Guild Wars 2

Ofcourse there are servers that can give Vizunah a fight for their money. It has happened several times before and it will happen again, but not with the current matchup.

blurps.2340:

The only way to address this issue is to discourage PvDooring at night and bunkering during the day. Otherwise history will just repeat itself once Elona and whatever other server replace SFR and Deso.

Unfortunately ANet went in the exact opposite direction with the changes to arrow carts.

If they change the rating system Elona won’t need to worry about ever being stuck in tier 1. Nobody should need to worry about that, but it is a big problem at the moment with the gap between the tiers and the outrageous shutouts needed. Every time someone goes up the gap increases. It can’t keep on going forever.

Nymph of Meliai.6739:

Deniara Devious.3948:

SFR players don’t seem to be very smart when it comes to server wide strategy. If you look at
http://mos.millenium.org/matchups/#EU
it looks as if SFR would have good chances to drop to tier 2, but how SFR plays the game I don’t see it happening.

Right now they are they are spawn camping outmanned Desolation at VS borderlands. We have just couple of people and they have twice as much just outside the gates. In fact in recent weeks I haven’t seen SFR attack VS at all when Desolation is outmanned on SFR or VS BLs. Both SFR and VS are constantly attacking the outmanned party. This way SFR gains points and Desolation loses points.

Thus SFR stays in tier #1. Good for them.

SFR don’t blame VS or Aneranet, blame yourselves. ;-)

I no longer play on SFR but the guilds do not control the game and the large number of ‘unwilling to be part of the server community pugs’ destroyed the server.

However, the current score system does not work. We moved to a lower tier server and we have dominated the current match up for 2 weeks now… We are once again miles in the lead, and yet we are losing points despite ticking an average of about +380. Yesterday we lost 6,000 points while ticking at +400.

We want to go up a tier, the other servers around us, want us to go up a tier but we are stuck. You look at the other tiers and many other guilds are in the exact same position. The lowest tier you see the same server dominating with almost 100% of the map every day all day, and yet they never go up a tier.

Change the system so that top team gets promoted, bottom team gets demoted every week. We all get to play different servers each week and the fun is injected back into the game.

I think that Anet can be held to that one, regardless of what the SFR pugs do.

I agree. SFR at the current level shouldn’t be in tier 1. Regardless of the new players just jumping in and playing and gaining a few towers here and there, or if everyone gives their best shot. Just because some players manage to get their score up by enough to make them stay in tier 1 with the current rating system, doesn’t mean they belong there. Same goes for Desolation. Vizunah’s score is so dominant it makes it blatantly obvious that neither SFR or Deso should be fighting them 4 or 5 weeks in a row in the same tier. Give another server a shot, for all we know it could be the same for them. I don’t think it will be though, but we will never find out with the current rating system unless there is a dominance of one server in tier 2. It could potentially happen this week, if Elona fights all the way to the finish line. That shouldn’t be necessary though. Winner goes up, loser goes down is the simple and fair solution.

I’ve heard servers as far down as tier 5 EU (and maybe even further down) have had queues in primetime so I don’t know if 9 servers would be enough. Looking in retrospect, EU would maybe not have needed 27. But then again, most players stacked on a few servers and left two to struggle at the bottom. It’s probably a decent amount, but it’s not anywhere close to balanced population wise. To make the best out of the situation, they need to figure out a better way to determine which servers cost alot to transfer to and which does not, with WvW population in mind that is. A way to prevent more shifts in WvW playerbases in the future too is to prevent mass migration from servers because of problems with the rating system and being unable to face new opponents every now and then.

Zen.8497:

Rigel.5789:

They did manually change Sorrow’s Furnace rating a while back though. They have shown the will to act in similar situations before. A new temporary system wouldn’t be that much of a hassle to implement. I just hope they listen to us. My fear is that I will not be able to enjoy WvW for a very long time, that’s also why I went on here to get our concerns across in a polite manner.

Not to discourage you but keep in mind that quite a few N/A T1 servers (HoD, SBI, SoS, IoJ) have suffered the same faith and Anet did not intervene…

We’ve had Blacktide and Arborstone collapse on the EU side too, some would even argue Far Shiverpeaks did. This isn’t the same though, they were never stuck in tier 1 for weeks after they should have dropped. I don’t think any of those consistantly got blown out in the same way we are getting either. We have the issue where it happens to two servers at the same time.

Yes for the moment it looks like SFR may drop at the end of the week. But that requires Elona to keep up the same pressure, if they don’t want to go up it’s not like they can’t arrange it not happening. Either way something has to be done to prevent scenarios like this. It’s been a month too long for us already, I will continue to support this whether I am affected by it or not. I do not think anyone else deserves to be put in the situation we have been in, and many others before us. The main problem is not solved.

Guys let’s get back on track here. If there is some sort of french holiday or whatever is going on it is completely realistic that they have the amount they have online at night. Especially if their server population in general is higher, something I wouldn’t doubt. Let them face servers with the second and third best coverage.

A league could’ve possibly worked out if paid server transfers were in from the start. The populations are so unbalanced at the moment that I don’t really see it working out.

Empyre.2531:

Rigel.5789:

I respect what you have achieved with Vizunah Troma, and I personally do not blame Vizunah for this mess. It’s gone on for far too long with us not dropping tiers, tier 1 is not as bad as it looks on paper with the current blowout scores. It’s just that two servers are in tier 1 that shouldn’t be there. We don’t have the manpower to pull pressure off each other except for primetime. A 2v1 wouldn’t be fair for anyone and with our lack of night and morning coverage Vizunah would still win the points game.

Noone is forcing people to run on one commander, noone is forcing people to log in when there’s no enemy opposition, noone is forcing people to use siege and nothing but siege. It’s all player decision, it’s human, the easiest way. So I can’t say Viz isn’t guilty of what is happening in tier 1, nor are SFR, Deso and ANet.

If the Devs can’t fix your game and “your” gamestyle is the cause of your own boredom, think about it.

I fail to see your point. This topic isn’t about discussing blobs, night capping or siege usage. ArenaNet made the rules of the game, you simply cannot blame the players for playing the game. It’s up to us as players to get our point of view across to ArenaNet, but as of now we can’t give ourself a handicap just to play the “honorable” way or however you see it. Come up with something constructive to help the game out instead of blaming it’s players, but do so in another topic.

Our issue is how the rating system treats us as a tier 1 server even when we clearly aren’t of tier 1 calibre. It is out of our control, it is not Vizunah’s fault, but Anet can do something about it.

I respect what you have achieved with Vizunah Troma, and I personally do not blame Vizunah for this mess. It’s gone on for far too long with us not dropping tiers, tier 1 is not as bad as it looks on paper with the current blowout scores. It’s just that two servers are in tier 1 that shouldn’t be there. We don’t have the manpower to pull pressure off each other except for primetime. A 2v1 wouldn’t be fair for anyone and with our lack of night and morning coverage Vizunah would still win the points game.

I agree that the only solution is for Anet to change the rating system. For the sake of every server. Right now it may be us in tier 1 EU that suffers, but in a few weeks it could be other servers. The more players, guilds, even servers that stand behind it the better. I hope you can see it through our eyes and put yourself in our shoes. I hope it sends out a message with support from all three sides of the current tier 1 EU that this is something we all want to see happen.

Just to clear a couple of things up that has been mentioned in the past few posts. When we were competing and Vizunah went blue they didn’t have the coverage they have now. I’m not entirely sure if there actually was a call to arms, although that’s what people are saying. I was part of night shifts where Vizunah hit +5 and barely had anybody online. Now they have at least 60 people online at any time of the day, and to be frank even back then we probably couldn’t have competed with that. We would have had a much better shot at beating them than we have when over 50% of our WvW population has left, it is only natural that we should be dropping tiers by now.

Also with the free transfers around for 4 or 5 months ofcourse server transfers will occur. Either way it would go this way in the end anyway, it was just a matter of time before the gaps between each tier was big enough for no change to ever happen. It has to be dealt with, it really does.

Air.3154:

It would be nice to have at least the sing of a mod/dev showing up to say what they think on the question tbh :\

That’s all I ask for aswell. Just to hear their thoughts and have an open discussion about our concerns and what isn’t working out. As long as it is done in a polite manner, I don’t see anything wrong with it.

Nobody deserves to be stuck in tier 1. If there is some sort of rating tweak, nobody will ever have to worry about being stuck in tier 1 ever again. I’m pretty sure a few servers could get much closer to Vizunah score wise than we ever could, even with another 28 weeks in tier 1. We have lost a good chunk of our guilds. People have quit the game, and people have stopped playing for points entirely. If we did tryhard for a week we would maybe only lose by 200k instead of 233k.

The problem is we need two servers to put pressure on Vizunah off peak, we don’t have that. They simply focus us down one by one, taking everything we have because we aren’t at the same level we once were. If two servers didn’t go through this stuff at exactly the same time, one would’ve dropped much faster. It did happen however, and now the only solution for any of the three tier 1 servers to ever have even matchups again is a change of opponents.

And the fact that even more tiers and players are affected by this just shows that something has to be done. As stated before, at least be a bit more open about your plans to combat these things in the future. As far as I’m aware we have had no response from ArenaNet on any of our concerns. It looks like it could stay this way for all eternity. All of the servers that are currently affected by the current glicko system should come together and show how many people want to see this go through. I am perfectly aware that there are more. T7 EU, T5 NA to name a few. But I can only speak for myself and the general consensus on my server when I make a topic like this.

It’s not the way we want to play. We want to use our community and players to their full extent to win on our own. Make something people can be proud of again. We still have the potential as a server, and the playerbase. It will take some weeks to unleash that potential though as we still have a steady influx of new players. I don’t think Desolation is dead, but it’s mostly in the hands of ArenaNet whether the bad trend will continue or not. It is definitely out of our control. This is why I don’t want to leave, cause the potential is still there. We can still do things as a server, we can still have fun times. However, all we can really go for in tier 1 at the moments is the moments and the fights.

We could probably have some good, even fights in tier 2 or tier 3. Wherever we end up for that matter, and I think even the servers in the other tiers wouldn’t mind a change of opponents for a change. If they implement the winner goes up, loser goes down thing you won’t have to face the same opponent for two weeks straight at least.

This is the tenth week of the same tier 1 matchup. Fourth straight week where we aren’t trying, or have a chance for that matter. At some point in time someone at ArenaNet must’ve seen our posts and realised that their current rating system has it’s flaws. That is the main point I want to get across with this.

It needs to be changed, and it needs to be changed as soon as possible. The longer it goes the more broken the matchups will become and more scenarios like this one will pop up. Let’s prevent that damage from happening. It is such a simple fix.

Say they did change the rating system. Would you mind moving up for a week if you knew that there was no chance you would get stuck?

I believe the unevitable is just being delayed though. Eventually either SFR or Desolation will have to drop from tier 1.

Wanze.8410:

Why do you want to unbalance all other tiers to fix your mess?

Over time a new rating system would make every tier balanced, not just a few of them. Neither Desolation or SFR has the population to shut out tier 2 anymore, we won’t be unbalancing anything. With you being on Ring of Fire and all I have a feeling you will see a bit of an unbalanced matchup yourself this week. Another server that should be moving up the tiers is seemingly stuck in tier 7 for now.

The whole purpose of tiers is gone if they can’t match up the best three servers with each other.

Khayoss.2019:

There are many people that need help with this ratings system. The NA T5 matchup is kind of stuck too. EBay dropped down to T5 9 weeks ago. On the week we went down many guilds took a week off of WvW to do some other things. The upstart Borliss Pass server played well above expectations and handed us a loss in the tier and crippled our ratings. Since then we have won every matchup – this week by 100k over both servers – but the damage done by that single loss is almost insurmountable.

Because of the ratings gap in T4 with SoS coming from a higher tier, SBI and CD both extend their lead on us each week while losing their matchups, making our gains to move back to the tier negligible.

This isn’t fun for anyone at this point as BP and AR in our tier really have no say in what happens – we can basically decide for them which one we want to place 2nd or 3rd – while beating them by large margins does very little for us either. At the current pace, winning by 100k+ each week we will still be facing the exact same matchup for a minimum of another 5 weeks. No one in our tier wants that, we all are dying for a change of pace, tactics and scenery.

Can we please just accept that for WvW to be fun, the ratings need more volatility and room to move? The occasional blowout in either direction is fine, no one is going to quit because they moved up and couldn’t handle what came at them… but no one should be forced to roflstomp the same servers week in and out, or be booted in the head week in and week out just to maybe one day 3-4 months from now finally be able to move in one direction or the other. That’s just lame.

That’s also why we need people like you to speak up, the more the better. The more examples of this exact problem, the better for our cause. We need to show ArenaNet that this change is something we all want and that it is urgent. The way the current rating system is the rating difference between the tiers will grow everytime one server moves up a tier and another down. Over time nobody will be able to move anywhere, it simply needs to be changed for the sake of everyone.

Under Web.2497:

Samstein.5269:

Seafarer and Desolation doesn´t have the wvw players that was playing when they entered tier1, vizunah still has alot of players. Vizunah has kept it´s playerbase and that´s awesome on their part, to have loyal people that doesn´t leave for various reasons, that can sustain a good coverage and manpower throughout the crisis they might or might not have had.

Desolation and Seafarers is NOT tier1 material anymore, it hasn´t been for a couple of weeks now (if not more) and I doubt that Vizunah are enjoying themselves without a proper fight.

There are still some players and guilds left in these two servers who wants to stay but who can say how much longer? There can still be fights on the borderlands on primetime, desolation and seafarers can still be top ppt but just look at the last 2 weeks end results, vizunah has atleast double the total amount of points. It´s stupid!

Its only stupid because of 24/7 coverage from vz while the other two can’t. IF you actually track the evolution income you will realise that at PRIMETIME it is a very 3way affair and not one sided- BUT it is the coverage outside of these times that is dictating some ludicrous scores

Most of the servers in the top few tiers can have queues in primetime and do well. It is alot about coverage, that’s how the game is. No matter what you try to do to work around that it will never be balanced. But this is not the time or place to discuss that. As of now there are other servers out there that probably have better coverage and a better chance in tier 1 than us, thus they should be in tier 1, not us.

They did manually change Sorrow’s Furnace rating a while back though. They have shown the will to act in similar situations before. A new temporary system wouldn’t be that much of a hassle to implement. I just hope they listen to us. My fear is that I will not be able to enjoy WvW for a very long time, that’s also why I went on here to get our concerns across in a polite manner.

Witzard.6829:

Khisanth.2948:

Air.3154:

I know. The point is, vizuna is literally cleaning it’s kitten with deso and sfr x) That isn’t exactly fun, it’s a fight we can’t win (especially now that people got tired of fighting viz, while in viz there is SO many people they hardly get tired at all), we need a decent situation. Something that we can you know, actually fight.

Well I guess there is still one option left. Bore the enemy to death(just completely abandon WvW for the next month or something). Organizing existing people to not fight seems a lot easier than organizing non-existent people to fight. People in the lower tier attempting to do the same would only help the cause. Either they do something or they can deal with the PR of WvW being dead on a pile of servers.

I think this is better than asking ANet for help because this can be done NOW. ANet only seems willing to do things on a monthly cycle.

Action through inaction has a sort of weird appeal to me.

Without any action of Anet, this, as i see of it, is the only option you’d have to change the situation right now. Simply boycot WvW for 1-2 weeks, that should be enough to drop one tier …

We already tried that, it’s impossible to not score any points. And no matter how bad we do, whoever is in tier 2 will just score what they need to not move up. We paid for the game, we want to play the game. Not boycott it for two months so we can have fun again. This is the only way out of this that I can see as of now, untill another server does what is necessary in tier 2. But as I said, it is beyond our control. It shouldn’t be that way.

SmokeyNYY.7841:

Come over to tier one NA. SoR could use some Euro’s to make this an awesome match up.

If that’s the only way out of this, that should send a message to ArenaNet. If leaving was an option I would’ve done so already, but I want to make it work out on Desolation. I respect everyone that decided they wanted to move on and go to another tier and have good fights and some fun again. I even considered it myself at one point, I still have a tiny bit of faith left though. It really shouldn’t be necessary that an entire server does a mass exodus to other servers just because of this impossible situation. But unfortunately that process has already begun. That’s also why it is so crucial that something is done about this as soon as possible.

As of now though neither Desolation nor Seafarer’s Rest are of tier 1 quality. What’s the point in a tier 1 if it doesn’t have the best three servers? Half of our people have given up because we cannot compete. Some people still play to get points and have some fun, but ultimately we will not be able to compete again untill we drop a tier or two or some miracle happens. The points game is almost pointless to play because in the end it doesn’t make all that much of a difference, because we simply lack the manpower to challenge first. We really need time to rebuild, get our morale up and have something to fight for again.

Just to make it clear, I do not blame Vizunah. I don’t want it to turn into another thread of blaming Vizunah. I want it to be a constructive topic on how this can be solved so both our servers to go back to happily playing WvW in a tier where we belong at our current strength.

Ungood.3054:

Well. You’re simply not trying hard enough to lose to be honest.

Give it another week, you are only 20 Points from T2 as it now, and looking to lose another 10 points this week if you put some effort into it, I mean 130K last week is you guys trying to earn points.

Not to mention that 3 weeks ago, T1 EU looked pretty balanced why the fuss now?

The problem is nobody in tier 2 wants to move up, so they lose points so we can’t go down. Next week we will be 50 points ahead 4th place, it’s gonna break our server down completely if we keep doing this.

If I am not mistaken in the middle of week 14 Vizunah had some sort of call to arms where their numbers spiked at night and they started dominating. This happened at the same time as SFR were struggling with their new players. After that Desolation and SFR has lost a ton of guilds and now we can’t compete at all, but we are still stuck in a tier where we don’t belong.

Well perhaps “winner moves up/loser moves down” is the only solution to this “problem”. At least there is no reason for servers to be afraid of getting stuck in tier 1 with Vizunah that way. It will balance out the tiers rapidly and people will be able to enjoy WvW again. It would only need to be in place untill there is another way to sort out the rating problems. Anything would be better than the way it is currently.

I personally have nothing against fighting Vizunah. However as it stands now we will need some time to get back to the level we were. A level where we can put up a good fight in terms of winning a tier 1 matchup again. There is no reason whatsoever for us to be staying in tier 1 as it is today.

Witzard.6829:

If a server really wants to drop, just boycott WvW for one week.

That is exactly what Desolation has been trying to do. Sure, people still play. But not for points, they barely defend anything at all and just go for the fights. This is the fourth week of this “boycott” now, there has been no progress. Nothing is happening, and there is no way you can tell everyone on a server to just stay away from WvW for a week and get zero points, it simply won’t happen.

Let me ask you one question. Would you rather consistantly blow out your two opponents every week, or would you rather actually have to fight hard to win?

Don’t forget the purpose of the thread guys, it’s not about who blobs what, or about the playstyle of certain servers. It’s about how impossible it is for two servers that obviously are trying to drop, to actually drop down a tier. There are other servers that as of now probably would put up a much better fight in tier 1 than Desolation or SFR would. The purpose of having tiers is so everyone can get as even fights as possible. If we have to let Vizunah get 10 times our score to drop down to tier 2, then something is terribly wrong.

Something has to be done. You don’t have to be a rocket scientist to see that tier 1 EU is nowhere close to balanced at the moment. It’s a result of a steady loss of players and every week that goes by, the difference is playerbase gets bigger and bigger. And it’s only gonna get worse with time as the current situation doesn’t attract any new players either.

I am pretty sure I can speak for the majority of all three sides of the current tier 1 matchup when I say that we want new opponents. A matchup that isn’t decided on saturday morning would be nice for a change.

I feel bad for everyone that took part in today’s Stonemist fight. No skills would go off and nothing ever happened for the two hours I bothered staying. Hopefully there won’t be 100v100v100 blobs lagging up the zones for too long.

Can’t deny the fact that coverage is one of, if not the most important thing a server can have to win matches. That’s just the way the game is with the score calculation and map limits as they are now. If you don’t like it, blame the game, not it’s players.

We definitely do have the potential and the playerbase to take on the mornings though, and the point potential there is massive. Instead of losing 500 points every 15 minutes and getting every tower and keep reset, we could probably limit our losses exponentially with the amount of effort. This will again give the attack forces later in the day a better basis for further attacks. We don’t necessarily need an army to keep them off, or at least delay them long enough. We just need to figure out who can do it and how we will do it. This isn’t the place to discuss that though.

If we happen to succeed with such a thing I have a feeling we can witness an intense week with some great fights and motivated players, and that’s what everyone wants in the end now isn’t it? Let’s hope next week will be one step closer to that. We can always improve and Vizunah are really giving us something to strive for. Can’t really blame them for that can we?

wads.5730:

because the euro matchups are completely kittened up. they should have just reset the euro ranks.

You don’t really know much about the EU tiers do you? The only servers that are less than 1 tier off their proper one at the moment is Ruins of Surmia and Arborstone. And at this rate Arborstone would be there in just a week or maybe two. The problem this whole time has been the NA tiers and how the amount of rating points you need to go up a tier has been unreasonable. When a few servers died in the first few weeks of the game that left too many points at the top, and ever since there has been too big of a margin between the tiers for servers to move up and down without a shutout. With the recent crash of Stormbluff Isle and Isle of Janthir though this is getting better, so if anything this is the worst timing for a rating reset.

Arborstone will still be in tier 1 next week.

It’s quite obvious that everyone commenting will be slightly biased because of their home server being in the matchup. If you’re gaining on night capping then you will defend it and if not, then you will hate on it. Now the roles have changed and people change their opinions. There’s nothing in the rules that state american players aren’t allowed to play on an EU server, is there? You shouldn’t hate the players, they’re just playing the game. It isn’t France vs. UK. It’s Desolation vs Vizunah Square vs Arborstone. If certain servers has more coverage of certain times because they have a more international presence then that will affect the score for sure, that’s also something ANet has accounted for. If a server only had 30 active people they wouldn’t complain because they were outmanned during prime time, would they? In the end it’s all about finding a balance to make the game fair, I believe it still has a way to go to avoid making night time shifts so important. Although I believe instead of trash talking, you should actually come up with something constructive to make the gametype more playable for servers with no presence at night.

You don’t get it. I’m not saying the achievements are the problem. I’m saying the problem here is the achievement points. I can still get achievements and that works just fine. Achievement points is an additional system which I feel at the moment is ruled useless, the entire post is about why I don’t like the way the achievement points are currently awarded. Not that I don’t like the achievements in general. If I didn’t like achievements I wouldn’t have posted in the first place. If you read my first post you’d know this by now.

Completionists want to complete , at the moment it is impossible to “complete” the points system. Therefore it’s in my opinion worthless to bother with it. I do still go for the content achievements, but I can’t be bothered with the weapon master achievements and the other grindy ones. The grind isn’t worth it content-wise and there’s no reason to do it for achievement points as of now, I do as a matter of fact enjoy seeing the number rise and that is why I would appreciate it if the system had a cap. Without repeatable tasks giving out points and with a cap the points would to an extent show how much you’ve completed rather than just how many times you’ve transmuted or salvaged an item, done dailies and monthlies and as a side note how much of the other stuff you’ve done. That is my opinion on the matter. I can’t be any clearer than I was in my initial post, but I assume because it was lenghty people just skipped past it. I’m not saying this cause I’m behind on dailies and monthlies, I have infact already gotten a fair amount of points from it, but I think it over time just inflates the point system and all the other achievements will just be a fraction of your total point amount after a while. I feel like it’s a shame, I don’t see the need to question me about why I like it. It’s just an opinion. That’s why I would like to see some good arguments for why changing it up a bit could make the game worse in any respect.

I wouldn’t really care at all if people got more points than I have with the current system. It doesn’t matter one bit to me. If they removed the points for certain things the system would be more meaningful, and for me as a completionist I’d enjoy the system alot more. If it was actually possible to max it out, that would be another goal to make the game more interesting to me. As it is now I see no reason to max out all the weapon master achievements and do all the other nonsense just to get 10 points, and then have people transmute or salvage items to get the same amount of points in a few minutes. I’ve talked to people in map chat aswell and I know for sure there are more than me who enjoy trying to max things out, and as long as I don’t see a proper argument for why it would make the game worse I don’t get why people would be against other people getting more out of the game. It doesn’t seem like you guys care one bit about the system, so why does it matter if they did change it up? There’s no reason to set a goal that is impossible to achieve. I don’t care if there are a million people out there pulling it off before me, it is another reason for me to play the game after I did all the regular content, but the way it is at the moment I don’t really care much about the miscellaneous achievements. The competition bit is just something that adds to it, something that would make me want to work harder to reach my goal. If someone got there before me I would be perfectly fine with it.

But yeah, if you guys are so passionate about the current system and feels like the acheivement points currently add a lot to the game, then please state so. Cause the way it seems to me right now is that people just want to be against my opinion without really caring about the system at all and showing that they really enjoy it the way it currently is. If a majority of people thinks the current system is alot more fun than the few suggestions I had in my initial post and the one further down with a tracker for dailies and monthlies instead, then I’ll just have to accept that. But as I said, if that is the case, please do state so before telling me how these things don’t even matter. Cause to me they actually do, otherwise I wouldn’t write a 1500 word post about it.

Haishao.6851:

If someone did daily achievements everyday he actually achieved more than one who didn’t. So it’s perfectly normal for him to have more points.

To get account points you have to do things in game. It shows how active someone is in the game. This is why I called them Activity Point above, because that’s what they are.

If they were maxed, it would only show that you completed the list, not how active you actually are.

A daily achievement cumulative counter would do the exact same thing, and not inflate the achievement point system. I have done the dailies every day except one so far and I don’t like the advantage that gives me pointwise. I wouldn’t mind if it was a seperate tracker but in general achievement points should show how much you’ve actually achieved and not just if you’ve played everyday and gotten a couple kills and done some events. With the current achievement set you wouldn’t be able to max it out anytime soon if they were to remove the daily and monthly points so I can’t see people reaching max points being an issue.

Anyway this is my final post of the night. I will get back to it tommorow.

Jestunhi.7429:

I think every post here has disagreed with you?

And you took from that “it doesn’t seem like anyone would mind if they actually removed the points from the dailies and monthlies or removed the repeatable achievements in general”?!

Now give me one valid reason why it would be a bad idea to remove the points from the dailies and monthlies? How would it affect the game in any way? You can disagree with liking achievements, I don’t really care about that. But why would it affect you if you don’t like achievements? People seem to be skipping my point here.

BTT.2175:

Rigel.5789:

If you can just salvage items over and over to get the repeatable salvage achievement for points, there’s no point in comparing points at all. I don’t see the enjoyment in spending your entire gametime just farming that to get as many points as possible, and while it is still a possibility I can’t see how the points are worth anything at all. In a capped system it would be worth more than it is now at least, and then comparing it with your friends would make a whole lot more sense.

Even funnier would be the hidden uncapped tinkerer achievement; Transmute 10 items and get 3×2 points, transmute another 10 and get 5 points, repeat when bored.
The good people of anet seem to have forgotten that you can get infinite transmutation resources from HoM rewards. If one gets a couple of stacks of Hom skins people could raise their points whenever they feel like it, for example when waiting for more people to join a pug for dungeons.
Note. Items can be transmuted to the exact same skin.

I didn’t even know about that one, if that’s the case then that’s even more ridiculous. If the point system has no value, then why have one at all? They could do so much more interesting things with it.

Algreg.3629:

well, you open your opinion up for discussion when you go on the internet publicly. If you cannot stand other people not agreeing with you, then do not post.

Then tell me which of my points in any way will ruin your game experience? Cause all I see is people who say they don’t care. Which I assume means they won’t care whether it’s changed or not. I stated in my opening post that I thought there were people here that didn’t care, but if the issue doesn’t affect you at all why even reply?

If there were something constructive coming out of your post then sure I’d be glad to listen. But I can’t really see you making any valid points.

Anyway this will probably be my last post of the night, so try to come up with something clever and I’ll check back tommorow.

Algreg.3629:

if you dislike uncapped achievements, well, then simply ignore them. It is as easy as that. It´s not like anet will show up at your door with a huge gift basket once you are your servers salvager supreme.

I could just ignore them, but why have it that way when it could be adding another dimension to the experience? From the replies I’m getting here it doesn’t seem like anyone would mind if they actually removed the points from the dailies and monthlies or removed the repeatable achievements in general, so why is it a problem if some people would find that more fun? If you have anything constructive to say in regards to how it wouldn’t work or would make the game worse than please state that. If you don’t care whether or not it’s changed then I don’t see why people feel the need to post here. Fine, you don’t care. But I certainly would’ve liked it if they changed it.

warmonkey.8013:

the achievement point IS useless, because achievements are useless.

I am failing to see the issue here…

To you they may seem useless, but to others they’re fun tasks to do. If you don’t like them why would it make a difference if they removed points from dailies and removed repeatable achievements?

Haishao.6851:

Rigel.5789:

But in general, the main issue is the fact that there’s no cap, so there’s no goal to work against or any reason to compare the scores cause it doesn’t really show how much you’ve actually achieved, it could all just be repeatables or someone who logged in every day to do dailies, but very little of the other content.

Your issue should be about the lack of title to represent your achievements, not activity points.

I don’t really care about the titles, cause that’s just one achievement. If they only awarded achievement points for the regular achievements (the ones that aren’t repeatable, including dailies and monthlies) that would show the combined total of things you’ve accomplished.

nowitsawn.1276:

But after all, it’s just a number you can only brag about. Would be more of an issue if they could be used as some sort of currency.

Sure, it’s not a game breaker. But for me as a completionist, trying to max out the achievement points would be like a game within the game. In the end you could say the entire game is pointless as it doesn’t award anything in real life, but that’s not entirely true. It’s alot of fun, and that’s what I feel a better achievement system could be for people who are interested in completing stuff. At the same time I can’t see how it would ruin the game for people that don’t care about completing stuff. I don’t mind the dailies and monthlies in general, I’d just prefer it if they didn’t have those type of achievements awarding points.

niea.7504:

Rigel.5789:

The way it is now people who has gotten the daily achievements since day one has a massive advantage.

Exactly what is this massive advantage about which you’re speaking?

I don’t think you read my original post, I don’t blame you but my main point was that as long as you can get an infinite amount of points. The point system in general will be ruled useless. If you do dailies everyday you get 9 points a day. If someone joins a month late they will never be able to get those 270 points they can never get. You have the repeatable achievements though which makes the system even more useless so if you dedicate yourself to salvaging items you buy off the trading post as I’ve mentioned numerous times already you can pretty much get as many points as you like. If you sell everything you salvage you won’t really lose alot of money either so it’s pretty much free points.

But in general, the main issue is the fact that there’s no cap, so there’s no goal to work against or any reason to compare the scores cause it doesn’t really show how much you’ve actually achieved, it could all just be repeatables or someone who logged in every day to do dailies, but very little of the other content.

niea.7504:

Haishao.6851:

Basically you want to beat your friends in account points, but instead of working to beat them you want them to be unable to make points?

This pretty much sums it up.

I don’t see your logic. If you remove the daily and monthly points, everyone is on an even playing field. How does that make someone win by not letting others get points, can I get points other people can’t get? The way it is now people who has gotten the daily achievements since day one has a massive advantage. But even that can be ruled out with some salvage item farming.

If you can just salvage items over and over to get the repeatable salvage achievement for points, there’s no point in comparing points at all. I don’t see the enjoyment in spending your entire gametime just farming that to get as many points as possible, and while it is still a possibility I can’t see how the points are worth anything at all. In a capped system it would be worth more than it is now at least, and then comparing it with your friends would make a whole lot more sense.

I believe the daily achievements give 9 points every day. So if you go away for one day that person who hasn’t really done alot except for dailies will almost catch up the amount of points you’d get for a couple of the more content related achievements (that award 10 points each). It would’ve been nicer if they had a seperate achievement tracker for daily achievements. Like say “Daily achievements completed” or something that could eventually be maxed out. That way it wouldn’t feel as cheap, in my opinion at least.

2.
Being a completionist myself I have nothing against grinding at all. It’s better if it isn’t obvious and I feel achievements isn’t a bad kind of grinding. I really enjoy stats that track how you play or how your last game was in numbers. Every game that has a tracker of how many times you did this or something of that sort makes it fun to compare playthroughs or between friends. And when they add a leaderboard or achievement for it I might just run around doing things I never otherwise would’ve done. That’s why I feel some of the achievements in Guild Wars 2 max out too fast. Like the kill 1000 Risen achievement. Who doesn’t have that halfway through their storyline? I sure wouldn’t mind 2 more tiers with 5000 and 10000 kills, maybe even more if we realize 10000 maxes out too quickly aswell. Sure, this can’t apply to all enemy types and I think every enemy deserves to be evaluated on their own. You don’t need the same numbers for every achievement, if certain enemy types are rarer that will make the achievement harder the natural way. You will be able to get most of these anyway by just enjoying the game and playing for long enough or across several characters. Having them all unlocked before you start your second playthrough is sort of a shame, as it removes that dimension from that playthrough. The weapon master achievements are much more balanced in that regard and as a result it’ll take a while to max them all out, but it will also feel much more rewarding when you finally do max it out. The Salvageable item achievement is also very fast to complete, but then you unlock the repeatable one afterwards, so you never truly max it out. Why not just raise the main one to a ridiculous number, like say 10000? That way you can reward people who salvage items a lot, but you don’t have to give them 2 points every 200 items they salvage. In general I wouldn’t mind if it tracked other things aswell. Like how many things you’ve crafted or other pointless things. The more the better applies to me when it comes to stats, but that’s not really an issue.

3.
As a complete opposite to the last one. Some achievements at least according to the numbers I’ve managed to dig up has a ridiculous max tier requirement going on. I’m not sure if this is actually real numbers, but if it requires you to protect everything 500000 times in WvW to max the achievements out that’s several years of playing without breaks, assuming everything works out everytime. I can’t really even see anyone pulling that off even once in their lifetime. You’ll need to hold Stonemist Castle, have people attack every 3 minutes and actually get a kill within that time period. Sounds insane to me. Also why does the second tier skip from 1 to 1000 defends? I feel like it’s hard enough to get tier 2 on most of the WvW achievements, why isn’t it balanced out more fluidly? Like defend once for the first tier, then maybe 25 or 50, possibly 100, 250, 500, 1000 and so on. That seems much more fair to me than 1, 1000, 100000, 250000, 500000 or what it’s currently set to is I really can’t find accurate numbers though, but I feel the big leaps is the main issue here. Either way, I like that it’s hard to get there, although it should at least be possible to get there without dedicating your entire playtime to that one objective. To me as long as it is actually possible to max it out it’s not the biggest issue, although it should be debated further. I would prefer it if it was more fluid though cause it makes it easier to set short term goals on the way to a tougher goal.

Thanks for reading,. I really enjoy the game and this is pretty much my only issues with it. It has been bugging me since launch so I had to get it off my chest. Enjoy the Halloween event guys and any feedback related to this would be appreciated. Whether it’s good arguments for why you disagree or if you have anything addition to add to my own thoughts. If you agree it would be appreciated to hear something aswell as I really hope I’m not the only one with these issues.

Note: I’d like people’s opinion on the matter, that’s why I put it in this forum rather than in Suggestions forum. If you’re too lazy to read the entire thing I have a overview over my three main points in the post, from there you can see if it interests you at all.

First of all, I’m a completionist. I like to do everything in games I enjoy playing, and something that tracks your feats is always a nice addition. With a system around like that, I tend to want to get as many achievements as I can possibly get. In a lot of games achievements has made me play for hours more than I probably ever would without them being there. I may be a part of an almost extinct race as I know a lot of people who are playing Guild Wars are casual players. And you guys probably don’t care about this one bit. But then I don’t see how certain changes can affect you negatively. Feel free to tell me if my assumptions are wrong.

I’m gonna split this into 3 parts over 2 posts:
1. Achievement points with no ceiling,
2. How certain achievements are way too easy to max out
3. How certain achievements have unbalanced tiers.
These are my main issues with the current system.

1.
I usually like completing games, having all the achievements and collectibles I can get is something I usually want to do. Especially when you have that tracker that you’re trying to fill out. However in Guild Wars 2 it doesn’t feel like it’s worth anything at all, mainly because that tracker they use here is the achievement point system, and you can never reach the max value. All the regular achievements award you points and they work out just fine. This is the way I enjoy it the most, you do things once and are awareded for doing so. But with the point system that’s in place, it’s value inflates. As there’s no ceiling for how many points you can get, you can’t ever actually fill out the tracker unless you’ve gotten every daily and monthly achievement there is. If you’re late to the party that’s already ruled out. And knowing how it glitched out alot in the first month or so, I’d assume alot of people missed something. That’s not all though, there’s at least two repeatable achievements that can give you an infinite amount of points. So not even with every daily and monthly achievement can you max out the amount of points. One of the repeatable achievements awards you 2 points per 200 items you salvage. You can pretty much just buy salvageable items from the trading post and salvage it without much of a loss and stack up on these achievement points to the point where they have lost the tiny fraction of meaning they have.

I find the repeatable ones the worst kind, they give no rewards other than achievement points and for me and I guess some other completionists aswell this ruins the system entirely, I can’t see how this possibly adds depth to the system. Dailies and monthlies is another thing I’m not very fond of awarding achievement points. Although at least I can somewhat accept the fact that they do. Ideally though I wouldn’t have them award it either. But I’m sure there are alot of people who believe otherwise (I’m interested to see how many are actually for and against this).

I’m a competitive person, and that’s who I am. So initially when I play games that my friends also play I tend to try to beat their scores on the leaderboards or unlock some of those hard achievements before they do. Here the only thing I can actually compare is how many points they have. If I want to know if they have a certian achievement I’ll have to ask them about it, the points are available in your friend and guild menus even when they’re offline. I feel the points in general is something that could’ve added another dimension to the game though. At least for people like me. But with the current system, it just doesn’t work, but I really, really wish it did.

To be continued…