Guild Wars 2

I’m considering playing a Ranger starting tomorrow if the patch brings the mentioned changes to spirits and pets (I have been waiting since launch to play Ranger because I liked those two things but they weren’t very good).
Wanting to be a Ranger focused on the pet and spirits, I’m taking 30 in Nature Magic and 20 in wilderness survival for increased pet and self condition damage and because I like Warhorn and Shortbow.
Looking at builds, though, I can’t decide on 20 in Beastmastery for the bonus to pet attributes and the ability to give certain pets bleed on critical, or 20 into skirmishing for shortbow recharge and the chance for pets to do extra damage on criticals.
Also, I looked over pets and am not sure which to choose for a primarily conditions based pet. Boar, Devourer, and spider pets have the conditions on their regular skills, but several other things, like eagles, have quick f2 abilities that inlict bleed, and I don’t know which is best.
Thanks for any insight for a soon to be Ranger (hopefully).

Wow, a player actually willing to shift with the times, not feel depressed about the nerf, AND is inspiring others to press on with other possibilities?
I’ve just, like, never seen that.
That’s…. that’s like a unicorn!

Confusion has always been OP. It probably still will be after the change. Players have a choice when thy are hit with confusion- do nothing, cleanse, or take 3k+ damage every skill usage. If the player does nothing, you take him down. If they cleanse, they just burned a cooldown and you can normally confuse again pretty quickly, if they keep fighting, they go down. Regardless of what they choose, advantage goes to the Mesmer and we can do this to entire groups of players.

Yes, confusion nerf only deeply affects the builds built around confusion, but if you aren’t one of those builds, you shouldn’t really care about the nerf, as confusion is just a secondary, incidental bonus of whatever build you are actually running.
Confusion is still going to be lovely. Players will still have to make that terrible choice when they see that confusion stack go up on them. It’s just that if they choose to fight now, they won’t kill themselves outright, but they will still be much easier to take down.

So, I’m playing a Necromancer and want to get some light armor that looks kinda priestly or holy-ish once you color it gold and white. I like Feathered, I think that looks pretty good, but was looking for other options. I LOVE Rubric armor and wish I could get that in PvE.
Is there anything else that looks kinda holy-priestly-type? Bonus if it’s possible to get level 80 versions of it.

garethh.3518:

naphack.9346:

Wait for the patch. Then decide.

I think that’s what the guy was asking about.
He’s been waiting since launch.

I’m embarrassed to admit, this is basically true LOL. I love the concept behind spirit ranger, but I’d rather not get laughed at when people see me stroll up with my 3-4 spirits and pet.
Perhaps this patch will bring the fun build I think I would enjoy up into the level of viability.

By single-target attacking twice BEFORE AOEing, minions always attack for me. Thanks to Bas and Bhawb for posting that video explaining it. I level so much faster on this minion necromancer than I have anything else. I always run Signet of the Locust, Bone Fiend, and either Bone Minions or Shadow Fiend, depending on if I want to kill quickly or be more defensive. I unlocked skills in that order, too. The run speed buff from locust signet, even if you are using warhorn (I normally am), is so amazingly wonderful for leveling, I almost never take it off.

Xom.9264:

GW1 necros should give Mesmers in GW2 a try like others have said.

Ya know, I actually did and I stuck with it for a long time. I hated Mesmer; wanted to bash my head against a rock after playing it for 30 minutes or so.
Unlike other people though, I prefer the new Guild Wars 2 Necromancer… I suspect that as we speak, there is an angry mob gathering to burn me at the stake as a witch for saying so, but I do. It fixed a lot of the frustrations I had with Guild Wars 1 Necro (even though it was my main).
There are some real issues with necromancer, but they are very few, and they keep fixing a lot of them as we go along. The main problem is that other classes have unique/overpowered/specialized abilities that are just flat-out better at specific things than any other class coughTimeWarpcough. But Necromancer really represents the ideals I think GW2 is going for. We can do most things well. Not as well as other classes that have those aforementioned abilities, but well.

……….I think I just agreed with the Dev’s opinion of the profession. I can see the light of the torches reflecting off pitchforks and hear the screams of “he’s a witch! BURN him!” now.

Hello. I have often wanted to be a Ranger because I like pets, and wanted to do a build centered on Nature magic with the summoning of spirits and my faithful companion, of course.
Then people made me sad by informing me that spirits are… not so good. Doing my own research, I had to concur.
But that was a long time ago. Are spirits better now? Could I make a build around summoning spirits and also having a powerful pet?

Yea… I think I probably will do that. I just can’t play my Mesmer without wanting to bash my head against a rock every half hour or so. Thanks for the encouragement. I appreciate it.

Well, here’s the deal. Mesmers take time and effort. Level 40 is where most people say they take off, I have a guild mate who says it’s 79, LOL.
Honestly, they need a lot more TLC to get to where they need to be. For example, they are super slow, and that’s fixable because of runes and traits, but it has to be lots of runes or very specific traits. Builds normally require very specific trait, skill, armor, and weapon choices, there is literally NO room for personal style in their builds.

But if you can pull all this off, you are amazing.
You have tools no one else has- quickness for the team? Yes please. Reflection on a fairly short cooldown for EVERYTHING in that bubble? Yes, I believe I shall. Confusion so other players have to choose whether to attack and take sometimes large amounts damage or sit there and do nothing? I’ll take two, thanks.

Mesmer takes a lot of work to get just right but once you do, it is somewhat OP. And not even for the reasons that you would expect. They don’t do more damage or tank better than other classes. Instead, they kitten with the rules everyone else has to live by. Frankly, they cheat. Wheras most professions do similar things in different ways, Mesmers have abilities that are nothing like what the rest of the professions can do.
We wouldn’t have it any other way.

So, there are some interesting ideas here. I had kinda considered this but it’s more defined by some of you: unique abilities are killing class balance. What’s really ironic about this is that people say they don’t like this game because everyone can do everything. Really? Everyone can give quickness to a full team for 10 seconds straight? Everyone can completely shut down the projectiles of a boss for 6 seconds by simply pressing a button- no careful placement needed? No, of course not, but Mesmer can.

This has ALWAYS been the problem with Guild Wars 2. The unique abilities of some professions, such as portal and invisibility, have inestimable value in specific circumstances. I wish Arenanet all the luck in the world of finding a way to make an ability like Time Warp or Portal be equivalent in power and usefulness as Flesh Golem or Well of Darkness. I certainty can’t come up with a way to balance that. How can you even assess the power of these things to try and balance them? And for the love of all things Grenth, how are you going to balance them across different parts of the game? People are already screaming about confusion in PvP (which is silly, just stop attacking for a few seconds, people) but it’s almost completely useless in PvE.

I don’t have an answer. I’m not even really sure why I don’t enjoy playing my Mesmer. On paper, it looks like exactly what I want to play. But for whatever reason, Necromancer is just more fun. I’ll never feel right about maining a Necromancer until the unique abilities of certain professions are available to all (which would be a shame), nerfed to the point of near-uselessness, or other unique abilities are added to put other professions on par with the current masters.

So I have gone back and forth between wanting to play Mesmer and Necromancer, and finally know what I want… and why I can’t play it, and why I have had such a hard time deciding.
I want to like Mesmer, I really do. The class uses illusions and enchantments and I love that stuff, and am so very happy that it exists in this game because it’s so rare in any game. But… I hate playing it. The entire class frustrates me, even when I play it well. They are super slow when I am out in the field and I struggle to tag things in events, especially since the weapons I like (staff/scepter) don’t hit very quickly. It isn’t very fun, and that’s the point of a game, to have fun.
I love necromancer. I don’t like it thematically as much, but it’s super fun. I’m faster while I’m roaming about the world, I have a much more enjoyable time in events, and I love summoning the undead and having an entire build built around supporting a team with wells and marks/debuffs.

But… no one wants me. They want a Mesmer. Dungeons? Mesmer, your necromancer is a liability and needs to go home. PvP? Necromancer is OK, but Mesmer is what they really want out there on the field. Guild events? Dude, Ramiah, can you please go get your Mesmer, we are doing a bounty/whatever and need the support, man. Dungeons and guild events are the most fun thing to do, and I am consistently not able to play the profession I like because it’s just straight up not as good.
I feel like I can’t have any fun in this game. If I play the profession I enjoy, then I can’t do the parts of the game I like.

So, in the never-ending indecision between Mesmer and Necromancer, I have heard many say a Mesmer is essential for dungeons.
Why?
The only things I can think of are Time Warp, which I don’t mind, and Portal-pulling people through the dungeon, which isn’t as fun for me, especially since I don’t know the dungeons very well.
Is there any other reason that Mesmer’s are essential for dungeons?

LordByron.8369:

i saw things in this post >____<
Ele in open PvE is really good (see farming orr)
Ele is a weak imitation of a guardian in dungeon with no DPS capabilities.
In WWW is meh if not ouright bad (the higher the tier the worse ele is*)
In PvP is possibly OP but i don t play PvP that much.

Mesmer is awful in open PvE
Its quite good in dungeons and can dps
Its the best www profession imho
Its really strong in PvP

*about ele in www…without discussing it in depth..
Ill just say that when lag comes you becomes useless…..you cannot change attunement and your 1 skills are the worst in the game officially.

I don’t necessarily agree with your assessment of Elementalist, but Mesmer is pretty close, I’d reverse the last two things in they are good in WvW but utterly amazing in PvP, especially if you 1v1 or 1v2. That assessment is actually why I don’t really like playing Mesmer, to be honest. I mostly PvE and dungeons with a little WvW. Mesmer is good in dungeons but lacks a bit when it comes to the other things I like.

The only time my minions have ever taken a break is if I AOE and THEN use two single attacks. I have seen them sit out the entire fight after I accidentally opened with a non-staff AOE. I think they started attacking once, after I took a hit, but can’t remember.
I still rather like the way they function now, except for the AOE glitch. My guess is that they see you hit EVERYTHING in the area and go, “well, kitten. Which one does he want us to bite in the face? I JUST CAN’T DECIDE, FREAK OUT! Oh the fight’s over, and now he hit that risen with his scepter, all is well again.”

Bhawb.7408:

I don’t even know if a shred of what Andele said is true, but kitten is it convincing.

Bhawb.7408:

Frankly I find Necromancers think their class is worse than anyone else thinks we are, I don’t see it being very hard to convince anyone except maybe those annoying “0nly berzerk warr, p1ng gear speed run for pros onli” people.

Not only is he right, it’s always been the problem with necromancer. We aren’t necessarily bad at anything, it’s just specific specs of specific professions can do whatever we do better. Necromancer has the capability to pull off petty much anything we want with a few trait/weapon changes (that’s why I love them), but the only thing we (arguably) do better than the others is condition damage. Compare that to other professions where you get called stupid if you try to use certain skills, traits, or weapons. Necromancers are good, but Warriors/Guardians/Mesmers are better at certain specific functions
So when a necromancer gets discouraged because they see a Mesmer do crazy support better than them, they think their class is terrible. But take that Mesmer and go do an even that requires quick applications of AOE, or heck, see who wins a footrace to get to the event in the first place. You start to realize your class isn’t so bad after all.

I’m Ramiah, and I approve of this post.
Buuuuuut, Rangers already have that and I don’t think there should be two classes with a controllable pet/s. I’d actually be just fine the way things are now (hit twice and away they go), if they were just a little bit tougher to compensate for the lag in attacking.
However, it doesn’t fix the Mesmer clone problem (the bane of many a pet user, which is silly, no single class should be able to shut down specs that are spread across different professions). My suggestion would be that the AI stays as it is but always works that way, ex, minions always attack whatever you single-target hit twice, including that real Mesmer over there.

I struggled with the same exact question and finally settled on… well probably necro, I’m still bouncing between Necromancer and Mesmer.

Elementalist is amazing, but very complicated. No other profession has such versatility, because that’s what Elementalist were created to be: versatile. An elementalist can heal, damage, buff and debuff all with the same build, and can flow between those things rather seamlessly. However, you have to remember and know how to implement all of those things to play it well so it’s very hectic.

Mesmer is amazing, if your build is meant for the situation you find yourself in. They have the tools to be great supporters and are amazing PvPers. The drawback is that they don’t quite have the versatility once a build is set. For example, if you are a staff Mesmer designed for PvP and dungeons, you generally don’t deal damage fast enough to do well in AOE-centric events. They also normally require very exacting and specific trait placement and armor/weapon sets. If you have these things, though, they are unstoppable, and are able to bring the situation under control if they are speced to deal with that aspect of the game.

Necromancer is rather balanced and solid. They have many functional builds that are good even with slight tweaks and personal touches. They are built to last and are fairly aggressive. Their abilities are almost always useful in any part of the game, and with slight changes to an already-existing trait points spread, they can change their function, even in the middle of dungeons. They are considered weaker by most, though, largely because nothing about the necromancer is terribly impressive (aside from perhaps survivability) but everything they can do is functional, as opposed to other classes who have skills/traits that no one ever uses.

I actually experimented with the iBerzerker when I was trying to find a Mesmer build I liked. There were several times it hit once or spun through the enemy and no damage at all was applied. When a skill does literally nothing except spawn a neat-looking ghost-thing that dances with the enemy (that’s what he must have been doing since he never actually hit on a few of his pirouettes), that’s obviously a broken skill.

Aberrant.6749:

Reasonable things…

1. iZerker fix
2. Vuln removed from staff auto attack and added to chaos storm & poison removed from chaos storm and added to staff auto attack.
3. Mantra traits moved to allow for more build diversity.
4. Clone offhand graphics fix

5. Main hand pistol (Not as reasonable as the rest… but dear god this would give me happy feet)

Those first two would make my day. I would literally stop playing anything else and run Mesmer for hours on end until I just got totally sick of it… which may never happen if these changes came through. As it stands, I just can’t keep going with the class since a few things here and there just feel “off.”

I’d actually be interested in seeing a skill-by-skill comparison between a blood necromancer and a water elementalist. I may do that myself later on. Actually, I’d be interested in seeing a comparison of any elemental spec and the comparable necromancer spec. I’m scaring myself a little because I love necromancer but man if you look at all the stuff Elementalist can do, well I can’t imagine a reason to keep the necromancer unless you just wanna be tougher.

Andele.1306:

im still better than you in every way except in graphical fidelity and being able to play as a charr charr.

So… even you admit I am better than you :P

Interesting… I arranged this meeting on an open field with no corpses nearby. You had a good, long trek to get out here too so degen is not nice for you. Good luck with that. Oh did I mention I actually have more skills than you? I run faster too, in case you manage to find some little squirrel corpse to exploit or something. I don’t have to run much faster than you, just enough to stay away till your minions fall over re-dead. Mine… well, mine don’t do that.
And what is that you are wearing, spikes on pleather spandex? Oh hunneh, you need a lot more help than what I can give you in this one meeting. Come with me, let’s start with the makeover and go from there. Yes, yes, the world loves me and hates you, but lets start with the clothes and hideous tattoos you are wearing and then work our way up to manipulation.

I totally get where you are coming from about necromancer being versatile, and you are right, all classes are versatile, but not in the same fight. Each class must make choices about what they want to do, except the elementalist. In their builds, Elementalists choose what they want to be best at. Just because you are water specced doesn’t mean you can’t lay down great damage with fire, or crowd control with Earth. I’m not talking versatile because classes have many different builds, I’m talking versatile because they have access to many different things in the same build. No one in the game (with the distant possibility of Engineer, but even they are not on the same level as Elementalist) has the versatility at their fingertips that Elementalist does. That’s the concept of the class, after all, elemental attunements.
And using the justification that they brought a necromancer is EXACTLY like saying they brought a knife-wielder to a gunfight. Just because that dude has a knife and he’s on their side, doesn’t mean the guy with the machine gun is any less effective. But, which would most people rather have?

Can you go Sceptre/dagger if you don’t have anything in curses? I working towards a 20/0/30/20/0 so it’s mostly power, and not much condition damage. Would Sceptre/dagger still be the way to go or should I stick with Axe/Focus?

I actually really REALLY like the options I have as a necro. When playing my human, I am a noble, suave, sophisticated, and full of dark power. The waistcoats and “frilly” stuff serve to mark my noble birth AND to recognize that it is controlled, unemotional power that I wield.
And the looks of minions? I don’t make them to be nice-looking, I make them to be functional. Who has the time to find a complete corpse with a weapon? I’d rather just pull whatever parts my magic can find in the area. Rats are perfect because I want them to sneakily run to an enemy and explode, not run into the sword of an enemy and die. Devourer corpses are perfect for range, a skeletal archer would be hard to find the material for and then I’d have to supply him with a bow and arrows. No think you, the tail-darts do nicely.
And excuse me, lower classes, perhaps you do not understand what lying and subterfuge are. Oh sure, I help my friends, or the organizations that is trying to save the world I happen to live upon, but my intentions are far from altruistic. By infiltrating the organizations and playing along, I learn all I need to avoid them or take the down AND I get pawns to help me clear the current threat and make way for my inevitable rule. Never use more than one stone to kill two birds if you can help it.

And then there’s my charr. Who loves necromantic magic for the holy abilities it gives him to heal and protect his friends. He wears the feathered get-up colored gold and white. Wells of healing and protection support his team while he chills and cripples the ones who try and run from justice.

……. yea, I like to play both sides…….

I actually have to say that Elementalist is in an amazing place right now. While it’s true that Elementalists don’t have the toughness of Necromancers in certain specs, that’s their only weakness. Frankly, they just bring more to a group, with any weapon, than a necromancer does. That can be said for any class though, Elementalist is meant to be able to switch and change due to the situation.
And while it’s true that they can’t do everything all at once, they can normally switch around to deal with it all one right after another. Team taking damage? Water attunement, healing rain. Now that their Health is stable, switch to Earth to do some crowd control or Air to help the team get out of there. You tried to run and they caught you? Switch to Earth, crowd control/condition, and then fire to try and finish some of them. Still aren’t dead and now your team is hurting? Back to water and start the process again. It’s fluid, it’s always useful, and it handles whatever is gettin’ your team down.
Necromancer brings more of a personal, solid feel. We can’t handle all the situations Elementalists can, and we have some decent amounts of set-up time. We either have to have summoned minions or applied conditions before the epidemic, or need time to build up that 25 stacks of vulnerability, or whatever. We aren’t always useful regardless of spec in every situation, but we do survive longer to set up the things we need to.
Elementalist is fluid and quick and always useful. Necromancer is solidly built and useful in certain situations and given a little time.

The problem has never been Necromancers. The problem has always been a lack of cohesion in certain professions and a serious amount of cohesion in others. What do elementalists bring BEFORE utilities? Healing, and Damage, some conditions, and some great boons. Plus whatever utilities they have. Lots of fluidity, lots of situations that can be handled by a single character.
In the end, versatility wins. It always does. If that had been a full team of Elementalists, then fun would be had by them. Lots of damage? Water attunement, maybe some Earth, thank you muchly. Need to take down siege stuff AND the opponents around it, Fire, enjoy. They have an answer to everything, because that’s what elementalists DO. It’s versatility. In a game where builds that force you to focus on a specific function, the one class that gets to evade that restriction will ALWAYS win. Elementalist was a really fun idea but doesn’t work very well in this game.

smeen.4237:

I’m a Mesmer on my main PC and I can tell you that mesmers level faster than necros. But if you want a scholar that can deal good melee damage go ele.

Are you serious? I could never get into my Mesmer BECAUSE he levels so very, very slowly. Necromancer has Locust Signet for 25% movement speed so I was zipping from one heart/event to another, and had warhorn for swiftness when I wanted. Mesmer had to make do with temporal curtain every 25 seconds for swiftness.
Additionally, there was a goodly amount of set-up time each fight, getting up clones and then shattering and hoping some jerk didn’t kill the enemy before my illusions got to him.
Necromancer was far more fun. More set-up before battles, but I could do that on the way and things went down way WAY faster as a necromancer with the stacking vulnerability and direct damage.
What spec were you using to level so fast as a Mesmer?

Ironically, I was originally using Staff + Sceptre/(various). I loved it. The only problem I really had was events. I’m not talking about Orr, I have a guardian who is (sadly) permanently on farming duty out there. What would often happen is that the orbs I shoot could not get to the mobs fast enough. Or perhaps, even with power/condition damage, I could not get ENOUGH of them there fast enough to have it count as tagged.
Greatsword is IMMEDIATE. You hit that button from within 1200, you deal damage, and a goodly amount of it, too. And yes, Chaos storm is quite a long cool down for AOE. You can trait the iBerzerker down to 12 seconds cooldown compared to Chaos Storm where even traited the best you can do is 28 seconds. Quite the difference between the two.
If iBerzerker still is decent for AOE, I’ll be okay with that. I have Sceptre/Pistol for big bosses and the iDefender + Phantasm traits in a group anyway. Just a little sad that the Phantasm I like most in the build is so broken it sometimes doesn’t even hit the enemy.

Actually I will look in to if my program allows me to put in a mouse click+ mouse movement- that might work. I have a 360 controller but am not sure I have the hardware that lets me use it on my computer.

So, I have been bouncing back and forth between Necromancer and Mesmer for a while now. The Staff Mesmer I had been experimenting with was just too slow to hit in events and lacked the AOE I wanted to tag trash mobs. So, I experimented in the mists.
I tried a Greatsword+Sceptre/Pistol Phantasm build and loved it. I could stay at range, it had the AOE potential I was looking for in the Greatsword, and the Pistol was good for those giant boss event enemies. In a team, I could have everyone take half damage with Phantasmal Defender, and also get Regen from all of my Phantasms. I had finally found it! THE build that I loved and that would make my Mesmer my main.
However, I had heard rumors about Phantasmal Berzerker, that it was broken. To experiment, I threw it on a training golem, after reading the tooltip saying it hit 4 times.
It hit once.
I waited patiently. “Perhaps it’s just that first swing that only hits once,” I said to myself. Then, it swung again, passing right through the golem.
And dealt no damage.
Not to be discouraged, I went out into the world and tried it on an enemy. It swung- and hit twice. I waited, then it hit once, and then did no damage at all.
So my PHANTASM Build, which was going to really focus on the Greatsword for the quick and AOE tagging of enemies in events, has a broken PHANTASMAL Berzerker.
I wanted to take an axe to my computer.
Realizing that would not change the situation, I have come here. Any suggestions on something that I could use instead? Maybe Warden? They don’t chase the enemy like that Berzerker does, but perhaps after they have been grouped it would work?
I could switch the off-hand to sword and then do Sword/Focus + Sceptre/Sword. That would take away my range for one weapon set, which defeats the purpose of why I was so happy with the build, but well… what else am I gonna do?

I’m trying to set up a controller to use with the game, and have most things set, except the ability to look around while playing. It works fine for looking right/left, because I can turn the character, but I can’t find a way to look up/down. Is there a keyboard command to do so somewhere in the options? If so, where?

Okay, thanks for the advice. I was only using Transfusion when I was going support because it didn’t occur to me that minions would get healed when there weren’t others around. I was still using Life Transfer for AOE damage and whatnot even with minions, but that would add a heal for them instead of overkill on the life gain for me only.

I was leaning toward the 30 in Death Magic because I like Death Nova so I still get something out of the minions if they die, and it lets me take staff mastery sometimes for AOE tagging when minions are out and I’m doing events, etc.. I don’t like getting the monster’s attention, which I why was wary of pumping Toughness, but if I put Vitality Runes on my armor that will still keep it lower than someone who is built for it.

Axe Training wasn’t really necessary to me anyway, I use axe more for stacking vulnerability to add some damage from my team/minions. All I really lose is a 3sec faster AOE cripple recharge.

So, my necromancer is really fun, but I’m struggling with where to put those last 10 points. I run Minions mostly, with support when I want to switch.
Currently I have 20/0/20/20/0, which gives me most of the things to run both builds.
Minions have everything but Death Nova/Necromantic Corruption and Fetid consumption.
Having this build also allows me to switch and use Wells/Marks when I want to support, since I have access to Staff mastery and then Spiteful Marks and Greater Marks, and then also have and Ritual Mastery for wells.

What I am trying to do is run a build where I can switch on the fly if I know minions don’t work on an upcoming boss or (more likely) a group complains that minions are terrible for whatever.
Spite would give me Axe Training to compliment my Focus during weapon swap for a bit of extra damage there.
Death Magic seems the logical choice as I could get Death Nova (or Necromantic corruption) with minions and Ritual of Protection for wells. I hear those aren’t very good traits, though.
Blood Magic 10 gives me Fetid consumption with minions, to draw conditions and support occasionally WITH the minions, and then also gives me Vampiric Rituals to lifedrain with wells, which is nice to help protect me when I run in to cast wells, since I don’t have Curses 20 to cast them at range.

Also, Bas had a post a while back that talked specifically about Minion Builds, but I can’t seem to find it. It was very concise, talking about why you should go power with minions, etc. Was hoping it would provide insight if I could find it.

Good to know. At least I will be decent in most of the things I do.

That… Is… Hilarious/awesome. I wonder if I can make my Charr Necromancer look like that…

I disagree that we have the best damage at range, there’s a reason there are so many elementalists, etc. Mesmers are also not easy to play. Whoever told you that dun lied to you. I have farm more difficulty playing my Mesmer than my… well anything else, really.
That being said, I have to admit, I know the nerf is coming, but it will NEVER be balanced until they split skills into PvE and PvP. A single Mesmer can do so very VERY much in PvP that it’s rather ridiculous.
You bring up a fantastic point about thief also being common. It’s practically impossible to balance the capabilities that mesmers/thieves have because those powers are wholly unique. If something is doing too much damage, you can reduce it, if something is not healing for enough you can boost it, but how do you measure the value of transporting 20 people past a wall or turning everyone on your side invisible?

You can’t really measure the value of these things with numbers. I have NO idea how to balance something like that, especially considering it’s uselessness in PvE. Frankly, I wish Arenanet the best of luck in finding a way to keep things even.

So, I confess, I only really like necromancer for the minions, and wells when I want to support.
So, tell me what parts of the game can I NOT do well with minions. I hear they do pretty well in dungeons now, although Fractals (which I honestly am not all that interested in) are not that great (maybe better now than agony resistance).
What else will I be bad at with minions?

lettucemode.3789:

On the skill level, necros actually have a good bit of uniqueness:
- Marks (which you said you liked)
- The majority of our ranged damage isn’t projectile-based, meaning it can’t be reflected or absorbed (see Axe, Scepter, marks, focus 5, dagger 5, warhorn 4)
- Best class at condition management and best boon ripper. Corrupt Boon, Epidemic, Plague Signet, staff 4, dagger 4, focus 5
- If other classes want a gap-closer or interrupt, they have to trait for it or take certain weapons. Necros get them for free in every build.

I had totally forgotten about these unique aspects. I think the main complaint is that the capabilities of a necromancer are similar to other classes. Additionally, necromancers don’t bring anything unique to a team.
The truth about Guild Wars 2 is that NONE of the classes bring any major aspect that can’t be filled by another class. This is the first major game in the history of MMOs to do this. Most see this as a triumph in design because certain aspects of the game, particularly team roles, are no longer limited to specific classes. That’s fantastic, because it allows for everyone to experience any part of the game.
Not everyone likes that though. As was suggested above, some may prefer to be a class that has a specific role, that may be essential to a certain part of the game. This just isn’t that game. The unique and interesting design of Necromancers, Mesmers, and (arguably to convert to guardians) monks WAS sacrificed for this.
What has essentially happened is a shift in WHERE uniqueness is found for classes. It used to be in class capability. Now it is in themetics and execution. For example, I love summoning. Almost all classes can summon, but I wanted a small army (of undead, since I like undead) to travel with me and stick around until the poor things were finally defeated in battle. Necromancer is the ONLY class that lets me do that. Guardians have time limits, Mesmers need an enemy, etc.
I have no problems losing unique capability because that isn’t what makes a game fun for me. Themetics and the possibility to change my role in the game whenever I want is what is fun for me. Others may not agree.

CHIPS.6018

You missed the point on why we GW1 veteran necros are disappointed with GW2 necro: The GW2 necro is just like anyone else.

GW2 minions aren’t necro minions anymore. They are just summons. GW2 wells aren’t necro wells anymore. They are just nukes. A lot of other classes also have nukes. Other than numbers and effects there is absolutely nothing different between wells and, let’s say, Firestorm and other nukes.
Condition spread is just another method to deal damage or prevent damage. There is nothing really unique about that.

I can definately respect this. I totally agree that the new necromancer isn’t much like the old one. To address if they are still necros, that’s a good assessment, but only in regard to Guild Wars necromancers. Fantasy Necromancy is an idea of themetics, not function, generally one who animated the dead, etc.
An argument could be made that by all means, they should be Guild Wars necros since this is, after all, Guild Wars. However, I feel that each new game should take ideas and concepts of the old one and re-invent it. Mesmers didn’t used to summon clones… like at all. Now they do, and while it keeps in the spirit of the original profession- illusions and misdirection- it functions nothing like it.
I can definately support the desire to continue playing what you love in a new, updated way, but that playstyle already exists in a game called Guild Wars. To simply transfer that to a game with better graphics and updated abilities seems… unecessary. I’m not sure I’d see a reason to play Guild Wars 2 if it was so similar to Guild Wars 1. If I were you, I wouldn’t be playing this game, I’d play the original.
There is a reason games like Everquest continue to maintain subscribers even though there is an Everquest 2.
Additionally, the Necromancer does still maintains it’s individuality, but it is more subtle. Many classes summon but no other class has summons that stay until killed and have secondary abilities that have such a wide variety of effects. No one else can take the conditions from a single enemy and have them hit others- even conditions they didn’t create. The identity is very different from Guild Wars 1, and it’s true that certain aspects of the game are shared across many professions, but the way those aspects are used is very different.

Ya know what scares me? I actually wish it wouldn’t go away after the end of the month. I like it that much. I want at least the option to keep it.

Excellent, thank you for the responses. I was leaning toward Mesmer or Necromancer, but this confirms it. The summons from the other professions seem kinda like a novelty, although I did enjoy Guardian, the temporary nature and long recharges of the pets were not very fun. Necromancer pets are not temporary and Mesmer pets are short recharge. I like Rangers having a pet (I don’t necessarily need to summon, just have a pet), but I’d want to focus on spirits so I could summon, too, which I hear is not so good.
I think I will go Mesmer. If they are more welcome in parties and can summon, that is where I will focus. I’ll continue to play the necromancer I experiemented with, as well. Hopefully one of them will fit what I’m looking for.

Sometimes, you wanna have a little fun with posts, while still getting to the heart of a matter. Why not ask a question in a way that is fun to read?
As far as what I expect of summons- I expect them to be useful most of the time, but function is actually somewhat less important to me. If they buff, but help me in both soloing and dungeons, then that’s just as satisfying to me as if they DPSed.

Are those minion secondary abilities really very effective, though? If they are, holy cow it’s even better than I thought. I just didn’t think, for example, that a short blind on a 20 sec cooldown that has a slight charge up after I push the button was all that great. I will be happy to be proven wrong, though.
And as far as Mesmer being more versatile, I actually think that may be my problem. I don’t really get to do what I want on my Mesmer. People expect certain things all the time and, according to them, by golly if I’m not running the build they expect or playing the way they want, I have no business being on their team. I like being a staff conditions/shatter mesmer. I don’t mind porting, etc, but for the love of all that is good, let me play the build I like and stop demanding I have certain weapons with me to satisfy whatever you think I should have.
As a necromancer, I get to decide: would I like to have a swarm of undead, or perhaps circles of pain and blinding/cleansing/stripping goodness? Works in dungeons OR roaming OR PvP? Fantastic.

I am really surprised to hear all of this, truth be told.
I think it comes down to this: When I play a game, I want to play in a way I have the most fun. I find minions to be fun. I find Debuffing and supporting a team to be fun. In Guild Wars 1, sometimes I couldn’t do what I wanted because I needed corpses or fleshy enemies or high armor enemies.
So, I had to play a build I didn’t want to- I ran the Spiteful Spirit build or some other thing. Basically, I played something that was NOT fun in order to get back to a place I could start having fun again.
I love LOVE the new necromancer. I can summon minions whenever I want. Are there issues that need fixing? Sure. But almost all aspects of the game can be played the way that is most fun for me. Plus, my friends see me coming from a mile away with my small army of undead- no corpses necessary. And wells, oh my goodness, wells. Something I can place wherever I want that does damage and blinding or condition/boon removal so I can DPS and support my team at the same time? Yes please.
Thank you Arenanet, for finally giving me a game where I can play the classes I like in a way I enjoy all the time.

I, like you, almost always play the summoner classes, particularly if they can support as well. In Guild Wars 1, I also gravitated more toward Ritualist, but played Necromancer and also a Mesmer (after the big changes). I miss the Ritualist more than I can express, primarily for aesthetic reasons, but also because of versatility. And therein is the reason I went Ritualist over Necromancer.

The main reason I didn’t main necromancer? Conditional abilities. Sure, minion master was tons of fun, but you needed corpses. Blood magic and curses were great… when they worked. There were far FAR too many skills that just flat-out didn’t work unless a special condition was fulfilled. Needing fleshy enemies for certain abilities like disease, and corpses for minions, and even some curses only worked on certain enemies (weaken armor just lowered armor to 60, which was the same rank every caster had, so it was useless on them).

To a certain extent, I hear what you are saying and agree. Blood magic… well, while you can trait to drain life with other abilities, you can’t really build around it effectively (although the latest patch seems to suggest they are working on it). Curses is very watered down as well, but that’s because it doesn’t exist in Guild Wars anymore. There is no build that focuses on debuffing, or buffing for that matter. No matter what you do in the game, even traited to primarily heal or debuff, or whatever, that is NEVER the only thing you do. Minion masters are a fantastic example, as you said, “Summoning wasn’t just side gig, it was your job.” In GW2 You can fill your entire bar with minions, but those weapon slots can’t summon. You WILL be doing something other than just focusing on minions. I like this aspect.

When it comes to soul reaping, I have to say, it actually hurts your case more than helps it. It was passive, basic, and utterly powerful to all necromancers everywhere. I actually have a friend that ran a build as a necromancer/elementalist and debuffed with a curse or two, and then nuked things to death and never ran out of energy. I like that the new soul reaping line isn’t taken by all necromancers. What’s the point of different trait lines if everyone takes the same one for every build?

I’m the guy that likes to specialize. My motto is normally “whatever you do, be the best at it.” But that playstyle doesn’t exist anymore in Guild Wars; you can’t specialize so completely that you don’t have other options at the same time.
This may not be the game for certain playstyles anymore, but it’s something I have really enjoyed, in spite of myself.

TL;DR: having only a single job that didn’t always work was a problem for the old Guild Wars necromancer. That problem doesn’t exist anymore and a playstyle of specializing in only doing cetain thing is gone. I find it to be more fun that way.

So, I haven’t really played in a long time… like, months.
Having played around before, though, and getting a Guardian to 80, I know what I like. Perhaps you can help me choose a class now that I know that.
I like summoning things and having pets.
I like going interesting places and meeting interesting people. I.E. I like being um… not slow across the map.
I like being able to effectively support a team, either by healing/buffing them, or by doing mean things to the bad guys that makes it hard for them to hurt ME… oh and my team too… I guess.
I like candlelight dinners and long, moonlit walks on the beach.
I like not having such a complex playstyle that I want to curl into a ball and weep quietly (I’m looking at you elementalists, with your 20 someodd skills I have to rotate constantly. Go away, I no like you).
I like belonging to a guild because they actually WANT my profession and don’t just take pity on the poor loser that gets picked last.
I like summoning things (that really can’t be overstated).
I like people who can help me make decisions.
Thank you for your assistance.

So, frankly, my Mesmer is driving me crazy. I always feel like I am missing a trait I need for my build, no matter what I do. The general concensus is that I’m not good at helping out the team except for my ability to portal them through dungeons. I am a monster in PvP (which I don’t enjoy all that much), but I suffer for it in PvE (which I like more) to “balance” my profession. And if I have to run from one end of a zone to the other, I am just gonna go ahead and dig myself a grave and fall into it rather than slowly meander across at my slow running speed.
Of course, then I rose again as a Necromancer, and am enjoying it nicely. You guys are fast across the map, your weapons are totally fun, and your builds are fully-formed. I am only sad that your summons are utilities because I really like summons, but also want to do more than DPS.
So, did any of you come from other professions and decide to stick with Necromancer after you tried it? Why did you stay and what did you like about it over your previous profession?

I would say that every class can do PvE but not every class can do every aspect of PvE well. For example, Mesmers lack a certain amount of immediate AOE damage potential. They aren’t the best at farming Orr, etc. Guardian does a lot better, because they have all the tools necessary to excel in any aspect of PvE.
It’s actually my greatest frustration with the game at present. I like Mesmer both because it’s fun to play and because of themetics, but want a character that can do anything in the game, and Mesmer really isn’t it. Thief is similar.
On a side note, the tools are there for any class to perform any role in any aspect of PvE, it’s just they aren’t as well-developed in certain classes as they are in others.