make vague pointless statement about casual players playing casually and then leaving… silently….

Hahahahahahha, XD

How is anybody supposed to take you even remotely seriously when you post things like this?

I’m saying there are some problems and some people are putting those on forums. Some others don’t do it and start to play less (or casually). And they will leave the game in time, without extra warning.

What’s so hard to understand about it?

Omega.8573:

Again – your answer is incredibly ambiguous. Name one that isn’t korean.

WoW, SWTOR, Age Of Conan, Rift are the ones that I played.

Same here, I think it’s a bug.

I believe Derek is one of the guys from Titan Alliance trying to convince randoms to move to other servers

The most overpowered thing is the guy awake at 05:00 AM.

I believe everyone at NA should transfer to HoD and everyone on EU should transfer to VS. I think this would solve the problem completely.

However it’s just not QQ. There are 2 serious problems with current game design.

1. Long Queues on primetime
2. Investments going to nowhere when you sleep.

So some players just play less WvW or play casually. Some come here and try to find a solution. The first group is the one that you should fear most as they’ll go silently.

Fed.8594:

Isn’t EVE on one server? I don’t get why Anet have specified different regions for their servers if they actually intended everyone to just play together regardless of where they are from.

Exactly what I wrote. I’m 100% sure ANet didn’t thought this might come to here.

Eivene.9127:

Like others have said, EVE players did this. They got organized and they pulled it off. I see no reason for us not to be able to do the same.

EVE players don’t pick a region as they get in to the game. They can’t even pick a server which is flagged for their language. They don’t loose all their achievements when they decide to ally with another corporation with a different timezone and move.

They have to play on the same server, all of them. They have no other choice. Remove the “Region choice” and “Language choice” when you enter GW 2 before comparing to EVE

Putting a 24/7 feature on a game which is separated to regions (even though it’s possible to move between) is not the best idea if you ask me.

Looking at those screenshots can anyone claim ranking/match-making system working as intended?

Ok here’s an idea, bakitten as much as you want.

Whether it’s considered as a problem by ANet or not, a certain amount of WvW player base is unhappy about two things.

1. Long queues at prime time
2. Investments going to waste when everyone is sleeping.

The reason is obvious. WvW is 24/7 game, however servers are divided to 2 regions NA and EU. In EVE you don’t have such problems because EU and NA players play together on the same server. In GW 2 you can expect people to do that also (which some servers successfully achieved that) however when a new player enters to game, his first choice is a region (NA/EU) before picking a server.

Solution actually is pretty simple, problem would be solved if some EU players would play at NA servers and some NA players play at EU servers. However it’s not easy to convince them to do that for 2 obvious reasons

1. They don’t want to “permanently” WvW/sPvP/PvE on a cross-atlantic server, due to latency
2. They don’t want to loose all they built on their current server.

So if ANet would provide an incentive to mix those players just for WvW purposes, more than “slightly encouraging” them, perhaps all those problems would be fixed. Encouraging doesn’t work as we see on the past, so perhaps some game feature might fix it.

I call it Dual-servers. Someone might call it Sister-servers.

Idea is to bind each NA server with an EU server for WvW. And make their ranking common. They will continue to do their WvW matches on their own zone and facing servers in their own region, however they will share 2 things

1. Ranking
2. WvW playerbase.

Whenever a player will pick a map, she will also pick one of the dual servers. For example I’m playing on EU zone and Eternal Battlegrounds have 30 min queues. I want to organize a guild event with 30 man, but it’s impossible to port them to EB. It’s not as I can port them to my Dual NA server’s EB and do my event there. By doing this I participate on my ranking also. So as my dual server get higher score, my server get higher ranking also.

Matches and rankings will be decided always by dual-rankings. For example dual ranking of [Henge of Denravi-Piken Square] is 1st they will face the 2nd duo on ranking which is [Anvil Rock-Vizunah’s Square] and 3rd dua on ranking which is [Sorrow’s Furnace/Far Shiverpeaks]. So it will be (HoD vs AR vs SF) on NA, and (PK vs VS vs FS) at EU.

It might sound like HoD facing AR is a bit unfair, but on the otherside VS vs PK will even the odds. And ranking system will work better to match similar duos.

Great things is whenever your maps are filled with queues you’ll be able to play on another regions maps without waiting, and by doing it participate your server’s ranking also. In the same time, you’ll be sure that whatever upgrade invested on a keep, will be defended by your dual server while you sleep

How to pick which NA server will duo which EI server is not included in this concept. I’m pretty sure ANet would find the best method. I didn’t check that but I guess their numbers are not the same, but it could be easily fixed by adding some extra EU servers or even perhaps Asian/Oceanic servers or perhaps merging some NA servers. As free transfers are still up, those servers will even up quite fast. Faster than now.

In time I’m pretty sure great alliances of top servers of NA/EU servers will help form up similar alliances on their dual servers.

I don’t think implementation of this system will be as easy as it seems, especially if character/login servers of both regions are unaware of each other. However this is the best solution, which will keep competition up, organization still there, with less queues and more fun that comes to my mind.

Please shoot your questions, and make me cry.

@Sausage

If a certain amount of players of a game is complaining about something, then there certainly is a problem. It’s a game and if players are not happy, they will leave the game.

RamzaBehoulve.5640:

urzen.7096:

The problem with 1 week matches if the rolling score of course. Once a team builds a lead, theres no way for other worlds to come back, making WvW less popular till the reset. Something needs to change to encourage playing till the end. Theres all sort of solutions to this that have been posted. The match time is moot.

There are quite a few matchups in which this is not true.

I really doubt that is common, even on the high tier servers. Ranking system rarely match 3 really equal servers together. Night capping, Orbs and several other features are demotivating loosing servers.

With current system 2 week is too much. I’ve yet to seen a match which competition continuous after 3rd or 4th day. It might happened on other servers but I don’t think it’s that common.

1 day is too short though. I think 1 week is OK for now. I liked Soba’s idea of 2 match per week also. It might be better that weekend matches can see less “night capping”

Perhaps with some improvements on scoring system 2 week matches might be viable but currently they are not.

Omega.8573:

And also you guys keep making these invisible references of “you shouldn’t get better gear for playing more so you can steamroll all the players”. What are you actually referencing? Give me one example in the current MMO genre, and I’ll tell you why that’s a bad example.

The point is there are more than 40 MMOs out there in which you can get better gear and streamroll others (mostly Korean though). GW 2 is one of few, which skill > gear.

Why not playing one of those 40 games instead of trying to change what this game is?

Psy.6153:

As it stands, this is looking very very bad for Anet and they could be on the verge of making history for the biggest MMO collapse of all time if they dont give us a reason to keep playing.

I think history for the biggest MMO collapse already achieved by Age Of Conan and then overwhelmed by Star Wars : The Old Republic

It’s really hard for GW 2 to reach their fail.

However it seems there is a very decent amount of player base who buy this game without checking it’s feature set and goals I kinda feel pity for them.

Psy.6153:

this
game
lacks
any
purpose
to
WvW

It’s hell of a fun when I do it with my guild. I do not need any other purpose to it.

For example K/D ratio stat might have more effect compared to Repair Costs, when it comes to “mindless charging”

IMO stats/ranks for bragging rights wouldn’t damage anything and would a good carrot without cause balance issues.

However non of those stats/ranks should give any advantage to the player.

I left Starwars Old Republic at first month because I couldn’t keep up the gear grind. I believe I was a decent PvPer and my team/guild was pretty know in that server. However as the gear difference and grind for it hit my face, I had no choice and leave the game. Even though I’m a decent player, I had no chance against 14 year old kids playing 10 hours per day due to their high “expertise” (gear’s PvP bonus).

Mass PvP on Starwars again was a joke, just a zerg fest in such a way that the faction bringing the biggest/most geared zerg wins.

Now my friends still playing Starwars says it’s not that bad anymore, but that book is already closed for me and no turning back.

I was waiting Guild Wars II especially because ANet promised two things.
1. PvP will be skill oriented not gear
2. WvWvW there will be room/objective for small/medium scale organized groups.

And I’m not disappointed. I love the game so far, and I continue to love it. It’s been 1 month and I can’t even imagine leaving the game.

However whenever I see posts promoting gear grind, or that want to change WvW to Zerg vs Zerg, I really get irritated. Because I wouldn’t buy this game if I knew it will be like that. Because there is not many games around in which “skill > gear”, “organization > numbers”, “time on thinking>time spent on grind”.

So I beg you guys. There are several gear oriented games out there. Play WoW, Tera, Aion, Rift, SWTOR, countless korean games. Leave GW II to us

I beg you there are several zerg oriented games out there. Play Aion, SWTOR, Daoc. Leave GW II to us

:(

Just be patient guys

Thorvald.5432:

The population in afternoon is far more important than night.

And the population at early morning is the most important one as you can completely reset all upgrades of all keeps and get 3 orbs back in less than 1 hour.

Even though game is international servers are not.

I believe having EU/NA server distinctions or FR/GR/SP language distinctions don’t work with a game planned to play for 7/24.

This is a contradiction, a serious design flaw

For EU servers 1 man playing between 00:00 GMT – 07:59 GMT worth 10 man playing between 08:00 GMT – 23:59 GMT.

Accept the fact, change your lifestyle or learn to live with it.

EDIT: I don’t try to say “night capping” is not fair. It’s as fair as it can be.
I’m just saying a decent amount of player base don’t and won’t invest on WvW, knowing they will loose it all before morning comes.

The only permanent solution to this is do what EVE does. Don’t separate servers by their region. Make them common.

And why this love again Piken Square? We (Underworld) haven’t face them for a long time, though I’m 100% sure we have beat them on primetime. Do we need to loose a lot to face and prove it again?

Arborstone is a night cap server

To bad, I wanted to face Vabbi however we’re stacking too much points for that I think. Perhaps we’re gonna face Jade Sea again. And yes playing against French servers suck as they always have a really strong night team.

What is the situation? I’m curious who might we (Underworld) face next week

@Ahmrill

I really don’t understand why a guild needs commander tag, don’t you have voice communication?

IMO Commander Icon is helpful to rally randoms at the map, especially on EB. Other than that it’s not useful at all.

So you’re suggesting ANet to remove all WvWvW maps and trash all that work they made to make it work and start from scratch?

@ Slamz
I made a long post on the previous thread where you accused me with same “ninja attacking”. I’ll repeat that answer here

You got me right there.

One man should be able to capture an undefended sentry point

A group of 3-5 well coordinated people should be able to capture an undefended supply camp

A group of 5-10 well coordinated people should be able to capture an undefended Tower

A group of 15-20 well coordinated people should be able to capture an undefended Keep.

There are different objectives for different group sizes on WvW map. For example for a 10 man group, if it takes 20 minutes to capture a tower, they can never do that as they will get caught by the other servers zerg eventually. So with such a game design 10 man groups loose their usefulness.

Such a design decision turns WvW to a “Zerg Or Nothing” game, as there will be little left to do for below 50 man groups.

So competitive guilds like mine that bring 10-40 man groups to WvW will require either create huge alliances to form up slightly coordinated Zergs, or most probably we just abandon WvW, look for something else that will promote our organizational success.

Competitive guilds that can bring 5-10 people to WvW will obviously abandon WvW, as their organization won’t mean anything.

So WvW becomes “chat coordinated” casual “clash of zergs” with some exception of Huge Alliances and Huge Guilds.

That’s not something I want to see.

I want WvW to present some valid objectives to well coordinated small groups which can “out-maneuver” zergs and do their jobs. And to counter them other servers use well coordinated small groups. And these objectives are Towers.

From what I know Towers never meant to be hard to take. It’s keeps and castles that you hold your line. Towers are medium scale objectives which small-medium scales group defend/capture. If all your server wants to stick with 70 man zerg attacking the next keep, of course they will loose their towers. It’s how it should be.

If WvW becomes “zerg or nothing” or in other words completely casual “lets smash our heads to each other’s until one is broken”, it’s not what I want. I’m pretty certain it’s not what competitive guilds want also.

You might be representing the player base which enters WvW casually, use chat to find out what’s going on, follow the zerg or commander, and bash your head to gate until either your head or gate breaks, and run back only after someone shouts “WE’RE LOOSING DREADFALL BAY WE NEED HELLPPPP!!!!” like for 6-7 times, I understand why you want an easier game which will hold your hand, teleport you to where fight is, and never request you do something “boring” until you get bored of killing/dying and running from respad.

However I’m representing another part of this community, which use voice communication, divide forces to small groups that gather up for big objectives and separate for smaller ones, always send scouts first before moving, carefully planning an attack, avoid unnecessary skirmishes which keeps us from our objectives, kill quickly and effectively and continue for the objective (not pursuing one guy with 15 man) leave scouts on strategic locations to monitor enemy zerg movements, have an eye on the map following which sentry points are lost, which dolyaks are lost, which camps changed hands.

This is how we like to play this game. I’m sad that not everyone enjoys it and some prefer just killing -> dying -> running -> killing -> dying -> running, but it’s their choice. I’m 100% sure that I never lost a tower to a ninja attack last 2 matches whenever I’m in lead, unless I want to loose it. So I’m 100% sure Towers are not weak, it’s the men defending them.

A quote from Eddard (Ned) Stark: “A wall is only as strong as the men who defend it”

@SiaoLang if this would be really grind based game, it wouldn’t take too long. However I’m already almost full exotic. Why would I do that?

Zombiesbum.3502:

You seem to have fergoten what an MMO is actauly about. Its not some FPS or RTS. It is a Role Playing Game

Are you a Role Player mate?

Edit: First of all MMO stands for Massive Multiplayer Online

It can be RPG, it can be FPS, it can be RTS. As long as it’s massive, online and multiplayer it’s an MMO.

Also RPG doesn’t mean “gear”. it stands for role play game. So you play your role, act like someone/something else.

On “computer gaming industry” strangely it turned to “Character Customization” and/or “Character Progression”. However items/pixels are not the only way to customize or progress your character. There are several areas GW-II presents progression and customization. I’m quite certain you haven’t finish all of them.

Back to your claim of “no longevity”… well… they said the same for Guild Wars I. Yet it’s still out there where many “item grind” games are already vanished.

Kyte.3986:

I’ve noticed a similar bug multiple times perhaps at some camps with the guild claimer being “invulnerable” but not determined but another buff.

However, instead of being completely invulnerable the guy will take anything from mostly 0 damage from attacks to up to like 5 or so. Also he’ll appear “immune” to conditions but they sometimes show up as affecting him for like a 1/10th of a second. This tends to happen when tons of people are surrounding and taking a camp.

I gather that he might supposed to be invulnerable til all the other NPCs die in the camp, but this continues to happen after all the NPCs are dead, and we generally have to either whittle him down taking a long period of time or wait until the invulnerability buff leaves randomly.

Anyone else witnessing this?

It’s not a bug. Camp Supervisors become “immune” for 5 minutes after camp changes hand. So either you have to bash him with condition damage, or wait for 5 minutes to kill him.

From what you guys describe DAOC seem to have a pretty inferior game play compared to GW2-WvW. Why getting stuck on that out-dated game? Move forward

MikeFerguson.8921:

If an orb is placed at a keep, that Lord will be determined (invulnerable) until the altar is destroyed. Destroying the altar should remove the determined state from the lord.

However we did discover a bug yesterday that could cause the lord to not drop his invulnerability in certain cases. Given how long it has been occurring for you, my guess is that keep was affected by the bug.

We have already fixed the cause of that particular issue on our development server and are testing it now. I’m hoping we’ll be able to get the fix pushed up to live next week, but we’ll need to make sure we are not causing additional issues first.

Excellent news Thx for response

Raffie.7865:

Every game steals from other games.

Basically all MMO’s stold from UO and EverQuest, who in turn stole from D&D.

WoW stolen everything from previous games, but people like to ignore that fact. No one ever came out and said WoW doesn’t bring anything new to Everquest because it was their first game

Shini.7542:

1. Was the orb still on the altar (just to be sure)
2. Was the orb former on the altar and got destroyed out of nowhere?

I saw this bug happening a while ago as well, after a server update (=restart) it was possible to capture again. I guess it has to do with those strange lightning bolts caused by quaggan or whatever that even seem to be able to destroy the altar.

I’ve seen it happened more than once and in all occasions Orb was on another keep. Though I don’t know by what means Orb is retrieved from the bugged keep, however I think that permanent invulnerability problem is Orb related.

Somehow even the orb already stolen, Keep Lords stays invulnerable.

Btw didn’t know Quaggan lightnings can destroy altars. If that’s the case it should be also a not intended game design I suppose

/signed. WvW should be for the ones fighting for it.

Slamz.5376:

I think the bottom line is you like sneak attacks and think a group should be able to ninja a tower without resistance if they’re quick enough.

You got me right there.

One man should be able to capture an undefended sentry point

A group of 3-5 well coordinated people should be able to capture an undefended supply camp

A group of 5-10 well coordinated people should be able to capture an undefended Tower

A group of 15-20 well coordinated people should be able to capture an undefended Keep.

There are different objectives for different group sizes on WvW map. For example for a 10 man group, if it takes 20 minutes to capture a tower, they can never do that as they will get caught by the other servers zerg eventually. So with such a game design 10 man groups loose their usefulness.

Such a design decision turns WvW to a “Zerg Or Nothing” game, as there will be little left to do for below 50 man groups.

So competitive guilds like mine that bring 10-40 man groups to WvW will require either create huge alliances to form up slightly coordinated Zergs, or most probably we just abandon WvW, look for something else that will promote our organizational success.

Competitive guilds that can bring 5-10 people to WvW will obviously abandon WvW, as their organization won’t mean anything.

So WvW becomes “chat coordinated” casual “clash of zergs” with some exception of Huge Alliances and Huge Guilds.

That’s not something I want to see.

I want WvW to present some valid objectives to well coordinated small groups which can “out-maneuver” zergs and do their jobs. And to counter them other servers use well coordinated small groups. And these objectives are Towers.

From what I know Towers never meant to be hard to take. It’s keeps and castles that you hold your line. Towers are medium scale objectives which small-medium scales group defend/capture. If all your server wants to stick with 70 man zerg attacking the next keep, of course they will loose their towers. It’s how it should be.

If WvW becomes “zerg or nothing” or in other words completely casual “lets smash our heads to each other’s until one is broken”, it’s not what I want. I’m pretty certain it’s not what competitive guilds want also.

You might be representing the player base which enters WvW casually, use chat to find out what’s going on, follow the zerg or commander, and bash your head to gate until either your head or gate breaks, and run back only after someone shouts “WE’RE LOOSING DREADFALL BAY WE NEED HELLPPPP!!!!” like for 6-7 times, I understand why you want an easier game which will hold your hand, teleport you to where fight is, and never request you do something “boring” until you get bored of killing/dying and running from respad.

However I’m representing another part of this community, which use voice communication, divide forces to small groups that gather up for big objectives and separate for smaller ones, always send scouts first before moving, carefully planning an attack, avoid unnecessary skirmishes which keeps us from our objectives, kill quickly and effectively and continue for the objective (not pursuing one guy with 15 man) leave scouts on strategic locations to monitor enemy zerg movements, have an eye on the map following which sentry points are lost, which dolyaks are lost, which camps changed hands.

This is how we like to play this game. I’m sad that not everyone enjoys it and some prefer just killing -> dying -> running -> killing -> dying -> running, but it’s their choice. I’m 100% sure that I never lost a tower to a ninja attack last 2 matches whenever I’m in lead, unless I want to loose it. So I’m 100% sure Towers are not weak, it’s the men defending them.

A quote from Eddard (Ned) Stark: “A wall is only as strong as the men who defend it”

Eihder.8961:

2.Mercenary-Tired of being in a 6 hour que? que up as a merc and be tossed into a random wvw encounter on a free slot. Not including matches where your server is involved of course. This bulks up low pop servers with mercs and mercs can receive special rewards for their action while not waiting several hours to join wvw.

Brilliant idea. Solution to excessive queues and Night capping at the same time. Gold Award from me

Honor Badge drop rate should definitely increase so that PvP will be main source of Honor Badges not Jumping Puzzles.

Also Honor Badges should drop in our inventory not to ground so that we don’t need to collect bags in the middle of a bloody fight.

We have ballistas, who needs a machine gun? Plant 4 ballistas on a choke point and see 50 man zerg die in 50 seconds.

This is really annoying. I’ve seen it happen 3 times so far. I guess it’s something about after Orb reset, this buff still stays there.

If it’s a feature, it’s clearly not self-explanatory. If it’s a bug it should be fixed ASAP.

Hux.8739:

Ideally the enemy should not be able to take a keep that still has supply right? So that can’t really be a measure. Making upgraded keeps worth more makes them more attractive to attack doesn’t it? I think the situation is that people don’t realize how powerful reinforced doors and well placed siege weapons are. Its completely possible to defend a keep with 5 guys against an attacking force of 30 with enough supply and upgrades to the keep.

Completely agreed. People should learn how to play and then come here complaining it’s too hard to defend keeps.