Call me Smith.
Won’t Sc/D bunker be possible to run again now? Signet of Restoration and Cleansing Water are all it really needs, right?
Call me Smith.
I think coupling your idea with a few more WvW maps that count towards your server’s score would help. I’d say two or three more.
Call me Smith.
I’m trying to explain what is meant when a trait is “too good”. I don’t have a solution for it, but you can admit yourself that the trait is seen as mandatory for a lot of Warrior builds. Any trait that can boost a class’ power level by that much should normally be designed as a Grandmaster trait. Something should be done to rectify this, but until it’s done you can’t move the trait from Master level. You also shouldn’t just provide easier access to it, as it just introduces another avenue of power creep. Your suggestion for the Greatsword just adds another level of synergy that makes the trait even more mandatory for builds.
The best thing I can think of doing is providing alternate options that are on the same strength level as Cleansing Ire or Deceptive Evasion but are either not very synergistic with those traits or are added in ways that make them not available to current meta builds. Some of the Grandmaster traits being introduced do give options that aren’t immediately useful for these traits or ask you to change up your trait spread and find a new build still using CI or DE if you want to try the new trait (and closing off the synergy of CI or DE with some other trait).
Also, you know Hammer’s Earthshaker has 600 range and 240 radius? That’s 840 range for a burst skill on a melee weapon. Add Signet of Strength, one of the new Grandmasters, or the improved Sigil of Intelligence and I think that’s fine enough. If you want something that’s 900+ range and a projectile rather than a leap, then use a weapon that fires projectiles. Trade offs.
Call me Smith.
That I don’t believe. I have never seen in practice a condition build causing 10k damage via burst. I am not even sure that is possible in theory. They can deal huge amounts of damage, after they have stacked up the conditions on you after time. But that is no burst. Please elaborate on your claim.
I don’t know if this count as a real condi burst, but being able to deal +15k condition damage in 10s is pretty huge.
At least half of that damage looks like it comes from direct damage and confusion procs.
Call me Smith.
I already explained in another thread why this idea is BAD:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/balance/Decap-Engi-HamBow-Warrior-S-P-Thief-nerfed
Summary: long range unblockable attacks with very low cooldown = overpowered and easily abused for other things as well. Cleansing ire is already too good for a 20 point trait. No viable warrior build is without it.
Wait, so Warrior isn’t viable w/o CI, but it’s too good for a 20 point trait? Are you saying that Warrior Should have to spend 30 points JUST to be viable? We already spend those 30 points on average but good God if we HAD to spend 30 points that would make the build variety drop down to Guardian levels. I think the only way you can have viable condi removal w/o is Soldier’s runes with 3 shouts and a traited Warhorn.
Cleansing Ire is needed for Warrior to be viable, so why is it too good? Do you just want Warriors to go back to being spammed to death by conditions so that if you see a condi user you should just turn the other way? I don’t understand your logic. Sounds like you just want Warriors to be unable to kill condi builds.
A trait like that is too good when it becomes practically mandatory for the class. Mesmer is like that right now with Deceptive Evasion. There are even people that want Deceptive Evasion to be baked into the basic mechanics of the class. That’s how good Cleansing Ire is for Warrior right now.
Call me Smith.
So what you’re saying is that you want something that was essentially never ending, in tiers, with some type of ever increasing reward for each tier? That you’ll need some kind of never ending material goal so you can keep on playing forever?
Call me Smith.
That’s side stepping the issue. If both sides are running tanky builds, then other differences in stomp ability and downing ability show up. What you’re really saying is that builds that are better for stomping are too good at downing as well, at least against the builds that are supposed to be good at downing. That’s a balance issue, not an issue with the downed state.
Removing the downed state wouldn’t really stop people from playing tanky builds.
Call me Smith.
Looking in terms of PvP, Amulets with 4 stat combinations. Especially one with Power primary and Condtion as either secondary or tertiary.
Call me Smith.
However, the problem with downed state is that it hinders the focus on active defenses thiis game was supposed to have.
Classes like DPS guardian (incredibly squishy, but with excellent active defenses) can down you, but then they have to stand still for some seconds to kill you.
In a group fight, that means that they can’t actually stomp. Or ress. Unless they want to die aswell. One reason more not to roll a high risk/high reward build, and instead use hambow warrior, one of the highlords of downed state (stability+crowd control).
Having no downed state would actually give more of a chance of defeating enemies while outnumbered, and some fights wouldn’t be decided by class comp (example: a 2v2 between 2 hambows and 1 med guard and 1 ele, the warriors might win just because they will be able to ress each other).
It’s also one of the reason why stability is so important.
Is it really a bad thing to have builds that are better for taking down players and builds that are better for stomping? That’s the very first step to having roles for team combat and not just 5 solo players.
Call me Smith.
Rank 80 is still a long term goal. Getting a Legendary is still a long term goal. Is what you want a possible infinite goal? Some people in PvE complain about the same thing after getting their Legendaries and Ascended Armor, and all I can think about is how to find a balance?
Longevity always felt like it was better served by things that bring you back to the game with even slightly different experiences and goals. For WvW and PvP this tends to be tournaments with prizes, and for PvE it’s the Living Story.
I will be rank 80 and im super casual. During some weeks i dont play any games and during other weeks i play a few more. But never more than a 2 hours a day. Shortly after the release i quit GW2 for several months even to go back to wow arenas.
If what i have rankwise is the finishline of our longterm goal, the hardcore players will be left in the cold. It doesnt make sense to do this tbh. Are we turning in to wow where every single player needs to see everything and get the same rewards as the hardcore players?
How many PvP matches have you played? How many hours have you put in? And how many would you recommend it being for Dragon Rank?
Even with the increased rank rewards it should take months of casual play to reach the new Rank 80. The game has been out for a year and a half.
Will people really be better served by an infinite/never ending type of grind? Or at least so much longer that it takes more than half a year of casual play to do?
Everyone here is on the same page on one thing, the rank progression should continue past 80 in some meaningful way, people should be able to differentiate themselves when they get to r80, whether it’s by a number or finisher or title or anything else.
I agree that having something to differentiate yourself at rank 80 would be nice. But it should not be through a grind/rank system. It should be through a specific achievement system. Like the current tournament win system for titles.
Call me Smith.
(edited by Proven.2854)
So the patch is probably already ready to ship and these crys will probably have little or no effect on whether or not we see this change, but what the heck Ill post anyways.
Build I run that this change ruins:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vgAQJAWRlknpWtNoxMNcrNig6B2ldfHJFmGrVSBudhA-ToAg0CuIKSVkrITRyisFN+Y9BThe logic given by the dev’s defending this so far falls very short in my opinion.
Build customization != intimidation in any case.
When people are hesitant to enter pvp, I can say with great confidence that stat choices in amulets has very little/ nothing to do with it.Taking away stat variations that have been available to us since release should go over really well. If my best build as a mesmer forces me into a condition line even though it is a power centered build, why would i want to synergize with that?
Arena-Net I truly think that you should put your heads together and ask yourself, how does this change affect the game in a positive way?
If your logic truly is that allowing a small statistical variation in an area of the game where the stat variation is already at its most confined, please show us some metrics or evidence that this change really will improve new player experience.
You lose… about 8% of your bleed damage and 6% of your burn damage, a tiny bit of vitality, and get an increase in power, precision, and crit damage to compensate. I don’t think your build is totally destroyed. Since most of your Condition Damage comes from the traitline and signet, you’re not losing all that much, even though it looks like a lot numbers wise.
You’d probably be better served if PvP got a new 3 or 4 stat distribution with something like high power, medium precision, and low condition and critical damage.
Call me Smith.
Couldn’t you just make an adjustment to dazes/stuns directly? Like a trait that allows a class’ (probably Mesmer) dazes and stuns to blackout all non-stunbreak skills for the duration of the CC. If you can’t use it, you get no benefit from it, and then it’d effect signets.
Call me Smith.
Rank 80 is still a long term goal. Getting a Legendary is still a long term goal. Is what you want a possible infinite goal? Some people in PvE complain about the same thing after getting their Legendaries and Ascended Armor, and all I can think about is how to find a balance?
Longevity always felt like it was better served by things that bring you back to the game with even slightly different experiences and goals. For WvW and PvP this tends to be tournaments with prizes, and for PvE it’s the Living Story.
Call me Smith.
Your other Borderlands are full too?
Call me Smith.
At the end of the day, the new system will require around 1 million rank points to reach rank 80. Ostrich currently has near 4 million rank points. When the patch hits he’ll only get 8 rank up chests from the rank rebalance, while others will get up to 25.
Call me Smith.
It’s not about PvP-only players wanting persistent characters. It’s about everybody else.
Call me Smith.
The assumption was that you were going to spend the glory crafting equipment (when they said to spend the glory, they also said to fill out your lockers) and then the excess you had (or earned) would go to the new glory vendors.
The note on crafting right now are only for those that didn’t pay attention before and still have their glory and materials.
i’m still getting slivers, crystals from dailies/monthly, what am i supposed to do with those? moreover they hinted at using mats even earlier but they didn’t explicitly say they were disappearing while they made clear glory would be turned off…
with no tracks yet, no glory, useless rewards from achievements it feels a bit unrewarding to play spvp until april 15th
If you knew glory was going to be removed, what else were you using it for? If you figured that you’d still have some way of getting the armor skins later, well, you still do. Just not through glory and the existing crafting system. Wait until after the next patch for those methods.
Yes, it’s currently very unrewarding to play sPvP. All that’s left is the fun you can have by playing it anyway and the promise of a better future.
The materials still dropping is useful for those who still have glory left.
Call me Smith.
Yes. Thanks for pointing that out in perspective. Maybe it won’t be that bad after all. But I don’t see this new change as anything positive, that’s the point to remember here.
No problem. I’m just thinking now that people should look at as many different builds as possible and figure out just how affected everything is.
Call me Smith.
Correct me if I’m wrong (don’t play League), but doesn’t that game have lower cooldown skills on average even before the April Fools adjustment because they have a mana system?
Call me Smith.
As others have said, there is already too much condi spam. This will make the situation even worse.
Why not add a new rune set instead that is anti condi, and includes a way to transfer condis back to the attacker.
We technically already have run set that is anti condi and anti stun (melandru) along with lyssa runes. I’m curious as to how melandru will be adjusted in the upcoming patch.
We also have a sigil that transfers a condition to your enemy on crit (generosity).
Runes of Melandru were flashed in the last Ready Up episode. They were the same as they are, on live.
That’s unfortunate.
Call me Smith.
As others have said, there is already too much condi spam. This will make the situation even worse.
Why not add a new rune set instead that is anti condi, and includes a way to transfer condis back to the attacker.
We technically already have run set that is anti condi and anti stun (melandru) along with lyssa runes. I’m curious as to how melandru will be adjusted in the upcoming patch.
We also have a sigil that transfers a condition to your enemy on crit (generosity).
Call me Smith.
The assumption was that you were going to spend the glory crafting equipment (when they said to spend the glory, they also said to fill out your lockers) and then the excess you had (or earned) would go to the new glory vendors.
The note on crafting right now are only for those that didn’t pay attention before and still have their glory and materials.
Call me Smith.
If it’s flagged as a PvP item and in your possession, it’ll be gone and put into your account vault.
Call me Smith.
Let me be Devil’s Advocate for a moment.
The last argument I’ve seen most used is that it makes underpowered builds out of the realm of completely impossible. I don’t like the WvW argument because much of the time you don’t know exactly what your opponent is running. They could be running an experimental build as well, and if they’re not you could just be more experienced fighting their meta build than they are at fighting your experimental build.
My build is totally viable. Theorycrafter try to find viable build, and even defy the current best builds. It might probably be the best build available for staff right now. It has every signs of great potential. I have been perfecting it for months and even yet, I am not using it to its full potential. Now, by limiting theorycrafting, it seems to be pigeonholding builds.
It might be a small portion of the stats, but it’s big enough to make the difference. And now, I ask again, is its removal a small thing?
But again, a build is only declared viable when stacked up against other builds. As I said with the rest of my post, does the loss of efficiency through the amulet+jewel affect you so much more than other viable builds that your build is destroyed?
Also, could you link the build or would you rather keep it to yourself longer? I’m curious, but don’t feel pressured to post it.
Here’s the thing.
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vEUQFAWhcM6Z2ywuBd0ACRBKYCiHXAEwhFF7wMA-zUCBYjBhwAgQAJRViNdVIr4qIasabYaXKqqYBOAACwNvZAYoDdoDdoDtbezbezbezA-wIt’s currently set for WvW. I abandon Signet of Restoration for Either Renewal in SPvP, get armor of earth instead of signet of air. Valkyrie with zerker gem and Divinity runes.
Swap atunements in-between cast time or travel time of lighning attacks to proc fresh-air. Don’t forget to move while casting to use One with Air properly as it is the equivalent of out-of-combat-swiftness speed.
Keep health above threshold for 20% damage inscrease due to the self-heal mechanics. Fast cast means more heal (see fresh-air and attunement swaps). Keep pressure on target while moving away (done with One with Air). If health Threshold is kept, the damage should be overwhelming.
I tell you, it’s not easy to do at all. The build is not focused on creativity above all, it’s made to compliment every extra stats the Celestial can provide. It focuses on efficiency with style points. It will also be buffed next patch with Celestial gear update.
It looks like your build is going to depend on whatever change they do to Divinity Runes more than the jewel change. Assuming that they’re going to keep the “equal number of stats given to each attribute” theme, either you’ll lose a lot of crit damage and be better served by switching to runes that give Precision + Ferocity anyway, or you’ll lose net ~2% crit chance if they buff it instead. Signet of Restoration is also being unsplit from PvE/PvP so you may get more survivability out of that.
@ Allie:
You wanted build specifics?
There are PLENTY of builds that rely upon swapping the jewel to get that little bit of something extra that is lacking overall(be it toughness, prec, healing power, condi, vit, whatever).
On the build I’ve been running on my Ranger for the past 6+ months, I’ve been using a combo and it allows me to gain some NEEDED prec(~8%). Without it…the procs I was hoping on are already small, once you deduct 8% from them…yea the build is dead.
Could you link the build?
You players are awful people, I’ll just start there.
Allie — I’m glad you stood up for yourself under heavy assault, and I’m pretty up hauled over the state of the official forums after news of getting a massive update for free, and the amount of entitlement that goes on specifically in the PvP forums is a horrifying display of this game’s generally kind and helpful population.
Now, as for removing jewels, it’s not a massive hit to anyone’s build, but for example, in my turret death build I use a Barbarian’s Amulet and a Valkyrie jewel, which gives that ever-so-slight DPS boost that makes me an actual threat while still letting me take a hit or fifteen. I’m not going to whine over it, but I did want to show you that some builds are affected ever so slightly. I suppose gaining extra health and crit chance won’t be so bad, though, so I may need to adjust my build when the patch hits live (aside from the AR nerf).
Yeah, you’ll lose out on 50 power, but also about 2% crit damage from the Ferocity changes if you were allowed to keep the same amulet + jewel setup. You’re also losing out on crit damage from traits, again thanks to the Ferocity change.
Call me Smith.
(edited by Proven.2854)
Let me be Devil’s Advocate for a moment.
The last argument I’ve seen most used is that it makes underpowered builds out of the realm of completely impossible. I don’t like the WvW argument because much of the time you don’t know exactly what your opponent is running. They could be running an experimental build as well, and if they’re not you could just be more experienced fighting their meta build than they are at fighting your experimental build.
My build is totally viable. Theorycrafter try to find viable build, and even defy the current best builds. It might probably be the best build available for staff right now. It has every signs of great potential. I have been perfecting it for months and even yet, I am not using it to its full potential. Now, by limiting theorycrafting, it seems to be pigeonholding builds.
It might be a small portion of the stats, but it’s big enough to make the difference. And now, I ask again, is its removal a small thing?
But again, a build is only declared viable when stacked up against other builds. As I said with the rest of my post, does the loss of efficiency through the amulet+jewel affect you so much more than other viable builds that your build is destroyed?
Also, could you link the build or would you rather keep it to yourself longer? I’m curious, but don’t feel pressured to post it.
Call me Smith.
Also, you’ll be able to get a tome of knowledge from your rank up chests.
Call me Smith.
Given the cooldown, you could make do on Thief with Sleight of Hand and Scorpion Wire. Two shots at an interrupt that match pretty close to the rune cooldown. I don’t know what trait setup most P/D thieves run though. And if you don’t cover the confusion with bleeds, then the confusion is covering the bleed.
Call me Smith.
Powerr said (later deleted) The high rank players are getting way more rewarded than anyone. So that sucks.
Secondly. I need to rank up 5 times to get enough skill points needed to unlock a heal skill? Just how grindy did you make these unlocks?
I think you also get skill points from the reward tracks. You probably only need to rank up about 2 times for 25 skill points if you’re also going up reward tracks.
Call me Smith.
Let me be Devil’s Advocate for a moment.
The “prevent excess” argument feels kind of weak. It could be seen as “getting around a trade off” and balance is all about choices having trade offs and consequences.
The stats most people grabbed from the jewel in the examples provided thus far were 125 Power and 75 Precision. In the case of Precision, that tiny amount (I believe was 3-4% crit chance?) was often supplemented by runes and sigils anyway, which are getting buffed. In the case of Power it feels like something that can be lived without, but Power does scale the best in this game.
The last argument I’ve seen most used is that it makes underpowered builds out of the realm of completely impossible. I don’t like the WvW argument because much of the time you don’t know exactly what your opponent is running. They could be running an experimental build as well, and if they’re not you could just be more experienced fighting their meta build than they are at fighting your experimental build.
There’s also the minor point that while jewels bring some percentage of weaker/underpowered builds to the level where they don’t automatically fall over, it still also allows stronger/overpowered builds to be even more efficient. If the top builds lose out on that efficiency as well, does that still automatically mean that the weaker builds won’t be able to contend anymore?
Call me Smith.
(edited by Proven.2854)
Put me as a player that’s fine with the removal of jewels. It’s just not what I was attracted to PvP for. A lot of the problems we’ve had in the game have come from how weighted amulet/jewel stats were compared to everything else. Moving in the direction of more stat customization instead of less would just make it easier for more overpowered builds to exist in the future.
And yes if you’re going to use something like Valkyrie or Cavalier you’re going to have to make more of a tradeoff in traits/runes/sigils. That’s the entire point.
Call me Smith.
As Chase said, you jumped the gun Chaith. You will be receiving a rank chest for every single rank above 80 you would have, and into the future.
Call me Smith.
On the livestream I believe they announced that we’ll be receiving a transmutation charge per PvP rank (after the rank rebalance). Will we continue to do so into the future?
Call me Smith.
Hi. I am a WvW player but I am worried about the distribution of rank points. i feel that custom arenas should not offer anywhere close to team arena amounts. Yes, I understand that there is some more merit to playing Team queue, but these people are also doing ranked and in a more hardcore environment. Hotjoin is a place to understand the basics of sPvP and fun matches, but Team Arena/ Solo Queue should be the goal.
Currently Solo Queue awards more rank than Hotjoin/Custom Servers, and Team Queue awards even more than Solo. How much more are you thinking?
Call me Smith.
I think armor does gives some amount of basic toughness still… (like how heavy armor naturally has more toughness than light and medium).
Call me Smith.
1. Explained in the blog post: your chosen sigil/runes for your PvP build will overwrite your PvE stuff only in PvP and have no effect on your equipment otherwise.
2. You can have a different armor set but you’ll have to actually equip it before going into PvP matches.
3. You’ll have to pay charges, yes. You’ll get one free charge per rank (after the rebalanced rank points).
4. Completed matches.
5. I didn’t see, but I’d hope there’s an account bank somewhere there just like there’s one in WvW.
Call me Smith.
i wont be able to watch this till next week. after streamed, can s’one post what pvp build button is about?
Check today’s blog post.
Call me Smith.
I’d personally prefer TDM so that there could be one round per map (if we ever got more maps). Just keep the amount of extra lives/tickets on the low side.
Call me Smith.
They flat out lied about buffing HS active as well. Believe it when you see it.
The never said that it was coming in the next balance patch, but that they were looking into adding something to the active when they came up with a good idea for it.
Call me Smith.
Right click -> Challenge for duel. Devs can already do this with a line of code, as seen on livestream. How hard can it be to implement?
Just want to clear this one up, but the actual code from the livestream looked like “Right click → Make character hostile to every single other entity in the zone.”
And I doubt ANet would ever put dueling in without a couple of production value extras.
Call me Smith.
I think the demand will have a net upward swing. Outside of PvP Legendaries still get extra worth from their ascended level free stat changes.
Call me Smith.
It’s in Soul Reaping so you still have full access to the support traits in Blood Magic and the additional Deathshroud traits in Death Magic and other trait lines.
Call me Smith.
Was it really free? You still had to buy to play the game just like everyone else.
And coming from someone that played PvX, I never bought any transmutation stones or crystals and was fine enough.
Was it not? I mean, I can swap skins in pvp with no gems involved.
Ah, I misinterpreted the question as PvP being free rather than the PvP equipment.
I still see it as a net win because the PvP locker was an equipment locker rather than a skin locker. If you’re PvP only player then changing to a new piece of recently dropped equipment is still free so the payment mostly comes from going back to previous looks or twinking alts.
Call me Smith.
Their “cash grab” attitute is required to continue to support this game. They aren’t working for free. But as long as they do not add pay-to-win gem items, which would effectively make us all cash cows, and keep their monetization systems to cosmetic or convenient items only, then it’s fine.
Is it really fine if they monetize something that was free for 1.5 year?
Was it really free? You still had to buy to play the game just like everyone else.
And coming from someone that played PvX, I never bought any transmutation stones or crystals and was fine enough.
Call me Smith.
Does this mean we should pull all our skins out of the pvp locker and store them in bank tabs and bags so that they don’t auto convert into skins we have to pay for if we want to wear them?
Probably won’t work. Since PvP gear has no stats and they want to unify things they’ll probably all go straight into the account skin vault. There may be an argument with whatever gear you’re currently wearing in the Mists.
Call me Smith.
It’s pretty much confirmed that it will cost transmutation charges (1 crystal, or 3 stones) to change your weapon skin, armor skin, or armor dye. Both from the blog post and watching the video included in the wardrobe blog post.
This will probably include PvP. The entire idea of a lot of these “unlock” type changes is to unify the game modes. This means that when we log in on April 15th, our PvP lockers will be immediately converted into this account vault.
Don’t forget, we’ll now be carrying the same look across all game modes.
So there you go, some gem store monetization for PvP. Good thing we’ve all been saving gold now, right?
Call me Smith.
This event occurred two day’s ago:
Map: Forest of Nifhel
Que: 2 pre-made teams
Both teams ran 1 engineer: I ran an adjusted version of the oldschool nodefighther build (30/0/0/30/10) and their engineer ran 10/0/30/30/0 with pistol/shield, healing turret, thumper turret, flamethrower and elixir gun (important traits: explosive turrets trait, infused bombs, AR).Our team has adopted the following strategy, let me fight the bloody monster decap engineer because he cant full cap a node against me. Then proceed to play for the other two nodes mainly (!sometimes! quickly come and help me finish it(only if we got a kill at mid or we wont have a player disadvantage on other nodes)). There you go, the entire ~15 minutes I am left alone with the most boring 1v1 you can possibly imagine. Decap engineer ruin the game not only as a mode but for me as a player. I say screw you decap engineers and go play someting that requires more then two brain cells and a face.
I just want to say thank you for revealing a “counter” and for giving me a laugh. This is what it takes, huh?
Call me Smith.
If Kindled Zeal asks you to primarily build up Power with some Condition Damage as extra, Amplified Wrath seems to do the reverse. Radiant Retaliation seems designed specifically for builds using things like Settler’s Amulet, assuming you were also going into Honor and Virtues. I kinda wish it was a Virtue trait.
Call me Smith.
It’s being run by Mistpedia and Blu is involved. If it doesn’t get livestreamed it’ll be because a meteor landed on him.
Call me Smith.
It’s still using the regular PvP settings, but without capture points. That means kills still put points on the scoreboard, and custom arena owners can alter how many points it takes to win the map.
So yeah, they’ve pretty much just added a Team Deathmatch Map.
Call me Smith.