Guild Wars 2

SixVoltCar.5248:

So for 5 weeks I’ve been watching my server avoid the desert BL at all hours of the day, no matter who owned it. Whenever I’d call for help in /team, the response was always a variant of “desert bl sucks let em have it”.

Thats a problem on every server i have been on since HoT. I am not quite sure why, for roaming and ganking poor zerglings i think its a great map.

SixVoltCar.5248:

1- Travel times between points differ from other BLs

i personally like this. and if you know the map its not that long.

2- Shrines and extra cumbersome mechanics are in the way and they’re proving to not be used even in tier 1 (as anything other than xp for roamers)

i only dont like the new earth shrine buff as prior to the change every class had same advantage of being stealthed by the sand storm, thieves couldnt even use stealth attack with sand stealth so it was fair. now with being permanently revealed most classes dont even have to bother about that effect while classes / builds that invest in stealth got a disadvantage now (tho we already know that from stealth traps and as most people in WvW dont seem to be able to handle stealth its ok). also if your lucky and your enemey uses a reveal skill u can get rid of that buff as it overrides the effect

5-The lords are overpowered relative to the other BL’s

they are stronger, yes. but all soloable same as on other BL’s.

6-Wall segments are guarded by NPC’s

yup they can be annoying , if you want to build a cata solo right infront of the wall so you got to build it further away or run your supplies faster

SixVoltCar.5248:

I’m asking for gear in wvw to operate similarly (though not exactly) like that of spvp. Both because I like to change characters so I don’t get bored

i also change my characters/builds alot and i spent like 80% of the gold i get for changing armor stats. but i wouldnt want a system like in spvp as i like to mix my armor types for instance on my thief i think full marauder is too defensive and not dealing enough damage while going full berserk is a bit too squishy

SixVoltCar.5248:

I’m tired of protracted rants by fight guilds about how someone doesn’t have the right to take up a slot in WVW because they’re not ascended and infused and meta— which they currently have a point about in T1 at reset.

how do they know what gear you have ? i only got told not to join the map on reset cause i was on my thief and that commander didnt want thieves (i wouldnt have joined his blob anyway)- so i joined another map and listened to him wiping again and again

Bigpapasmurf.5623:

Yesterday i believe I did my very first instastomp (downed on 2nd hit and stomped with 3rd). I was proud but it takes great timing.

thats not instastomp. instastomp is if the person get ‘downed’ by your 3. hit but then it wont go into downstate at all it will just go from standing in front of you to stomped on the floor

Edit:
here i cut out 2 instantstomps from some old videos of mine, so you can see what i meant. currently mostly on freshair ele so i deleted most of my thief vids on my disk dont have better examples rdy atm. but you can clearly see, those did not have a downed state.

Quickstomp

if they drop into downedstate right before the 3. one hits it often wont work cause of that invulnerable frame they get, wich is pretty annoying.

i play with impact strike on my thief and as you can stomp people without them even having a downedstate(if you would go into downstate by last hit you get stomped instant instead of going into downstate) by timing it properly its perfect for outnumbered fights. But i also get whispered / mailed that im a cheater when doing so quite often. If you can time it for pin sniping its probably fun, didnt try it yet tho as i mainly roam on thief and dont blob.

most thieves (on EU) run basi venom tho, if more people would play impact strike then it might get a nerf, that you can only stomp people with it that are in downed state for instance. as currently it hits up to 7k on squishies on my thief so its likely to stomp targets that are low on HP.

also i play with surging rune on the thief to compensate, that i dont have unblockable cc from basi venom. that shockaura is alot more fun with PI + draining

yes nekro got enough corrupts, but they are random. its not counter the counterplay . its currently only luck if resitsance is saving you or not.
imo ppl should not rely only on resistance against condition dmg and soft cc but currently they can do just that. if resistance was only nullifing condition dmg id be ok with its current state but as it also let you ignore all soft cc, there should be some more option to corrupt or ripp resistance with a priority and not just random. i think there is only one sigil that does it and thats on interrupt so it wont work with fear, yey!

id say leave skill 1-3 as they are, as Stand the Wall above said #4 should transfer blind tho. and if you want to buff staff my proposal for skill #5 :

- add a resistance rip/corrupt on #5 BEFORE the fear part and maybe give some extra effects if resistance is ripped /corrupted like longer fear duration or other condi / boon corrupts. if needed increase the cd of the skill slightly.

im not sure how much resistance is a thing in pvp as i last played that gamemode like 3 years back, but at least in wvw resitance spamm is a thing in groupfights(revs ,durability ) and warriors. there it would help a lot, sure you have alot of corrupts but they are all kinda random so with bad luck u dont get the resistance off your opponent and all your soft cc and condi dmg is wasted. with a direct option to rip resistance guranteed, altho it will be reapplied fast you have a short time for your soft cc and condis to do their job.

since when you get revealed for 5 min? i didnt play my thief for like 4-5 days but i am 100% sure before that i only got marked not revealed, while stealthed that mark doesnt follow you fast enough so it was still possible to stealth cap stuff, yes some people search for 5 minutes but allways at the wrong places if you keep moving and most seem to leave after the mark drops, if they havent seen you only your mark.

i have seen a lot of thieves running with sword in WvW since patch, but they were not really a threat for my thief, maybe they do well against other classes / builds tho.

i use shadow trap when hiding in an enemy keep in order to stealth cap it. it saved me often when people are looking for me and i step into an anti stealth trap . ofc you need to know where you can use it.

for my purpose it would help alot if the cast time for the early port gets reduced a bit, it happend 2-3 times that i got killed by a zerg after stepping into an anti stealth trap and then got nuked down while casting the early port to shadow trap.

id say the early port could be changed to be a port like mesmers portal, but the LoS should remain for the Shadow Pursuit part, you should be able to see a thief comming if you are aware of your surroundings, yes i do know about that minimal animation the trap has when triggered but thats nothing compared to black pôwder ring for example.

TakeCare.3182:

• Stealth attack skills no longer have a 1-second recharge if they do not successfully hit.
• Stealth attack skills now have a 4-second recharge if they successfully hit.
  Shadow Arts
• New Grandmaster trait: Deception skills remove Revealed (from the user only).

first of all i dont think there is a reason to remove that 1s ICD. before that ICD i was just spamming 1, often even in the face.. that ICD helped me to time my backstab better and use it as intended and i have absolutly no problems landing it. so the ICD just prevents spamming.

i dont like your new grandmaster trait, you wanted thief not be annoying to fight against. now with that i can backstab and stealth instant again remain in stealth as long as i see fit and backstab again – trust me ppl will call that more annoyning that its right now were they got a 3s window to kill me.

and that 4s cd, even with your trait you wont land instant 2 backstabs if the 1s icd remains, unless ur opponents reaction is very slow so he would die in backstab + quikness AA in the same time.

TakeCare.3182:

• Shadow’s Embrace: This trait has been reverted to its previous iteration which reads “Remove conditions periodically while in stealth” (prioritizes damaging conditions).

i play with this trait, its already one of our best condition removing traits, no need to buff it even further. yes i also sometimes want it to remove annoying weakness but its probably for the best, that it doesnt do that.

TakeCare.3182:

• Needle Trap: This ability now does a small amount of damage.

in that other thief thread about heartseeker, there is a good explaination, why this wont fix the intended problem but will make the trap useless for any other condition build that is not permastealthing.

• Scorpion Wire: This ability has been made more reliable on uneven terrain.

still will remain one of the worst pulls ingame then.

• Basilisk Venom: This ability is no longer unblockable.

thief already has very low access to unblockable stuff.
with that trait thief would need other ways to preassure through blocks like a way to get an unblockable buff like the nek / war or rev. or other unblockable skills, for instance distracting daggers could be unblockable, tho im not sure if they are worth taking then as we still need our defensive skills.
if you want to bring it on par with DD one, make the first DD skill unblockable. then you have to choose between sharing that CC and combining it with other skills or an execute combo, without giving up ur chance to interrupt blocks.

so u want thief with every weapon to be as strong as he is with D/D ? as long as CnD is not unblockable u wont make me use that set.

babazhook.6805:

The ROOT cause is stealth stacking. It is not traps. It is not Trappers runes.

+ poeple not trying to preassure black powder circles. i just step into ghost thieves little red circles and p/p pew pew em down while interrupting their next attmpt to stealth with steal, works mostly.
as i do play a very stealthy thief with shadow arts and do stealth capping in wvw and so on, i do know from experience that very few people preassure those little red cirles with cc or by going inside. i see that like once in a month at most and i play alot.
most ppl just sit and wait or use some DMG skills on that pistolfield, as if that stopped me from keep stacking, while i recive reduced dmg, heal and condi remove from shadow arts i mostly dont even feel those hits, tho i am running full berserk.

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Ghost Thief builds don’t use Acro…… so your “solution” would do nothing for the op and the two-three builds that use Acro don’t utilize Stealth often or at all, just saying. Your “solution” would just make the Stealth designed class have worse Stealth than every other class in game that can access it.

ghost thief is just one issue mentioned by OP, he also said his problem is they have access to use both mobility and stealth. in wvw most its like half the thieves run with acro and the other half is playing pvp meta build, and only a few play something else.

and there are d/p acro thieves, staff ones and those d/d condi ones. staff and d/d indeed dont use stealth , but d/p ones do.

but you are right only thieves using shadow arts, ghost thief being one of them have alot of stealth and mostly only a bit mobility, unless u play shadowarts + dash and therefor not using all your cool shadow arts traits properly. but as we wont get a nerf on mobility side that easily, cause its needed for spvp and OP wants a nerf to the combination of mobility/dogging and stealth he can only hope for a stealth nerf as the other one is unlikely to happen. i just want if they give us a stealth nerf, that it only applies to thieves not using shadow arts, meaning i want what every they nerf in stealthing to be buffed into shadow arts. as i only see few people using it, it probably could use a reason to be used again. ( i use it for its condi remove mainly as it doesnt require your opponent to keep attacking you like DD one ).

saerni.2584:

Things I can see happening regarding thief:
(3) Adjustments to basi venom with regards to unblockable

you sure? i think they rather make the DD elite unblockable or only its first attack so you can actually use it. right now u kinda need basi venom for its being unblockable.

but yea as i mostly dont understand anets balance changes, they might take unblockable from basi venom, is also a way to make me use the DD elite

i see 4-5 enemy ghost thieves every week and sadly also a few on my server, if they are on the same map as i am i often run into random anti stealth traps .. thats the only issue i got
tho i think those anti stealth traps and supply removal trapps should not trigger for a single enemy but when 3 are near it ( ofc the trigger radius got to be larger), then they are also more effective against groups as they cant sent only 1 person to trigger them all.

but still the topic is about heartseeker cause of stealth stacking with d/p . reducing the smokefield duration to the half of it would also kinda fix stacking alot of stealth while its still enough to stack stealth as a group or for 2 leap finishers. but this way a thief will prob not be able to relay on stealth as its only defence and will have to build in annoyin dogging and running. currently at least in wvw(wich is the main issue of the OP) you can play with only stealth as defence and without mobility if you play with SA and bound thats what i do for instance.

thing is there is counterplay for stealth but there is no counterplay to superior mobility. so as your problem in OP is the combination of stealth + mobility, either demand some mobility nerfes wich we wont get easily as we need that for pvp or another option would be make shadow arts’ trait Meld with Shadows also apply to combos leap / blast in smoefield while nerfing the effect duration by 1 second. this way you push the thief more to use shadow arts if he wants to relay on stealth as defence. then he will lose either dmg for giving up DA or he will lose some dogges for giving up acro and lst option he just live with 2 sec stealth from combo so its not really worth stacking it only for a quick backstab that has to land on first try or he has a problem with backstab cd..
that way OP would be happy and my build in wvw wont get hurt

no you steal diffrent stuff underwater.
steal from warrior underwater if possible, it will be something like axe f1 on land

TwiceDead.1963:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Sounds like a Cele Ele that doesn’t know to play their class asking for unnecessary nerfs, nothing new.

You don’t think a ghost-thieves is a problem?

While I agree that the nerf suggested is completely unnecessary as there are miles better solutions (small physical damage to traps), I am just curious.

i dont think ghost thief is an issue, i kill most of them with my thief.

that long hearseeker animation already leaves you very vulnerable as you can only cancel it with weaponswitch, wich obviously not allways want to do. thats the reason why most thieves with dash run to a save distance before using that combo and bound thieves normally start stealth stacking with a bound.

also its a leap skill, as far as i know there is no leap skill ingame that needs a target, only some teleports like a mesmers ‘illusionary leap’ . so if you make heartseeker a teleport with that dmg and leap finisher , instant so you cant interrupt it, then im fine with it needing a target but then it should be kinda like the guards teleport on sword, so that u dont have to be in range to teleport towards that direction.

boolah.1325:

MUDse.7623:

boolah.1325:

Depends on what you want from the game.. if there were some rewards for being loyal , maybe ppl would think twiceb4 transfering

whats it you get from the game by punishing ppl to leave you ? ofc u can then longer troll ppl on your own server before they leave if thats what you like about WvWvW.

or do u just want to be rewarded for being to loyal to a server? you can get a title for it or whatever thats ok, but in every post of yours you also seem to want a punishment for leaving you that part i really dont understand.. if people dont want to play with you, you shouldnt try forcing them.

Hold up there mate.. I don’t want to punish ppl for bandwagoning, I want to REWARD players for being loyal!! big difference… so don’t get on such a high horse..

u obviously jump on the wagon and don’t want to miss out on something

reward for being loyal is allways something you will miss out when transfering server so sort of a punishment if the reward is great enough to really have en effect.
and no im not a bandwagoner, i switch servers from time to time thats true but i move away from servers if they get too crowded as i solo roam mostly, the last few weeks we had too few enemies tho since we got 2 new guilds on our server.. hope that will change soon or i might leave again of ..this last week i was already 90% of the time in PvE wich i normaly avoid completely – only cause we had no enemies fighting server Nr 14 and 15.

i dont think the linking system will be enough to create even population if people stopped transfering, at least not in EU with all the national servers thats why i think you will still facing same servers all the time.

Eval.2371:

MUDse.7623:

IMHO i think WvWvW needs ppl to transfer alot, if ppl all stay on the servers they are on now, you will be killing the same ppl all the time. that will get boring very fast.

it might be frustrating to some if u wake up and find ur self on a suddenly empty server, but hey then u got enough enemies to kill and will soon see diffrent servers. and after a while out of nowhere ppl you have never seen before will come to your server.

We have a system that can change that. If people don’t move as much, you actually use the linking server to shake up match ups.

if you are on the lower end populationwise of all the unliked servers, you have very low chance to face the ppl fighting on full servers or on the ‘fullest’ linked servers..

boolah.1325:

Depends on what you want from the game.. if there were some rewards for being loyal , maybe ppl would think twiceb4 transfering

whats it you get from the game by punishing ppl to leave you ? ofc u can then longer troll ppl on your own server before they leave if thats what you like about WvWvW.

or do u just want to be rewarded for being to loyal to a server? you can get a title for it or whatever thats ok, but in every post of yours you also seem to want a punishment for leaving you that part i really dont understand.. if people dont want to play with you, you shouldnt try forcing them.

i dont think the population would even out that way.
if every server had about equal population then ur right, you can have alot of random matches. but with such a system people will bandwagon at the beginning of it and then it will remain that way.

IMHO i think WvWvW needs ppl to transfer alot, if ppl all stay on the servers they are on now, you will be killing the same ppl all the time. that will get boring very fast.

it might be frustrating to some if u wake up and find ur self on a suddenly empty server, but hey then u got enough enemies to kill and will soon see diffrent servers. and after a while out of nowhere ppl you have never seen before will come to your server.

dunno how strong it is in pvp , but in WvW anyone that run out of reflects will melt in seconds to p/p dmg. that why i run it for a few month now on my 2nd set instead of shortbow – as i dont need to run away and i dont like to fight with shortbow. also added nice effect: kill ppl with p/p and they are sure to come back to you
i think p/p is at least in wvw fine now, with ricochet it would need some nerfs there , tho devs dont really care about WvW roaming balance anyway.

Fat Disgrace.4275:

Yeah with big dps numbers comes a lot of sacrifice which is why we have things like shadow step (which is also our main condi clear using meta build lol). Let’s see how this awesome high dps can face tank…say a keep lord, or even a tower lord? A thief won’t last long at all yet nearly all other class’s can solo Lords as power builds because of the self sustain from either passives or just boon over load, not to mention now that 4 stats armours are out, some of the above class’s can sit at 27-30k health, my thief has 18k with food oil and keep buff. I have seen a power warrior, a power ranger/ druid, power reaper, power mesmer and a power dh all solo lords, not seen an ele do it or a rev and definitely not a power thief. Only the Condi thief can solo a lord and that’s because it’s either the d/d evade spam or ranged p/d.

well tbh i kill with my full berserk thief all tower / keep lords solo , tho i got to change some traits or the weapon for some. for instance for an alpine / ebg tower lord i run DA , DD, crit strikes with that heal on crits .. then i stay on max melee range ( when u see that red bar at the bottom of your skill so ur out of range but still hit) and just spamm 1, the lord dies really fast that way as i reflect his volley shots with like 15k and the bleeding shots with 30k , while i am out of range for his CC hits as they are melee

i also stealthcap enemy keep/ towers alot by going inside with enemy and staying stealthed till buff is gone, unless a full blob is chasing me with anti stealth traps i mostly get every objective. cause if only few do that with traps at least in keeps and in any desert objective u get away with shadow trap 10k range out of combat port OP

thief is superior to any other class for solo roaming, as i can stealthcap anything with my thief and can kill as far as i know every build i encounter in WvW and get away if it get too much or even annoy larger groups to pick em one by one.

i do like some other classes as well especially revenant and reaper and run em when roaming in group or zerging but for solo thief is simply the best.

my FPS drops alot when recording but i could still try recording each lord fight(wont be a pleasure to watch tho) when i next time kill em if u dont believe me, that a full berserk thief can kill these lords all solo.

just tested it a few times, at the same target you did and had no issues.

mightyJAWS.3621:

Still hadn’t gotten my reward for completing Verdant Brink with my Warrior.
Some people say the problem was fixed but I didn’t get the reward.
So does that mean I have to complete a whole other map now?
If so, I find it very unfair since I now have to work harder to gain some of the latest masteries on top of gathering a group to complete the hard hero points of the other maps.

Please see this through..

dont think this is intended as u need all 4 HoT maps for a gift of maguuma so if u get reward from the other maps but not VB u can trash the reward

btw also finished VB with my reaper today and no reward, he has also 100% tyria.

UmbraNoctis.1907:

The + condi duration food was nerfed too, so the food change can’t be the (main) reason for your problems …

yes that food was nerfed too and there is a new stat combination to increase condi duration but none that decreases it..imo thoughness should either reduce condi duration or condi dmg.

its not hard at all to cap camps.
the only issue with solo roaming on the new maps is that ur solo roaming and the other not. i did roam alot since the patch and on the new borderlands i allways had to fight 1 vs 2if they r thieves/mesmers or 5+ .. and a majority of em play condis now.

Infusion.7149:

The one thing a solo player can do well is taking out the sentries before a group rolls through. On YB we typically have a single thief or mesmer take out the sentry , marking only one person THEN have the larger group roll through. That way the enemy sees only one person when you have 10-15 people.

not very clever if u only have 1 thief on the map doing so u need multiple thieves to take down more then one sentry at a time or its still obvious where u guys r

i also had dragonhunter recipe from daredevil, didnt figure where to get em runes so bought em 9g each

Jana.6831:

@ MUDse: Were any of those roamers from KISS, probably? No offense, but AG just got a giantic influx of lower ranked servers but:

I’m currently on deso and what I see is just as good/bad as everything I knew from bronze – silver tier EU. I just defeated 4 viz silver ranks after another; guard, ele, warrior and something I don’t know. As a D/D thief. But I do think that lags might have helped with that and the fact that a D/D thief is a precious little unicorn which people haven’t met yet.

yes 2nd fight the reaper was from KISS – dont get tho what about em?

thats point there r bad players on every servers wvw and they r the majority.
if i as a bad thief can just spamm other same bad ppl to death without em hittin me..then ye i think i dont need buffs.

bliss.4305:

I’m pretty sure killing Aurora Glade plebs don’t constitute to the viability of Daredevil. The fact that you’re landing all those Vaults isn’t even suprising, its a testament to how bad your opponents are.

You actually want recognition for pulling off 1v1 against those joystick users? Here’s your cookie. You wouldn’t last beyond your spawn if you were on Deso.

o/

i already admitted that the opponents were not good n me neihter , no i dont want a cookie or recognition, if i wanted that i would record a week or so and make a short vid out of it as u sadly dont face many really good ppl in wvw. if i meet once every 3 weeks a good opponent in wvw where i need a stronger build for 1 vs 1 ..i really dont mind.

actually i was on deso 1-2 weeks ago n i got pretty far from spawn with pistolwhip spamming – 0 skill high reward coz there r tons of even worse players then me rdy to give me some loot.

but hey as u r there and have those super strong opponents on ur wvw maps , pls make a video for me how u get rekt 24/7 only coz ur class is to weak n not of personal mistakes to prove me wrong

Sagat.3285:

Your logic implies that DD is an upgrade so why not nerf the upgrade?

nope it doesnt imply that DD is a upgrade, i said DD is fine in wvw roaming. so a spesific build for a specific situation. problem in this game is that many balancing changes r made for all aspects of the game so it would also affect a roaming DD. => demand buffs that dont affect a roaming DD or demand specific buffs or changes or what ever allways in the context u want it buffed.

Sagat.3285:

CiS back at master and SE revert are not buffing DD.

i was not talkin about CiS or SE mine was a general statement that IMO a DD is fine for roaming in wvw atm.

as this is now in thief forum n not in pvp forum anymore..
i do think a daredevil in the right hands playing em is fine in WvW roaming , dunno ’bout spvp or pve.
i actually didnt want to play thief after HoT launch but kitten many ppl say thief is superbad atm i couldnt resist but checkin it myself, so i upgraded my thief to daredevil n roamed a few h n then recorded every encounter i had within 30 min roaming. i made alot of mistakes (like just using my steal at start of fights instead as an interrupt and to get the additional dogge/initative). but i do think if a good thief (im experienced but not good ) would be playing in my stead he would have won every fight but the last one. ( ofc the opponents were not good, but well thats actually what u meet in wvw)

i think if u buff thief and so the daredevil a good daredevil could become OP in wvw roaming(not that it was balanced anytime). so in my opinion u rather need to cut down other classes to get the thief on their level again.

edit: i would like to be able to use staff skills + shadowstepping skills -somehow doesnt work for me

most of the people who really would like to play this new map already left the game like 3-2,5 years ago. and ppl who dont want to use their brain when going into wvw and just want to blindly smash enemy zergs ..they remained. well u got ur guildhalls if u want ‘open’ fights to just smash ur heads.

anet is not destroing wvw they just want u to play it how it was desgined , people didnt care for ppt n if they win the week so anet gives us a map on wich u have to fight more strategic to hold it and dont mindlessly blob ur enemy away. oh well most ppl still wont care for tick n if they win the week as the coverage and population of the servers is far from balanced.

PS: once ppl realize that map is not designed for pure blobbing u will be able to roam /smalscale there very well

u could prob glide into alot of towers/keeps

Chips.7968:

As I said way back in this thread (seeing as I main thief and have played trapper build) – traited, built, food’d up – that’s a heal which can do 10k condi damage to the opponent.

i also did play thief long enough tho lately i wouldnt say i main it anymore and i also did play trapper build for a few days.
yes i do aggre with u that a heal skill should not do 10k condi dmg, but a condi thief (doesnt matter what condi build) imo has less condi preassure compared to most other condition builds on other classes. so imo thieves should recive more options to apply contions for example with some of their weapon abilities in return of removing that trap.

but hey as i dont really play thief anymore ..ur the thief who has to play with it and less condi preassure of urs is better for me

Johje Holan.4607:

If you set your WvW build to include the elite spec does the weapon still drop?

nope

Argos Helios.4965:

The maps are too big. They should have kept the alpine borderlands and had just one instance of desert and replace EB. As it is in tier 7 its a total ghost town. I roamed for 1hr on release day and didn’t see a soul.

i actually do find ppl here considering the reasons ppl stay away atm : HoT / laybrinth.. i do see more then i expected

removing that trap from heal also affects any condi build not just perma stealth so what do u want to give the thief in return?

at least u can select ur elite spec in wvw , i cant altho i have unlocked it.

edit: oh i need to put it as 3rd spec.

Gotejjeken.1267:

Just make it so thieves can’t use trapper runes. Problem solved!

intresting suggestion, tho i doubt they will do that coz then ppl will demand stuff like : make it so ele cant use cele stats and so on.

UmbraNoctis.1907:

snip

i actually did wrote answers to all ur pragraph but that will lead to nowhere again.
so ill just cut the problem down as i did 1-2 pages ago.:

ghost thief is not OP , nor is the rune.
but fighting against a ghost thief is very annoying. most ppl in this thread that made suggestions how to ‘fix’ this annoying game play demanded changes in terms of reveal or higher cd / less stealth without suggesting buffs in return so they r just demanding nerfs for a build that is not OP.

changes that were suggested so far:
1) reveal on tripwire/needle trap but in return increase the conditions inflicted by them (Raiden)
2) move the main condi preassure from utilities to weapon skills so its worth using ur weapon to attack ur opponent in a condi build and not just steal + traps. (Me)
3) make traps to be triggered actively by the one who placed them and reveal if hits an enemy doing so (cant remember who suggested that)

all suggestions for chaging got still problems :
1) a reveal on triggering the trap will cause that the thief is unable to use his hidden weapon attack. a condi thief that is also playing visible will play with a pistol mainhand in one of his weapon sets and so he will want to use the stealth of the trap to get his sneak attack on the enemy for extra bleeds. a reveal controlled by the oponent who steps into the trap would disable the thiefs class machanic of stealth attacks.
2)problem here the traps will prob be useless again apart from OP shadow trap
3) oh well combined with 1) it might be an okeisch solution. but for me ..i wouldnt call em trap anymore then. more a controlled , delayed aoe. so its just a worse aoe as u r not so flexible with the position of it.

maybe on page 20 this thread will have a good suggestion on how we can change the thief for this build to be less annoying ( as changing the rune wont do much coz thief still can stay stealthed during that fight)

sadly altho a majority agrees that this build is not OP most of this thread is about why and how one can / cant / will / will not / did / did not get rekt by a thief. stop trying to tell why u get rekt by a non OP build and instead make suggestions how to change (not nerf!) skills/traits what ever to make it a challanging but not purely annoying to fight build.

diffrence is tho that a pu mesmer still has alot more defense when revealed then a ghost thief.

maybe they can change em like the wvw ranks ..so an improving title depending on how many u killed..like every 2,5k another one. i did not focus on killing dollies (did not only play wvw ) and i also had a longer game break and i got over 10k dollies.. so ye 2,5k is nothing for someone who wants to ‘work’ for it

UmbraNoctis.1907:

As i wrote, not all stealth skills are counterable. Steal, HiS and stealth from traps are not counterable (yes i know, theoretically you can avoid steal and interrupt HiS and the traps, but good luck avoiding an instant skill and interrupting an invisible target).

if the thief wants to hit u with those traps he will have to set em around u and as u correctly said they can be interrupted, all trapper thieves i met with my mesmer i could just interrupt their setting trap with chaos storm and they were revealed shortly afterwards.

if the thief is putting them traps down further away coz he just tries to escape ..let him escape lol ..i also cant chase a revenant if he has enough targets to port to or those usain bolt warriors.

UmbraNoctis.1907:

So how much stealth can a thief get from those skills? I don’t know, if SA trait affects the stealth duration from the rune, so i assume 3 sec per trap. So 9 seconds from traps (2x needle + 1 other, usually shadowtrap – potentially more from improv, but lets ignore this, because it is too random), 3 from steal, 4 from HiS, total of 16 sec stealth. 4x HS into smokefield adds 12 sec. During this combo the thief is “vulnerable” for about 4 seconds. As long you are near enough and/or have access to aoe cc, and the thief still has to make mistakes (hitting you with HS/getting hit by cc).

as u can only stack 5x stealth the thief wont do hs into smokefield right after the other stuff so u got time to get rid of the immob. then when he can stack stealth with the combo u can preassure the filed by going into there as he has only few seconds of stealth left at this point. so to remain in stealth will cost him alot iniative if he only manages to put 1 hs into that field and still is very risky if the oponent has higgh mobiity to get into ur field fast.

and getting hit by cc or haveing to avoid ur cc is not a mistake of the thief its a good move of the one fighting the thief.

yes u might not be able to take down such a build in 5 seconds but u can take it down or force him to retreat.

UmbraNoctis.1907:

So for 4 seconds every ~ 28 seconds the thief has to be careful. If he gets revealed somehow, you have to lock him down with cc/immob and burst immediately. Otherwise he can SB5 away, and/or stealth again after 3 seconds. And if he uses shadowtrap to port away, you can do absolutely nothing.

a thief will likely put at least 2 traps below u assuming he put shadow trap on range to escape. as each of them can be interrupted u can interrupt the thief at the 2nd trap or if he uses steal first u might interrupt him even on the 1. trap. so no he is not only vunlnerable when he is doing his somkefield + hs. and well with that lockdown and burst..every thief can just get away if u dont lock em down and they want to get away.

yes if he uses A GOOD PLACED shadow trap he will be instant out of combat. sadly u get stuck like everywhere with that trap. but if u just look into older posts of mine in this thread i already confirmed that a good shadow trap is an OP ‘oh-kitten’ button, thats why i used it in wvw in any thief build.

UmbraNoctis.1907:

Now, i don’t think ghost thief is really op, because it is possible to stay alive/run away with enough condi remove (+ reliable immob remove) and careful playstyle. I just think, being able to attack and kill while being permanently stealthed is terrible game design. Creating a class/build, which can’t work otherwise, is terrible too …

thing is ppl want a nerf to ‘fix’ a bad mechanic thats prob one of the main reasons this thread is going to no where. u cant demand a nerf for something that is not OP. u can demand a change of the mechanic tho .. i think one page earlier i said the best option to ‘fix’ this is moving the condi preassure from utilities / passives to weapon skills, cause atm they dont offer enough condi preassure for the risk of getting reveald while fighting wich happens when u use ur weapon skills.

UmbraNoctis.1907:

Edit: Invulns/immunities are (mostly) balanced because of low duration/long cd – some doesn’t even allow to attack (f.e: elixir s, mist form). I’m not a fan of the passive ones, but that’s an other issue. The only exception is diamond skin – which i don’t like, because again – perma anything (powerful) is not good.

stealth skills r also mostly balanced coz of their duration/cd. and even stacking multiple to get a long stealth duration is not a problem because if u do anything lethally dangerous u get reveald..as u already agreed to a ghost thief is not as op as he would kill anyone with condi removes and any other build with stealth gets reveald at some points in the fight.

and now for the ‘make thief visible when u step into a trap’ guys:

if u die to 4-6x needle trap + stealth from the condi preassure..then revealing a thief wont do anything. just place 2x needle + shadow trap on a gateway ..go faaar away and u dont even need to be stealthed where u wait (10k range – thats 2x portal range). then when someone steps into it welll u get 3s reveal if u were stealthed or not ..then use shadow persuit from shadow trap(carefull with bad computer..coz over 5k range u get a loading screen) to appear next to ur vicitm stealthed and place another 2 ..well u get revealed at that point but u should stand some seconds with dire equip. after that reveal use steal and move along / stomp ..

the only thing that changes with that is people who can already ignore u easily (coz they have tons of condi remove) can preassure u now. but people who do have a problem with those builds coz they die will still die. so its not a fix ..its more a ‘i cant kill him, he cant kill me , he is annoying, so let me kill him anet’. also it will increase the amount of insults the thief will get pmed with coz they get a chance to get his name.

so pls stop posting : ‘add direct dmg to traps and its fine’ coz if u only add a bit direct dmg to em its not a good ‘fix’

UmbraNoctis.1907:

Stealth skills (at least some, not even all) can be countered, but not the invisibility itself (with the exception of engi with lock on, and stealthtrap – the latter is not very practical during fights though). And no, guessing/randomly spamming skills is not a reliable counter.

in order to keep up invisibility u need to use stealth skill which u agree can be countered.
invisibility itsself.. well i also cant counter invuln or immunities not even with a special trait like lock on for stealth.

Pikka.6023:

Invisibility is a bad mechanic. Trapper runes just exacerbate that to the extreme. Arguing about what counters are available, or how powerful builds are or aren’t is completely missing the point. Game play with a notable amount of stealth suffers for everyone, regardless of whether it’s balanced or not in terms of efficacy and power.

Stealth is poor design, lazy design really. The original designers when they unveiled stealth for the thief were met with an outcry, rightly so, that it would be bad for the game; they in turn assured that it would not be the primary mechanic for the thief (or any profession), and it would be a short, tactical, a minor part of combat at most.

That design intention was completely forgotten by time the game released, and has only gotten worse. Fighting several professions involves constant, tedious (and in a crowded fight, difficult) retargeting as they pop in and out of stealth. Win or lose, it’s not fun.

yes ppl demanding rework of stealth for like 3 years now. Anet should be aware that many ppl dislike their stealth system. but as it is going on for 3 years and would require a lot of work to be done and redesign most of the classes u cant expect that to happen soon.

so yes it has to be discussed if this build is balanced and just annoying or OP as some ppl claim. coz we can rather expect minor changes to some skills/traits/runes or what ever then a complete rework of the stealth mechanic.

at the end ur statement contains only that u dont have fun playing or playing against stealth builds ..so they r annoying to u or what ever – babazhook.6805’s last post explains pretty well why this cant be a reason for a change.

P.S: ppl being able to fight me 5 vs 1 is also a bad mechanic ..pls fix it

Agemnon.4608:

MUDse.7623:

Endless Truth.3074:

what do thieves need to be more balanced in the eyes of all the nay-sayers and dont say more dps cause a race for whoever has the highest dps stick is gunna break the game.

id like to have an unblockable buff on my thief dunno tho on what it should trigger to be usefull but not op

An elite skill on a 90 second cooldown perhaps?

well for me it would be enough as i play mainly wvw and while roamig the encounters r not as frequent as in pvp.

but it would be weak compared to reaper for example 4-9s unblockable on 23-35s cd or the signet of might a warrior has .. also revenants phase traversal with no cd – unless the skill does something really cool apart from unblockable

Endless Truth.3074:

what do thieves need to be more balanced in the eyes of all the nay-sayers and dont say more dps cause a race for whoever has the highest dps stick is gunna break the game.

id like to have an unblockable buff on my thief dunno tho on what it should trigger to be usefull but not op