Cast times for grenade and bombs was different pre-patch. I haven’t tested post patch cast times yet.
I thought mortar was 1.45x rifle damage pre-patch?
Don’t have access to the game at the moment so I can’t test.
Your numbers don’t look accurate. Where did you get those?
Grenade 1-4 exploding on collision with enemies wasn’t in the patch notes, but is fixed.
Backpack Regen doesn’t seem to reliably work with mortar kit.
I haven’t been able to reproduce this one. Not sure how I managed it the first time.
(edited by Knox.8962)
Join the party here:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/bugs/Engy-bugs-23-6-15/first
Join the party here.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/bugs/Engy-bugs-23-6-15/first
Incendiary Ammo seems to be procing 2 stacks of burn over 3 attacks, it should be 2 each attack if im reading the tooltip right.
Yup, I read that as Incendiary Powder earlier. You are correct. It is only proccing 1 burn per attack.
-Incendiary ammo (flamethrower toolbelt) only gives 1 stack of burning per application instead of the 2 stacks listed on the tooltip
I’m not able to reproduce this one. I consistently proc 2 burns on a target.
It secretly migrated to the grenade trait….
- Grenadier turns Grenade Barrage into the old Grenadier Barrage, including the old cooldown and 1500 range.
It looks like the tool tip is wrong and they are actually going 1200… which is still wrong. XD
Regardless, that would point to the base for the old skill as you’ve already.
It is definitely shooting the same distance as my mortar skills. 1500 seems to be correct in the mists at least.
- Grenade skills 1-4 when traited with Grenadier will explode when passing through a target and again when hitting the ground for many potential explosions per grenade toss (This looks to be working like the old coated bullets for pistol)
- Mortar Kit does not trigger the cooldown for the Kit Refinement portion of the Streamlined Kits so it is possible to spawn endless gunk as long as Streamlined Kits is not on cooldown
- Mortar Shot is triggering Steel Packed Powder but is not triggering Shrapnel
- Neither Healing Mist (EG toolbelt) nor Elixir Shell from Mortar benefit from the duration bonus of HGH, though they both provide might stacks.
- Mortar shells must touch a target to trigger a combo effect; hitting the enemy with the actual AoE will not work.
- Grenadier turns Grenade Barrage into the old Grenadier Barrage, including the old cooldown and 1500 range
- Automated Response does not reset the cooldown on Medkit skills or the Bandage Self skill.
- Bomb skills show a 180 tooltip radius. Visuals for the bombs display 240 radius, but the damage and effects appear to only have the listed tooltip radius. Glue bomb display, effect and tooltip are matching at 240 radius.
- Mortar Shot doesn’t benefit from Shaped Charge
- Evasive Powder Keg seems to be sharing the 10s cooldown with Thermobaric Detonation. Even when untraited, there is only a bomb every 10s.
- Orbital Strike’s initial impact is unblockable
- Mortar Shot projectiles must actually pass through a target for the finisher to activate. (not sure if this is intentional or not)
- Jump Shot is not benefiting from any of the explosion traits (not sure if this is a bug or not since the patch notes don’t mention it)
- Fragmentation shot is not benefiting from any of the explosion traits (not sure if this is a bug or not since the patch notes don’t mention it)
- Incendiary Ammo is only applying 1 stack of burning per attack instead of the 2 stacks that are indicated in the patch notes (and the tooltip)
(edited by Knox.8962)
I’ve come across a few fairly major bugs in my testing this evening.
- Grenade skills 1-4 when traited with Grenadier will explode when passing through a target and again when hitting the ground for a total of 6 possible explosions per grenade toss
- Mortar Kit does not trigger the cooldown for the Kit Refinement portion of the Streamlined Kits so it is possible to spawn endless gunk as long as Streamlined Kits is not on cooldown
- Mortar Shot is triggering Steel Packed Powder but is not triggering Shrapnel
- Neither Healing Mist (EG toolbelt) and Elixir Shell from Mortar benefit from the duration bonus of HGH, though they both provide might stacks.
- Mortar shells must touch a target to trigger a combo effect; hitting the enemy with the actual AoE will not work.
- Grenadier turns Grenade Barrage into the old Grenadier Barrage, including the old cooldown and 1500 range
- Automated Response does not reset the cooldown on Medkit skills or the Bandage Self skill.
Scratch this thread. Post them in the other thread instead.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/bugs/Engy-bugs-23-6-15/
(edited by Knox.8962)
The crux of the issue with the line is that most of the traits are really situational or balanced around grenades.
Shrapnel is an absurdly strong trait if you’re using grenades. It is nearly 100% cripple uptime and several bleed stacks. If you try to use it with mortar, bombs, pistol or rifle, it is a pretty weak trait. It isn’t completely awful, but you’re basically getting 1/3 of the chance to proc it that grenades provides. Steel packed powder has the same issue. It is pretty strong for grenades and kinda ho hum for the other weapons/kits.
The cooldown on Thermobaric makes it significantly less useful. It works well enough in a build using Soothing Detonation, but blasting specific fields you want with the powder kegs is less than reliable.
The mortar kit trait is handy if you’re running something like zerg support, but it is again situational. You’re getting really long fields, which is certainly worth something, but isn’t really a must have pick for a lot of builds.
Overall, I’d say the line looks really good if you’re focused on the grenade kit, but the options for non-grenade use are pretty niche.
snip
Hmm, your revised Inventions trait structure still leaves the possibility of running 2-3 turrets (Healing Turret, Rifle Turret, X) and coupling that to Heal-SPLOSION. This would leave a healy bunker build to look like:
- Invigorating Speed/Reinforced Shield. ROBO LEGS. Fortified Turrets + Metal Plating
- Blast on Heal. Heal-SPLOSION. HGH+Fast Acting Elixirs for use with Elixir S; or the Cascade % incoming heal to allies.
- Option of running 409 in Tools to eke out a bit more cleanse, or for more endurance regen through Adrenal Implant. Explosives for the EPK Blast Finisher would also work.
A build like this essentially treats Turrets like short term Blast Finishers for excellent spike healing and projectile mitigation (just blow them up after 3 seconds).
This is not to say that a sustain bunker shouldn’t work; just to emphasise that you don’t really have many gains or opportunity costs either by shuffling things between Inventions and Alchemy. After all, people who are bunkering are probably going to take them both anyway. The theme may or may not matter; but if the builds are the same, then you haven’t really accomplished much. As a result, the only significant change here is moving ROBO LEGS down from Firearms to Inventions.
There is significantly less group support in the build you have here than the 409 + HGH monstrosity that I posted before. You’d be able to remove a silly number of AoE conditions and stack a lot of might on your party as well, not to mention the even higher levels of condi removal and might you’d have on yourself.
Ultimately, I think the elixir traits provide such a high level of support that they need to be chosen against some of the other group support skills. I don’t think it is healthy for both options to be available at the same time.
An idea that I think would be a great Elixir Gun trait is something like this:
Reduce Cooldowns on Elixir Gun skills by 20%, All elixir traits now also work on Elixir F, Fumigate, and Super Elixir (impact only) the same way they do for thrown elixirs.
5 of the 9 Major traits in Inventions are bunker-centric. 5 of 9 Alchemy traits are as well. Not counting minors, both lines have 3 group support traits.
The minor traits tell a story that is the opposite of the skill types associated with the two lines. Elixirs are group support not unlike shouts when they are thrown, while turrets are stationary area denial and self defense.
Additionally, having access to strong support and strong bunker traits spread across the two lines allows a bit too much access to pick and choose those types of skills.
Warriors have to choose between shout heals and might stacking. Guardians don’t get Monk’s Focus and AH and they can’t get healing symbols and Pure of Voice.
By spreading these traits out across multiple trees, you open the potential for a 00666 engy with Adrenal implant, 409, Protection Injection, Backpack Regen, HGH, Blasty heals, healing Blasts, and Cascading heals. If he slotted 4 elixirs, the level of group support he’d crank out is unreal.
In really general terms, I don’t have major complaints about the Explosives or Firearms lines. The majority of my concerns are tied to Inventions, Alchemy and Tools. I think that the traits in these lines need to be evaluated to see if they fit in with the concept of the line they are in. I think many of the trait ideas are good, but misplaced.
Inventions – This line is clearly aimed to be the turret line, and many of the traits earmarked here have the potential to be fun and interesting. Unfortunately, other than turrets, I don’t think there is a clear identity for what this line does. While the concepts for these traits are intriguing, I don’t see a clear theme for this line other than “things that keep people alive”.
If you look at the stuff that certainly belongs in the line, I think you have a strong case for making this whole line revolve around the concept of “Bunker Down”. This tree could be a very compelling tree for the general idea of “I’m going to plant my feet in this spot and you cannot move me”. Turrets play into this very well, and so does the trait Bunker Down, but the bulk of the other traits in the line are targeted at supporting allies, which doesn’t seem to fit the idea as well.
Traits that I feel would be appropriate in this line: Protection Injection, Invigorating Speed, Reinforced Shield, Backpack Regenerator, Experimental Turrets, ROBO LEGS, Bunker Down, Automated Response, Fortified Turrets + Metal Plating
Alchemy – This line is obviously targeted at elixirs and the elixir gun, which ostensibly makes it the tree you use to support your allies. However, much like the inventions line, this tree doesn’t seem to have a clearly defined purpose. The majority of the traits outside of the elixir traits are targeted at self sustain and protection, while the elixirs are by far the biggest tool that engineers have to support others.
I think that this tree needs to be tailored around group support and work with elixirs and other AoE healing/cleansing traits to be the tree you go into if you want to help your allies. There are several good traits outlined in the Inventions line that will allow an engineer to fill that role, but I think the distribution across the two lines needs to be looked at.
I would pull Cleansing formula 409 back into the Alchemy tree and make it compete with HGH (Think shout heals vs. Phalanx Strength for warriors). 409 is not currently a thrilling GM trait, but is probably too strong to stay in the master tier. It may be good enough if you combine 409 with Fast Acting elixirs.
Traits that I think belong in this line: Blast On Heal Skill, Elixir Gun Trait, Heal-Splosion, Med Kit Trait, Self Regulating Defenses, HGH + Fast Acting Elixirs, Incoming heals heal allies for a %, Cleansing Formula 409 + Fast Acting Elixirs
Tools – This line is tied to gadgets, but the rest of the tree is essentially open to all kinds of fun stuff. I’d say that this tree has the most potential for crazy, random and fun ideas of any trait line in the game. Unfortunately, there is virtually no identity to the line. It is basically Speedy Kits and Static discharge. Cleansing formula 409 feels out of place here and half of the traits are placeholders.
This is a great place to take things that don’t exactly fit in the other lines and make them fun and exciting. There is a great opportunity to make Kit Refinement into something people get excited about as a GM trait because the engineering community really wants that to be a strong choice again. It could easily be one of the most fun GM traits for the class.
Knox I always read youf posts back on guru days, so wierd seeing you looking for advice :-D
Look here:
http://metabattle.com/wiki/MetaBattle_Wiki
I’m pretty sure that is a different Knox. I used to post on guru pretty regularly.
Shrapnel is really only useful for grenades, and even for grenades, it is basically only useful when you get in the 15+ seconds on target range, which doesn’t happen very often, or mass-AoE situations.
Mork’s post above does a pretty good job of showing how the traits are tied so specifically to a certain skill combinations that most of the choices are virtually made for you.
Ok I had some time to talk through some of the engineer discussion. Overall Engineer is in a difficult place because they have a ton of good adept traits, not a lot of good master traits, and again a good # of grandmasters so you end up spreading points fairly diversly to get all the good adept traits but lose out on a lot of power by failing to get as many grandmaster traits. Here is what I see a lot of talk about:
Incendiary Powder
Moving this was just something that was a long time coming. It was simply forcing almost every engineer into 10 points in Explosives which was really hurting build diversity. We have tried to counter this by improving other triats that might now be reachable by dropping those 10 points. For example Modified Ammunition, Elixir Infuxed Bombs, and Armor Mods. Now all three of these lines, some more than others, have a strong reason to invest 30 points to match the strong grandmasters already in the other lines.Grenadier, Autodefense Bomb Dispenser, HGH, and Automated Response.
People aren’t using IP to the exclusion of other traits because the other traits aren’t good enough. The uses for the GM traits are very specific, and even though they may be appropriately balanced, they tend to force you to go all in on a specific thing.
It is very hard to make a good build using Elixir Infused bombs and grenadier because both of those traits push you to sit in one kit to the exclusion of everything else.
HGH is similar in that it probably isn’t worth the investment unless you have multiple elixirs, which prevents you from taking advantage of a ton of other skills and traits.
The change to Modified Ammunition is a big help, but I suspect that it is really only going to make grenade builds even more dominant thanks to the plethora of conditions you can produce with p/p nades (blind, bleeding, poison, chill, confusion, cripple, immobilize, vulnerability, burning, and the poison field provides access to weakness as well).
Balancing the engineer is difficult because of the class design. The fact that an engineer can have as few as 1 weapon set, and potentially as many as 4 makes balancing the class a very tricky balancing act.
It seems like the design intent for the kits and weapons was to make them pretty mediocre out of the box, but allow you to spec them into something decent. What this has led to is traits like Grenadier or Juggernaut, which are nearly mandatory to make the kits function at any kind of reasonable level.
I think the overall tilt needs to be to make the traits somewhat more broadly applicable, but allow them to be more build defining than they are today.
A few examples of this just starting with the explosives line:
Grenadier – This trait is ridiculously overpowered that the kit is virtually never used without it. It is essentially “Do 50% more damage and have 25% more range” which would be completely absurd if it was on a weapon specific trait for any other class. A less grenade specific iteration would be something like “Explosives Master – Grenades and bombs cast, fly, and detonate 20% faster.” This would allow you to ramp up the damage on the stock grenade kit to make it a viable utility skill without 30 points in the tree, and allow bomb and grenade damage and quality of life to increase when fully invested.
Shrapnel – This is an extremely powerful trait for grenade engineers for long sustained damage fights, or massive AoE fighting at range. It is largely awful for bombs and mines, and useless for everything else. If this trait was tweaked to be “I want to do condition damage” by balancing the proc chance for bombs vs. grenades, it would be a good pickup for either kit in a condition build.
Forceful Explosives – Increased bomb radius used to be nearly mandatory to make bombs work. With the increased radius in the last patch, this is more of a nice to have, but it makes a very huge difference against moving targets. Again, this is totally useless for anything other than bombs today. If this trait also provided the increased range on the grenades, you wouldn’t have so much of the grenade kit’s power tied up in a single trait, and you’d also force grenadiers to choose between increased range, utility (cooldown reduction), or damage.
Explosive Power – This is currently really strong for the Bomb Auto Attack, and Shrapnel Grenade. It is pretty weak for the rest of both kits due to the way the damage is spread out across them. Grenade Auto is incredibly weak (presumably because the aforementioned “Do 50% more damage” trait), which makes it a lackluster choice for grenades. I don’t think the trait itself is all that bad, but the skills that can take advantage of it, are limited. This could easily be made into “I want to do direct damage with explosive kits” as a general trait, but the power of the grenade kit would probably need to be spread out across the abilities more evenly.
The other problem with balancing the class is that in order to compete with kits, utility skills need to be pretty strong. What ends up happening is that you’ve got several strong traits for elixirs for example, that make elixirs so good that you’re pretty much going to pick up 3-4 elixirs in your skill choices.
You’ll see the same basic effect on engineers weapons as well. They have a reasonable level of utility packed into them, but they are pretty weak choices for damage dealing. The pistol doesn’t do enough direct damage for the Modified Ammunition to carry it, and it doesn’t have enough condition damage to be competitive without 15-20 stacks of might propping it up.
Other people have brought up the incredibly large required investment for using a flamethrower effectively already in this thread, so I won’t go over it again, but it is pretty similar in nature. The same goes for turrets, which have also been discussed.
The comment earlier in the thread about Incendiary Powder being a build neutral trait is pretty much why it was taken in tons of builds. Most of the traits are so specific, or so niche oriented that they only work for a few setups. The few traits that were universally beneficial to builds were taken in almost all of them. (Incendiary Powder, Precise Sights/Infused Precision, Invigorating Speed, Speedy Kits)
I can elaborate more on the general ideas that would probably help to clarify, but It’ll have to wait for tomorrow.
TLDR: Weapons, Kits, and Utility skills are generally speaking too weak out of the box to be really useful, and the trait investment required for them is too specific to allow any real build diversity.
Bombs are still attacking 20% slower on land than they do under water. (0.75s vs. 0.9s)
No mention of kits in the patch notes. Sure would like to hear an answer to this.
I’m assuming that if it takes roughly 2 weeks to make a weapon, we’ll be waiting until the 17th at least.
With the Dhuumfire patch Necros and Warriors, with Rangers and Engineers before them, brought Burning into the forefront as a prime source of DPS after condi-burst. Necro’s Bleed stacks could, in theory, out-dps Burning, if stacks were high enough. However, as the graph shows, as the amount of Condition damage scales up, Burning still outscales Bleeding up to the point of 13 Stacks of Bleeding (!!!) at 1100+ Condition Damage. I think at this point it should be obvious that obtaining and maintaining 13 stacks of Bleeding is unrealistic.
Part of the reason is the ludicrous base damage at level 80. Another is although Burning scales better with Duration than Condition Damage at low levels, investment into Condition Damage still yields excessive benefit at high levels of Condition damage.
This section and your chart are basically all wrong.
At 1100 condition damage, burning ticks for 603. Bleeding will tick for 97. It only takes 6.2 stacks of bleeding before the bleeds are stronger than the burning. 13 stacks of bleeding will hit for more than double the damage per tick of burning.
You seem to be only including the base damage in each additional bleeding stack, and ignoring the scaling on all but the first.
On crit procs are critical to the balance of the game from a sheer numbers standpoint, but the implementation is a problem in many cases.
Crit procs are needed in order to push condition classes into other stats besides raw condition damage. If you removed all of the crit based procs from the game, you’ll see every single condition class running around in Condi/Tough/Vit gear (assuming it becomes available in PvP) because they already get very little damage from power and subsequently crits on that power based damage. The on crit procs push people into Rabid or Rampager gear sets to ensure that they actually get Incendiary Ammo or Dhuumfire procs, and other similar effects like Sharpshooter.
The problem is the way those procs are designed currently, and the burning damage design in general. Currently a 5.2 second burn roughly every 10 seconds equates to a 50% burning uptime on a single target. The issue with burning is that the packet size for burns is pretty large, so even a single tick of burning does a decent level of damage. This makes balancing burn procs very challenging. If you increase the cooldown, you’ll still have a 5 second chunk of burning to contend with whenever it procs, and in most cases for both engineers and necros, numerous cover conditions to prevent removal.
The issue with proccing such a powerful condition on crit is that it basically can’t be avoided. You can’t dodge/blind/block every single attack, so as soon as an attack crits you, you’ve basically got 5 seconds of burning to contend with as well. This is probably way to strong for a randomly procced effect to be delivered in a single hit. The problem from a balance standpoint is that if you reduce the duration of the burn, you have to also reduce the cooldown to make the trait still worthwhile. The net effect would basically be 2 seconds every 5 instead of 4 every 10. This creates a different problem because now you’ve just made the re-application of the effect much more common, and basically made removal nearly meaningless against it.
I think that in general, crit procs are good to drive additional condition damage scaling, but the implementation of them is very problematic especially for burning because of the forced packet size of the conditions. They work reasonably well for bleeding based procs, but the mechanics of removal and application make them problematic in that setup as well.
There are multiple ways you can clean up some of these types of things, but neutering burn damage is probably not a very good way to do it. It’s already pretty weak in PvE due to the way that it stacks, and reducing the damage it does will only make it worse (unless you decide to make it stack in intensity like bleeding).
I’ve proposed before a change to the way conditions work in the game that basically divorces the damage from the condition type, and allows the type of condition to basically act as a throttling mechanism for the damage. This would allow you to add some appropriately sized damage numbers to effects like these without being forced to work in 600-ish damage chunks. It would theoretically also allow you to create other ways to scale condition damage with other offensive stats (like “Add 10% of attack damage as bleeding on crit”) which would force people to invest in offensive stats if they want to do top level damage.
At the end of the day, you need something to force condition damage dealers to take other offensive stats, but the mechanics of the game make it difficult to make those effects balanced currently.
Base kit damage on weapon damage would only make rifles “mandatory” for power builds, as 15% base damage for a condition build can be overcome by the sigil.
I don’t think this is any worse than being compelled to go P/x for the extra sigil today.
Run a power build, use the power weapon seems straightforward enough.
You don’t see zerker Scepter/focus necros for the same reason.
In general terms, our weapons are pretty weak. You can prop up pistol damage with HGH, but when you get in a group setting where everyone has might stacks, the damage is pretty anemic.
Rifle is similar in that you can use SD to prop up burst damage, but you’ll leave the sustained damage in a pretty weak spot.
The weapons themselves really need to be brought up to make non-kit setups more workable.
I fully expected kit strength to be an oversight, which is why I posted this question in the first place.
Are you considering zerker nade or zerker bomb builds as power builds?
Both of those will do excellent damage already, although it is a mix of condition and direct damage.
I don’t see it as any different than the warrior choices really. You want direct damage, use Axe and GS; you want condition damage, use sword and longbow.
For the engineer, it would be rifle = direct, pistol = condition, and you’ll still be able to take advantage of the numerous kits for either setup thanks to the skill design they have.
I had assumed that you were referring to the traited grenades, as I didn’t realize that people actually used the untraited version.
In the current environment, if you are using a kit for most of your damage, you’re basically forced into p/p or p/s unless you want to give up a 5% boost to your main damage.
If you used weapon damage instead, you’ll let people choose between the weapons with some interesting tradeoffs.
15% extra damage vs. armor from a shield plus a sigil which reduces that gap.
Additionally, it is only 15% additional direct damage, and since all of our kits have a mix of both condition and direct damage, the real world applications would be a smaller gap.
Zerker bomb builds would probably be the only place that sees close to 15% damage increase, but most of those are already using rifle.
Kleenex can be kinda strong (relative to the mortar) if you let them dry…
I also think that it has the same range as grenade kit.
You forgot non-critting also.
On land, the bomb kit attacks 20% slower than it does underwater. Approximately 0.9s vs. 0.75s per cast.
I completely agree, but I suspect that there would be a non-trivial effort required to do that. It would also make weapon choices much more meaningful for engineers in general.
Are kit base damage numbers going to be increased with the addition of ascended weapons next week?
You can effectively aoe farm with permeating wrath. Outside of that, burn builds are pretty terrible.
The utility skill swap drives me crazy.
Bombs attack 20% faster underwater than on land.
@Seras:
Honestly half the problems that the FT and to a lesser extent GK has in WvW zerging would disappear overnight, if Retaliation actually reflected an absolute %damage taken as it states on the tooltip instead of providing a flat damage tick that scales off the Boon Holder’s Power and procs on hit.I have no idea why Retaliation was ever implemented in this capacity because it offers no deterrence against spike damage, and it invalidates the use of several multi-hit skills for no apparent reason, across all classes.
That is exactly what retaliation is for. Blind aegis and dodge already punish large single hit attacks.
Generally speaking, you are better off with pure rabid gear simply because might is easy to come by, which makes adding power fairly easy to do.
I disagree. Currently, a single scout at NW tower and NE camp can provide plenty of warning for any asset on the north half of the BL maps to get reinforced.
If you were unable to see a group sneaking past, you would basically have to dedicate a larger number of people to patrolling, or risk losing your towers/keeps.
Having all of your people running in 1-2 massive groups, and just responding to threats as needed becomes a more difficult proposition.
Imagine an environment where you could build 5 catapults on the hill West of NW tower that couldn’t be seen from the tower itself. The ability to scout and react quickly becomes a much more important mechanism.
Currently a group big enough to do that would be visible almost all the way from the NW supply camp.
I realize that adding additional maps is a fairly involved and “expensive” process, which limits the ability to give us multiple new maps.
I was thinking that a potentially cheaper to implement option would be to add different environmental effects to change the way the maps play, without having to add whole maps.
Thinking about how heavy fog or darkness would impact game play by making sneaking around in smaller groups scouting and guerrilla-type warfare with the ability to hit a larger group and then sneak off into the darkness etc.
I don’t know what the level of effort required to mess with weather etc, but I’m guessing that it is less than making new maps.
Thoughts?
Every test I’ve done (which is several) indicated that damage increases stack multiplicatively (1+x)(1+y)(1+z) etc.
Everything I’ve tested with protection and the signet indicates that they stack the same way (1-x)*(1-y) and so on.
If you have some proof of things working differently, feel free to share it, so we can all run around being invincible.
Edit: the damage formula you are using is not correct.
Copied straight from the wiki:
Direct damage
Base direct damage is given by the following equation:
Damage done = (weapon damage) * Power * (skill-specific coefficient) / (target’s Armor)
(edited by Knox.8962)
toughness: 2739 = -53.52% damage
total reduction: 96.52% damage
Fixing your math:
(1-0.5352)(1-0.33)(1-0.12) = 0.274
You’ll end up taking 27.4% of the original damage you would “normally” take, which is pretty impressive, but clearly not 100% damage reduction.
If you went with knight’s everything, slapped on a shield and traited for maximum toughness, you could get pretty close to 80% damage reduction.
So, in my test Acid Bomb can crit for a total of 10872 or 724.8DPS
Prybar Crit for 3.9K or 312DPS
Throw Wrench n SD crit for a total of 5600 or 350DPS
Thats 672DPS not including Confusion.
If Confusion ticks once over the cooldown it adds 63DPS which would bring it above that of Acid Bomb.Bomb Auto crits for 3K with this setup.
Pry Bar has a coefficient of 2.0, Throw Wrench is .75 and Acid Bomb has .75 also, not sure on SD. In my tests I had no Might, with a full 25 stack I think TK may come out ahead, especially if Confusion ticks more then once within the 6.5 second up time. But its too late for me to do the math on it tonight. IDK, whatcha think?
Blood~
Throw wrench will only hit harder than bomb1 if you get 2 hits out of it. I typically estimate PvE mob attack rate at 1 per 3 seconds, although that varies a lot from mob to mob.
The best way to evaluate it is to look at coefficient / cast time compared to the bomb AA. 1.25*1.1/0.9 for the bomb = 1.528/s
The Acid Bomb comes to 0.75*5/1 = 3.75/s
I don’t have cast time numbers handy for throw wrench, but assuming that it is 1s, you’ll need both hits AND SD for it to be better than just doing the AA.
Prybar is trickier. You get 2.0/s out of it, but you add 5 stacks of confusion on top of it. Fully buffed, you’ll be looking to make up a gap of 1.75 for it to be stronger than the Acid Bomb attack. That’s about 1.3 times the strength of the bomb Auto. In the example in the OP, you’ll have to come up with about 10k confusion damage to close the gap, which would require the mob to attack about 1.1 times a second, which would be highly unusual.
When you consider that acid bomb is also an AoE attack, it seems to be the obvious winner.
Bomb Auto Attack does more than throw wrench + SD last time I tested it. Prybar including confusion should hit for around 13k in the t-bearce test. Acid Bomb should be around 25k in those same conditions.
To put it another way, acid bomb hits for about 2/3 of a single bomb AA, but pulses 5 times.
That basically puts it at 3x the damage of a bomb per cast.
(edited by Knox.8962)
Elixir Gun 4 does an absolutely silly amount of damage (more than prybar) if you are using it on stationary targets.
It’s 5% additional crit damage. Your crits go from about 2.6x normal damage up to 2.65x normal damage.
2.65/2.6 = 1.019 = 1.9% increase.
All direct damage multipliers are multiplicatively scaling so 5% from a force sigil is exactly 5% more direct damage.
you will be close enough to 100% crit chance the entire time for just the extra +5% crit damage to = roughly a +5% increase to damage. If you are worried about losing the 10% bonus from not having full endurance I think it would be better to trade away 5 points from firearms to get the 5 points in tools for faster endurance regen.
5% additional crit damage in the type of setup you are talking about is worth about 2% damage, not 5%. The overall damage numbers come out to be nearly identical with either split assuming a 50% uptime on the max endurance. Anything higher than that favors the points in tools.