Guild Wars 2

binidj.5734:

Because apparently more challenging content is more fun for a number of people (or so we are told, quite forcefully, on other threads) so wouldn’t you do content because it’s fun? Why on earth would somebody deliberately give themselves a less fun experience if there were no difference in reward between the more and less fun options?

Either the “more challenging content” crowd actually mean that they want more/better loot; or they find challenging game play a reward in itself. It’d be nice if people were a bit more honest about which of those options is true.

The truth is this.. they wan’t both challenging content and better loot options, because the truth is that they want to have something to separate themselves from the others.

They want the content to be hard, so only dedicated groups of people with lots of time and effort can do it, and they want the loot to be better so they can show it off in LA or whenever the next people hub will be.

They want to feel superior to others in some way. And the only way to achieve that is via making the rewards better and the content harder. And that’s the truth of it, no matter how much they deny it.

Nobody does hard content for the joy of doing something hard for long, unless you bribe them with rewards that will make them feel unique and better than their fellow man. Simple as that.

Fox.3469:

Seriously when a company known for saying “when it’s ready” commits for release this year, you can count on release this year

Seeing how they still didn’t get VB to work properly in this betah, I fail to see how they can confidently say that everything else will in the 4 something months that’s left, especially when it looks like that elite specs aren’t even done yet. It’s bad enough that we’ll get 4 maps (very likely) that will be absolutely untested save their internal testers, I can’t see how they can address all the issues that will come up with their unfinished specs.

What’s more likely is that they’ll release it unfinished and patch it later, or delay further. Either way, this can’t be good.

Arrow.4619:

So let me say this before the moronic “get gud” and “all you need is life steal” or the “just kite them out of the field” (see the above in case you missed it) type posts in response: Most of the HOT mobs haven’t been too horrendous – they are tough but defeatable solo. Normals in pairs or triples, some Veterans handled readily enough but many are real challenge and I don’t mind it. Even the Mordrem snipers are acceptable (grumble grumble #$@*&^! snipers) once you understand what’s going on with them. I expect that we will get better, the community will learn how to deal with them one after another . . . but I’m not seeing how that going to work with Smokescales.

You’re 11 pages late :P

Nice feedback there

amplitudelol.1409:

You are getting emotional. A nerf is unfortunately inevitable anyway but if it doesnt come with the next beta try another build, you might find the mobs 10x easier to deal with. But pls, lets be serious, whats happening in VB is far from what you can call a “challange”. Difficulty might not be ideal for someone who tries doing 100% map completion between midnight and dawn i give you that. That person seriously needs to turn off the television and stop eating snacks while playing .

I hear voices, how can I not be emotional… give me a little credit here. All things considered I do pretty well with the voices, I think.

Yeah let’s be serious. that would be nice, wouldn’kitten

When do we start?

Ayrilana.1396:

It will work. I threw down a guild heroes banner during beta and the XP I got from kills increased.

Hey thanks for the answer, the question came to me on another thread and I thought it might be worth to know…

I’m not sure if this has been asked again, but do we know if experience boosters will work in hot and if the extra experience you’ll be getting will get used by the mastery fill up bar?

xadine.7069:

*No one ever said 80+ map that just you been earing voices…

OMG no one ever… i feel so ashamed now… i’m hearing voices… and reading things…

Walhalla.5473:

Also keep in mind that this is a 80+ Reagion and such a Region shouldn’t be so easy that you can watch TV while killing Enemies with ease. And really 95% of the issues are L2P issues because the Mobs are new. After getting used they didn’t kill me so much anymore, like they did at the beginning.

anduriell.6280:

I think Anet is taking the right step making this maps more difficult than the old ones. This is an expansion for level 80+ players that are looking into something more interesting than chestfarming in the silverwastes for gold and don’t have the class to run on PvP or roam in WvW (necros and rangers i’m looking at you) .

I hear about lvl 80+ zones, lvl 80+ characters… my situation is trully critical… is there a doctor in the house?

xadine.7069:

*And as you seem to forget but I do REMEMBER is that HoT (or at least this beta) was design to get players into “more painful and more tedious” fight (YOUR words not mine).

actually you DON’T remember all that well… those weren’t my words, but a direct quote from one of my favourite bloggers, and there was a link to take you to his blog also.
during this thread i’m getting constantly upgraded. I went from hearing voices to being a popular blogger. Oh my. Thank you all for your continuous support.

xadine.7069:

It require experience/time to reach the max lvl in a game and you’re suppose to learn the mecanics of the game while doing it. A high lvl map, or lets call it end game map since high level seems to disturb you, is suppose to give you the opportunity and the need to use what you learned before. Orr use to be like that but was nerf so quickly. Right now we have no PvE content that “justify” your lvl80, and you don’t have to USE your skill bar. But since you are able to say “Why do I want too” when you’re ask if you feel the need to use your full skill bar I don’t expect you to understand the real problem about difficulty in this game and it explain a lot about your previous posts on this thread…

I promise I will direct poor old bughpuss to your comments about his attitude with this game.

On a more serious note, there was a reason Orr got downgraded. Ignoring it won’t make it go away. I would also bring SSC in here, but hey… plus you’re confusing your need for challenging content with everyone else’s needs. But! there’s hope for you still, I hear a while back they hired raid designers so you’ll be getting at least some challenging content to keep you happy, you don’t need to enforce it to anyone who doesn’t want it. Challenge is much like pvp. When it’s not concentual, it’s no fun. I get it, you’re on the other group, don’t worry, nobody’s perfect.

Ashen.2907:

Even a casual player, such as myself, is going to be better at playing his characters now than when he first hit level 80 months or years ago.

But nobody in here (except maybe me, and I’m in doubt) said that the content shouldn’t be challenging. Most here say that it shouldn’t be constantly challenging. There’s a difference. There aren’t enough ways to express it but, fighting for dear life in every single one transh mob fight you’ll have in there, won’t be fun for long. The map will fail.

It’s already going down with the pretty much forced gliding and mushrooms masteries you have to get just to avoid content. What’s the point of having the content if we’re choosing the option to avoid it. I mean look at all the suggestions in here for how to deal with the mobs. Run off till you can jump on a few rock steps and the mobs will reset. Get gliding it gets so much better. Use mushrooms to move around and avoid the mobs. If challenging mobs were such crazy fun I don’t think ppl would be looking for all these ways to avoid them. Doesn’t that tells us something? Anything?

In all honesty I hope they don’t change the difficulty and you guys get what you want. At least that way we’ll get a hands on feeling on what happens after 6 months of “challening” mobs. I have my thoughts…

Just a flesh wound.3589:

It’s not exactly semantics. Exp levels your bar no matter where you are and what you are doing and applies to only one character. Progress in the mastery system applies to all characters simultaneously but won’t progress your glider training in the vanilla map and it won’t progress your Legendary crafting training If you’re in the new map. Once you get all Masteries to max, it won’t progress anything, no matter what you do.

One problem with using tomes to advance Masteries is that it would simultaneously advance ALL your characters at the same time. You could use enough tomes to get all your level 80s to max mastery. With the current system you could only advance one char at a time. That’s a lot of bang for your buck, to get all your level 80s to max mastery in a few minutes.

That’s a very valid point.

Again you won’t be breezing through the masteries to get them, you still need the points to unlock them but the globality of the system is an issue with tomes. I’ve never given much thought to that, it does increase the value of the tome significantly.

So let’s reduce the mastery xp you get from tomes to something that’s more in line? Zero seems a bit too harsh on me.

The problem here, isn’t the tomes imo. But the mastery system it self. As a horizontal advancement system it leaves a lot to be desired. Prepare to see it get iterated at future feature patches.

Ayrilana.1396:

It is true. check the tooltip, the wiki, and try it out yourself. If you have 50,000 XP, using a tome progresses your level by one while maintaining the XP you had already progressed towards the next level. If you’re level 50 with 50,000 XP towards 51, using a tome will make you level 51 with 50,000 XP towards 52.

Mastery progression is achieved by gaining experience and not levels. This argument is pointless anyway as they’ve already stated the tomes only grant spirit shards once you reached level 80. I know you want to be able to sit in LA on day 1 and use your stacks of times to have every mastery unlocked within a matter of minutes but that is not going to be the case.

No, I don’t use my tomes at all. They have no use for me. Must have around 750 of them.

Maybe use them to get wvw lvls if they start to really clog up my bank or something. And I don’t even plan to lvl my revenant with tomes cause, I like lvling up characters (that’s why I already got 8 of them).

But that doesn’t mean that I don’t want others to do that also. If they want to use tomes for their masteries it’s fine by me. I’m not affected in any way. They probably be ruining for themselves, but it’s still their choice.

Also they couldn’t really use them to unlock all their masteries cause they’ll still would need to go out in the world and get the mastery points to unlock ’em. Just saying.

The point here isn’t tomes, is the mastery system it self. It’s a weak and empty system that offers nothing to the game. And the op tried to correct that.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Actually, the mastery system is something they said does not use the old system of XP. Which is why tomes won’t give XP to level 80s after the expansion as they will be switched over to the Mastery system. It’s similar, true, but it’s something else as yet unnamed.

http://www.zam.com/story.html?story=35818&storypage=2
“The masteries seen in the demo are just the tip of what masteries will be available at launch, and the team will have more surprises for players. We wanted to know if all those consumables, like Tomes of Knowledge and Writs of Experience, would help players unlock all of these masteries faster. The short answer is that they won’t. The experience bar is going away and is being replaced by the mastery training bar. This training bar is in no way tied to experience, but fills up by going out and doing stuff in the world. So any item that gives you experience won’t help you train masteries.”

That’s just semantics and you know it. Unless those stuff you’ll be doing in the world that would fill that bar, aren’t the same exact stuff you’ll be doing to get to 80. Changing the name doesn’t make it any different.

But sure, if they’ll add activities that don’t give xp normally but only mastery training credit, I’m all for it. Somehow I doubt it though. Call me cynical

Ayrilana.1396:

Tomes do not give XP. Tomes give you a level. XP and level are not the same. You’re confusing the acquisition method of levels as being one and the same when they’re not.

If that was true (it isn’t, but let’s assume for a moment that it is) then it should also give you a mastery lvl. They are after all Tomes of Experience. You read the book, you get “experience”. Makes sense.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Yes it uses XP, but as a new system it doesn’t necessarily have to use all things associated with giving XP. As such, there is no reason why they should or “have to” work with this system. However, there is no reason to remove these items from working with the base system (character leveling) for which they were designed.

A valid point indeed. So are we to expect that xp boosters won’t be working either? Cause the same argument applies… for consistency purposes.

As opposed to the system we got now where we can just buy them on the trading post?

xadine.7069:

Sure it require you to change you current build and maybe equipe 1 spell that you don’t like, but if you want to walk while watching TV and spaming 1 you shouldn’t step in a High Level map in any game.

What high lvl map? This is a lvl 80 map, like dry top, silverwastes, orr…

There are no high lvl maps in this game, we don’t have high lvls. What’s this 80+ I keep hearing in here? We don’t go over 80 remember?

Coulter.2315:

They maintained the same value because they give a spirit shard to an 80 which is what they would have done before HoT. They are not being given ADDED value by contributing to Masteries.

Also why on earth do you want to burn through HoT’s Masteries in one evening? Its self defeating…

Also “compensation”… What has become of us -.-

They give a lvl, you get lvls by xp, thus they give xp. Masteries up with xp, therefore tomes should provide xp for mastery usage.

Why on earth is your concern what I want to do with my gametime? Nodoby forces you to use them, but that’s not enough is it? Everybody else must also not use them cause otherwise you just can’t enjoy the game.

What has become of us, is we became consumers. We understand (at least some of us) that the game is a product, and that we consume it, and that the people who provide us with the game, make profit out of our consumption. So, they’re not our friends, our buddies, our anything. They’re the sellers, and we the buyers. They don’t do us any favours, and the service they provide is not from the bottoms of their pure white hearts.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Tomes continue to do exactly as they did before. They give 100% of a level. Before 80, that levels you up, after 80 is a skill point. Skill points have become spirit shards and tomes used on a level 80 do grant a shard. As such, their functionality has not changed. There is no need for compensation.

The mastery system is a new system. There is no precedent of tomes working with this system, because this system did not exist. Thus again, tome functionality has not changed in this regard either. So, no need for compensation.

Edit: Fixing my terrible, terrible typing.

The mastery system is a new system that uses the old system of xp. Tomes provide xp, stands to reason that tomes should provide mastery advancement. Otherwise remove them from the game and put something useful in their place.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

nekretaal.6485:

GummiBear.2756:

and then everyone will hord up on tomes and instaunlock every single masteries a few minutes after HoT is released… That is beyond stupid

Tomes are from dailies and from Pvp. Players who put in time ought to get an advantage, & players who Pvp shouldn’t be left far behind.

No.

Period.

This is one step away from “People who pay more should have an advantage”

If tomes of experience don’t do what it says in the box, shouldn’t the people who get them get compensated for their loss?

I mean by making tomes not working as before, doesn’t that reduce their value in the pvp tracks and dailies? If you don’t want them to work on masteries, then those who have them should be compensated.

Ayrilana.1396:

Mastery points are there to get you to experience various aspects of the game rather than sit in one location and farm XP.

whatever happened to the play as you like idea… now we “have” to experience the various aspects of the game? if that’s the case, i want sPvPers to join me in the maguma jungle, and them pve only types to have to sPvP in order to get into the maguma. That will “help” them experience the various aspects of the game. Especially the frustration one :P

But really now, if one wants to sit in one location and farm xp, why is that bad? and how is it any different from when ppl farm SW hours on end?

Manifibel.8420:

Much of this doesn’t fit the Mastery System.
I am mastering the ability to grow new horns.
I am mastering the ability to dye my hair in a new color.
I am mastering the ability to cut my hair differently.
I am mastering the art of waveing differently.
And more
How does this sound more interesting than the ability to glide, and with the ability to glide, get to new areas where you can find a person to lets say, teach you a recipe for a unique hair color. Or at the end of a hard JP where you have to use speed mushrooms to get accros a unstable floor without falling, using updrafts and stealth gliding to in the end, find a guy or recipe that unlocks a new hair cut.

I think not being able to use the Tomes, Writs or anything like that is a great thing, otherwise, even with you guys suggestion, it would still be over in a week at most, unless they can come up with over 100 different things for your version of Masteries.

Oh you person of limited imagination. When you train for the option to use the frog merchants do you think that you’re mastering the ability to trade with the frog village people? no, you say you’re mastering lore. So those new horns would be a nice side effect, side reward for you mastering this or that bit of the charr lore. Same context can be used for everything else. All you need is a bit of imagination to dress up stuff with the appropriate text and you’re good to go.

And why would you think gliding wouldn’t be in there too? there’s room for pretty much everything in there. And the difference is that it allows for players to get the rewards they want by playing how they want and using up all that experience they keep getting.

On the other hand your suggestion is pretty nice too, it doesn’t correspond to the current reality we’re discussing, but it is a nice suggestion indeed. Wish they’d do that. but they haven’t.

Algreg.3629:

your ability to write elaborate language certainly speaks against that – I rather think you act the inapt fool for some “bad player agenda” you are not actually involved in personally

PS: Though I agree with you in general that “casual” is the way to go when you want to earn big money and keep your game alive. Even as I lament the degeneration of western society, I cannot deny it. And I certainly don´t expect a gaming company committing acts of martyrdom

I may or may not suck at this game. that’s a fact and I mean it!

Now the problem we’re having here, is one of communication. Anet goes on and says silly stuff like we want feedback. The more I think about it the more I’m starting to believe that they really don’t.

Feedback on what exactly. I mean let’s recap for a moment the arguments here.

First, anet gives out exotics for the testing so it’s safe to assume that’s the entry lvl gear. Can’t remember who told me that (was a couple of people) but they are right. So to enter the new maps you need exotics. So none of that what will new players gonna do. The answer is farm and go get some exotics.

And then someone else (can’t remember his name) that they might have jacked up the density and respawn timers cause it was only 25% of a map and -everyone- was in there. And you know what? He’s probably right too

So what exactly are we testing here? They don’t communicate to us the objective of the test so how can we give feedback? How can we comment on the respawn times, or the density, or the normal, veteran, champ distribution, when they just don’t talk to us. All they say is give us feedback.

And then it’s that quote from collin. To quote one of my favourite bloggers Inventory full

>>They do seem to be mordantly committed to making things slower, more painful and more tedious. Sorry, sorry. Off message. Of course I mean more challenging, fun and involving. As they put it in the request for focused feedback after next week’s test:

“Do you feel the need to use your entire skill bar in battles?
Does teaming up with other players feel more rewarding?
Do you find yourself wanting to change your skills and traits to overcome encounters?
Warning—creatures will be more challenging than in the existing Guild Wars 2 world.”

To which I would expect my answers to be

“Why would I want to?
It already did, thanks.
At the risk of repeating myself, why would I want to?
If this is something I’m supposed to enjoy, why do you feel the need to issue a warning about it?”<<

I mean look at that.. look at those questions … need to use your entire bar in battle? really? do they not know that we can’t do that? we’ll have to use some of the kittenty skills now? and what about elites. does that mean that we should be using our elites on each and every battle? so if an elite has one minute cooldown it’s one battle per minute and then wait till the skill is available again?

Changing our skills around to over come challenge? So what, we’ll need to constantly change our selection of skills from battle to battle? that sounds awefully convenient and fun. If they wanted to use a greater variety of specs and mix up our skills a lot, give us build templates and 3 10 slot skillbars and -trust me- we’ll use them. Having us switch around this and that on X minutes intervals, doesn’t sound so much fun tbh.

And ofcourse they went silent. Cause god forbid they communicate with us about this “beta” testing thing, which feels more like a limited advertisement and hype move than actuall beta testing.

So, truly, the only possible feedback we can give in here, is if the mobs 3 shot you or 2 shot you or 1 shot you. Only this isn’t challenging. This is plain bad. A challenging mob has abilities and responds to your actions. And the people in here complained that they were being 3 shoted before they had a chance to respond. Only to be put down by people who were either bored or found the perfect opportunity to let the world know how awesome players they are cause they didn’t fell for it.

Anyways, every time I end up writting up small essays and nagging, but that’s only because I love the game and care enough about it to want to see it succeed.

And shame on them for 4 maps only. Shame on you anet, that’s a huge debt that would need to be repayed on the next expansion.

NitricRose.1863:

You might want to cancel the ad hominem and supply constructive criticism instead of bashing people.

I think everyone understands your position, however your attitude and lack of a cogent argument are working against you.

Despite your advocacy for a walk in the park, if you read the various threads, a large majority of the people like the challenge and the level, excepting some of the monsters (snipers and smokescales) and in places the monster density seems a bit high (perhaps the smokescales should not be so social).

I also suspect that the GW2 team had the respawn timer low on purpose to give the large population of beta testers something to fight.

I did provide constructive critisism showing how bad that idea was. You -just- conveniently left it out. How nice of you.

Also it would be great, if you understood what an ad hominem is. See, I didn’t say that he’s a bad person, and because of that his idea was also bad. I said that his idea was bad and then followed with some light sarcasm and irony while providing other bad ideas. So nowhere in there was a reference to that person’s character or use of it as a means to discredit the argument. But thanks for letting me know. Means a lot.

The argument has already been made. There’s nothing else to say about it. It is just fine as an argument, the problem here isn’t the argument I’m making. It’s the fact that the game hasn’t had any meaningfull update in such a long time, that everything now sounds amazing and fresh and fantastic. Simply put, people just for a weekend, got unbored. We got the “new car smell” in our nostrils, everything is super. But since i have 8 characters, 9 come this expansion, I tend to see things more longterm than others.

As for the “large majority” of people, I have my doubts. I think that us forum goers are the minority. So a large majority of a small minority, is still a small minority.

However I do think that a lot of people will be dissappointed. See, for the difficulty to have any meaning, the rewards must be better than what we get usually. But if the rewards are better, people will flock into the map, zerging everything and anything, farming mastery xp, mats, gold, whatever it is the rewards will be. But then, if in a zerg, the map is going to stop being “challenging”, cause if it is, the zerg will leave. They just can’t win with this one. Either they’ll keep the rewards the same and the difficulty the same and then nobody would be on that map after a couple of months cause it’s unproductive, or they’ll up the rewards and the map will become trivial anyways (because zerg) and farmed to death till they’re forced to curb the rewards again. Just a prediction. So ultimately, it’s in everyone’s best interests to keep the overall experience constant, since that’s what the players have been used to and nobody will object. Except maybe the loud minority in the forums. Plus they’ll be adding raiding or challenging world bosses anyways so everyone can get their “preferred” playstyle.

Instead what we have here are people advocating for a change in the design philosophy of the game. Just because they’re bored (my opinion, not a statement of truth for the easily confused).

As for the gear a new player will have, I have to admit (done it already) that it’s a very valid argument and anet did hand out exotics to the testers so it’s safe to assume that, that’s the expected entry gear into the maguuma. Having said that, i’m fairly sure that the heavy bulk of complaints comes from the people with that minor 12.5% edge (again opinion). You should try it btw, see how much easier everything is.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

No doubt they could have made a completely different advancement system. One possible one I can think of is where I harvest onions and do jumping puzzles in the old maps to advance the mastery line of learning how to speak to the Itzel and rip the husks off Mordrem, because I don’t want to earn the points in the new maps.

However they didn’t. The one they designed is one similar to other expacks, where you progress your character by “leveling” it in the new map and asking them to redesign the whole thing now is an excercise in futility. The only thing I can think of is to answer the guy why his idea is bad when combined with the new system and how it works and not encourage him to hope for the impossible.

Yours sounds more promising. Just saying…

The one they designed is a badly designed one. The choices in there are poor and meaningless, and are restricted in a way that feels and is artificial.

The difference with the guy and you, is that he tried to come up with something better and in the spirit of the game’s experience so far, and you didn’t (props for that last effort though).

Of course his system would work just fine if only we had many masteries to choose from, giving us trully unique results and the ability to experience the game differently with our characters. So masteries could include access to new zones, tons of lore, sets of emotes, sets of titles, silly convenience stuff you’d love to have just to show off, the occasional skin here and there, alternative animations for your abilities, nice visual auras to add to your weapons or your armour, fancy icons next to your name to show off what path you’ve chosen (like the world exploration star), exclusive hair cuts and hair colours, manes and horns for charr, all sorts of things to keep people in the game playing and staying busy. But that requires planing and effort, and anet is kinda in a hurry. But don’t bash the guy for trying. At least he tried.

I’m with you guy, I like your idea, with a bit of tweeking it could be a really nice system to keep us in game for a long time.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

If you could get mastery points, just by leveling then do you even need to try the harder stuff until you have all your Masteries? In theory, someone could stay at the first waypoint and do the first events over and over again, leveling up and getting mastery points while never venturing deeper into the jungle. You could have zergs of people farming mastery points in this manner, following a series of frequent, easy events It’s exactly this sort of scenario that means they had to separate mastery points from leveling.

If that’s how they want to play that’s their choice. You can play as you want. And they can too.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

It doesn’t affect me directly but it affects longevity of play. Just like the first players who at launch leveled the char to 80 quickly by crafting, bought the first Legendary with gold as soon as they could, then said there was nothing to do in the game and left, having the ability to progress Masteries by building up points beforehand means there will be a lot of people who do this then complain about how the expansion has nothing to do. Explain to ANet how this is an advantage for them having people quickly whip through their character progression model they’ve set up, and then have nothing to do till the next expansion.

or alternatevely they could come up with an advancement system that didn’t feel so empty and pointless as the one they came up with. There’s a reason expansions in other mmos add lvls, and anet isn’t the gaming guru who came up with the golden alternative. Surely this isn’t the best they could come up with…

Tanstaafl.9481:

Did not mean to seem offensive. I roam solo a lot and died a few times myself but after a while you get a feel for how the mobs play and you can avoid some and pick your fights with others as you get a feel for them.

I played my usual warrior a couple of races. The very first story mission was really a confusion for me but I managed. Went down once or twice in that mission. Then I played the second time, same class. I had a good idea of how the mobs played and was on that nasty archer first thing. Second mission play through went much better.

At first, follow around a couple people at night and stay cautious during the day. Sure it can be frustrating at first but It is a learning experience for sure.

You didn’t sound offensive Don’t be silly.

Winning a difficult fight is fun, having every fight being difficult isn’t. That was the point I tried to make

Am I the only one person around here who thinks that maybe it shouldn’t be frustrating at first?

Tanstaafl.9481:

Posting again to share this though. If you have a challenging experience, don’t you feel like this after it’s over?

not if everyfight is like that… for me at least, others claim differently

Druj Rosenkloitz.3729:

Hey!, Now I remember why I don’t post in the forums.

:D Peace

Cause you’re full of bad ideas and can’t stand the criticism that follows when you post?

just a guess :P

IndigoSundown.5419:

You’re missing a point about … snip … I do not believe that ANet can step back from the idea of offering somewhat greater challenge at this point.

I understand that, I just think the open world isn’t the place to do it?

In all honesty I don’t believe that I’m gonna be challenged in HoT but rather that you guys will be disappointed. But if the content is challenging, I’ll do what I always do, I’ll do the story and then ask myself if this is going to be fun for me in 6 months time. If the answer is no, I’ll leave the game, till they adjust the difficulty, if the answer is yes, I’ll stick around. We’re just discussing. Sometimes I do feel that some folk take things in here a bit too personally (not directed at you)

xadine.7069:

@PorceleinEve
Actualy no, it doesn’t make sense … snip …

Can’t argue with that. Not sure how many will go do orr and ls2 before hopping into HoT of course, but the choice is there and it has been the natural progression of the game. We’ll see I guess?

Coulter.2315:

I really hope they do take the opinions of regular and experienced players over self confessed noobs.

I really hope they listen to the right people.

I’m a regular player, I play 6 days a week, do I qualify? How does one measure an experienced player? Do you take a test to become certified? Or you just have to say so in the forums?

Fact is, we all pay equal amounts of money for this product, we all get our say. The company will do what’s best for its bottom line. You, or I, I don’t think we matter that much in the long run. If I did, this would be a different game all together.. we would have a seamless world, mounts, the ability to sit on chairs, an expansive emote system, actuall day and night cycles (were you could tell the difference cause the nights would be dark), underwater combat and so so much more. Just gonna let this thing here in case they decide to make guild wars 3 and want to try something revolutionary like making an actuall mmo, instead of the hamster boxes we get … just sayin’

comps.2309:

the more you say the more it becomes clear that you don’t know much about this game at all.

I don’t remember claiming anywhere that I do, in fact i remember saying how much of a noob I am, and how big of a casual I am. So you’d be correct in your assessment. I also remember saying that I don’t want to try at all. So not being an expert on the game -like you I take it- is a given. And still I get the same forum access as you do, and the game costs as much for me as it does for you. And hopefully my opinion is also worth to the company as much as your expert opinion.

Coulter.2315:

PorceleinEve.2973:

You go in with nuclear weapons and expect it to be tuned to your gear.

I expect it to be tuned for Exotics, yes… The beta equipped us with exotics… That is what it is supposed to be tuned for… I only got to use exotics in the beta… As did you.

What on earth are you trying to argue?!!

That if they don’t supply all players with exotic gear, they should tune it with whatever gear a fresh lvl 80 will go in. That should be the base. Makes sense yes?

Coulter.2315:

Is this seriously your counter argument? “Use blues.”

I hope everyone can read this and realise what kind of people are calling for mobs to be weakened. I never once mentioned gear progression in any of my posts either, I am appropriately geared for 80 and am happy that I will continue to be appropriately geared after HoT releases.

You have lost the debate if this is your attempt at an argument.

Yes it is. You go in with nuclear weapons and expect it to be tuned to your gear. What about the people who don’t have ascended and legendaries? What about a new player with green gear or yellow. They don’t count? How can you seriously expect the company to tune a zone with a fully geared player in mind. So yes, if you want to feel the challenge, downgrade your gear. I mean you do it for the challenge right? isn’t what all this has been about? the challenge? You have a means to up the challenge and experience what a new player experiences, while he doesn’t. Unless of course the company hands high lvl gear to everyone right before they go in.

What exactly do you think HoT is? the new raiding zones that have a gear check for people to check in? honestly I don’t understand you guys. At all. You went and got gear that made the game easy for you (which was the point of the gear after all, otherwise it wouldn’t provide stat upgrades) and now that you got it you don’t like how it’s gotten so easy that you have to spam 1 an everything is dead. Well, you got the skin, put on a blue item, use the skin and enjoy both the looks and the challenge. Don’t demand that everyone goes out to get geared up just to go in a zone in open world.

I’m calling for HoT to remain consistent with the rest of the game’s experience. That means that the content should be fairly easy if you’re full on ascended and with legendary weapons. It is illogical to demand to be “appropriately geared” just to enter a lvl 80 open world zone. It should be as easy or as hard as the other zones are. Consistency is a nice thing.

There’s no argument to be had. We’re just expressing our opinions here for the company to see and evaluate. It’s not a competition. And yes I do hope everyone sees this, especially the company, and decide that I do have a point and I do hope that you get your raids that are hard and challenging and your open world bosses that demand pug co ordination and tactics. That way we’ll both be happy.

comps.2309:

PorceleinEve.2973:

Also it would appear that mushrooms and gliders are obligatory first mastery unlocks, which is rather meh but what can you do…

well your other options are exalted lore or nuchoch lore, both of which are of questionable use at the start of the map, but then you’d know that wouldn’t you, having at least played most of the map in order to provide informed feedback.

I find lore much more interesting than gliding and mushrooms tbh, if only those 2 masteries provided some huh? so much for the play as you want chose and pick and all that. More like play as you want but you better start with mushrooms and gliding cause the rest are insignificant. The new progression system…

Coulter.2315:

In the game right now I annihilate every mob the same way and don’t care what it is, it makes no difference whether it is branded, icebrood, undead, or karka (only the vet+ don’t die instantly). They just are exterminated and I don’t even notice their mechanics.

We want an engaging game which plays back against you, we want mobs that aren’t just different skinned targets. These mobs feel different to fight and I would be very depressed if the nay-sayers in this thread scare anet away from the idea they are taking forward.

The people wanting the mobs weakened say that they “don’t want to try at all” (this is a direct quote look on page 9 if you don’t believe me), we cannot allow this mindset to dictate the game’s development.

or you can un equip the legendary, remove the ascended gear, equip yourself with nice white or blues and enjoy the difficulty.

You can’t ask for gear progression and then go around and claim that everything dies easily just by pressing the auto attack. Wasn’t everyone happy that they didn’t increase the lvl cap so as their gear stays relevant? Don’t come around afterwards wanting gear to become irrelevant again.

We cannot allow this mindset to dictate the game’s developement. You want challenge? Remove the op gear, play with blues.

comps.2309:

It seems a common misrepresentation that casual players equal players that don’t actually want challenge. being time limited does not mean someone has no desire to have at least some sort of challenge in their game play. it’s also fallacy to equate difficult content to being stressful for casual players. these things may apply to you personally but you in no way speak for everyone.

Personally I loved the new map, It took me by surprise when an archer killed me very quickly the first time I faced one, simply because I charged in with the same expectations as the rest of the game, that I’d steamroll through the whole map pressing 1 and face no challenge at all. out of the map and the behavior of mobhaving said that, after a few hours of play and with the glider and mushrooms available I found it easy to get around avoiding combat I didn’t want to face in order to get to events, having to learn the lays isn’t a bad thing and people will adapt.

Nope, that’s a false claim, nobody said casuals don’t want challenge. What we said was that we don’t want only challenge. Some challenge here and there is a nice break, fighting for dear life constantly and without reprieve is not. That’s what we’ve been saying. At least me. Difficult content isn’t necessarily stressful, that’s very correct. It’s content that kills you instantly when you don’t have a chance to respond that’s stressful, and that was what was claimed here. That a mob spawned behind them and because they weren’t in full focus mode, they were killed before they realized what was going on. I never speak for anyone else than myself. As is everyone. Even when the term “we” is used, it’s just a figure of speech, and not a statement of truth. I would expect everyone understands that already.

As for the difficulty as i said again elsewhere, it’s not only the mobs themselves but the density and the respawn timers. Individual mob difficulty (and i do mean difficulty in the sense that the mob responds to you and has abilities of its own and not just triple the hp and a 300% boost in damage) is not an issue as long as you can have the space to fight it, and not be in any danger from additional mobs. I don’t understand why folks only hang on one part of a potential solution and not a more holistic approach.

Also it would appear that mushrooms and gliders are obligatory first mastery unlocks, which is rather meh but what can you do…

Coulter.2315:

At no point did GW2 get marketed as a game for those who “don’t want to try at all”, I can’t support your desire to reduce the complexity of content because you try hard at work. I see you will defend your interests but it cannot be healthy to ask a game to not progress in complexity and required knowledge for 3 years. Asking for a faceroll expansion will kill it.

I hope you can play with friends and it isn’t too stressful but it must not cater to the “don’t want to try at all” crowd – it will kill the game.

It was advertised as an all inclusive, casual friendly game. And let’s be honest right now its open world and living story contents are areas of the game were you don’t have to try at all.

The complexity is already there, as is the option to not use it and still enjoy the game. I still only know that you blast fire fields for might, water fields for regen and you leap through smoke for invisibility and that’s all the complexity I ever needed from the game.

If casual friendliness isn’t healthy for the game, the game wouldn’t be casual friendly. Moving away from that though might hurt it. As for the folk who want challenging, they’re already giving you that, there no need to have it all over the place. It would be the equivalent of the pvp crowd wanting world pvp in a game that had none before.

Coulter.2315:

I want the content maintained as was seen in the beta, I haven’t enjoyed PvE this much in such a long time. I would be bitterly disappointed if complaints from people, who haven’t put much effort in, derail the trend to engaging content.

You can say you’re casual and want it to cater for you but you have so much already please just give us this – if you try a bit harder and learn what your class can do I’m sure you can enjoy it with me (its not even that hard really).

I hope anet stick to their guns and keep the game fresh.

You’re missing the point, I don’t want to try harder, i want to come home after a hard day of real life, sit on my pc for 2 hours and relax and unwind with some friends doing stuff that don’t stress, or strain me. I try hard already in life, in a game i don’t want to try at all.

I don’t get to make the decision if it’s gonna be casual friendly or not, I ‘m not collin (I promise), all i’m saying is that as a casual I expect the experience in this game to remain consistent. Trust me i’m not about to barge in on your challenging group content, i just want to roam the jungle, enjoy the story, grind my masteries while relaxing and go about my business. This game was marketed as an all inclusive casual friendly game, you’re not just asking for this little bit to change, you pretty much want the game to change target groups. And if it does, i’m sure people like me will leave the second we’re through with the story. Nothing more, nothing less.

Coulter.2315:

Ok you guys just seem to be having a competition over who uses the word ‘elitist’ more.. I’ll leave you to it.

Mobs are fine, people freaking out after very little time thinking about them should just look at the tools available to them.

as stated elsewhere, mob difficulty and mob density and respawn timers are all separate issues at work here contributing to the difficulty of the experience.

many people here didn’t complain about the difficulty of individual mobs (except maybe the snipers) but mostly about their density (making dodging and kiting difficult) and respawn timer (by the time they’ve killed one mob, another one just spawned right next to them) and that made it difficult for them.

it’s not one issue, but 3, and people with romantic ideas about the difficulty of the mobs aren’t really helping. whether you approve of it or not, this game was casual friendly, and as a casual i need it to remain that way if i am to enjoy it. if it doesn’t i’ll just stop playing. simple as that. but, since they’re asking for our opinion, we might as well share it.

Coulter.2315:

He said encourage parties not require and you know it, pretend victimhood to allow you to use the word “elitist” – classy…

he most definitely is elitist, the guy right over me agrees too.. oh but it’s “healthy” elitism so it’s ok… right?

i didn’t claim anything, most of all victimhood, i just pointed out the obvious, that he wants a certain kind of play to become dominant and that’s ok for him, but other types of play are “elitist” …

no victimhood what so ever in pointing out the double standards.

CodeHavoc.7926:

What I want in HOT:

1) Enemies that give you an actual challenge as seen with the current mobs in VB.
2) Encourages parties/ grouping
3) Encourages more than just pressing 1111111111 or the “stacking in a corner” meta I know most of us are tired of

What I don’t want in HOT:
1)Faceroll content. If you’re gonna add a challenge, give one.
2) One class trumps all. The last thing I need is the toxic “no ‘insert class’” we’ve seen in LFG’s for the past few years.
3)Elitism. Those people can stay in old Tyria speed running dungeons for all I care.

I’m good with the mobs kicking my kitten.

How can you not want elitism in hot when you practically say that only people who want to group should take part in the expansion and the rest can stay back in tyria… you don’t want other people’s brand of elitism, yours is just fine… just saying …

Druj Rosenkloitz.3729:

What I want to see is the later maps on HoT being actually difficult, say you have the night cycle on the last explorable map of HoT and you have to stay put until sunrise because if you leave the outpost (even in numbers) it will be near impossible to reach another outpost before getting killed. Say you make all waypoints contested during the night, so if you die you need your fellow players to res you or you will stay dead and miss the rewards. Add a few mobs that require serious coordination/maxed masteries to beat and you will have meaningful and engaging open world content.

this right here must be one of the worst ideas i’ve heard in a long long time for this game. night in guild wars 2 lasts for approximately 40 minutes. you want people to stay in a camp for 40 minutes because the mob difficulty and density is such that even with a group of players you won’t make it. you want them to stop whatever it is they’re doing and just hang in there for 40 minutes fighting off mobs that require coordinated effort and max masteries just to stay alive. oh my god, the fun. and if they don’t make it in time for that amazing content they’ll die, and stay dead unless they res in another map (points in this one would be contested) or some other person comes to res them and then die right next to them so they can socialise in a meaningful manner those 40 minutes. brilliant, just brilliant.

you sir, should apply for a developer position. you’ve got this.

i suggest they also develop a system where they can send small charges of electricity through your mouse and keyboard. and when you die or get hit, you take a small electric shock, you know to help you improve.

also, reverse leaderboards. scrap the best, record the worst and then publish their names in the website each month so as the rest of the community can mock and ridicule the worst players.

Zetsumei.4975:

Are you guys (asking for mounts) opposed to having mounts with no speed increase? Because thats a much more realistic request to be honest

nope in a game where cosmetics mater, that would be a wonderful addition imo.

also if they can add gliding to the rest of tyria that could work also. as long as we’re not always going down since we got lots of flat areas in tyria…

Yes to mounts, and while you’re on it, no to zones, Say no to boxes with events, say yes to proper seamless worlds. Add phasing to solve the overpopulation issues in one zone but keep the world seamless. Say no to invisible walls too (since I remembered it).

Say yes to mordremoth destroying most waypoints in a zone, and say yes to the new way of moving abouts, mounts.

Also, say yes to ranger pets remembering their names and not acting like total kittens. Say yes to dolphins as underwater pets for rangers and while we’re on it, say yes to underwater combat (fix that shi7 it’s great).

We’re not hamsters to run events in boxes, we humans who wish to travel on other worlds through their screens…

Let the revolution begin!

Algreg.3629:

so you are suggesting you lack the ability to improve and adapt by repetition and applying thought to problems, a basic ability every human being has and usually enjoys actually?

yes i’m at my peak right now, my physical and cognitive abilities are as high as they can go i’m afraid.

especially when the problem is mob density and respawn times. no matter how much i try to problem solve i always reach the same conclusion. the company should reduce the mob density and increase the respawn timer. leading to fewer mobs all around the map.

individual mob difficulty could or could not be overcome with my current mental and physical abilities (remains to be seen, i’m very weak as you no doubt noticed yourself). depends entirely on how bothersome, tiresome i’ll find the whole affair. if it feels like working at any moment, instead of fun, i’m afraid i’ll just crack internally. i just don’t have the mental resilience and persistence you do my friend. i’m deeply sorry if that annoys or offends you.

anduriell.6280:

actually i’m not that good neither you are that bad.
The problem i see now is that you will need to addapt. If you can play in the Silverwastes or Shouthern Cove you’ll be able to play in this map as well. But first we’ll have to learn how to get around because the enemies now react to our actions, which is good.
Also just saying but you don’t need to spend 100€ in the game, you have other versions.

But believe me when i say this, if you don’t give up that easy not only you’ll end up playing this maps but also you’ll see how they are not that difficult as at first we thought.

There are 2 distinct issues at play here that folks tend to lump up together.

Difficulty of the actual mobs, and density of said mobs. Even if the mobs are easy to deal with, if it’s one on top of the other that’s still an issue. And again let me say that we’re talking about trash mobs here. There is a reason we’re calling them that.

Ultimately the company needs to balance the mob’s difficulty and density not on the needs of the people with ascended gear and legendary weapons but on the needs of a fresh lvl 80 who moved into the maguuma jungle. He needs to be able to quest in there (well “quest”) with some relative comfort. I mean they’ve already abolished all ideas of story and theme for a zone and they go with the concept of box with events so we can grind like hamsters on the wheel. Might as well make that not a chore.

Of course it’s their game and they can up or down the difficulty as much as they want, but since i feel that us casuals are the lifeblood of the game, that maybe our needs should be considered to.

Well, I don’t have to spend a dime for the game, they still haven’t convinced me that this isn’t some quick cash grab with 3 map/boxes were they expect us to grind events like idiots for some elusive progression that’s not even applicable to the whole world but those 3 boxes only. That’s still not my idea of an expansion. And yet, i still like the story enough to get the expansion but not if i’m gonna get cancer from trash mobs. I have other stuff I have to worry about in my life, trash mobs in a game shouldn’t be one of them.

In the end, i like the game for what it is now, and i really want this meager “expansion” to succeed cause i’m still hoping for a proper one in 1.5 years after this one. And all i see since this expansion was announced is a deliberate attempt to make everything more grindy and prolonged without actuall reason… went off topic. sorry thread…

anduriell.6280:

Now I don’t understand this complains. Seriously i main a ranger ut i’ve been playing with a reaper and a DH. Classes i don’t really know well but i didn’t have any trouble with the game.
Actually i find the trash mobs even easy. I don’t see real difficulty in the snipers and i roam alone.
Did i die? sure, but that happens when i roam mindlessly around not being aware of the environment.

• For the ones that state this is a casual game The players that began years ago playing it casual now are hardcore. the same that in some time the actual casuals will be. they need maps adequate for they level to ensure longevity, something that other MMOs failed to provide.

Well, you’re a pro, and we’re noobs. Obviously. And not only that, but our skill ceiling is far far lower than yours. I’m peaked already and I die horribly to dead mobs. Yes, i ’m THAT bad.

It is a casual game, I can play it. And no, not all casuals are hardcore now. I joined years ago as casual, and casual i’ve remained. I guess we’re not deserving of anet’s affections and our money are no good? If that’s the case they should really do the honorable thing and let us know about it. I don’t want to blow 100 euros for a game that doesn’t want or value me as a customer. Honesty is the best approach i feel.

xadine.7069:

This thread explain exactly why gw2 fail with Endgame content.

Players complain about how hard mobs are, when it just take a couple of hours to understand how to face them. A tanky necro down in 2s because of 3 snipers? I highly doubt that since I play zerk necro and it never happened to me. But sure it may happened but it’s not surprising for a HL map in any RPG if you’re alone and not “focus”.
They complain about how hard it is to move alone in a HL map of a MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYERS online kitten . You’re not suppose to run like a rabbit in a HL map in any RPG. And tbh after a couple of hours you come back to basics knowledge “go alone and move slowly or join a party” wich is the whole point of a MMO (not being alone).

Players ask for END GAME and HARD CONTENT and that’s what we have. And I seriously hope that Colin’s “Challenging Content” will be a lot more challenging.

I think you are missing the point. The main complaint here (as i understand it at least) is that the game is moving away from it’s original all inclusive, casual friendly nature. Nobody here says that there’s shouldn’t be challenging content. To the contrary. We all want it. Just not in the trash mobs. On maps where the respawn points are few and away from were you’ll end up dieing. One challenging mob, is fun. 1000 aren’t, especially if you have to travel to get to someplace you need to be. That’s not fun. That’s working in a game, and, some people are already working in real life. They don’t want to spend their 2 hours of playtime per day working in the game too. Simple as that. Challenging content belongs in raids, or even open world bosses were participation is not mandatory. You can choose to go do it, or you may not. But forcing it on everyone, even the folks who just enjoy the story and want to roam around a bit, i feel is wrong and in the long term will hurt the game. People here aren’t asking for something different. You are. The rest are asking for the game to retain its 1 to 80 form. They bought the game, it wasn’t particularly hard or challenging to get to 80. And when they got to 80, the content there wasn’t particularly challenging either. So people are justified to not want the game to be particularly challenging in the jungle as well. They’re asking for consistency of the experience. You change the nature of the experience and you have fewer players logging in. My 2c

dsslive.8473:

PorceleinEve.2973:

dsslive.8473:

After not having played for awhile, these mobs certainly showed how i’m not that used to the combat anymore ^^ died several times, but kitten that was awesome. Loving how these mobs are actually strong (or i jsut suck rly much :p), i did do a lot better with chrono then with rev, but then i’m more used to mesmer so makes sense.

Keep em how they are, they should be more challenging.

since you’re in the betah and i’m not, a more pertinent question is this.. can you imagine yourself playing against such mobs for a 2 or 3 hour session? that’s the important bit (for me), that’s the gauge. that’s what’s been on my mind.

I wanna say yes, but i haven’t really played enough yet to really know Will play for a longer time tommorrow so i’ll find out.

thanks for answering, and if you come to a conclusion please let us know here.

dsslive.8473:

After not having played for awhile, these mobs certainly showed how i’m not that used to the combat anymore ^^ died several times, but kitten that was awesome. Loving how these mobs are actually strong (or i jsut suck rly much :p), i did do a lot better with chrono then with rev, but then i’m more used to mesmer so makes sense.

Keep em how they are, they should be more challenging.

since you’re in the betah and i’m not, a more pertinent question is this.. can you imagine yourself playing against such mobs for a 2 or 3 hour session? that’s the important bit (for me), that’s the gauge. that’s what’s been on my mind.

Algreg.3629:

PorceleinEve.2973:

I say make ‘em even harder, one wrong dodge and you’re down in one hit. That way the casuals will leave even faster and the game will follow the path of wildstar. That ’ll be “hardcore” ammirite?

if you died in WS from every single hit, it really illuminates just how bad a player you are. But I guess you just picked that up to sound informed.

there was a point to be made there friend, but i’m afraid you missed it.

however if it makes you feel better, i’m a bad player. lots of people are. i dare say most of us are.

now, imagine us gone.

see the point yet?

mmos are businesses, not charities. hardcore apparently isn’t a sustainable model for mmos the size of guild wars 2. or maybe they are. keep asking for that hardcore content and we’ll find out, i guess.

let’s see how many of us, and for how many hours can play an mmo were mobs require your full focus. i bet that’s a nice unwinding experience to have after a day at work.

bleh, what do i know anyways, i am after all, as you said, a very bad player

I say make ‘em even harder, one wrong dodge and you’re down in one hit. That way the casuals will leave even faster and the game will follow the path of wildstar. That ’ll be “hardcore” ammirite?

Roxer.4609:

Is it really that bad for the Vets?

I can’t answer for all the vets but it most certainly is for me.

I have 8 alts, none of which i have any desire to part from. That means that I will have to fork out another 10 euros to get me another slot to play the revenant, which would be content bought and payed for by getting the “expansion”. That takes the price up to 55 euros for me. I find that unfair and shady.

To top it off, I brought 2 friends in the game, which are now faced with the dilemma of either losing their accounts, along with their progress and any gem purchases they did to get a refund, or buy the game again. I have problems looking ’em in the eye because of that. I feel ashamed for dragging them into a deal like this. It was supposed to work like, get the game now, and buy the expansion later. They kinda feel cheated as well.

And all this time we have the white knights telling us how entitled we are and what idiots we are, and how we act like little children. The silence on Anet’s part isn’t helping things either. It feels like they’re reading the posts and then laugh their bottoms off with the drama. Now that I think about it, I don’t much feel like a valued customer any more. My will to play is slowly sapping away…

Samnang.1879:

I don’t understand why ANET have to be stubborn about this. Just give veteran players a character slot as a bonus or 1000 gems. Is that so hard to do?

If you’re giving a bonus to new players, give bonus to veteran players too… it’s common sense…

the reason is simple. Veteran players now either have to delete a character or buy another character slot if they want to play the revenant (content which they have bought already when they bought the expansion). if they gave away a free character slot or 800gems, we wouldn’t be spending another 10 euros to get another character slot, and thus they’ll be loosing money. it’s a great tactic to fleece players and make them profoundly unhappy apparently.