Guild Wars 2

Greyfeld.7104:

But this “solution” is very narrow-minded, because it assumes that dungeon rewards should be different from world rewards, and should be set apart specifically only for those who run the dungeons. The reality, however, is that gear progression should have multiple approaches, and the “path” you choose should be based on what you enjoy doing, not which armor set you want to end up with.

100% agreed. Why shouldn’t I be able to gain enough “game currency” to buy a dungeon set of armor by helping out in other areas of the game map? Granted, there should be some “challenging prerequisite” to being allowed to purchase the dungeon set, like proving my worth by completing all paths of the dungeon; but following me earning the right to purchase it, I shouldn’t have to continue to do any one of a very few list of options to actually obtain it.

@SirMoogie:

I am with you 100% with the open world PvE challenge. That’s why I had such high hopes for the dungeons, but was holistically disappointed the more I experienced them. Although DE’s are fun, they just aren’t challenging. You either have enough warm bodies around to complete the DE, or you ignore it.

@Derpinator:

I have advocated that exact point from day one. Dungeon currencies at it’s core promote repetitive behavior. I would LOVE to see a story line that would make a certain dungeon vendor available (which may very well include completing all of a dungeon’s story / explorable modes) and then allow kharma to be the currency of choice.

Regarding level 400 crafting: It was so wonderful that during the leveling experience, obtaining crafting materials just felt natural and was more of a by-product of enjoying the map; but you have to go out and actively farm for these level 400 mats in areas that are just far too tedious and expensive to do so. It’s like the entire gameplay experience changed the moment I hit 80 (although there are clear fun goals that haven’t changed, just the method to achieve them).

@Fozzik:

Talking to you is like talking to a brick wall.

The problem is that you are looking for the game to change at level 80. You are expecting ArenaNet to provide different, special content at level 80.

What could have possibly eluded you to believe that’s what I wanted?

Read: REWARD FOCUS

I’m sorry, yes crafting is “reward focused”, so is playing the game, killing a dragon, participating in DEs, etc etc. Everything in this game is rewarding, otherwise people wouldn’t play it. My only arguments are in attempting to find solutions to fix the issues that aren’t as rewarding as others.

So in fact, we aren’t even talking about you artificially limited yourself due to a lack of rewards…we’re talking about you artificially limiting yourself simply because the rewards would come a bit slower.

Once again, another invalid argument. I’m having fun. Plenty of it. I’m leveling a warrior, participating in sPvP with my mesmer, and when I need a break from GW2, I go play BL2.

My (and plenty of others) arguments are in how to find solutions to issues that YOU haven’t even experienced.

Wintyre Fraust.6534:

The whole game can become a grind, if that is how I choose to play it.

The key difference being that with the leveling experience you have options.

You can choose to sit in one spot and kill the same mob until you hit level 80 OR you can choose to experience the world of content available to you.

This is not the case with explorable mode dungeons. Your options become very restricted regarding what you can do if you have your eyes set on a goal (a cosmetic armor set).

Again, I don’t know how many times I can state this, but nobody that I know of whom have argued the topic of the level 80 PvE experience is asking for things to be simpler and take less time, just that they aren’t as repetitive and have the same rewarding experience as they had while leveling.

This was only one of my assessments on how the problem “could” be solved.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/What-the-LFG-system-should-be/first

@Fozzik and Wintyre:

I really don’t understand what makes you two the self-proclaimed authority on what GW2 should or should not be.

1. You haven’t even experienced the full game, so how can you argue against the folks looking to make aspects of the game (that you haven’t even experienced) better?

2. You’re no ArenaNet spokesperson, so you’ve got no clue as to the intentions the company intends to take.

3. You’re not writing any of ArenaNet’s checks. So seriously, what authority do you have in dictating what they should or should not do with they’re time and resources?

There are some very thought out logical arguments around the gameplay. Either provide a valid argument, or keep your OPINIONS to yourselves. Let us who want to make suggestions, make them and let ArenaNet (and their check writers) decide what they have the bandwidth and resources to do.

Fozzik.1742:

Lance Coolee.9480:

Once again, as has been explained several times, nobody is asking for infinite content. We are looking for stuff to do (which is actually very different). If you were level 80, you would understand a little better what some of these restrictive barriers are between the player and the “fun”.

I’ve posted quite a few topics (with logical suggestions) that seem to only incite flamewars with those white knights who just have nothing else to do aside from troll forums.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/What-the-LFG-system-should-be/first

Why would you be looking for things to do at level 80, when you had no problem seeing what there was to do at other levels? The things to do at level 80 are the same things there were to do at every other level. How many times must this be explained?

The problem is that you are looking for the game to change at level 80. You are expecting ArenaNet to provide different, special content at level 80. This is unecessary in their game design. The entire world is level 80 content, and works just the same way it has always worked during the leveling process.

The only way you would have nothing to do at level 80 is if you have completed the entire world 100% including doing all dynamic events and all dungeon routes, AND you refuse to repeat anything for any reason, including refusing to make alts and experience additional personal stories. So, in short, the only way to possibly complain there is nothing to do is if you:

-Ignore large amounts of content (due to the rewards not being maximized) -Artificially limit yourself to only certain content (again, due to a self-created need to constantly maximize rewards).
-Refuse to ever repeat anything.

It should be pretty clear that all three of the above are pretty unreasonable in terms of expectations for a game company.

Don’t assume you know what I want or am looking for.

I have completed the map 100%. I also didn’t want the gameplay to change at level 80. If you listened to some legitimate arguments, you’d actually find that it was in fact, that the gameplay HAD changed at level 80 that’s go so many people frustrated. The leveling experience was awesome, but then level 80 and map completion came by and all of a sudden the game has a completely different tone.

Also, the entire world IS NOT level 80 content, otherwise it would be dropping gear and crafting material needed at level 80. I can’t get enough rares to drop (for the globs and for my cloth mats) to craft my exotic armor set because there aren’t enough people at the Orr DEs (even though there’s more than enough level 70+ players), and because they just don’t drop elsewhere on the map (because items mostly scale up to the level of the zone ur in – with the exception of those chest dropping DEs). This alone already restricts me to only a few zones which are already incredibly difficult and “grindy” to navigate.

So once again, if you haven’t experienced the issues we’re arguing against, don’t claim to be an authority on the topic.

Fozzik.1742:

Lance Coolee.9480:

Again, you’re a clear victim of false assumptions. I have been playing the game content AND I THOROUGHLY ENJOY IT. The Shatterer, Tequatl, and Jormag still haven’t gotten old for me; however, that content (which is very cool the first couple of times) gets old real fast because it lacks complexity and difficulty.

Also, go find me someone who has a complete dungeon armor set and ask their opinion on the gameplay experience to obtain it. You can’t possibly sit here and advocate that it’s ok to grind, just because ANet says it’s ok. Nor can you justify it by arguing that “it’s optional, if you don’t like it don’t do it”. I have been following ANet and GW2 for almost 2 years and every step of the way, they held strong on their philosophy that they didn’t want any aspect of the game to feel like it was repetitive (optional or not). So yes, I am thoroughly dissapointed when I come in to find aspects of the game that clearly dictate a need grind (dungeon armor, kharma armor). I expected something better, not less difficult, but better.

Pay attention because I’ll say this again: WE WANT THE DIFFICULTY, WE DON’T WANT THE REPETITION.

Once again, as has been explained several times, it is impossible for any company to create infinite content for people who consume it so fast. No company can do that, and they never have. There is going to be repetition…. just like any other type of game. The question is whether you enjoy the game play enough that you want to do it again and again. If you don’t, they can’t possibly provide you with fresh content and rewards forever. It’s impossible. There has to be an end.

If you honestly have done 100% of the content in the game, and don’t enjoy repeating any of it… you’re done for now. Wait for an expansion and more content. That’s the only solution that makes any sense. There is nothing ArenaNet will be able to do that will satisfy you if you completed hundreds of hours of content in one month. Sorry, but adding some artificial treadmill isn’t really a solution to anything. If you got hundreds of hours of play that you admit was quite enjoyable…you got your $60 worth and then some. If you don’t want to repeat anything, don’t. Saying, “I don’t like playing, but I will if you give me all the loot really fast” is silly and self-defeating. After you have all the loot, what then?

Some people don’t like the dungeons, other people, like myself, really enjoy them and feel they are challenging and fun. Different strokes for different folks. I’m sure you’re aware that they are fixing bugs (which seems to be the root of what a lot of people are complaining about) and adjusting rewards. It’s possible that most of the things people are going ape over will be totally fixed in a few weeks, and all you’ll have to show for it is high blood pressure.

Once again, as has been explained several times, nobody is asking for infinite content. We are looking for stuff to do (which is actually very different). If you were level 80, you would understand a little better what some of these restrictive barriers are between the player and the “fun”.

I’ve posted quite a few topics (with logical suggestions) that seem to only incite flamewars with those white knights who just have nothing else to do aside from troll forums.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/What-the-LFG-system-should-be/first

Wintyre Fraust.6534:

Lance Coolee.9480:

Wintyre Fraust.6534:

So yes, I am thoroughly dissapointed when I come in to find aspects of the game that clearly dictate a need grind (dungeon armor, kharma armor). I expected something better, not less difficult, but better.

What do you need dungeon or kharma armor for?

Is this a legit question? If you don’t know what they’re used for, you really shouldn’t be arguing against anyone in this thread.

If you do know what they’re used for and are fishing for an argument, then I’ll stop you right there. You don’t “need” to do anything in this game, you can turn it off and walk away – no harm, no foul. Except some of us really had some positive expectations about GW2’s gameplay only to be presented with “ok well if you REAAALLLLY want it, we’re going to make you grind the hell out of it” – which was COMPLETELY contrary to what they led us to believe.

You said it’s a “need” grind. I asked a question because I don’t know the answer. What do you need karma or dungeon armor for?

I never said you “needed” karma or dungeon armor for anything, I did say you “needed” to grind if you wanted it; which again, feels very much like a shoehorned way of extending the gameplay experience, contrary to what ANet often preached as their philosophy.

Again, find me one person who actually has a dungeon or kharma exotic set and only then can you logically argue against those in this thread suggesting to improve the experience (not make it quicker, not make it less difficult) to obtain it.

AdelaisAer.4109:

Wintyre Fraust.6534:

AdelaisAer.4109:

THANK YOU. THIS RIGHT HERE IS WHAT I AM TRYING TO EXPLAIN TO THE OTHER GUY. But you know, who cares about loot? We should all just have fun!

EDIT: Apparently, if I put a lot of U’s in FUN, it censors it as kitten. Okay then…

He said that in his opinion, it should be level appropriate. I disagree. IMO, if the game design is not reward-centric, then:

1) Mobs shouldn’t always drop loot;
2) Mobs should only drop loot up to level-appropriate loot;
3) Mob loot tables should have an anti-farming code that decreases the loot table when farming is likely going on.
4) Boss mobs should have, in their loot table, the chance of getting better rated, level-appropriate gear, and the anti-farming code should apply to them as well.

That’s YOUR opinion, which seems to be VERY unpopular. Go browse the forums and you will see that many people (if not the majority) share the exact same opinion as me, which is the opposite of yours.

If you don’t want to be rewarded, that’s fine. By all means, go kill things for fun. But why should the rest of us suffer, huh?

Regardless if his opinion is unpopular or not shouldn’t have a bearing on a logical conversation.

What I do have issues with however is all of this ridiculous argument AGAINST the folks trying to make the game better for everyone with no valid reasoning or logic behind it.

I myself am in software development, and I cannot even begin to explain how many very popular products wouldn’t even exist had it not been for those hardcore early adopters who literally beat the crap out of a product to find out where it faulted or where it could be improved. It’s literally FREE QA.

I would like to have thought this community would attempt to help those of us who are working to make this game better (not just those complaining about it, but those of us who are offering thought out, logical solutions to what we perceive as problems). Rather instead, what we get is this ridiculous white knight nonsense of “there’s nothing wrong with the game, ur doing it wrong”.

Wintyre Fraust.6534:

So yes, I am thoroughly dissapointed when I come in to find aspects of the game that clearly dictate a need grind (dungeon armor, kharma armor). I expected something better, not less difficult, but better.

What do you need dungeon or kharma armor for?

Is this a legit question? If you don’t know what they’re used for, you really shouldn’t be arguing against anyone in this thread.

If you do know what they’re used for and are fishing for an argument, then I’ll stop you right there. You don’t “need” to do anything in this game, you can turn it off and walk away – no harm, no foul. Except some of us really had some positive expectations about GW2’s gameplay only to be presented with “ok well if you REAAALLLLY want it, we’re going to make you grind the hell out of it” – which was COMPLETELY contrary to what they led us to believe.

Fozzik.1742:

Lance Coolee.9480:

Fozzik.1742:

The only thing we’re talking about here is that a lot of players feel it’s a necessity to have everything in the game RIGHT NOW.

Incorrect. Listen to the arguments and don’t assume things.

We’re not arguing over the desire to make things easier in the game to obtain, but the manner in which they are obtained.

The game advocates a fun, enjoyable, “non-grindy” experience through the 1-80 gameplay, but then abruptly throws “now go do dungeon x 46 times” in your face. It’s ridiculous. I personally would like to see elaborate story chains (that may very well take as much time as the grind) to make these vendors available.

If you’re not 80, then you really can’t have any logical arguments over the gameplay at 80.

What you are missing is exactly what makes this game different from the games you think it should resemble, and exactly what makes the game fun-centric as opposed to reward-centric.

I will explain what you are missing, because clearly there are multiple people posting heavily on these forums who are completely blind to anything other than what they THINK should be true, rather than what actually IS.

At level 80, the game doesn’t “throw” anything in your face. Doing dungeons for tokens is an OPTION provided for players who enjoy doing dungeons, exactly like the options to do those same dungeons from level 30 on. Here’s the big thing you’re missing, though… at level 80, EVERYTHING you were doing before level 80 is still readily available for you to do. Your character scales to the content. You can play the entire world. Not just level 80 zones. Not just dungeons. The restrictions that you are claiming exist are created by you in your own mind, and are strictly the result of being completely reward-focused.

People see the entire world of content as not existing at all, simply because it does not provide the maximum possible rewards as fast as possible.

Once you realize this mistake, that all the content in the game is still available and playable at level 80, and can be just as fun as it was from 1-80 (when you aren’t totally focused on rewards), it makes the “you aren’t 80 so you don’t understand” argument completely moot. I don’t have to be 80 to know what the game is like at 80…because the game doesn’t change at 80!! It just continues to be the same wide variety of fun content in the same huge, immersive, content-rich world. The problem in this thread, and on these forums, is all the people who either think, or thought, that the game would change at level 80 into something else that they thought would be better, or that they personally enjoy more. I’m sorry that didn’t happen, but that doesn’t mean there’s anything wrong with the game. It’s just different than you expected.

Again, you’re a clear victim of false assumptions. I have been playing the game content AND I THOROUGHLY ENJOY IT. The Shatterer, Tequatl, and Jormag still haven’t gotten old for me; however, that content (which is very cool the first couple of times) gets old real fast because it lacks complexity and difficulty.

Also, go find me someone who has a complete dungeon armor set and ask their opinion on the gameplay experience to obtain it. You can’t possibly sit here and advocate that it’s ok to grind, just because ANet says it’s ok. Nor can you justify it by arguing that “it’s optional, if you don’t like it don’t do it”. I have been following ANet and GW2 for almost 2 years and every step of the way, they held strong on their philosophy that they didn’t want any aspect of the game to feel like it was repetitive (optional or not). So yes, I am thoroughly dissapointed when I come in to find aspects of the game that clearly dictate a need grind (dungeon armor, kharma armor). I expected something better, not less difficult, but better.

Pay attention because I’ll say this again: WE WANT THE DIFFICULTY, WE DON’T WANT THE REPETITION.

Wintyre Fraust.6534:

Farming isn’t necessary, it’s your option.

Actually it isn’t an available option for the players since ANet introduced the diminishing returns game logic.

Fozzik.1742:

The only thing we’re talking about here is that a lot of players feel it’s a necessity to have everything in the game RIGHT NOW.

Incorrect. Listen to the arguments and don’t assume things.

We’re not arguing over the desire to make things easier in the game to obtain, but the manner in which they are obtained.

The game advocates a fun, enjoyable, “non-grindy” experience through the 1-80 gameplay, but then abruptly throws “now go do dungeon x 46 times” in your face. It’s ridiculous. I personally would like to see elaborate story chains (that may very well take as much time as the grind) to make these vendors available.

And then to have folks in the forum spit out the generic “if you don’t like it, don’t do it” response. Let me make something painfully clear. Nobody here arguing against the level 80 experience is trying to take any fun away from any other player, so why are you folks arguing against us? We are working to IMPROVE the gameplay experience. So either come back with logical arguments over why our suggestions won’t work, or GTFO.

If you’re not 80, then you really can’t have any logical arguments over the gameplay at 80.

I really, really, really hate the concept of dungeon / faction / whatever specific currency. At it’s core it promotes grinding (since you have to do the very limited tasks required to obtain that currency).

GW2 was realllllly onto something w/ using kharma as a generic form of currency and then just totally ripped it away from the players at level 80 w/ both the dungeon tokens and the astronomical kharma prices (seriously? 384k kharma for 6 pieces of gear? I had just over 65k kharma after getting 100% map completion).

DirtyHoudini.2917:

Yea, this game doesn’t have end game. Literally, like the above poster said, the entire game is suppose to be end-game. This has been said by the devs again and again, the whole game is suppose to be end-game. They don’t want people hitting max level and thinking that’s when the game starts.

If you’re max level the beneficial things to do are: Get all your exotic gear (all exotic gear has the same stat variables), do some form of PvP, WvWvW more than likely because that’s where your exotic gear will hold any effect.

Except this workflow doesn’t really cut it.

What you’re essentially saying is play PvE until you hit 80, then we’re going to flip your entire gameplay experience around on you and make you do something else. Forget all that story and lore you built up on your way here, it was just filler to get you into sPvP and WvW.

It just doesn’t make sense to me. In the same forums I see two large PvE complaining tones.

1. Players at 80 are having difficulty finding fun things to do (risk vs reward prohibits it).
2. Players on their way up to 80 are finding group oriented DEs a pain because there are too few players to do them.

MajorMelchett.6042:

So you don’t want to do 100% of the game, yet you want the achievement for doing 100% of the game.

The PVP area is part of the world and as such if you want the 100% world completion you have to do it, if you don’t then you haven’t been to 100% of the world.

Maybe you should visit a server that never gets WvW control. Do we really want to advocate server xfers just for map completion? That feels shallow.

I typically use the term “endgame” to refer to the PvE gaming experience at max level; however, I’m reading a bunch of topics that are trying to squeeze sPvP and W3 into the label.

I’ve actually attempted to start some rational conversations on some of the things to fix the experience at level 80. My largest concern is that there is a significant lack of connection between the players and the content, with proposed solutions summarized here:

A. Re-tool the LFG system; We don’t want to “look for a group”, we want to “look for something fun to do”. Let the groups just naturally organize around the event.

1. Let the players subscribe to notifications of server-wide PVE events. Let us know when the centaurs are acting up in Hirathi Highlands, or when the Splintered Coast is seeing increased activity and that Tequatl’s approach is imminent. Let us know if the Citadel of Flame is under Flame Legion control or that Zojja needs our help at the Crusible of Eternity.

2. Incentivise revisiting certain lowly populated maps. Perhaps in the new “LFG” tool, we can show a priority call for action letting us know when the Durmand Priory’s forces are low (there are too few players on the map), or when (and where) the forces of Tyria are planning an attack on Zhaitan’s forces on Orr and need our help. Increase the magic item drop rate for these troubled zones.

3. Let the user queue up for dungeons that we want to queue up for. I have read that the development staff have no intentions on doing this, but I just cannot see how this would have any negative impact on the gameplay or the user experience.

B. Poop-Can the need to run a dungeon 46 times for one set of gear. This is just ridiculous and I don’t even know how this made the cut. I have a couple of ideas on how to fix this:

1. Dungeon vendors only become available after a player has completed at least 2 explorable modes. At that point, those vendors accept karma (poop-can the dungeon tokens).

2. Make dungeon tokens universal across all the different dungeons, and set it so that when a player completes a majority of the explorable dungeons, they have been rewarded with enough “dungeon currency” to purchase a single armor set.

@Adine, the first link isn’t what made it to release. Check out what’s currently up in the Gem Store.

snapshot attached

Ok seriously, which armor designer watched a little too much Power Rangers as a kid to come up with this?

Some really good stuff here, I def like the concept of daily events.

Personally though, I have issues with tokens specific to a dungeon / faction / race / etc; it really promotes the “grind” that I feel that users are trying to get away from. It also just takes up bag spaces until you can acquire enough of them (although this can be rectified as considering it currency and just have a tab for it).

It would be cool however, if I would have to complete a branched personal story chain to unlock the specific vendor, and then let kharma be the currency of choice.

I really would like to see how far in dungeon gear acquisition these folks are who are advocating to “keep it the way it is, if you don’t like it don’t play”.

If you’re not attempting to get the dungeon gear, then don’t argue against the folks who are and are having a difficult time doing it.

@Ang, et al: Let’s break this down, shall we?

Earn enough karma to purchase an exotic armor set
384k kharma for an exotic set? I hit 80 (barely spending any kharma and with 100% map complete doing every DE I ran into) with only 65k kharma – enough for an amulet. 384k kharma? I’d have to do that same thing 6 times. No thanks, that’s not fun.

Complete all dungeons in explorable mode
Reasonable suggestion if 1. Finding people willing to do these dungeons with wasn’t so hard and 2. I couldn’t afford to do these dungeons with the going costs for repairs.

Complete all 33 possible explorable mode dungeon paths
Isn’t this just a repeat of ^?

Earn enough dungeon tokens to purchase a set of armor
1380 tokens for an armor set at 30 tokens per dungeon runs is what… 46 runs? When did doing 46 of anything become fun? (except for making whoopy and eating gummy bears)

Experiment with new builds for your profession
Reasonable, but there’s only so much you can do there.

Create a Mystic weapon in the Mystic Forge
Again, fun for a relatively short time.

Craft a legendary weapon in the Mystic Forge
Considering the long grind involved w/ this? I’ll leave those grinds to the strongest willed players. I’d rather slay some dragons.

Create or purchase a full set of 20 slot bags
Really? Purchase a full set of 20 slot bags? “Hey guys, you need to play this game! you can buy 20 slot bags in it!!!” I like how they augment this line item with the option to craft OR purchase, because I’m certain the author new that the 10g rune mat was just ridiculous; that’s what, 80g plus mats to craft a full set of bags? I can barely afford the cost of navigating the map!

Participate in structured PvP
What it feels like the majority of people are advocating to be GW2 “true” endgame. I’m not buying it though. I like PvP, but I also like PvE.

Raise your sPvP rank
Again, it feels like the author was playing semantics with this thread buy granularly breaking gameplay items out.

Achieve the rank of Ascendant in sPvP
Seriously? 3 items for the same basic concept?

Earn all sPvP titles
I’m sorry, make that 4 items

Complete the current Monthly achievements
Seems to be the only thing I’ve really logged on to do at 80 lately

Help your guild earn influence to unlock additional perks
A good suggestion, I’ll actually try that one out.

Participate in World versus World
Again, another PvP suggestion; which is fine, but it doesn’t help out lvl 80 PvE.

Help your world win in WvW
Le Sigh.

Defeat enough enemy players in WvW to complete the medal
…

Earn enough gold to purchase a Commander Tome
I don’t even want to be a Commander, I just want to slay some dragons.

Learn the ins and outs of the Trading Post
When did Wall Street come out w/ an MMO?

Have fun!
That’s a good idea, maybe I’ll go play Borderlands 2.

http://guildwars2hub.com/features/editorials/80-things-do-level-80

A. Re-tool the LFG system; We don’t want to “look for a group”, we want to “look for something fun to do”. Let the groups just naturally organize around the event.

1. Let the players subscribe to notifications of server-wide PVE events. Let us know when the centaurs are acting up in Hirathi Highlands, or when the Splintered Coast is seeing increased activity and that Tequatl’s approach is imminent. Let us know if the Citadel of Flame is under Flame Legion control or that Zojja needs our help at the Crusible of Eternity.

2. Incentivise revisiting certain lowly populated maps. Perhaps in the new “LFG” tool, we can show a priority call for action letting us know when the Durmand Priory’s forces are low (there are too few players on the map), or when (and where) the forces of Tyria are planning an attack on Zhaitan’s forces on Orr and need our help. Increase the magic item drop rate for these troubled zones.

3. Let the user queue up for dungeons that we want to queue up for. I have read that the development staff have no intentions on doing this, but I just cannot see how this would have any negative impact on the gameplay or the user experience.

B. Poop-Can the need to run a dungeon 46 times for one set of gear. This is just ridiculous and I don’t even know how this made the cut. I have a couple of ideas on how to fix this:

1. Dungeon vendors only become available after a player has completed at least 2 explorable modes. At that point, those vendors accept karma (poop-can the dungeon tokens).

2. Make dungeon tokens universal across all the different dungeons, and set it so that when a player completes a majority of the explorable dungeons, they have been rewarded with enough “dungeon currency” to purchase a single armor set.

Rules:

- Try to narrow it down to your top 3 big ones
- Keep your posts concise and logical (Please, no made up facts or data)
- Absolutely no flaming (either respond with a logical argument or keep your hate comments out)

My opinion on the whole dungeon finder / dungeon grind topic:

A. Re-tool the LFG system; We don’t want to “look for a group”, we want to “look for something fun to do”. Let the groups just naturally organize around the event.

1. Let the players subscribe to notifications of server-wide PVE events. Let us know when the centaurs are acting up in Hirathi Highlands, or when the Splintered Coast is seeing increased activity and that Tequatl’s approach is imminent. Let us know if the Citadel of Flame is under Flame Legion control or that Zojja needs our help at the Crusible of Eternity.

2. Incentivise revisiting certain lowly populated maps. Perhaps in the new “LFG” tool, we can show a priority call for action letting us know when the Durmand Priory’s forces are low (there are too few players on the map), or when (and where) the forces of Tyria are planning an attack on Zhaitan’s forces on Orr and need our help. Increase the magic item drop rate for these troubled zones.

3. Let the user queue up for dungeons that we want to queue up for. I have read that the development staff have no intentions on doing this, but I just cannot see how this would have any negative impact on the gameplay or the user experience.

B. Poop-Can the need to run a dungeon 46 times for one set of gear. This is just ridiculous and I don’t even know how this made the cut. I have a couple of ideas on how to fix this:

1. Dungeon vendors only become available after a player has completed at least 2 explorable modes. At that point, those vendors accept karma (poop-can the dungeon tokens).

2. Make dungeon tokens universal across all the different dungeons, and set it so that when a player completes a majority of the explorable dungeons, they have been rewarded with enough “dungeon currency” to purchase a single armor set.

Tiresias.6473:

What you call “grind” is actually called “playing the game”.

Have you noticed that?

The reason it is a “grind” to you is because you are reward-focused from years of playing MMOs that have distilled boring activities into loot pinatas — you go out and do “this” activity to get “that” loot or you cannot do anything else because of “gear checks”.

GW2 is not that kind of game. Upgrades are extremely minor and you can do whatever you feel like doing at the moment and typically work towards multiple ends at the same time.

Of course, if you aren’t enjoying the game you can just take a break. It’s not like it has a subscription, after all. You should not expect any single game to consume every single waking minute of your life.

Yea, umm have you even seen the cost of dungeon exotics? A dungeon exotic set (just the armor) costs 1380 “dungeon tokens”. Considering you get roughly 30 tokens a run, that would net out to 46 dungeon runs.

Wait, what? 46 dungeon runs? I must’ve done that math wrong…

1380 / 30 = … Holy crap, that’s 46.

Riddle me this, in what universe does doing anything 46 times not seem insanely tedious? (Except making whoopy or eating jelly beans of course).

I would also like to point out that there has been quite a bit of content that I haven’t even had a chance to participate in simply because there were never enough people around to be able to (Orr, I’m looking at you).

I really think if we can find a way to insentivise or even advertise these areas better, we’d see a lot more engagement from the lvl 80 player base.

And this is what I love about MMO communities

@Denial, don’t even get me started.

I’ve made a couple posts offering (what I felt where) logical suggestions on how to fix some of these post-80 issues; rather than players composing rational arguments for or against my suggestions, I was instead assaulted with a barrage of these “don’t like it, go back to wow” rubbish.

McSneaky.9037:

I agree, but they dont care – they already have our money. Any ideas what other games we can play? Im bored!

Comments like these have no constructive value. They care, or we’d likely not even have a web forum – there’s no direct profit to be made from it.

OP – I can certainly feel your pain. There are a few of us who are actively looking for ways to improve the experience after 80. You may have to dig through some of the argumentative b.s. to get to some of these posts, but I promise you, they are out there, and some of the suggestions are really good.

We can only hope that the good devs at ArenaNet have enough steam to be able to sift through the rubbage posts and are able to find some of the good constructive ones.

Thanks, anu. I’m certainly patient about the gameplay; I just figured I’d give my opinions on the topic and hope that someone at ANet sees it and give it some consideration.

Wolfgrey.2049:

Lance Coolee.9480:

I’m going to go out on a limb here and assume this person doesn’t even work for ArenaNet, nor has he had any constructive input in what they as a company have decided for the path of their beloved product.

Ah Lance Coolee, you had about as much constructive input as a lot of people who complain around here.

I am simply stating the focus of the game, i am not even complaining at all.I am simply stating how i see it, you are free to discuss it but i suggest you do so a little nicer.

My apologies if I was abrasive.

But c’mon, let’s not assume we know what ArenaNet has in store for the entirety of their audience just because of what we as an individual have experienced or want out of the experience.

There is a TON of PvE lore in the game; to assume they’d just shrug it off as “filler” between opening the box and burning faces in PvP is just silly. Besides the style of gameplay for the entirety of the PvE experience is completely different from the PvP experience.

There are some very solid PvE-centric players looking for the next big thing, and I for one am still rooting for ArenaNet.

I’m going to go out on a limb here and assume this person doesn’t even work for ArenaNet, nor has he had any constructive input in what they as a company have decided for the path of their beloved product.

Wolfgrey.2049:

PvP is the point and focus of this game no matter how much PvE content there is.The sooner you understand that the better off you will be.

That’s an awefully surprising statement considering how much time, energy and money they put into the leveling experience to just have PVE die at 80.

Well one positive thing about DusK’s argumentative behavior is that I just found out you can ignore a forum user by clicking on their name.

@Daedalus, just don’t respond to that guy. A simple look through his thread responses clearly shows he’s got nothing constructive to say to anyone that doesn’t share his opinion and merely argues for the sake of arguing.

D. None of the above.

I’m here making very thought out, logical suggestions on how to improve the level 80 PVE experience.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Why-endgame-PVE-feels-like-a-boring-standstill/first (you really should have read the full post along with my replies first before using it in your argument)

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/What-the-LFG-system-should-be/first

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/How-did-Dungeon-Grinding-survive-the-cut/first

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/PVE-needs-better-aggro-management-abilities/first

Granted, they are my opinions and suggestions, but if you have an argument for or against them, read the entire post and make sure you have an understanding of what was being advocated, then state you logical argument, instead of all this “if you don’t like it, go back to wow” nonsense that I see littered across the forums.

Lance Coolee.9480:

I’m really sorry and not to call people out, but every post I read here that argued AGAINST the OP didn’t really have anything constructive to say.

There are honest players posting legitimate arguments about the state of content at level 80. And to be brutally honest, if you haven’t a character that’s at level 80, you probably should keep your comments to yourselves.

Yes, it’s 27 days into the game, but some of these arguments hold valid whether you hit level 80 the day after release or a few months after release. If anything, appreciate the fact that there are people out there, making reasonable suggestions on how to fix these problems so that other people don’t have to experience the same challenges.

Pretty sure there’s nothing in there about my opinions on the amount of content in the game.

marianitten.1247:

@rock no… these post were the first ones yesterday:

“Preface: I’m a fairly casual player, and have already completed my story, leveled one craft to 400 and have gotten 100% map completion.” <- That is impossible for a casual

@marian: considering you singled me out individually, I’ll respond to your argument with a screenshot.

That was my hours logged as of yesterday, with a level 80, 100% map complete and 1 level 400 craft. Now granted “casual” is a relative term, so I’ll define it as it relates to me.
- I have a steady 40ish hr / week job
- I’m actively planning a wedding
- I’m fostering 9 newborn puppies until they are ready to be adopted
- I don’t stay up to 2 in the morning playing
- I do tend to play a bit more on the weekends (on and off) when time is made available
- I don’t have time to run 2 hr long dungeons (I have to take breaks to clean up puppy poo in between game play)
- I don’t nearly have enough money needed to carry my butt across the map to find the really cool and rewarding events

Maybe if you read the rest of the post instead of assuming you know what I was saying after the second line, you’d have something substantial to say.

Martym.6971:

Lance Coolee.9480:

Martym.6971:

Lance Coolee.9480:

Martym.6971:

Lance Coolee.9480:

Zzulu.5489:

Lance Coolee.9480:

Guys, seriously – come up with some other argument other than “we play too much”; that has ALREADY been clearly debunked.

< 131 hrs got me to level 80 with 100% map explored, 1 400 craft and a full exotic set. (scroll up for ss)

I can also do a pretty good job at reciting my entire lore experience, because I thoroughly enjoyed playing through to level 80.

Name some MMO’s in the past 8 years that launched with more content than GW2 did

I don’t have to, this isn’t a thread directed at comparing GW2 to other MMO’s. This isn’t about what other games did well or didn’t do well.

This thread is focused on GW2’s experience at level 80. End of story. If you have an argument for or against that, then post it; but otherwise, stay on topic and keep ur irrelevant fallacies out of the thread.

Actually it’s very relevant to the topic.

And 131 hours play time brother? I garuntee you, you thought the same thing yesterday, and yesterday marked the 3rd week after Guild Wars 2 launch, and you stated you played 131 hours give or take, so I will go with 131.

131 / 3 = roughly 43.67 hours a week played, which is a little over 6 hours everyday of the week you have been online….6.24 hours to be exact…EVERYDAY, that’s a lot of time to AVERAGE to be on the game everyday of the week.

6.24 hours, that is 374 minutes per day….on THAT character.

Do you have any other characters? Add that time in. I bet you do.

Your factors are incorrect. Yesterday wasn’t the 3rd week, it was the 4th. 27 days to be exact, which puts me at under 5 hours a day. Realistically, I play for 3 hours on the weekdays and have been playing on and off through the day the past few saturdays and sundays (which seem to have made up the difference in the 5 hr / day average).

Regarding my other character, I posted the screenshot in this thread, you go look for yourself.

http://www.arena.net/blog/announcing-the-guild-wars-2-launch-date

---

Earlier this year I told you that 2012 would be the Year of the Dragon, and that the next few betas would help us nail down our actual launch date. Well, after the results of our latest stress test, I’m happy to announce that we’re ready to nail down that date.

Guild Wars 2 will officially launch on Tuesday, August 28th.*****************

Taken directly off the website blog, so that would make yesterday the 3rd week 4th day of the week. The 4th week will be this Tuesday the 25th.

Edit: I meant 4th week, I don’t know where my head is today, regardless, that’s a re-tar-ded amount of time to be playing in that short of time.

Your not factoring in the 3 day headstart.

Edit: I’m also sorry that I’m not playing by your rules. So then tell me, if 3 hours a day is too much, then what, dear sir, is a reasonable amount of time to play?

I certainly wouldn’t want to offend anyone by playing a game that I enjoy playing…

3 hours a day….LOL! I’m done here. Enjoy your endeavors in recalling first grade math.

Got better things to do than deal with brats on the internet, like dealing with my own brats at home.

Keep fooling yourself, and no you haven’t gotten anywhere near to “nothing left to do” WITH 131 hours.

Nor have I argued that I hadn’t anything left to do, just that PVE at level 80 wasn’t enjoyable, and have made several logical arguments in how to solve it.

Either contribute positively, or gtfo of the thread.

Martym.6971:

Lance Coolee.9480:

Martym.6971:

Lance Coolee.9480:

Zzulu.5489:

Lance Coolee.9480:

Guys, seriously – come up with some other argument other than “we play too much”; that has ALREADY been clearly debunked.

< 131 hrs got me to level 80 with 100% map explored, 1 400 craft and a full exotic set. (scroll up for ss)

I can also do a pretty good job at reciting my entire lore experience, because I thoroughly enjoyed playing through to level 80.

Name some MMO’s in the past 8 years that launched with more content than GW2 did

I don’t have to, this isn’t a thread directed at comparing GW2 to other MMO’s. This isn’t about what other games did well or didn’t do well.

This thread is focused on GW2’s experience at level 80. End of story. If you have an argument for or against that, then post it; but otherwise, stay on topic and keep ur irrelevant fallacies out of the thread.

Actually it’s very relevant to the topic.

And 131 hours play time brother? I garuntee you, you thought the same thing yesterday, and yesterday marked the 3rd week after Guild Wars 2 launch, and you stated you played 131 hours give or take, so I will go with 131.

131 / 3 = roughly 43.67 hours a week played, which is a little over 6 hours everyday of the week you have been online….6.24 hours to be exact…EVERYDAY, that’s a lot of time to AVERAGE to be on the game everyday of the week.

6.24 hours, that is 374 minutes per day….on THAT character.

Do you have any other characters? Add that time in. I bet you do.

Your factors are incorrect. Yesterday wasn’t the 3rd week, it was the 4th. 27 days to be exact, which puts me at under 5 hours a day. Realistically, I play for 3 hours on the weekdays and have been playing on and off through the day the past few saturdays and sundays (which seem to have made up the difference in the 5 hr / day average).

Regarding my other character, I posted the screenshot in this thread, you go look for yourself.

http://www.arena.net/blog/announcing-the-guild-wars-2-launch-date

---

Earlier this year I told you that 2012 would be the Year of the Dragon, and that the next few betas would help us nail down our actual launch date. Well, after the results of our latest stress test, I’m happy to announce that we’re ready to nail down that date.

Guild Wars 2 will officially launch on Tuesday, August 28th.*****************

Taken directly off the website blog, so that would make yesterday the 3rd week 4th day of the week. The 4th week will be this Tuesday the 25th.

Edit: I meant 4th week, I don’t know where my head is today, regardless, that’s a re-tar-ded amount of time to be playing in that short of time.

Your not factoring in the 3 day headstart.

Edit: I’m also sorry that I’m not playing by your rules. So then tell me, if 3 hours a day is too much, then what, dear sir, is a reasonable amount of time to play?

I certainly wouldn’t want to offend anyone by playing a game that I enjoy playing…

Had I known there was an optimal pace to play governed by the ArenaNet “product enjoyment team”, I certainly would’ve considered that while playing.

However, since there wasn’t, I (as a reasonable adult with a 50 hr / week job, a wedding to plan and 9 newborn foster puppies to care for) felt that my pace and style of game play adequately fit my lifestyle.

@marianitten: …or what about those similar replies, bashing folks giving valid suggestions on improving the experience at level 80, with comments like “if you don’t like it, go back to wow”.

How is it that those types of responses aren’t as equally dejected?

tolunart.2095:

The truth is, as a non-subscription game, the piles of money they made (and will make) from the box sales represents the majority of cash the game will bring in. Sales from the cash shop may help pay the day-to-day maintainance but the bulk of the profit comes from boxes. They’ve already made enough to guarantee an expansion and even advertised on the site that they are hiring.

.. I never understood comments like this.

I’m sorry, what facts do you have that back this “truth”? Are you the finance manager for ANet? Do you have any clue how much money has been been invested in the game prior to opening day to even validate whether they are in the black yet? Heck do you even really know the number of boxes / dd have been sold?

I’d love to see where you’re getting this highly qualified information from.

Martym.6971:

Lance Coolee.9480:

Zzulu.5489:

Lance Coolee.9480:

Guys, seriously – come up with some other argument other than “we play too much”; that has ALREADY been clearly debunked.

< 131 hrs got me to level 80 with 100% map explored, 1 400 craft and a full exotic set. (scroll up for ss)

I can also do a pretty good job at reciting my entire lore experience, because I thoroughly enjoyed playing through to level 80.

Name some MMO’s in the past 8 years that launched with more content than GW2 did

I don’t have to, this isn’t a thread directed at comparing GW2 to other MMO’s. This isn’t about what other games did well or didn’t do well.

This thread is focused on GW2’s experience at level 80. End of story. If you have an argument for or against that, then post it; but otherwise, stay on topic and keep ur irrelevant fallacies out of the thread.

Actually it’s very relevant to the topic.

And 131 hours play time brother? I garuntee you, you thought the same thing yesterday, and yesterday marked the 3rd week after Guild Wars 2 launch, and you stated you played 131 hours give or take, so I will go with 131.

131 / 3 = roughly 43.67 hours a week played, which is a little over 6 hours everyday of the week you have been online….6.24 hours to be exact…EVERYDAY, that’s a lot of time to AVERAGE to be on the game everyday of the week.

6.24 hours, that is 374 minutes per day….on THAT character.

Do you have any other characters? Add that time in. I bet you do.

Your factors are incorrect. Yesterday wasn’t the 3rd week, it was the 4th. 27 days to be exact, which puts me at under 5 hours a day. Realistically, I play for 3 hours on the weekdays and have been playing on and off through the day the past few saturdays and sundays (which seem to have made up the difference in the 5 hr / day average).

Regarding my other character, I posted the screenshot in this thread, you go look for yourself.

Coming from a software developer that greatly values VALID user input….

A million times this ^

Zzulu.5489:

Lance Coolee.9480:

Zzulu.5489:

Lance Coolee.9480:

Guys, seriously – come up with some other argument other than “we play too much”; that has ALREADY been clearly debunked.

< 131 hrs got me to level 80 with 100% map explored, 1 400 craft and a full exotic set. (scroll up for ss)

I can also do a pretty good job at reciting my entire lore experience, because I thoroughly enjoyed playing through to level 80.

Name some MMO’s in the past 8 years that launched with more content than GW2 did

I don’t have to, this isn’t a thread directed at comparing GW2 to other MMO’s. This isn’t about what other games did well or didn’t do well.

This thread is focused on GW2’s experience at level 80. End of story. If you have an argument for or against that, then post it; but otherwise, stay on topic and keep ur irrelevant fallacies out of the thread.

You mean you can’t, because there are none.

Let that sink in. Then stand back and consider the fact. Maybe you’ll come to the realization that the only way you’ve burned through all the content there is at this point in time is because you play far more than the target demographic they’re aiming for.

If you are displeased with the amount of content in the game you can always take a break. There are no monthly fees and you can quite easily do so.

Trolls will be trolls.

What part of 131 logged hours didn’t sink in? You do the math.

Martym.6971:

Lance Coolee.9480:

Guys, seriously – come up with some other argument other than “we play too much”; that has ALREADY been clearly debunked.

< 131 hrs got me to level 80 with 100% map explored, 1 400 craft and a full exotic set. (scroll up for ss)

I can also do a pretty good job at reciting my entire lore experience, because I thoroughly enjoyed playing through to level 80.

You honestly haven’t debunked anything, keep telling yourself that.

As for naming other MMOs that have launched with more content, I can name a couple. FFXI, EQ, Warhammer.

The argument was that only the “40 hr a week” hardcore players are the only ones experience the drop in enjoyment at level 80. I presented a clear screenshot that certainly debunked that argument.

Regardless, the original topic remains – that players at level 80 (regardless if it takes you a day or 3 months to get there) are mostly experience the same challenges.

Zzulu.5489:

Lance Coolee.9480:

Guys, seriously – come up with some other argument other than “we play too much”; that has ALREADY been clearly debunked.

< 131 hrs got me to level 80 with 100% map explored, 1 400 craft and a full exotic set. (scroll up for ss)

I can also do a pretty good job at reciting my entire lore experience, because I thoroughly enjoyed playing through to level 80.

Name some MMO’s in the past 8 years that launched with more content than GW2 did

I don’t have to, this isn’t a thread directed at comparing GW2 to other MMO’s. This isn’t about what other games did well or didn’t do well.

This thread is focused on GW2’s experience at level 80. End of story. If you have an argument for or against that, then post it; but otherwise, stay on topic and keep ur irrelevant fallacies out of the thread.

Guys, seriously – come up with some other argument other than “we play too much”; that has ALREADY been clearly debunked.

< 131 hrs got me to level 80 with 100% map explored, 1 400 craft and a full exotic set. (scroll up for ss)

I can also do a pretty good job at reciting my entire lore experience, because I thoroughly enjoyed playing through to level 80.