Guild Wars 2

So the devs are hipsters because you don’t like the terminology they use? Your weapon damage in nearly every RPG is always modified to give you the numbers you see on your screen when you hit by a huge number of variables. They could easily just call their power ratings for weapons damage instead and still modify using all the other variables to get the same numbers. I’m not sure why calling it power or damage bothers you so much or think it’s somehow the most fundamental component of an RPG.

Oh man thank you for explaining that. I was so lost and thought you all had lost your minds. I figured everyone was playing off an internet meme that I just didn’t find funny.

veritech.1048:

OP said that range has it easier than melee.

You all went out of your way to try and explain to OP how to play melee, by using combos/abilities/toughness, when his point was range doesn’t need to do any of that stuff to be effective.

Not really. This is only true if the mob is attacking someone else aka your melee. If you were all ranged the mob would still come after someone and that person would be either kiting or dodging just the same. Whoever is doing the dodging and abilities to keep the aggro and essentially tie the mob up be it range or melee is essentially what’s causing everyone else to be able to pew pew.

I’m not sure how to respond to the idea of all classes being able to melee effectively. If we make it so all classes including the cloth ones can get in melee and be effective I’m not sure how you can do that without either lowering damage significantly in effect making warriors and guardians boring because there would be no threat to them. Seems like you would have to somehow make it so wearing armor doesn’t matter or something which seems like a bad idea. Seriously though who rolls a cloth or leather class and expects to be able to tank hits and wreck shop in melee besides maybe thieves?

eisberg.2379:

Doesn’t matter what the initial intention was during the development of Guild Wars 1, that is completely irrelevant. All that matter is what is released when the game releases. When GW1 released, Guild Wars was in reference to the event that happened before GW1 began, despite what was the initial intention was when development began.

So you don’t think the design intent they had during the time they named the game had any impact on the name? That would be amazing if true especially when the name they decided on matches perfectly to the original design intent.

I never played Guild Wars 1 but I do remember reading a very long interview/article while the original game was in development. The design intent at that time was centered around a player based world where their actions impacted everything. The game as I understood it was supposed to be centered around Player vs Player and Guild vs Guild pvp where guilds could take over and manage entire cities and other guilds would try to invade etc. The went into detail about how they were aiming for ship vs ship battels on the open sea etc. Not sure how far GW1 went with that it was probably one of the coolest design intents I’d ever read about but got caught up with RL so didn’t ever play. That’s where the original name came from it’s a fanchise now so it makes sense to stick with it even if GW2 doesn’t reflect that original design intent at all.

Pikafan.3792:

Proeliator.8740:

Pikafan.3792:

Hint: Players using ranged weapons have the flexibility of running into melee to deal damage if they so wish. The same can’t really be said about players wielding melee weapons running into ranged.

What game are you playing again? Melee lacks flexibility? I believe all the classes except maybe Guardian have ranged options. Thieves and warriors can dodge out and switch to bows or guns just as easily as a ranged class can run into melee. I for one do this routinely as part of my gameplay whenever I take a big hit or appear to be taking to much damage. I really don’t understand some of you at all. It’s like we’re not even playing the same game.

<Removed – Keep it friendly folks ~ Dalmarus>
Players using ranged weapons have the flexibility of running into melee to deal damage if they so wish. The same can’t really be said about players wielding melee weapons running into ranged.

Keywords: Players using ranged weapons…..players wielding melee weapons
A thief or a warrior switching (from a melee weapon) to a bow or gun would be equivalent of a player using a melee weapon becoming a player using a ranged weapon.

In conclusion, because of your myopic ignorance, you utterly fail to grasp it is the melee weapons having a disadvantage over ranged weapons that people have problems with, not the classes which are predominantly melee having a disadvantage over classes which are predominantly ranged.

(Ranged weapon > Melee weapon) =/= (Ranged class > Melee class)
Then again, I don’t expect lower life forms to be able to grasp finer nuances that only humans.

Removed – keep it friendly folks ~ Dalmarus

Pikafan.3792:

Players using ranged weapons have the flexibility of running into melee to deal damage if they so wish. The same can’t really be said about players wielding melee weapons running into ranged.

Please explain how this matters in the least bit? What class is this an advantage for? I haven’t made every class but let’s be specific here? What class is using a ranged weapon effectively in melee or would even want to? I haven’t seen one. I’m also using the language you embedded in your first post which was about “flexibility” Melee can switch to ranged and vice versa. That’s the epitome of flexibility. Does the weapon swap bother you or something? Also many of my melee weapons have at least one ranged attack on them so again you have no point at all.

Pikafan.3792:

In conclusion, because of your myopic ignorance, you utterly fail to grasp it is the melee weapons having a disadvantage over ranged weapons that people have problems with, not the classes which are predominantly melee having a disadvantage over classes which are predominantly ranged.

You’re grasping at straws here. Melee weapons deal more damage. That’s called balance. It’s the one shot mechanics that are a problem if anything and I think it’s fine there needs to be some danger or else we would all be asleep while playing.

Pikafan.3792:

Hint: Players using ranged weapons have the flexibility of running into melee to deal damage if they so wish. The same can’t really be said about players wielding melee weapons running into ranged.

What game are you playing again? Melee lacks flexibility? I believe all the classes except maybe Guardian have ranged options. Thieves and warriors can dodge out and switch to bows or guns just as easily as a ranged class can run into melee. I for one do this routinely as part of my gameplay whenever I take a big hit or appear to be taking to much damage. I really don’t understand some of you at all. It’s like we’re not even playing the same game.

Rukia the thread is about melee in general and the guy who started the thread is a warrior. Thieves are 1/3 of what I consider the primary melee classes warriors, guardians, and thieves. Saying someone’s opinion is irrelevant because they play a warrior in a thread about melee is silly and completely ignores the context of the thread. If you want to start a thread about thieves not having enough survivability in PvE by all means go for it.

Rukia.4802:

^You’re a warrior, nuff said.

So who exactly is having problems thieves? I don’t know the mechanics and skills but I would think you would have an option for many defensive traits and skills? It could be thieves have a survivability problem I’m not sure but from what I understand they have some of the highest DPS in the game especially spamming heartseeker so I could see some of them pulling agro and dying due to that broken skill alone. If you are expecting to not have to move in combat or use defensive skills and in your case stealth I’m not sure what to say “staying on your toes” is what makes this game fun to me.

Finally I think the guy who started thread is a warrior no and if so I believe my post is very relavant? Thanks

I don’t understand this thread or the minority of players agreeing with it. I main a warrior and also have an elementalist. This game is one of the few that is actually even if not favors melee. This thread seems to be a typical complaint thread with little context or proper perspective and lots of QQ.

With my warrior I’m able to stay in melee for long periods of time and have the HP and defense to actually survive and get away if I do start taking a lot of damage. With the exception of a few one shot attacks from bosses which must be dodged I have almost no trouble at all. I am usually doing the most damage while being the lowest level and I’m also holding the aggro a lot of times controlling the fight. Sure I have to use knock downs and kite a bit if I take too much damage but that’s every single character in the game at least I can take the punishment. When I’m in dungeon groups I rank the melee characters at the top of my list. From my experiences I rarely die while my ranger, elementalist, engineer, mesmer, friends go down farm more often due to not being able to take any hits.

You need defense and also a few defensive skills like stability etc. You can’t just go 100% dps and expect to stand there and wack away that’s so silly I shouldn’t have to explain why.

I hate to be so negative but this thread is one of countless threads on here with no basis or legitimacy. This really is a learn to play issue. I feel I can say this as I’m one of these melee toons the game is so biased against and I feel like I’m extremely powerful and actually feel sorry for other classes sometimes.

Cogbyrn.7283:

I can tell you’re from the internet, Proe, because you quoted me and said that my feelings were hurt.

We’re all from the internet or else we wouldn’t be in forums at all. How else should I describe what you’re doing here? The guy posted pretty fun video of him pawning a bunch of guys that are probably lower level and way less geared. He admits as much in the first post. You then tell it reflects badly on him? Come on loosen up a little it’s not like he started this thread saying “look how awesome I am”

Cogbyrn.7283:

The scaling is nowhere near perfect. If you happened to ever check your stats in WvWvW while leveling, you’d notice huge disparities, especially in the power and toughness areas. With full traits and a full set of 80 gear, you have a very large advantage. I stack power and precision on my gear, at at level 49, in WvWvW, I’m at 2369 attack and 22% crit with 42 crit damage. Toughness is at 2332, health at about 21000. In sPvP with my desired build, my Attack is more along the lines of 3300, crit’s at ~48%, crit damage around 52. That isn’t even counting the traits I’m missing .

If you re-read his original post you will see he acknowledges everything you just regurgitated. Not sure how you restating what has already been said gives you the right to say you’re providing realism? I’m not even sure why you’re posting except to hate.

Zefiris.8297:

Waar Kijk Je Naar.8713:

Errr, in most games the average “hardcore” player pays about 10 times as much as the average “casual” player..

No, actually. It’s the other way round.
The average “hardcore” player plays 10 times as much as the average “casual” player, while the average casual player pays 10 times as much.

This means that hardcore players are a LOSS for a company.
-They cause more traffic
-They chew through content faster, increasing development time
-They care more for non-issues, like minor skill imbalances (which are in the game by design, refer to the extra credits episode), requiring additional funds for dealing with this

Casual gamers give more money and cost less. Remember, the entire freemium concept arose of casual games. Casual gamers usually have a job, unlike hardcore gamers (who tend to be students or still in school), which means casuals are more likely to buy conveniences.

The hardcores usually do not bother with them because they give no advantages ingame.

This is all actually very true. Even though I like my games hard it annoys me to no end when other players power level straight through a game put in about 10-20 times the hours to do everything in a month after release burning themselves out and then complain they have nothing to do or that a game is boring. It’s like watching a guy scarf down a double cheeseburger in less than 5 sec and then complain he’s still hungry.

Ideally a game would be designed to target neither the bottom 50% or the guys described above. I do think there needs to be a reward and challenges available to the players who aren’t putting in a ton of time but who are just good tactical players that want to be able to play challenging content without facerolling and be rewarded for it.

You can actually see they have some of this built in by allowing you to take on monsters higher level than you and being rewarded for it. My favorite thing to do is to go to a zone way too high for me and take on mobs 5-7 levels higher than me. I pretty much get green loot off of most of them which is awesome. It’s fun for me and completely just to challenge myself. Not mandatory in any way but they have a reward system built in for it. Pretty cool

Deltasniper have you experimented with other builds? I’m not 80 yet but I was thinking of doing something like 20/20/30 with last stand and spiked armor.

The extra defense and health regen seems more than worth the trade off for the slight dps loss. Seems like we’re doing plenty of DPS anyway.

Cogbyrn.7283:

I saw the first 20 seconds where it shows a frenzy->100 Gajillion Blades combo, then I closed the window.

I almost didn’t open the window when it was claimed that GS doesn’t have mobility “like all the others”. 1000000000000 Blades is only the main damaging skill when you crutch on it.

Unfortunately, videos like this will only spawn more “Nerf Quadrillion Blades” threads.

EDIT – The bravado against stand-stills and players most likely much lower level than you also reflects negatively against you as a player. It’s fine if you’re fine with that, I’m just letting you know.

So many hurt feelings in one post. Let the man have his fun.

Casual players always win out in the end. They never will admit they want the game to be easy for them they say they want it to be “fun” and by fun they mean they don’t want it to be too challenging. The thing that sucks though is that a game without a challenge is no fun for anyone. If you make it so the bottom 50% can do something then you ruin it for everyone because it’s no longer a challenge for anyone. This entire game is face roll easy except arguably the dungeons and competitive PVP. What more can casual players possibly want? By the way I would be considered a casual player by most standards but I dabble in the hard core and love a challenge. When they make a game that’s really hard it motivates me that much more to play it. The idea of being able to do something few can is really intoxicating but then again I love competition.

yes please

“eat my dust” annoys me so badly when my warrior gets a speed boost. I’d rather him not talk if he’s not going to say something cool

Well you’re certainly a God among men in that Video

I’m pretty sure you can zoom in with the camera if you’re having problems with animations.

Saga.1652:

I’d say yes and no. Often 5 man dungeons have become nothing more than “rez zerg” which is rezzing time and time again during the encounter until the boss dies. It feels lacking. Then there’s the cathedral “endgame” events, which are nothing more than a zerg.

This isn’t a consequence of removing the trinity though so I’m not sure why you mention it. Rez zerging is a separate issue many want removed which won’t change their views on the trinity being removed.

Fillet.6840:

I think may complain because PvE feels more like PvP with the random-ish Aggro Table. PvE’rs like control. Controlling who the mob hits, how much damage they should do, When the damage will come. This game doesn’t have that and its scary for some.

qft

Doing away with the trinity was the single biggest step forward that ANET has made in MMO development. Now I could very easily belittle and be condescending towards those that want that type of play style because it’s very easy but I won’t. I want to focus on why moving in this direction is such a good thing.

What some have stated is “chaos” is not chaos at all it’s the totality of individual decisions between actions and skills of the group. It can become chaos if there is no coordination among teammates and everyone is just doing what they want. You can fix this really fast by simply having a quick strategy session before getting started and adapting as you go along. “Bad players” as some would call them stand out a lot more in a game like this because everyone is primarily responsible for their own survival and in many ways has to make decisions on an individual level. You can’t just stand in place and spam our rotation of abilities anymore. The thing that makes it so elegant is that the “roles” aren’t simply given to you like in other games. The fighter isn’t always the tank. The cleric isn’t always the healer. This opens up the doors for much more dynamic and diverse gameplay. Having trouble dying? Maybe you have too many skills and traits devoted to DPS instead of survivability. If the entire team is balanced towards group benefiting skills and traits the synergy provided among diverse classes is very strong.

Doing away with traditional tanking has made for a much more dynamic and less scripted combat. The choreographed dance of the tank pulling agro and the “mobs” just hitting away at him while the healer heals and the dps does their thing is boring beyond belief. What’s the point of having AI if you already know exactly what it’s going to do and who it’s going to target? I can’t tell you how many times I’ve played a traditional MMO and while yawning away the fight performing my role thought “it would be cool if this thing would do something smart like stop focusing the tank and turn on that thief, wizard, or better yet go kill that healer that’s making this fight so hard for it.

Finally I for one hate being pigeon holed into a specific role. Maybe it’s just my personality but I suspect many are like me in that I want to be able to do it all to some degree. If I’m being honest I see no point to classes. We as players should have the ability to level our character and have him/her be as diverse as our individual personalities. You spent a bunch of time leveling a character to level 80 and that character should be good at whatever you have invested time in getting that character good at. You should be able to invest time in that character to get good at other things without having to level a completely different character to pick up things like spell casting, stealth, whatever. I’m not saying there shouldn’t be trade offs. If you get better at something like casting spells it should deteriorate your ability to fight with a sword or use stealth if you aren’t practicing those.

Anyway I can deal with having classes and being tied to certain abilities because I chose that class but please don’t take backwards steps by forcing us back into simple minded “roles” which aren’t truly reflective of our unique and changing taste. All that does is dumb down and simplify encounters while giving fewer options on how to defeat them.

People simply love to complain. It’s what some people do best actually. You could give them exactly what they ask for and they would still complain about it. It’s so bad that many actually feel the need to go to forums and create threads specifically to tell the world about it seemingly as often as possible.

Unfortunately there are going to be two groups of players at constant odds with each other no matter what game we’re describing. Those that want the game to be easy and be able to do every part of the game and will ask that it be made easier so until they can and those that want parts of the game to be difficult and challenging so that the best can prove themselves etc. You can rarely satisfy both groups all of the time any many complaints I hear are related to this fundamental difference in some way.

Aih will be back. I think the percentage of people who start a thread to announce their uninstall who end up playing again is quite high.

That being said it sounds like Aih is more into strategy games than anything. If slow methodical decision based games are your cup of tea go play chess or another strategy game that’s more to your liking. I appreciate strategy games quite a bit which is why I dislike all of Aih assertions so much.

What he sees as chaos I see as fast paced strategy. Doing away with the traditional class roles has opened so many different possible tactics among different classes and combinations it’s just so fun. Anyone who doesn’t see that simply doesn’t want to think too hard or simply isn’t comfortable with the pace.

Last thing is that if a game isn’t designed in a way that is what you may consider the optimal way it doesn’t make it bad it’s simply doesn’t meet your exact taste. Why people feel the need to tell the world about it is beyond me.