Guild Wars 2

Let me give you another solution :

Let the weekly matchup draws be only possible for :

Tier 1 & 2 (Alpha League)

Tier 3 and 4 (Bravo League)

Tier 5 and 6 ( Charlie League)

Every 4 (or more ?) weeks, the top scorer of each league advances up one league and the top loser goes down. Sort of WULD but modified.

This means that a rank 7th server like Magumma gets to try Alpha League and if unsuccessful, goes down to Bravo League.

you do not need glicko to know that the 3 Tier 1 servers belong together in matchup. But they complain it was stale and they want to beat up new faces. Well, let them have their cake : feed them Tier 2 servers rather than Tier 3 and Tier 4.

I believer that true WvWers will gladly take a WXP reduction in exchange for better quality fights and queue times. If bandwagoners are given a free transfer to a low population server , they stop being bandwagoners because on low population servers, they have to WvW as per design instead of leeching.

Rawr.5930:

These aren’t suggestions to improve wvw for all, it’s for the benefit of a few.

Have you considered how lowering caps or imposing a tax would affect full servers with large pvx guild populations? .

Why would a WvW tax affect PvE population ? Does WXP give PvErs uber loot ? Outmanned buff is only present in WvW for your information. Anet can easily separate PvE population and WvW population.

Rawr.5930:

They would be effectively excluded from wvw, and asking them to move and rebuild influence and membership just because some other players would prefer what they perceive to be more balanced matchups is extremely selfish..

Spoken like a true bandwagoner ! I guess WvWers are very concerned about guild influence. It’s so important and no 1 concern that guild leaders have sleepless nights deciding whether to lose all influence to go to restart on Tier 1 servers.

Rawr.5930:

Aparr from a couple of blowouts the new matchup system does appear to be able to both distribute glicko by allowing what was previously very unusual – cross tier play.

When enough cross tier play has occurred a tightening of the variance in matchups should foster far more balanced matchups..

When the lower ranked servers realise that they are being used as punching bags for higher ranked servers, they will transfer to Tier 1 to enjoy never experiencing the possibility of facing servers one Tier above.

Rawr.5930:

So far Sos and mags have just had really bad rolls, and it is a little unfair and unfortunate for them to bear the brunt of the volatility, but calling for PUNITIVE measures on higher population servers is selfish, short sighted and frankly – juvenile.

A little ? SoS and Mags players, please send your thoughts to this TC bandwagoner.

There are a few steps in problem solving :

Step 1 : Recognising there is an issue.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/wuv/Server-Match-up-is-TERRIBLE/first

17,721 views cannot be wrong. It is not for benefit of a few, Mr Rawr of TC, tier 2 server, lucky matchups so far ? Look at Magumma, ranked 7th server, best of Tier 3 ? Do you think they enjoyed their 3 weeks so far ? Rank no 1, 2 and 3 server will always have normal conditions (matchup against each other) or better (matchup against lower servers). They will never experience getting trashed by a much superior server say there was a rank 0 server before rank 1. This also means that transfers to these 3 servers will keep continue because GW2 is a game and bigger zerg = win win win. Ultimately, it will affect everyone WvW or PvE players on these 3 servers it is overloaded. The population gap between Tier 1 and 2 will also increase because there is no stopping transfers.

Step 2 : Brainstorming for ideas.

This is for posters and readers to participate in, discuss and give sensible facts to disagree.

Step 3 : Gathering tools to implement ideas.

Anet development / programming staff have limited time too. Using and expanding existing tools to do changes is more effective than coming up with brilliant but hard to code stuff. There is already outmanned buff code in GW2, this can be easily tweaked to increase buffs to small servers or = penalty to big zergs.

PvE population and WvW population can also be split. The login screen gives total population. Anet can obtain WvW population by polling server queue times / frequency every 8 hours ( NA, EU and Oceanic ). This information can be presented to us to make a decision which server to go to / not to go to.

Bandwagoners have the most reason to oppose a tax since they spent a large amount of gems to enjoy zerging behind the actual WvW players to earn easy WXP / rank and level up low characters. By imposing tax on WXP gains to very low on high WvW population, you separate the bandwagoners and the actual WvWers that care more about fights than ranks. Fairweather bandwagoners will transfer off servers quickly if there was a -80% WXP gains compared to low population servers and serious WvWers enjoy shorter queues and less frustration.

To appease the bandwagoners, just give a period of free transfers for higher ranked servers to lower ranked. Say a Magumma bear (rank 7) wants to jump ship to become a Yak ( rank, it is free.

Step 4 : Finetune the changes.

E.g. -80% WXP no effect ? Fix it to -150% etc.
Or -80% WXP caused a ghost server ? Fix it to -50%.

There are 24 NA servers. If by design, WvW is balanced for High WvW population, then Full WvW population = penalty and Low WvW population = buff.

If no action is taken, 3 to 6 (Tier 1 and 2) servers will continue to swell with WvW transfers at the expense of 24 – 6 = 18 servers. That is a lot of hardware capacity wasted.

Bad idea. As if we need more disposable guardians.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ring_of_Warding
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Line_of_Warding

Throw in some Mesmer null fields with several ACs and it will be shooting fish in a barrel. Think of the lag created when trolls build fencing like those barricades at concerts. Yes, some people have too much time and they will do it.

Buffs and Penalties are actually the same thing depending on which side you are on. A penalty to player A = a buff to player B fighting him.

If you mouse over the outmanned icon, you will see that it actually has 33% increased experience , 10% WXP and 20% MF .

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Outmanned

I don’t know about you guys, but whenever we see that buff, the guild goes crazy and hunt down that server, knowing that they are just meat to devour and lootbags to own. It’s a “kick me” sign stapled to the back of the player. Most of the time, the said server ends up at their spawning base camped and not able to come out.

If we look at football league matches, the side that has 1 player red carded usually loses. We are talking about 11 a side football / soccer matches. It’s what a big difference 1 player makes. More-over, there is a transfer window where players are bought / transferred from clubs before the season starts and no transfer.

The guesting and party system means that dungeons and world pve content have not much influence on server transfers. Most transfer are due to WvW and the fact is that the winning servers have the most people going there. There is no "full "server that is not either in Tier 1 or 2. Numbers = WvW win.

Maybe the idea is that players will call their non GW2-playing friends to play this game to boost their population so that their server can win. Only Anet can tell if this strategy works or are servers just canabalizing other servers’ players.

This week, the three former Tier 1 server are grouped together again after 2 weeks and they are complaining in their matchup thread. They are not here to look for a challenge. They want to have weaker opponents to crush.

There has to be some brainstorming done to entice population to move from full to low population servers.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/wuv/Spreading-WvW-population-using-tax/first#post2216545

You can raise the supply needed to build siege, eg AC from 30 to 60 and then give outmanned servers +100% supply carry. A tax can be presented in the form of bluff using sneaky ways.

On the Brightside, it’s summertime and Dragonbash event is on for those taking a break from WvW. Before it was Southsun Cove event.

It might be coincidence but there is always a PvE event available for those servers designated as the victim server to be bashed up every week since the matchup equation change.

Some servers are full while others are low population. Despite the expensive one time server transfer cost and long WvW map queues, many players still want to transfer to a full server as WvW rewards the server that can field a larger army.

Supply in WvW is the summary for logistics in GW2 but it is flawed in that it does not mirror real life army logistics or upkeep costs in other games.

Server A has 50 people and 2 camps . It sends 20 to run supply and has 30 left over to fight. Server B has 30 people and 2 camps. It sends 20 to run supply and has 10 left to get stomped by server B’s 30. In comparision, for an army in the real world, there are costs of maintaining a large force in terms of logistics support ( food, water, ammunition, housing) in your country or in hostile territory. In classic games like Civilization, having a large army means higher gold upkeep costs and unhappy population in cities. In GW2, having a large army means you win. There is no downside or upkeep costs.

To keep programming costs down, we can use the same measuring tools that measures each map’s population for queue management and take that data over 6 hour intervals. Currently we have world bonuses that rewards WvW success, but only a small percentage of WvW players cares about that.

World penalties to reflect upkeep costs of having a large army should be implemented. Examples such as :

(a) – 50% supply carried by each player for full population server. so instead of 10 people carrying 100 supply to build a treb, they need 20 people.

(b) + 50% gold cost and time needed for tower/keep/castle upgrading. They have more players to contribute gold and it makes upgrades more valuable to a zergy server to guard rather than the cap, abandon and recap tactic.

© – 50% WXP earned for full population servers. This will be a very strong incentive for bandwagoners that leech off skilled WvWers to move to a low population server to earn their WvW ranks. I am sure many of you experienced a whole horde of casual players stopping to cap a sentry flag for miserable WXP while vent and map chat is going crazy asking for help to reinforce keep with inner door at 20%.

The new matchup equation every week is refreshing but it is basically rotating which server gets to be victim and who does the bullying. GW2 is a game and like football matches / track and field competitions, everyone wants to win. Winning matters, guild members are like football fans – demand winning results from their teams. The new matchup equations means that to have more wins than losses, you transfer your guild to a T1 server which are all zergy full . The worst case scenario for a T1 server is that they face 2 other T1 servers – which is the norm before matchup equation change : no biggie. But it means that the week after, they get matchup with other T2 or T3 or T4 servers and get to bash/bully them up badly.

Lets use an analogy of cars / vehicles on highways / expressways. To control or regulate the traffic flow , we use tolls / charges. There are the penalties for using these congested roads during peak hours and it works. Full servers hurt the players and Low population servers also hurt from under usage and getting trashed every week ( ask ET ). Using WvW penalties will encourage casual guilds to move to low population servers rather than stick to high population sure win most of the time full servers. A T1 full server will also have more penalty against a T4 high/medium server. If the T4 server has such skilful WvW population, they will rise and continue to enjoy less penalties. If bandwagoners start to join this T4 server and bring it from high population to full, they get maximum penalty and will cause the T4 server to drop again. A lot of focus has been on the T1 servers, little has been done for the T8 servers. Who wants to transfer their guild to the lowest of the low in T8 ? Eventually, you just have to shut it down for under usage.

Everybody loves bears, except them hunters with the big rifles. I heard it’s a gaming sport in the USA.

mclovin.8561:

So CD will be umm well PvE week lol. We got the wrong matchup I MISS YOU YAKS AND KAIN!!! LOL!!!! TC no love to many zerg balls lol.

hehe, did it take you that long to realise that YB and Kain had a cunning plan ? Have fun

Wheeeeeeeee YB and Kain, married for life !

Gonna be lottas miscommunication with EB meaning Eternal Battlegrounds and Ehmry Bay. Calling them bay also confusion since it means the Keep at Bay. Maybe we call them :

(a) Baby ?
(b) Baywatch ?
© Elephants ?
(d) Ebay ?

This is a very lucky matchup as each server have their own prime time when they have numbers and other servers do not. This means every server gets their turn to win in their primetime. Maximizing fun, WXP and ego

Keep your fingers crossed for three times lucky tomorrow.

btw, just a headsup to people about Fridays, 12 hours before match reset. Rankings usually decided by then and upgrades on keeps and forts do not really mean much at that time since they revert to non-upgraded at reset. Our unofficial usual practise with the Yaks running still awake at that time is to maximize WXP earned / per hour and avoid headon clashes with each other.

You will notice strange naked / badly dressed low level characters zerging from objective to objective and not defending at all. You could call this " Operation WXP Flip Exchange "

Just go for the most familiar path to appease your guildies. Go to Dragonwagon, it’s exactly like Kaineng on the way up.

Big and strong SEA / Oceanic with bandwagon NA guilds jumping in all over. No stress, just follow the blue triangle and win win win everytime you login to WvW. The feel good factor of winning and claiming to be in Tier 2 / Tier 1 epic fights will give ego boost. Logon to low levels and level up fast, earn WvW ranks fast and boast to friends.

Just a short note : It would be nice for matchup threads to be named in alphabetical order : CD – KN – YB

Good luck to all. May your loot bags be filled with precursors !

toudaloo bear boys.

loot bags, loot bags,
watcha gonna do, watcha gonna do
when they come for you.

Game Menu > General Options > Profanity Filter > On

Reporting a player for a rude word is pretty lame. Please do not waste the valuable time of a GM.

I like your posts John. You give information which promotes discussion, even if of different views.

I understand the part with limited diversity of stats in spvp gear and a particular profession / build may not perform as well without stacking certain stats but the same disadvantages apply to your opponent.

I agree with what you say kat, but in spvp, you will probably not die in 2 blows to a thief with 25 stacks of might as your gear is exotic and the thief does not have access to ascended + food buffs. In WvW, there are a lot of people running around low levels and lvl 80s with just enough gold to use rare (yellow) gear. It is much easier to make a video of being “godly madskillz” in WvW compared to spvp.

John Widdin.9618:

Not on a meaningful scale, or similar stat allocations. I can’t replicate the stats on my engineer in Spvp, nor can I use food buffs, etc.

I interprete that as you do not have access to ascended gear and lvl 80 food buffs which means you will not have the extra advantage of a few hundred stat points over your opponents. you will be exactly the same as your opponent and hence why it is fair and best way to gauge skill.

There are plenty of uplevels with outdated gear in WvW. you can tell when they get smashed by 1 or 2 blows. That’s why I dun even bother to watch thiefs videos on their “conquests” in WvW.

Isn’t sPvP the best way to gauge a guild group’s skill ?

Isn’t there something called sPvP ? Once you step into WvW, so many factors to cancel out skill :

(1) Gear
(2) Level
(3) Uneven numbers

If you are as good as you believe yourselves to be, the Tier 1 servers have scouts that will approach your guild and offer to pay all the gem transfer costs.

The reason you are not aware is because these scouts have not approached your guild with this offer.

Considering that WM attracted guilds to Kaineng to bring us from T8 to T2 and Magumma being a persistent T3 despite SO MANY CLAIMS of guilds beating them and claiming to be better … the facts does not match.

(1) All the uber guilds of Magumma could not bring the server up from T3.

(2) Every week, the said guilds struggle in the matchup against a weakened Kaineng.

(3) WM is welcomed by any T1 server and they would pay all the gems they want to join their server, how many guilds in Magumma are so desired ?

(4) WM is fighting in Tier 1 against the most skilled and proven guilds / commanders in GW2, the said guilds are still languishing here in Magumma.

Red and Blue match well Very pretty.

Put your gems where your mouth is. Transfer to JQ / SoR and fight WM on BG. You know they speak a different language and won’t be here to challenge you.

That’s using the real data from saturday, the only random being the roll multiplier.

Most servers have stabilised after these weeks of fighting and the ratio of the scores should not change drastically. If the 3 servers in Tier 3 are still staying together after the change in matchups, it would not be a change rite ?

you mad bro ?

/dance

Are 2 WvW bear guilds still abandoning their server ? Morale must be very low there.

Kaineng is in the lead, although score aint gonna mean much. We are going to the Premier League next week for vs rank 1 and rank 3 server.

6 more days to join Kaineng in the top bracket.

woot !

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/Arrow-cart-view-exploit-2-minor-question

Reminds me of funny guild names : " It burns when I PvP "

Dun panic, pain gone in a week.

I hear that some WvW bear guilds wanting to transfer up Tiers to get more competitive fights. I understand some are feeling sore that Kaineng gets to fight for free than having to pour massive gold for the transfers. Some just gets lucky at the lottery

P.S. If you hurry, it’s cheaper to transfer to Kaineng now for the same fighting deal. Added benefit of no one will call you bandwagoning since everyone knows our NA/EU coverage is low

Apparently, the devs are absolutely riveted with Kaineng’s evolution and decided to pair us with rank 1 and rank 3 servers in next week’s matchup.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/New-matchup-system-official-info

Although it’s an ego boost to all Kaineng WvWers that we are deemed good enough for T1 ( sorry bears, no honey for u ) , it might be too soon for our re-established forces.

Commanders need to get together to discuss their thoughts on how to go through next week.

(a) Should we have a break week to revitalise and ignore a super-unbalanced matchup ?

(b) Should we just run academy / training sessions in our citadel and ignore all scores ?

© Grit our teeth and go for numerous 4 hour battles and hopeful learn more tactics but come out sore and tired ?

(d) Sell our services as mercenary forces to either the rank 1 or rank 3 to fill up our server war fund ?

The new matchups will eradicate the meaning of Tiers and matchups will depend on server score plus deviation. The new way to measure success in WvW will be server ranking which is still based on score. After next week matchup, Kaineng’s score will probably decrease which will drop us in server ranking ( Kaineng is 8th now) but I am not sure how deviation will go. Kaineng has an abnormally high deviation due to guilds transferring away a month ago, which means old ghosts coming back to haunt us again. We are in for interesting times folks.

P.S. This potential matchup might change with results from this week but Kaineng’s deviation score is so abnormal we are probably gonna be dumped with 2 other high ranked servers.

kfarb.6732:

Complain about anet not fixing arrow carts, not a handful of people exploiting the windowed mode oversight on each and every server.

I totally disagree with your thoughts on this. Arrow Carts are usable by all so it’s fair to all. When they tweak / fix it, everyone will be affected.

Smart placements can be learned but there is a fine line between lame and fair on this.

Exploits by even just one bad sheep benefits the whole server in WvW during that time. The damage from a superior AC in a position untouchable by enemy is horribly lame and should be addressed as soon as possible. It’s is fun when you are the one using that superior AC to shred the enemy and feel superior godlike but when you are on the receiving end, it’s not so fun. I am sure these exploits are not by design and should be addressed as soon as possible as they degrade the WvW experience.

Arrow Carts are designed to have low health and have a dead zone to balance it’s AOE capabilities. In a big fight with 30 on each side, an exploiter using one superior AC can benefit tremendously his 30 friends but give the 30 opponents a terrible time. In total, it affects 60 people. An analogy is : Shooting fish in a barrel becomes boring after some time.

Shads.9468:

PS that ~6 hour defence of our West Keep almost breaks the all time record, which belongs to another oceanic zerg (db) which topped out at 7 hours i think (and we didn’t lose it then either). Maybe next time

Big salute to Kaineng forces for their tenacity and courage. As long as you keep trying and improving yourselves, WvW will be more fun as you roll over the enemy forces in the field till they fear you so much that they just hide up in their tower.

Achievements this week for a ex-T2 / T8 server :

(1) Retaking Fully Upgraded Kaineng Hills
(2) Taking Fully Upgraded enemy borderlands Garrison guarded by their elite guilds
(3) Ability to retake SM Castle multiple times
(4) Successful defence of EB Keep

The improvements are there, keep fighting the good fight !

Someone miss me already ?

The number of Kaineng active posters on WvW threads can be counted using 1 hand. I don’t think either of us consider ourselves spokespeople for the server but rather offer a perspective as your opponents in matchups.

If you take a look at T2 currently, DB and TC has new imports and FA is frantically trying to recruit more. This may not be every server’s cup of tea as some players are contented to just get out on the field and fight.

Who’s to say that the servers in T4, T5, T6, T7 and T8 are not having more fun than T1 or T2 servers ?

I kinda understand why public vent don’t work now. when I extend a helping hand, to get such reply … judge for yourselves.

There is a quick and easy way to solve this but it requires your own proactive initiative.

GW2 allows players to join multiple guilds and but only represent one at a time.

Pick a time slot that you usually play WvW , join with a guild active in WvW at that time slot. Get to know the members and join their vent. Learn new tactics and coordination with them.

I would be happy to help recommend active WvW kaineng guilds if you drop me a mail with your timezone ( NA, EU or Oceanic ) with languages you understand.

ok yaks, free consultation is over, one piece of goat’s cheese per advice now.

Some folks gotta make up their minds whether to call Kaineng an ex-T2 or a T8 server. As far as I am concerned, we still kicking butts and making our opponents put in sentry and spying duties rather than fun game times !

Kaineng is getting stronger as the new pvers get better in wvw and more actually level up to lvl 80. Of course we always enjoyed Karaoke Nights

GuardianOMS.8067:

Sol.8341:

Nobody in real life military service enjoys sentry duty.

Maybe that’s why it’s not actually happening.

This is the sort of stuff you need an opposing team to tell you

Lucky you are not one of the poor grunts / recruits.

Thread got a bit depressing and heavy to read , so I popped over to T4 matchup thread. Amazing how right I was on Magumma :

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/Tier-4-SoS-CD-SBI-5-10-13

Can we get back to WvW ? so many Magumma forum posters ganging up on one person, it’s like bullying. If your server were trying to recruit any other guilds to progress to Tier 2, they would see your posts and I doubt they want to join your community.

Darkwing.2081:

It was fun fighting with you when you were on Maguuma, Zero. I always liked the way you stayed (mostly) calm and were able to take basically anyone who was willing to follow you and make an effective fighting force. Herding cats isn’t the easiest of jobs but you excel at it.

Finally a non-bashing post from a Magumma player. Zero certainly has the balls to come to a server under represented during NA timezone to take on a difficult job. I have yet to seen you lead so I can’t comment on how proficient you are, but admiration for your bravery ! Your actions > the forum posts.

Very kind words to say

But you used “probably” and “individual skills” . Teamwork is important in WvW so nope, we still not gonna give him any credit for that picture link. It’s like a deer jumping out in front of a truck. Who stops and takes a picture in that situation ? I see at least 15-20 enemy rushing him. He even took the trouble to blank out chat window.

zastari.1730:

Ya those were some really close and even fights

http://i.imgur.com/8kT9egK.jpg

How amazingly bad at counting are you? Anyway we had fun working on handling outmanned fighting and getting a wipe on y’all once was pretty nice.

By the way, when you say you’re “Zerg busting” it typically means you’re busting a zerg with a small group. It doesn’t usually mean “trying to run over a force half your size and running away a lot”. You may want to check your definitions.

Are you someone important in Deerp ? I see the red targting crosshairs on your head in the picture. we generally ignore Deerp because they are not as good as the other guilds on magumma. sorry, but we can’t give priority to killing you over others.

Amazing how fast and many magumma posters active here compared to Kain and YB.

If this mirrors the active population of WvW players, I say Magumma WINS in forum zerging.

It’s also pretty sad how fast you turn on a former comrade once he switched servers.

I dun see what civil discussions you have here. It’s usually about :

(1) fight club ganking. pointing fingers who ganked who
(2) fight club boasting of wins over more opponents
(3) complaining enemy zerg size
(4) complementing own server of what a fine job in epic battle u won over bigger odds.

GuardianOMS.8067:

Earlier tonight? So 60 Maguuma players during oceanic prime? I doubt that, even on a weekend. But congrats on destroying players coming through a choke, you win WvW!

Yak’s Bend have the lowest Oceanic time population. Magumma is fully capable of fielding 20 at their worst hour, but on average they have 40 on a single map at oceanic time.

Dun be fooled, Magumma does chokepoints with 5 superior ACs minimum but they hate the other servers learning to use them to defend. Congrats to YB. I hope you guys are taking advantage of Kaineng resetting Mag BL Keeps upgrades when you logon. You have a chance of no. 1 this week.

Kaineng is still slow to adapt to the Age of Arrowcarts. In open field fights, we wiped Magumma so many times they just give up and turtle in their keeps, whining about 500 supply not enough to build arrow carts to defend.

Magumma’s full of contradiction. They whine about the occasional AC in the field but are often happy to engage the enemy outside their keeps with minimum 5 ACs supporting them from top of walls.

AC blueprints cost 6 silver each and 30 supply to build. 3 persons can build one up quickly. You get minimum 60 silver from one CoF path 1 dungeon run. In 10mins of pve, u can buy 10 AC blueprints. I hope the NA players can start teaching the rest of kainengs and encourage them to use ACs . In Oceanic timezone, we run havoc across Magumma borderlands in epic keep battles. Their commander whines that 500 supply is not enough for their ACs ( 500 divided by 30 = 16 carts), they need 1700 ( 56 carts) apparently.

Kaineng, the age of WM is over. You have to adapt and with low population, it is very important to use siege machines. Not just commanders, but u should have AC blueprints in your backpack with character that steps into WvW. You know the opponent is already doing so, if you don’t adapt and learn to defend, forever gonna be on disadvantage.