Guild Wars 2

/facepalm

Have fun AoE’ing with P/D.

Tulisin.6945:

Okamakiri.8746:

You’re wasting your breath. The ridiculous effectiveness of the build you describe has been discussed before, and the ignorant and the trolls didn’t want to learn anything new then either.

If even half the all-signet thieves actually ran signet synergy and built around it then this thread probably wouldn’t exist. The fact is that the majority of people who run signets don’t take any sort of signet synergy, rarely activate them, and just use them for convenience.

That doesn’t make the dismissive types any more correct for ignoring the answers of how a signet build DOES work.

I could use your logic to say the same about most people who do NOT use signets but use other terrible utilities or traits, or simply don’t use their utilities at all or at the right times during encounters. Bads will be bads regardless of what build they’re playing.

Youd.1375:

3 Signets + healing signet (also heals on hit). Traits to reduce signet cooldown, gain might and grant initiative on use. Trait to increase init regen and heal on initiative use. Sigil to heal on crit, food buff to heal on crit. Macro 3 signets to be used in one button press. Equip sword/pistol.

Result: Near infinite supply of initiative for Pistol Whip or Black Powder, effectively blinding groups of mobs or locking down a mob as long as you want (or a combination). Melee AoE that heals you (allot). Hitting 3 mobs with one Pistol Whip will heal half of your HP-pool. Evade all attacks while using Pistol Whip. Always keep Infiltrator’s strike teleport up and break every potential stun against you, or escape a tricky situation.

So, you have a thief that’s extremely hard to kill. Can chain-blind/stun forever. Can effectively “tank” groups of strong mobs (even without vitality/toughness). Does good consistent AoE DPS while healing himself. Can break every stun. Can provide Cripple and Vulnerability (if traited).

Yes, other classes has more “obvious” support to the group because they provide boons and such that are displayed in icons on your screen. You can see a boon being given to you and think “i was provided support”. It’s harder to comprehend that a mob didn’t one-shot you because he was blinded, or because all it’s strong attacks was interrupted, or because it was simply focusing a thief it can barely hit. And on the flip side, as Thieves don’t provide insane amount of clearly visible support, we also tend to not need any from others. It’s a quite independent class.

You’re wasting your breath. The ridiculous effectiveness of the build you describe has been discussed before, and the ignorant and the trolls didn’t want to learn anything new then either.

Mosharn.8357:

NightyNight.1823:

precisioNist.2071:

Predator.7321:

You’re going to be the cause us for all to be nerfed

Nah, if they nerf us without talking to me that’d be stupid. Kill Shot is ridiculously easy to avoid and not everything I’m doing to increase damage is Warrior related =P

BS combo of a thief is ridiculously easy to avoid too and yet its pretty succesful.A 33k Kill shot from 1200 range that you’ll never see it comming is quite OP.Of course Both BS and Kill Shot are bad for 1v1 but on environment such as WvW ..All I’m saying , I don’t want to see anymore Warriors whine that Thief is OP.
Now everytime I’m gonna see one of you do that, I’m just gonna link you to this thread hehe.

you can bring BS up here when you can spam KS back to back. see you next time.

Crazy BS combo requires multiple 45-60s cooldowns. see you next time.

50% of the time… works every time.

Bugged since beta. One of many pathing issues in GW2 that are being completely ignored.

Confirmed. Got me killed multiple times on boss fights.

STRanger.5120:

Okamakiri.8746:

Thieves are very squishy even when specced for survival. Currently this is balanced by our ability to stealth and do high damage. Continuous nerfs to our DPS without any compensation to our survivability will lead to the class being broken.

I don´t think that last sentence is true, pal. If we get nerfs in the terms of DPS and boosts in the term of Survivability, we won´t be Thieves anymore, we would be medium-armored-tanks, which doesn´t suit the Thief class at all imho.

The sentence is absolutely true. Whether we should end up in the state you describe is another story, and I agree with you that we shouldn’t. But if they’re dead set on continuing to nerf our damage because of whiners, then buffs to our survivability are most certainly necessary if the class is to remain viable. Survivability vs damage capability should be a relatively constant ratio for all classes.

Anyway, I don’t think this thread is meant to be a discussion between us, but a place for everyone to provide their own feedback to devs. You don’t have to agree with my feedback, but you most certainly can provide your own.

Dancing Dagger was heavily nerfed without any compensation. I never heard of anyone complaining about this ability in PVE. For non-condition D/D specs and any x/D specs, it was the only source of burst AoE.

Pistol Whip does less DPS than auto attack, roots us, yet provides evasion for less than half the duration. By rooting us, it’s often a higher risk attack then just auto attack while strafing and dodging. This ability needs to be looked at for cost/reward/risk ratios.

Backstab is a high damage attack but is single target only, which is a weakness on its own in PVE. Yet in PVP, many feel it’s overpowered. However, without Mug+CnD combo, it’s actually a perfectly balanced ability given its setup requirements. If you decide to do any further balancing around this ability, please keep that in mind. Nerfing the Backstab ability itself will destroy the viability of any PVE builds that rely on it.

Thieves are very squishy even when specced for survival. Currently this is balanced by our ability to stealth and do high damage. Continuous nerfs to our DPS without any compensation to our survivability will lead to the class being broken.

I found the thread on 11th page.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Signet-Thief-PvE-Dungeon-high-survivability-dps/first#post674511

Recently someone posted a link to a very effective S/P build (can’t find the thread now… it’s been buried in hundreds of worthless threads) that relies on initiative regen from crits trait and trait that gives 2 initiative on signet usage. With reduced signet cooldown trait, healing from Signet of Malice and evasion from PW, the author was claiming that he was able to keep up PW spam for nearly a minute while putting out ridiculous damage and solo tanking most of the mobs in the dungeon runs.

I have tested this build in solo PVE (not dungeons yet) and can confirm that it does indeed work, though it’s a bit boring. Don’t judge people and jump to conclusions until you have all the facts.

Braxxus.2904:

Maullus.1273:

Although, it might be better to say: If you usually play melee warrior-type characters in other games, then you will not find the warrior of GW2 boring.

Unfortunately I disagree with you here. I ALWAYS play a melee character as my main out of preference. However I find the complexity that exists in the warrior/melee types of other games to be severely lacking in the warrior of GW2. In WoW on my prot war we had stance dancing and it seperated the common warrior from the greats. It added depth and a higher skill-ceiling to the class.

In WAR we had the chosen for instance with aura cycling, which was for all intents and purposes a variation of stance dancing. In AoC the guardian had stance dancing and the bear shaman had manifest molding (which was my main and was basically our hammer/shout warrior done far better). Even in LotRO the melee classes had more complex design, no real pvp to speak of, but even in PvE the warden, capt. etc had depth.

In GW2 warriors lack this depth and really the classes that exemplify what the class design is missing can be found in the ele and engi for example, both of which are designed superbly imo.

I find my warrior depressing, but I keep playing him because at my core I just really want to play a warrior archetype.

QFMFT

Boredom is why I stopped playing my warrior after hitting 80.

Recently.1043:

Jasher.6580:

19k-25k hundred blades is okay… yet they nerfed pistol whip… I’m genuinely confused. Both root the character, both are channelled attacks, yet the guy with the heavy armour and high health gets to keep that ridiculous damage.

Confused.

Lets not mention that the thief is immune to damage during the cast animation, and that pistol whip also stuns the target for 1 second.

Because partial information in a vacuum is useful.

Lets not mention that out of the ~2.6s cast of PW, only about 1s of it provides evasion, and the stun is only 0.5s.

Because making stuff up is useful.

STRanger.5120:

Zawaka.5170:

Yeah I didn’t run back stab cause its not viable in competitive play and then they nerfed my dancing daggers to garbage. My team just kicked me they said if i cant play guardian then they will find some one else…

You have really dumb ppl in the team, right?
I play darts in RL competitively, and it´s like if we kick our player because he had a bad day and performance once… You should find a team with a normal people and forget about those nut-cases….

No, it’s not like that at all. To use your analogy, it’s like kicking a player because his arm got chopped off and now he can only throw darts with his weaker arm.

If I re-roll to anything, it will be to a different game.

Tulisin.6945:

Pirhana.8935:

Dancing dagger is for cripple so you can get on your target, I could care less about the damage, i wish they would remove the damage and increase cripple time or lower to 3 int.

Which just demonstrates the gap in logic about how different mainhands use this ability differently. You use it primarily for the cripple with dagger mainhand, while it was used primarily for the burst damage with sword mainhand. You’d be having the same complaints if their balancing measure was to remove cripple, since it’d no longer serve in your capacity while still being useful to other weapon sets.

And yet I used it as D/D in PVE as my primary AoE on <4 targets, since DB sucks for non-condition specs. So his statement is nothing more than his personal opinion. The nerf was definitely overboard, and I feel we got hit twice:

- Fixed a bug that caused many piercing, boomerang, and bouncing projectiles (those that hit more than 1 target) to continually increase in damage the more targets they hit.

- Dancing Dagger: This skill’s damage has been reduced by 50%.

The idiocy and fanboism in this thread is astounding. Not releasing planned changes WEEKS in advance is a terrible practice in any game. In 10+ years of MMOs, I have seen countless of examples of terrible design decisions being reversed or changed prior to patch going live because people were given ample time to discuss them, do the math, and bring to light issues with them BEFORE the devs just push them live and potentially cause permanent damage to the game. Using “get rich quick” schemes as an excuse to avoid this common industry practice is just pure stupidity.

Btw, it’s also a terrible practice to NOT have a scheduled down time for patches and hotfixes and to feel it’s perfectly fine to kitten on your customers with a 3 minute notice before you boot them from the game while they’re in the middle of an event or a dungeon run. Anyone defending such practice is either ignorant or blinded with their infatuation for the game.

This post will probably be deleted for making too much sense and being too blunt for this sensitive community.

Oxygen.5918:

Volrath.1473:

Oxygen.5918:

http://i.imgur.com/ROgm3.png

Screenshot sent by a friend when we were duelling. I was the perpetrator. Could’ve been about 6k higher if I had specced into executionner (which I had hidden killer).

yeah man! i can photoshop too

Wasn’t a shop. I’ll do it again if you like. I’ll even film it.

Go ahead, film it. Make sure to include stats and traits for both of you.

Tulisin.6945:

Okamakiri.8746:

Tulisin.6945:

In the latter, most of the high-burst setups people are using in PvP are completely unviable in PvE. PvE rewards constant ability to kill enemies at a quick and safe pace, whereas PvP (at least in this situation) rewards a single quick kill followed by a period of recuperation.

Speak for yourself. I absolutely love my BS build in PVE and I don’t use a bunch of utility skills to line up one huge backstab, which is why I’m strongly against nerfing the base ability. BS is fine, overpowered cooldowns (which ALL professions have) are the real cause of all nerf cries. They’ve already ruined S/P in PVE because of PVP whiners. If they destroy BS builds too in PVE, I’m done with this game.

If you aren’t trying to “line up one huge backstab” then you aren’t using a high-burst setup, are you? You would probably be better off in PvE if the raw damage of backstab was replaced with something a little more synergized and useful. Futhermore, S/P is still pretty viable in PvE as a no-brainer setup that requires very little action to be effective. The PW nerf was poorly executed, but its AE capability along with evade means it still retains some PvE use.

Backstab is, on paper, “fine”. It is, however, also boring. Even if TTK in PvP wasn’t a problem using instant closers and precast stealth to negate the setup requirement for backstab I’d still say it is a bland ability in need of some spice.

I am using 10/30/30/0/0 BS spec. I very much am burst specced and geared and I enjoy the high risk/high reward gameplay in PVE. I DON’T find it boring, in fact it’s the only spec/profession combo I still find interesting anymore. The whole game feels very simplistic and dumbed down, I like having to manage a resource, timing and positioning of my attacks constantly. I don’t want it ruined or changed because of PVPers. So no, I would not “be better off in PvE if the raw damage of backstab was replaced with” anything.

Redscope.6215:

troll verbal diarrhea

My first 80 was a warrior. Aside from lame utilities and overall just being the most boring class in game, you really don’t have that much to complain about. Your post history is filled with lies and exaggerations. Just cut your anti-thief crusade bs and go troll the warrior forums.

Tulisin.6945:

In the latter, most of the high-burst setups people are using in PvP are completely unviable in PvE. PvE rewards constant ability to kill enemies at a quick and safe pace, whereas PvP (at least in this situation) rewards a single quick kill followed by a period of recuperation.

Speak for yourself. I absolutely love my BS build in PVE and I don’t use a bunch of utility skills to line up one huge backstab, which is why I’m strongly against nerfing the base ability. BS is fine, overpowered cooldowns (which ALL professions have) are the real cause of all nerf cries. They’ve already ruined S/P in PVE because of PVP whiners. If they destroy BS builds too in PVE, I’m done with this game.

- Balance is about compromise and making changes that don’t break any aspect of the game. Sometimes that requires multiple concurrent changes to offset the one desired balancing change, not lazy fixes that many only-PVPers suggest. If ANet has any common sense, that’s the approach they will be taking. Examples so far:
a) BAD APPROACH:
Problem: PW + Quickness is broken . PW without Quickness mediocre at best.
Solution: They nerf PW. PW + Quickness still a problem. PW in PVE is garbage.

b) GOOD APPROACH:
Problem: BS + Assassin’s Signet does too much burst. BS without signet is solid single target damage ability, balanced in PVE by the fact that it has bad AoE, a common PVE setting.
Solution: Assassin’s Signet changed from +50% dmg on next attack to +15% damage on next 5 attacks. PVP burst reduced, PVE viability of BS untouched. Signet now viable for other build in PVP AND PVE.

- WoW is one of several MMOs, and just one of many competitive games I played. You of course chose to only mention WoW in some feeble attempt to discredit me. At least WoW balances with both PVP and PVE in mind. Btw, my favorite PVP in an MMO was WAR (T1-T3, T4 sucked).

- Vocal majority, paying minority. PVPers are known as the loudest and whiniest bunch in every game. Majority of players never even visit the forums, let alone post on them.

You can huff and puff all you want, but gaming companies know what brings in the money and retains customers. And at the end of the day, that’s the only thing that matters to corporations. I know it might be hard for you to comprehend, but there is a reason why majority of GW2 financial and development effort was spent on PVE and why PVP has only one scenario type and four maps.

P.S. I’ve done my share of PVP over the years. Rank 14 in vanilla WoW, ex-gladiator, various FPSs (the only REAL PVP imo), etc. But I’m not arrogant or naive to think that’s all that matters, or even matters the most in MMOs. If ANet DOES listen to you, they’ll end up in the same place as all the other MMOs that ignored the majority of their player base.

Yeah, we don’t have enough noobs calling for nerfs already. Lets make a thieves guild that’s guaranteed to get the class nerfed even more. Not trying to poop on your parade, just stating the inevitable.

DesertRose.2031:

Have you “PvP changes break PvE”-guys have ever considered that if a specific skill, trait or a combination of them is so strong that it outshines all other options of the profession or even all profession and thus is nerfed may have been too strong in PvE, too?

Absolutely not, because blowing up one mob in 2 seconds and then fighting the rest of the mobs for the next minute in a crippled state without your cooldowns is neither overpowered nor a good strategy for any PVEer. PVE is about sustained DPS, not blowing your load in 2 seconds and being flacid for the next minute.

Sylosi.6503:

Lol, in most MMORPGs, when someone who does PvP complains about balance, the response they often get is “this is a PvE game, go play LoL”

Really? What are these “most MMORPGs” where that is the case? I’ve been dying to find an MMO that isn’t ruined by the whiniest demographic of gamers, i.e. PVPers. While I do enjoy occasional PVP, I have always said that tailoring to that demographic is spelling doom to your MMO. They generally carry no loyalty to any brand, demand minimal character investment requirement, scream the loudest over every little thing, and are the first to move on to the next new “shiny” (i.e. their next MMO victim), leaving behind a broken game for PVErs.

While the change to Assassination Signet was actually a good one with respect to other thief specs and weapons, the general trend of “balancing” due to PVP has been a very poor one, and PVE has definitely been suffering for it. PW nerf is a perfect example of that. Everyone knew the real culprit behind PW nerf cries as well as a number of other class builds is Quickness, but instead of nerfing that broken stat they nerfed a perfectly balanced weapon ability. PW + quickness in PVP is still almost as effective as it was, while PW in PVE without quickness is mediocre at best.

Artanis.4160:

NightyNight.1823:

No it gave you the chance to actualy counter it and not direcly be burst down in 1 shot.

If you can’t counter it before, you won’t be able to counter it now.
4k + 4k + 15k = dead
5k + 5k + 12k still = dead lol

So your backstabs do over 10k without signet? I would love to face the squishies you’re fighting… The highest BS I’ve seen WITH signet and might stacks is 9k. But that’s in sPvP, posting numbers from WvW is pointless.

I agree. S/P is very effective but on the same level of boring and cheese as all the other classes. I play thief because D/D gameplay pace is faster and more exciting than others. The constant strafing, dodging and positional awareness is what sold me on the class. I dropped my 80 warrior to level a thief. After hitting 80, I realized I should’ve made a human, so now I’m leveling another one :P

And? No leveling or gear barrier in sPvP = all scrubs trying the supposed fotm. When they realize it’s not what it’s made out to be they go back to failing on their mains.

Logs from WvW hold little merit, due to potential for gear inequality, level inequality, orb buffs, etc. To have any kind of a discussion you have to bring to table numbers from a controlled environment with reproducible results. That means knowing the damage stats of the attacker and defense stats of the target. Unfortunately, since anet has failed to add dueling, sPvP is the closest you can get to that. Fortunately however, anyone who wants to see thieves nerfed can create one and instantly have access to all the best gear in the game, and can therefore proceed to create their own proof (or can try to at least).

Ivonbeton.6814:

Not really. While thieves don’t have the best damage, they’re not lackluster in comparison to other classes. I’m not saying this to be mean, but this is so typical what’s wrong with the thief class. So many people playing it like they would play a rogue in WoW. Yet thief has so many unmatched utility skills for both himself and his party. Combine that with mobility and damage, it’s really nothing lackluster about it if you know how to use it.

I feel so useless in a lot of situations when I’m not playing thief.

I didn’t say thief was lackluster, I said their AoE damage is in comparison to their single target DPS or other classes’ AoE capability. Learn to read.

As for utilities, they don’t really offer much. I’ve never seen anyone spam chat for thief for dungeon run, I’ve seen plenty spam for guardian. On the contrary, I’ve heard of people refusing to take thieves.

All that said, I love the class. But I’m not about to play a weaker spec just for the sake of being unique.

Tulisin.6945:

Dagins.5163:

they are designed for bursting down a single target,

It would be more correct to say that players design builds to burst down a single target. It isn’t an attribute of the profession as much as it is with player engagement doctrine.

Not really. While thieves do have AoE abilities, they’re quite lackluster in comparison to other classes, and especially in comparison to their single target damage. You could say something similar about all classes, as they all have their strengths and weaknesses. It’s only natural that players would try to capitalize on whatever the class excels at.

I love my backstab build in PVE. I run 0/30/30/10/0. With aoe blind on entering stealth, being able to enter stealth every 3s, being able to stay in stealth for 4s to regen hp/remove conditions, you can take on large packs of mobs even though most of your damage is single target. In a pinch you can also fall back on #4 ability to kite up to 4 mobs keeping them perma-snarred. It also does decent damage on multiple targets. I use SB as a secondary weapon for extreme situations that call for a lot of AoE.

EasymodeX.4062:

The most obvious indicator that random Thief posters don’t know what they’re talking about is that they discuss the concept of “using CnD again”. Using full Berserker gear, the combo exceeds 30k damage on a glass level 80 target in full exotics. Even against tougher targets with missed crits, the degree of damage puts them near death and/or leaves the rest of the encounter as trivial.

I see you posting this nonsense in multiple threads yet not a single shred of proof. It’s simply not true, and the math backs it up. As glass canon spec, most of my backstabs in sPvP CRIT for 3-4k. With signet might stacks + assassin’s signet I saw 8k crit once on another glass canon a few days ago. Even with Mug and CnD critting on top of that, that’s a far cry from your mythical 30k. Stop trolling.

Knyx.5926:

Yukishiro.8792:

Backstab is ok, assassin’s signet and quickness are not.

If quickness is touched Sword will have to be redesigned

Weapons should be viable outside of overpowered cooldowns. If a weapon set is deemed UP without quickness and OP with it, then clearly the problem is quickness and should therefore be balanced. Then and only then can many of the other weapons be brought in line with each other. Thiefs aren’t the only ones suffering from quickness dependency either. If it was up to me, the stat would be removed completely. I’d rather have high sustained DPS then crazy DPS 6% of the time. But then again, I primarily PVE, so I don’t have the luxury of downtime between kills.

Jjiinx.8795:

aleiro, I’ll try that, it just really caught me off guard when such a heavily armored player dealt such extreme burst

Sigh… Another common misconception. In this game there is hardly any difference between armor types.

Full set of lvl 80 exotic light gear: 920 defense
Full set of lvl 80 exotic medium gear: 1064 defense
Full set of lvl 80 exotic heavy gear: 1211 defense

Majority of your armor, and hence your mitigation, comes from your toughness rating, which has nothing to do with you class and everything to do with your choice of traits and stats.

If anything, the heavy armor classes are not tanky enough in this game.

I agree. I find all the other classes extremely boring because they don’t have to worry about managing any resource.

If all they nerf is Mug and Assassin’s Signet, that will greatly reduce PVP burst while leaving PVE sustained DPS unaffected. Sounds fair to me.

“I have no problem with Thieves”

“I hope they nerf Thief to the ground. Not only is it totally imbalanced class from any point of view, but thief players are also not humble players glad they are playing OP class.”

Nothing to see here…

Ability #3 makes perfect sense if you play the set as an actual ranged set, and not a gimmick melee set. I love this set in PVE for kiting multiple mobs. Between #4 and #3 abilities, you can keep up to 4 mobs perma snared and teleport away if they ever catch up to you.

Norn aren’t any slower, just far easier to read. A larger target makes larger animations and thus is easier to see what they’re doing, which way they’re facing, what kind of weapon they’re holding. Playing as a larger race also make it harder to see around you, since you have to zoom out more just so your character is not taking up half your screen and so you can even see what’s directly in front of you. Most things you fight in game will be smaller than you and hence harder for you to see what they’re doing unless you’re constantly adjusting your camera.

Similarly, a smaller target hides more easily in the chaos of things. Asura characters are very hard to read what they’re doing, hence harder to counter their moves properly. They can also hide under other character bodies or just get lost in the chaos of splashy animations when there is a bunch of people fighting over a node in sPvP or even worse in WvW. If the game had cast bars telling what someone is casting like every other MMO, this wouldn’t be a blatant PVP advantage.

Predicting abilities by reading avatar animations may sound like a great idea in theory, but in reality is a terrible design. It forces anyone who wants to be competitive in PVP to roll an Asura.

Shooopa.5632:

mrsrachelm.7618:

Trismegistos.3046:

tl;dr

pve player should shelf GW2 altogether.
and install it when he becomes a pvp player.

:P

PvP is not the only type of play style nor the ONLY one people enjoy. I very much dislike the attitude of PvP’rs who seem to think that all games should or do revolve around them and them alone and PvE’rs are nothing but second class players. Take that elitist attitude elsewhere, thanks. I have the utmost respect for PvP’rs and the skills required for that style of play. I can do it and have, I simply don’t enjoy it. What I don’t respect is the idea that ONLY PvP’rs exist in a game or that only PvP is worthy of time or consideration by gamers or game developers.

I think it’s more of a jab at how nearly all the thief’s traits are geared for PvP and nothing else.

It’s not easy doing PvE with a thief.

No it was a clear attack on PVE’rs. He said “pve player”, not “pve thief”, and he also said should leave GW2 all together, not reroll another class. I love my thief in PVE (and find many traits very useful, more useful than PVP actually) and have no interest in PVP in this game (ironic as how most people think that’s its focus… even though most of the development effort clearly went into PVE). I am so sick and tired of PVP’ers ruining every every single MMO that comes out, and then moving on to their next victim leaving behind a broken game for PVE’rs.

Stin.9781:

If quickness needs to be removed tell me, how many builds are gonna be gone from viable pvp ?

Any build (of any class) that relies on Quickness is a noob spec. A stat that doubles your DPS is overpowered no matter how you try to justify it. Cooldowns that create such burst remove any strategy that comes into play with prolonged combat. In a game that prides itself on balance and skill based PVP, it’s laughable that they event when live with abilities that allow people to get instagibbed. I don’t want to see any class nerfed (especially in PVE) because of PVPers using unbalanced cooldowns. If there is a problem, nerf the cooldowns, not core class abilities. Without cooldowns, BS hits hard but nothing unbalanced. Its damage is inversely proportional to the survivability of the thief using it.

Quickeness should be removed from the game. It’s the #1 cause of all nerf calls.

Assassin’s Signet on-use ability should be completely re-designed. Thiefs don’t need anymore burst nor do we need a nerf to our sustained DPS because of PVP nubs.