Guild Wars 2

Awe.1096:

And to people who still struggle to do all dailies atm but are feeling bad with it. My advice. Just quit. You will get over it with time and you will find other goals. If doing all dailies right now feels like a giant chore, it is not worth it. Just cut the cord and leave. There are many great games to try out which does not require you to play each day for 8h to not loose “stuff”.

+1, in 8 minutes the first day I didn’t get a daily will have passed and at this point it doesn’t even feel like a shame. If we were to get a response we would’ve had one by now, so I don’t see it happening. Not worth it anymore imo. It’s a shame cause I don’t think alot of people realise what a good achievement system can bring to a game and how many completionists there are in gaming today. We may be a minority in GW2 now, but frankly that’s because of all the bumps in the road we’ve seen before this one. This was the final bump in the road for me. And unless something drastically changes with the direction of the game, I don’t see myself coming back.

I wish all of you that still want to fight this battle good luck.

Qaelyn.7612:

Rigel.5789:

We don’t want to sit and repeat the same daily required content every day.

Then don’t. Problem solved.

That really is the bottom line, because the issue isn’t anything to do with GW2, just with a small number of (very loud) people who don’t seem to be capable of making wise decisions about how to spend their time. The only complaint I would make to Arenanet, again, is about the stupid leaderboard that encourages pathological accumulation of these meaningless “achievement” points.

Did you pay attention to the thread at all, that is what we already said. We will stop playing the game because we don’t want to do this stuff, unless they remove it that is. Completionists are actually more common than you might think, and in this thread you are being the loud minority. But unless ArenaNet realises the problems of the current system the completionist population of Guild Wars 2 will drop immensely. If you regard problem solving as purposely turning off your players making them leave the game, then sure maybe it’s “Problem solved”. If ArenaNet sees it that way aswell then I’m fine with leaving. At least we can say we did try to help them by making the game cater more to the growing gaming demographic that is completionists, but have they listened to even one of our concerns? No.

And to be fair, you may call the achievement leaderboard stupid, but the PvP leaderboards in it’s current state is as pointless. I’ve seen this with my own eyes climbing to top 5 on the ladder without doing anything significant that would mean I belonged there. Achievement leaderboard is a simple fix to spice up, we have time and time again posted threads on how to do it. This thread however was not created for that purpose, this was to show how we are against the new dailies ruling the whole achievement point system and completionism useless in this game.

Qaelyn.7612:

The problem isn’t the new dailies. The problem is the leaderboard.

Having a leaderboard for something that measures not skill but just hours of time wasted on grinding encourages the sort of dysfunctional behavior that’s all over this thread.

The problem is that we get new dailies over actual hard permanent achievements to differentiate people. We want it to be based more on skill, when we see the entire system go in the opposite direction ofcourse we will consider leaving the game because this is what drives completionists. We don’t want to sit and repeat the same daily required content every day. You seem to talk to us as if it was the opposite. If we sat and praised all these dailies and wanted more time gated temporary content to get our “severe addiction” and play times to rank us at the top, then I could somewhat see where you were going with it. That’s not how we are at all though, and that is the entire reason the thread was made in the first place. Instead of just assuming things and argue for the sake of argueing you should consider getting your facts straight.

We have had numerous feedback threads on the entire idea of dailies awarding so many points before and this is the last straw. We provide feedback and what do we get? More of what we didn’t like to begin wtih. I personally no longer have any faith in this system being improved on so I’m not gonna waste 7 hours of my day in hopes of it changing back or improving at this point. No developer response in this thread makes it seem like a good decision.

Artorias.5231:

20min per match inclub que and fight

you will spend about 1.6 hours PER DAY to complete these 4 daily if you are lucky to have 100% win

you will spend about 5.3 hours PER DAY to complete these 4 daily if you have 50% win

you will spend about 7 hours PER DAY to complete these 4 daily if you’re so unluck only have 30% win

hey,how can this game become so madnese??

2,66 hours if you’re lucky enough to get 100% win you mean :p 60 minutes in an hour, not 100.
But yes, realistically 4-6ish hours a day in tPvP if you want to maximize your achievement points. Let’s just realise it, ArenaNet doesn’t care. Judging by the amount of responses in other threads they must’ve seen this by now and we’ve been ignored once again.

My time investment into this game was obviously a big mistake.

Darnis.4056:

Rigel.5789:

Darnis.4056:

This is ridiculous; We can’t have Games instead of wins in Pvp, this encourages afkers, which is really the way that Achievement hunters play PVP.

Completionists always work towards achievements. Whenever I do PvP I want to win to progress my win achievement, naturally. You can’t come in here and claim to know how completionists play PvP when you aren’t one. And to have said it, I don’t think changing it to games would fix the core problem. It would still take many hours to do the dailies. 8 tournament matches a day including queue times would still take 2-3 hours, when all completionists have been asking for less timewaste on dailies and more permanent achievement progression instead.

If you’re playing to win then you wouldn’t mind wins on matches. Instead you’re asking to revert to the original system which was heavily exploded by afker pve players or as you call them achievement hunters..

Did you even read the thread? The issue is the time requirement to keep up with all the daily achievements, winning 8 matches a day can easily take 4-5 hours with average teams. I suggest you read the thread instead of replying prematurely, all your claims will make no sense otherwise.

Darnis.4056:

This is ridiculous; We can’t have Games instead of wins in Pvp, this encourages afkers, which is really the way that Achievement hunters play PVP.

Completionists always work towards achievements. Whenever I do PvP I want to win to progress my win achievement, naturally. You can’t come in here and claim to know how completionists play PvP when you aren’t one. And to have said it, I don’t think changing it to games would fix the core problem. It would still take many hours to do the dailies. 8 tournament matches a day including queue times would still take 2-3 hours, when all completionists have been asking for less timewaste on dailies and more permanent achievement progression instead.

Subdue.5479:

Sorry, I’ll take your arguments more clearly when you can come up with a reason other than “I don’t want people who are willing to do the additional achievements to be able to move ahead of those who aren’t.” Because right now, that’s all it is. It’s not that you believe all completionists don’t want the option to be there. If that were the case, then the leaderboard would not change one bit. It’s that you don’t want the option to be there because some completionists might take up the challenge and do it, thus moving them up the boards.

Another response that shows you have no idea what you are talking about. The problem is the fact that the achievements are TEMPORARY. It breaks the system, and you are ignoring all the arguments we have brought up around this. Why do you come back, pick out a few lines and respond with the same points over and over when we have already responded to them? What you have against completionists I do not know, but it is quite obvious that you do not want to accept that we oppose this system. I’ll take any permanent achievements any day, even if I can’t do them now, I’ll always have the possibility to do it in the future. If you miss dailies you can never get them back, we used to be able to let this pass by since it was feasible to do them all every day (but there were already plenty of complaints about it before). That is not the case anymore. A lot of completionists already dropped out of the game because they couldn’t cope with the dailies, those of us who are left accepted that we had to spend 30 minutes a day and because we did like the game enough to say it was a worthwhile thing to do. With that increasing steadily, more and more are dropping off, and with the extreme 7 hours it is currently at it will die off completely.

And the fact that you refer to dailies as “more content” is a complete joke. It isn’t more content, it’s just reusing the same old content over and over. There is no achievement in repeating the same task every day. I also personally don’t care much for the leaderboards. You make it sound like the leaderboard is supposed to be some sort of competition for “who can grind most dailies and spend most time in the game”. We are completionists, we want challenging permanent content and the ability to actually complete it. Missable content is a completionists’ worst enemy. For a leaderboard system to be successful it needs to have hard temporary achievements to make the differentiation, not temporary achievements making it impossible to ever climb the board. Oh but I notice the pattern, you will probably grab the last few lines and respond with “That’s why you add so many temporary achievements you can still climb the leaderboards if you spend the time”. As if we never responded to that, but then I suggest you read the posts once again and you will already have your answer.

For that reason, if Anet wants to turn it into a “who can do most daily grind every day”-system then that is not a system a completionist will be satisfied with, thus going elsewhere to find something that actually feels satisfying to work towards completion on. It would be nice to get an official response confirming what their ideals for the system is so we can decide whether or not our investment in this game should continue or not.

Subdue.5479:

Woah woah woah. You need to make a distinction here. Are completionists doing what they do because they like completing content, or are they doing it for a spot on the leaderboard? If it’s because they like completing content, then dailies have nothing to do with it, since dailies can never and will never be complete. If on the other hand, completionists are doing it to be on the leaderboard, then having MORE to do not LESS is a good thing, because it leaves more room for differentiation.

If they removed dailies altogether and balanced permanent achievements between PvE and PvP it wouldn’t even be needed to sit here and say “PvP population needs more achievement points”.

Uh, MMOs and generally most games without a subscription have a daily reward in place that keeps players hopping on at least once a day. This keeps the game active. Getting rid of the dailies would be detrimental to the game.

You don’t seem to understand what a completionist is all about, all of us did all dailies and everything even before the leaderboards. Getting a maximum amount of achievement points we can possibly get is ofcourse what drives us, that involves doing all dailies. The leaderboards aren’t the bane of our existance, we just want to complete the game as much as we possibly can. The dailies are fine, the way they award achievement points however should be reconsidered. Gold, exp, laurels and all the other stuff is already enough of a reason to do them for most players. Name another game that bases their achievement point system around dailies that people actually care about.

Subdue.5479:

There’s something inherently different between wanting something and not wanting others to have something. And I’m sorry, AP results in free skins, gold, gems, PVP Gear, and so on. So yes, a PvP player would care about AP.

I have to laugh at this, as mainly a PvP player I couldn’t really care less about free skins and most of the junky achievement rewards, neither do a majority of my PvP friends. Getting some free gold and gems every 5k points may be nice, but if all you do is PvP dailies it will take you 2 years in between every 5k chest. 30 gold every 2 years, it is nothing compared to what you will make from anything else in the game. And by the logic of the PvP community in this thread, why should they get it if they don’t want to put in the effort of doing achievements? Getting it through dailies is the long way around. If the rewards were so worthwhile, why did nobody care enough to go and do the easy achievements so they could actually get it before? I highly doubt this will change anything in a regular PvPers to itch for achievement points more than before.

I have to split my response into two posts cause of it’s length.

Subdue.5479:

The thing is, the daily system was never designed for people to be striving to complete every single possible daily every single day. That you completionists have decided they want to do that is entirely you.

The purpose of dailies is to reward people for hopping on every day and playing the game in whatever way they want to play. That’s why you can often get the minimum 5 dailies for the reward while doing other things. It is in that line of thought that new PvP dailies were added, as a boon to players who only enjoy PvP, so that they’re not always getting the shaft when it comes to AP.

You’re free to enjoy the game in whatever way you like. You want to grab every single daily every single day, great! But for you to sit there and point to a daily that’s intended to make things better for a historically marginalized group of players because it doesn’t fit with your own notion of how you want to play the game, well, that’s just wrong on so many levels.

If A.Net were to add even more dailies, or heck, just make all of the possible dailies available every day, most players would benefit, not just because there would be more potential AP going around, but because they’d be more free to play the game however they want, which is what A.Net is going for.

If for some reason you can’t cope with not grabbing every single daily every single day, and the new PvP dailies are as traumatic to your enjoyment of the game as you claim, that’s a personal problem, not a problem with the game.

The daily system can still be in place without flooding the game with AP. Most regular achievements give way less points than dailies in terms of time spent. Most other MMOs have an actual achievement system with permanent achievements awarding the points so you can actually compare the score. This is what triggers completionists, if ArenaNet doesn’t want to compell completionists to play the game that is their loss. They didn’t have to make all the other fluff to give everyone else a reason to care about the points, they could’ve made the system more compelling from scratch so it would truly mean something.

“But for you to sit there and point to a daily that’s intended to make things better for a historically marginalized group of players because it doesn’t fit with your own notion of how you want to play the game, well, that’s just wrong on so many levels.”

Why is it right that it’s there when it makes the game even worse for another group of players? You do realize your argument works both ways. You telling me that my opinion is wrong is what’s wrong on so many levels. I respect it if others have a different opinion, but this is the tip of the iceberg that will make a lot of completionists leave the game whether you like it or not. How you want to weight that against some PvP players getting a few APs is up to you. I know for sure if I was purely a PvP player I wouldn’t care one bit about AP.

They want to make everyone be able to play the game the way they want to you say, but you forget that there are completionists in this game that also quite enjoy collecting achievements but we can’t play the game we want to because of all the dailies that are in our way.

If they removed dailies altogether and balanced permanent achievements between PvE and PvP it wouldn’t even be needed to sit here and say “PvP population needs more achievement points”.

If ArenaNet doesn’t want to attract the completionist population of the gaming world that is entirely their decision, but making a trainwreck of the system certainly won’t attract them. We have on numerous occasions suggested changes to the dailies (capping it at 5 points per day for instance in the QoL thread) and so on. Everyone would still get their laurel, gold, exp and ap rewards in a fair manner balanced across PvE and PvP, but instead of listening to our feedback they go the other way around and add even more dailies to grind through ofcourse we react. And if this is the way they want to go then there are very few that will cope with it. There are players who get their full enjoyment out of the game from the fact they are a completionist, and usually there is a lot to do in an MMO on a permanent basis (they don’t need to add repetitive daily stuff to the mix because there isn’t enough permanent stuff). When players that aren’t completionist come and say we are wrong about how to make a good achievement system for players who enjoy that type of thing I find that rather surrealistic.

Subdue.5479:

@Rigel:

Have you ever missed a daily? I’d be very surprised if your answer is no, you’ve gotten every single daily every single day since launch. There’s nothing wrong with that, just like there’s nothing wrong with you opting not to do the pvp dailies. You and these other completionists aren’t really complaining that there’s more to do. You’re complaining that you don’t want to do it AND – this is the key – you don’t want other people to be able to do it either. Why shouldn’t someone who is willing to spend an extra 4 hours a day for a few extra AP be able to do so?

Like I said before, what you completionists need isn’t less stuff to do, it’s more. There should be so much stuff to do that it is impossible to do all of it every single day. That way it becomes less about filling a quota and more about strategically approaching dailies as efficiently as possible.

The more mandatory hours you put in, the less competitive it will be because less players will want to cope with it (remember we are talking about doing it every day here). That is the problem. With 6-7 hours a day as a requirement to get all dailies, there is only a very select few who will want to do it. Most of us enjoy achievements in general and preferably the regular achievements over the dailies, the dailies is just the grind we have to get through before we can move on to what we want to progress in that day. I personally would’ve liked it if dailies didn’t award points at all, I’m not a very big fan of temporary achievements. But I coped with it cause at launch I enjoyed the game, and afterwards I’ve been too invested and not really seen it as a big enough reason to quit. It was okay to begin with because it only took 15 minutes every day, but that number keeps rising with every patch. Before this patch it had reached two hours, and it’s not the evolution a completionist would like to see.

You can stretch the “Why shouldn’t someone who is willing to spend an extra 4 hours a day for a few extra AP be able to do so?” to 6 hours, maybe even 8 or what about 25 hours, impossible to do all so whoever spends the most time gets the most points? But it’s no longer for completionists if you can’t do everything, so what you describe simply doesn’t appeal to us. We want more stuff to do, but more permanent stuff, not temporary stuff.
Most of the completionists don’t really enjoy this part of the system, so if this becomes a reality we will move on to a more compelling system. If they want to make the achievement max only available to people who wanna do 4 hours of PvP a day then sure, but that makes for a pretty bad achievement system in my opinion. It’s now a matter of completing but grinding the same easy tasks over and over. You will have that matter more than who completed a majority of the permanent achievements (and yes I am aware a majority of these are easy aswell, but I wish they weren’t).

These include hard permanent PvP achievements aswell, I would very much appreciate that good PvPers were awarded, it would give us a challenge and something to stretch towards. In the end those who put alot of effort and tiem into the game will be getting a lot of the permanent achievements anyway so the whole “effort” thing that has been brought up will still apply. It’s just that the system should be compelling enough that people want to put in the effort. Making a bad system only to say those that don’t enjoy it aren’t deserving is just a bad excuse not to make a good system where also skill would come into play.

Darnis.4056:

Rigel.5789:

Just imagine if they took a massive dump on PvP and every PvP player quit except a few, you could still say “But you don’t have to play PvP you know?”. A true PvP player wouldn’t go do PvE if that happened, they would find another PvP game. It’s the same thing.

That last part about PvP sounds Vaguely familiar…………………..

I know it does, but do you really wish it on another community aswell? I think there are a lot of misconceptions in this thread about a lot of things. I think most of us can relate to the scenario here.

We don’t want the achievement leaderboards to be the meaningless “who can grind the most dailies”-board. But with the system we had (even though very flawed) a lot of players have coped with the 2 hour daily grind so it has still been sort of competitive. Since that was the case, who did most of everything else has still mattered. After this, that will probably not be the case for very long. Over time it will show who will bother and who won’t and the very select few that does these dailies will rise to the top. (Likelyhood is that those who won’t will just quit the game because the 2h grind in itself really isn’t worth it for game enjoyment, it’s the rest of the achievements that are but with a 6h grind every day you will never get to them, and if you ignore them you can’t stay competitive).

Most of the hardcore completionists are players who really work hard to improve their game, to be the best they can be and achieve the hardest things games has to offer. We aren’t casual PvE players who just point at something and cry if we can’t get it because we aren’t good enough. Although this is a matter of a nonsensical and boring grind, not player skill in any way so it is a huge turn off. You could of course argue you can get dailies done faster if you have more skill, that is very true. But the fact that you completed it does not automatically make you skilled.

Ewon.5903:

Just thought I would check in. I have successfully stayed away from the game and missed my first set of dailies after trying to quit. Man, it feels great to not have that daily grind looming over me.

Sounds like a feeling I would very much like to have aswell at the moment. Although it sort of reminds me how people try to stop other addictions. They know it is bad for them, yet they can’t stop. One day though… I will.

I agree with what Dyne said aswell. I don’t think dailies should award points at all. Repeatables aren’t the way to go. Hard accomplishments and exploring everything the game has to offer is what I would like to see awarded. I could probably write a few thousand words on how I would’ve loved to see an achievement system, but to be frank I don’t see it worth the effort with the little attention our community has gotten unfortunately. I still very much support the message of the thread though and those of you that are still coping I wish you all the best.

Subdue.5479:

Awe.1096:

Subdue.5479:

The best thing ANet could do to make the leaderboard actually worth working towards is to make it so that there are so many options available for daily completions that no one could possibly do every single option every single day. Then the leaderboard would be about who worked through it faster, more efficiently, and more devotedly.

Then some poor soul would try to game it and play 18 hours per day doing dailies. He would be at the top. And perhaps dead few years later (remember the headlines about gamers playing for 40 hours and ending up dead). WoW tried to focus on doing hours of dailies at the start of current expansion. They later admitted it was a design mistake since it burned several people out. I am sure there is someone out there willing to grind dailies in GW2 for 10h each day. But that is not me and if GW2 is heading into this direction it is no longer my “one and only beloved game”. Simple as that.

And quite frankly, that’s your call. You are in no way forced to do all the dailies. At most you could make an argument that because of the value of laurels and their time gated nature, you’re “forced”, and even then I use that term loosely, to do 5 of them. Those 5 take most likely 30 minutes max.

The nature of competition is that the best, most motivated, most devoted should be recognized as such. You don’t see athletes complaining that their fellow competitors are training too hard or too much. This isn’t any different.

Then give players a competitive enviroment in which people want to compete in. We are hardcore players just like anyone else competing in other fashions, striving for hard achievements that few can complete (not because it takes a long time to do, but because of how hard it is to pull off). The simple fact is the system here is so bad that people don’t want to cope with it, most completionists that care about these type of systems would rather move on to other games because of how little compelling it is. Spending 6-7 hours of your day doing the same tasks is something I don’t see a lot of players doing, especially when in this case the content we are forced to repeat for the most part is pretty boring (PvE dailies) every day, and then again we have to do a certain gametype for 4-5 hours a day on top of that. As much as I love PvP and achievements (I’m mainly a PvP player who enjoys that tons more than PvE) the fact that if I decide that I want to do something else one day and lose out on these points will give me a disadvantage just shows that this is a kittenty system. A good achievement system shouldn’t have a lot of temporary achievements, because that leaves out every single player that can’t play every day and whoever buys the game after it has launched.

Of course we as players with a passion for achievements want to give our feedback on the matter, but it’s seems like that our feedback will be ignored. And to be frank, if that is what ArenaNet wants then that is not a problem, we have other games we can play. But they can’t say we didn’t give them the warning. We did tell them that we are not fine with this and we won’t be staying around if this is how they intend to “evolve” the system. Before we used to have to do 2 hours of repetitive content before we could move on and work on whatever we wanted, now it is 6. It’s a big difference, and in alot of eyes not an acceptable one.

So sure, whoever can cope with this system will rise to the top among the significantly smaller community of players, and you can argue those are the “best” and most motivated achievement hunters. But that would be because of the lack of competition and most likeminded players decided to quit.

Just imagine if they took a massive dump on PvP and every PvP player quit except a few, you could still say “But you don’t have to play PvP you know?”. A true PvP player wouldn’t go do PvE if that happened, they would find another PvP game. It’s the same thing.

Writetyper.1985:

Rigel.5789:

You’re sitting here arguing for the sake of arguing when you obviously don’t care about this either way. If you’re not a completionist you won’t understand the mindset of one, and judging by your responses you do have absolutely no clue.

Now if people who only go in here with the intent’s of trolling because they couldn’t care less about the subject should think twice and maybe move on to something that actually matters to them.

It does matter to me. I want them to keep what precious little AP they’ve finally added for actual PvP players. I play both modes so I have something like 12k, but I have several friends who only play PvP who have maybe 3k-4k at tops? And you’re sitting here with 14k trying to get that taken away because you can’t be kittened doing them. That is incredibly selfish and entitled.

And those with 3k-4k obviously don’t care about completionism, and if boosting their sum of points was a big deal there are plenty of simpler way to do it. It’s quite obvious you’re just here to argue for the sake of argueing because you have no actual points with your post.

Writetyper.1985:

Rigel.5789:

If this stays in the game it will turn off most of the completionists from sticking around. Temporary achievements are absurd enough to begin with, but to require people to play six hours a day without an exception repeating the same tasks amazes me. That is what is the issue.

Dude – I have bad news for you, there are unreasonable achievements LITTERED throughout this game if you’re a completionist. It takes something like 8 years of 13 hours a day of a dolyak a minute to get Yakslapper. You could probably kill a man and be out in 8 years on good behaviour. I think anyone rational has accepted that they won’t get every achievement point. If you’re complaining about the leaderboards then wow, now we actually have something to separate the hardcore from the not hardcore enough.

Yes those are unreasonable achievements and there has been plenty of complaints about the ones that are realistically impossible. There is one very big difference here though. These are permanent achievements that you can always work towards. With dailies you can miss them and they never come back.

Writetyper.1985:

Rigel.5789:

If their intent is to have it this way to make it “harder” to get achievement points. Then I’m fine with it, I’ll just go and do something else with my time, and ArenaNet will lose alot of their most loyal players from it, trust me.

Maybe you’re right. Maybe they were mislabeled all along. Maybe AP stands for “Attendance Points” and you get them for just logging on and frolicking around every day, not “Achievement Points”, for you know, achieving things. They should be given out for free to anyone who turns up. Guild wars isn’t quite that casual yet.

So you define hardcore as someone who can bore themselves out of their mind by completing the same mind numbing task for 6 hours every day of their life without a break? If ArenaNet really wants to make it compelling to be a completionist in Guild Wars 2 that is definitely not the way to go. If you believe the players with the most achievement points are casual players of the game then I suggest you go look up the word casual in a dictionary.
I’m all for hard achievements, but these aren’t hard achievements. These are timed achievements that you repeat every day designed to take up hours of your day. Of course as a completionist this is a massive deal breaker, that is why we are voicing our thoughts on it here. If this is their intent then I don’t think very many completionists will keep playing if it remains. You could claim all you want that it shows who are the real hardcore players, but the actual case would be that ArenaNet failed to make a compelling achievement point system.

Writetyper.1985:

Rigel.5789:

And the argument that whoever cares for achievement points are just PvEers has already been proved wrong numerous times in this thread. In fact, I’d assume quite a few of them are better at it than some of the players posting in this thread judging by their knowledge of the game.

Simply amazing. Resorting to ad hominem in defence of easily attainable achievement points. Self centered ad hominem at that.

The level of responses some people in this thread has, shows complete lack of knowledge of the game they are playing, and that includes you to a certain degree. I stand by my point.

Darnis.4056:

Rigel.5789:

Darnis.4056:

Rigel.5789:

Adris.1859:

Rigel.5789:

Adris.1859:

I love to take a bath in this river of tears. You achievement grinders are hilarious !

And this is the GW2 community we are all so proud of. Nice.

Keep on grinding with your farmbuddies man. PvE community you are so proud of.

Judging by solo queue leaderboards where you are rank 618 and I’m rank 16 I’d say you should go farm in PvE buddy.

tichorum.2415:

The op has no idea what he’s talking about. You only need 4 of them, it’s just an additional way to get AP or the daily in general.

You may only need to do 4 of them to get the daily chest, but if you are a completionist you don’t miss out on point purposely.

You are only up there because of broken decay. Soloque rating is also determined by complete randomness.. Please never brag about your soloque rank again.

Pvp dailys should give extra rewards to pvpers not pve completionists.

Definitely a poorly thought out achievement. It should be “play 3 solo queue games” and “play 3 tpvp games”. Either of those should also count towards the “play 3 matches” daily as well.

No actually it’s very well thought out to prevent Afking matches like in prior daily achievements.

I already pointed out earlier in the thread that I don’t value solo queue ranking at all. I however do know for a fact that if you are any good you can easily get into the top 100, something you haven’t accomplished. I’m as much of a PvPer as anyone in this thread, and all you seem to argue for is to have these dailies in here so you can sit there and enjoy other people’s misfortune.

Very well thought out to prevent afking is just laughable. You were required to get 5 kills, 3 caps and top stats before. Something you can’t achieve by afking. And still if people only care about the actual chest, this won’t remove any of the previous problems. So if you’re stubborn enough to imply people akitten for the daily chest before, that would probably still be the case.

Actually I haven’t played solo que for quite some time, and my personal best was r21 and r45 in team que, not that it matters team que is the only fair rating of skill left atm and even then it’s only marginally true, something you haven’t yourself accomplished.

I’ll retract what I said on that note, I responded as if you were Adris, the guy I originally quoted, however you are not so I apologize. Just to make it clear though, I have been top 50 in team queue myself aswell, but I don’t value that either considering how few competitive teams are still left in the game.

Darnis.4056:

Rigel.5789:

Adris.1859:

Rigel.5789:

Adris.1859:

I love to take a bath in this river of tears. You achievement grinders are hilarious !

And this is the GW2 community we are all so proud of. Nice.

Keep on grinding with your farmbuddies man. PvE community you are so proud of.

Judging by solo queue leaderboards where you are rank 618 and I’m rank 16 I’d say you should go farm in PvE buddy.

tichorum.2415:

The op has no idea what he’s talking about. You only need 4 of them, it’s just an additional way to get AP or the daily in general.

You may only need to do 4 of them to get the daily chest, but if you are a completionist you don’t miss out on point purposely.

You are only up there because of broken decay. Soloque rating is also determined by complete randomness.. Please never brag about your soloque rank again.

Pvp dailys should give extra rewards to pvpers not pve completionists.

Definitely a poorly thought out achievement. It should be “play 3 solo queue games” and “play 3 tpvp games”. Either of those should also count towards the “play 3 matches” daily as well.

No actually it’s very well thought out to prevent Afking matches like in prior daily achievements.

I already pointed out earlier in the thread that I don’t value solo queue ranking at all. I however do know for a fact that if you are any good you can easily get into the top 100, something you haven’t accomplished. I’m as much of a PvPer as anyone in this thread, and all you seem to argue for is to have these dailies in here so you can sit there and enjoy other people’s misfortune.

Very well thought out to prevent afking is just laughable. You were required to get 5 kills, 3 caps and top stats before. Something you can’t achieve by afking. And still if people only care about the actual chest, this won’t remove any of the previous problems. So if you’re stubborn enough to imply people akitten for the daily chest before, that would probably still be the case.

Adris.1859:

Rigel.5789:

Adris.1859:

I love to take a bath in this river of tears. You achievement grinders are hilarious !

And this is the GW2 community we are all so proud of. Nice.

Keep on grinding with your farmbuddies man. PvE community you are so proud of.

Judging by solo queue leaderboards where you are rank 618 and I’m rank 16 I’d say you should go farm in PvE buddy.

tichorum.2415:

The op has no idea what he’s talking about. You only need 4 of them, it’s just an additional way to get AP or the daily in general.

You may only need to do 4 of them to get the daily chest, but if you are a completionist you don’t miss out on point purposely.

Adris.1859:

I love to take a bath in this river of tears. You achievement grinders are hilarious !

And this is the GW2 community we are all so proud of. Nice.

Of course the influx is temporary, it has been proven numerous times after updates regarding PvP that after patch day it only goes downhill.

Darnis.4056:

The Dailys are good for the game; Bad for achievement farmers.

Daily actually takes about the same time for me to finish.
Influx of players trying Tque and Soloque with buddies; good
Pve heros complaining they cant ezfarm all achievements in hotjoin: good

I hope you realise this influx will be very short term. And as a matter of fact there are already tournament win achievements so any completionist is already very avid tournament players so I don’t really see it as an influx but rather an exodus.

Writetyper.1985:

Shakki.3219:

And again a useless post above me.

Why can’t people realize that the Achievement people want to do EVERY daily category for the AP you can get, is it that hard?

No actually – I don’t understand. Why? For what purpose? You want to do them, but you don’t want to do them? kittening what?

Shakki.3219:

And people are complaining because they’re not able to without spending alot of time especially now with the Win tpvp kitten….

But if you’re not a PvP player and are incapable of winning tPvP, then why? To keep up with people on the leaderboards? I guess you just aren’t hardcore enough if you’re not able to do every daily and are going to get the place on the leaderboards, by the way. There’s a word that describes this behavior perfectly btw: Starts with A, ryhmes with Ballistic.

Shakki.3219:

The daily is broken anyways, it should be like: choose 5 pve dailies, 4 pvp dailies and thats it, no more AP after these if you complete any. This makes it truly choosable for every kind of player.

It is choosable. You only have to do 4 dailies to get the chest.

Never thought I’d see the day where the forums would complain about having MORE things to do, but apparently it’s here.

You’re sitting here arguing for the sake of arguing when you obviously don’t care about this either way. If you’re not a completionist you won’t understand the mindset of one, and judging by your responses you do have absolutely no clue.

Now if people who only go in here with the intent’s of trolling because they couldn’t care less about the subject should think twice and maybe move on to something that actually matters to them.

If this stays in the game it will turn off most of the completionists from sticking around. Temporary achievements are absurd enough to begin with, but to require people to play six hours a day without an exception repeating the same tasks amazes me. That is what is the issue. If their intent is to have it this way to make it “harder” to get achievement points. Then I’m fine with it, I’ll just go and do something else with my time, and ArenaNet will lose alot of their most loyal players from it, trust me.

Now if they actually want to make it more challenging to get achievement points, but in a more permanent manner (even in PvP). I’m listening and I think with some public interaction a very good new achievement model can be created, but from the lack of interaction we’ve seen so far from the devs with our group of players I don’t know if that’s even worth hoping for anymore.

And the argument that whoever cares for achievement points are just PvEers has already been proved wrong numerous times in this thread. In fact, I’d assume quite a few of them are better at it than some of the players posting in this thread judging by their knowledge of the game.

Meglobob.8620:

Don’t see a problem, you still only need to do 4 and all the old ones are still there…

Just giving achievement point hunters the chance to aquire more and become no. 1 achievement hunter, well burning off those who can’t handle more achievement points.

Its all good and very, very funny…lol

Anyone else noticed achievement point hunters rage so much, driving them mad endless farming out those achievement points everyday..lol

Following that argument you can add so many dailies you have no chance at completing them all, at which point the act of “completionism” isn’t even there because it is impossible to do so, thus turning off a lot of players. I don’t even know why you feel the need to comment when you obviously don’t even care one bit about achievement hunting or the point system in general. The fact that you come here to point out that you laugh at our misforune is what I find funny.

I’d also prefer it if dailies (and monthlies for that matter) gave 0 points but there was instead a different category for daily categories completed. Every day when you have 5/5 dailies complete you progress 1 to that one. Say it caps out at 500 or something so there is always x number of points available in the game and again makes it a lot more competitive.

ahuba.6430:

You ap farmers need to realize something. The Achievement points don’t belong to you, YOU made it YOUR obsession! Since achievement points now award skins, it’s no longer only interesting for people who farm it, there’s a reason for other people to get to 3k or 6k achievements, and among those people are the regular pvpers that deserver the skins just as much as you and for whom these new dailies are easy to complete and come naturally. Achievement points DO NOT belong to you. I’m pretty sure these dailies were made to rewards PVP PLAYERS, not you that already have 10k+ achievements, but THE PVP PLAYERS that are playing since release and have 2k achievement points.

There are plenty of other ways to do that more efficiently by adding permanent points into the system. Most pvp players won’t get the dailies on a daily basis either cause of how time consuming they are, and I say that cause I am a pvp player who also happens to like achievements.

If it really is Anet’s intent to discourage an entire community of completionists then so be it. But what you say is for us the same as it would be to add PvE events to sPvP matches just because PvP isn’t specifically for PvP players, they wanted to give PvE players something in PvP too. Now perhaps that makes you realise how absurd and pointless your statement is.

Cush.4063:

No, you guys really don’t get it. I understand that that’s what makes this game fun to you. People do have their own ways of having fun. So I get you on that point. The point I’m talking about is that you don’t have to flame the devs and rage quit and go all chaotic over it. These posts are what make the forums not that great to be in. All I am encouraging is a respectful but forceful post. I apologize for saying the things I did about being childish and such, it’s just that these are the only forums I delve into on this site, the “pvp forums”. And after spending so much time in them and all I see is post after post about how the devs suck, the game is bad, I’m quitting, etc. it just dampens the game and the forums. This is just the thread I chose to take it out on and so I apologize for being disrespectful myself. I just feel that things would go a lot less ignored with no posts from the devs if it wasn’t a flame fest. I feel the devs respond more in threads where there is a problem and they can respond without being attacked or the feeling of being attacked as well as it makes the forums a more enjoyable place to be. Anyways, that’s my 2 cents.

Cush

I would say we are putting forward pretty valid arguments and concerns, I don’t see very much direct flaming. I’m 4400 hours into the game, involved in all three gametypes. 70000 kills in WvW, Ransacker in sPvP (without glory farm) with peak ranks of top 50 in both soloQ and teamQ, Dungeon Master and experienced with speed clears. On top of that I have pretty much every achievement I can do so far in the Living Story. If I didn’t care about the game I wouldn’t go on to the forums and express my concerns about the game. But here I am, because I truly do care. I have also done so before. If you look at my post history you’ll see a thread I made about the achievement system over a year ago. I always had a bit of faith that someday it could change for the better. However, over the past few months I’ve only seen it change for the worse. If valid points can’t get our concerns across, and there is no change to be seen. Then how can you expect us to tolerate it over such an extended period of time when there are more new projects around the corner that may reel us in with new hope of finding a good MMO achievement system for once?

Since launch we have only had one update that did anything to better the system, and that was capping Hobby Dungeon and Agents of Entropy back in April. It still has a long way to go and we could get it there if the devs would listen to us.,

Sudden.8729:

I’ll get off my soapbox on it. As stated by many, if you don’t care about AP then you shouldn’t be in this thread.

Before I leave the thread I will say this. If you want to be at the top of an AP leaderboard, knock yourself out, but don’t bash a developer / company because they don’t make it easy, it is not their job to make everything easy. You put that goal their for yourself, as did everyone else who wants to be at the top of a leader board. If it was too easy, people would QQ that everyone is at the top, right?

Anet is kitten ed if it is too easy, kitten ed if it is too hard. GL Dev’s, thanks for the update and future ones (figure you guys deserve atleat one person not flaming you for Wintersday)

This isn’t about easy or hard, it’s about time. I’d love to see more hard permanent achievements. I’m just strongly against temporary achievements especially when it gets as ridiculous as it is now. Requiring 6 hours of play every single day, no exceptions. There are other ways to make it “harder” that would be much more acceptable.

Sudden.8729:

Is it, guess they need to fix the word “Infinite” then huh? facepalm

It is infinite but after 125 repeats it awards 0 points. You still unlock it every time.

Sudden.8729:

Its 4 Ap??? Really, people…

Here is what it did do. It allowed people who actually play PVP strictly, rather than PVE, a chance to get FOUR more points a day. Is it big, no. That is what is ok for all you achievement farmers out their, it is not that big.

Let’s break this down for the QQ’ers. 8 Wins. More than likely you will NOT get eight wins in a row in a timely fashion. This type of progress would probably take a minimum of 3 hours, more than likely longer. Now for you AP Farmers out their, what could you do for three hours to supplement the FOUR points you would be missing. Maybe do what you appear to desire to do the most, go farm. Agent of Entropy is 2 AP every time you salvage 200 things. I bet in approximately 3 hours you can get 400 items to salvage. Bet you will make more money than the PVP’er too. The PVP player loses out on both time and probably money in this scenario. I hope they had more fun though

It’s four points. Its not the end of the world. Suck it up, don’t get your panties in a bunch over something PVP’ers can get over PVE’ers. PVE’ers still get the better end of the deal in regards to reward for time.

Agents of Enropy is capped at 250 points, Hobby Dungeon Explorer is capped at 200 points. Every permanent achievement is capped. Dailies however isn’t. 4 points adds up, if you ignore this for a year that is a whopping 1460 points. Assuming nobody does this except a guy ranked 600th on EU ladder, he could climb all the way to top 60 with these points. Also I am an sPvPer myself, I do PvP alot, but I do not see any realistic chance of me getting these PvP achievements because I rely on four other players to be online and available at the exact same times I am. It does not happen every day, and it does not guarantee me 8 wins in a day. And even if it did that means to theoretically max out the number of points you can get in this game you would have to spend approximately 6 hours every day of every week. 42 hours a week, on doing the same repetitive tasks. Now tell me that is fun. If you are a regular PvPer that doesn’t care about achievement points tell me why these 4 points would make a difference for you. In the bigger picture it really won’t make a difference, because you as most other players wouldn’t get these points consistantly every day unless you really set that as a goal and was ready to invest so many hours into the game. If that’s something you would like to do, then kudos to you. But many of us are not prepared to sacrifice that amount of time for something that is already taking up a big chunk of people’s days doing the same repetitive tasks.
You also do not seem to realise completionist doesn’t equal PvEer.

Cush.4063:

Wow, I feel really embarassed to be a gw2 player reading this thread. For one I don’t think it’s THAT big of a deal but the fact that everyone is rage quitting here is pathetic. Seriously, everyone is acting like a 12 year old and flaming and spamming their hate. All you really need to do is write a respectful comment with your criticism to put the point across. The way you all act is really childish.

“Anet, is there anyway that you could please reduce the amount of wins it costs for a daily as it seems it is a bit much and hard to achieve. Reasons being…..”

All you all had to say really. Tbh, it’s only a daily and I’m sure you can complete enough of these dailies in a month in order to get your monthly. Not to mention it seems as though Anet is trying to push getting together as a team which I think is a great idea although it might be a little rough. I think they could reduce the team wins down to 1 and give you the amount of points for 2 wins in that one win. Is it really that bad that you guys don’t want to play as a team? It’s a lot more fun playing in a team just to let you know. shakes head

You do not seem to understand that this is the tip of the iceberg. There has been complaints about daily achievements by the achievement community for a very, very long time. They already tried this exact thing before and removed it. It did not work then and it will not work now. It has nothing to do with not wanting to have a team and play sPvP. It has something to do with having to spend 6 hours a day repeating the same tasks to be able to “complete” all dailies. With all the complications of having a team, does getting them together and playing for several wins every day without exceptions sound simple to you?

People get enjoyment out of games in different ways, if you go on about being embarassed about other people because they enjoy a game in a different manner then that is your problem. I don’t go about telling other communities how they should do their thing. This is a problem that only affects the achievement community, and after well over a year of being ignored this is the last straw that is pushing a lot of us across that line where we simply do not want to put up with the nonsense anymore.

Now the way you talk down on other players is what is truly pathetic. If the topic has no interest to you, you should move on. I don’t see you gaining anything from having these achievements in the game so I don’t see the reason why you should argue against those of us that have problems with it.

Oraith.1732:

“Please adress this ASAP” “Need fix ASAP” “Plz anet make this easier ASAP”

Jesus Christ guys. People that do a mix of soloQ and teamQ are going to get slightly more daily AP than others. Why the hell is that a problem? Because you won’t be able to keep up? Sorry but if you aren’t able to adapt/do different content, why the hell do you call yourself an AP hunter? Just call yourself a AP farmer, because that’s all you are willing to do, farm. If they made more achieves obtainable in kitten y ezpz hotjoins you wouldn’t be complaining. Why? Because hotjoins are easy, where as teamQ/soloQ you have to try to actually win.

Guess what guys, it’s called soloQ for a reason, you can queue solo. Yes, you are going to lose some matches which may prolong the process, but hey what’s an achievement if you aren’t working for it? As for teamQ, it is almost as easy as getting a dungeon group together. Find four people to do it with and run the queues (you can even duo Q if you want). Again, if you and you partners aren’t that great it will take some work but if you really want the extra AP to compete then you will have to get better and learn the game-type.

Also do you really think Anet is that stupid that they think extra AP points are going to bring in esports? You think that Anet thinks the old teams are going to go “Hey guys look you can get extra AP by doing pvp dailies, lets go back to the game!”. No, they won’t, and arena net doesn’t believe that they will come back for that reason. I hope that the AP hunters that are willing to do more content will rise to the top due to the amount of QQ, because they deserve it.

If it was permanent achievements I would not mind. However now you will need to spend 5-6 hours of your day on repeating the same content every single day. Why would anyone want to tolerate this? We’re talking quality of life here. Sure make achievement points hard to obtain, but do permanently instead of forcing someone to do the same stuff every day.

Alot of people are completionists, this is what keeps them playing. When the point comes where they realise.. “You know what, why shuld I tolerate this anymore?” and stop, they will also quit the game. And as you cans ee from the topics arising lately this does look like it is a majority of the games completionists.

I do enough sPvP as it is. I enjoy it and I don’t mind doing it. But having to hop on and do 8 wins a day sounds completely absurd. Currently 13th in solo queue EU (although I must admit I don’t really value that at all) and at the same time an achievement hunter (fairly behind on permanent points cause I’m a procrastinator) but I have done most dailies and monthlies since launch.

It has nothing to do with adapting to different content. There are already numerous WvW, PvE and sPvP achievements that you will have to do if you want to get anywhere on the leaderboards, so your point there is completely flawed. If you aren’t a part of the completionist community I don’t really see why you decide to comment here because you obviously just come in here to say we are all wrong in how we play the game and that this is how completionists should play. There are plenty of other achievement systems out there that look much more appealing at this point and if Anet decides to give us the easy solution to drop out and find something else to do that is their loss. That is also why we try to give them a heads up that we as a community aren’t very satisfied with these changes and something has to happen before it is too late.

Look at our arguments, tell us why these achievements should be in the game. That is when I will listen to your comment. Because frankly, I don’t see any particular reason for any community in this game to have these achievements.

Awe.1096:

I would really appreciate if someone from Arena could drop a few words regarding this. If this design will stay in permanently? Are you happy with how it works? What was your design goal and/or intention? If you could confirm this now, it would save me a month or so of playing something that I am bound to quit anyway. Becouse if nothing will be said about it until next release I will just assume its going to stay like this and I will quit anyway. For sure I am not going to buy any gems until I know how this will end up so its not like there is something to gain for Arena.

Look, I know this is your game. You can do whatever you want with it. Its fine. I would just be really greateful if you could acknowledge something that breaks the game for me and few other completionists (as apparent from several threads about AP dailies overall). If you believe that your design is for the greater good and players like me are an acceptable collateral then fine. I will accept that and try to move on. I just really think that I deserve at least some form of answer after all the fanatic support I gave to Arena and GW over the years.

I would also appreciate if people could refrain from throwing aggresive remarks about how stupid/pathetic/whatever my playstyle is. There are many playstyles out there. And this one is mine. I dont judge others.

I’ve thought about quitting the game countless times before, but I always logged in to do the dailies and it kept me playing. This however is not something I’m gonna waste 5 hours of my day every day to do, any day now this adventure may be over.

Also agreeing to this, I feel the achievement system in the game still has a long way to go and this would be a step in the right direction.

If you don’t care for the achievement points leaderboards, there is absolutely no reason for you to post in this thread. There are people out there who do, and I’d be very surprised if any of them would go out and support this. I am a dedicated sPvP player aswell as an achievement hunter. And for all it’s worth I wouldn’t mind more achievement points available in sPvP, but in permanent categories rather than dailies. tbh. By the time you get any of these “optional” dailies you will already have your daily complete anyway so the only reason I can see for it being added is to add more achievement points into the daily cycle. It makes no sense whatsoever to do so. It doesn’t add anything of value to the sPvP community and it just adds alot of frustration and annoyance to the achievement hunting community.

I haven’t been able to read everything here so some of these things may have been mentioned before, but these are all the functions I personally miss in the current commanding system.

First of all I think there should be two seperate commander options. A public commander and a guild/squad commander. I’ll go into detail about what I would like to see with both starting with squad commander.

Squad Commander:

- Party Composition Control:
A squad commander can open so many new possibilities for guilds to coordinate things. If a guild’s raid leader gets full control over party compositions with the ability to form new parties and move members this could make life alot easier for alot of guilds.

- Squad Overview
If we had a way to fit in a small window in the UI with squad health bars that could be a really helpful feature especially when it comes to downed state ressing but also when to unleash aoe healing skills. Have to keep in mind that this is something that could look better on paper than in game though, I’d at least like to see it tried out.

- Visibility
Whether or not the guild commander would like to be visible to other commanders or maybe even regular players on the map or not should be an optional feature aswell.

Public Commander:

- Objectives:
A commander needs to be able to set priority structures both for defensive and offensive purposes. If he is able to do this it should also show up on the map for everyone.

- Scout System:
A new way to incorporate scouting with the commander system could also be that the commander would have extensive knowledge about all the structures on the map updated everytime a member of the server interacts with a scout panel or something in that structure. The longer it takes between updates the more rewarding for whoever does the dirtywork, that way if 5 players use the same tower it won’t be as rewarding. It should give a brief overview over siege, upgrades and damage done to the structure. (Wishful thinking but I can’t think of an abusefree way to incorporate would be to reward players refreshing siege. Although players could build random siege to abuse this. Even if the commander was given the power to value different siege differently in the tower anyone could get a tag and abuse it. If solved though it could make an interesting feature). There could also be a way to do this for offensive purposes as to scouting gate/wall percentages and upgrades on enemy towers if a good way to incorporate it is found.

- Roaming Squads:
A roaming squad should have the ability to join on the commander squad (if they wish to do so) to show where they are on the map to the commander. That way the commander and the sniping party or havoc squad can avoid running into the same camps and objectives and maybe coordinate things in between each other better. It could also make for a way to use the prioritized structure thing where he could highlight a structure that specifically needs to not have any dolyaks walk in.
One way to incorporate the scouting system with the roaming system is to have roaming groups be able to report zergs and enemy structure statuses when they see them. So the commander can get a brief overview over where the zerg has been spotted. However I could see how this would be problematic to incorporate, another appealing idea to me though.

This is just about everything I could remember off the top of my head that I had on my mind about the commander system. I may post a follow up if I recall something else at a later time. I’m sure there are alot of other good ideas here aswell that should cover most of it.

As in response to some of the questions asked in the thread:

How often do people actually join squads and use the features that are there? (4 different way point markers, /supplyinfo). What would make you join squads more?

From my experience, almost never. I don’t see an easy way for a public commander to enforce this in the future either. But a guild commander I could see getting this to work if a guild commander system is implemented. And as far as I know /supplyinfo works regardless in a small radius around the commander so it was never really needed before.

How much is spies a problem with commander system?

Should the commander icon be shown above the commanders head to the commander?

I don’t see any actual reason for this, as you already have the icon on your buff bar if you are tagged up.

Should we allow a WvW upgrade to see enemy commanders (not on the map just on screen) ?

I honestly don’t think this is a good idea, it’s obvious enough who the commander is by watching the front line of the other zerg. The amount of focus a commander would get from this would probably not be very good. Single target focus on commander with everything from moa bird to chain immobilizes is not the way to kill a zerg imo.

1. Hard Mode dungeons, and other challenging 5-man group content.

Whenever I do any dungeon with a competent group it is such a breeze, there is no sense of achievement in completing any content in the game as of now. That is a shame if you ask me.

2. Inspect function with API.

This in a manner so the community can set up lookups and profiles for players down to which achievement he has and hasn’t done. As someone who is a sucker for statistics, this is something I have always wanted to see happen. It wouldn’t be such a hard feature to add either.

3. More longterm progression achievements.

Something so you feel like you’re always working towards something. Capping gathering achievement at 500 gatherings is silly. Why is there no dye collector achievement? The more there is the better. Some ideas of other things that could’ve been added is waypoint spender (money spent on waypoints) and total kills. Everything that is easily completeable and comes naturally without you seeking it up yourself should have more tiers. Split the leaderboards into daily/monthlies and permanent achievement points aswell so doing permanent achievements actually matter, or at the very least number 2 could be a way for the community to set up their own leaderboards with an API.

1. Improved Commander functions. Including Guild Commander & Squads and optional UIs to see and setup parties for your guild and so on.

2. Rethink the entire siege game.

Numbers has to be gone over to avoid the hour long stale sieges that go nowhere and force people to grab everyone on the zone to brute force.
This means changing damage numbers and range of siege, also possibly siege capping areas faster. Gate and wall health should also be decreased a tiny bit on the reinforced/fortified levels to account for this, something that could be discussed is whether or not facerubbing should be a viable way to take something down if this is done properly. It would also be preferable if a keep’s supply was split into a storage and a depot, with the depot working much like a supply camp only letting you use up to 100 within a certain time frame.
Fixing waypoint timer to be refreshed everytime it is tagged and not only the first time it’kitten after it’s uncontested again would make this part of WvW alot more enjoyable aswell.

3. Proper leaderboards and achievements.

These are needed to give long term goals to individual players. As of right now there is very little meaning to playing other than the current week’s score, maybe a little impact on your server’s rating. Alot of players don’t even care about that and just enjoy fighting. There is very little in the sense of progression, especially now that you can just buy ranks. For players such as myself having leaderboards would be enough sense of progression and a nice tool to compare to friends and other players in your server community. Friendly rivalries and so on. Everything from world rank, to amount of kills, dolyak escorts and keep defenses, the more the merrier.

Another thing I would like to add, to make the WvW game more interesting there has to be sacrifices made by having the entire zone in one full zone group. One way I think this could be done is by changing how the waypoint mechanic works. You should not be able to waypoint anywhere unless you are dead or standing at spawn. It makes the map so much smaller and easily accessible that doing anything in the smaller group becomes literally impossible unless you can outskill them. Splitting up groups could add new layers of tactics and cross-guild cooperation more important than it is today. The maps are already very small, but this makes matters worse.

bob.8632:

Rigel.5789:

Also not a big fan of how the warbanners work currently, as this thread has shown alot of frustration for.

All this thread has proven is that people will whine about anything….

You could start a thread about there being too many ambient creatures in WvW and people will argue for and against….Don’t get too caught up in forums being worth too much regarding reality.

Are you saying people will argue about everything as an argument to never change anything? I see threads about random things all the time, but they tend to get only a reply or two. This already has over 100 so it’s obviously something people are upset about. I’m also expressing my support for a change on this matter. If you can lock down a keep with 10 warriors specced to revive lords that is enough proof of a broken mechanic for me. Holding a circle is much like king of the hill. Except in this case you can stall the actual king for well over an hour by having a warrior go invulnerable and use a skill to reset all the progress. It’s basically kamikaze tactics, except you have infinite lives. Why should this be viable?

I’d prefer it if waypoints had a seperate timer from the defend event, one that was refreshed every time the keep is tagged. It should also not be visible as that would make it way too easy to figure out which attacks are simple tags and which are actual sieges. If this is changed, the same group can’t port back in every three minutes to banner over and over. Also another thing I personally would like to see, but I can imagine opinions are more split on is the removal of the ability to waypoint when you are alive (perhaps with an exception from spawn to a keep). I think letting people do this makes the maps much “smaller” in a sense. It also gives the big blobs alot more mobility and you won’t really need more than one group to cover the entire map. Especially if you have three waypoints, with the maps already being small to begin with this is a big issue in my opinion.

Also not a big fan of how the warbanners work currently, as this thread has shown alot of frustration for. There are many fixes that could change outcomes of these type of battles. Even if they changed it so bannering the lord does not reset the capturing progress it would probably not be as big of an issue. Either way this is definitely not helping out WvW gameplay. I think it’s a bad mechanic to rely on and it does not promote “actual” WvW play. I’d like to see this uproar lead to some sort of dev response about the obviously broken mechanics, if they actually want to make WvW a more enjoyable experience it should be pretty high on their agenda to fix what is already broken rather than fix what something that isn’t.

I think something has to change in the mindset of the developers if they want Guild Wars 2 to still be running a few years down the line. I haven’t been posting on the forums for a good while now, and I see assumptions being made that those of us that aren’t posting are agreeing with the developers. That is very untrue, I’ve personally pretty much given up trying after all the nonsense and ignoring I have seen over the past year. If you go back to Guild Wars 1 now, who is keeping that game alive? It is the hardcore players that are still playing. In Guild Wars 2, who do you think lead guilds, communities, server alliances and so on? It’s hardcore players, whether it is PvP players or PvE. These individuals do what they can to make the game an enjoyable experience for their guild members, the alliances makes WvW more enjoyable for the casuals. Events that are created help keep the game interesting. With the really casual direction this game has taken those players will be long gone down the line. There will be noone to keep the communities and guilds going. There will be noone creating the fun for the more casual players and there will be a domino effect.

I have seen so much ignorance and middle fingers from both lairs, but I think ArenaNet has to acknowledge what is going on. This is not good at all, the game’s developers and it’s playerbase shouldn’t be fighting each other. Yet it feels like ArenaNet at this point looks at a large chunk of it’s players as an enemy they have to get rid of. All this because we see things differently. After a year of frustration with the game’s direction, this is it. I can’t let it pass by anymore. I want the game to succeed, but at this point I am seriously worried. This thread is an excellent example of what has been going on in the shadows for a long, long time. If nothing is done, who knows where the game may end up.

Deniara Devious.3948:

Hmm. Double threads on same topic?

A big disappointment again. No chances to win this match up.

Arenanet, stop being so uncaring towards your player base. Also those who haven’t won deserve a fair chance to win. Developers please explain us this: Why Desolation is constantly (6+ months) being matched against servers with superior coverage and numbers?

Well, at least the enemy has higher quality players on the average and tons of sturdy tanks. But I am gonna hate that lag as both German servers blob so much there isn’t a corner in the maps without lag.

Ironic thing is we are actually in tier 3 this week, and our rating has been going up for the past two weeks. This new rating system is simply taking too long to even things out. A simple winner goes up, loser goes down system would’ve been so much more effective.

Just to throw the stats out there, this will probably be our 8th straight 3rd place and our 22nd week running without a matchup win. You’d think it was quite obvious we didn’t belong here.

I was enthusiastic when this week started. We had some good fights, it was tight and intense for a while. That enthusiasm is all gone now. Sort of back to the situation we had in tier 1 with Vizunah. Having two servers that didn’t have the numbers outside primetime isn’t all that interesting. Alright, we may a few hours at night where we manage to get some points with some tiny groups scattered about, but even that seems to slip away now. At least there is no point in pulling those extra hours anymore.

Waking up to tier 3 towers, keeps. Trying to do something about it, but then get countered by a group of 60 SFR. People here can’t be bothered trying anymore, you are no fun. At this rate your odds of facing Vizunah again next week will drastically increase. Weekend wasn’t bad and it was fun while that lasted. I’m not the one to judge or blame players in particular, but I want you to know.

It’s been a refreshing reset night so far. Having a blast again for the first time in very, very long. Hopefully we can have a good, even matchup. Having charged my batteries over so many weeks, it’s finally time to pull some allnighters again. It will sure be interesting. Good luck everyone.

Zog.3954:

It is a bit unbalanced in tier 1 now, but a month ago it was not. Let’s not forget that. Now it is the time for other servers to challenge Vizunah and see if they have what it takes to make tier 1 more even.

Challenge what? How? By doing a zerg aswell and pressing 1 each 10s because of the lag? Going with all your people if a 10m group attacks an objective on another map?
No one wants to play vs them because there is no fun in that. I prefer killing pve mobs. Its just as hard as killing viz players but w/o the lag.

Anet should weaken viz as they did with other t1 servers in the past.

Smaller guild groups have wiped their blobs before, and if the problem is their playstyle then come up with some constructive critism so Anet can change their game instead. We’ve seen other servers challenge them before, so thinking nobody will ever do it again is a bit naive.

Vizunah has had superior numbers before but it seemed as if alot of them quit during the “rough” times. It will even out over time, untill the next call to arms if there will be any. I don’t think of it as an issue. Forcing people to move or preventing people from playing certain hours is not a good solution in my opinion. Sure they have good coverage, let the other servers with good coverage face them and try their luck. We know the scores as of now have alot to do with coverage, but if you can get a matchup with quite even coverage that means you can get good fights whether you play night, morning, afternoon or primetime. That is the purpose of having the tiers, facing two servers you can fight whenever you want. It’s the even matchups that make epic memories and fights you will never forget.

It is a bit unbalanced in tier 1 now, but a month ago it was not. Let’s not forget that. Now it is the time for other servers to challenge Vizunah and see if they have what it takes to make tier 1 more even.

DevonCarver.5370:

Lelith.2916:

Thank you the response.

Let me address your concern there. It is not the fact that a server dominates so handily, it is the fact it happens for weeks on end, and the Glicko system you use does not allow for shifts in population like we are seeing happen in T1 fast enough. A simple 1up 1 down system would, I believe suit everyone, in any tier, in any region, and definately avoid any stale matchups as servers would be more mobile.

Without going into specifics as we are still testing out some of the changes, we are looking to address the problems with our implementation of Glicko, especially the fact that matchups are not varying enough to provide accurate ranking data.

Is there any plan for any temporary solution while you are working on this? If not is there any ETA or an approximation of when we will see any changes? Our servers are still losing players as we speak, and we of course would like to bring back some good news to give people hope again.

Thank you for the response, I appreciate it. There are simple temporary solutions like winner goes up, loser goes down that will prevent servers from getting stuck in tiers though. I hope this is a solution you have considered using, atleast while tiers are getting balanced out again after the exodus. It would be much appreciated.

A response would atleast remove all uncertainty around the subject, the uncertainty alone is a tiny bit frustrating. And I totally agree with you scanz, it would be a bit refreshing to see some new names and tags around.

Dayra.7405:

Still the current WP block has 2 disadvantages which I do not like, and that could be fixed as proposed in https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/Why-is-SM-waypoint-contested-all-the-time/1810315
- a single hit on the outter-door by a thief can block teleports for 3min
- reinformencent (and resurrection) is possible in the 1sec Open every 3min.

I think perma-block during real fights combined with resistance against pure-block attack is superior to the current system.

I think it would be nice if everytime someone hit something it reset the timer back to 3 minutes. Although they would have to redesign the entire “Repel the enemy attackers” system or give that a timer of it’s own. Whether they should make the waypoint timer visible or not is another thing that can be discussed.

Looking at the current matchup scores for the week, from the looks of it every single NA tier remains the same next week. On EU it’s a little bit different as of now because of all the people transfering, but just look at the scores required of tier 1 and tier 2 for a single tier 1 server to drop. It simply is ridiculous. And even if it looks like SFRs situation will be solved this week, Desolations may still be around for a bit, chances are it will happen again to someone else aswell. It’s a bit disappointing that we haven’t even had one official reply by now.

I do personally believe the “winner goes up, loser goes down” idea will make some matches a bit more spicy. There will always be something to fight for, and a reason to go into WvW. Every single weeks matchup will matter, and you won’t have to wait for five whole weeks before you get anywhere.

AndrewSX.3794:

Meglobob.8620:

AndrewSX.3794:

Meglobob.8620:

There is also a greater chance of Viz being matched up with a server that can give them a decent fight…

Point is, there isn’t any.

Due to superior coverage and numbers, and a wvw heavily unbalanced in favouring PvDooring at night and bunkering during prime time as best point scoring system, VS can’t be matched by any EU server.

And the only oe who was managing to counter VS (with a different tactic tho), SFR, got bombed by Anet.

Sad state for EU ladder, but again, i’m only listing facts.

Actually, no one knows if another server/s could match Viz because Viz has not fought anyone other than sfr & des for a long time…

Two servers with populations more equal to Viz might be able to compete…both sfr & des are currently outnumbered 3 to 1…

Of course 3 high population servers together would create a awfully long queue to actually play WvW, and zergs almighty…

Population is meaningless.

Deso is almost full. Blacktide, almost at the bottom of the ladder, is High. SFR was medium even when hammering T1.

Ofc we’re talking about WvW population, but the problem is always the same: coverage. In current WvW setup (and vs Vizuna especially) numbers in prime time are meaningless.

And imo, if there’s a server who is even remotely close to match VS coverage, we would know already or it would be high in ladder already…

It’s a bit of a shame that certain top tier servers are cheap to transfer to and some low tier servers are expensive to transfer to. I mean with guesting you won’t really transfer for PvE so they should think about WvW population a bit with this.