Guild Wars 2

Hannelore.8153:

“HoT is hard enough, no need to make the rest of the game like that”

I’m tired of this outlook, players who have a hard time with content expect it to be made easy for them jsut so they can continue playing the game and accomplish everything you can do in it, maps, events, masteries, full rewards etc.

By that notion, you have 25 maps from Central Tyria to go auto-hit mobs in. Having 2/3rds of the game tailored to you isn’t good enough ?

First of all, HoT is not hard, HoT has ~mechanics~. All of those things you have having trouble with like, avoiding AoE circles, needing to defend against and CC enemies, do jumping puzzles and overall luse strategy and tactics ?

That’s called ~gameplay~, and its what separates a high-budget MMO from from one of those games you pick off Steam for $1-10 or even F2P.

This game has always been very casual, let the players who want something else out of it have something else out of it for a change without having to have everything nerfed, dumbed down, simplified, face-rolling easy.

Sorry, but this is one of, if not the easiest MMOs in existence. I know its not fair to compare but its like a bunch of kids who are having huge bowls of ice cream in front of them getting upset that someone else wants some cake too.

And its not about raid builds, I play mostly non-meta characters, lots of support builds, even a few tank builds, and PvE is just "kitten , kitten , kitten ". Slowly over the years I’ve lost the ability to find myself immersed in any combat in the game even on badly played characters because its just “hit one until the bar reaches zero”. The only content left that requires more is fractals and raids.

I find it ironic that I am one of the most casual players in GW2—lots of alts, not a single meta build, all characters in mostly exotics, heavy support focus, yet people still somehow find the time to argue with me that the game is difficult because the don’t want to crawl out of bed and drink some coffee to play it.

I could understand if you’re disabled (as I am), but otherwise.. meh.

Tom Cruise moment..
You can be my wingman anytime

Feothyr.6072:

Rhanoa.3960:

You didn’t have to be lvl 80 for champion, veteran and elite to be challenging.
The video is a perfect example of how EPIC the event was.

That’s exactly my point. The event was challenging and “epic”, because the players didn’t have all their skills, any of the equipment we have today or any of the experience. All you have to do to recreate that experience is create a new character, get some crappy gear and enjoy the event.

Rhanoa.3960:

You obviously missed Beta and release in 2012.

Nope. Been playing Guild Wars since ’07. Sorry.

Have you even gone back at level 5? It’s not the same, it total softcore, cuddlecore, lookatmeI’madorablecore.

UPDATE
Nerfed even worst than before.

*Killed at lvl 2 in just a few seconds.
*With 2 skills
*Undergeared.
This is far less than what we had.

Sepheiron.4918:

As someone who just recently returned to GW2 (after 3-4 years) I might be able to give you the view of a newbie:

Playing HoT for the 1st time felt extremely frustrating sometimes (Note: I played as a warrior). Unfair mob numbers and combinations often gave me a headache, especially in the Personal Story (e.g. last mission where you gotta fight vs Canach, Eir and that other Sylvari gal and the mission where you gotta save Logan and that Asura). Sometimes I had to revive multiple times in a row just to do a little bit damage each time. The AI of your companions is also pretty bad, sometimes they decide to revive you, other times they completely ignore you. Also the maps in HoT are very confusing (due to many different planes) but that’s another story.

I don’t want to run brain-afk through the personal story but I do want to run over the maps without having to worry to die every moment even though I’m using the streets (i.e. no more mushroom mobs, thank you!).

It’s not the same game from 3-4yrs ago.
If you need help please don’t hesitate to hit me up. Especially with your personal story.

Feothyr.6072:

Yargesh.4965:

There is only one spot on one map where that is possible and after you get to and do the golem HP you never ever have to go anywhere near there again.

Sorry, forgot to put up my sarcasm sign.

Rhanoa.3960:

Flame Legion Shaman use to be hard and fun!

Well, that’s not a fair comparison.

• He’s not level 80.
• He hasn’t unlocked all of his skills. Not to mention traits.
• His equipment is probably a bunch of greens and blues.
• The footage is most likely from a press demo pre-release. (Noticed the compass?)

You didn’t have to be lvl 80 for champion, veteran and elite to be challenging.
The video is a perfect example of how EPIC the event was.
You obviously missed Beta and release in 2012.

Draco.9480:

Rhanoa.3960:

Draco.9480:

Feothyr.6072:

Story and open world is endgame content. Don’t you know anything about Guild Wars 2?

No, it’s not end game. it’s a start for expansion so ya can advance and access more content. Don’t be ridiculous. No one is going to repeat the same story over and over.
However, people do enjoy do raids multiple times.

No Raids + No DPS Meters = No Forced Meta Builds

No Raids = people will ragequit and anet will lose their sustainers. good logic man.
No one is forcing ya to play raids nor force ya to use meta. Yer choice to leech but not giving endgame content is a failure for an expansion.

The game did great before Raids! Numbers don’t lie!
Please review Attachment

TexZero.7910:

Feothyr.6072:

Jeez … if you want raid difficulty mobs, go play raids. This is open world. Open world mobs aren’t supposed to be hard.

There was a point in time where champion, veteran and elite meant something from mobs.

Now it just means more stats, more HP and potentially 3-6 more levels than a player can have.

I’d be nice of them to make challenging group fights in the open world that make use of these things. The bounties are a step in the right direction, but also have their own issues.

You’re SPOT ON!

For them everything is measured after 2013 as the content kept getting nerfed.
Folks complain how HOT is too difficult, yet many of them were never around prior to 2013.

Flame Legion Shaman use to be hard and fun!

It’s rather funny seeing some of these comments.

*If it’s hard, it’s boring and not fun.
*If it’s easy, it’s boring and not fun.

There obviously needs to be a balance, but it doesn’t end there.
Then you have the other features in game.

I swearing listen to some of these comments is like listening to some high maintenance girl/boy friend.

More power to ANET on their long term relationship that ends up in divorce after each content release.

Scora.5246:

Hi all, im a returning player and has just bought heart of thorns, im also planning on buying the upcomming expansion. Im curious however if i should spend my heropoints on unlocking the HoT elite class or if im better of waiting and save them for the new elite specialization in the upcomming expansion as i,ve noticed they seem to require tons of points to level up.

Thanks

It doesn’t take long to unlock Elites. Like someone mention join an HP train.
If you’d like look me up and I will tag along with you.

Draco.9480:

Feothyr.6072:

Story and open world is endgame content. Don’t you know anything about Guild Wars 2?

No, it’s not end game. it’s a start for expansion so ya can advance and access more content. Don’t be ridiculous. No one is going to repeat the same story over and over.
However, people do enjoy do raids multiple times.

No Raids + No DPS Meters = No Forced Meta Builds

Dashingsteel.3410:

How the hell is Anet supposed to remember the casuals when nobody really knows what casual actually means?

Again, this thread is useless because everyone seems to have a different meaning assigned to the word casual.

Op….. Please provide specific points as to what the developers need to remember!!!

Linear and easy game play.

STIHL.2489:

Wolfheart.7483:

My thoughts regarding this entire topic aside, your statement here is a big problem with people on the forums. You assume you represent the standard casual player and other casual players are the exception to your rule. You cite the replies in this thread as evidence of that.

Often enough, people will come posing as casuals or be blatant sock puppet accounts,
but they always give away little clues of what they really are, often involving lines like “Lean to play” or “Casuals ruined the game”

It’s not so much that I may or may not be an average casual.. it’s more about how far removed from being casual my critics are.

When I think of Casual it’s always been about occasional, temporary, & part time. When I can squeeze it into my busy life. This is me

But Casual Player/Gamer evolved into Simplicity, less demanding of time and learning skills. This is not me

So, yes you can say I am not a Casual I guess.

With only 2475 hours 44 minutes over the past 1815 days.
-9 level 80’s
-Hate Crafting
-No Legendaries
-1 World Completion
-Semi- Occasional LW
-Semi- Occasional Fractals
-Occasional Pvp
-WvW before large guild break up Pre-HOT
-Often- World Events in HOT
-No Raids(As much I enjoy nailing down the game Mechanics & Professions I Hate forced Meta Builds)IMO get rid of Boss timers it doesn’t have to be a race that’s just me.

Other than that I am a total Underachiever!

STIHL.2489:

Rhanoa.3960:

STIHL.2489:

Rhanoa.3960:

HOT didn’t fail, the Players DID!

A player is under no obligation to play or support game they don’t find fun. Leaving is always a viable and proper response to any game that not your liking.

When a company makes a game, the people that don’t find it fun either leave or stay around and whine that the game needs to change.

So lets get this clear, if players left the game.. then HoT failed to be fun to them.

Without doubt you’re not obligated. However, as a customer your experience overall is subjective as you and I do not experience it the same way. Do they both matter? Of course.

Though, claiming to represent the voices of all casual players is false and misleading.

Your problem is with HOT not being casual enough for you. My problem is which of the 9 Professions and Builds to use with so many available options.

Well, I never said ALL. There are always those the exceptions, but.. from what this topic has wrought, my views align with a substantial portion of the casual community. If you want to be some lone voice, by all means, go ahead, I won’t stop you, and I’ll gladly not speak up for you.

Feel better?

We will all feel better when POF is out then you realize that this is as casual as the game gets for you. There are still a handful of MMOs for you to try maybe it will help you find what you are looking for.

Here are a list of games for you to check out.
Final Fantasy XI..
Elder Scrolls On..
Black Desert Onl..
Rift
AD2460
Warframe
Path of Exile
Darkfall: Unholy..
WildStar
SMITE
Neverwinter
TERA
Blade & Soul
EVE Online
Elite: Dangerous
EverQuest II
Lord of the Ring..
Guild Wars
Final Fantasy XI
Dark Age of Came..
Guild Wars Facti..
Ryzom
Perpetuum
Aika
Atlantica Online
Destiny
Fallen Earth
PlanetSide 2
Guild Wars Night..
Dungeons & Drago..
Ultima Online
EverQuest
Lineage 2
Wizard101

STIHL.2489:

Rhanoa.3960:

HOT didn’t fail, the Players DID!

A player is under no obligation to play or support game they don’t find fun. Leaving is always a viable and proper response to any game that not your liking.

When a company makes a game, the people that don’t find it fun either leave or stay around and whine that the game needs to change.

So lets get this clear, if players left the game.. then HoT failed to be fun to them.

Without doubt you’re not obligated. However, as a customer your experience overall is subjective as you and I do not experience it the same way. Do they both matter? Of course.

Though, claiming to represent the voices of all casual players is false and misleading.

Your problem is with HOT not being casual enough for you. My problem is which of the 9 Professions and Builds to use with so many available options.

Carighan.6758:

Tumult.2578:

This casual, should reach my long term goal of 5 legendary weapons sometime next month and that will likely do it for me. I’ve spend about 130 mastery points in HoT and feel I have given it a fair try.

“Casual”.

Uh huh. 5 legendaries casual.

That’s the biggest problem I have with a lot of comments in this thread, I bet they’re from the ultra diehard players with lots of of legendaries and tons of achievements farmed. Because they’re so “casual”.

Dude, I do not have one legendary, and I really do not care. His/her comment is nothing more than entitlement issue.

“My first job out of high school I want to do very little as possible. Corner office, 25 paid vacation days, med & dental 100% covered, company car, laptop, and cell phone.
In 5 years I want to already own 5 different vintage Ferraris. And I expect to be promoted every 6 months.”

Astralporing.1957:

Rhanoa.3960:

HOT didn’t fail, the Players DID!

Nah. It was Anet’s fail – a failure to consider what kind of players form the basis for their game.

Rhanoa.3960:

It was a significant change and the players failed to learn and adapt to the new content.

No. The players decided not to change, but it was their decision to make. The failure was on Anet’s side in not expecting players to make that choice.

TL/DR; if you try to sell something to your clients, and they happen to not be interested, it’s your mistake, not theirs. Any business that thinks otherwise is going to fail eventually.

Game released the 3rd Qtr of 2012.
Look at us now in 2017 and a second Xpac 5 yrs later.

Has the game really failed? Far from it.

DoctorDing.5890:

Rhanoa.3960:

It was a significant change

Bingo.

As always taking it out of its original context far from it being the nail in coffin.
This is just as bad as folks with Guesstimates and their own Interpretations.

Glad to see you ignored everything else.

Let me guess it’s far less challenging than the Champion Mushroom Queen!

DoctorDing.5890:

Rhanoa.3960:

I’m ok if it is more of the same it weeds out the same folks and I am ok without that kind of crowd.

Are you OK if the game population drops so low that the game is no longer financially viable? Games have to cater to all levels of ability. In that respect, HoT failed horribly.

HOT didn’t fail, the Players DID!

Those who couldn’t bare actually making an effort on trying find their own way around even with all the hand holding the game already provided. Everything needs to go in a straight line for these folks. It was a significant change and the players failed to learn and adapt to the new content.

wmtyrance.3571:

TwiceDead.1963:

wmtyrance.3571:

Freaking HOT was bad because of the map navigation. Some people call that challenging others say its annoying. It comes down to what the person thinks it means. I myself like challenging content not bad map design which HOT was to me. I hated the game everytime i went on that map. And it changed the players attitude toward each other to be more selfish. GW2 was a really great game with a equally great community and HOT even changed that.

I see. If a map isn’t completely kittening flat it’s bad map-design. The only map that was a cluster-kitten to navigate was Tangled Depths, the other maps were fine. Verdant Brink takes some getting used to maybe, but if you can’t even put in that much effort, I have a feeling you’re just going to complain no matter what obstacle is put infront of you.

Again give players better content then wasting your time trying to make it hard to get to the content. You may have like the map but you are out numbered by many others that didn’t like it. You logic and reply is lame.

Why not just request a GPS automation system that will get you to your current destination.? Why even bother trying to do anything in a video game anymore, just let the game play for you.

STIHL.2489:

Rhanoa.3960:

STIHL.2489:

mbhalo.1547:

STIHL.2489:

But, if you really had not idea of the many thing that were done that made HoT unfriendly towards casual players, so much so that you needed to ask this question, I am going to wager that you are nowhere near close to being a casual player yourself, so, no offence to you in any way, but it would be impossible for you to gauge if PoE was in fact casual friendly or not, thus you really could not answer my question.

I consider myself a casual player – 4000 hours played, 16k AP, 5 legendary weapons + legendary backpack, do T4 fractals almost every day and here and there dabble into raiding.

With that resume.. you are very much alone in thinking you are a casual player.

The same can be said about you.

You’re Parked at around 9k AP
I am sitting around 6k AP.
Does this make me more than a casual player than you?

However, from one casual player to another I am and I continue to enjoy GW2 despite your so called casual player respresentation.

Going to bet my WvW rank is higher then yours as well, but, I could have been playing longer then you, I have no idea. When did you start?

Been playing on and off since Beta 2012!
When the game use to be hard, but folks like you ruined it. Rather than figuring it and exploring you all needed to be directed where to go or how to do things. Then complaining it was too hard.

Then HOT dropped forcing folks to EXPLORE mazes of maps in which the game was originally intended. Now we have POF folks claiming it will be more of the same.
I’m ok if it is more of the same it weeds out the same folks and I am ok without that kind of crowd.

Sykper.6583:

STIHL.2489:

No, I’ll let someone else do that. if you don’t like what they have to say, take it up with them.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Perhaps because there is a specific definition of the word casual as it is used in video games which states that either skill, time commitment or both are defining factors.

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/casual

Words evolve. We either adapt and use them as they are being used in specific contexts or we don’t. Stick with your definition if you like, but you will continue to be misunderstood by some posters and some of the information you get will be unhelpful as a result.

So by your own concession you admit according to the poster you just linked that you may in fact be using a definition of casual that isn’t conforming to the standard many posters accept. Ergo you’ve given up on any general information said by many posters who consider themselves ‘casual’ enough that might be helpful to you because they aren’t your kind of casual because ultimately what you really want to hear is from someone who is your specific kind of casual that fits a definition no one here has likely fit as criteria.

The only thing I can say that you might be able to universally accept is that it would be wise for you to watch previews, play the betas, see where GW2 has moved since HoT especially with the release of LS3 and make your own judgment. I’ll leave that to your own discretion naturally.

He meant to grab this

8.
noting or relating to video games that do not require much skill or time commitment, or noting a player of such games:
casual gamers.
Compare hard-core (def 6).

6.
noting or relating to video games that can only be mastered with advanced skill and are played in longer sessions, or noting a player of such games:
hard-core gaming.
Compare casual (def.

He must be comparing to real TIME SINK MMOs that are out in the market.

STIHL.2489:

mbhalo.1547:

STIHL.2489:

But, if you really had not idea of the many thing that were done that made HoT unfriendly towards casual players, so much so that you needed to ask this question, I am going to wager that you are nowhere near close to being a casual player yourself, so, no offence to you in any way, but it would be impossible for you to gauge if PoE was in fact casual friendly or not, thus you really could not answer my question.

I consider myself a casual player – 4000 hours played, 16k AP, 5 legendary weapons + legendary backpack, do T4 fractals almost every day and here and there dabble into raiding.

With that resume.. you are very much alone in thinking you are a casual player.

The same can be said about you.

You’re Parked at around 9k AP
I am sitting around 6k AP.
Does this make me more than a casual player than you?

However, from one casual player to another I am and I continue to enjoy GW2 despite your so called casual player respresentation.

Endest.5729:

Does not matter what you call them “casual”, low intesnsity", “noob”, etc. What really matters is that HoT was a massive failure. Never before has a AAA MMO had it first xpac fail utterly. EQ, WOW, FFXIV, etc all of these did not see a drop in players/income until they were three or four or more xpacs in.

These are public facts. Any one can look at the financial reports and see how GW2 income plunged. The lead designer was fired because HoT was such a failure.

So for the tens of thousands of ex-GW2 players who left because HoT was annoying (hard or easy is not the question). It failed because people did not like playing the zones. The vast majority of players did not care about hardcore raiding or eSports.

So question is did they learn their lesson. Will we get back to the orginal GW2 that sold by the truck loads. I am still not sure. But so far it seems like they are doing a few things right.

Last time I checked I can still log into the game! It’s far from a massive failure.

I get it you feel you got a Pinto instead of a Ferrari. I mean we are talking about a VIDEO GAME!

STIHL.2489:

AliamRationem.5172:

The point being that speaking for casual players does not validate any of your points, because the fact is casuals are not a uniform group that play the way you do and share your views on the game.

If you followed the topic, you would see that it’s pretty clear that I do speak for the real casuals, not the wannabes’ that try to pass off as ones, so they can say “l2p” and think anyone will actually listen to them.

You do not represent the casuals and I am far from being a wannabe. Your experience in game is nothing more than subjective.

Alatar.7364:

Hey Everyone, feel free to share your suggestions on Mounts, I got few so far.

1# It should be possible to dismount without mount disappearing. Have it follow player until player “stows” it. Possibly give it a “Stay” order.

2# Having some emotes designed and/ or allowed while being mounted. Being able to /wave while in saddle for example. Plus Mount emotes, that would work only while mounted. /sit, /roar, etc.

3# Noticed that current Raptor can be dyed only with one Dye. Having more options would be nice.

Thats all I had in mind.
What do others think, I wonder?

Not only do I want my mount to follow me around I’d like him to play the banjo and sing to me too.

Gotta have them emotes because every other MMO has them too.

The fact they you can even dye your mount is pretty awesome, what’s even better is an ungrateful request especially when other mmos do not allow this feature.

Insatiable ones!

STIHL.2489:

Well, it’s been a while since I posted, or played for that matter, I hope things have been going well for all of you , that populations are tip top, pugs for dungeons and meta events are plentiful, and that WvW and sPvP are brimming with players. I know most people would dream that a game would collapse behind them when they left, but, I had no such dream, in fact, I hoped things would go well enough to justify a whole new expansion, and it seems it has. So. ta da.. I’m back to check it out .

Now, I left because I was unhappy with the HoT expansion and as opposed to playing a game past its’ point of fun, I simply took my own advice and moved on to other games.

HoT made it clear that Anet was moving away from it’s casual base to cater to other gamer demographics, which is fine, it’s their game, and they have every right to do whatever they want with it, my only option is play or not play , so I opted out, but, I am piqued about PoF, however before I download the game, I am wondering if PoF is more like the Core game, or is it more like HoT.

I’ve been a casual player since the beginning and I beg to differ, STOP catering to these folks who did like HOT.

GW2 was originally intended to force players to EXPLORE not create a DUFFY guide!

But hey cry enough and the game gets the NERF BAT! Even after the NERF BAT folks still can’t solo HOT largely because they do not understand the mechanics of the game and their profession.

Wow, I must be getting punished if I am the only.

@Kitty Unless you’re a terrible Druid which I found some players to be bad at you’re an easy target. Then there are some astonishing Druids that did quite well.

I agree there is and will be huge a balance issue. I have HoT and I purposely stayed on non beta character for PvPing as I am leveling a new ranger. HoT players do have a huge advantage over non HoT players.

I have and continue to be a huge fan of this game. I am not at all into crafting and I know I am not alone on this.

I am looking for a West Coast Raiding Guild that is not pushing Ascended Gear as a requirement for raids or dungeons for the up coming Expansion.

What you get from me?

• Mature
• Dedicated
• Drama free
• 100% Rep loyal player
• All VoIP software
• 7 Level 80’s

Waiting for my Trial!

Astralporing.1957:

Rhanoa.3960:

GW2 $69.99

3yr $0.00

Please, do tell me where i can buy core game for $0.00 with no additional, hidden (or not so hidden) costs.

Apparently it’s too vague for you. I’ll add more clarity for you.

GW2 $69.99

3yr Sub $0.00

Cash Shop (Optional)

Broom.2561:

Apples and oranges indeed. WoW… I’ve never even played that game, so I can’t comment on anything wow related. The other games I play, though, offer ‘expansions’ either entirely for free (both sub games and f2p ones) or at 1/5 of the cost of HoT. And the original Guild Wars expansions were both cheaper and offered more content (and free character slots, where relevant).

3yrs of such an amazing game at $69.99.

Value over time for another 3yrs at $49.99.

Cash Shop once again (OPTIONAL)

Tribal Sage.5642:

Rhanoa.3960:

Vanilla WoW $49.99

3yr $14.99 $539.64

1st Xpac TBC $39.99 + $19.99 Base Game

Blizzard’s marketing 2007. Many of would rather go back here than be down there.

---

GW2 $69.99

3yr $0.00

1st Xpac Hot $49.99 + Free Base Game

Anet’s marketing 2015. Rather than being here you would rather be up there.
*****************************************
Time to empty your wallets or move on to your next game!

---

2014 Release
Warlords of Draenor______$49.99
Requires World of Warcraft__$19.99
Subscription______________$14.99
Cash Shop (Optional)
*************************
2015 Release
Heart of Thorns______$49.99
Requires Guild Wars 2___$0.00
Subscription__________$0.00
Cash Shop (Optional)

Talk about the generosity only to be loathed by so much ungratefulness.

I am sure ANet was anticipating the obvious outcry Blizzard had when they announced their plan.

I’m new here but I need to understand something. Why does Blizzard or World of Warcraft even get brought up. It doesn’t matter what WoW does compared to anything..

WoW is a game with a sub and not a non sub retail game that requires one purchase. It’s not the same and shouldn’t be compared. Wow is one of the only exceptions in the industry to be able to pull off a sub model extremely successfully and for many years. Most companies who try to make a subscription based game end up going free to play, take Wildstar as a shining recent example. Most games are moving toward free 2 play. Some good models and bad. Comparing this game to WoW is crazy, it’s not the same pay model at all. If you want to compare it to MMO games that are similar compare it to Crowfall, ESO, Elite: Dangerous and EVE Online.

They are both MMORPGs with the same concept with a different theme and business model just like the ones you listed.

Crownfall (Still in BETA)
Pledge Bundle/VIP Gold Members $5-$700

ESO $59.99
Plus Member $14.99 (Sub Optional)
Cash (Optional)

Elite: Dangerous $59.99
Founders Packs (Optional) £5 – £5,000
MMO with no chat feature equals no community.

EVE Online $19.99
Sub $9.99
Special Perks for multi-month subscribers $29.99 – $99.99
************************

Anything else you want me to hold your hand with?

I’m just going to wait until the price drops or they give me a free character slot!

Na….I’m just kidding! I bought it too!

Vix.6730:

Rhanoa.3960:

Vanilla WoW $39.99

3yr $14.99 $539.64

1st Xpac TBC $49.99 + $19.99 Base Game

Blizzard’s marketing 2007. Many of would rather go back here than be down there.

---

GW2 $69.99

3yr $0.00

1st Xpac Hot $49.99 + Free Base Game

Anet’s marketing 2015. Rather than being here you would rather be up there.
*****************************************
Time to empty your wallets or move on to your next game!

I was in WoW when The Burning Crusade hit. That expansion was worth $50 and then some. New races, mounts, a slew of new zones and dungeons, and I’m not including the patches which brought the Zul’Aman. Asking $50 for HoT which has content that from all appearances is 75% less than The Burning Crusade is nonsensical. You’re comparing apples to oranges.

They are both MMORPGs with the same concept with a different theme and business model. Not Apple nor Oranges it’s a software not a fruit.

Ricky.4706:

Thinking about it, I think they would have fared better with a fund raiser event.

They’d probably be in tears to know how many people actually do care about them from standing by them for so long.

Between the tears of bitterness and laughter on these boards California can be saved from their drought.

Cbomb.4310:

Ive spent 500-600$ on gems since launch and purchased 3 accounts. If gemstore wasnt extremely profitable, they wouldnt be the same A.net they are now. People that have trully supported this game since launch have every right to be upset at being treated as 2nd rate customers and you have absolutely no right to judge those that have supported the game, nor the understanding to grasp that if we havnt the game would likely be a very different beast right now. Mike O’brien might even have a slightly less expensive sports car. Can you imagine!

Seriously, 0$ over 3 years is ridiculously far from the average.

/Facepalm
You clearly only read what you want and assume the rest.

Pyriel.4370:

Rhanoa.3960:

Pyriel.4370:

Rhanoa.3960:

Vanilla WoW $49.99

3yr $14.99 $539.64

1st Xpac TBC $49.99 + $29.99 Base Game

Blizzard’s marketing 2007. Many of would rather go back here than be down there.

---

GW2 $69.99

3yr $0.00

1st Xpac Hot $49.99 + Free Base Game

Anet’s marketing 2015. Rather than being here you would rather be up there.
*****************************************
Time to empty your wallets or move on to your next game!

The Burning Crusade released @ $39.99.

And lets be honest, TBC came with a ton of content. The sub argument also goes out the window when you are talking to regular gem purchasers.

http://hothardware.com/news/world-of-warcraft-burning-crusade-gets-release-date

Also the base game is not something you get if you already have it. I.e. if you purchase HoT now, unless you create a new account with HoT linked to that one, you won’t get another copy of the base game. So for a player who bought the original for $59.99 have to also pay $49.99, it starts to look sinister and too expensive for what we know we are going to get.

Suddenly it looks different right?

Feel free to read through thread rather than just skipping deciding what you feel is relevant.

Gem Purchases is an Optional feature once again. You are not forced.

Let me help you out over here as well.

com·pli·men·ta·ry

2.
given or supplied free of charge.
*
Many folks will see this as Bundled Pricing which is very common. 1 Disc or Digital Download that come with 2-6 game or movie rolled into one price. Do you decide to complain to Target how you only want to pay for Die Hard 2 or Lethal Weapon 3?

You still got the content and pricing wrong of your main argument. So the comparisons with the actual figures and content differences of what we know actually act against your point when you know the actual figures.

Also that bundle does not work as you seem to think.

Scenario 1: You are completely new with no account = You get the core and HoT.

Scenario 2: You have an account = You only get HoT with the same purchase, same price at the same time and do not get the extra core key.

In regards to gem purchases, many have spent enough on gems to match or beat that sub price.

Also, you are missing the main complaint of the player base, the price in general. $50 is a lot more than people expect to pay for an expansion, especially one where as far as we know, there isn’t as much content as other expansion packs for other games.

Please refrain from patronising phrasing, it doesn’t help anything unless you want this thread to get toxic.

Farming gold exchange for Gems buy HoT!
Purchasing HoT
Waiting 3mons – a year for the price to drop 10%-20%.

3 options on the plate to purchase the game.

phys.7689:

Nekosumii.7852:

What you people need to realize is that they’re doing this so they can still be competitive. They’re offering the xpac with the base game to basically say “hey you can get the original game AND the xpac so you can get some more bang for your buck” this game isn’t sub based, they need to be able to keep getting new players in so they can keep their income from ebbing to the point they can’t stay afloat. I’d say they should probably just have some kind of compensation since everyone’s making such a big fuzz over this…

you are right, they know that heart of thorns to a new player is not worth 50 bucks alone. They know that a guild wars player places a higher value on HoT. The miscalculation may have been how much of a higher value does the core player place on it.

as well as pricing it at 50 for the standalone makes the core player crystalize the value of both together.

No matter how you slice it, its bad marketing. They should have had the combined game at 60 and the expansion at 40, if only to maintain the illusion that the base game was worth 60.
truth is most of their money is going to come from people who already purchased, they should have built their marketing strategy around older players perceptions of things, rather than new players.

they can give a discount on the combined game later. It would have been better to have 30% of new players waiting for a discount than have 30% of old players waiting for a discount, since they have probably gotten most of the new players they are going to get by now.

I’m an older player and they did just that $69.99 for 3 yrs of steady content released over time.

There are folks who have waited until the Base game became more affordable to them! 6 months to a year or two. Where are you on this? Why are you not demanding more Perks as Vet? After players were given 10% – 20% discounts. Do you feel justified that you deserve more since you where there at the begin paying full retail price?

Bundles is very common

http://www.bundlestars.com/
http://freebiebundle.com/
https://www.humblebundle.com/

Go to Target, Walmart, even Office Max or Staples

You will find bundle games on their shelves…..Even Movies.

Pyriel.4370:

Rhanoa.3960:

Vanilla WoW $49.99

3yr $14.99 $539.64

1st Xpac TBC $49.99 + $29.99 Base Game

Blizzard’s marketing 2007. Many of would rather go back here than be down there.

---

GW2 $69.99

3yr $0.00

1st Xpac Hot $49.99 + Free Base Game

Anet’s marketing 2015. Rather than being here you would rather be up there.
*****************************************
Time to empty your wallets or move on to your next game!

The Burning Crusade released @ $39.99.

And lets be honest, TBC came with a ton of content. The sub argument also goes out the window when you are talking to regular gem purchasers.

http://hothardware.com/news/world-of-warcraft-burning-crusade-gets-release-date

Also the base game is not something you get if you already have it. I.e. if you purchase HoT now, unless you create a new account with HoT linked to that one, you won’t get another copy of the base game. So for a player who bought the original for $59.99 have to also pay $49.99, it starts to look sinister and too expensive for what we know we are going to get.

Suddenly it looks different right?

Feel free to read through thread rather than just skipping deciding what you feel is relevant.

Gem Purchases is an Optional feature once again. You are not forced.

Let me help you out over here as well.

com·pli·men·ta·ry

2.
given or supplied free of charge.
*
Many folks will see this as Bundled Pricing which is very common. 1 Disc or Digital Download that come with 2-6 game or movie rolled into one price. Do you decide to complain to Target how you only want to pay for Die Hard 2 or Lethal Weapon 3?

JobHand.8506:

Hey guess what this isn’t WoW so lets not compare their price model. What we should hold it against is the value we got from the old Guild Wars games. They were expansions but basically stand alone games that were priced the same as this expansion. The only problem is this expansion in terms of content is pretty light at least everything they’ve revealed and is no where near a stand alone game. On top of that they don’t even have the decency to give you a god kitten ed character slot in the standard version. To me that’s extremely stingy. In the old games on top of more content you also got extra character slots. They were not used to fluff up a “deluxe” version. To patch things up they need to be more clear as to what content is being added as well as give an extra character slot to all versions.

As a side note many buy to play and free to play games with micro transactions actually do far better than most subscription based games. Because many people end up spending around the same or more a year on them.

I don’t have to use WoW,..I can use Rift, or EQ for that matter.

GW2 is not any of those games,…but it’s an MMORPG. They have a different business model.

Questioning your spending habits on an optional feature is not my business it’s your own. You make the choice, you make the decision. Everything else before that is pretty fair what ANet has offered over 3yrs.

Pandaman.4758:

Rhanoa.3960:

Pandaman.4758:

You spent $0 supporting GW2 in the past three years and you’re calling people who don’t like the expansion price penny pinchers?

What does that make you? Queen Scrooge Supreme?

You mean purchasing gems through Trading Post?

That’s an optional feature it wasn’t required or mandatory. Anet didn’t force you to purchase anything.

Missing the point.

It’s optional for you, but it’s required for the continued operation of GW2. Without people spending real money to buy gems GW2 would have closed shop months after launching. If you never bought gems with real money then you’re a penny pincher as well, but to your credit you’re a penny pincher who recognizes you can’t complain about the expansion’s price.

That’s not everyone though.

And $49.99 is no different

Again, I never said I never purchased gems. I pointed out as it is OPTIONAL feature as is the Currency Exchange.

RabbitUp.8294:

Rhanoa.3960:

It’s complimentary to the product that they are selling.

It’s not, as they are not selling that product anymore. HoT is all they sell now.

Rhanoa.3960:

Do you go to McDonalds demand that they give you a discount on your Big Mac because you do not want lettuces and tomatoes on it too? demand they give you something exchange?

They are not willing to offer me the lettuce and tomato slices in the first place. They just told me that I did my groceries yesterday, so I won’t be needing the added ingredients. But, of course, they still charge me full price.

You don’t get a code for a core GW2 if you already have it. You only get HoT and nothing else, while newcomers get both the core game and the expansion.

Really Rabbit?

com·pli·men·ta·ry

2.
given or supplied free of charge.

Sinope.5630:

Rhanoa.3960:

Vanilla WoW $49.99

3yr $14.99 $539.64

1st Xpac TBC $49.99 + $29.99 Base Game

Blizzard’s marketing 2007. Many of would rather go back here than be down there.

---

GW2 $69.99

3yr $0.00

1st Xpac Hot $49.99 + Free Base Game

Anet’s marketing 2015. Rather than being here you would rather be up there.
*****************************************
Time to empty your wallets or move on to your next game!

To me it have been like this:

GW2 €74.99

3yr €6000.00

1st Xpac Hot €44.99 + Free Base Game

So I should have been gone to WoW, it would have been cheaper for me.

Or maybe I just have finance your gaming too while you have farm gold and not support Anet at all. Right?

let me help you and Moon out!

Rhanoa.3960:

RabbitUp.8294:

Rhanoa.3960:

FARMING gold is hard right? Playing the game as intended is hard right?
People purchase Gems or they FARMED gold to exchange. Not my fault you’re not as clever.

If all people were as “clever” as you, the game would be dead.

I never said I never purchased gems. I pointed out as it is OPTIONAL feature as is the Currency Exchange.

RabbitUp.8294:

Rhanoa.3960:

I never said I never purchased gems. I pointed out as it is OPTIONAL feature as is the Currency Exchange.

Being optional means nothing. Someone pays for the content one way or the other.

The issue at hand is a new product, though. And it’s a product all need to buy for the same price, but it offers more stuff to certain people, namely the people that had done absolutely nothing for the game.

It’s complimentary to the product that they are selling.

Do you go to McDonalds demand that they give you a discount on your Big Mac because you do not want lettuces and tomatoes on it too? demand they give you something exchange?

I got what I paid for!

Insatiable players always wanting more for so little. Not having a clue how good they have it.

RabbitUp.8294:

Rhanoa.3960:

FARMING gold is hard right? Playing the game as intended is hard right?
People purchase Gems or they FARMED gold to exchange. Not my fault you’re not as clever.

If all people were as “clever” as you, the game would be dead.

I never said I never purchased gems. I pointed out as it is OPTIONAL feature as is the Currency Exchange.

Breaking Bad.6241:

Rhanoa.3960:

GW2 $69.99

3yr $0.00

In 3 years you never bought gems? Yikes. That’s some first class penny pinching.

FARMING gold is hard right? Playing the game as intended is hard right?
People purchase Gems or they FARMED gold to exchange. Not my fault you’re not as clever.

Pandaman.4758:

You spent $0 supporting GW2 in the past three years and you’re calling people who don’t like the expansion price penny pinchers?

What does that make you? Queen Scrooge Supreme?

You mean purchasing gems through Trading Post?

That’s an optional feature it wasn’t required or mandatory. Anet didn’t force you to purchase anything.

Arioso.8519:

Rhanoa.3960:

They did by letting you have BETA access.

Afterwards if you are not happy they have a been pretty generous by given folks refunds even after launch.

But I like how you only quoted one part of my statement and ignoring everything else. Ignoring the justification of $50 Xpac.
**************
Look at what you paid for and what you received over 3yrs. Anet has been pretty fair.

All the games you listed are not MMOs.

So what if all the games I listed are not MMOs.

I’m a gamer. I don’t only play MMOs.

I would NEVER play WoW with a subscription, because it is too expensive, and too time consuming to allow me to play other games that I like.

You compare GW2 to WoW saying it’s a much better value. while WoW is completely irrelevant to me so I don’t care.

I’m comparing GW2 to other games, and right now the other games are a better value to me than the expansion. If you only play MMOs, those games are likely as irrelevant to you as WoW is to me.

I weighed in with my own personal opinion and you’re projecting other people’s opinions onto mine.

I’m not a long-time veteran. I have not played Gw2 for three years, I’ve only been playing it for 8 months. I had to buy the first few chapters of the season 2 to complete it. Even counting that, the base game was a great value proposition for the price. All I’m saying is the expansion is not yet worth it to me based on what I’ve seen so far. That may change after more reveals. But there’ still plenty for me to play in the base game, so I can wait for a price drop or better deal on the xpac.

Beta access is not enticing enough to me to drop $50 sight unseen.

I played since BETA, 7 level 80’s I do not make excuses as a Veteran player.

Gw2 and WoW are in fact MMORPGs with 2 completely different business and marketing models.

You can wait for the price to drop or you can stop being lazy and FARM gold then convert it into gems.

You want me to continue holding your hand?

/facepalm

Really?
Ask for a refund?

ANet already said they would help anyone out who just bought the core game and would like to make the change to a HoT pre-purchase.

So since price for GW2 base game dropped to $29.99, $10.00, and now $0 I should ask for my money back too?

Deal is a deal right?

They did by letting you have BETA access.

Afterwards if you are not happy they have a been pretty generous by given folks refunds even after launch.

But I like how you only quoted one part of my statement and ignoring everything else. Ignoring the justification of $50 Xpac.
**************
Look at what you paid for and what you received over 3yrs. Anet has been pretty fair.

All the games you listed are not MMOs.