Guild Wars 2

Namu.5712:

I just dont view nightcapping the same I guess. I also see it as unfair to night players if you change it, so that its not the same as other times of the day.

To be honest my concerns are not about fairness or ranking of my server. My server might never be top tier and I’m OK with that.

What scares me that soon a fair percentage of my guild’s WvW player base will realize their efforts don’t have significant effect on score and this will demotivate them. I’ll have harder time to organize them, to rally them for better tactics or group organizations/ compositions, overall they won’t have the motivation to get better. Eventually some will leave the game some will turn to tPvP.

I really don’t want that happen. The problem is in current scoring system the strongest (and perhaps only) valid tactic to win is alarm-clocking. And it leaves not much room for other improvements a guild can achieve to have an effect on score.

Cloud.7613:

Actually, by this you’re actually killing Sea of Sorrows and Isle of Janthir, which makes your opinion null and void as a way of helping the situation.

Sea of Sorrows and Isle of Janthir have a STRONG oceanic presence, and a medium NA presence. If by your rules, they’ve already lost. They would no longer remain on this server to WvWvW, they will have to spread out to other servers, we’ll no longer have a strong group to play with at that time and GW2 AND WvWvW is pointless for us. You will just make mid tier servers die and strong servers stronger.

I don’t understand this. If that is the case, whenever you face a strong NA server, that server will start to get less points on their peak time. Actually you still have more advantage here. As you have a above average population on your off-time where most NA servers don’t.

dtfauss.5729:

It’s not fair. We can’t win. Kick non peak folks off.

I’m 100% sure we have no one on that extreme. It’s an image other extremists willingly or unwillingly created.

There are no posts claiming we should kick non-peak folks off. We’re just trying to say scoring system gives more weight to off-time, and it needs a bit of balance.

MagnusLL.8473:

It just amazes me how all the recent attempts at mass pvp which I’ve witnessed (AoC Shrines of Bori, SWTOR Ilum, and now GW2 WvW) have all failed miserably for the exact same reason: none of the designers stopped to consider implementing a reward system taking into account actual pvp activity into it, resulting in the system rapidly devolving into something which had nothing to do with pvp (PvNodes for AoC, PvNoone with cap switching for Ilum, and now PvDoor for GW2).

I’ve been through AoC and SWTOR.

dude if this fails also I’m done with gaming seriously, or perhaps I’ll go back to EVE once more

Cal.1985:

No, no one should limit 40 random people as they paid the same money and playing the same game. With the difference they are not playing during prime time.

It’s not limiting 40 random people. They gain the same gold/karma and other benefits, even more as they have less resistance.

Score contribution per man will be the same. So they still contribute to score as much as their counterparts playing the game on a more crowded time. Perhaps even more as they will have easier time capturing the whole map.

Cal.1985:

The solution you are seeking for is to gain points per kills or something like that. WHICH will never happen as several issues arise:

1. Randoms will be called with so much kitten names.
2. Elitists guild will break any kind of server community due to the above.
3. If you die – all will point a finger at you and saying you gave em points. And name calling will start.

I like WvW as it has objectives. This brings more strategic variety. If it turns to Kill Based, it will be more about killing zerg/clashes. I don’t like that idea. I’m not looking for it.

What I want is to score to represent the amount of players contributed on it.

Pendragon.8735:

Temakura.1539:

The Oceanic folks are doing nothing wrong, they are in fact not “night-capping”, they are playing during their prime time.

This part is right. They are doing nothing wrong, and should not be insulted in various ways.

At the same, taking over an entire map with hardly any resistance should not be worth the same points, as it doing it vs full server caps, and when that means it takes many hours longer and is many times harder to achieve.

And this goes for anytime, regardless who or where the players are from. With a points scaling system, the Oceanic population servers would also benefit, as they claim a ‘dead zone’ during NA daytime. Then in this deadtime, while ‘they’ are severely outmanned, their opponents wold earn less points in return. Even steven.

Completely agreed. Sorry if any one of my posts offended Oceanic players, it was not my intention. I believe they have the same right to play. And they should fight in even grounds.

A system scaling score with current population is fair for all sides. If oceanics can bring full man on a map they will get full score. There is nothing unfair on that. And they will sleep better knowing NA population can not erase whatever they achieved on their primetime easily.

Namu.5712:

I see it as the same.

Primary complaint is…. at night we have hardly anyone on compared to xxx server that has 2x more people.

DT is 2x people vs the server being double teamed is it not?

Same concept in my eyes.

Your talking about changing a major part of WvWvW without accounting for the big picture.

I got your point however there are serious differences. Double-Teaming is something which all WvW participants can do. But “persistent night capping” is not, due to Real Life priorities.

Seriously I’m not talking fair play. I just want to state that, current scoring system alienating a serious amount of player base, causing motivation loss. They feel like whatever they can do (keeping real life into consideration) does not have effect on overall score. When a player comes to such a realization, you can’t expect him continue competition.

This might eventually end up with severe loss on WvW population. I might be wrong, but I don’t think so. WvW will loose a major part of it’s competitive player base, which can not wake up early in the morning 4-5 days per week.

Eventually I fear WvW population will reduce to “complete hard-core players” accumulated in 2-3 servers which can provide 7/24 with addition of casuals doing it just for fun.

Cal.1985:

Not directly – but they suggest to have lower points gain and other things like that? So why on earth you feel that for the period from 0 to10 GMT and the period from 10 to 18 GMT people should earn different points???? (hours are completly random and irrelivent)

Time is irrelevant just as you said. It’s the participation of population.

I think it sounds pretty valid for 200 man to be able to gain more points than 40 man independent of time. Am I wrong?

Namu.5712:

Still doesn’t account for a double team scenario during primetime hours which can severely cripple a server during prime point gain doesn kitten

You cant just change soemthing with out taking everything else into consideration.

Double teaming is not the subject of this topic.

If you’re unhappy of double-teaming start a new thread.
If you’re trying to disrupt the discussion here please don’t do that as it’s not helping at all.

It seems you see a strong correlation between double-teaming and subject of this topic. However I don’t share your opinion on that.

Namu.5712:

How do you suggest balance then? Because if you take away a way for a server to make up points for a server thats getting teamed up on, what chance will they have at winning? Because two equally good servers can lock a server thats just as good down and force a loss. Thats considered strategy however giving them a chance to fight back is considered unfair?
How on earth does that even make sense in your head.

Alarm Clocking or using different Time-zones is the most strong tactic to win WvW right now. What we’re hoping, those to get some balance, which will leave room for other organization/strategies

Namu.5712:

And its also why the fight is 24/7.

Imagine if wvw was only at certain times the server gained up on has no chance at winning if all server posses the same skill level/players.

Suck it up.

There are no posts suggesting making WvW for only certain times. We want to have a score system that takes amount of participants into account.

Cal.1985:

Really? 5 pages of complains. You demand to forbid people play WvW when they like and how they like because you are asleep/work/doing something else? Really??

None of the posts suggested forbid people play WvW when they like.

Namu.5712:

Of course it does, you complaining your outnumbered at night, well the same could be said when a server gets DT’d at primetime. Take them both out. You can’t have your cake and eat it too.

Or does it only matter when its your favor?

People these days…. actually just NA players really everyone else in the world isn’t as stuck up and stubborn.

I’m not complaining about getting outnumbered. I’m complaining 10 men can gain more points than 166 men pretty easily. And this de-motivates that 166 men and might cause they leave the competition. That might cause a heavy impact on WvW populations.

Devinchi.2756:

The real problem is that most of you complaining just give up when put in a tight spot, but you’ll never get out of that spot unless you do something about it. Oceanics do rack up more points during their time because of population differences. But it’s not because other timezones CAN’T play; it’s because they WON’T play. Not until primetime are enough people willing to even try to change the tide of battle. By then, it’s already too late.

Unfortunately we have lives just as Oceanics have. You’re asking something that most of us can not do every day

above mars.4586:

I’m not necessarily saying that those players that are active during the “night” are better than the other server; what I meant by quality is the strategy of attacking when the other server isn’t active.

Granted, it wasn’t really an intended strategy (at first) because it just happens from the differences of time zones, but now it is a strategy. Stay up until 3AM and rip the other server a new one.

I agree it’s a valid strategy. However it’s a too strong strategy right now. IMO it reduces the strategic variety game presents. It should be balanced to make this game more fun.

IMO Orbs should give more points not stats.

Namu.5712:

Well with your attitudes then double teaming shouldnt be allowed either because that means the server getting double teamed has to fight 2x more people. So scratch double teaming to, I mean if you guys want to sit here and rant and rave about how good your server does at primetime, then do it solo no double teaming allowed cuz its unfair to the server getting double teamed. Just like its unfair if your server doesn’t have as many as the other on at night.

Double teaming has no relation to the topic discussed here.

What you need is at most 4 players with +5 supply buff to create at most 2 arrow carts on right locations. You don’t need 15 for that.

lollie.5816:

Within latency limits, it’s global.

It’s not. HoD can never face VS on WvW.

buki.3108:

If you want to enjoy WvW – don’t try to win. Try to take control of the map, but have fun trying. If you try to win you will hate WvW with a passion.

If you want to win and actually play WvW then join the top EU server. The added lag is only about 10-20ms.

I think these are the “last options”. There are plenty of good suggestions on forums to help ANet so that we can have “competition” and “fun” at the same ship.

No one is arguing against it’s 7/24. However we’re hoping that effort of each man on each time zone will have the same effect on overall score.

So if there are 166 players there should be more effect on the score compared to 30 players.

If you bring 166 players on early morning, then win the game. You deserve it.

Scale score per tick with current online numbers on map. It will be a good start.

grifflyman.8102:

Yea. Let the NA servers play the EU servers….

kittening do it.

If it’s 7/24, it’s how it should be.

Anlyon.8375:

Why are people so freaking out about losing a day time dominance to a night crew?

Because we want to be able to say “We won and we won because we played great. It was us who created this victory”. That gives us the motivation to continue and try to better next time.

Currently it’s not possible on most matches. Whether we win or we loose it doesn’t matter.

Anlyon.8375:

How much fun do you really think the night crew had (PvE’ing keeps….woooo.)

I don’t think they are having much fun.

Anlyon.8375:

How much fun is it to FIGHT TOOTH AND NAIL for them back?

Fun at first day perhaps the second. Not fun at following days when we start to wait for re-match whether we win or we loose.

Anlyon.8375:

If a whole map is one colour, i look at that and say, look at all the opportunities.

I know what you mean. If I was playing casually I’d say that too. However when I see a whole map in one color I say “Where is all the gold I spent yesterday to upgrades?”. Or if whole map is ours “What are we gonna do now?”. If a whole map is one color, there is something really wrong.

Anlyon.8375:

Getting Zerged on a map? consider going to a different map.

to get zerged there also? Or do you mean to go to a PvE map?

@Malarky

I agree on that. If a server is so well organized to bring full players at 7/24 they have the right to win.

What I don’t like is 30-40 players on night time can actually bring more points than 166 players on daytime. That demotivates 166 players on day time even they win or loose.

above mars.4586:

Quality > quantity.

10 Stealth bombers or 50 Gunbuses?

So you mean people living on less populated time-zones have more quality compared to people living on more populated time-zones?

Malarky.9546:

Attention Citizens of Tyria: The enemy commander has gone to bed <daughter’s soccer game in the morning> WvW servers will shut down in 30 minutes.

No one is asking for shutting down the servers. Please don’t troll.

Spryt.8012:

Why are people so obsessed with winning? So what if a server caps everything during night and wins the overall match? They get absolutely nothing for it except long queue times.

People say it’s not war it’s meant to be fun. Well ask yourself what is fun? Being on a high pop server with long queue times and when you finally get in you see your server already owns everything and there is nothing to do but “win” the match. Or be on a server with shorter queue times where there is always something to fight for but loose.

I don’t care about winning the match. So what? I would much rather be able to jump in to WvW with minimal queue times. Have fun taking forts and killing people while I can. Log off and loose then sit in a queue for hours but be able to boast that I was in the winning servers queue.

If you don’t care about it please ignore this thread, and leave it to who care for it. After all if scoring system changes it will not effect you as you don’t care.

Kyus.3812:

Ok I’m going to start rejoining this ridiculous debate and post virus that is “night capping”

First off, Night capping is not a problem. People should be allowed to play on an equal footing 24 hours a day, if you bring more people you should win. if you bring more people over a longer period of time statistically you should win.

What is the current problem is that the nighttime capturing is now the main way to win, because the massive ammount of scores that can be made using the current scoring system at night far outweigh winning with the most objectives during prime time.

We are in the situation where. 100 vs 10 vs 10 is where you win the game not 150 vs 150 vs 150. what happens during the time of day where servers are maxed out in WvW population is now irrelevant to the entire matchup.

The scoring system is the issue not night capping. People with irregular sleep/work patterns, day time gamers, students, people in different time zones should not be punished because of a bad scoring system.

Completely agreed. Scoring system should take “how many players online on map” to account.

I’m a member of a EU guild with 100+ members. We’re pretty well organized and bring regular 10-50 man groups to WvW and generally change the tides of the map when we do. I was thinking to move to an NA server like SBI to even the odds against HoD. And in theory it sound great.

However in practice our management and member-base don’t want it, and it’s not about influence or upgrades. We can re-gain all the upgrades in a fairly short time. Problems are:

1. They don’t want to play on cross-Atlantic latency in such a game where latency matters. Especially on sPvP and WvW
2. They don’t want to be online on a under-populated time for PvE and sPvP
3. As that server is marked as NA, they have worries about or long term community size. As it will be really harder to find new EU players on NA servers to fill places of players getting bored of game.
4. No one is certain of future of WvW with this trend. It might be we’re gonna be the only ones on WvW in 3 months at late night times, and we’ll be forced to transfer back to an EU server.

To be honest, making a region based infrastructure with servers and WvW rankings divided to regions, and expecting to be a 7/24 game is a lost cause.

Also we don’t want to fix the solution for ANet as we’re paying customers not developers.

On the other-hand a solution is fairly easy. Just multiply score for each tick with overall population of the map, so that at each time of day one man’s effect on score will be same. It will not fix everything however it will bring some motivation to continue competition.

I think this is a good point. I’d be very happy if I could zoom out at least twice more.

I don’t recall any posts suggesting pausing the war overnight

lollie.5816:

Thanks for the reply. It isn’t very nice hearing a few people constantly trying to make our only playing time worthless. Hopefully these people will stop harassing the Oceanic community after hearing your response.

Currently your play time worth 5 times our play time. We were just trying to make it even.

tarnin.1690:

You do realize that the what the letter mean does not constitute what it is actually billed as though correct? Perception means everything. when you think of an MMO you think of progression. If you don’t, you are flat out lying and you know it.

You’re talking about MMO-RPGs. There are other types of MMOs which are not RPGs.

like MMO-RTS, MMO-FPS or MMO-Browser.

You’re using terminology wrong. I understand your perception argument but it’s your perception, as you only played MMO-RPGs which have item/stat grind it seems.

There have been other MMO-RPG games around which were not heavy on item/stat grind like Darkfall or Mortal Online.

@ Keldrath.4735

Great for you to give us light on this rocket science issue. However as you might guess we already know how GW-2 system works.

What we’re questioning is if they are intended to make a 7/24 game, why did they made such a game play, with 2 data centers for specific regions, with language servers, with game play which can severely affected by latency.

If they wanted to follow the path of ordinary MMOs with 2 regions, with language servers, with latency oriented game play, how they hoped to bring a 7/24.

There is EVE out there which is a proper 7/24 game, with no regions, no language servers, no latency oriented game play.

Either you plan and deliver a game which can be 7/24 or just shut up and don’t claim it to be meant for 7/24. If ANet hoped WvW to be 7/24 with latency issues, regions, and language servers all I can say that they have no idea about 7/24 online gaming.

tarnin.1690:

This IS a thread comparing this to DAoC though. That was the point of it. Also, with it using forced side v side pvp you can’t help but compare it. They were the first to do it.

At this rate, this is not an MMO but a fantasy RPG/FPS kinda hybrid thingy. which is ok I guess but it was billed as an MMO. Also, why is it everyone thinks anyone who wants progression wants the “HAHA im RR1000 you insta die!”. We are only asking for progression, not insta wins. They were annoying in DAoC, and they would be annoying here.

It’s MMO.

It’s Massive
It’s Multi-player
It’s Online

It’s a Massive Multi-player Online Game a.k.a MMO

Exeon.4358:

However i do wonder, if Anet says that nightcapping is a game mechanic, why don’t we ever have US vs EU then?

That’s why I ask my self all the time. If game is 24/7 there should be no regions.

One thing some people just don’t want to understand is GW2-WvW is not war, it’s a game

War: You have to fight. If you loose, you might loose your life, you might loose your home, your family. If you loose there might be no where to go back, no where to start over again. So you fight day, you fight night. You fight even if you don’t sleep for 5 days as you have no other choice.

Game: If it starts to give no more fun, you switch to the next one, as there are always other games in which you can start over and forget your disappointments of the previous.

WvW is still fun for me, who knows what future can bring

You can teleport 10 golems to keep doors,
You can have your 40 man team ninja back a keep without need of breaching walls You can bring 30 man up on the jumping puzzle by your self
You can pull 5 guys from a keeps wall at the same time,
You can send your clones beyond any structure to create headaches.

what’s boring with mesmer?

If you’re asking when a new match begins: 00:00 GMT Friday → Saturday

Actually it’s not about “giving up” on just one side. Even the winning side start to have less players on WvW, except players coming to winning side with free transfers.

In this match we (Underworld) had many new players from Ring of Fire and Whiteside Ridge. Most probably in next match we’ll loose those guys to a server with more (or better spread) WvW population.

Buy your exotic armor set with Karma which is a lot easy to obtain on WvW compared to Badges. Make your weapons on mystic forge if you have free skill points.

That’s my advice.

Instead of 1 week matches, give us 2 matches per week. 1 at weekend, 1 at weekdays. So that we can fight 24 hours as we wish to on weekend matches at least

I now start to think more than 4 days is too much. From the scores posted on forums it seems only 1 matched continued to be competitive on later days of the week. Problem is that when score became obvious less players start to participate on matches on both winning or loosing sides.

So if we can have 2 matches per week, I strongly believe there will be more participation on WvW and more competition. Especially on Weekend matches.

Namu.5712:

Play the game have fun, if your so concerned with a score move servers shrug dont know what else to say.

Well definitely WvW is hell amount of fun and yes your advice is correct. Me and my guildies will participate on WvW as a fun event.

I think we got our answer from ANet. It might be a good time to stop whining about “night capping”.

WvW is fun even as being casual. If you’re mostly playing on primetime best thing is just to ignore the scoreboard and focus on pew pew, as your participation to overall score is minor.

If you want to play competitive still, perhaps the best thing you can do is moving to a cross-Atlantic region and join one of the competitive servers to even their odds against their enemies with stronger night crew.

I have nothing against Oceanics. It just didn’t feel right where 50 man playing on a different timezone effecting score a lot more than 500 man playing on a different time zone. However if that’s how it will be, we should adjust our gaming style, or perhaps even better not to take WvW “that serious”.

I’m turning off “night capping” issue. And will tell my guild mates to chill-down and play WvW only for the fun it is.

I hope it’s correct

If two servers can’t shut these guys, they have the bragging rights.

Do not try to counter EB Jumping Puzzle campers. It only feeds them.

The best strategy to counter siege weapons camps on EB jumping puzzle is to create another camp just before it. If they are camping Arena, you make a camp at dark room. If they are camping dark room, you make a camp at dark room entrance.

Warn your server mates going up and have them stay with you. Kill the others. Campers on the top will get bored after an hour of no-one passing by. Continue the camp until someone else forms another camp before you

Eihder.8961:

I think matches should run 48 hours for at least a week just so that they can obtain data and place servers where they belong. After that it would be fine to make them week or two week long, things would be more even.

I think the ranking system taking “scores” too serious. That’s why servers going up and down too fast and face opponents which are not on their weight.

There are some servers which we could keep up competition for 1 week. However either we don’t face them or when we face we have a 3rd server facerolling both of us.

Perhaps it should be a simpler system that doesn’t take score to account, moving winner 1 up and looser 1 down. Of course it will take more time to find proper places for servers, but at least they won’t jump up/down too fast.