Guild Wars 2

If you ever huntered in wow, or any other game/class that utilized jump shot techniques youve already got the skills for withdraw. Someone above mentioned it.

I do wish it would clear condition>heal as opposed to other way around.

Stooperdale.3560:

There’s a big learning curve going from open world thief to dungeon thief and I’m afraid you’re squishy until you’re near the top of the curve. Situationally, smoke screen becomes a top tier skill. Situationally, withdraw becomes an excellent heal. You’ve just got to test things out. There isn’t one solution to everything.

To get started, stick with the shortbow and then look for opportunities to ghost into the edges of melee when you feel safe and you can contribute. Try not to burn all your endurance on dodging when you’ve got evades/shadow steps available from skills. Look for opportunities to keep mobs under control with blind and cripple.

This in a nutshell. I find zerg harassment easier than dungeons. Constantly switching utilities, etc, and trying to find the sweet spot with melee/ranged.

I had to say, i havent even linked any vids. Im just a thief. My only other 80 is an ele, and i know most mesmer tactics(still my roughest 1v1). I was someone in wow who spent 800+ gold on respecs before dual specs. With cheap respecs/spvp here i just have worked on thief since shortly after release.

That said, im only okay. I get into it too much and start making mistakes. I kittening love thief though, and even if im the last one left, i’ll be here talking to myself.

Yeah, its my least favorite. Paired with omnoms and pve event farming where you can maintain high hit volume is nice. Also trops used to trigger it, but i havent used it in quite a while so not sure if it triggers like it used to.

All in all id say we have some of the most well balanced heals!

I really dig them both honestly.

I didnt forget som…

I should clarify. Map it before you enter dub v dub.

Also.

(Begins to cast his)
RAISE MY ARMS ALL BIG LIKE
(Headshot, pulled/pushed)
SS
SR
(Pulled out)
Die.

Also with a 4 second stealth that will cleanse twice. It pops immediately after stealth activation and on second #4. With 3 sec stealth just 1 at intro to stealth.

Step 1: map turn 180 to something accessible.
Step 2: be running away, stop and hit said key simultaneously.
Step 3: withdraw immediately after.
Step 4: use said key again and continue, alternatively you can hold right click to control facing.

Its not random – you ALWAYS roll opposite your facing.

The pve side of things that isn’t such an issue.

using p/p effectively in pvp requires a lot of situational awareness (how many dodges do they have left, have they popped aegis recently, has their cleanse you know they are packing been blown, etc etc), and a lot of premeditation on lining up cc through venoms/traps(yes I said it)/stealth openers/switches. It is very easy to shut down if miscalculated or what not, but in a situation where you can not close distance or put enough ranged pressure in return – they generally are set to be able to uphold that unload for at least more than you are gonna be able to dodge. Anytime you team with a baiter with some CC it becomes childs play though (another thief taunting with sb or p/d is amusing when you finally close on them and you get chain bv’d and unloaded/backstabbed on by that one and his p/p buddy that was los’ing his nameplate) :P

( I fell for it … ouch)

poison combo + cluster unreleased is aoe weakness, useful for the ranged packs.

also, switch a utility to the smokescreen. should give you enough time to deal with the melee mobs. It’s also a blind pulse like pistol5.

point blank is the best option for dps on shortbow. spamming cluster (unless the field under them is more valuable! then it’s just spam so it doesn’t split into 3!)

Setting IS as a getaway before you engage is nice(no target) – can casually stroll up to them and get the ini back in that time.

lol, I skimmed the thread, and I saw “also:” or some variant about 4 times from me, and a few times from others.

What I meant about AR heal was:

Use heartseeker(3ini). Assuming the wiki has it right on the heal coefficient(with 0 healing):
3 ini translates to 207 heal. I know it’s right about it landing the heal after the animation of the skill. That was part of my problem with it, the delayed pop on it, I want it going on as I am using the skill.

So yeah, 10 unloads is ~3450ish heal. Not bad overtime, just felt too clunky for me to lean toward it. I suck at clarifying. What I was originally trying to get across about the amount spent/used whatever was that it goes off the base ini cost of the skill (heartseeker 3, PW 5, etc), NOT what it seems like it costs due to regen/ini returns from crit/signets etc (a cnd is 6 ini – some builds get 2 back because it stealths them – was just trying to say it would heal for 6 worth not 4).

Also keep in mind, if you interrupt a skill (that you are using, to clarify) before it goes off the ini doesn’t come off the bar (only effective for ones with more than a .25 cast time really).

s/p is great for clutch interrupts, the AA being just as good as PW is disheartening, but hey. that’s more Ini for ranged interrupts/blinds. I never was a fan of stationary evades, but I think I mentioned that once.

Since they lowered CD on blinding powder a while back it became an instant favorite.

And I disagree p/p requires 30/30/x/x/x; looks like Silver’s making it work

I will second Ambush trap is great shenanigans for pve.

passingthedoobie.jpg
feelsgoodman.jpg

Encore. Encore.

unlike those two classes where timing is crucial, with a thief – timing is your life. switch up your rhythm and mess around with it more(weapons/traits/builds/etc). Once you find your tempo thief becomes second nature.

And hey, dying is half the fun.

It won’t get you kills in WvW often, but you can delay the taking of supply camps until reinforcements or respawns occur (or just stop the cap in a 1v1, or 1v2 scenario with them not coordinating against you, obviously you aren’t going to stop a zerg flipping), and still blow up yaks(soloing camps is tougher than some other specs). I’ve stopped 3 man parties long enough to get backup. Roaming isn’t terrible, but the true roaming specs can hand it to you if you get caught off guard still. Whoever mentioned support is along the right track. If you have a set few you run with it’s very viable, but then again, any spec is in that setting.

Learned something new, I always thought if the ICD kicked in for a swap sigil, or proc sigil, neither of those types could proc again til ICD cleared. I feel like a dummy (my kitten testing was a few minutes in the mists on this particular subject, lol).

we hear both sides of the coin on assassin’s reward (I prefer the perma-vigor – usually with bountiful theft as well :P). lol, I never liked it myself possibly even in the high ini usage scenarios, but I imagine he will try it out and make his own feel of it. I am glad some people like it though.

Yes, inf. signet is a stunbreaker, but you have to use it wisely. It will SS you to your target, thus putting you right in front of 100blades or some other devastating ability, you have to have end to dodge out real quick, or quick targetting to get something afar to step to.

Also, unless you gear for more condition damage, +5% damage would probably net better results if you circle strafe/daze/party with someone else taking some heat. though caltrops are a great relatively free cripple. just giving you another view.(edit: was talking about trops on dodge, vs. the 5% from side/back).

also, DS isn’t a stunbreaker, just stability, and unless you cancel DS, you’re in that animation, generally as long as the buff. It is probably the best projectile reflection.

Worse to worse, you can drop a signet for SS and that gives you mobility/condition cleanse(3).

also: props on masterworking it – it’s only a little less effective than exotic and hella cheaper (though you’ll certainly notice the difference in power once you make the switch). I love it for just getting a feel – between that and spvp, I can flesh out builds and test all I’d like, with only slight reduction in true power.

Also, in wvw, I’ve never been a fan of roaming with s/p, though that’s because I don’t like stationary evades (great evade in the circle of death!), and even stealstep/mugging to complete the full chain of PW, it just is as easy to counter as br/frenzy/100b.

SB is mainly your escape/zerg/tower defense/siege tool. If you aren’t worried about those (running from losing battles – still possible, but difficult with your limited access to stealth). Don’t forget you don’t need a target to prep shadow return with the sword as well…

Sorry I ramble a great deal.

SoM vs Withdraw

I think I mentioned I am not as large of a fan of SoM, but it is obviously well incorporated in this build. that with the heal on crit food, pairs nicely. You would have to weigh out the loss of might stacks/ini gain vs. the clutch immobile removal. Withdraw and SoM can heal the same number of times in 30s, though SoM will provide more overall healing I would think, even with popped downtimes. You can’t underestimate the power of consumables in wvw, there is 40% end regen food (+5s might on dodge, stacks with trait), the aforementioned heal on crit food (66% chance with an ICD I think, nifty visual too!), and some nice just straight up stat boosts.

Think I have rambled enough, good luck!

Always enjoy it in wvw myself. I use 0/10/0/30/30, or 0/20/0/30/20. Two stunbreaks, sig of agi. Withdraw, d/d+d/d or sb.

Btw, two sigil of energy’s dont stack.

Use 1, and force or accuracy. gain my gear is mixed so i keep +50%cd, 37-41 crit with traits, and bleeds ticking 74-80. Use +40% end food.

10/30/30/0/0 s/d+d/d or sb. HiS/BP/SR/preference(all really but you get my drift)/TG or DS.

Mug, +7crit from side/back/open/executioner, remove condition on stealth, regen (to you and allies)on stealth, regenerate health in stealth. Gear toward 3kpower, 30 minimum crit chance. as much crit damage as humanly possible. Healing isn’t lost on the build neither, since you already have a good boost from SA.

Mug is your burst, save it for 40-50% and can of course change some traits around, I think that’s around the most defensive side of the spec, can switch some traits around to make other things more viable and lose some condi removal (decent amount without traits being sword and depending on utilities – I used BP, SR, and SS. All for tac strike setups on heals, or clutch condition removals, otherwise it’s just playing with them with autoattack/dancing dagger/FS.

Can also try 10/30/0/15/15. you get more Ini, and more dodges, but less condi removal from traits, and less healing. You have higher base HP, but you need to be a lot more careful not to waste initiative on just anything willy nilly, IMO.

This is the beauty of initiative. You use it for what you have to. If you dont need to swap, dont. The build i’m having fun with is an endless dodge variant. 0/10/0/30/30. Initiative is never a problem and cds line up nicely. I use no stealth since i prefer the ldb evade/bleed. It also hits well directly, and backstabs land 2-4k crit. In it i get ini on swap(and if condi removal on self wasnt so imperative, would have endurance on swap sigil), ini +2/10sec, sometimes throw in shadowstep signet. I havent tried it with s/d a lot yet, but fs isnt as disorienting for an opponent as ldb or as useful an evade as sb(i miss the boon rip terribly!)

edit: I say I use no stealth, I do with an opportunistic backstab, and a cnd+stomp when I can, but mostly it’s to delay camp turnovers til reinforcements arrive, or get larger groups baited. It’s great 1v1 with all the evades. most classes weapon swap for cd’s and you’ve lost very little hp And my main point was(sorry I go off on tangents often): Weapon swapping for no reason is silly, weapon swapping for a benefit is not. Do what’s fun, and what you must to get what you want out of your thief. We are very versatile, despite what the doomsayers here might think.

yeah, improv will recharge a skill of one type, so you have a 1/4 in it clearing out your signets again. go to mists, spec for it, equip one of each type of utility listed, blow them all. steal from an NPC there. one will pop back up ready for use. I imagine if I always had one of each type it could be handy, but still too RNG for my tastes when there are other options.

Assassin’s Reward was always lackluster. It goes off base ini spent, not after what you’ll gain back and all that. It also triggers after the ini has been spent (and feels like after the animation of the skill). I haven’t really tried it when I had a bunch of healing on my gear, but it was so disappointing otherwise that I never felt like trying. :/

Sigil of Bloodlust on trash you can swap out.
Sigil of Energy (really fun with endless dodge builds)/battle(great on altruism/mightstacking builds)/etc won’t proc if you have like a chance on crit sigil or another swap sigil, and it has processed recently (only one I am not sure of is water, as it isn’t a chance on crit, just a chance, pretty sure it’s under that rule too though).

if you have say a dagger in offhand on both setups, with say, swap aoe bleeds targets, then if you have pistol MH on one set, and sword on another with both having force, you’ll get +5% damage on both sets, and a chance to crit bleed aoe on both swaps. I carry around too much gear :/.

Silver.4798:

You make a good case for quick recovery, I’ll give it a shot! What I was thinking with quick pockets was that the animation for PW and unload are rather long, so I was trying to turn that to my advantage. I wanted to slot my weapons with sigil of energy (returns 50% of my endurance upon switch) and sigil of battle (get 3 stacks of might for 20 seconds on switch) because I figure I’ll be rolling around quite a bit for defense (but will get a stack of might out of it each time!), so endurance will run out fairly quick. Sounded good in my head lol I’ll see if it works out in practice.

Regarding trickery, the preparedness minor treat is EXTREMELY attractive, kleptomaniac is pretty good too, but outside of slightly decreased steal recharge this build cannot use condition damage, so the caltrops I will drop from uncatchable and thrill of the crime major traits doesn’t synergize as well in this build as does mug and Improvisation major traits. If I had the trickery minor traits and the DA major traits it would be ideal!

What I was alternatively considering though was to not go into DA and go into SA instead for increased survivability and the stealth buffs, but then I don’t have a reliable way to stealth in this build. Although this ties into…

@ Sir Vincent III

I was thinking of S/D*** rather than S/P because of CnD, which would make going into SA viable rather than DA. But the reason why I went with pistol offhand is the AoE of PW and Blinding powder. P/P can’t really deal with mobs very well esp if they get close to me so I’m trying to think of ways to compensate.

• I don’t have a lot of experience with S/D, if you know of a way to deal with mobs with S/D, please let me know!

s/d: circle strafe kiting autoattacking. the sword autoattack is about as good as PW. FS from s/d has a boon remove(on 1st hit) and hits moderately okay if second hit lands. judicious use of cnd/tac strikes, and juking with IS/DD if needed for CD’s.

SA has tons more survival than DA(obviously), nothing that really synergizes well with s/p, and p/p, but meh.

also I may have misread again, but your sigils you were thinking about won’t stack. one proc on crit/hit weaponswap sigil will turn on the ICD for the other that didn’t proc for at least as long as the ICD of the first thing to proc. force is a good choice for damage once you figure out what you want on swap (energy would go well with your lack of dagger offhand build).

Decked.8274:

Basically now we have less DPS, Regeneration and Cond. Removal due to the 1 sec increase in the Revealed debuff.

~33% less. Play well, all is well until you meet the bad apples who want nothing to do with thief in PvE anyway.

Also, I’m still having a blast in PvE, myself. Stealth spec, or no stealth spec.

Arganthium.5638:

Silver.4798:

Humor me here, I know this is going against the grain quite a bit. A Thief who doesn’t stealth is a dead thief, right? RIGHT?

No, no it isn’t.

Here’s my critique of your build:
…

He’s right. Stealth != only means to survive.

x/x/0/30/x is perfectly viable. you’d be surprised the amount of zerg surfing you can do as an evade thief, with no stealth utilities/heals equipped. Sure a stealth build might can outlast you, but you are zerg surfing. Even in the best of circumstances your chances are low if anyone has a call target button (and people listen to that person). Regardless, even if not zerg surfing, I don’t understand. small scale and 1v1 any build really can work when you understand it and your enemy (hard counters aside).

/giggle, I read that it was a pve build, and still this came out as my response. Learn2read me!

Signet S/P is fun!

I would personally never run Improv. It’s too random for me, especially as you are trying to run a signet build and it’s got a 1/4 to recharge the signets (though great when it does!). I would go dual training. Unload/PW are both nice hitting with high power.

I am with Arg in Crit strikes as it’s heavily signet focused, and you’ll be wanting to pop them for them buffs.

In Acro I would completly get rid of Assassin’s reward and just use the vigor on heal or QR. I have never been a fan of AR’s lackluster slow effects and even though Arg has a point on quick pockets, but I find it infinitely more useful than AR. More INI is more damage, and evade windows, or blinds (on sword). You do have to be mindful of swapping as often as you can, but if you can do the melee/midrange dance well, it shouldn’t be too bad, especially since IS lines up with weapon swap rather well, and your offset is pistols.

with gear you listed, and your short recharge on malice, you’ll want to pop it if you think you need it. it won’t heal a great deal, and you’ll have a higher base hp, you’ll just have to go on the defensive more when it’s on CD, obviously. Omnoms make for great pairing with it.

Again, sorry my brain has turned everything into pvp the last few days.

ensoriki.5789:

I contend to this day that Potent Poison is an absolutely horrendous trait.
If you use D/ or Shortbow, you get all the poison you need honestly from an auto attack, Kleptomaniac or Choking gas.
If you use a S/ or P/ your options are kleptomaniac, Needle trap or spider venom. There is also the weapon sigil for poison but w/e.
Anyways basically on one end the poison application for thieves is very high, and on the other end it is very niche. Regardless extending poison by 33% does very little for you as a thief because it is so easily applied relatively speaking.

Sundering Strikes is another problematic trait because it’s based on criticals. If it was just a 40% chance I’d root for it more, but I think it’s rather alienating and almost encourages you not to take it.

S/D+(not SB, or D/x) can make use of it. 10/30/30, with sword, Mug is burst, can be a gap closer, but mostly it’s your burst. The venom will help for classes that use bunches of smaller heals, as you can normally interrupt the larger ones through tac strike. I will go with there are better options, myself.

I agree, Sundering Strikes is very underwhelming, especially when compared to some other traits in similar positions(of other classes). But hey, we have what we have, we have a suggestions forum. Making of use of what we have is all we can do until something is changed. Sundering strikes has the benefit of being RNG, which is also it’s drawback. If you don’t want poison removed, a sundering strike proc can keep it there just a moment longer (or blow their removal CD, and then not be able to touch the poison at all!).

I am a large fan of lotus poison. There isn’t a situation where I don’t want weakness on an enemy. We do have copious amounts of access to poison, vuln, and weakness (and to an extent, cripple). It just synergizes well with most any build that deep in Deadly Arts.

I must apologize, I didn’t even get to 30 point traits.

Panic Strike: When you strike a target with less than 50% health, they are immobilized for 4 seconds.

I feel it’s very lackluster with the minute long cooldown (I believe this for most of the ICD’s on most classes traits of this nature, especially ours! :P), immobilize is a godsend for anyone trying to focus something down, but I just can’t get past the CD, and again, there are better options in my opinion. I even like the fury at 50% in Critical Strikes more. I’d like to see the cooldown on this go 35-45 seconds, then I might buy into it a little more.

Residual Venoms: Applied venoms last one extra strike.

Again, this will apply to anyone you affected with venomous aura (a 30 point in Shadow Arts). It’s very dandy spamming immobilizes on an ele with 4 people stopping those RTL, aura, LF, (water), aura, (fire), burning speeds. Over extension hurts – make them pay for it (my best skill! over extending!)! Unless you are going venomshare/leeching venoms, this is really niche use in my opinion, and with leeching venoms I feel it’s almost mandatory (along with spider venom utility, in that case).

This puts you at the disadvantage of having all your spec in power/toughness/healing/condition duration, with a paltry 10 points to place elsewhere. I enjoy the spec, but unless you maximize on vitality gear you end up with below par health pool, in my opinon.
You support well, and you can hurt things, but you need even more support yourself if anyone noticed what you’re about. One called target, and you are probably done unless you are crafty slipping out of immob’s in this spec (which I will give it has a few, but still, you aren’t hard to focus down. In any spec. Ever.).

Mug: Deal damage when stealing.
This is by far and away, one of the best 10 point traits in the game if not THE best. It’s not weak, can be stupid strong lined up with rest of a spec’s burst sequence and correct circumstances; this is often used by most builds with 10 in this tree.
Venomous Strength: When applied, venoms grant 2 stacks of might for 20 seconds.
For a venom share build, or a venom heavy build this is great. Might(at 80) is always 35 power and condition damage a stack. (for reference, a 25 stack is +875 power / condition damage). With Venom share, those mights are going to whoever got your poison shares too. They also get the might with any +boon duration you may have(30% boon duration will give you 26seconds and so forth). For other builds just using venoms, this can be used to increase your burst (chances are you are lining it up so that you are immobilizing them, and maybe poisoning them (with the venoms – two activates, +4might, or petrifying them, immobilizing when it’s done, and poisoning +6might).

Potent Poison: +33% poison durations.
If you have a 3 second poison, it’s now a 4 second. That may not seem like much, but remember, poison stacks duration, not intensity. It might not get any stronger the longer they are in that poison, but unless they cleanse it, all heals are going to be 33% less effective, and it’s not terribly weak as a damaging condition (especially if boosted by condition damage). It’s also useful and ties in well with the +condition duration bonus from the line to begin with.

Sundering Strikes: 40% chance to cause 1 stack of Vulnerability for 5 seconds on a critical hit.
It’s not necessarily bad, but I personally feel there are better options. Though if you are in a steady team, Thief does have some of the best access to vulnerability and poison, making the incoming damage and ability to mitigate it a problem for a lot of people. You would have to outweigh what you gain from other choices versus what yourself and the rest of your team will gain from you being able to keep vulnerability up on your targets. Also, out of all the conditions, this is probably the best one for a cover option in my opinion. No utility aside from + incoming damage. You might have other, easier access to a cover option than a chance from a crit most likely.

Unfortunately Deadly Art’s is all the time I have to cover today. I will get back for the rest as I can. Hopefully we can get some useful conversations going on about the Thief… Without getting merged into that gameplay thread. Or without devolving into “Revealed change has crippled me too much, and I can’t adapt! Woe is me! The White Mantle…” oops, wrong part…

Remember, we’re just having fun!

Deadly Arts:
This line will improve your Power and Condition Duration. Power will affect your direct damage aspect of skills, and generally is not a wasted stat. Condition Duration will affect everything from a simple bleed, to confusion you applied through a combo field.

Minor Traits:
Serpent’s Touch: Stealing applies poison for 10 seconds
For some builds steal is utilized only as a gap closer, or a guaranteed hit on a close range skill. Other builds use it for burst, some use it for interrupts, and some use it for the poison application – if you can’t stop the heal – make it less effective. It’s a nice addition to steal for 5 points, early on the +50 power is probably even more useful.

Lotus Poison: Weaken’s targets for 3s whenever you poison them
Weakness is a condition and as such is going to be affected by however much % condition duration you have from Deadly Arts. It is also one of the more useful conditions in PvE, and is always a reduction in incoming damage no matter the setting. You can keep up permanent weakness with this one single or multiple targets(Dagger auto attack chain has a poison on one of the strikes, Shortbow has a poison field – which can be blasted for area weakness as well, and you have venoms)

Exposed Weakness: Deal 10% more damage to targets with a condition on them
With many of your autoattacks, and a slew of other skills, and players most likely – conditions will be readily available to make use of this great talent. If you are this deep in the tree, 10% more damage is no joke!
(Flat % increases like this do not work for condition damage).

Major Traits:
Back Fighting: +50% damage when downed.
With Full zerker gear, and a high power/precision/critdamage build, this is actually very strong, provided you go down. That’s not what we want though and there are other many useful choices in the tree. If you find yourself going down a great deal though, and are often close to rallying but can’t quite get there, this one will do it for you. I still don’t recommend it – other things can be changed before this to succeed most likely.

Corrosive Traps: Traps apply 5 stacks of vulnerability when triggered.
5% more damage(Vulnerability is 1% incoming damage a stack). If you use traps and have a great deal of people around often, great. Otherwise there are better choices, plus you don’t catch a lot of trap heavy builds (but have seen them!).

Hi, despite the ‘nerfs’ (yes I can see where this update hurt SA traitline procs, etc/static rotations) I feel thief is still a completely viable and versatile class. With that in mind, and all the constant squabbling and complaining throughout this (and all MMO forums), let us get some constructive and helpful posts here to assist our fabulous community (for the most part).

I felt we should talk about traits. Most classes have a lot of lackluster options and we are no different (as lackluster is a matter of opinion). We as thieves however have a few things going for us – variety. Surely there is always going to be a 25/30/x/x/x variant backstab build that everyone complains about not being able to counter (and then the next post someone says they are pie). Or the infamous “unicorn” d/d condition build. d/p Permastealth? How about S/D mugger? Point is, we thieves have many options open to us that are all very viable and contextually useful (as it should be, no one spec to rule them all).

As a new thief you might become discouraged by all the people sitting around ranting about thief being broken, or OP, or UP. As a new thief, it will be you who has to decide what you are going to be.

But to my original idea – a thread about traits. Let’s discuss them and figure out what they do and how they will interact with a thief and their experience in game.

Throughout the lines we’ll have minor and major traits. Minor traits are gained at 5/15/25 points in the trees can not be changed and are always active with that many points in the tree(barring an internal cooldowns), and majors are at the 10/20/30 point locations and can be changed for a few different things depending on how deep you’ve gone into the tree.

Tcbl bay defense was epic. I was the thief continually daggerstorming projectiles.

I am a large advocate of hk and executioner, though excellent use of a certain sigil can make hk a wasred trait, but i use them in more burst builds. Good ol 10/30/30 with sd is grand with e ecutioner. I just like dancing, anddont like people hating me because i stealth.

wanted to show a few screenies of the build/stats I am using.

another note on condi removal – the superior sigil of generosity. 60% chance on crit to send a condition to your target (10sec ICD). the food is -40% Lemongrass Poultry Soup-is also +70Vit.

this is with the 0/20/0/30/20
in crit strikes I use the +7% crit when attacking from side or back, I use the %crit to vitality as well, but it’s open to change.

in acro I nab vigor on heal, hard to catch, and might on dodge. I generally swap out the might for the fall damage trait, or something else.

In trickery it’s boonrip+vigor on steal, and open, generally caltrops for more dodge shenanigans/bleed spreading, but they are lackluster in comparison the utility that I have no room for generally

edit: I am still switching gears around and finding the optimal home for me on stats, but so far it’s very fun, and even without the stealths (aside from a few CnD’s), it’s effective provided they don’t just run the assist train on you with spammed immobilizes (but that’s gonna kill us no matter the spec).

I want in on duels too. No spiking, just bowing

Stealthless thief will be there to harass everyone. Had some fun, even if all my fights ended with me eating dirt…

Sig of agi is a single and aoe condi cleanse. I have 0 SA. Though if conditions bother you, a stealth util or two, plus 10 in sa(clean on stealth every 3s, twice with 15sa.). Fixes that. Also, melandru runes for expense of other stat points, or -% condi food.

It works well, for 1v1 and 2, but needs to on toes, and people cant shout culling or hax when i outplay. Can zerg surf but will generally die unless supported since zero stealth aside from cnd

Edit: grammar/spelling/structure – it’s early and im on a phone…
And more on sig of agi: it only cleans one. Save it for big /long stacked bleeds and burns. Evades, Rfi, withdraw, should keep you good to wait out others to tick off(sb thief, other poisoners can be rough if they apply smartly). Dont forget sig also boosts 100 energy, so always burn your 2/3 dodges before use.

I like the trap on heal. 5Vuln isnt terrible with the shadowstep trap, past that i agree.

I use them for kittens and giggles. Nothing like enemy zergs commander rtl’ing over kd trap. Rest of following zerg is curious why the charge paused. WHO USES TRAPS? Lol! indeed. Another fun one is to use ambush trap well ahead of time, wait for trigger, use again, and then TG. Fun when you get get 3 melees.

But i totally agree, very niche and virtually anything is better in comparison.

0/20/0/30/20

Mix and matched rampager, knights, soldiers, apoth/carrion stuff.

Dd and sb. No stealth aside from cnd backstab.

Rfi, withdraw, signet of agi, open last util and elite.

Get good at dodging and evades.

17-19K hp, 2.9-3.2atk, 2200-2400 armor, 50-60cd, 37-52 crit, 380-520condition.

Selver.1307:

Godslore ~845pm EST. Good show Fergs, the engineer and myself would like to thank you for a nice little battle.

edit: looks like you guys want it more than I thought…

Godslore ~845pm EST. Good show Fergs, the engineer and myself would like to thank you for a nice little battle.

10/30/30

Key.
H/t/p jewelry, p/v/crit damage orbs.
Zerker gear, apply upgrades to increase survivability or offense. Your style.

I run a boon removal on crit on sword, and offhand is water.

Offhand is sb with nullification, or dd with same setup. HiS for heal – stealth, condi removal), refuge, BP, (Your pick, i go scorp wire, ambush trap, or something else…)

Mug, regen ally on stealth, condi removal in stealth, heal in stealth, prec>vit, executioner, 7% crit from side/back.

Learn inf strike/return antics.
Tg/ambush+you=you just blew someones mind and usual chances 1v2 unless coordinated.
Stealth often, save steal for sub 30-40% bursting.

Plenty of flex in gear traits for how you play. Devastating spec.

Darek.1836:

I hate that STAR thief who kept killing my dolys! Also I hate stealth when I lag that just sucks.

Hehe, soon you shall all know me. I thought the supply camp was fun. Almost had the two rangers til a 3rd came in. Well played guys. Had that camp solo longer than i thought i would.

Well played defender’s, I was the thief showing up with a sword and arrow cart. Well played all involved.

<3 fighting you guys who actually fight, shame on adding to an already 2v1 Guess it’s to be expected invading you and all…

Rez, if they hit hard want to be at your back. they only can be stealthed for so long. Once culling, and if culling is fixed you have 4-5, barring refuge, and if they leave that revealed for 3 s, they can only move so far and have a small window where they can hit theircombo. If escaping, dependingon player, can easily throw you off. Anyone can.

Flash, Rtl, speed, aura, rtl, all the while healinf.
Warrior leap/spin/shout.
Blink, decoy/tasm, veil

‘Free look’ option. We pop up somewhere. Any is capable of outsmarting you.one

Edit: i hate phone foruming.

Bruno, i successfully run a d/d healing>condition/toughness>vitality>power build. Its suvivable, but bleed heavy, if they have copious/consistent condi removal it stalemates, or if they are good at lining up burst you may lose. I dont run shortbow, most 1v1 who kills me i let them have their loot bag.

Yeah i stealth a lot. So what? You mesmers clone. You eles have great point control or mobility, you guardians just ignore things and fart and it happens to heal you… warriors have fought me for 5 minutes (good fight, ferguson’s rest native), because we just danced so well, even when his ranger friend and my engineer friend showed u, only to die while the warrior and i were both dealing with an add. Our beautiful dance continued… tangebt.. anyway point is:

Stealth is fine. Fix culling, reavealed to 4 seconds if not enough. If you cant target, immobilize, beat down a thief in that time, you are both wasting time. One or both of you need more. It’s not like prediction is difficult.

P/- – body shot lol, lower ini by 1. Increase base damage by 15-25%, almost anything’s better.
Vital shot – comparatively worse than other class `equivalents` but is fine really. You are at minimal risk short of 1200ers and theyre telegraphed. Id like to see it able to keep 6 or 7 bleeds, but meh.

S/- pistol whip lol. Good. Consistent. Deathwish. Either 100% win or fail.damage too low for how vulnerable you really are.

Change quickness to reduce current cooldown on skills by 50%. (My heal had 22 seconds, now has 11.) Could increase base ini regen by 25-100%, oh mesmer field dropped? I will now activate tg for a 90s cooldown incurred. Bam quickness solved.

Obstructed.

45S cd.

No item, or movement.

Who am i?

If thief uses an ini ability (cnd), it uses the ini on button press, not connect. 1 base ini. A lot trait for extra in trickery. Regardless, only 1 slot skills, and utilities/steal use no ini.

Edit: 12 base ini, damn phone

I run a thief. D/D. Not glass. It’s mostly tough/condition/heal, with some vit/lower. We can be squishy as any class. Just as we can be defensive. Traits/gear people.

If my spec or a variation is ‘permastealthing’ they truly are doing very little damage, unless we stacked you with bleeds… and you dont cleanse…

We can annoy, and harass 3, 4, 5, even more depending, but if youre letting us walk all over you, youre either a spec we counter or you suck. Ive battledabout one of. Every class who can do this. They are specced to hold up small groups, cause mayhem from behind enemy lines, and be avble to escape. Any time youre focusing on a build like this from any class theyve won. 4 chasing 1 thief or ele? Come on. You couldve taken and defended a supply camp by now.

Stealth is fine. Ive been downed in it enough. Culling/rendering fixed=less fuss. You should be able to see us for at least 3-5 seconds then. Why stealth? Why adrenaline? Why moa? Why so many damn clones? Why so mad bro?

With me intermittently seeing things about fall damage traits, why not add into existing minor traits, the fall damage compnent? Can also add dual use to some utilities, but no stacking for silly reductions.

I.e. – thief, shadow arts line, could be 15, or 25. Could maybe have it be active when stealthed.

Elementalist could have like in air line, 15 or 25, lifting zephyr? Could also tie one to mist form, how does mist get hurt falling?

Warrior, endure pain, and so on.

Clear up major trait lines too for something if they did something akin.

I run 0/0/30/20/20.
Regen to ally on stealth, condi removal on stealtb, patiene or shadows rejuv.
Might on dodge, vigor on heal or quick recovery.
Caltrops on dodge, bountiful theft.

Apothecary gear, carrion jewelry, chrosocola orbs in everythin D/d; p/d or sb. Offhand dagger has 30% chance to heal allies, mh has moar orb.

With this you keep blinding powder, refuge, and either shadow trap, trops, or a stun break.

Basically stay mobile, dodge on people, pop stealth for backstabs/sneak attacks. Hishadows for heal. You stay topped off via stealth, bleed people out with blossom, and generally outlast.

on stealthing, I get an icon with no description, just a little square where information would go if that field was filled in.
I can’t quite make out what it is, but it’s a huge fat black border, then a little bit of red in center.

Placeholder?

I am currently running 0/0/20/20/30. Condition focused obviously. I carry around dagger/dagger as the main set, but offhand pistol/dagger, or shortbow, or pistol/pistol. I carry them around, and it’s not a big deal if I have an idea of what I’ll be doing.

Trait and gear selection revolves around Condition Damage, Toughness, Vitality, Power, and Healing.

Gear (the gear doesn’t apply to sPvP, but I don’t even have the gear layout I am using there in front of me, and I suck in sPvP mostly):

Armor slots are all Masterwork Apothecary, with Chrysocola Orbs(I’m poor yo), and Masterwork Carrion/Chrysocola Orb Jewelry.

Raw stat’s you’ll end up around:

Power: 1,370ish
Precision: 920ish
Toughness: 1,300ish
Vitality/(HP): 1575ish / (17,000)
Healing: 450ish
Condition Damage: 1,125ish
Attack: 2,174
Crit/(CritDamage): 4%/(0%)

This gives you the Health pool to take a few hits, the toughness to be able to take a few more, and the healing to get it all back, but WHAT? NO SIGNET OF MALICE?!

NOPE!

Very rarely I throw in some Signet of Malice, but it’s base heal is low, even with the healing in the gear, and the passive, though nice, especially when and if you are able to keep the evades rolling well, or coupled with dagger storm, just doesn’t play to the builds style that I use it with. I normally will use:

HEALS:
Hide in Shadows(HiS): This is a big burst heal with a 1 second cast time, and a 30s cooldown. Casting it is a pain sometimes, but getting distance is almost never a problem for this build, nor is creating the ability to get distance. This is the heal I generally come with. As a bonus, it removes the damage over time Conditions on use (but the poison still affects the heal, though with this build you combat that with some foresight/luck of situation), and places you in stealth.

Withdraw: This skills healing is more than Signet of Malice, and less than Hide in Shadows. It also throws you a decent distance backward from where you face, and brings the evade mechanic while you’re sailing backward. It also removes the Immobilized, Cripple, and Chilled (the slowing conditions). This one has it’s place, and it may be for you, but I prefer the benefits of HiShadows when I run this setup normally.

Utilities I usually run with:
Blinding Powder/Smoke Screen/Shadow Refuge/Caltrops/Ambush Trap/Roll for Initiative/Scorpion Wire

Thieve’s Guild/Dagger Storm

It’s mostly just between Shadow Refuge, Blinding Powder, and Smoke Screen for everyday dinking about, unless I know there will be need for something else.

Utilities it’s always a toss up, if I want more bleeds, or think I’ll need a projectile bubble, I go to Dagger Storm, more mayhem in general and everyday running around: THE GUILD WILL DO THE WORK FOR YOU, just ask any thief why they joined.

-Shadow Arts: – Shadow Protector
-Shadow Arts: – Shadow’s Embrace

Using my normal setup, everytime I stealth I get regeneration. It’s not the best one, but it’s not weaksauce either due to the healing from gear/trait lines. It also stacks with Hide in Shadow’s Regen to beef that up more. You also remove another condition when you stealth (that HiShadow’s doesn’t remove), and if you wait out the stealth, you can remove another even thanks to the +1second to stealth skills in the line. You also put regen on ANYONE you stealth, which is so easy with blinding powder (AOE around you stealth/enemies blind), Shadow Refuge (stacks the regen per pulse, as it does the stealth duration), and Smoke Screen (leap finisher’s through it will stealth). Not to mention you’re Cloak and Dagger, or Hidden Thief (Stealing grants 2seconds of stealth) if you drop on stealth condition removal.

-Acrobatics: – Vigorous Recovery
-Acrobatics: – Pain Response

I like my dodging, so I take Vigor on healing, and more on regen, I liked pain response. Between dagger’s 1 chain (2nd in chain restores minor endurance), and Feline Grace (half endurance cost refunded on dodge), and the vigor, mobility isn’t too much of an issue.

-Trickery: – Thrill of the Crime
-Trickery: – Bountiful Theft
-Trickery: – Hastened Replenishment

The on steal effects I just love, but at worst I would rather lose might/fury/swiftness, than the extra vigor(+2buffs if steal’s target is buffed). My target will die, but I need that endurance.
Hastened Replenishment is all selfish, but I give regen/stealth out like candy, so it balances out.

It plays a lot like any other condition thief using a dagger dagger set as a main. Sometimes I throw in P/D, or P/P, or D/P, but they are all finesse, playnig keep away, hit and run, and chaos/disruption tactics, but you want to focus more on stealthing, not for the backstabs (which as I said, aren’t terrible, just nothing to write home about), but for the constant source of regen for you and your friends. You have a lot of options to stealth. I am constantly refining the style to suit myself, as you should do for yourself.