Guild Wars 2

Dedlaw.9130:

Shoyoko.7309:

I play with 4 kits

You use Medkit over Healing Turret?

Medkit is just as good as Healing Turret.
Out of Medkit, I can get 8k instant heal and the recharge for each bandage is every 11 seconds. Also with inertial converter whenever my health goes under 25%, I can heal myself with another 5k heal instantly since bandage self is a tool belt skill.
There is also added bonus of getting fury and speed.
The Medkit is also good to use to trigger might and other boons rooted from traits, sigils and runes such as enhance performance and runes of altruism since you don’t need to use your heal skill to access these bonuses.

Although healing turret is clearly better in terms of condition removal and burst of aoe heal at one time. Depending on how your build is, Medkit can be one kitten healing kit and a viable option.

Oh yes kits are truly what makes engineers the most diverse professions out there. I play with 4 kits and can never go back- the amount of skills I can use sets me apart and I always end up being the one that is the last one to die in any dungeon.
I tried to go back to turrets, SD, potions, gadgets- I couldn’t. I got fed up of not having enough control, utility, skills, heals and etc.
Kits rule! Fact!

I remember the only time mortar was important and used was when we had the southsun cove event.
Lots of mortars elite was lined up while all the other classes was fighting in the front line, engineers was kicking kitten at the back and popping crabs everywhere.
A truly magical moment for all engineers.

It really depends how you like to play…
As long you put in 30 in the power line, you will always be able to dish out good damage and provide vulnerability. While it is good to go all berserker, I tend to find a bit of survivability goes a long way and particularly helps for higher fractals and other difficult parts of dungeons and runs.
If your team likes to stack- try bomb kit (best damage, large areas of conditions, smoke field that you can combo to give stealth) or if you like to play from afar, Grenades.
Save one slot for utility, ones I recommend is Elixir S or U or elixir gun.
Healing turret is great for a team that likes to stack, but if your team is all over the place definitely use medkit. You can put down med bandages for your teammates that resets every 10 secs and also 5k heal on tool kit bar is just sooo good.

I’m using my revised version of sickman syndrome build which is 30/0/0/20/20- an all kit build that provides dps, cc, healing, survivability and team support. My new version now is with p/s with medkit/elixir gun/flamethrower/grenade. And instead of kit refinement, I use leg mod. You can change the kits except elixir gun to suit how you play. I hope this helps.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/PVE-The-Sickman-syndrome/first#post2041969

Hi everyone, its been a long time since I have last been on the forum ^^. Haven’t played GW2 in a while and I have come back to see all these changes to engineers! (and some good ones too.) I am looking at what has been tweaked in the engineer class particularly these three skill/traits, I tried looking at the forums and the net for confirmation if these skills are working as intended but hadn’t much luck.
Can anyone verify if these skills listed below work:
1) Elixir-S: can now stun break again?
2)Legs mods: does provide 33% on immobolize, cripple and chill? Is it now worth it to get this trait?
3)Healing Mist: is now a stun breaker?

And any more useful information of engineer changes since may would be very much appreciated.
Btw I have already checked out the game release notes but would rather get opinions and facts from the engy community as not all updates work as claimed to be.
Thanks.

She’s just a kitten, only nineteen months old but already she feels broken.

A terrified little kitten
A kitten who knows nothing but nerfs
All this kitten now knows is taking drugs, it’s the only way she feels useful.
Please will you help show this kitten that you care?
Your support can provide funding for time travel and illegal Kit Refinement.
This kitten wants to change the future, with your help;
it can travel back in time as terminator and create a turret-apocalypse.

You can help right now by calling 0800-DON’T-NERF-A-KITTEN and give two buffs a month
and help this kitten to be the engineer she desires.
The reality is that this endangered kitten right now needs you to stay alive
Bring hope to this kitten; no kitten should be born to a life of a drug-addict.
Let us pave the way for a future full of gadget freaks, kit junkies and vintage bot collectors
Show that you care
Please.

another way is to set up build like this:
sigil of battle, sigil of strength
trait to enhance performance and juggernaut
2x altruism, 2x hoelbrak and 2x fire
use flamethrower
get crit rate of 45%
ghost pepper popper
change to healing skill every 10 seconds or so,
and have fun being 20+ to 25 might stack in combat easily during the day ^^

Has anyone tried super speed whilst crippled, hilarious animation ;p.

When i try using a non kit build, i felt like a chunk of my engie is missing. I’m sure the many builds with no kits are good but why stop there?

gimmethegepgun.1284:

Kit Refinement is crap for multikit builds now, so I’d go with Speedy Kits instead, and take something better than Centaur runes. Along with that, if it doesn’t hurt your damage overly much, Invigorating Speed would be good to bring instead of Deadly Mixture.

No way, deadly mixture is 15% damage increase for EG and FT, that like equivalent to 12 stacks of might. For FT/EG, it’s a no brainer to get deadly mixture since I am guessing that would be your main attack kit.
But I agree with kit refinement, the new patch destroyed it for multi-kit users (sobs), it just be RNG and not the good kind. The only KR worth using for is medkit and bombkit. Speedy kit is also no-brainer for perma-swiftness.

mintberry.9013:

We don’t offer much to a party but (almost) any group composition can successfully run any dungeon. We don’t have any real group buffs and the skills that help the party can be done better by other classes. It’s pretty difficult to determine in pvp if a class is good, but in dungeons it is clear we are lacking. And since our traits determine which skills we should use we can’t change much skills on the fly depending on the boss fight.

I beg to differ, I think that any profession can be good in PVE especially engineer. We just happen to have the highest learning curve and it also depends on what your builds are. From my perspective, the best aspect engineer can bring to the party is control and conditions. It may seem minor but it makes a lot of difference in gameplay.
Some of the combo build that I used before that was really good was:
Rifle/Net turret/ Rocket Turret- for continuous immobilization and stun
P/P/Nades- to apply a wide range of conditions and vulnerability
P/S/Toolkit/Bombkit- Big damage and constant confusion (magnetic pull is amazing)
Multi-kit build- for obvious reasons

Elixir Gun- Super elixir is one of the best light fields we have in the game and fumigate is so good for team condition removal. (synergies well with FT)
Also we are really great at skipping parts in dungeons (if not the best), speedy kits and invigorating vigor for perma- swiftness and vigor.

I used to think engies didn’t has much to offer but I realize our role is not so obvious to others, and although we may not specialize in anything like other professions- we are one hell of jack-of a trade kind. =)

bromi.7809:

Make zerk build with prolly survival trinkets, and change wrench/elixir gun for situation. Its support enough, and in hi-lvl pve you won’t really heal someone who doesn’t know what he’s doing so your best bet is more control.

Of course in dredge you change grens to bombs to run door.

Good points, most of that I already do, except for changing skills. I never really found myself changing skills for situations since I made this build to be viable in all situations. But for higher fractals, I think I will just do that.

I’m all up for good builds for fractals, I wondering if there are multi kit builds that are viable for high level fractals since I love the wide option of utility as my disposal.
Currently I’m on fractals lvl 26 and it get increasingly difficult stay alive. I don’t have much problems but depending on my team, it’s hard to say whether my build is good.
Atm I am using p/p with medkit, eg, ft and nades and I am finding it really good in providing cc, damage, healing, team support and survivabilty is good.
But I always use food, do many of you use food for fractals too?

Skitza.4069:

Well I’ve been thinking about trying something like this but haven’t yet. This is a little bit of theorycraft on my part but why not try to work bomb kit into the mix for gluebomb, fire field, smoke field, and confusion? Something like this (might have to cut and paste it)

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fcEQFAUlspyXnrynF17IBIF71uiUofK/5hcbbaB

Net shot, Net attack, net turret, and glue bomb make for some serious immobilization, vulnerability, and cripple with these traits. Running elixir H and S with 409 also gives you 4 ways to clear conditions and an awesome stun break as mentioned above. I’m not sure what runes I’d try and run with this but I think it is something I’m going to have to try in the near future.

It’s a good idea however to use glue bomb you need to be in melee range which kinda counteracts the use of immobilization and rifle’s range. I feel like rifle and net turret is really good for playing keep away.
I made a similiar build using nades instead of bomb kit and I had a really fun time playing it, against TA morgana’s spiders boss that thing couldn’t move while I was spazzing out nades.
It’s funny just to see the boss just stand in the middle while everyone just needed to stand at range and dish out their attacks.

I think the state of the engineer class is still better after the recent patches (apart from the KR massacre). A lot of changes have been making the base of a lot of our skills stronger and more viable. Still, like everyone else, I believe a lot more work is still need to be done on the engineer because the core foundation of this profession was so badly done, that whenever I look at the trait line, I just wanna toss all that up in the trash and rework it all.
With that being said, I think it going to a lot of patches to fix the broken state engineer is in. The big questions I would like to have an answer to from Anet is what are engineer supposed to be? what is our profession style?
If they knew the answer to these questions, by then we would have a viable class. Atm we are still a mash up of drug-addicts, gadget freaks, kit junkies and vintage bot collectors =)

@Halcyon.7352 This is what I have also gotten in my results as well when choosing sigils, the reason why I stuck in choosing strength with battle is to give more leniency in the might stacking. Like you said the sigils do not share a 45 cooldown and I have commented earlier in thread that it is actually around 10 seconds with battle MH (funnily enough). This is actually really good in my opinion, meaning that if you aren’t consistent in might stack or in a intense battle sticking to one kit, then the strength really helps with nades or FT.
One way to think about it is, battle has 20 secs cooldown before you can proc it again, yet you can proc strength after around 10 secs after battle meaning you can still stack might in between battle cooldown. So either way….=D
However if you are consistent in pressing 6 for might stacking, then I would recommend “superior sigil of accuracy” for 5% more crit chance or “superior sigil of force” for permanent flat out 5% damage increase.
If you have consistent 9 stacks of might, with superior sigil of force, that 5% damage increase would be equivalent to 4 might stack.

Only you can decide what is the best build to play, each engineer can have a very different play style and on how they would like to play. What type of support do you want to be? Dps? Healing? Team support? CC master?
Rather asking what is the “best build”, start giving us specifications to how you like to play and then we can start talking ^_______^=

I love playing an all-round build called the sickman syndrome build. In that build I play as a kitmaster that can provide team support, healing, CC and decent dps. I trait it to have good survivabilty and its very adaptable to most pve situation.

Depending on what you can handle. I think toughness and vitality starts to get really important when you start to go higher fractals. Dps is great but it won’t matter if you can’t survive to dish it out.
Condition damage build are very viable with engineer since we can do a lot of conditions however there’s been a lot of debate around it. On the plus side you can deal damage over time and not necessarily hit them constantly to do damage however there is a max cap on 25 stacks on any conditions. All professions deal conditions as well so it not so rare to see at least a stack of 25 of one conditions. It really depends who is on your team, if its a necro, then it’s most likely conditions build and that can affect your dps.
Personally I think engineer can do a hybrid of both power and condition damage.

It great to hear that they will be focusing on engineer this month and providing more buff changes and balances to make some of our other options more “potentially viable”
This is positive news compared to the past patches and discussions; not to mention they have been slowly buffing and “balancing” (cough) engi.

The only problem I have with the stream was that (no offense to the anet but..) I felt it could have been more prepared and optimised to have a better setting. We had only two people to talk and provide “important” opinions, but they were only limited to what they played and heard. It would have been great to have someone be able to provide experienced insight on behalf of the engineer community and likewise to all professions.
When Karl pulled out the notes saying there’s a few pages with regards to balancing engineer, I was gutted that we didn’t much in depth response and it really did sound like he had not much understanding of the engineer current flaws. However he did it to all other professions so….we at least we got 7 minutes.
All hearts go to rangers- 2 minutes discussion on mainly longbow(now sending my pity love to them through cyber space <3.)

If you putting 30 in toolkit traits, definitely berserkers

It all comes to your play style and build but engineers definitely have the potential to be really good in PVE particularly in dungeons. There are many skills that provide CC, and conditions which I think are key supports in dungeons. We also have many other ways to provide heals and great dps. The more I play engineers, the more I realise we still have tricks in our toolbox to pull out.
I tried the new updated ac path 3 dungeon which everyone was saying was difficult, at the end, I was tanking the boss with a lvl35 elementalist at the back (three people died in the beginning)- I didn’t find it difficult at all.
Another thing which makes us really good, is being able to have perma-swiftness, I can’t think about playing without it- so good for dungeon runs and you can always trait to have perma vigor as well to provide more dodge.

@Schixeno.8596 Once, again I cannot appreciate more that you are also trying my build. Thanks for the feedback and critique XD.
Alas, I understand where you are coming from, that has always been the trade off for kit masters, in return for versatility we don’t have stunbreak.
That’s why I always strive to make this build as abundant as possible in all other areas so the trade off is worthwhile espiecially with the capabilities to heal at max 15,000hp and automatic elixir at 25% with also available immediate heal. Hopefully what you have experienced only happens rarely, once you start to get comfortable, this build can take on almost all pve situation (except cof suicide run- unless its been fixed?).

My sickman build is at a good 2300-2400 base armor, depending on the variation. The survivabilty has been great so far and with food, it would be around 2450 which is considered around the minimum to be pretty tanky

I think berserkers is better for this build. I find hybrid of power and condition damage is a good way to go with grenade builds, you already have 300 condition damage in trait line- I say that is enough.
One reason why is because in dungeon, you will find that most builds stack condition regardless, so there is always a threshold of how much condition you do. You can’t go wrong with power and crit damage, I find the crit rate sweetspot for nades is 45% and over.
I use to run a 30/30/0/0/10 build with nades and I always find myself getting all the aggro in dungeons because of the amounts of crits I would do.

@burgeranacoke.2093 Thanks for trying my build, glad to hear that you enjoy it ^o^=.
I don’t think it’s crazy if you want to stick with rifle, more control and really good for soloing.

For me there is one pullback from using rifle instead of p/p, in particular, is that you could only use one sigil (obviously sigil of battle right ^^!). This means, you would need to make sure you are on top of your “medication” (swapping to med kit in a timely fashion) for your 6-9 stacks of might whereas with sigil of battle, helps to keep up the consistency of might stacks. With this, I advise to try “Ghost Pepper Popper” food (press Ctrl F to search Ghost Pepper Popper for description) to help with the might stacking during the day.

Also, rifle skills tend to be more focused for disabling a single target so you would need to rely more on FT,EG and nades for CC and support, whereas p/p is really good for tackling mobs such as p/p#3: static shot- shoots a chain attack of confusion and p/p#5: Glue shot- shoots an aoe of immobile and cripple.

I would suggest either berserker (power and crit) or rampager rifle (more precision).
If you are considering condition damage, a rampager rifle or p/p (128 condition damage) is just enough, since the might stacks would also help boost your condition damage as well as power (with 2xAltruism, you can get an immediate 9 stack of might in combat which equals to 315 power + 315 condition damage.)

However if you use your rifle a lot, then I would suggest going berserkers since there is not much conditions you can do with rifle, and use food plus medkit#5: drop stimulant to increase precision and crit rate for that nice consistent high critical damage ^________^=

Depending what kind of role you like to play, there a lot of builds that are viable for PvE and Dungeon. Are you looking for a tanky build, power build, high support build? What do you like to play with as well? kit-wise? or strategy wise?..etc?

Naioby.3705:

Shoyoko.7309:

For now, i did a quick example in Orr to print screen my damage output.
I use a build called the “sickman” syndrome, a variation of the kitmaster build. It’s an all round, “highly” versatile build with added surivability (+minor stunbreak) and still decent dps.
[img]http://img837.imageshack.us/img837/1671/gw020zd.jpg[/img]

I couldnt get to see the picture XD maybe you can upload it using the “attach an image” option (More posting & formatting options). Very nice dmg could you share the weapons ur using? I will check on the “sickman’s syndrome” thanks
And if its not too much to ask, could you please try the “Practice Dummy” @ Fort Marriner in LA. That way we all have a default target

Hey, just noticed now that you replied back to my comment lol XD
Here you go, at default I do around 1600 damage, however my sickman build is an all round build that centers around might stack and consistent crit damage. So my constant average would be around 2800 damage (with 2x runes of altruism).
Highest damage seen so far is 4500 damage.

In the sickman build, I use p/p with EG, FT, nades and supply crates. A diverse build with great potential in healing, CC, survivability, decent dps and extra boons on top. This build was made to be flexible in any dungeon situation and provide all-round support for the team.

Try Orr, most monsters there apply conditions and sometimes muliple condtions. Like risen corrupter and the like, they are good to test condition removals.

I had always wondered why GW2 of all mmos don’t have this, and that’s shortcut command lines to quickly instruct or notify your team.

It’s so simple yet would be so effective in coordinating with other party members, if i had a shortcut commands to say to my team things like:
“All to me, it’s healing time”
“We’re running now”
“Focus on res please”
“Come back to me”
“Attack first, res later”
(sorry, can only come up with crappy ones- I’ve adapted so much to the current party system I can’t think of good command lines, oh gawd. =_=" years of mmo terms rinsed out by GW2.)

These simple lines would help so much in dungeons and fractals to help co-ordinate our skills to be effective in teamplay. I think this would also help when easing in first-timers and when the party is in combat. I play a very active kitmaster build engineer with grenades (manual targeting), I don’t have time to type or have a breather when we are up against e.g fire imp boss in fractals.
I believe most of the frustration in dungeons and fractals can proabably be easily solved with some sort of in-game quick communication system such as this.

However I have taken to account the abundance of builds and skills used from all professions, I think there should be a way we can also personalise our commands so that suits our build and skills.
E.g, “bandages here!”- since I use medkit and can spread bandages on the floor.

Another thing, how about a priority system? Instead of just of being able to target one object, it would be great if we had a second and third target option.
Situation example:
Team has a red target toggle(first priority target) on the boss to focus attack. Three of us gets down by one of the ads and is currently fighting for life, we can toggle yellow target (second priority target) on that ad so that all three down players can focus and kill to rally while the other two aggro on main boss and other things.

Simple functions as these, I think would help in making teamplay in dungeons and missions more strategic instead of “zerging” it or using the “trial and error” methods.

What does everyone think about these ideas?
And if you had shortcut command lines, what would yours be? Or you definitely want to see?

Macha.9160:

I just did a quick calculation based on my stats ( 3 pieces still missing^^)

I now have, without food, 38% crit-chance.

Together with Master Maintenance Oil and Bowl of Curry Butternut Squash Soup i should have 48%.

The question asked should be: Is it usefull to push your crit-chance above your “sweet”-spot? Do you sacrefice something else if you use it?

I,for myself, am trying to get at least 50% crit ( cause i think this is my sweet spot^^).

I hope i could help you with my thinking…

Ps: If i changed the Curry aganist a 100Power Food, i would gain 10 dmg, but would loose 5% crit… I don’t think these 10 dmg are worth it

For me the minimum crit rate should be at very least 40% (FT sweetspot) , to do decent dps 45% (nades sweetspot) and to do good dps 50%.
I don’t know why, but it seems to work like that for this build. And I agree more power instead of crit didn’t seem to be worth it when i tried it either. We already got enough power from the might stacks, so I think the precision is really important to make sure we can do a constant crits. That’s where I see all the decent damage is coming from.
Apparently the scale of power to damage increase seems to slow down when you reach more than 2000 power, plus, through my experiments, I just find that any more power I try to squeeze from my base build would not affect much the crit damage, I end up getting the same average figures.
For your question I think 50% is already really good atm and with fury, you get up at max 70-75% crit chance
Still experimenting and going through more tests. I definitely keep this thread updated on this.

Macha.9160:

After experimenting with your build, i think it is better to run 2x alturism 4xemerald orbs^^

But that could be for me ’caus i do fractals most of the time and the 3 might to nearby friends are just sweet

Thanks again Macha for your responce ^o^=, it seems it can’t be helped the 2x Altruism is really awesome with this build and the constant stack of “9 might in combat” is too good.
My only problem earlier was that I would sacrifice precision hence less crit rate ( I was really fixated on that 45% sweet spot) but now I find there are plenty of food and bonuses to level it out and make this build a lot more viable.

Halcyon.7352:

Kontrolle.3514:

played such builds since beta mostly in WvW.
Every single build i liked used Kit-Refinement and E-Gun.

Now i barely play at all because of the last changes, tried different builds and all are complete horrible. The best build for solo roaming was with e-gun and flametrhower condition spec. Elixir S is a must for stomping/rezzing and the key to win if youre outnumbered.

I could face everything and it was awesome and unique compared to the 90% lamebad ele/thief/mesmers. This class and so the whole game died for me in the last patch. I try every day to login but after a couple of minutes i just get angry and ragequit.

Still trying to cope with Kit Refinement nerf too… It’s like, I go to the old faithful E-gun to remove that immobilize or fear and… nothing happens. Suddenly I realize I’ve triggered cooldown with nades or something, and I feel dazed and, well, screwed. =/

I suppose the suggestions on mitigating it’s effect help (ie, not switching to certain kits til you need it) But…. 10 seconds is rediculous, imo. Should be 3-5 at the most as it already has individual cooldowns.

I totally understand this frustation, I have a new finding that I think that might be helpful. I wonder if these tips might help:

Extra Condition Removal:
• Bowl of Saffron-scented Poultry Soup (update- highly unrecommended)- Gain 70 Healing power; Gain 100% Chance to remove a condition on heal (cooldown: 10 seconds)
Since the last changes, I had my eye on this food and been testing it every now and then. It does work and does what it says however with this it is difficult to proc it as you would be constantly relying back on the medkit for perma-swiftness, heal and might.
However for some people this may be the answer. Let me know your findings on this food if you ever use it.

And also the “04/03/2013- Post KR Change Tip”, use Ctrl F to find out for more details.
At the moment this is all I can find to help with the instant double condition removal.
=/

note": don’t use Just did further testing, extermely unviable- only works when you are standing still (bugged? =/)

09/03/2013 Other notes: When i first made this build, I wanted to make sure the base stats and equipment was enough to make a all-round highly versatile build. Now with my new finding of food and bonuses use. I now believe this build can be tweaked and can be customised to anyone’s specification while still following the original build concept.

The following changes that is still viable with this build:
• Using berserker pistols ( I use rampagers for precision but you can gain precision with food and bonuses listed )
• 2x Altruism (for 9 stacks of might in combat and provide 3 stack might to nearby allies, I would like to thank everyone for mentioning this. I have tested it and it is really great and it awesome to know it works well with this build)

Other Findings:

The critical chance rate: I always get stuck with the crit chance rate and would always bother me when I am making changes to this build ><! . From my findings:
FT works well with crit rate with 40% and over but I find the sweet spot for nades is 45% and over. To everyone else who has tried this build, what are your findings?

And another question i like to ask everyone: What is more important, the final unbuffed stats or the final buffed stats?

09/03/2013 F&B Update: Lots of foods and bonuses to help adjust this build in a way it fits your situation. I’ve experimented with lots and these are probably the only ones I would highly recommend anyone to try with this build. So lets start customising your sickman build!
*note: Still testing all food mention below and seeing any other options are viable. Do post your findings in anyways that you think would help improve this build.

For more power:

• Superior Sharpening Stone (30m- recommended): Gain power equal to 6% of your toughness; Gain power equal to 4% of your vitality; Gain 10 Experience from kills

• Plate of Truffle Steak Dinner: +200 Power for 30s on kill; +10% Critical damage (tested: duration does not stack)
For situation where you are fighting mobs, you may find this very handy. Still testing and will update my findings

For more precision:

• Master Maintenance Oil (30m- recommended) – Gain precision equal to 6% of your toughness ; Gain precision equal to 4% of your vitality; Gain 10 Experience from kills.

• Bowl of Curry Butternut Squash Soup(recommended)- Gain 100 Precision; Gain 10% Critical damage

• Bowl of Curry Pumpkin Soup- Gain 100 Precision; Gain 70 Vitality

For more Might:

• Ghost Pepper Popper(recommended)- Day: 40% Chance to gain might on crit; Night: 40% Chance to cause chill on crit
During the day, this, with FT or nades, the might stack is amazing. Is like the trait juggernaut all over again. And then in the night, do extra chills, nice.

• Bowl of Orrian Truffle and Meat Stew- 100% Chance to gain might on dodge; plus 40% Endurance regeneration (tested: gain 1 might for 5 secs)
This one is not as great and I wouldn’t highly recommend it however I don’t really dodge too much to make this viable. On the other hand, this may be applicable to someone else. If you ever using perma-vigor from the “invigorating speed” trait or elixir R, this might be a nice bonus.

For more Tankiness:

• Bowl of Truffle Ravioli- Gain 100 Toughness; Gain 70 Precision
With this, you would have more than 2450 armor, which is just the minimum to be pretty tanky

Extra Condition Removal:

• Bowl of Saffron-scented Poultry Soup (update- highly unrecommended)- Gain 70 Healing power; Gain 100% Chance to remove a condition on heal (cooldown: 10 seconds)
Since the last changes, I had my eye on this food and been testing it every now and then. It does work and does what it says however with this it is difficult to proc it as you would be constantly relying back on the medkit for perma-swiftness, heal and might.
However for some people this may be the answer. Let me know your findings on this food if you ever use it.
note": Just did further testing, extermely unviable- only works when you are standing still (bugged? =/)

@Lady Vireo.5189 yep all berserkers accessories. Need those crits and damage =p

I looked at other posts for the past few days about their testing on kit refinement and it seems like everyone is getting different results, just like to ask everyone, has anyone been getting the same result as me or does it vary?
Espiecially the medkit, many people are saying it is not affected but I tested it as find it is affect by the global cool down e.g EG to Medkit does not combo. Let me know your results.

Sylosi.6503:

RaynStargaze.6510:

Just because i know how something works (and in retrospect i really didnt know it to full extent especially the elixir gun part) doesnt mean that everyone else does —> result a lot of crap written on forum on kit refinement as i said – hence this thread

And no doubt the same people that failed to read the threads that have already explained how it works, will fail to read this one, so deeerrrrppp yourself.

Lol XD

@Lady Vireo.5189 ^o^! Thank you too for trying out my build and I really appreciate your comments ^^= It really made my day since kit refinement “to the ground” nerf.

At first I really hated the change, but I couldn’t let go of my build and found it more manageable (is it because I am an engineer?…ah the curse.=_=?). Did a lot of testing and when I played, I found really good alternatives to help with kit refinement skills.

04/03/2013- Post KR Change Tip
So for instant double condition removal, I found that you can always rely on Medkit#4 skill: Drop Antidote after EG/ FT Kitswap. Very easy to do and it has a 15 seconds cooldown so it not so bad. I’ve just played against the fire imp boss in fractals and found myself removing conditions just as fast as I was before.
Plus you can stack the Drop Antidote in a place you prefer, each vial last 50 seconds before it disappears, meaning you can stack up to 3 at one time.
And don’t forget we still have another super elixir that also removes conditions (EG#5: Super Elixir)

Other tricks I learnt, to go around the new kit refinement (buggy) change is:
Grenade to FT/EG (2 KR combo)
You can tell when the global cooldown is finished from what i call the “medkit timer”. Medkit KR is also bugged from this trait as it also receives the global cooldown. Therefore you can determine when you are able to use your KR (after internal cooldown of course) by spamming your medkit until the KR skill procs.

I hope this helps.

Making a fuss over kit refinement is no small matter, after a series of nerf and trying to understand how to make ourselves viable, a lot of engineers like me have come to a conclusion with a build involving multiple kits. What I don’t understand is what are they trying to do with this buggy change in kit refinement, seriously adding another cooldown on top? I understand that they have buffed up eg and ft however no matter how you look at it-it just looks like they want to kill off any thought of us being versatile.
Im sure they could have at least increase the cooldown on each individual kits

Just posted a thread showing how silly the nerf was, now its buggy- engineer style.

Still under testing but I found kit refinement combos that still work before nerfs on the way:

Grenade to any kit
Tool kit to any kit
Bomb kit to any kit (as intended)
EG does not combo with “to” any kit (even bomb)
FT does not combo with “to” any kit (even bomb)
Bomb kit to Tool kit / Grenade kit and then any kit after (3 kit combo)
Tool kit to Grenade kit to another kit (and vice versa- superbugged) (3 kit combo)

Another things I found out is the medkit is bugged from the kit refinement. When you use kit refinement, it also shares global cooldown of 10 seconds before you can spam it again. This means that you can determine when the kit refinement is ready by spamming medkit until you get the explosion or using a perma-swiftness timer (5 secs).

Internal Cooldown:
Elixir Gun- 20 seconds
Flamethrower- 10 seconds
Grenades- 20 seconds
Tool kit-10 seconds
Bomb kit- no cool down, instant proc. (bugged? gcd affected by FT & EG)
Med kit- no cool down, instant proc. gcd affected.

Hope this helps
Now let the fix countdown commence =P

Eviator.9746:

Rfreak.6591:

@Eviator.9746

Dude we are complaining about not being able to use more than one kit in our skillbar, who actually cares about 100-nades if you can’t play anything else?

My understanding of the nerf is evolving, so I appreciate the information.

Other than magnet + grenade barrage, what other combos were there that made use of the lack of a global cooldown on kit refinement? Two reason for this question: 1) if there are other very powerful combos, it would explain the general nerf to the trait, 2) if there are not other good combos, why is there such an uproar?

EG and FT KR = double instant condition removal
EG KR+ superelixir and healing mist = healing team combo
double grenade barrage.
Toolkit KR= box of nails (cripple)
Bombkit =Bomb

Effectively you can see a lot of combos can be made or even the KR skills can help in certain situations. But the thing is, kit refinement already has already individual cooldown so you cannot spam kit refinement skills as you like. The global cooldown on top is like anet saying to us “you can’t be that versatile”….i don’t understand how we can’t but eles can.
kit refinement is not op before but now it’s just unresonable that we need to have a timer to use this.

Gaia.2651:

I agree. I think we need some explanation. It was enough of a task to keep track of when Elixer Gun kit refinement’s cool down would be done, but now I feel like I can’t even use the Grenade Kit or Tool Kit kit refinement abilities in fear that sometime in the next five seconds I’ll need that condition removal or minor heal. If anything, this patch update encourages those of us who rely on kit refinement/elixer gun for survivability to never use any other kits, which kind of defeats the purpose of traiting into it.

Let’s be clear. This is not a nerf to 100-nades. This hurts engineers who value diversity, and I would like at least some sort of explanation from ArenaNet as to why they felt the need to nerf Kit Refinement.

Completely agree…what are they expecting from us? Everytime they nerf us, we still try to make out what we have left, what happen to us being “highly versatile” they mention in their engineer’s philosophy? I had the impression that multi-kit builds was the sort of builds that fit in line with engineers philosophy.

Eviator.9746:

Ow, I didn’t even think about the gold/time investment side of this. Though now that I think about it, perhaps the saying “If it seems too good to be true, it probably is” might apply. Making an expensive build based upon a single very powerful mechanic is asking for trouble, IMHO.

Expensive build on a single powerful mechanic? Kit refinement wasn’t powerful, it was viable. In general, kit refinement is only viable for multiple kit users in return it meant going through steep learning curve and finding ways to make a build that co-ordinate with all chosen kits.
We already have to press like 25 skills to be a viable engie so what about multi-kit users?

I’m really trying to understand anet’s decision, but seriously- anet! you nerfed one of the traits after we worked so hard to find a way to utilise and come up with great builds despite the fact we are faced with a book list of buggy traits and skills.

For all the engineers out there that put hours and gold into making our builds viable, particularly the multi-kit builds, how are you going to compensate us?

If possible, please explain as to what is the actual philosophy for engineer? It just feels like we are getting taxed for trying to maximise the versatility we have left.

So they nerfed us to the floor with previous patches, and then we finally made builds like the 100 nades, i ended up using 4-kits to be more viable, i then finally make a build that was great called the “sickman” syndrome. And now a week later, they put kit refinement global cooldown on elixIr gun, flamethrower and grenade kits……..

THATS ALL THE KITS I FREAKIN USE IN MY BUILD, FREAKING ANET WHY THE HELL WOULD YOU PUT A GLOBAL COOLDOWN ON TOP OF ANOTHER COOLDOWN.

I seriously don’t understand the idea behind it, wasn’t they wanting to push the increase in diversity of builds in the last patch?! now 4 kit builds are now hardly viable. Seriously what was op about kit refinement? Are they going to compensate us for all the gold and effort it took to come up with those builds and to make it?

@da KunG.8701 @senseidan.2036
Thanks so much for your feedbacks guys, it so great to hear that you both enjoyed my build too.
^^=
let me know how it goes with your variation with the different runes. I keep this thread up to date if I find anymore tips and tricks with this build.

This is actually exactly what I wanted to know too but you got there before me =P (applaudes wildly behind the screens)
I usually do an average of 2400 damage and can reach up to 3200 damage every now and then.
For now, i did a quick example in Orr to print screen my damage output.
I use a build called the “sickman” syndrome, a variation of the kitmaster build. It’s an all round, “highly” versatile build with added surivability (+minor stunbreak) and still decent dps.
[img]http://img837.imageshack.us/img837/1671/gw020zd.jpg[/img]

note- darn can’t get the image to show here.
Just a point, I had difficulty finding out how to printscreen and randomly pressed “scroll” button and it worked =/.

@ op
If you take our moaning away, how can I troll my engineer XD?!
Half of the fun is about going on to the forums and bad mouthing my engie. =p
Since you seem like an expert in engies, mind posting your build so us “bad” players can have a look of how we can play. o.O!!

You can always get fury from the fifth skill of medkit which grant 10 seconds of fury, but in your case- 13 seconds (cos of the 30 trait in alchemy).