Guild Wars 2

Bottom line is it needs to take less supply, some form of movement boost since it’s the only mobile siege weapon, and should not be able to be blinded poisoned or bled on top of a couple more conditions. Vulnerability is the only condition that comes to mind that makes sense, and stun.

Draygo.9473:

Seige golems are not effective alone.

however, they are completely overpowered in groups.

I wasn’t alone, but we were out numbered. My golem contributed less than I do outside of it. They aren’t overpowered at all. See the original post on how to stop one.

Turukano.3106:

As far as I understood about Golems:

Very effective vs Gates
Not very effective vs Players

That’s the idea for using it but it’s so slow never made it to the gate after we got spotted.

Why the hell can these siege machines be blinded, bled, and poisoned? It was the worst thing I’ve wasted money on in game so far. Took 5 siege golems to make the omega one and I got shut down by a single blind, used my massive aoe fire and had literally 30 misses roll across my screen and never got to touch a zerg of people surrounding me.

The mats for omega needs to be lowered and the weapons need better defense, the shield on #3 for omega is completely useless and lasts for less than a second with around a 20 second cooldown.

Well we had to verify it was a bug first, but anyways final bump. I’m sure they’ve noticed this by now.

Final Bump just to make sure the mods don’t overlook this,

I agree those seem like good baselines but feedback is very strong. You can’t say it’s overpowered because there’s a simple counter, walking outside of it. I know not to blow my ranged load when it’s on me from experience.

Bump and added the continuation of the original post as a link.

One last bump for mod attention. I’d prefer not to have 10 traits go unused, even if it’s not the ones I have listed we all know there are more.

Shadow Arts

VII. Power Shots (Shortbow & Harpoon damage increased by 5%) -
Not enough to be appealing, add reducing initiative costs OR increasing condition duration on the abilities of these two weapons would help help a ton since they both have a good amount of conditions. Not many people will go down SA cause they want to increase their damage unless they plan on using shadow refuge with the might buff.

VIII. Hidden Thief (Stealing grants you 2 seconds of stealth) -
Well this feat is simply not worth using a trait for IMO, this is much better off as a innate ability in shadow arts perhaps tied in with the 25 point feat that gives might. However I am sure there are those who use this feat and defend it’s usefulness because it’s one of the more reliable sources of stealth so this one is iffy.

Trickery

X. Ricochet (Pistol attacks have a 5% chance to bounce) -
Needs a drastic increase, I would say more along 50% chance if you actually want this to be used. 5% is much to random and we already covered that it’s not something thieves want, if you want random I highly suggest you play a Mesmer. It has stealth and melee weapons also.

XII. Sleight of Hand (Stealing dazes your target for 1 second) -
Obvious to anyone that this is not good, for one dazing is simply a silence and silencing someone for 1 second is negated by a single dodge roll from them. This daze either needs to be increased to 2.5 – 3 seconds, or leave it at one second but add a 2.5 second immobilize to the 1 second daze. This way you manage to get at least one good hit in. If all of this sounds too overpowered then simply move this feat out of our third tier, it hardly qualified as a first tier trait.

Side Note: Looks like the instances of shadow refuge don’t stack as quickly as they used to also. Takes about 9 seconds to reach 10 might now with the 25 point feat in SA.

I didn’t reserve like I should’ve or else the post would have been longer but I can’t let it die without saying how awful the Shadow Arts change to Leeching Venoms was in beta. If you are running a venom build and you have 4 venoms up, you hit someone with any attack and all 4 will proc yet you’ll only get healed once.
The heal really isn’t good enough for it to go off one time and I’m not going to spread my venoms out over a 4-16 second period(depending on if you want to use all the charges on the first one before activating another) when they can all be used at once.

That would make sense, still needs afixin though.

Bump in hopes of a Mesmer mod answering, need to know if these bugs have been recognized as such and if the tool tips are incorrect or the durations are just lower.

Skills affected

Veil
Null Field
Portal
Decoy (The Stealth)
Feedback

Also when getting the Temporal Enchanter(Glamor skills last longer) trait that tooltips should update.

Yea it seems I did overlook that, my apologies.

That’s pretty dirty of them if it is the case, hopefully mods start replying on these sort of topics sooner than later.

Thadren Calder.1397:

Stalking through the city at night…

Looks cool, which hood is that where did you get it? If you don’t mind me asking…

Curious as to when it’ll actually benefit us to use resources in WvW, these every day resets on Darkhaven are a little discouraging and as a result it seems like less people are heading out there.

When will the 2 week match ups begin?

Are these timing swith the glamour lasting longer feat or without? I know Portal doesn’t last 15 seconds.

Right they need to do something about that, my guess is their solution will be to lower the tool tips rather than raising the durations to match them like they should.

Devildoc.6721:

Mange.8324:

Devildoc.6721:

Combo Critical Chance is probably better for PVE than flanking critical chance trait, at least if you’re solo where mobs are almost always facing you, but there are better traits overall in the line such as quickness and executioner (it also benefits sword/pistol as the main attack you use in sword pistol is your dual attack anyway).

Also random is very fun. It’s one of the more fun aspects of the thief class. That’s what makes steal fun, you don’t know exactly what you’re going to get when you step in, and sometimes it can be something amazing like an axe or ectoplasm. When your quickness trait procs, that’s random, and when it happens right before an unload or pistol whip or death blossom that’s pretty exciting.

The first part could be true but with immobilize and CnD I usually end up behind the mobs, even then im not going to spam flanking strike on them or use DB for the chance to crit.

In PvP you know exactly what you’re going to get, ectoplasm seems like the worst to me. Having variation makes it fun and the fact that it teleports, at least for me. I could live without the random chance in PvE but even then it’s a couple of set things based on the mob you steal from.

Getting all the boons at once is the worst?

for me the worst stolen skill is shoot rifle (due to self knockback/stun), and use staff

Most of the rest are useful for stealth, condition causing, boons/heals, or cc, or damage in the case of axes.

Woops I meant that acid goo you throw on the floor, ectoplasm is great. It even gives aegis lol

Devildoc.6721:

Combo Critical Chance is probably better for PVE than flanking critical chance trait, at least if you’re solo where mobs are almost always facing you, but there are better traits overall in the line such as quickness and executioner (it also benefits sword/pistol as the main attack you use in sword pistol is your dual attack anyway).

Also random is very fun. It’s one of the more fun aspects of the thief class. That’s what makes steal fun, you don’t know exactly what you’re going to get when you step in, and sometimes it can be something amazing like an axe or ectoplasm. When your quickness trait procs, that’s random, and when it happens right before an unload or pistol whip or death blossom that’s pretty exciting.

The first part could be true but with immobilize and CnD I usually end up behind the mobs, even then im not going to spam flanking strike on them or use DB for the chance to crit.

In PvP you know exactly what you’re going to get, ectoplasm seems like the worst to me. Having variation makes it fun and the fact that it teleports, at least for me. I could live without the random chance in PvE but even then it’s a couple of set things based on the mob you steal from.

Namely in PvP I can see it interrupt, but the daze comes and goes so fast that it doesn’t flash once. It’s def not a second long from what I’ve seen.

Also it’s not quite the same issue but I notice a lot of things keep the mesmer revealed when trying to stealth with Decoy, Veil, or Mass invis. It’s a little clunky feeling at times. I’ve run through my veil 3 times in a row without using a ability and never stealthed.

Tigger.8035:

@ hidden killer

Play norn thief outside of sPvP.

Snow leopard has an abuseable skill that gives them stealth on short cool down.

You won’t need precision… just damage. watch stuff die

I don’t get what you’re saying, do you mean team with a Ranger that is using the snow leopard in the open world? Even with a short cooldown it’s going to be a minimum of 3 seconds before you stealth again thanks to revealed. Could be useful but doesn’t sound like a trick I’d do personally. My crit chance is solid already.

I don’t think that’s the case, it doesn’t explain portals description and the daze interrupts but never appears which means it’s not a daze at all and more of just a interrupt. It lasts for like .2 secs and obviously they can’t round a skill to 0 but I find it hard to believe they’d put a second knowing it’s nowhere near that long.

If that was the case most of the abilities need to match the numbers on their tooltips anyways, for balance purposes.

icbat.3019:

I don’t want to comment on most of this, as I largely don’t care about ‘nerfs and buffs’. But this point drives me bonkers:

Random isn’t fun

This is flat wrong. Random is very, very fun. It’s why slot machines exist, and in fact dominate most casinos. It’s why Roulette and Craps exist, despite eating money from the players.

Random is quite fun. Please don’t go on a witch-hunt to get fun taken out of the game because you don’t find it useful. As has been pointed out, there are plenty of other choices in that exact slot that you’d rather take, so please take them and let scrubs like me to take our “bad” but fun choices.

He said it’s “Never good, and rarely fun”. Not really much to touch here since you got his quote wrong to an extent that the reply isn’t really relevant but you are the “rarely” as you seem to recognize so there’s nothing for you to defend. lol

Also as I mentioned the thief community made it clear that “random is not appreciated”. Hence why when you steal from someone now you get the same thing in PvP.

Shadows embrace is so much better than the bleed + regen even if you only have 1 stealth skill. No one is limited to not being able to stack bleed in a 45 second period, you’re barely buying time with the feat as it is. Maybe if it remove the 5 stacks on top of giving regen it would be more appealing and regen really isn’t that strong at all. One of the weaker boons imo, wouldn’t waste a trait point to give 5 seconds of regeneration. It can work well with shadow refuge since it repeatedly stacks you with instances of stealth but that’s it. Blinding powder is pretty much your only other possible team stealth unless you manage to get a entire team to stand inside of a smoke screen and cluster bomb it.

They seem to be lower than all of the durations say, Decoy and Portal come to mind.
Decoy says 3 seconds but when it actually works the duration has always started at 2 seconds for me and that’s exactly how long it feels.

Portal gives you 60 seconds to use it, that duration is accurate, but once you create the portal it says it lasts 20 seconds but it really lasts about 6.

Also sometimes my daze shatter can clearly land on a person and I don’t see a second worth of dazing as a debuff on their bar. Just a lot of the durations described in skills seems lower and as far as the trait that makes glamor skills last longer, it actually seems like you need that feat just for them to reach the duration that’s originally on the tooltip. Anyone else notice or feel these things?

Rason.2573:

Was expecting the forums to be full of insightful comments, but they don’t even get this right. Retaliation does not reflect a portion of damage. It does a base amount of damage depending on the person being struck’s power. http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Retaliation

This, pretty sure condition damage doesn’t retaliate for each tick but only when it’s applied.

Name: Mange
Server: Darkhaven

Having a conversation with Trahearnne (sp?)

Never imagined that I’d run out of space lol woopsie, should’ve reserved. Oh well. Yea Assassins reward is a little lack luster along with any of our regeneration feats as thieves tend to not have much healing power. Stealthing allies and giving regeneration is weak, gaining regeneration to counter bleed is a good idea but only if the cooldown on the ability is lowered to around 10 seconds.

SwickHobo.5096:

Here’s my list of under performing traits with suggestions on how to fix them:

Improvisation- Random is never good, and rarely fun, especially when there’s a chance that you’ll get no effect. Should Imo be replaced entirely or refresh two different utility types that way there’s never a chance to miss entirely.

Potent Poison- Just seems weak. Would be much better if it made bleeds last longer, as poison is already incredibly easy to stack, and since it stacks in duration more is rarely needed. Change to 25% longer bleed duration

Corrosive Traps- As you said its very underwhelming. I believe the idea is to KD or immobilize someone with a trap, then spike them down. But this is highly unrealistic and 5 stacks isn’t enough to make a huge difference. I suggest you combine this trait with Master trapper.

Back Fighting- Horrible trait, In PvE your gonna die as a thief if you fall into the downed state anyway, since they automatically follow you when u tele away or continue to attack you while stealthed (which is incredibly annoying) and in PvP you’ll be stomped before you can make any use of it. Replace entirely or combine with Concealed defeat.

Hidden Killer- I actually love this trait quite a bit, but i personally feel it would be better off in Shadow arts tree. This way you could run a 4% crit chance build but still be able to crit from stealth. Rather then having 50%+ crit base then using an entire grandmaster trait for a 50-30% upgrade every ~3 seconds. It also doesn’t fit well with Sidestrike.

Concealed Defeat- see back fighting

Shadow’s Embrace- I’d like to see this changed to losing a condition when u ENTER stealth. While waiting 3 seconds to remove that crucial 15 bleed stack, you can very often die. Also in a PvP setting, stealthing for 3 seconds while guarding a point is enough time for them to neutralize the point..

Master of Deception- Average trait should have a secondary effect tho. Maybe gain one initiative every time you use a deception, or gain a ~3 second fury buff each time you use a deception. (as most of them are stealth types this would give you higher “backstab potential”

Fleet of Foot- Think it should be Cripple and Chilled, Thieves are known to be extremely mobile and it would make since if you could remove both of the “slowing” effects, especially since its the accrobatics tree.

Sleight of Hand- For a grandmaster trait it seems a bit weak, i understand its for an interrupt, but often KD’s and stuns last longer then one second, so should this. 2 sec KD, or a 2 1/2 second daze.

Trickster- Needs a secondary effect. reducing the CD by X seconds per trick would be kinda cool.

Going to add some of these really good points to my post, but Shadows Embrace does do that last I checked. It should remove 2 conditions one at the start and one at the very end if you have 3 second stealth.

Vargs.6234:

Flanking strike is pretty terrible compared to our other options. I don’t know why someone would use S/D. And having any weapon setup be bad isn’t so great when we already have such an incredibly limited weapon selection.

It’s actually not that bad, my hard counter to heart seeker spam infact. It’s ability to land on a moving target is a little iffy though, it seems to evade me away from the enemy rather than behind them.

Ragnel.5218:

I think Furious Retaliation is pretty good. Obviously in a fast paced pvp environment 45 seconds is a long time. But it’s a solid 20% crit for 10 seconds. Combine that with things like executioner (20% more dmg when target below 50% hp) and it looks a lot more appealing, don’t you think?

I cleared up the perspective a little, I play both PvE and PvP and have done dungeons and completed my story quests a while ago. I think of it mostly from a PvP perspective though so you were right about that.

In comparison to everything else along the first tier of Critical Strikes I heavily disagree, if I wanted crit I’d be much better off with Side Strike (flanking crit chance 7%) in PvE and PvP. Smoke screen while downed is great. If you are running the signet one shot build then Signets of power is also good.

lethlora.1320:

Thieves have the most hilarious harrassment downed state in the game for PvP. I regularly see foes attempt to finish me three times before they finally get a chance to actually do it between teleporting and stealthing while downed.

Most classes are just totally useless “dohh you got me” stuff.

Though, yes, the trait isn’t very good for PvP.

Yea we can stall for a long time but it depends on your goal, I rather not sit there and teleport away and stealth if death is invertible. I’m not actually going to escape or win the downed fight unless a teammate is nearby and it only takes a hour of playing to realize that when the thief stealths they are in the same spot and you should AoE it. Our 3 is worse than any other classes, save for engineer, if you ask me.

This post is from a PvP perspective yes but it’s still relative to PvE.

Now let me start this post off by saying by no means are we weak, we are a strong profession in our area which is dealing damage and escaping. That doesn’t mean we don’t have broken or nearly useless feats which every profession does, I’d just like to shed some light on them.

Deadly Arts -
I. Back Fighting (50% damage while downed) -
Lets face it the thief has the weakest downed state in the game as far as damage or surviving goes, due to the complaints during beta about how often thieves managed to escape. We already have a low chance of killing someone in a downed vs downed state so this feat really doesn’t help and pales in comparison with the other traits like mugging.

II. Corrosive Traps (5 stacks of vulnerability for 5 seconds when hit by a trap utility) - Now this is almost where it needs to be as a feat, the problem is traps are the route less traveled because they function on a long term basis and need to be preloaded. There’s a possibility that you won’t actually be around the person caught in the trap in PvP. Traps also do not compliment the play style of the thief in which you kill a target quick and escape. If this feat made the vulnerability lasts for 15 seconds AND caused poison for 15 seconds it may make traps a little more appealing for combat.

V. Potent Poison (Increases Poison duration by 33%) -
Poison will almost never reach its max duration even without this feat due to removal and is weak to begin with, damage wise. Change this feat to either increase all VENOM skills by 33% or increase Condition Duration by 20% so it may also apply to bleeds and other random effects.

VII. Improvisation (Stealing recharges all skills of one type, randmoly) - “Random is never good, and rarely fun, especially when there’s a chance that you’ll get no effect. Should Imo be replaced entirely or refresh two different utility types that way there’s never a chance to miss entirely.”
Can’t believe I forgot to mention this one, this is something that belongs on a Mesmer. The thief community made it clear that random wasn’t appreciated when steal was in its early stages. This needs to be completely scraped and replaced, if you want traps to be viable this would be a good spot to put something to help trap builds.

Critical Strikes -
I. Furious Retaliation (Gain Fury for 10 seconds when your target reaches 50%, 45 second cooldown) -
The main and only issue with this is the 45 second cooldown. That is way to long for fury and consideirng most people with a crit build are already around 45%~ crit chance it’s laughable to choose this feat amongst anything else in the critical tree. The simple fix is lowering the cooldown to 15 seconds or removing the cooldown, but that could leave someone with perma fury with the right target planning. Perhaps when you deal 50% damage of your targets max HP to your target, you gain fury. No cooldown and this would require that you actually damage the person you have targeted.

IX. Combo Critical Chance (Dual Skills have a +5% chance to crit) -
Now the only weapon this actually compliments is dual pistols skill Unload. It’s meant to do phyiscal damage and giving yourself a bit more chance to crit can help a little but not by much. You’d be better off taking the quickness buff with any spec. The problem it has with the s/d and d/d is that these abilities aren’t meant for physical damage, d/d is meant for bleed applying and s/d is meant for boon removal. You aren’t really aiming to have them hit harder just do their respective secondary effects better. It would be nice if this feat got a little more complex and gave each dual skill an additional effect, perhaps applying a extra 2 bleeds with Death Blossom and removing 2 boons instead of 1 on Flanking Strike.

XII. Hidden Killer (100% crit chance in stealth) -
Now I know beta players were grateful for the boost from a flat 50% crit chance to 100% crit chance change, but let’s face it, you are only going to land ONE hit from stealth and with a crit build a vast majority of the time it’s a critical hit WITHOUT this feat. I know this would be highly debated as to whether or not this actually underpowered but if you can only land one hit from stealth and you’re probably already sitting on 50% crit chance you are much better off with Executioners consistent damage boost. One thing that could make this more appealing is a critical damage boost while in stealth so that the first attack you do which breaks stealth and reveals you hits harder than normal. A 25% critical damage boost on top of 100% crit chance while in stealth seems good and keep in mind it’s only going to work on a single attack.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Underpowered-Traits-and-Skills/88747