Well, having them gated isn’t a big deal if you just think about the effort required to unlock them, which, I agree, isn’t forbiddingly high. However, what is worrisome is why they have to make such content gated. The only reason that I can see is that there isn’t going to be enough content, so they have to make them gated.
It’s called Horizontal progression, also it’s kind of how lots of different RPGs work, you get more tools, more of the map opens up. Something players have been asking for a lot.
Don’t you agree that a new xpac that more is like GW: Factions would have been more enjoyable than HOT?
Factions content was also gated… Unlike Prophecies all maps were locked until you progressed the story first. If Factions was so huge, why do you think they see the need to gate all further zones from players and not allow them to run to end-zones like in Prophecies? Similar principle with HoT now.
The ratio of the amount of content in Factions to the amount of content in Prophecies is certainly much higher than the ratio of HOT to vanilla GW2. Wouldn’t you have more things to enjoy in HOT if it created the same percentage of new stuff?
The reason why people are unhappy is NOT because there is a lot of grind in a game, but because there is a lot of grind in the xpac of a game originally advertised as one that “does not require time to prepare for fun” and “respects your time”.
Players have been asking for a better way to get Legendary Weapons, a way that has more focused grind instead of just grind and they delivered. Now players complain that the grind they asked for is there?
I am not talking about ways of getting legendary weapons. I actually got one in the old way by playing less than an hour a day on average, and I don’t really have comments on different ways of getting legendary weapons.
The topic was about Legendary Weapons requiring a grind but oh well if it’s not the new legendary weapon system that is a grind then what is? The mastery system is the problem?
It depends on whether the OP was using the new legendary acquisition system as an example and talking about grind in HOT in general, or whether he’s talking about legendary items only. If it’s the latter, then I admit that my post is not entirely focused on his opinion.
In fact, I cannot really think of any new pve content (except the new profession) in HOT that is grind-free. Can you give an example of a new, fun pve content with great replayability in HOT that is completely grind-free for existing characters? None…there isn’t even going to be a new fractal instance even though they claim fractals are the 5-man content that they will focus on in the future. Therefore, I think Anet has given up their original manifesto, and they should not indicate otherwise when talking about HOT releases. Creating more grind and more layers of grind definitely has higher priority than creating new, fun content at the moment.
I’m just about sick of hearing what people DON’T want. You got a better idea for what should be coming down, then let’s hear it. But your negativity and condescending attitude is doing no favors for my own.
Let’s cut the crap and get to brass tacks. I’ve already heard what makes you UNHAPPY. What would make you HAPPY, and how, specifically, do you think it should be implemented? -Sid
(It’s okay. I fully expect you to ignore the question. I know your type.)
I see how this is going. Originally, when Anet tried to develop MMO games that respect players’ time, lots of players who have a busy real life flooded to GW1 and later GW2. When GW2 became popular because of this, many players who have much, much more free time also came to play GW2, and think that those who enjoyed the original GW1 and vanilla GW2 should quit and that Anet should focus on creating stuff for players who play all day.
What would make me happy? Being true to their original manifesto would certainly make me happy. I can understand the difficulty, because Anet lost many key people, including 2 out of the 3 co-founders. Therefore, they no longer have the man power to keep true to their original manifesto. If they decide to make HOT grindy because they don’t have enough people at the moment to create new, fun content, then we can certainly suggest them to hire more people and avoid doing this for the next xpac after HOT.
Look, it’s pretty obvious you don’t have a solution to your problems – and there’s nothing anyone can do for you if that’s the case.
If you can’t be more specific about what you want (by this, of course, I mean outlining things you want to see in-game, being quite a bit more detailed about what you consider “grindy”, etc.) then there’s no point in continuing this conversation.
Though I suspect there never was. You seem to have your mind made up already, and I strongly doubt anything short of you being placed in charge of the game would change it.
All the best, etc. -Sid
I don’t have any problems. The problem is that Anet turned against their own manifesto, possibly due to the loss of key people. I only suggested them to re-consider such a choice. They claimed their game to be innovate, and that they are doing something evolutionary and totally different from other MMORPGs, and there won’t be any typical MMO traps in GW2. All this turns out to be false with HOT release. If I could solve problems for them, then my pay scale would be in the million dollar range at least.
I see how this is going. Originally, when Anet tried to develop MMO games that respect players’ time, lots of players who have a busy real life flooded to GW1 and later GW2.
What does player time have to do with grind? And please are you saying that GW1 didn’t have a grind?
When you have only a moderate amount of time for gaming, you don’t need grindy stuff to keep playing a game, as long as developers focus on new content instead of focusing on creating new grindy stuff. Of course, when developers focus on creating new grindy stuff, there won’t be enough new content for players who only play moderately.
Can you give an example of a new, fun pve content with great replayability in HOT that is completely grind-free for existing characters?
Guild Hall claiming is done once so I doubt you’d call that a grind, the map wide events are similar to any other map in the game and it’s hardly a new type of grind, the story instances obviously, adventures, any new jumping puzzles they might add, the Raid instance (not different than any of the other dungeons). What exactly is coming with HoT that is more grind than old similar content?
Other than no new fractals and no new dungeons (they add 3 raid wings though) the rest of HoT is similar to what we already have.
Unless you say the rest of the game is also a grind of course then I pass. Unless you only call dungeons/fractals non-grind fun pve content then I don’t see on what basis you claim that HoT will be all about grind.
What you said are not completely grind-free, because they are all gated. Even traveling freely in the new maps require you to unlock gliding. Guild Hall decorations will be a grind. Raids in other MMORPGs are targeted towards people who can consistently get time for 8-hour raid nights every week, and Anet hasn’t said how raids in HOT will be different, so that people who spend a moderate amount of time on gaming will be able to enjoy it.
Well, having them gated isn’t a big deal if you just think about the effort required to unlock them, which, I agree, isn’t forbiddingly high. However, what is worrisome is why they have to make such content gated. The only reason that I can see is that there isn’t going to be enough content, so they have to make them gated.
Think about the first xpac to GW1. We were given Canthan, and there was really no need to make anything gated.
Don’t you agree that a new xpac that more is like GW: Factions would have been more enjoyable than HOT?
The reason why people are unhappy is NOT because there is a lot of grind in a game, but because there is a lot of grind in the xpac of a game originally advertised as one that “does not require time to prepare for fun” and “respects your time”.
Players have been asking for a better way to get Legendary Weapons, a way that has more focused grind instead of just grind and they delivered. Now players complain that the grind they asked for is there?
I am not talking about ways of getting legendary weapons. I actually got one in the old way by playing less than an hour a day on average, and I don’t really have comments on different ways of getting legendary weapons.
The topic was about Legendary Weapons requiring a grind but oh well if it’s not the new legendary weapon system that is a grind then what is? The mastery system is the problem?
It depends on whether the OP was using the new legendary acquisition system as an example and talking about grind in HOT in general, or whether he’s talking about legendary items only. If it’s the latter, then I admit that my post is not entirely focused on his opinion.
In fact, I cannot really think of any new pve content (except the new profession) in HOT that is grind-free. Can you give an example of a new, fun pve content with great replayability in HOT that is completely grind-free for existing characters? None…there isn’t even going to be a new fractal instance even though they claim fractals are the 5-man content that they will focus on in the future. Therefore, I think Anet has given up their original manifesto, and they should not indicate otherwise when talking about HOT releases. Creating more grind and more layers of grind definitely has higher priority than creating new, fun content at the moment.
I’m just about sick of hearing what people DON’T want. You got a better idea for what should be coming down, then let’s hear it. But your negativity and condescending attitude is doing no favors for my own.
Let’s cut the crap and get to brass tacks. I’ve already heard what makes you UNHAPPY. What would make you HAPPY, and how, specifically, do you think it should be implemented? -Sid
(It’s okay. I fully expect you to ignore the question. I know your type.)
I see how this is going. Originally, when Anet tried to develop MMO games that respect players’ time, lots of players who have a busy real life flooded to GW1 and later GW2. When GW2 became popular because of this, many players who have much, much more free time also came to play GW2, and think that those who enjoyed the original GW1 and vanilla GW2 should quit and that Anet should focus on creating stuff for players who play all day.
What would make me happy? Being true to their original manifesto would certainly make me happy. I can understand the difficulty, because Anet lost many key people, including 2 out of the 3 co-founders. Therefore, they no longer have the man power to keep true to their original manifesto. If they decide to make HOT grindy because they don’t have enough people at the moment to create new, fun content, then we can certainly suggest them to hire more people and avoid doing this for the next xpac after HOT.
They keep saying that ascended items are only recommended for raids. Ascended has 5% stats more than exotic. Therefore, if all 10 players equip ascended, then it’s like having 10.5 players in exotic. The person buying the kill just has to be half as skillful as others.
In fact, if 9 players know how to kill the boss and have killed it many times, it is very easy to educate the 10th person to do the right thing, even without ascended gear.
The reason why people are unhappy is NOT because there is a lot of grind in a game, but because there is a lot of grind in the xpac of a game originally advertised as one that “does not require time to prepare for fun” and “respects your time”.
Players have been asking for a better way to get Legendary Weapons, a way that has more focused grind instead of just grind and they delivered. Now players complain that the grind they asked for is there?
I am not talking about ways of getting legendary weapons. I actually got one in the old way by playing less than an hour a day on average, and I don’t really have comments on different ways of getting legendary weapons.
The topic was about Legendary Weapons requiring a grind but oh well if it’s not the new legendary weapon system that is a grind then what is? The mastery system is the problem?
It depends on whether the OP was using the new legendary acquisition system as an example and talking about grind in HOT in general, or whether he’s talking about legendary items only. If it’s the latter, then I admit that my post is not entirely focused on his opinion.
In fact, I cannot really think of any new pve content (except the new profession) in HOT that is grind-free. Can you give an example of a new, fun pve content with great replayability in HOT that is completely grind-free for existing characters? None…there isn’t even going to be a new fractal instance even though they claim fractals are the 5-man content that they will focus on in the future. Therefore, I think Anet has given up their original manifesto, and they should not indicate otherwise when talking about HOT releases. Creating more grind and more layers of grind definitely has higher priority than creating new, fun content at the moment.
Oh, geez, I see why two persons are talking about legendary items when replying to my post. Read it more carefully. I said Anet’s initial intention of designing a MMORPG without grinding was legendary. Here legendary is an adjective, and it is not referring to legendary items in GW2.
The reason why people are unhappy is NOT because there is a lot of grind in a game, but because there is a lot of grind in the xpac of a game originally advertised as one that “does not require time to prepare for fun” and “respects your time”.
Players have been asking for a better way to get Legendary Weapons, a way that has more focused grind instead of just grind and they delivered. Now players complain that the grind they asked for is there?
I am not talking about ways of getting legendary weapons. I actually got one in the old way by playing less than an hour a day on average, and I don’t really have comments on different ways of getting legendary weapons.
The reason why people are unhappy is NOT because there is a lot of grind in a game, but because there is a lot of grind in the xpac of a game originally advertised as one that “does not require time to prepare for fun” and “respects your time”.
That is, people are unhappy that Anet failed their legendary “quest” of designing a MMORPG without grinding.
The fact that there are grindy stuff in some other games is totally irrelevant. Anet tried to avoid grindy stuff and then gave up in the xpac, and that’s it. Of course there are people who are happy about Anet’s failure because they like grindy stuff, while others will be unhappy.
I don’t think anyone can argue about this.
Your whole argument is bunk because anet promised a game with no MANDATORY grind which is still the case. You all keep acting as if having a legendary is an integral part of the game and is required. Legedarys are an item, a cosmetic skin, it doesnt unlock some previously unaccesable content in the game., its a completeky uneeded luxory item. Anet added more long term goals for the type of player that enjoys grinding, not getting a legendary in no way inhibits your gameplay
Did I say anything about legendary? The number of different ways of putting words into others’ mouths really amazed me.
If you think that the grind in HOT is only for cosmetic items, then you clearly haven’t paid close attention to the features of HOT that the developers talked about.
The reason why people are unhappy is NOT because there is a lot of grind in a game, but because there is a lot of grind in the xpac of a game originally advertised as one that “does not require time to prepare for fun” and “respects your time”.
That is, people are unhappy that Anet failed their legendary “quest” of designing a MMORPG without grinding.
The fact that there are grindy stuff in some other games is totally irrelevant. Anet tried to avoid grindy stuff and then gave up in the xpac, and that’s it. Of course there are people who are happy about Anet’s failure because they like grindy stuff, while others will be unhappy.
I don’t think anyone can argue about this.
No thanks, WoW is that way ->
Actually WOW is much less grindy. You do have to grind for gear each time a new content patch is out, but you get new content and grind it, instead of doing old content over and over again to grind for stuff in GW2.
experience gating? are you kidding me with that term?
do you expect everything to be unlocked for you from the start with any other game?
its called progression and for a game to hold the interest of its audience there needs to be a meaningful sense of progression or else the players will get bored and leave.
Is that why you got bored and left GW1?
Time gating is nothing new. It’s been in every single game I’ve ever played. It’s in place to always give you something to journey towards. If everything was given to you all at once how long would you play; be honest now.
I think people are unhappy because Anet originally advertised their game as one that “does not require time to prepare for fun”, and bought the game based on this manifesto and the fact that GW1 is truly such a game.
If this game were not a GW2 extension, then fewer people would complain.
For the same reason, if Google had never said “don’t be evil”, then fewer people would have complained angrily about the way in which they track their users.
I also would like to mention that, if you also play games that are not MMORPGs, then you will see that the vast majority of PC games do not have time gated stuff.
(edited by MyriadStars.5679)
If you can do everything right away, you’re more likely to rush through a zone and never return. How many folks here go back to Harathi Hinterlands after mapping except for Ulgoth farming? How many of you go to Fireheart Rise except to head to CoF? How many head to Iron Marches at all after mapping?
Not many, I bet.
This shows why gated content is the best for Anet. They can use less effort to keep people playing for longer.
However, as a player, having less grind is more fun.
Anet’s manifesto really reminds me of Google’s “don’t be evil”. Neither of these two lasts.
(edited by MyriadStars.5679)
This grind will be boring. If you are interested in playing challenging games for fun, then HOT will not be the right game for you. You need to play an online RTS or FPS games for fun and truly challenging encounters, or wait to see what the next generation of MMORPGs will be like. Too bad that Anet gave up their manifesto of GW2, which had the potential to be a fun game without being grindy. These days I normally play GW2 for its pvp aspects only.
L00000L did you just say FPS games were challenging?
Well, I am talking about PC games as I don’t play console or mobile games. Anway, I don’t play much FPS, so I am not going to argue about that, but RTS is more challenging for sure. No matter how good you are at it, there are always people who are better, and you need to try hard to beat them. You don’t need to grind for any gear, and it is your APM, strategy and knowledge that determine the outcome of a match. In 1vs1 matches, you have yourself to blame if you lose.
The pvp in GW2 is not bad, but it is less demanding in terms of APM, strategy or knowledge.
In MMORPG, no matter how difficult the boss is, it’s AI and it is predictable. If you have enough free time, you will beat any raids. Anyone whose skill level is not at the bottom 10% can raid if he plays all day. I hope the next generation of MMORPG games will focus on challenging and fun content that does not require long play sessions… if this ever comes true one day.
This grind will be boring. If you are interested in playing challenging games for fun, then HOT will not be the right game for you. You need to play an online RTS or FPS games for fun and truly challenging encounters, or wait to see what the next generation of MMORPGs will be like. Too bad that Anet gave up their manifesto of GW2, which had the potential to be a fun game without being grindy. These days I normally play GW2 for its pvp aspects only.
Right now Bestbuy has 15% off if you preorder two games or more. If it happens that you plan to play another game, then after 15% off, it isn’t too bad.
In fact, if you are in Canada and you are interested in two upcoming games, I suggest you to do this preorder. There are two reasons:
1. If enough players purchase through Canadian retailers instead of purchasing through Anet’s website, then Anet will work with more Canadian retailers for future releases. Competition will then drive the price down, which will be good for customers. Right now the price is high because Bestbuy is the only retailer that sells it in Canada. If you look at other games that are sold by all retailers, you can see that the Canadian prices are often slightly lower than US prices after currency conversion.
2. The retailer will make some money. If more retailers stay in business, then there will be more competitions which are again good for customers.
but i’d rather they did it clean and in the open, instead of claiming one thing and doing another like they do currently.
Exactly. I think many people who are eager for HOT will end up being disappointed, due to the misleading information.
I also think that exotics were intended to be highest tier. That’s why in spvp, starts are normalized to exotics.
However, many key people including two out of three co-founders left Anet after its acquisition by NCSoft, so the current GW2 team is no longer than same as the old one. That’s probably why they changed their minds…because it’s not the same “they”.
I have a lot of ascended: multiple weps on six characters. Full armor on three and pieces on two others. I am definitely a filthy casual, playing maybe an hour and a half a day, if that. Go figure.
I play slightly less than an hour a day on average, and I even crafted a legendary and I never sold gem for gold. However, this is irrelevant, because people like you and me will never have the amount of free time required for raiding. I know this from my previous experience in raiding, when I had much, much more free time.
Has anyone got their items back? My item is still missing.
Blizzard themselves said that WoW was highly successfully because it is more accessible than Everquest 1. You require less time to play WoW, while in Everquest 1, you even have to spend time getting food so that your character would not decease. It’s not raids that made WoW successful.
I had thought that Guild wars 2 will be a step forward in the evolution, by not having raids entirely. However, HOT will be a step backward, containing mostly of grindy stuff and raids. What a disappointment!
Look at what Everquest Next developers said this year:
“However, when we’re choosing what new games to make we’re focused on games with shorter average session lengths. Why? Because that’s the way the gaming world has evolved and we need to adapt. That’s precisely why we aimed so high on Everquest Next. We know we needed to change our aim on these games. We can’t just expect our users to want to grind through an epic 8 hour raid encounter or treat these games like it’s a second job. We need to make sure our games are just as fun in smaller time increments.”
These are the experts. It seems that Everquest Next will what GW2 failed to be. I will postpone the purchase of HOT to see if Anet eventually makes raids more accessible to people who will play GW2 an hour a time. If they don’t do that before Everquest Next is released, I will consider switching over to Everquest Next. In the mean while, I will just purchase Starcraft ii: Legacy of the Void. It is infinitely more challenging than raids, without requiring people to treat it as a second job.
By the way, I think NCsoft, instead of Anet, is to blame for HOT. NCSoft made Anet lose two of the three co-founders, and many key people left Anet after NCSoft acquired Anet.
Game hasn’t come out yet…
Not enough people are like you. I also scratch my head at these posts and wonder why someone would be outraged about something that A:) Hasn’t happened yet. and B:) Relies on there being no changes from the Beta. And C:) They have no real way of knowing.
If people must wait till the release to express their concerns, then, by the same logic, no one should pre-purchase since you don’t know what exactly you will get.
I mean, for instance, World of Warcraft dropped its ball BECAUSE of the lack of stuff to do once max-level. Raiding was the only thing. I think that’s what Guild Wars does best – you play how you want. And if raiding is completely optional? All the more power to it.
Wow gave players lots of 5-man dungeons with content patches, while HOT will just give raids without new 5-man instance. Yet some people are still thinking that there is more to do in GW2 without raids.
Today i had the pleasure of doing fractal lvl 50 with a guard that provided nothing for our team but sadness and frustration for a whole run.
Raiding will eliminate that kind of players and that’s just fine. That will simply exclude everyone and their mom from having legendary items simply because they were there leeching from the group spamming 1 while rooted on one spot.
You got him because you were pugging. It had nothing to do with fractals or raiding. Try pugging for raid instances and you will see the same thing happen.
It just occurred to me that if I don’t raid, then there is little new content for me in HOT. My main is ele, and tempest isn’t worth playing. I don’t plan to create a revenant. In the end, the new content for me will be 3 maps, 1 pvp mode, 1 wvw map, and perhaps new personal stories (they haven’t talked about personal stories, but I guess they must be there). This is far less than what I got in eye of the north in GW1 which was cheaper, less enjoyable than what I got from the fractals systems which are free, and is only slightly more than what I got during living stories season 2. Now I am seriously considering not to pay the launch price and get Legacy of the Void instead, which, surprisingly, is even $10 less even though it the xpac to the top1 RTS game. Well, at least I will get truly challenging content in starcraft, instead of so-called challenging content which simply requires lots of free time.
IMO, raids were originally invented to keep players who play all day happy. If someone plays all day (say, 6+ hours per day), he will run out of things to do very quickly. Then raids were created as time sinks for those players, and they could indeed spend 40+ hours per week on raids. They also have to do this every week, as raid guilds have requirements on attendance. If you don’t join, say, >90% of the guild raids, then you will become a bench person and some other guildie will take your regular raider’s place.
Raids are never about the challenge itself. Many people are mindlessly raiding every week in many MMOs to keep their regular raiders’ spots. All you have to do in a raid is to do the right thing at the right time, and it will eventually become trivial because the mechanism never changes for the same boss.
To experience real challenge in games, one should play RTS or FPS games online, as there is always someone better and you can try to beat him/her.
Notice I’m not saying LFR wasn’t popular with some people but I do contest your assertion that a “retiring raider” would ever consider doing them for fun, they were just depressing. They were designed so everyone could see the whole raid – notice WoW’s main story line conclusions were raids – and they were not there as a substitute for “people who wanted to raid but didn’t have the time” because they weren’t raiding, they were attacking a target dummy dressed up as a raid with nothing that made a raid a raid.
I think it depends on why they retired from raiding. If it’s because they are tired of mindlessly farming raid instances over and over again, to satisfy the attendance required by raid guilds, then sure, it’s possible that they won’t be interested in LFR, either. However, if it’s because they no longer have the time for raids, then it depends on whether they are interested in stories, i.e., the lore. If they are, they may choose to do LFR a few times for lore, instead of for loot, and stay in the game longer between expansions. Even though the story line in WoW is far inferior to Warcraft 3, it’s still better to have the access to the story line instead of not having it entirely.
And there you’ve said it, “they will maybe do it a few times for lore” that is not retention… That is one run to see the cutscenes and dialogue if you’re paying attention, that is not worth adding to the game. Just go watch WP anyway for Lore :P
Also I’m not sure how heavy our GW2 raids will be on “story” all we know atm is a pact squad is missing and there seems to be a Bloodstone piece on the floor. Interesting no doubt but adding LFR (and all the trouble it brings – people feeling forced to grind it for extra loot drops and resentment over the cheapening of raids and extra development time required). Uuurgh it was not a provably good thing for WoW and all my memories of it were awful and please don’t bring it here.
I think it’s retention…People mostly do single-player campaigns in real-time strategy games such as starcraft and warcraft (not wow) for lore (you don’t need so many episodes to learn how to use the units), but these campaigns are created anyway.
You’re having now to reach for RTS to make your point, you know its not retention to do something once every 6 months in an MMO (every 6 months being their pencil’d in time table for raid releases I think I read – if its a different number read that instead).
One evening every 6 months to be rushed through a raid by strangers zooming off ahead to want to grind through it on easy mode would not give you a good lore experience anyway – I would point to Nobbel who does WoW lore and he actually gets guilds to run him through the real raid instances instead of doing LFR.
It won’t retain retiring raiders, if they’re stickin around in the game for 6 months for 1 evening of LFR then they are clearly staying for other things (which is a good thing) and we don;t need this abomination brought to our shores.
Actually I don’t have to reach to RTS. I am pretty sure that the living story season 2 helped Anet to retain many players. Most players just do it once for lore, and only some opt to grind it for things like Bioluminescence.
Oh I agree new content is great, but thats exactly what I would want – single playered instances for Story (ie. LS3) and Raids kept as Raids (I really don’t need the raids to be drowned in Lore infact most were not; most of the bosses in ICC were just made up on the spot to fill a slot). Mordremoth should be killed in the main story line that everyone can do – raids are a side mission for those interested.
I didn’t really propose to dumb down raids. Creating multiple difficulty levels, or use the fractals systems, will not take away the challenging content. In fact, with these options, Anet will never have to nerf any raid boss (which was done sometimes in other MMOs), because alternate ways of experiencing these encounters are provided anyway. Therefore, it’s ultimately good for those who want challenging content as well.
As we discussed earlier doing them fractal style loses their epic feeling, as has been explained by others you will have your raid progress saved at the end of wings. You do not need these extra difficulty levels or fractal style 1 per instance.
I’m not sure how easy it would be for Anet to create different levels of Raid given it took WoW 2 expansions and A LOT of tinkering and trial and error and a very Raid focused player base to settle into what it thought was best and now has gone over board with adding Raid stuff that it has drained all the life from every other part of the game (the raids were the only solid part of their last expansion the rest was given a lot of criticism and thats from resource management I would think – don’t believe “add extra raid levels” comes at zero cost).
Epic feelings come at a cost. By regularly playing games for 5+ hours straight without major breaks, one may get into health issues. Think about neck pains, back pains, eye issues… GW1 used to show the message that “you have been playing for x hours” to remind people that their own health is important.
Epic feelings do not imply more challenges to player skills. Therefore, people are sacrificing their heath for … actually I don’t know what for.
Have we reached the point in the evening where its time to stop? I think so, you’ve just gone for the “raiding causes health problems” argument. I can asure you I am perfectly healthy and really expect other humans to have the intelligence to see to their own health.
Unless you want to complain to Peter Jackson for those dangerously long LotR directors cuts too – jesus the original Gone With The Wind must have caused a tidal wave of ER admissions.
Feeling things is good – its part of being human. Speaking of which I cannot recommend Inside Out enough – was so good – I would even say watch it alone to let all those emotions work without worrying about bursting into tears infront of people you know.
You can choose to watch the 3 LOTR movies (extended) in one day to get the epic feeling, but most others would just use three different days or as many days as they want to, and they don’t have to watch them in the same week. What is important is that, having the ability to watch 3 LOTR movies on the same day won’t stop others from using more days.
Keeping raids in long raid wings will make it difficult for others to enjoy each encounter one by one at their own pace. If they use a system like fractals, or have raid wings that can be cleared in 1 hour for skillful players, nothing would stop you from getting a group to move from one instance to another on the same night, in order to raid for 5+ hours a time to get the epic feeling, provided that you do this with a hardcore raid guild. We actually move from one instance to another when we move from one zone to the next, and I don’t think this makes the GW2 world look smaller.
If jumping from instances to instances bothers you, I would say that they actually don’t even have to split a raid wing into multiple instances. It’s enough to give players the ability to jump to the x-th boss directly if they had killed first (x-1) bosses before, no matter how long ago they killed these bosses. It is like using a bookmark when reading a long epic fantasy fiction; you don’t have to read it from the very beginning each time you do some reading. You see, there are multiple ways of giving you the epic feeling without making others have access to less new content.
Others say that it is selfish to ask Anet to nerf raids so that more people can do it. Now, is it selfish to prevent more people from having access to new content, because some want an epic feeling that does not imply more challenges?
Nothing is stopping you clearing 1 wing a week and saving your progress but having 1 boss per instance will just destroy the feeling and Guild Wars’ devs put a lot of effort into their environments. Its not unreasonable and its not selfish to ask you to kill 3 bosses in a week if you are raiding.
If you can watch all the LotR movies in a week you can manage that. No one is getting less access – you’re inventing barriers which you do not know exist.
Having 3 bosses in one raid wing will not make hardcore players happy, because it’s not epic enough. They will call it too casual and too easy, and complain about it. When their guild has a raid wing on farm status, they will clear it in under 2 hours, and complain that the raid night is too short and they have nothing else to do.
Besides, the “bookmark” feature that I proposed does not even require Anet to put a boss in each instance. They can put 10 bosses in each raid wing if they want to, as long as players can “bookmark” their progress indefinitely. You can always find hardcore raid guilds in which players want to do it from the first boss to the last every week, and others can do it at their own pace.
(edited by MyriadStars.5679)
Notice I’m not saying LFR wasn’t popular with some people but I do contest your assertion that a “retiring raider” would ever consider doing them for fun, they were just depressing. They were designed so everyone could see the whole raid – notice WoW’s main story line conclusions were raids – and they were not there as a substitute for “people who wanted to raid but didn’t have the time” because they weren’t raiding, they were attacking a target dummy dressed up as a raid with nothing that made a raid a raid.
I think it depends on why they retired from raiding. If it’s because they are tired of mindlessly farming raid instances over and over again, to satisfy the attendance required by raid guilds, then sure, it’s possible that they won’t be interested in LFR, either. However, if it’s because they no longer have the time for raids, then it depends on whether they are interested in stories, i.e., the lore. If they are, they may choose to do LFR a few times for lore, instead of for loot, and stay in the game longer between expansions. Even though the story line in WoW is far inferior to Warcraft 3, it’s still better to have the access to the story line instead of not having it entirely.
And there you’ve said it, “they will maybe do it a few times for lore” that is not retention… That is one run to see the cutscenes and dialogue if you’re paying attention, that is not worth adding to the game. Just go watch WP anyway for Lore :P
Also I’m not sure how heavy our GW2 raids will be on “story” all we know atm is a pact squad is missing and there seems to be a Bloodstone piece on the floor. Interesting no doubt but adding LFR (and all the trouble it brings – people feeling forced to grind it for extra loot drops and resentment over the cheapening of raids and extra development time required). Uuurgh it was not a provably good thing for WoW and all my memories of it were awful and please don’t bring it here.
I think it’s retention…People mostly do single-player campaigns in real-time strategy games such as starcraft and warcraft (not wow) for lore (you don’t need so many episodes to learn how to use the units), but these campaigns are created anyway.
You’re having now to reach for RTS to make your point, you know its not retention to do something once every 6 months in an MMO (every 6 months being their pencil’d in time table for raid releases I think I read – if its a different number read that instead).
One evening every 6 months to be rushed through a raid by strangers zooming off ahead to want to grind through it on easy mode would not give you a good lore experience anyway – I would point to Nobbel who does WoW lore and he actually gets guilds to run him through the real raid instances instead of doing LFR.
It won’t retain retiring raiders, if they’re stickin around in the game for 6 months for 1 evening of LFR then they are clearly staying for other things (which is a good thing) and we don;t need this abomination brought to our shores.
Actually I don’t have to reach to RTS. I am pretty sure that the living story season 2 helped Anet to retain many players. Most players just do it once for lore, and only some opt to grind it for things like Bioluminescence.
Oh I agree new content is great, but thats exactly what I would want – single playered instances for Story (ie. LS3) and Raids kept as Raids (I really don’t need the raids to be drowned in Lore infact most were not; most of the bosses in ICC were just made up on the spot to fill a slot). Mordremoth should be killed in the main story line that everyone can do – raids are a side mission for those interested.
I didn’t really propose to dumb down raids. Creating multiple difficulty levels, or use the fractals systems, will not take away the challenging content. In fact, with these options, Anet will never have to nerf any raid boss (which was done sometimes in other MMOs), because alternate ways of experiencing these encounters are provided anyway. Therefore, it’s ultimately good for those who want challenging content as well.
As we discussed earlier doing them fractal style loses their epic feeling, as has been explained by others you will have your raid progress saved at the end of wings. You do not need these extra difficulty levels or fractal style 1 per instance.
I’m not sure how easy it would be for Anet to create different levels of Raid given it took WoW 2 expansions and A LOT of tinkering and trial and error and a very Raid focused player base to settle into what it thought was best and now has gone over board with adding Raid stuff that it has drained all the life from every other part of the game (the raids were the only solid part of their last expansion the rest was given a lot of criticism and thats from resource management I would think – don’t believe “add extra raid levels” comes at zero cost).
Epic feelings come at a cost. By regularly playing games for 5+ hours straight without major breaks, one may get into health issues. Think about neck pains, back pains, eye issues… GW1 used to show the message that “you have been playing for x hours” to remind people that their own health is important.
Epic feelings do not imply more challenges to player skills. Therefore, people are sacrificing their heath for … actually I don’t know what for.
Have we reached the point in the evening where its time to stop? I think so, you’ve just gone for the “raiding causes health problems” argument. I can asure you I am perfectly healthy and really expect other humans to have the intelligence to see to their own health.
Unless you want to complain to Peter Jackson for those dangerously long LotR directors cuts too – jesus the original Gone With The Wind must have caused a tidal wave of ER admissions.
Feeling things is good – its part of being human. Speaking of which I cannot recommend Inside Out enough – was so good – I would even say watch it alone to let all those emotions work without worrying about bursting into tears infront of people you know.
You can choose to watch the 3 LOTR movies (extended) in one day to get the epic feeling, but most others would just use three different days or as many days as they want to, and they don’t have to watch them in the same week. What is important is that, having the ability to watch 3 LOTR movies on the same day won’t stop others from using more days.
Keeping raids in long raid wings will make it difficult for others to enjoy each encounter one by one at their own pace. If they use a system like fractals, or have raid wings that can be cleared in 1 hour for skillful players, nothing would stop you from getting a group to move from one instance to another on the same night, in order to raid for 5+ hours a time to get the epic feeling, provided that you do this with a hardcore raid guild. We actually move from one instance to another when we move from one zone to the next, and I don’t think this makes the GW2 world look smaller.
If jumping from instances to instances bothers you, I would say that they actually don’t even have to split a raid wing into multiple instances. It’s enough to give players the ability to jump to the x-th boss directly if they had killed first (x-1) bosses before, no matter how long ago they killed these bosses. It is like using a bookmark when reading a long epic fantasy fiction; you don’t have to read it from the very beginning each time you do some reading. You see, there are multiple ways of giving you the epic feeling without making others have access to less new content.
Others say that it is selfish to ask Anet to nerf raids so that more people can do it. Now, is it selfish to prevent more people from having access to new content, because some want an epic feeling that does not imply more challenges?
(edited by MyriadStars.5679)
Notice I’m not saying LFR wasn’t popular with some people but I do contest your assertion that a “retiring raider” would ever consider doing them for fun, they were just depressing. They were designed so everyone could see the whole raid – notice WoW’s main story line conclusions were raids – and they were not there as a substitute for “people who wanted to raid but didn’t have the time” because they weren’t raiding, they were attacking a target dummy dressed up as a raid with nothing that made a raid a raid.
I think it depends on why they retired from raiding. If it’s because they are tired of mindlessly farming raid instances over and over again, to satisfy the attendance required by raid guilds, then sure, it’s possible that they won’t be interested in LFR, either. However, if it’s because they no longer have the time for raids, then it depends on whether they are interested in stories, i.e., the lore. If they are, they may choose to do LFR a few times for lore, instead of for loot, and stay in the game longer between expansions. Even though the story line in WoW is far inferior to Warcraft 3, it’s still better to have the access to the story line instead of not having it entirely.
And there you’ve said it, “they will maybe do it a few times for lore” that is not retention… That is one run to see the cutscenes and dialogue if you’re paying attention, that is not worth adding to the game. Just go watch WP anyway for Lore :P
Also I’m not sure how heavy our GW2 raids will be on “story” all we know atm is a pact squad is missing and there seems to be a Bloodstone piece on the floor. Interesting no doubt but adding LFR (and all the trouble it brings – people feeling forced to grind it for extra loot drops and resentment over the cheapening of raids and extra development time required). Uuurgh it was not a provably good thing for WoW and all my memories of it were awful and please don’t bring it here.
I think it’s retention…People mostly do single-player campaigns in real-time strategy games such as starcraft and warcraft (not wow) for lore (you don’t need so many episodes to learn how to use the units), but these campaigns are created anyway.
You’re having now to reach for RTS to make your point, you know its not retention to do something once every 6 months in an MMO (every 6 months being their pencil’d in time table for raid releases I think I read – if its a different number read that instead).
One evening every 6 months to be rushed through a raid by strangers zooming off ahead to want to grind through it on easy mode would not give you a good lore experience anyway – I would point to Nobbel who does WoW lore and he actually gets guilds to run him through the real raid instances instead of doing LFR.
It won’t retain retiring raiders, if they’re stickin around in the game for 6 months for 1 evening of LFR then they are clearly staying for other things (which is a good thing) and we don;t need this abomination brought to our shores.
Actually I don’t have to reach to RTS. I am pretty sure that the living story season 2 helped Anet to retain many players. Most players just do it once for lore, and only some opt to grind it for things like Bioluminescence.
Oh I agree new content is great, but thats exactly what I would want – single playered instances for Story (ie. LS3) and Raids kept as Raids (I really don’t need the raids to be drowned in Lore infact most were not; most of the bosses in ICC were just made up on the spot to fill a slot). Mordremoth should be killed in the main story line that everyone can do – raids are a side mission for those interested.
I didn’t really propose to dumb down raids. Creating multiple difficulty levels, or use the fractals systems, will not take away the challenging content. In fact, with these options, Anet will never have to nerf any raid boss (which was done sometimes in other MMOs), because alternate ways of experiencing these encounters are provided anyway. Therefore, it’s ultimately good for those who want challenging content as well.
As we discussed earlier doing them fractal style loses their epic feeling, as has been explained by others you will have your raid progress saved at the end of wings. You do not need these extra difficulty levels or fractal style 1 per instance.
I’m not sure how easy it would be for Anet to create different levels of Raid given it took WoW 2 expansions and A LOT of tinkering and trial and error and a very Raid focused player base to settle into what it thought was best and now has gone over board with adding Raid stuff that it has drained all the life from every other part of the game (the raids were the only solid part of their last expansion the rest was given a lot of criticism and thats from resource management I would think – don’t believe “add extra raid levels” comes at zero cost).
Epic feelings come at a cost. By regularly playing games for 5+ hours straight without major breaks, one may get into health issues. Think about neck pains, back pains, eye issues… GW1 used to show the message that “you have been playing for x hours” to remind people that their own health is important.
Epic feelings do not imply more challenges to player skills. Therefore, people are sacrificing their heath for … actually I don’t know what for.
By the way, even after Blizzard implemented LFR in Cataclysm, most of the players who quit WOW when they no longer had the time for raids did not return to WoW, even though they played 30+ hours of WoW per week when they had the time. We can wait to see the same thing happen to GW2, or Anet programmers can learn from this and do it right from the very beginning.
I don’t see how that’s a counterargument to having different raid difficulties in GW2.
Actually what I meant is that Anet should learn from this and implement either multiple raid difficulties, or fractals-like raids, from the very beginning, instead of waiting till it is too late. Therefore, we are talking about the same thing.
Notice I’m not saying LFR wasn’t popular with some people but I do contest your assertion that a “retiring raider” would ever consider doing them for fun, they were just depressing. They were designed so everyone could see the whole raid – notice WoW’s main story line conclusions were raids – and they were not there as a substitute for “people who wanted to raid but didn’t have the time” because they weren’t raiding, they were attacking a target dummy dressed up as a raid with nothing that made a raid a raid.
I think it depends on why they retired from raiding. If it’s because they are tired of mindlessly farming raid instances over and over again, to satisfy the attendance required by raid guilds, then sure, it’s possible that they won’t be interested in LFR, either. However, if it’s because they no longer have the time for raids, then it depends on whether they are interested in stories, i.e., the lore. If they are, they may choose to do LFR a few times for lore, instead of for loot, and stay in the game longer between expansions. Even though the story line in WoW is far inferior to Warcraft 3, it’s still better to have the access to the story line instead of not having it entirely.
And there you’ve said it, “they will maybe do it a few times for lore” that is not retention… That is one run to see the cutscenes and dialogue if you’re paying attention, that is not worth adding to the game. Just go watch WP anyway for Lore :P
Also I’m not sure how heavy our GW2 raids will be on “story” all we know atm is a pact squad is missing and there seems to be a Bloodstone piece on the floor. Interesting no doubt but adding LFR (and all the trouble it brings – people feeling forced to grind it for extra loot drops and resentment over the cheapening of raids and extra development time required). Uuurgh it was not a provably good thing for WoW and all my memories of it were awful and please don’t bring it here.
I think it’s retention…People mostly do single-player campaigns in real-time strategy games such as starcraft and warcraft (not wow) for lore (you don’t need so many episodes to learn how to use the units), but these campaigns are created anyway.
You’re having now to reach for RTS to make your point, you know its not retention to do something once every 6 months in an MMO (every 6 months being their pencil’d in time table for raid releases I think I read – if its a different number read that instead).
One evening every 6 months to be rushed through a raid by strangers zooming off ahead to want to grind through it on easy mode would not give you a good lore experience anyway – I would point to Nobbel who does WoW lore and he actually gets guilds to run him through the real raid instances instead of doing LFR.
It won’t retain retiring raiders, if they’re stickin around in the game for 6 months for 1 evening of LFR then they are clearly staying for other things (which is a good thing) and we don;t need this abomination brought to our shores.
Actually I don’t have to reach to RTS. I am pretty sure that the living story season 2 helped Anet to retain many players. Most players just do it once for lore, and only some opt to grind it for things like Bioluminescence.
Oh I agree new content is great, but thats exactly what I would want – single playered instances for Story (ie. LS3) and Raids kept as Raids (I really don’t need the raids to be drowned in Lore infact most were not; most of the bosses in ICC were just made up on the spot to fill a slot). Mordremoth should be killed in the main story line that everyone can do – raids are a side mission for those interested.
I didn’t really propose to dumb down raids. Creating multiple difficulty levels, or use the fractals systems, will not take away the challenging content. In fact, with these options, Anet will never have to nerf any raid boss (which was done sometimes in other MMOs), because alternate ways of experiencing these encounters are provided anyway. Therefore, it’s ultimately good for those who want challenging content as well.
Notice I’m not saying LFR wasn’t popular with some people but I do contest your assertion that a “retiring raider” would ever consider doing them for fun, they were just depressing. They were designed so everyone could see the whole raid – notice WoW’s main story line conclusions were raids – and they were not there as a substitute for “people who wanted to raid but didn’t have the time” because they weren’t raiding, they were attacking a target dummy dressed up as a raid with nothing that made a raid a raid.
I think it depends on why they retired from raiding. If it’s because they are tired of mindlessly farming raid instances over and over again, to satisfy the attendance required by raid guilds, then sure, it’s possible that they won’t be interested in LFR, either. However, if it’s because they no longer have the time for raids, then it depends on whether they are interested in stories, i.e., the lore. If they are, they may choose to do LFR a few times for lore, instead of for loot, and stay in the game longer between expansions. Even though the story line in WoW is far inferior to Warcraft 3, it’s still better to have the access to the story line instead of not having it entirely.
And there you’ve said it, “they will maybe do it a few times for lore” that is not retention… That is one run to see the cutscenes and dialogue if you’re paying attention, that is not worth adding to the game. Just go watch WP anyway for Lore :P
Also I’m not sure how heavy our GW2 raids will be on “story” all we know atm is a pact squad is missing and there seems to be a Bloodstone piece on the floor. Interesting no doubt but adding LFR (and all the trouble it brings – people feeling forced to grind it for extra loot drops and resentment over the cheapening of raids and extra development time required). Uuurgh it was not a provably good thing for WoW and all my memories of it were awful and please don’t bring it here.
I think it’s retention…People mostly do single-player campaigns in real-time strategy games such as starcraft and warcraft (not wow) for lore (you don’t need so many episodes to learn how to use the units), but these campaigns are created anyway.
You’re having now to reach for RTS to make your point, you know its not retention to do something once every 6 months in an MMO (every 6 months being their pencil’d in time table for raid releases I think I read – if its a different number read that instead).
One evening every 6 months to be rushed through a raid by strangers zooming off ahead to want to grind through it on easy mode would not give you a good lore experience anyway – I would point to Nobbel who does WoW lore and he actually gets guilds to run him through the real raid instances instead of doing LFR.
It won’t retain retiring raiders, if they’re stickin around in the game for 6 months for 1 evening of LFR then they are clearly staying for other things (which is a good thing) and we don;t need this abomination brought to our shores.
Actually I don’t have to reach to RTS. I am pretty sure that the living story season 2 helped Anet to retain many players. Most players just do it once for lore, and only some opt to grind it for things like Bioluminescence.
Notice I’m not saying LFR wasn’t popular with some people but I do contest your assertion that a “retiring raider” would ever consider doing them for fun, they were just depressing. They were designed so everyone could see the whole raid – notice WoW’s main story line conclusions were raids – and they were not there as a substitute for “people who wanted to raid but didn’t have the time” because they weren’t raiding, they were attacking a target dummy dressed up as a raid with nothing that made a raid a raid.
I think it depends on why they retired from raiding. If it’s because they are tired of mindlessly farming raid instances over and over again, to satisfy the attendance required by raid guilds, then sure, it’s possible that they won’t be interested in LFR, either. However, if it’s because they no longer have the time for raids, then it depends on whether they are interested in stories, i.e., the lore. If they are, they may choose to do LFR a few times for lore, instead of for loot, and stay in the game longer between expansions. Even though the story line in WoW is far inferior to Warcraft 3, it’s still better to have the access to the story line instead of not having it entirely.
And there you’ve said it, “they will maybe do it a few times for lore” that is not retention… That is one run to see the cutscenes and dialogue if you’re paying attention, that is not worth adding to the game. Just go watch WP anyway for Lore :P
Also I’m not sure how heavy our GW2 raids will be on “story” all we know atm is a pact squad is missing and there seems to be a Bloodstone piece on the floor. Interesting no doubt but adding LFR (and all the trouble it brings – people feeling forced to grind it for extra loot drops and resentment over the cheapening of raids and extra development time required). Uuurgh it was not a provably good thing for WoW and all my memories of it were awful and please don’t bring it here.
I think it’s retention…People mostly do single-player campaigns in real-time strategy games such as starcraft and warcraft (not wow) for lore (you don’t need so many episodes to learn how to use the units), but these campaigns are created anyway.
you cannot design a game that will grant the same experience to 12-90 yr olds in all professions in all desired focuses of life.
Exactly, but the problem about it is that they designed and sold the game to someone…and after a while, totally changed direction.
Erm.. They announced Challenging Group Content as soon as HoT was spoken about – you were sold CGC and Raids, if you bought HoT you’re getting what they advertised. HoT was sold on the inclusion of raids (dsignated CGC initially but raids have been spoken about for a long time now), you cannot buy it and complain you were mislead somehow…
Challenging group content is not necessarily raids. As many have observed, if raids are implemented in a style similar to fractals, then it’s still challenging, without requiring people to have huge blocks of time for it.
Notice I’m not saying LFR wasn’t popular with some people but I do contest your assertion that a “retiring raider” would ever consider doing them for fun, they were just depressing. They were designed so everyone could see the whole raid – notice WoW’s main story line conclusions were raids – and they were not there as a substitute for “people who wanted to raid but didn’t have the time” because they weren’t raiding, they were attacking a target dummy dressed up as a raid with nothing that made a raid a raid.
I think it depends on why they retired from raiding. If it’s because they are tired of mindlessly farming raid instances over and over again, to satisfy the attendance required by raid guilds, then sure, it’s possible that they won’t be interested in LFR, either. However, if it’s because they no longer have the time for raids, then it depends on whether they are interested in stories, i.e., the lore. If they are, they may choose to do LFR a few times for lore, instead of for loot, and stay in the game longer between expansions. Even though the story line in WoW is far inferior to Warcraft 3, it’s still better to have the access to the story line instead of not having it entirely.
you cannot design a game that will grant the same experience to 12-90 yr olds in all professions in all desired focuses of life.
Anet always says that GW2 is revolutionary:P Well, actually Blizzard essentially managed to make all content available to everyone (or at least one version of it containing the entire story) after they implemented LFR. This is done even though their player base is more hardcore.
Yup and how many expansions did WoW have before they implemented LFR?
They did do it in the end. Anet can learn from others’ experience and do it much sooner. When we learned, say, physics in high school, we only spent several years on it, instead of spending hundreds of years which were needed for physicists to create the theory that is taught in textbooks.
By the way, even after Blizzard implemented LFR in Cataclysm, most of the players who quit WOW when they no longer had the time for raids did not return to WoW, even though they played 30+ hours of WoW per week when they had the time. We can wait to see the same thing happen to GW2, or Anet programmers can learn from this and do it right from the very beginning.
People left in Cata because of many things (the giant wait between it and pandas with only an 8 boss raid for a year being a main issue), infact the raiding community is one of the strongest and most stable WoW has and in its current expansion the raids were the main target of praise. You cannot ask LFR to be implemented as a benefit to the system when WotLK didn’t have it and held onto its players better than any other expansion after (the current one dropping so dramaticly at the beginning of this year).
While I essentially agree with what you said regarding wow subscriptions, I’d like to mention that we are looking at different aspects. It is true that the raid community is stable in WoW, but the actual players who are currently raiding change over time. Most players who had the time for raids eventually quit raiding. My opinion is that, if Blizzard had implemented LFR much earlier, many of these players who quit raiding wouldn’t have quit the game entirely.
(edited by MyriadStars.5679)
you cannot design a game that will grant the same experience to 12-90 yr olds in all professions in all desired focuses of life.
Anet always says that GW2 is revolutionary:P Well, actually Blizzard essentially managed to make all content available to everyone (or at least one version of it containing the entire story) after they implemented LFR. This is done even though their player base is more hardcore.
Don’t get scared, non-elite players. We tried the raid as a pug group and had lot’s of fun. It wasn’t like: BOOM, all bads die. We made progress each try.
Even though it’s brutal hard to kill the boss, it’s decently designed to feel rewarding even for pugs, when dealing with certain mechanics. You’ll die a lot, but you’ll also learn a lot.
Don’t get discouraged! Pug up and learn. Then come back with a more organised group.
If each raid wing contains one boss only plus some mini bosses, then sure, there is no need to fear. However, if a raid wing contains 5+ bosses and your progress is reset every week, then raids = time sinks, which are typical MMO traps which GW2 was advertised to avoid when it was released.
Progress is not reset.
Did you mean that if I kill the first two bosses and stop playing the game for 2 months, I can directly attempt the 3rd boss after I return to GW2?
Yes.
It’s based on a permanent gate system, like the living story. Complete boss 1 to unlock boss 2, you can now do boss 2 whenever you want.
That’s not what is said in the GW2 wiki:
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Raid“Progress within a raid will be saved for players that leave the instance. Restarting an instance will remember progress made if created before the weekly reset.”
Therefore, if you kill the first boss before the weekly reset, you have to kill him again, unless you find someone who killed the first boss after the weekly reset to start the raids.
If Anet changed their mind and use what you said to implement the weekly reset, then it would acceptable, though not ideal.
I encourage you to go watch the raid stream from twitchcon. They were quite clear about this.
That refers to progress within a wing. If you have progressed up to, but not beaten the boss in a wing and come back before the reset all previous encounters will remain completed so you don’t have to repeat them.
I knew this, and I also know that reset is done every week. Therefore, your progress made before the reset is lost when they reset it on a weekly basis.
Yes, but it’s progress within one wing, and each wing is a “single session” chunk of content if done successfully, 1-2 hours worth, which you can spread out over an entire week if you’re failing repeatedly and learning the encounters.
The raid as a whole is split up in to wings, so when you reach that “checkpoint” of killing the first boss, that progress is never reset. You will never have to kill that first boss, or any of the trash that leads up to him, ever again unless you want to do it for more/different loot.
We do have to wait to see if each raid wing can be cleared in 1 hour. If this is the case, then Anet should announce it, because this means that raids in GW2 are very, very different from raids in other MMOs, and proves that Anet is true to their manifesto.
By the way, even after Blizzard implemented LFR in Cataclysm, most of the players who quit WOW when they no longer had the time for raids did not return to WoW, even though they played 30+ hours of WoW per week when they had the time. We can wait to see the same thing happen to GW2, or Anet programmers can learn from this and do it right from the very beginning.
Don’t get scared, non-elite players. We tried the raid as a pug group and had lot’s of fun. It wasn’t like: BOOM, all bads die. We made progress each try.
Even though it’s brutal hard to kill the boss, it’s decently designed to feel rewarding even for pugs, when dealing with certain mechanics. You’ll die a lot, but you’ll also learn a lot.
Don’t get discouraged! Pug up and learn. Then come back with a more organised group.
If each raid wing contains one boss only plus some mini bosses, then sure, there is no need to fear. However, if a raid wing contains 5+ bosses and your progress is reset every week, then raids = time sinks, which are typical MMO traps which GW2 was advertised to avoid when it was released.
Progress is not reset.
Did you mean that if I kill the first two bosses and stop playing the game for 2 months, I can directly attempt the 3rd boss after I return to GW2?
No I think he meant your knowledge of the bosses you’ve killed will remain after the reset and your pulls next week will benefit from that.
When progressing through ICC Heroic in WoW we spent the first week dealing with only 2 bosses, by the end we could clear the whole thing in 1 evening (it had something like 11 bosses I think). Progression is not reset.
I knew that, as I helped my WoW guild learn the entire BWL in vanilla WoW. However, from my previous experience, I also learned that it is false that skill level is the only gating to raids. The amount of available free time is the primary gating. Furthermore, I also learned that 90% of the players who had the time for raids at some stage of their life normally stopped having such time sooner or later. Therefore, people who do have the time for raids now should know that what others are currently asking for will ultimately benefit them in a few years’ time.
Don’t get scared, non-elite players. We tried the raid as a pug group and had lot’s of fun. It wasn’t like: BOOM, all bads die. We made progress each try.
Even though it’s brutal hard to kill the boss, it’s decently designed to feel rewarding even for pugs, when dealing with certain mechanics. You’ll die a lot, but you’ll also learn a lot.
Don’t get discouraged! Pug up and learn. Then come back with a more organised group.
If each raid wing contains one boss only plus some mini bosses, then sure, there is no need to fear. However, if a raid wing contains 5+ bosses and your progress is reset every week, then raids = time sinks, which are typical MMO traps which GW2 was advertised to avoid when it was released.
Progress is not reset.
Did you mean that if I kill the first two bosses and stop playing the game for 2 months, I can directly attempt the 3rd boss after I return to GW2?
Yes.
It’s based on a permanent gate system, like the living story. Complete boss 1 to unlock boss 2, you can now do boss 2 whenever you want.
That’s not what is said in the GW2 wiki:
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Raid“Progress within a raid will be saved for players that leave the instance. Restarting an instance will remember progress made if created before the weekly reset.”
Therefore, if you kill the first boss before the weekly reset, you have to kill him again, unless you find someone who killed the first boss after the weekly reset to start the raids.
If Anet changed their mind and use what you said to implement the weekly reset, then it would acceptable, though not ideal.
I encourage you to go watch the raid stream from twitchcon. They were quite clear about this.
That refers to progress within a wing. If you have progressed up to, but not beaten the boss in a wing and come back before the reset all previous encounters will remain completed so you don’t have to repeat them.
I knew this, and I also know that reset is done every week. Therefore, your progress made before the reset is lost when they reset it on a weekly basis.
Don’t get scared, non-elite players. We tried the raid as a pug group and had lot’s of fun. It wasn’t like: BOOM, all bads die. We made progress each try.
Even though it’s brutal hard to kill the boss, it’s decently designed to feel rewarding even for pugs, when dealing with certain mechanics. You’ll die a lot, but you’ll also learn a lot.
Don’t get discouraged! Pug up and learn. Then come back with a more organised group.
If each raid wing contains one boss only plus some mini bosses, then sure, there is no need to fear. However, if a raid wing contains 5+ bosses and your progress is reset every week, then raids = time sinks, which are typical MMO traps which GW2 was advertised to avoid when it was released.
Progress is not reset.
Did you mean that if I kill the first two bosses and stop playing the game for 2 months, I can directly attempt the 3rd boss after I return to GW2?
Yes.
It’s based on a permanent gate system, like the living story. Complete boss 1 to unlock boss 2, you can now do boss 2 whenever you want.
That’s not what is said in the GW2 wiki:
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Raid
“Progress within a raid will be saved for players that leave the instance. Restarting an instance will remember progress made if created before the weekly reset.”
Therefore, if you kill the first boss before the weekly reset, you have to kill him again, unless you find someone who killed the first boss after the weekly reset to start the raids.
If Anet changed their mind and use what you said to implement the weekly reset, then it would acceptable, though not ideal.
The problem is, people are not taking into account that you are asking Anet Dev’s to double up their work load, this means they need to double on future raid content as well. They do have other areas in game that need their attention, its pretty selfish to expect they should spend all their time creating multiple difficulties because you want easy.
There is a simple solution. Just implement raids using a system like fractals. Put each raid boss in a separate instance, and then it will be true that skills are the only gating.
Let’s say only 1% of the players will find enough free time to complete a raid if a raid contains many bosses. These 1% actually have to treat raid as a 2nd full-time job, instead of playing a game to relax themselves.
By doing it differently, everyone will have the time to see the content, no matter whether he can complete it or not. Wouldn’t it be more efficient for Anet to use their time to create content that everyone can attempt whenever they want to, instead of creating content that only 1% of the players can truly find time to complete? This will not make the content less challenging, as the same amount of skills are needed to complete it.
Don’t get scared, non-elite players. We tried the raid as a pug group and had lot’s of fun. It wasn’t like: BOOM, all bads die. We made progress each try.
Even though it’s brutal hard to kill the boss, it’s decently designed to feel rewarding even for pugs, when dealing with certain mechanics. You’ll die a lot, but you’ll also learn a lot.
Don’t get discouraged! Pug up and learn. Then come back with a more organised group.
If each raid wing contains one boss only plus some mini bosses, then sure, there is no need to fear. However, if a raid wing contains 5+ bosses and your progress is reset every week, then raids = time sinks, which are typical MMO traps which GW2 was advertised to avoid when it was released.
Progress is not reset.
Did you mean that if I kill the first two bosses and stop playing the game for 2 months, I can directly attempt the 3rd boss after I return to GW2?
How about this:
Why don’t they do exactly what they are doing, and try to serve some content for all types of players in stead of designing the whole game around one subset of the community?
They advertised GW2 as a game without typical MMO traps. Raids are typical MMO traps, as they are time sinks. People do have the right to complain about false advertising.
Blizzard didn’t advertise WoW as a game without MMO traps. Even they did implement LFR to make a version of raids for people who can play 60-90 minutes a time. Why can’t Anet do the same? At least they won’t be accused of bait and switch if they do so.