Guild Wars 2

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

and that damage, no matter the source, should reveal your presence.

problem here is unreliable dmg. if i set a trap i can not control when u step into it but would still get reveald if u do, now then its the thief who has not enough control in the fight. also for mesmers they allways need to shatter to stealth then and the trait for clone on dogge is kind of stupid then.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

I’m not for blindly nerfing thieves or whoever. I say give them something of equivalent significance else than stealth to compensate for anything we remove from them.

thieves had something else then stealth with old s/d builds. they got nerfed so that they r not that competitive anymore. now they will get daredevil wich will give them some sort of defense out of stealth back. but the 3rd dogge cant compete with old feline grace, so thief still wont be that good on the defensive side.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Stealth is too prevalent in fights in this game. It should be a tactical advantage but not a constant combat one. Beside, a skill should be counterable by a skill not only by resources.

stealth is not a ‘skill’ its generated multiple skills/traits. and in order to keep up perma stealth u also have to use skills or combos that can fail like smokefiled+leap ..as there is no leap with 0 dmg or CnD which can be dogged/blocked/missed and needs to be timed perfectly. if a warrior is just ignoring the ccs i put on him coz i dont have a boon strip and is also ‘invuln’ to soft cc and just runs away ..i also cant counter that on many chars. u cant counter every skill / trait /whatever with every class. but u can fight any class/build if u build accordingly. maybe u can just build to make it an endless fight situation where no one wins but u dont have to die to any build.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Being annoying does lessen gaming experience, and anything that does that should be addressed, IMO.

see i prefer a ghost thief fighting me 1 vs 1 then these 4-5 ppl groups that keep ganking n chasing single targets. so whats ur suggestion to nerf ppl outnumbering me all the time ? and no ‘run in a group urself’ is not a correct answer..coz that would also fix ur ghost thief problem and still u want it changed

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

That all depend on context. I’m not immune to condi and if he strikes me at the right moment it can go down really fast since I have 13kish life.

thats what ppl keep sayin: use a condi remove n heal up. its not like he spamms the traps.

vs ppl that do have condi cleanse a ghost thief will use all the condi preassure he can at once or at a short time to hope that the opponent wont cleanse all. after theat he will reach a point where he has like 15-20s everything on cd apart from dogge caltrops. that should be enough time for u to heal up / get ur condi cleanse skill rdy again.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

That thief might also not be alone and still able to cap an objective if I decide to bail because I’m powerless.

if the thief is not alone.. why the hell should u have the given right to win outnumbered? and yes if u retreat he could cap something. but for capping and killing the guards he has to be VISIBLE. if u cant kill the visible ghost thief then u have alot more problems with other condition builds.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

He can do a lot. The point is, he control a situation I can merely react to it and hope or concede.

see that is ur major problem with the build u dont control the fight. thats why i said the only thing about this build that might be ‘OP’ is its annoyance level, but i doubt annoyance is a nerf reason.

oh well as far as i understood it will be done pretty fast cause :

Again, hero challenges are worth 10 points each in the jungle. So no you don’t need to go do 200-400 jungle challenges.

and from the news page :

The vendor sells new consumables called Notarized Scrolls of Heroics and Notarized Scrolls of Maguuma Heroics, as well as superior siege weapon blueprints.
When consumed, these scrolls will complete one random hero challenge in either Central Tyria or Maguuma, respectively.

now u got to buy 40 Scrolls of Maguuma Heroics and u have 400 points.. unless they cost alot more.

apharma.3741:

As for no indicators, it depends where you are and what’s happening. As you’re a frequent visitor to the thief forums, I’m sure you remember that ranger vid where he just got destroyed by the trap thief. I know the ranger made a slight mistake but there was no indication that any enemy was there till the second set of trap got laid on him. Even then you only saw the thief once for a second after they stomped due to not enough stacked stealth.

yes i know that video. thats rather a problem of pre dropped traps. the thief in the video also said he had pre played down some traps , had them rdy again when the ranger triggered the first one, then he placed the 2nd traps and got lucky with improvisation to put down some more. to fix this it would be enough to make the needle trap / trip wire more like the shadow trap.
the shadow trap’s cd goes down like the one of needle trap/ tripwire when placed the trap. but in order to place another one right after that time u have to change skills which destroys the trap. u can also use the skill that replaces shadow trap : either Destroy Trap wich ports u to that location ( is declared a trap skill but does not give stealth from the rune) this will trigger the trap cd or Shadow Pursuit when someone has already triggered it and using this skill will also set the trap on cd. So if u change skill bar when placed needle trap / tripwhire to a specific ‘destroy trap’ which will set it on cd or if the trap is triggered the cd starts would also prevent the kind of condi bomb of that video. without that much condis the ranger had easily enough time to react properly to the thief.

p.s. i think setting cd when triggered is better or it will get complicated with the needle trap on heal.

edit: only putting direct dmg on that traps wouldnt prevent the ranger to die in that video coz he died just on condy overload ..if the thief was around the corner when the 1. traps where triggered he just had to wait 3s for reveal to end port with stealth through the wall and hes restealthed at the enemy again so the ranger wouldnt have seen him till then.

apharma.3741:

I think you can kind of boil down the discussion to a simple yes or no to a very simple question.

Should you ever be able to kill someone without ever leaving stealth or any indicators you were there?

its not possible to stay 100% stealthed without indicators. most ghost thieves ive seen do this with d/p so u see em pistolfields. u also could stay stealthed with p/d but that requieres u to prefectly time ur CnD or ur revealed also if u fight a thief perma stealthing with CnD u need to aoe blind / block / dogge and his stealth runs out. i ve seen already perma stealthed thieves with only CnD like 2 years back so thats nothing new and if they play power build they should kill u alot faster then a p/d ghost thief.

will u demand a cd on CnD just for the skills nature to remain stealthed if timed perfectly ? well i mained thief 3 years and wont touch it after HoT so for me it wouldnt be a nerf .. but for the few remaining thieves that stick to this class even tho they got pretty much nerfed out of the game – just check the thief forums and u will find tons of ppl quitting / changing class now.

i also had the pleassure to fight 2 trapper thieves again yesterday once on my mesmer and one on my engi. none of em lasted more then 5 seconds. i put a chaos storm on the one who got interrupted/stunned in any attempt to restealth and got bursted down. 2nd one just jumpshot with lockon trait onto pistolfield , 6s reveal => dead thief. and my engi did have very low condi remove , mesmer only had condi duration reduction.

ofc u can now again argue that they were bad, but i see posts here about ghost thieves to kill 15 ppl ..if a ghost thief can kill 1vs 15 – those 15 were simply bad.

a ghost thief is good for killing brainless players or even groups or ppl without condi remove/reduction. but most roaming builds should be able to handle ghost thieves.

and still :

- no trapper runes needed for 100% stealth.
- adding back direct dmg is not a fix as traps were not used with direct dmg.
- still the only ‘OP’ thing about this build is its annoyance level. im also annoyed by groups of 4-5 ppl who keep chasing solo roamers – pls fix this.

P.S. pu chrono will be fun. btw they had 200% stealth => 150% stealth but with alacrity they will have more stealth then before last pu nerf and with alacrity they can get their scepter block down to ~3,6s cd .. dont think trapper thief is the build u will cry about most in a few days

well it could be changed to be like in wvw where u cant see enemy names…tho there r ways to find em out, but as u have to do some more clicks to u actually can verbalise ur rage many ppl just dont pm in wvw. u only get many complaits if u troll people with pu mes / ghost thief (gladly u can ‘select’ if enemy will get the chance to see u so u can prevent getting pmt by just not being visible) – tho the complaits/insults r mostly from same ppl who run aroung ganking 5 vs 1 so i cant take em serious.

but in the end where there is competiton there will be rage => insults, trolls and so on. and there r allways ways to find out the ingame name of the guy u want to rage on

till now this discussion is leading to nowhere soo next try :

main issue : annoyance level of the build – that is the real issue of ghost thief its annoying at an unhealthy level for the game.

possible solution:

1) reduce thieves condition applying options via utility/steal/dogge what ever and improve the conditons on weapon skills. cause atm the weapon skills apply so few conditions that its not worth taking the risk of being reveald for that bit of extra dmg.
so basically shifiting conditionpreassure from utility to weapon skills.

feel free to add other possible solutions to the annoyance level.

other problems metioned in this thread: perma stealth, condition preassure, trapper rune as such.

perma stealth has allways been a problem and the only harmfull perma stealth build is ghost thief tho the ‘solution’ i offered could help there as weapon skills reveal on hit. so a thief should not be able to remain stealthed while dealing deadly damage.

condition preassure: overall a thief does not do too much condition preassure compared to other classes but too much while remaining stealthed- so shifting the conditions to weapon skills would fix this too.

trapper runes: well here u can argue wheter they r OP or not.. atm they work too well with trapper thief but if a thief wont need to rely on traps to apply his condis- then there will be other/better options rune wise. cant talk about ranger/dh as i dont play em.

edit: dh/ranger stealth is fine as it is just opener stealth and they wont stay in stealth for a major part of the fight.
mesmers is another point but well i bet they will get a lot of nerves anyway as all kind of chronomancer builds are considered OP coz of alacrity + invuln ..also the PU nerf from 2x base duration to 1,5x .. but with chronomancer and perm alacrity mesmer can stay even more stealthed then before. u could try a chrono + chaos +illusion mesmer to stay in stealth for a major part of the fight and be invuln when visible ..as u might not need the clone on dogge with chronomancer

just use rune of svanir instead of vamp runes , yes u cant move as ice block like u could with mist form . BUT u can use utility instant casts and class mechanics .. downside might be that it is a thoughness rune and not a power one

problem is :

if u just change the rune to do something diffrent then stealth u affect other builds/classes of rangers or DH in a few days. also thief still CAN stay 100% invis
while killing u so ppl will still demand nerf.

if u change the thief traps they wont be used as before coz there is no condi thief build
that doesnt rely on stealth so a reveal on activation of the trap can have unwanted side effects also a reveal on placing the trapp is just ridicolous coz u can then just dogge the trap as they only apply condis on triggering.

so at the end u need to kind of rework thief (& stealth) – that is kind of due for a long time but i doubt it will happen soon.

btw why r there 2-3 threads ( 1 here , 2 thief forum) about this thread ongoing with same ppl same agruments and same non existent results?

creating any line of sight for a player on top of the wall will make it abusable to ppl on the ground.

edit: i also dont want defending ppl to have freecast positions coz then u wont need siege just a few eles on the defending side.

but with reveal on traps the ‘safest’ condi build wont be a thief but a mesmer.

Chips.7968:

Puck.9612:

A ranger running traps is also sacrificing his condi cleanse since he isn’t able to use his survival skills. .

SO IS A THIEF (to a degree). Have you played the ‘ghost thief’ build at all?

i played ghost thief and never had probs with conditions even if i stepped into a necros staff 4 that just gave me back my ’op condi burst ’.

now to thief traps again the ONLY TRAP THAT DEALSS DMG does immobilze yes and u have 1 trap that knocks ..now thief can -to get more cc- use trip wire but thats just cc no condi preassure (apart from 5 vuln stacks + 5 might through the trait )

and ur compariosn of brun vs some bleed stacks (most ppl move out of caltrops very fast) + cc? that immob is a condition. if u have enough condi remove to remove rangers condis u also have enough to get rid of the thief ones. im sure most ghost thieves would like a burn trap instead of that immob+caltrop on dogge.

n yes ur right i dont play ranger and use that build editor. but i fought against both builds and IMO a ghost thief has alot lower condi preassure compared to ranger.

as already metioned a few times as the thief traps had direct dmg nobody used em , so just re-adding that wont be a good fix.

i still see more trapper rangers around then ghost thieves ..altho the poor rangers get revealed – so it cant be a too bad build.

meteor shower’s LoS is working. to ‘fix’ the issue u have with it, the LoS-check for AoEs need to be done to every point on the outer circle of the effect – or at least on most as a circle has infinite points on it. ting is then an AC will only hit something outside the gate/wall if he is placed on the edge where he can get hit by everything as an AC also only has ground targetted skills. also mortar skill 5 will be nearly useless as the mortars are placed in middle of the wall. so in the end the only effective def will be trebs and catas as they dont use ground targetting.

IMO giving the defending team an option to place ‘unlimited’ siege that cant be destroyed by the attackers will just make it impossible to conquer anything that is deffed by a few ppl. so ppl will only try to sneak capture stuff or just golem rush everything.

Puck.9612:

MUDse.7623:

Puck.9612:

= make traps work the same way across all professions. The same reason they took ground targeted traps away from rangers.

so u want to compare em traps..

the damaging ranger traps do have lower cd then the thief ones also they can apply in total : 6 stacks bleeding + 3 stacks poison + 3 stacks burning

while the thief will do 3 stacks bleeding +1 stack poison or if u cound the needle trap twice coz also on heal then it is its 6 stacks bleeding + 2 stacks poison ..

still missing 1 stack poison and 3 stacks burning ah and lower cd. if u make thief trapps apply more condition and lower their cd to the ranger ones..then u can also add em direct dmg.

The ranger trap that applies bleeding has a longer cooldown than the thief traps that apply condi’s and it’s the only one with a cc that they can’t just dodgeroll out of.

and here i thought u r main ranger.
needle trap 30s cd – 24 if traited.
spike trap 25s cd – 20 if traited.

Puck.9612:

Not only does a rangers traps reveal him but his pet never get stealth so there is no way for the ranger to disengage without being seen.

a thief doesnt need traps to escape unseen so its not a valid argument to nerf the rune / traps.

Puck.9612:

Ranger can’t stealth and dodge roll over his opponent to add a bunch of bleeds. Ranger gets burning, thief gets a lot more bleeds and cc.

yes ranger doesnt apply conditions per dogge but can apply alot more condition preassure with his weapons + pet also he can use sigils that apply conditions on weapon swap like doom or geomancy coz the only thing he losses when he gets revealed is that he is being seen. the thief will loose his condition cleanse , his heal (as he uses skill #6 offensivly for 2nd needle trap) if we speak about a thief that also gets revealed lets say p/d trapper thief .. he also wont use geomancy / doom that easy as he needs stealth for sneak attack.

dont get me wrong i want them traps to reveal the thief like u. but in return i want a thief to do same condi preassure other condi builds can like rangers, engis , mesmers or nekros.

mexay.3902:

25 stacks of stability on 80 people

Thoughts?

never seen 25 stacks on 80 people.
i think with the chronomancer well that grants aoe evade u can just walk through all that cc

Puck.9612:

= make traps work the same way across all professions. The same reason they took ground targeted traps away from rangers.

so u want to compare em traps..

the damaging ranger traps do have lower cd then the thief ones also they can apply in total : 6 stacks bleeding + 3 stacks poison + 3 stacks burning

while the thief will do 3 stacks bleeding +1 stack poison or if u count the needle trap twice coz also on heal then it is its 6 stacks bleeding + 2 stacks poison ..

still missing 1 stack poison and 3 stacks burning ah and lower cd. if u make thief trapps apply more condition and lower their cd to the ranger ones..then u can also add em direct dmg.

imo if nothing happens when ppl pass, and u have to use it as an active ability – then it doesnt deserve the name :trap. u could tho make all traps like shadow trap to mark ur enemy and then actively use the effect.. but that would be in total a buff to the build as u can then wait with the activation till ur trap is almost rdy again.

a reveal on activated trap is only a disadvantage for the thief if he fights much larger numbers. for many ppl i could just place shadow trap on range , come close , double needle trap + steal ( maybe 1 more trap) and port back to OUT OF COMBAT while the ppl i put the condis on will stay in fight and i just need to get stealth , come closer and do it again

the main issue ppl die to this build is too few condi removes and they not even trying to preassure the pistolfield.

the only thing IMO that is kind of OP withing thief class or any build they play is Shadow Trap ..10k range port is just an instant out of combat button.

well 3k on condi set..then ill run power trapper build and insta kill squishy ppl with 2-3 stacked traps. if one of em is shadow trap i just can wait like 5-10k units away out of their view range and once i see dmg popping up i just use shadow trap and stomp agree that would be more balanced coz id be visible after the 5.6s stealth i get from shadow persuit .. IMO still best way to ‘fix’ it was posted by Raiden at the beginnig of this discussion – tho i am sure there will be alot stronger builds then this one very soon.

im sure the way many blobfights r will drastically change with HoT. if u then take like 1-2 chronomancer in pt for well of precognition then u also get tons of stealth for ur blob and can just gank enemy blobs, appearing inside of em with tons of cc+ dmg + invuln

Howl.2498:

see the position of the trap, etc.

exactly this line makes that change rediciolous. if ppl see the trap they will just dogge it and its gone. its not like ranger trap who also apply conditions after they r triggered.

if its 1 vs 1 or 1 vs 2 ..against most ppl a reveal when trap is triggered wouldnt kill a ghost thief as 3s reveal is pretty short.

u only need to stay stealthed if u want to fight larger groups that would cc chain u to death.

ps: today agian a few h ghost thief only 1 ranger stepped once into my pistolfield..others didnt even try as usually. but they were quick on the insults if i revealed myself after the fight.

ArchonWing.9480:

WvW is no longer map completion related so those points won’t show.

oh right forgot about this, then its coz most of my chars got 90-100%
i lvl em doing the maps and when they hit 80 they have like 90% at least the way i do.

so as u can buy all traits+ utilities with the heropoints u get from lvl ups then they should add hero points for lvl ups after lv80 again or just increase the amount of hero points u get till lv 80 so every lv 80 can just buy it.

stealth is a defensive mechanic , u dont want ppl to stay stealth while dealing dmg…
then pls disable warrior skills in endure pain / adrenaline stance, ranger skills while signet of stone , ele skills while obsidian flesh and so on.

in most builds stealth is not really a problem .. pretty much only in a ghost thief build and maybe upcomming pu chronomancers. also with new reveal skills pls wait till they come before u demand stealth nerfs. not like there were perma / nearly perma stealth build for 3 years now..

hmm but i have more hero points then listed when i open worldmap

thats why i keep saying put direct dmg on it BUT buff the traps as such

im also sure the AoE limitation to 5 targets for most skills was mostly coz of WvWvW

uhm i do have more then 170 hero points on like every lv 80+ char i have ..coz u get them also from lvl ups . as u also get xp in wvw u wont need pve for that.

hmm well i am used to play with me SB but ye with CnD itll do .. but as i didnt play p/d or d/d for a long time i’d prob mess up the perfect timing to chain CnD ..a bit too early and ur revealed a bit to late and u might be cced

ranger traps deal direct dmg so he must be revealed when u move into those traps.

Puck.9612:

You can easily kill up to 3 people without any problems, above that organized players will be able to power rez, but at no point are you in danger of dying.

thats right as long as most people dont know what to do, and my experience is that many ppl just stand stil or run in circles panicing and not trying to preassure ur pistolfield. did u fight duels with that build vs some ppl that wanted to figure how to beat it ? .. i bet if u do so after a few duels u will have a very hard time – especially vs other thieves that run SA and can spam ports into ur pistolfield. i hope i find some time to duel with jayne a bit to prove myself and to u that this build is beatable, maybe i can record those fights. IMO as this build seems to appear more often just recently its more a ‘new’ thing to most ppl and we got to learn how to fight it before anyone can really say that it is too strong and how to ‘fix’ it optimally and fixing is not completly destroying trapper builds as such.

hs is not just used to stealth on thief , now if u increase its iniative cost pve focused thieves wont like that change as they use the skill for dmg – not mainly for invis. problem is if u change the rune or any other skill / trait apart from the thief trap skills ..u will also affect other playstyles.

im really sry i have no clue how to explain it to u. u either cant or dont seem willing to understand what i type – or ur simply trolling coz u dont like to fight trapper thieves.

1) you can perma stealth WITHOUT trapper rune.
2 ) even without trapper rune u wont get reveald if someone steps into ur trap
3) yes trapper rune makes it EASIER to keep up stealth but they are not NECESSARY to play that style.
4) nerfing the trapper rune wont fix the problem for u thta u have to fight ghost thieves, adding direct dmg to the thief traps does as they will get revealed then.

im not an english native speaker so if someone with better english would translate what i wrote to a more understandable english id be glad

if i stay perma invis without those runes i still wont get revealed by the traps.

Offair.2563:

No this thread is solely about the trapper runes giving eternal stealth to a thief

oh u also dont read my posts .. scroll up a bit. trapper thief doesnt need em runes to stay invis permanently. the change to make trapper thief visible is adding dmg to thief traps not removing the stealth from traps. tho if u only put a bit direct dmg on the traps they r mostly useless so they also need a little buff. but hey why do i have to write this over and over again for u not to understand it anyway?

maybe coz a condi nekro applies constantly conditions while a trapper thief doesnt? yes hes visible. but if u can fight condi nekros with the condi removes u have then u also can fight or ignore trapper thieves.

edit : if ur only remaining arguments r now about a line u call offtopic in my post- then i guess i cant be that wrong about trapper thief

apharma.3741:

Offair.2563:

yanoch.7051:

They should add a reveal on traps activation or traps circle on the ground like pistol field. I’m fine with any or both. I have no issue with pistol field since I can see it and I can somewhat counterplay and manage my risk/reward.

It used to be reveal on trigger when these runes got in game. Why they changed it and didnt took this perma stealth in account is way beyond me. But i have that much often with anets decisions so thats not new to me.

Yeah adding damage to the trigger of the traps or some of them will solve the problems. I don’t agree with adding an ICD on the runes though as its not a problem on the other class that can use them because their traps reveal them. It won’t be a problem on DH I dare say for the same reason.

It’s not really a nerf to thief and their stealth and it won’t affect other builds, it also doesn’t make the other builds/classes that use traps essentially useless.

if u only make the traps deal a minimum of direct dmg then ideed ghost thief wont happen anymore, but then u got to buff the traps to keep em viable. i am for ‘nerfing’ the ghost thief but i am not in for making the trap utilities on thief useless again (apart from shadow trap)

Offair.2563:

Like i said a couple times before, its not stealth or the thief class but the rune that gives them eternal stealth during fights, attacking stuff! That should never have been possible and yea i said i stood in those rings fighting thieves without these runes cause you see them pop every now and then which is not the case with the trapper runes.

You can come with a lot of suggestions how to counter but do you think everyone has infinite condi cleanse on very low cds and you think the thieves wont counter pressure?

Rework the runes – no need to change anything on thieves at all.

with just the invis of the heal and my shadow trap i have 1/3 stealth uptime +10% stealh uptime from steal. if i do my pistolfield with 4 heartseekers once i reveal i am 2 initative to max again => 13/15 uptime from pistolfield + heartseeker. so this is already ~ 130% stealth uptime n now u tell me the runes keep me stealthed – they make it easier no doubt but they r not needed. if i want to play a stronger trapper thief i would prob use other runes then trapper to add more conditions but it would have a higher chance to fail coz i’d need 4 heartseekers in my pistolfield and ppl might move in.

for ur condi cleanse i just fought perplex condi nekro with my mes – i dont have condi cleanse so i got rekt .. if i spent more in condi remove i lose alot dmg n would prob die anyway soo nerf condi nekro ? a trapper thief cant counter preassure. he has 4 skills for condi + dogge. so he does 2x(4x if pre set traps , 5 if lucky improvisation)needle trap where u need condi remove but thief has 24s cd on it. then he has steal which applies on my build like 10k poison dmg and 3,5k+1,2k per skill confuison on 26s cd…steal is pretty much enough for everyone without condi cleanse. then u might also have caltrops – just move out (tho 50% wait inside) 24s cd. now if i use em all on u i have over 20s cd for doing something. lets say till u get out of all my stuff 15s ..in that time i need to keep up stealth and u can just jump into there.

Offair.2563:

That is the main problem what you describe here, to actually get them out of stealth. OFcourse i stood in red rings etc but that was just because i saw the thief pop up here and there and thats not the case with the trapper runes. Not all classes have access to reveals or portals/blinks to get to the red rings asap.

so u only went to the circle when u actually saw the thief there? allways run into pistolfield of a trapper thief. u dont need to blink into the rings it just speeds it up coz the thief will 99% get reveald that way. its enough if u move in so he only gets 1-2 hearseeker into it and not 3-4.

Offair.2563:

I just cant believe people who actually defend this cheese. It should not have been around in first place. And saying thief has been nerfed so this is the only viable build is utterly bullcrap cause i still get killed by the “normal” builds, maybe adapt or ask those who run it how they do it?

i defend this build to that point that i say its not OP but yes it is kind of cheese as u only need to know how try not getting revealed wich is not hard as only very few ppl try to get u out of stealth,

i killed such a thief already with pistolwhip thief but took me that long, that i ignore em nowadays move on, maybe put a /laugh in chat and focus on other peeps.

i dont say its the only viable build i prefer to faceroll pistolwhip kill ppl thats alot faster but only works on 1 vs 1 sometimes 1 vs 2-3 but not more. i know this wont work in a duel but while roaming if u use ur shadow trap properly u can up to 20k with pistolwhip+steal+sigils from out of nowhere without ppl seeing u before they got stunned. but well as there r not many ppl anymore to roam solo and i dont want to run in group this build is well i might kill someone out a group but then got to run again

Offair.2563:

Stealth trap has been introduced waaaaay before this trapper rune and was a good indicator that stealth is idd broken, why else adding it? It is not like there are other traps around to counter other class mechanics.

oh well anti invuln trap would be nice if u have a look on up comming chronomance then stealth will be ur least problem.

Offair.2563:

No class should be allowed to have 100% stealth up time during a fight where they actually doing dmg, albeit through conditions. Yes permastealth without the runes is stil a thing but they get revealed ( read getting a penalty ) for attacking.

i agree with u on this point. but i disagree the demanded nerfes for either the rune or the thief. cause they way ppl want the thief/rune get nerfed noone will use these utilities. i think in Thief forum Raiden made a good proposal. he wanted the needle trap and trip wire to deal dmg, so the thief will get revealed but in return buff those traps a bit so they would be still worth taking. if i find his post ill try to figure out how to link it to here,

Odokuro.5049:

Put an Internal Cool-down on the Stealth received by the Rune, to not allow the Chain-stealthing going on, problem solved.

doesnt do much coz the rune’s stealth is just a small part of the stealth u get in total.
so u would just need to time em diffrent

Jayne.9251:

I have to work this morning for six or so hours … will you be on about 9pm your time?

Add me regardless, we can practice vs each other.

at that time ill go help my mum carry some furniture to her new house .. prob will be there later

no to have some condi remove and jump into that pistolfield till hes revealed and then preassure him coz he got 0 def in that moment apart from his thoughes/vita from equip. <- has been written into this forum like 100 times the last days and most ppl try to ignore it and keep yellin for nerf ..pls just try it.

that with 4 frieds is just .. a ghost thief can and will run solo mostly. while like most other ppl seem only dare to run in teams.

deso atm so we dont even need eotm ^^

well even if u make change for the traps to reveal the thief u wont see where the traps r if placed while in stealth. u do see my pistolfield : small red circle with a bit smoke inside.
then just move into the field because i use heartseeker to stack invis there – the trap invis is by far not enough for perma stealth. now if u stand in my pistolfield and i use heartseeker in it there is a good chance for me to hit u so i wont use heartseeker and make another pitolfield but if i only use 1 hearseeker per pistolfield i will have alot higher iniative cost so i wont be able to keep up stealth and if i am revealed i am pretty much dead. also if u have ports and blink into pistolfield i might be in heartseeker already and get revealed. fighting trapper thief is just about getting him out of stealth and then just cc him till he is dead, unless he runs shadow trap and has it set at the time he wont be able to escape. also if i get revealed. some ranger used a skill that i had taunt on me yesterday so i unwillingly attacked him , got revealed, sic em , 5 vs 1 nuke , dead. my kills/death with other thief builds is better as it mostly takes a while to kill ppl and as i said they r rarely alone and just rez each other or preassure me too much.^

edit: if ur on eu just pm me ingame if ur server is another color in wvw we can meet in EoTM and then u can see what happens if u keep jumping in my pistolfield – IMO best counter. there is also stealth disrupter trap but u souldnt be needed to use it.also if i see u placing it then its just wasted.

well for normal 1 vs 1 fights i prefer running other thief builds , atm i play trapper thief mostly when there r only roaming groups with 3+ ppl around, they ganking me if i play other builds all the time and when i switch to ghost thief i get hate pms that i was destroying wvw and should uninstall game n stuff. coz those ganker teams r mosty stupid enough to try killing a ghost thief while being too stuipid to do so – in 99 % of fights no one even tries to get into my pistolfield for example.

in the last days more trapper thieves r being played so ppl start QQn everywhere about this ‘OP’ build while its mostly a l2p issue, coz most of the fights i fight r 1 vs 3-5+ so u can rezz faster then i stomp and can allways preassure my pistolfield – ofc hoping for nerfing it and make em traps again useless ( apart from shadow trap i use that one while roaming in every build coz op 10k range port ) seems easier. especially as this build is indeed the most annoying build to fight against but annoiance doesnt mean its too strong.

also if people keep movin into ur blind field, it gets alot harder to keep up stealth.
but only very few ppl do that vs me.

BUG? : u can also cast hide in shadows and interrupt(dogge/weapon swap) it to spawn needle trap + get its stealth but keeping ur heal , u can activate that trap then more often(24s vs 30s) without having to reduce the heal cd. and well u keep ur heal for
when its needed

vespers.1759:

So for a trap ranger stealth literally is the only defense. I still don’t see why thieves are a unique snowflake here that deserve 100% stealth uptime.

if thief gets revealed from traps , u wont see trapper thieves. coz they wont be able to kill anything

but i still see trapper rangers – mostly with LB to get a knockback followed by rapidfire out of stealth. oke thats not really OP but good enough for ppl to use it.

Jana.6831:

A trapper thief is a condi thief?

yes he is.

tho he applies his conditions rather passive by setting traps u got to walk in.
compared to a thief that is constantly shooting at u, a trapper thief doesnt really preassure his oponent, coz its just a condi ‘spike’ then a rather long cd and then again but no constantly applied conditions.

Baldrick.8967:

Shame, if thiefs have to actually learn to play rather than rely on stealth and immob as crutches then cry when it gets hard to insta gib people down….those thiefs complaining are complaining as they are no longer able to have it all their own way, and have had easy mode for so long they have forgotten how to play a real fight.

apart from i dont get why u quote my post, i said in thief forum many ppl claim that thief is not a 1 vs 1 strong class atm. thats not about easy mode its about being able to fight another class played by an even skilled player.

Baldrick.8967:

have had easy mode for so long they have forgotten how to play a real fight.

whats a real fight for u? both come close in melee range and press 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,0 till one dies? every class has its mechanics and thief has stealth and some immobilize – u can remove it if u also give up ALL ur blocks and blinds on ur guard in return.

Baldrick.8967:

My issue is the immob from stealth from 2000 range away – unless you’re superman and can spot them coming while they are invisible there is little chance to time any sort of dodge and if steal hits your pretty much toasted or forced into using your heal before you can even move. Of course it’s not a problem if I’m on guardian…

actually with a bit of experience ull know when the thief will attack but if the thief is stealthed and u dogge his attack he wont get revealed. if the thief only used a short invis u can use ur aegis buffs to block his attacks till he gets revealed and then smash him , if he starts with shadow refuge on range as many do ..just walk away and keep an eye on ur aegis – if it gets removed use some blind n smash a bit around u. if i read ur description correctly u talk about very offensive thieves they should die in few of ur autohits. if the thief uses his steal u open on u through ur aegis , then he just used his best interrupt skill ( at least many trait it that way) and will have it on cd quite a while.

for ur l2p argument i beg u to play a thief for a while and pls make videos how u kill decent players with easy mode. coz i know a bunch of ppl who used to complain about thieves, then tried it them selves and shut up

last i want u to describe how a thief should fight without using stealth and immobilizes and still be able to have a fair chance in winning the fight. or u also want thieves not to port / dogge next coz its too op ?

i just faced a situation where that build really shines

if u stay in SM while it gets flipped, then add some trapps in way ppl sweepin for mesmers. as they try to ‘clear’ their new castle they want to kill u so they wont run from u . i just did that like half an hour and killed a few ppl doing so till they were like 8-9 sticking close together and started using stealth disrupting traps which is quite annoying with them hostile npcs when revealed so i left. cheers to u brave piken defenders, im sorry – but was fun (for me)

back to the build itself: i think if they nerf either runes or traps ppl will just play condi thief again and i prefer getting attacked by a trapper thief then a condi thief, coz condi thiefs do a lot more condi preassure (at least i feel so) and from trapper thief u can just walk on and ignore it. tho i think many ppl have a problem with letting someone alive that just has trolled em.. then group up trick him into a stealth disrupter trap and there u go – make sure the thief doesnt see where u placed the trap by placing it while in stealth

Woaden.9425:

But trapper runes seriously need to be changed from stealth to something else. Instant Stunbreak traps maybe? Condi clear traps? I dunno, not stealth. It already dilutes some of the exclusivity of stealth from Thief/Mes/Engi/Ranger, and can turn rangers in to something almost as annoying as trapper thief!

dont forget the upcomming dragonhunter