Guild Wars 2

Esprit Dumort.3109:

multivira.7925:

Use this to your advantage and go full out tank spec. You’ll be able to get some insane HP with some of the gear and while they start wondering why on earth they couldn’t kill you your teammates will have an easy time killing them.

Fortunately most don’t do that. So when a team puts them in the middle as bait or they are killed first, the sight of downed players really affects morale, and can easily sway the direction of battle, scaring off the cowards., and making that house of cards fall

Most people seriously don’t build tanky for WvW? Seriously? I don’t even know what to think.

My rule of thumb is to base it off of how much healing you expect to get and how much cleansing you expect to get. Toughness makes healing more efficient. Vitality makes it less efficient. If you have a lot of healing sources then you can probably get by with less toughness. If you only have one, then you will probably want as much toughness as possible so you can squeeze every ounce of heal efficiency out as possible. You’ll also want as many cleanses as you can get (Consume Conditions does double duty here as both heal and cleanse), because bleeds will hurt way more.

I tried sPvP during beta and at release. I hated it intensely and never went back. Then I read that I could get laurels for doing my PvP Monthly, so I went to the mists and gave it another try. After a few hours of frustration and getting totally stomped most matches by premade teams I started to get how the matches worked and did some tweaking to my build to provide a bit more support and defense to my team. I did a few more hotjoins to iron the kinks out, and decided to give the solo queue tournaments a try. My PUG team got stomped, but this time I did something very bad.

We were losing so bad that I just stayed dead and watched the enemy team for a bit to see how they were beating us so well. I was impressed, and they showed some fairly amazing teamwork. I’d never seen anything like that in WvW or Dungeons. These guys knew each other’s builds inside and out, and worked remarkably well together.

Now, I actually kind of like PvP and will probably keep doing. It’s unlikely that I’ll join a guild or be part of any premade team, but the laurel Carrot on a Stick has drawn me into a portion of the game that I had totally written off as a waste of time. In addition, fighting against teams that far outmatch my own skill level has given me an opportunity to learn different ways that professions can work together that I never would have been exposed to otherwise.

And all I had to do was feed some dudes an easy win in tPvP a few times.

I like the change, and hope it sticks around. Not everyone is “just in it for their monthly,” though that might be why they tried it the first time.

rchu.8945:

I agree with the taking undefended keeps should offer lower points, however I dont agree why should masses of people incur penalty in WvW. WvW is about massive battles, and yet the “look at me syndrome” people want to feel special and have the world stage all to themselves. It’s like Anet is obligated to create these “heroic” moments for everyone, it’s just ridiculous.

A penalty for huge zergs isn’t to make “heroic moments.” It’s to keep the content playable. Taking a defended keep in less than 2-5 minutes is dumb. That’s not a fortification. It’s a speed bump. But with 50 people and 2 rams beating on it a keep door lasts less than a minute. Keep lords die instantly. Keep guards are barely a nuisance.

The combat mechanics are all designed around groups of 5-10 people. Once you get beyond that threshold it all starts to break down. Heck, the only thing I actually enjoy about sPvP is that combat works the way it was designed.

Anchoku.8142:

This is actually what I am hoping a Spectral build becomes if Arenanet gets around to fixing it. When traited, a fixed Spectral build would have reduced damage output because none of the utilities will do damage but faster LF generation, reduced incoming damage from nearly constant protection, and both weakness and vulnerability stacking should mitigate other professions’ higher damage output.

A Spectral build could be a real tank, a relatively toothless one, even compared to typical Necromancer builds, but it would serve to prolong the fight like the profession is supposed to do. Spectral Armor needs a shorter CD, even when traited, and Spectral Wall is a bit too easy to dodge. If Necromancer had 100% protection uptime when traited for it and a little more access to non-damaging conditions, it, too, could be an impressive tank like the other professions’ tank builds.

One large barrier to this is that our +Boon Duration line doesn’t really provide any boons. You get 5s of Retaliation on heal, 3s of Protection on well usage, and a 20% reduced CD on staff skills. So…..perma Regen. Awesome……

Zogyark.4597:

It’s still pretty meh, I see no point in weakening enemies for so long specially in PvE, they’ll be dead before you know it, this would seem good against bosses actually but usually they have some sort of defense vs conditions so a 10 sec weakness lasts like 1 second.

I could see it somewhat work on pvp though but I’d rather take something else.

I think Weakness is designed to starve people of dodges more than reduce their damage output (in pvp at least). The glancing hits portion of the debuff stinks of something that was tacked on to be useful in PvE.

Even so, I’ve yet to make up my mind about how useful it really is. It’s hard to tell if someone you’re fighting is out of endurance or if they’re just bad at dodging.

Kraag Deadsoul.2789:

Zogyark.4597:

In my opinion it would be the CPC, but mostly because I don’t pvp much though I don’t think I would use it there either I think any well is much more useful and I don’t like weakening myself for 6seconds.

I haven’t made much use of CPC in the past. However, after reading this thread and specifically the post above, it got me thinking, “What’s the downside to CPC?” The answer for many, apparently, is the self-weakening effect. As Necromancers, let’s think this through. Is there any way to take the disadvantage of a self-inflicted condition and turn it to our advantage?

There’s more than one solution. However, after playing around with it yesterday, here is what I’ve come up with:

1) Cast CPC.

2) Follow up with Staff #3 Chilblains. This stacks some additional poison duration on top of CPC’s as well as chills the opponents inside the AoE, making it more difficult for them to escape. Alternately, cast Chilblains first to slow down your enemies prior to casting CPC. If focusing on a single target, perhaps open up with Dagger #2 Dark Pact to immobilize them, instead.

3) Finish with Staff #4 Putrid Mark. This will transfer the self-inflicted weakness of CPC to the enemies inside the cloud. What’s more, Putrid Mark is a blast finisher while Chilblains and CPC are both poison fields. This yields a combo that applies…wait for it…Area Weakness (+5 seconds).

In PvE I found it quite easy to stack 30 seconds of weakness on a group of enemies in addition to the poison of Chilblains and CPC. Chilblains chill is just icing on the cake. With CPC’s 40 second recharge, enemies can potentially be weakened 75% of the time with proper positioning.

I have yet to conduct testing in WvWvW. I don’t expect to achieve equal effectiveness as compared to PvE unless facing a static zerg head-butting a door. However, I still think it will have utility in the form of pressuring opponents, zone control, and forcing them to waste dodges and condition removal.

So instead of thinking of CPC as a lackluster utility that inflicts weakness on the caster, think of it as our sixth well skill; Well of Weakness. Combine it with a Chilling Darkness-traited Well of Darkness, a Well of Corruption, and an immobilization, and you’re significantly shutting down your enemy.

You’re working too hard.

CPC is a combo field. You don’t need to cast Chillblains at all. Just drop CPC at your feet, and Staff 4 into it, and viola. You get the CPC duration, the Combo Field: Weakness duration, and the CPC self-inflicted duration all stacked on one target in 2 casts. It’s pretty nice.

I save Chillblains for if I want to do it again while CPC is on cooldown. You can finish it with the Flesh Wurm pet for extra poison duration as well.

Ok, maybe I’ve been watching too many YouTube highlights reels. But one thing I’ve seen many times is people just plain out-lasting multiple opponents. Guardians can build to be absolute tanks, with incredible healing output. Engineers can incorporate a bit of everything so they’re rather mobile, but stacking loads of boons to cut down damage and and provide decent heals. Elementalists have their D/D build that provides a huge amount of healing and mobility, though I know from personal experience that they’re very timing dependent (i.e. if you miss-time your skill rotations you die).

All of the above builds, and quite a few more (thinking of a Ranger GS build that looked like a nightmare to actually play), work because they provide loads of durability through healing or boons. Their damage output is fairly mediocre, but that doesn’t matter because they can ideally outlast opponents.

What does Necro have to offer on this front? Surely we can bring a Mediocre Damage/Amazing Durability build or two out. I know Juggermancer is a prime candidate, though I dislike actually playing it. Has anyone tweaked our Conditionmancer build to increase durability? I’ve been fiddling with it, and trying to use Weakness, Chill, Poison, and Cripple to accomplish similar results as the boon stacking Engineer but I can’t get it quite how I want it.

Anyone else have any success in well-balanced builds that can take lots of punishment over long periods of time?

And I know there was a long thread full of whining about the “Attrition” playstyle, and I don’t really want to start another one. I think we’ll all benefit from reading about what works, rather than focusing on what doesn’t.

ionix.9054:

1) 0 character progression. Carrying extra supply is not character progression to me

2) Items unique to RvR that have COMPARABLE skins to PvE. I actually have to PvE to get skins that I think are awesome. And comparable ascended options available

3) Virtually NO community. Because servers have the potential to switch there is a lack of rivalry with enemies. There is no fun trash talking via forums, no people calling eachother out, and unless I missed it no server v server forums. These rivalries/alliances are what bond a home realm.. or in this game the server.

4) Lack of indivudalism. Zerging is rampant. Unfortunately it is obvious that game companies prefer zerging. Every pvp game I play caters to this. I don’t know who the good players are, or the players that play the most. It’s an endless stream of zergs and randoms. People getting absorbed into the zerg then break away. If you asked me who the good pvp guild is on my server (small efficient, potent 5 man) I would not be able to tell you and I play a couple hours in wvwvw a night. There are so few opportunities for a nice 5v5 fight or 1v1 that I will never know who stands out

4.5) No one roams. Everyone focuses on siege. The fact that so few people want a decent 5v5 fight and would prefer to zerg train steamroll another zerg is mindboggling to me. It really, really is. It’s a new generation of players I guess. Post 2010. The 2001-2005 era of pvp is what I like.

5) No way to make money in WvWvW

6) No way to move around the map quicker

7) The SAME map for every server. God does this get old.

8) Obvious lack of interest that ANET has in wvwvw. I feel that there is no hope.

9) Carebears. Oh my lord is this game filled with carebears. I remember a post where people were upset about being killed at a jumping puzzle in wvwvw. And offered the idea of a TRUCE IN THAT AREA. LMFAO. I am100% serious.

10) When wvwvw’ers say its about siege and my mentality is the red team blue team halo match that this game calls PvP. What ever happened to wanting to roam with your band of friends, wearing gear that is the best you can afford (maybe amazing, maybe not), fighting others who may be above or below you skill level etc. Wheres the sense of adventure? Again I guess this is a 2001-2005 mentality.

Other then this I like it.

This guy basically said it better than I could.

I think the 2001-2005 reference is obviously to DAoC, and there’s some rose tinted glasses going on as well. Zerging was rampant there just as it’s rampant here. It’s just that the Downed State combined with the AoE Cap makes it worse because there’s no penalty to having such a huge horde that you can’t see when you’ve been flanked.

Also, taking an empty keep should offer next to zero reward. I’ve seen loads of large groups just avoid a keep that has a defender because it’s faster to run to an empty one.

Finally, removing Orbs was a good idea because of the amount of hacking going on. That said, WvW is really missing something without them. I’m looking forward to when they get reintroduced in some form.

Short list for the attention deficient:

- Too Zergy; No Penalty for Huge Masses of People
- Keep Warfare Implementation seems Silly
- Orbs Need to Come Back

Zerg – A dismissive term for a group of players that outnumbers their opponents. The actual size of the group is irrelevant, as the term is used to deride a perceived lack of skill rather than accurately describe numbers.

In other words, “Zerging” doesn’t mean people are in large groups. It means people are reliant on being in large groups because they are bad. It’s an insult, not a unit of measurement.

I found Vampiric Master to be a game changer. That, along with Bloodthirst, made a minion build so easy to level. The Blood Fiend siphon was buffed right around the time I was leveling my necro, and it made powering through renown hearts and DEs pretty easy. My weapons were Dagger/Horn or Axe/Horn and off-hand Staff, mostly to give my minions perma regen.

And your first elite should be the Flesh Golem.

Condi builds are pretty bad at lower levels, and even on my 80 when I do level 50ish content I like to swap to MM. It just feels like the scaling of bleeds with level is off somehow.

As for gear, I loaded up on Toughness and Vitality wherever I could get it and used Minor/Major/Superior sigil of Bloodlust. I didn’t worry too much about gear, though. MM and Siphoning work so well because they don’t change much with gearing.

TheAgedGnome.7520:

I use Feast of Corruption all the time and it seems to work fine for me in PVE. If I load up the mob with a variety of conditions it sure seems to do more damage, and if I add vulns to the mob. it does quite a bit of damage. And since its a fast cast and it boosts Life Force, there’s no reason to not use it.

This skill is one of the reasons I’m considering dropping my Rabid jewels for Zerker or Valkyrie. I like the condi damage of the Rabid set, but I feel like Curses traits were designed around a more hybrid approach.

I leveled an Elementalist to 80, loved the class, hated that it was so squishy unless you run the “One True D/D Build.” I was also frustrated that most of the cool looking armor looks really awful on Asura. Finally, I generally like DoT style classes and there isn’t really a viable Burning/Bleeding build for Elementalist like I’d hoped. So, I made a Norn Necro and never looked back.

Fey Zeal.7032:

If they nerfed Engi’s Grenades it would be gg for them they would have no builds I bet.

HGH Dual Pistol Condi Build says hi.

It’s awesome, and makes me uncomfortable for being jealous of an Engineer.

RashanDale.3609:

Vekthor.8914:

What could make everything better is getting the next expansion to be fully (or almost fully) underwater. This way we’d have a reason for making use of underwater combat and actually have a lot of fun. Imagine fighting a dragon underwater!

while i personally would love this, most players would hate that.

i know so many people in gw2 who got killed underwater a bit too often, couldnt be bothered to improve (or just get some up-to-date weapons) and just decided that underwater combat sucks and is bad.

Which I find hilarious. I loved the underwater skills on my Elementalist, and got a few hilarious kills in WvW just because people would chase me into the water and have no clue what to do there! It was odd. They’d just stand there and take a beating, like they were reading their skills to remember what they were for.

My Necro is even more fun because we get so much mobility that I’ve been missing on dry land.

It’s kind of sad, but I actually look forward to the “Aquatic Slayer” daily.

Bhawb.7408:

I hope the meta stays so strongly towards boons. Means every pop of Corrupt boon, every drop of Well of Corruption, is just going to hit that much harder. They dug their own grave and sat in it, all I have to do is push the dirt on top.

I almost want to put that in my sig.

Panhauramix.2784:

And also about Anet’ vision of a necro and it’s real application in the game: Master of Attrition.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUkNrrJz43Q

Now while this is one of their (supposed) only good build in WvW after the last patch, I would trade all my builds choice for one build that would be able to deal with 3v1 like this while playing full rabid (attrition at his best).

Easy access to boons and Invulnerable state will trump any debuff you can bring on the table (for now because of meta) for attrition playstyle in my opinion.

That Engineer is using mostly Carrion and Knight gear, with a Sigil of Corruption and Sigil of Earth. At least that’s what he said in the video comments.

And that’s why I’ve been considering getting the spear or trident legendary. Kraitkin looks so awesome!

Bas.7406:

Spectral Armor: The Cooldown is too long for it’s completely low duration. The 15 point trait in Soul Reaping is significantly better.

Signet of Spite: Not even sure what the deal is with this or any signet.

Plague Signet: It has it’s uses, but there are so many better and more efficent ways to do the exact same thing (dagger 4, Staff 4) or just cleanse them with a heal.

Shadow Fiend is my least Favorite minion, but he is pretty tanky against veterans and the aoe blind = mmmmmm.

If I could find one phrase to sum up what’s wrong with most of our “Not Conditions” builds, it’d be this.

My only real gripe about the Necro class is that it’s designed to face-tank damage in a game where you’re not supposed to face-tank damage.

Otherwise, I think they’re pretty awesome.

TheAgedGnome.7520:

PinCushion.7390:

Nay of the Ether.8913:

I actually love shadow fiend, but you’re right he is kinda situational sometimes. Even though I do use signet of spite in my hybrid builds, I would agree it’s a mostly useless skill. Now corrosive poison cloud, it’s nearly op if you know how to use it properly. One of my favorite skills we have. Yes I am sad it doesn’t pulse physical damage too (even if it was a tiny bit just so we could get siphons off of it). Now as for spectral wall, now that they fixed the combo field location I bring that everywhere I go. Minions making confusion, chaos armor, awesome stuff for a necro. bring bone fiend and flesh wurm and you just got yourself about 7-10 stacks of confusion before it runs out. It’s one of our hidden gems, learn to use it and you’ll reveal more of it’s secrets

So I guess I wrote all this to say, signet of spite sucks lol, oh and don’t hate on shadow fiend, shame on you :P

OMG! You just told me how to Confusion spam with a Necro.

You’re the best forum poster ever!

Or, you can reroll as an Asura to get the Pain Inverter racial. But, yea, that is an awesome use of spectral, minions and combos!

Oh, I wasn’t talking about for me. I was talking about for me and the Engineer I run with. They already have loads of Confusion, but they also have loads of Projectile and Blast finishers. So adding Spectral Wall to my build isn’t going to change it much, but will offer our little duo a bit of ranged Confusion stacking along with some Chaos Armor + Protection at the cost of a little coordination.

Basically, I’ll be dropping it on her Rifle Turret (which does projectile finishers automatically) and she’ll be blowing up the turret for Chaos Armor.

I don’t think it’s good enough to form an entire build around, but it’s a nice addition that could come in handy.

Luke.4562:

Death Curse
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Death_Curse

What’s better than poisoning yourself when you’re on the brink of death?

Think we have a winner!

Xernth.8561:

Sounds like Deathly Invigoration would be only moderately terrible in a melee build where you had friends nearby, but given I’m hoping to stand away from “bad things” its going to be completely terrible for what I’m hoping to do. PinCushion, I have an 80 Elem and like Healing Ripple, which is kind of where I was going, but it doesn’t sound like DI can fill that role.

I also have an 80 Ele, and the thing to remember is that Ele has tons of passive cleanses, passive regen, heals in their weapon skills, and (with Staff at least) water fields they can get heals off of. I’m sure you already know all this if you play one.

Necro has 1 bad heal on DS, and 1 mediocre heal on Life Transfer.

Nay of the Ether.8913:

The heal from deathly invigoration effective area is about as large as the targeting recticle for your weakening shroud (same size as the enfeebling blood skill on offhand dagger) so unless your allies are virtually touching you, they won’t get any healing and it does not heal you that I know of. The gain per point of healing power, as Tak mentioned above, is pitiful at best. That’s why no one uses that trait. I’ve tried many many times to make it work in builds, but trust me it’s not worth it. If they would just increase the area of the healing, I might consider it for a support build but until then I won’t ever use it again. As for reaper’s precision, kinda speaks for itself. If you have high crits you can benefit from it, if not don’t bother bringing it (by high I mean minimum 50% or more) and no it does not have an internal cooldown because it’s limited by your crits.

Pet peeve of mine:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Deathly_Invigoration

Heals for 267 + (0.32*Healing Power). Max frequency of every 5 seconds w/ 30 in SR.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Healing_Ripple

Heals for 1,302 + (1.0*Healing Power). Max frequency of every 9 seconds w/ 30 in Arcane.

Class Envy. I hate it.

Nay of the Ether.8913:

I actually love shadow fiend, but you’re right he is kinda situational sometimes. Even though I do use signet of spite in my hybrid builds, I would agree it’s a mostly useless skill. Now corrosive poison cloud, it’s nearly op if you know how to use it properly. One of my favorite skills we have. Yes I am sad it doesn’t pulse physical damage too (even if it was a tiny bit just so we could get siphons off of it). Now as for spectral wall, now that they fixed the combo field location I bring that everywhere I go. Minions making confusion, chaos armor, awesome stuff for a necro. bring bone fiend and flesh wurm and you just got yourself about 7-10 stacks of confusion before it runs out. It’s one of our hidden gems, learn to use it and you’ll reveal more of it’s secrets

So I guess I wrote all this to say, signet of spite sucks lol, oh and don’t hate on shadow fiend, shame on you :P

OMG! You just told me how to Confusion spam with a Necro.

You’re the best forum poster ever!

Luke.4562:

Let’s give more inputs.

Gathering Plague
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Gathering_Plague
[BUG: This skill replicates any conditions on nearby allies but does not remove them.]

Over the bug, -if it would work properly- under water you have no useful skills like Staff#4 or Dagger#4 to send away conditions; it forces you having Consume Conditions, Plague Signet or Fetid Consumption (even if underwater MM is a lame spec) or someone dispelling them from you to work productively.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Life_Blast_

Transfers 1 condition per blast.

Shalla.3967:

I agree with Signet of Spite being somewhat useless. It would make far more sense for it to refill some of your life force on use, or even do some spike damage.

I can see potential in Spectral Wall and Corrosive Poison Cloud, but they need some changes for them to be viable. (e.g. Spectral Wall turning part of the projectile damage taken into health/life force or adding chill/daze/pulsing damage to Corrosive Poison Cloud).

Poison Cloud exists to put permanent weakness on things. If you don’t need perma weakness, then you don’t need Poison Cloud. The poison it gives is OK, but the weakness is pretty amazing in PvE. Haven’t had much success with it in PvP since so many people run high-crit builds with loads of vigor.

Ezeriel.9574:

Watch out for confusion… that’s about all they have.

I enjoy giving their confusion back to them, and then giving that to their friends. It’s funny.

I still die, but I die laughing.

TheAgedGnome.7520:

For me it would be Signet of Spite. 90 sec CD for a bunch of 3-5 sec conditions (too short to reliably use w/Epidemic) just ain’t worth it.

This signet is actually kinda not bad if used with Axe and Scepter to get a decent burst in a berzerker build, and stacks with the Curses 25 minor trait (+2% damage per condition). Basically, pop signet, Axe 2, weapon swap, Scepter 3.

It does kinda sorta ok damage (for a necro) if your target doesn’t dodge, and can also add a chill if you trait for the Chill on Blind. With +100% Condi Duration that’s 2 whole seconds of chill off of a 90 sec cooldown (and another 10% damage on your Scepter 3 spike)! You can get that down to a 72 second CD and 3 stacks of might if you waste a bunch of traits on it!

So, it isn’t the worst. It’s just really….really mediocre.

:’(

Where’s my OP gimmick build?

Zul.1506:

I agree with Takarazuka.
Necromancer is a class that’s incredibly overlooked by many people.
We have great access to many conditions and a pretty good line of support skills too.
While we don’t make a great Zerker class, it’s fine, it’s not where Necros really belong.

Necros instead can consistently apply conditions and sustain them, while giving allies condition removal and support directly and indirectly through wells and marks.
In PvE Necros have to ability to apply AoE conditions with Epidemic, something no other class can beat the Necromancer at.
Apply bleed to one target (which Necros can easily stack 15 bleeds pretty fast) and Epidemic, boom! AoE 15 stacks bleed, and it recharges in 10 sec if traited.
This works wonders with bosses that spawns lots of adds, like the Shaman in Lava Fractal or Dredge in Dredge Fractal.

Minions are now a solid utility, and is great for levelling! Better AI means they aggro less, and provide lots of tanking and damage when traited. However, I wouldn’t use Minions when I’m running in higher level Fractals, as they die too quickly before doing much damage. And I believe Agony strikes them pretty hard.

Death Shroud is a free life bar that fills up relatively quickly, even if untraited. Can provide easy Fury and Might boons when traited. Also provides good AoE heal when traited.

Overall, I’d say the necros (and Engineers) are often the most looked down class in the entire game, just because their lack of quick direct damage (burst) is less compared to other classes, which is mostly true. People also don’t know how necros work, so in a group they often move outside of wells or marks, despite the great support it gives.
I hope they do get more popular though, I love my Necro too, and it’s my favorite class in the game!

Second this. Our biggest problem in PvE grouping is that people don’t really know that our marks, wells, and AoE effects provide a lot of support. I can’t count the number of times I’ve dropped a well on some dungeon mob that’s been instantly knocked out of it, or dropped a mark on the party just to have people dodge away from it. People expect their support to give them boons. If they don’t get loads of boons (e.g. Guardian) then they assume you’re just doing bad damage.

CHIPS.6018:

PinCushion.7390:

CHIPS.6018:

The most important lesson from this video is how rapidly Nemesis applies bleeding to his foes. They gets 9+ stacks so quickly and died pretty quick. If you are a conditionmancer you would need this.

But wouldn’t that also be intentionally missing his overall point?

Well the fact that necros sucks in roaming in wvw should be common knowledge by now.

I LOL’ed when he tried to 1vs2, but there is a 3rd thief hidden so it was actually 1vs3. ^^

Ah, I thought his point was that roaming in-general was fairly unimportant at the end of the day and that zergs run WvW. That we shouldn’t care that necros don’t have a good roaming build because we have great zerg builds, and that’s what wins matches.

CHIPS.6018:

The most important lesson from this video is how rapidly Nemesis applies bleeding to his foes. They gets 9+ stacks so quickly and died pretty quick. If you are a conditionmancer you would need this.

But wouldn’t that also be intentionally missing his overall point?

Laii.2780:

Necro can also take a trait for +50% fear durration so 150% fear duration total.^^ Sad Necro fears are only 1 second tho when war and theif both get triple that length ; ;.

Necro with 100% cd dur + 50% fear duration = 2.5 second fear(aoe)
War or theif with 100% cd duration = 6 second fear (aoe)(Dragon length T.T)

On the bright side BiP is a 1m bleed with 100% duration, and bleeds from Mark of Blood on staff is kinda redic if you have staff cooldown trait^^

Yeah, but you only need 50% duration + fear duration trait to get Terror to tick twice

Nemesis.8593:

I know that some players look at World vs World and think PvP… ok then, what’s a good build that i can hold my own with vs any class. I’ve seen this written on these forums at least 10 times in the last week or so… “a build that i can hold my own in PvP”.

Their mindset is that… you go around WvW and you find honorable 1v1s, you kill or get killed and you have some fun… wrong… you die, and you get zerged…
You can play the infiltrator of course, but that is not for the people that have the mindset just described.

When I’m looking for a build that can hold its own in WvW, what I’m looking for is a very specific thing to accomplish a very specific task. I want to roam the map, kill yaks, flip camps, and do the underwater events without having to immediately concede defeat because a thief decided to show up. I want a build that excels in small group and solo encounters, has enough mobility to run away when I’m outnumbered (if I notice in time), has enough damage/survival/staying power to take on 2 or 3 upleveled/badly played opponents, and can make a 1vs.1 against a very good opponent a close race.

In short, I want to roam and look for good fights because they are fun. That’s what most people mean when they ask for a good 1v1 build.

spoj.9672:

Andele.1306:

spoj.9672:

DS works exactly as before, just you can actually see all the boons and conditions which is more than i could of ever hoped for in a patch. I was sort of able to heal in DS. Used life transfer just as i was about to run out of lifeforce, the ability continued to channel as it always did if you cast it just before you lost all your lifeforce. And because I aoe crit’d a group of enemies with 20 points in blood magic I went from almost no hp to half in a second. Its just a shame you cant force this to happen everytime anymore seeing as lifetransfer cancels if you switch out of DS manually (Was fixed a while ago and noone mentioned it).

Natural LF degeneration forces it, Casting it while the Life force bar is just about 1 cm away from the edge/spam tapping it while casting the last life blast lets you self heal via transfusion, isnt that public necromancer knowledge?

Yes ive known this for ages. Just come across alot of others who havent. You use to be able to force it just by leaving DS and it wouldnt interrupt but they fixed that a couple of patches ago.

Is this a feature or bug exploit I wonder?

AirWick.1769:

Well we do not have access to stability except in grandmaster soul reaping trait. (Who the hell even gets that for only 3 seconds worth of stability in exchange for 30 trait points?) Also we have little access to boons and the ones we do feel more like punishment then useful. For example, blood is power. Why do I get a bleed stack just to get might or even spectral armor a 90 sec cd for only 6-8 secs worth of protection? We do not have burst movement speed like teleports or charge like abilites that are not affected by reduced movement speed in combat.

We cannot turn invulnerable. In whose right mind in any MMORPG thinks this is even a fair mechanic in the first place for player use. It is totally overpowered no matter how many ways you look at it. Whether it be 1 player, 8 players, or 50 players hitting you. A boss able to do tons of damage that can wipe an entire group.

You just cannot die while it is up.

This mechanic has no counter while it remains. It is allowed while performing finishers too? (You just can’t stop an invulnerable finisher? Whose idea was this? In the aspects where an invulnerable finisher is being performed in a team fight or last hopes of bringing a player into a downed 1v1 fight with you.

In order:

> Stability. You think Stability for 3 of every 10 seconds (without boon duration) isn’t worth 30 points?

> Corruption self Conditions. We get conditions put on us so we can transfer them to other people or eat them for more healing. Those conditions are a good thing for us.

> Long CD on Spectral Skills. These skills are balanced around the idea that you get a small “heal” for using them via life force gain. The CD does make them cumbersome, but they’re pretty strong nonetheless.

> Burst speed/teleport/swiftness: Spectral Walk. Worm Pet. Dark Path. Warhorn 5.

> Invuln Finishers: Stability on DS. Well of Darkness. Plague 2. Not as easy-mode as Mesmer Distortion or Ele Mist Form, so a kind of poor-man’s invuln. But it’s what we have.

I’m not saying our tools are ideal, or even great. I’m saying they’re there for us to use. If they need to be tweaked, then that’s one thing (and I think they do). I don’t think the class needs a rewrite or overhaul like you’re suggesting.

Skyro.3108:

@Bhawb

Like I said above, syngery with other classes is a good thing, not a bad one. It promotes teamwork and coordination. Right now the fact that you can’t be healed is both unintuitive and not fun. It’s like this:

Necro: “Help I’m getting focused”
Ele: “Ok tossing my big heals on you!”
Necro: “Crap I had to DS to eat that 100B burst”
Ele: “…”

In regards to balance, I think the my whole argument is just flying over everybody’s heads. Let me explain it in another way. Don’t think about HP and LF as two separate pools, but consider them all one big effective HP pool, except when you’re in DS you lose 600 HP/sec (the amount of EHP you lose in LF assuming 0 SR and 25k HP).

So to even break even in DS, you’d have to be healing 600 HP/sec. In what world are you generating a HPS output of 600 HP/sec on a consistent basis? You maybe hit if you have regen and you trait up all your siphon traits and using life transfer w/ the healing trait, but life transfer is on 40s CD and you’re committing a ton of trait points into a line that is frankly incredibly underpowered in PvP.

What this all means is that staying in DS for long periods of time is deterimental to you EHP. You want to maximize the proportion of damage you take in DS while minimizing your uptime in DS, which essentially means you want to take all the high spike damage in DS while taking all the moderate levels of damage to your normal health bar.

So in reality the whole scenario about being some invulnerable juggernaut simply due to being able to be healed in DS is completly and utterly false because you do not want to be in DS for very long stretches if you care about optimizing your EHP. A Necro optimzing his EHP in this way is probably only going to get a few hundred more EHP (depending on the build of course) if they change it so you can be healed in DS.

This is one reason I always questioned the value of all the traits that require you to hang out in DS to function. Life Blast does ABC. DS causes Vuln. By using these traits I’m hurting myself more than my enemy because I have to burn through X amount of effective health just to use them.

It isn’t really relevant to the patch notes, but it’s bugged me for a while.

Oldbugga.7029:

Well if what Bas is saying IS correct, what evidence is there that ANet are trimming the other profs down to our level? NONE (in fact the opposite..epidemc nerf anyone). This is just the old MMO argument “so-and-so class is OP…devs pls nerf it” and we all know where that goes.

The alternative then is to seek an increase in necro abilities to match because that argument above will get us nowhere.

EDIT: and the line of least resistance (effort) for the devs is to buff one or two of our abilities rather than nerf one or two abilities for 3 or 4 professions. So if buffing us is improbable I would say nerfing the others is even more of an improbability purely on the effort required.

It isn’t about the line of least resistance. It’s about creating a level playing field where every profession has a variety of builds with which they can contribute in both PvE and PvP. In PvE it prevents content from becoming (more) trivialized, and prevents players from being shoehorned into roles and builds that they may not actually enjoy. Both of these add to the game’s overall longevity and marketability. In PvP it prevents matches from becoming foregone conclusions based purely on which group has the “correct” class composition, and also creates a certain amount of unpredictability in gameplay. How many times have you seen a Warrior with a Greatsword in PvP or WvW and knew exactly what he was going to do and how to react to it? That’s a problem. There aren’t enough ways to build a solid Greatsword Warrior that players actually want to use, so GS Warriors are painfully predictable to the point of being boring. That’s just an example, but there are countless others. D/D Elementalists are another build that is very potent, but also incredibly predictable.

Bas.7406:

PinCushion.7390:

CHIPS.6018:

As expected this patch didn’t help us much. But hopefully Anet is reading our feedbacks and working on fixes. ^^

LOL! You mean like they fixed Engineer? Buffed the damage of the build everyone hates to play (Turrets). Destroyed the build with actual damage in it (100nades).

It’s all the same to me. My wife plays a Turret Engi and she’s ecstatic about the patch. But it doesn’t bode well for Necro, except we don’t really have any OP Damage builds to nerf. Maybe that’ll be a blessing in disguise.

Like I have said numerous times. The issue with the game is not the Necromancer. It’s the Niche roles that other classes are forced into because their other specs are so much worse than the niche specs.

We are really well balanced, every other class wishes they had the variety of builds that we have available.

As long as OP niche builds exist for any class, every other balanced class will be compared to it. Luckily ANet has been kind of ok with nerfing in a controlled way. The problem is that it takes them so long that when they finally get around to it the niche build has developed into an entire playstyle, and sometimes even an entire culture.

Add to this that PvE is so trivial in most of the game it drastically undervalues defensive and support abilities, and you get a culture that is always looking for the highest DPS wherever they can find it. This devalues any profession, any trait line, and any skill that doesn’t fit into the culture of MOARZERKDPSPLOX!

Now, we put the Necro profession in this context and it’s no wonder so many players feel that it’s underpowered. The core mechanic of the Necro is a defensive one, and most skills are centered around defensive conditions stacking (chill/cripple/weakness), and consistent damage over time. Players end up asking the same question over and over again. Where’s the burst?!?

CHIPS.6018:

As expected this patch didn’t help us much. But hopefully Anet is reading our feedbacks and working on fixes. ^^

LOL! You mean like they fixed Engineer? Buffed the damage of the build everyone hates to play (Turrets). Destroyed the build with actual damage in it (100nades).

It’s all the same to me. My wife plays a Turret Engi and she’s ecstatic about the patch. But it doesn’t bode well for Necro, except we don’t really have any OP Damage builds to nerf. Maybe that’ll be a blessing in disguise.

Pendragon.8735:

Monoman.2068:

If the necromancer had some synergy between his weapons and killing potential outside of auto attacks and CD heavy skills (looking at you wells), you could almost ignore the problems with utilities, traits, and class mechanics (or atleast I could).

An attrition class should most of all never had to rely on long cooldown skills, that if they miss or the opponent simply dodges at the right time, your offensive punch just went down the drain. It’s just counter to the design.

Yet many of our utilities are on long cooldowns, not just the wells either. But most of our signets and even spectral skills, spectral armor at 90 seconds is just ridiculous for its short lasting time span.

Plague lasting 30 seconds is also a head scratcher to me. Would be far more useful at 15 seconds and half the cooldown. At least for PVE and WvW, can’t think when you ever need to be in plague that long. Then again, probably yet another area where sPVP was the driving force in making the skill, and it translates to hurting us or being less good everywhere else. It doesn’t really matter so much if you get immobilized with it in sPVP as your are already where you want to be bunkering in the circle. In other modes though its used as a getaway or get out of dodge mechanic and immobilize negates it, vs a blink or invulnerable.

I believe the design intent was for us to blow our utilities (especially our heal), then go into DS to wait out the cooldowns as much as possible, then do it again. That is not the current “optimal” playstyle, really. It’s more defensive, and centered around dragging fights out while maintaining a consistent amount of damage output.

In PvE it tends to be faster to just load up on damage and save DS for when you’re out of endurance and need to soak a big hit. In PvP it’s a different story, and smart DS use can be a real life saver. Not because you’re “soaking all this damage.” It’s because you’re soaking damage while your heals/utilities are refreshing, so when you run out life force you can heal again.*

Now, that’s most likely “Designer Intent.” What happens in actual game play is rarely what the designers intended.

*Note – I am fairly awful at PvP, so take my advice with a grain of salt. I’m just commenting on what ANet probably intended when they designed necro, and what is probably the source of their L2DeathShroud comments.

I think the current plan for WvW Ranks and rank boosts should be carried over to the Outmanned Buff. If you’re outmanned you have to work harder and faster, but giving straight up combat buffs is a little abusable and unfair.

So, the new and improved Outmanned Buff should look like:

Outmanned!
+25% Supply Carrying Capacity
-50% Supply Costs for Repairing Structures and Doors
-25% Supply Cost for Constructing Siege Weapons
+50% Siege Construction Speed
+10% Keep Upgrade Speed

Now, having the buff means you can at least put up a good keep defense or siege effort and not get ridiculously creamed (provided you can get to a keep, and get supply). It means that you can make your 0-2 Supply Camps stretch that much thinner. It means you can mount a meaningful defense before the zerg buzz-saws through your door like it was made of butter. It doesn’t give you an unfair advantage in combat, and is difficult to really abuse since most WvW siege and keep upgrades are remarkably temporary.

Flamenco.3894:

If don’t double-tap to dodge, you are very bad at this game

I rebound my dodge to middle mouse button, and that worked very well for me. I hated double-tap because I’d always set it off at the wrong moment and use up all my endurance.

Stuff that doesn’t require dodging:

Most open world PvE content.
WvW in zergy keep sieges.

Stuff that requires dodging:
The harder PvE events (e.g. Temple events in Orr)
All Dungeons
All Fractals
s/tPvP
Non-Zergy WvW (and it helps a lot even in zergy keep sieges)

If you’re fine with just doing regular PvE in the world, then you can unbind the dodge key and never touch it again. You’re handicapping yourself, but some people just hate the idea of having to react to stuff or have terribad reflexes. But, in all honesty, this MMO has given us the fastest ride to max level of any I’ve ever played. You’ll be level capped soon, and most of the content at level 80 will require a decent knowledge and usage of dodge mechanics. In many dungeons and fractals missing a dodge means you die. In PvP or WvW missing a dodge can be the difference between getting inside your team’s keep or getting instantly killed by a random warrior.

Playing GW2 without dodge is like driving with no windshield. Sure, you can. But why would you do that to yourself? Getting hit hurts!

I enjoyed this video, and it gave me several ideas for my own build. Thanks for posting it!

Noss.4105:

Where things get intresting is outnumbered fights. Necros are probably the worst stompers in game, so even if you manage to get one bad guy down, it’s really hard to pin without getting yourself killed due no access to invulnerability/stability.

Downed people cannot cleanse. I find it amusing to cover a downed person with all the conditions I can muster, plus a lot of staff marks, then use Epidemic when someone attempts to rally them. If I time it right it’ll down both guys at once. I won’t be able to stomp either of them, but it makes for a laugh.

It isn’t ideal, but it’s amusing.

And I’m terrible in PvP/WvW, but I’m not really there to win. I’m there for my own personal amusement.

Kravick.4906:

Otaking.4675:

Whenever you see positive threads or videos about necro it’s about PVE or WvW where they have the protection of a zerg and can fight underlevelled/geared/skilled opponents. Videos like this, while not reflecting upon the skill of the producer don’t mean much to me in the grand scheme.

Rarely do you see necros owning in S/T and even then are carried by a team (I believe it’s one of Nemesis’ videos that talks extensively about how he doesn’t need might/swiftness since he gets it from guardian on the team…sorry but running a dagger build without locust signet is loco without guaranteed team comp) and are there for boon strip and undead signet to res three people. I’ve been playing a lot of S and while I have the most fun on my tankish mediocre bursting well/dagger build, I felt the most useful in a condition single target sniping boon stripper to snipe bunkers down.

However in that build 1v1 is a tragedy due to glassiness so I felt like a fragile antitank weapon that needed to be protected by the team..just a very niche function and not well rounded to win duels or anything…if my opponent doesn’t boon stack I can’t do a lot. Some opponents are so good at boon stacking they can just reapply 6-8 boons after the corrupt boon.

2v1s are rarely possible with necro but everyone has seen videos of 4v1 thief 3v1 guard 3v1 mesmer by now.

So its not just me then.

I’ve spent the last 2 weeks in tPvP trying to get my Champion Phantom (horrible horrible experience so far. My champion shadow title on my thief was infinitely easier to get and took me only 1 week and 2 days solo quing) title and this is exactly how I feel. As I watch mesmers, thieves, and guardians wade into a group of people and plow them all down, I can’t help the feeling that there is just something wrong here. I have never seen a necromancer pull something like this. If 2 or more people look my general direction, even as a full tank minion build, I’ll go down rather quickly and there is nothing I can do to prolong the fight. The same thing happens to necromancers on enemy teams as well so its not just something only I’m experiencing. Meanwhile, engineers and guardians are perfectly capable of holding a point vs 3 other people. Engineers seem especially good at this. So much so that it takes no less than 4 people or a treb to beat down a pure bunker engineer.

It isn’t just you.

The classes you describe have access to a lot of things that make them well-suited to, you know, actual combat.

A collection of AoE knockback, leaps, easy Protection/Vigor access, cleaving attacks, loads of healing, etc. etc.

Basically, all of the stuff they designed Necro to not have because it’s supposed to be a “defensive powerhouse” is stuff you actually need to defend yourself.

Kravick.4906:

Bhawb.7408:

Necromancers underwater are incredibly strong.

Oh that I agree with. Makes me wonder if they don’t have two different people that does combat balance. One does land and the other water combat.

Maybe they want us to be that spooky monster that drags people into the depths, so they made us super OP underwater and fairly mediocre on land.

Zogyark.4597:

That’s a cool trick Nar, though I’m not sure 2 utilites are worth it.

Akame if you’re in N.A. add me and we could go together and try path 2 and take turns at lupicus.

Andele – Ranger and Engineer both have source to endurance regeneration, engineer would be easier because of invulnerable skills and skills that reflect projectiles though ranger would be next. I think necro has it tough because the way our profession works. It would make sense if we had a trait that grant vigor for 5s when going in Death Shroud.

New Trait: Feast on Fear
When you successfully fear a target you gain endurance.

New Trait: Cling to Life
When you reach zero Life Force you gain Vigor for 5s

Put them wherever makes sense, but I’d hope the 2 silly Minion minor traits in the toughness line.