Guild Wars 2

Lpfan.3578:

My Thief is only level 23 right now, but I don’t find him much harder to level than I found my level 80 guardian to level at the start! Guardian used greatsword mostly when leveling.
Thief mostly dagger/dagger so far. I can take on 3 creatures of equal, or even slightly higher level and usually beat them fairly easily just by using Death Blossom skill and sometimes tossing Caltrops and/or Needle Trap in. My traits so far are into condition damage and some into precision. The massive bleeds from using Death Blossom a few times is enough to kill a lot of stuff.

No offense, but then you are probably playing Guardian wrong.

At lower levels (say, sub 20) Guardian damage with a greatsword is flat out higher than a thief’s, plus the various defensive/healing tools they have baked in from the get go.

Thief does get some neat stuff, but it comes later. Much later.

Jack of Tears.9458:

Thief is comin’ up a lot in this thread, so I gotta weigh in here. I agree with people about learning your class limits and requirements early on. My first class was the Thief and boy is she her own kind of squishy, but I’m glad I had to learn that in my first ten levels than find that out 30 levels later.

It’s also a big issue about skill – and that’s somewhere this game is different from all those fire and forget MMOs. You learn real fast with that Thief that dodge, move, strafe, flank, etc. are big deals in this game and that combat takes more than just thinking about how much damage a power does.

Thief isn’t necessarily harder than any other class in the game, it’s just different and you want to find that out early in if you’re coming off of another class. Just like I want to know how well a Fighter tanks vs a Guardian, and want to see Engineer kits in action. The first ten levels really are your “is this class for me” period, so the best and worst need to jump right in your face there.

I know Thief is no harder to play at low levels than an Ele, because I’ve gone back and leveled a thief a bit in another race … and knowing how to use the class I died no more than I did with any other low level character. (though I had more fun) It’s all about knowing -what- to do, and the tutorial zone/levels is the place to find all that out.

Oh and on the side of that, Thief is a class where sticking to one thing – melee or range – early on isn’t generally a good idea. So use those Pistols on melee guys and then jump in with a Melee weapon on ranged dudes. (and use Blind and Smoke Screen against ranged guys) Weapon swap or combos with distance closers are a good friend for the class. What with that all said, I level using mostly Dual Pistols until level 30 – so it can totally be done. (circle strafe and dodge, circle strafe and dodge)

Again, I’m fairly sure you leveled P/P pre stealth not dropping threat change. My issue isn’t that my thief requires a bit more attention to play early level. My issue is that it’s flat out worse early level because a ton of stuff unlocks much, much later. Elemental is definately not as hard – damage is insane, as is healing. Thief gets barely any AOE until later, and almost no self healing. Initiative only gets it’s major regen/interaction traits way later.

If I want to do well, I’m pidgeonholed into 1 or 2 weapon specs, neither of which I consider fun.

Leveling shouldn’t just be ‘grrr make it ultra hard so people L2P asap’. It should also be a time when people are free to experiment and find their own style with the class.

Baeyne.9584:

I had a similar experience when playing a thief as my first character, it was so squishy that I would die every time a monster so much as looked at me.

That’s the reason why I played a Warrior, and it was the first toon I got to level 80.

After three months into the game, I decided to level my thief again since I really wanted to play that profession in the first place.

My thief is now my main toon.

Looking back, I think it was because I was spoiled in that “other game that must not be named” that I had trouble with the first few levels of gameplay as a non-heavy armored profession.

That, and this game being on a slightly different level in leveling experience than that “other game that must no be named”. GW2 kind of requires you to know your class when you play a non-heavy armor profession.

As for leveling a thief, you can find a lot of guides in the thief forum.

Having said that, I CAN recommend playing a dual pistol thief. I myself am playing one and I’m having fun with it.

BUT, I find the dual pistol build to be at a disadvantage when leveling. Dagger/pistol or sword/pistol tends to be MUCH better due to the fact that your number 5 (and number 3, if your D/P) skill can keep your opponents blinded (and unable to hit you) for 4 secs. It is also does not have a CD (except for its cost in initiative).

You can also pretty much face tank every kind of mob below the level of champion with D/P or S/P.

I really hate the ‘blind with black powder and autoattack’ style of play :|.

Have you tried leveling P/P since they changed stealth not to reset aggro? Your main defensive tool costs so many resources that you can’t do anything besides autoattack, which does virtually no damage (P mainhand is abysmal) and you have no AOE at all.

D/D does less damage single target and aoe than my guardian at low levels. Significantly so. And that is dumb, for a glasscannon class.

Wiser with Age.3714:

If you’re dying constantly as a Thief, then you’re playing a combat style that’s not well suited to your personal tastes. My own Thief uses Sword/Pistol and it makes leveling remarkably easy. Between Pistol #5 spam while you Sword #1 everything down or through using Combo #3 when you’re against Champions / dredge, you’ve always got something up your sleeve. I personally like S/P because it is far more about holding a specific area of land than it is about dodging like a butterfly.

For reference, P/P is considered to be one of the weakest Thief weapon sets and it’s not something that you’d want to play through on your 1st Thief character.

S/P seems to be the top spec for leveling, with D/D being pretty popular too. I just really don’t want to be a melee thief :|

RedCobra.7693:

Solo.9027:

Starbird.4029:

I really enjoy my guardian, but I am not a fan of the plate sets (why oh why can’t there be some sort of Heavy ‘coat’ look?).

Try the heavy arah legs, they have a but-cape that looks like a trenchcoat.

Lmao Yeah i agree, also Norn cultural tier 3 gives a cloak look

Thanks But I’m really after something closer to that deadly Miststalker look.

Silentsins.3726:

RebelYell.7132:

Agree with you wholly. In addition, after the Cataclysm revamp, I never found myself underleveled for the zone I was in, but meanwhile, I keep having to pick a new starting zone in GW2 because the one I’m in had the recommended level for all the hearts go red.

Heh… it only took several years for that to be the case. My early Cataclysm experience was leveing a Druid bear tank and realizing that I was completely unable to tank low-level dungeons due to a complete lack of aoe skills until level 40 or so. They didn’t change that until a month into the expansion.

A balanced experience is a reiterative process, and it’s never a quick one…

Starbird.4029:

Why does ‘l2p’ equal ‘l2 use x weapons because y weapons aren’t viable until z level’. This is the kind of mindset that made me hate WoW.

There’s always going to be certain weapons/traits/whatever that are better for some aspects of the game than others. That’s not unique to this game. Why would leveling be different? Anything is viable while leveling, it’s simply that you’re going to have an easier time with certain set-ups than others. Leveling with a shortbow is about as easy as it gets in this game. No one is telling you to forgo other options, just be aware of what you’re getting into with other options.

Snow White.9680:

No one is saying you’re a bad player, we’re saying you need to learn to play. Everyone does when they pick up a new game.

“L2P” has always been a derogatory meme.

P/P is a very distinctive archetype. It’s similar to a different dps spec in WoW. All of those are viable to level as, and mostly fairly consistent. Sure, your Sub rogue may have slightly more trouble in certain areas, but nobody is going to tell you that it’s not viable for leveling – or suggest that, if it was, that it was working as intended.

Anyhoo, I’m off to bed. Please keep it on topic and constructive if possible.

RebelYell.7132:

Starbird.4029:

RebelYell.7132:

Starbird.4029:

Vol.5241:

I agree with what some other people say here…L2P

If you’re not gonna bother learning your class, utilizing dodge and most importantly, upgrading your gear, then you’re going to have a bad time.

Not to mention, some weapons are better than others.

When solo lvling, aoe skills are a must

Aargh.

Why does ‘l2p’ equal ‘l2 use x weapons because y weapons aren’t viable until z level’. This is the kind of mindset that made me hate WoW.

Really. Are the ‘if you don’t agree with me on an aspect of the game then you are a bad player’ people this common here too?

They’re worse here. WoW L2Pers at least have a sense of humor, even if it involves Chuck Norris and arrows inside of knees.

Really? Sigh, if that’s the case I may just call it a day. One of the things that brought me over here was rumours of a nice online community. :|

Oh, I like Tarnished Coast’s community a lot. I have no doubt other server communities are good too. Here, on these forums, however, you’ll find a vacuous echo tunnel for developer statements.

Sea of Sorrows seems to be decent too. But wow…this forum community can be something else. I’ve never understood the whole ‘if you don’t like it then get out’ attitude towards class suggestions. I’d rather make a suggestion regarding something I dislike in the hopes of getting it changed.

I’m still not seeing why making all classes relatively similar power wise at the get go would be a bad thing.

Snow White.9680:

No one is saying you’re a bad player, we’re saying you need to learn to play. Everyone does when they pick up a new game.

You’re pointing fingers at guild wars 2 and saying it’s learning curve is too steep and we’re telling you that we don’t think it is at all. Honestly if you think low levels are bad I feel sorry for you when you get to cursed shore.

Bottomline is: You can’t stand still on a thief and take hits to the face. You just can’t. Maybe thief isn’t for you.

I’m not asking to be a thief tank.

What I’m asking for is, as another poster above stated, the ‘cannon’ in our glass cannon to be made available earlier.

Do you think it’s working as intended for my thief’s damage output in aoe situations to be so pitiful compared to my guardian for the first chunk of the leveling experience?

ALL classes should require a similar amount of skill and investment to level. That is all I’m trying to say. And I don’t know why people act like that’s a bad suggestion.

RebelYell.7132:

Starbird.4029:

Vol.5241:

I agree with what some other people say here…L2P

If you’re not gonna bother learning your class, utilizing dodge and most importantly, upgrading your gear, then you’re going to have a bad time.

Not to mention, some weapons are better than others.

When solo lvling, aoe skills are a must

Aargh.

Why does ‘l2p’ equal ‘l2 use x weapons because y weapons aren’t viable until z level’. This is the kind of mindset that made me hate WoW.

Really. Are the ‘if you don’t agree with me on an aspect of the game then you are a bad player’ people this common here too?

They’re worse here. WoW L2Pers at least have a sense of humor, even if it involves Chuck Norris and arrows inside of knees.

Really? Sigh, if that’s the case I may just call it a day. One of the things that brought me over here was rumours of a nice online community. :|

Theoldman.6483:

Being old and slow (can’t dodge or kite worth a hoot) I found that armor and builds makes considerable difference.
In WOW I was never able to level the rogue. In GW2 it took a couple of attempts but I got my Thief to level 80 relatively quickly. For me it did require more frequent armor upgrades. I also found that as I leveled each profession, the next profession got easier. I also found that by starting with the right profession to learn the game made a big difference. For me I went in the following sequence : Guardian, Ranger, Warrior, Elem, Thief, Nerco, Mesmer. Granted the order is somewhat interest oriented and I’m not suggesting a guardian is easier than a range or warrior. Note that the engineer is missing from the list. I have tried 4 times to level 20 and just can not get into that profession.

Oddly, I had no hassles with my rogue in WoW, even in early Wrath. In GW2 though, I really want to play a gunslinger archetype, but to even stand a chance at enjoying it, I need to wait until a lot later to access certain traits.

Vol.5241:

I agree with what some other people say here…L2P

If you’re not gonna bother learning your class, utilizing dodge and most importantly, upgrading your gear, then you’re going to have a bad time.

Not to mention, some weapons are better than others.

When solo lvling, aoe skills are a must

Aargh.

Why does ‘l2p’ equal ‘l2 use x weapons because y weapons aren’t viable until z level’. This is the kind of mindset that made me hate WoW.

Really. Are the ‘if you don’t agree with me on an aspect of the game then you are a bad player’ people this common here too?

RebelYell.7132:

Mirta.5029:

I think that it’s good that it’s this way. It gives you a feel for the class early on. Thieves are squishier than guardians. You will notice this in early game and in late game. If you don’t like the class early on chances are you won’t like it down the road.

Warriors are also squishier than Guardians, but make up for it by being able to down enemies faster. Thieves do not. If thieves can even become a glass cannon, they do not get the “cannon” part until deep into the trait tree.

Bingo. I think a BIG part of it is less mechanical and more numerical, early on, as well as having to wait a lot longer to access essential tools.

Seras.5702:

I’ll say that when I tried rolling a priest back in TBC days of WoW it was a nightmare. Later rolled one during Cata and it was a cinch. It took years of redesign and updates, etc to get WoW where it is. GW2 has been out for less than 9 months. Having said that…

I like that the game forces you to learn your profession’s mechanics even at an early level. A guardian can get away with facetanking as long as it has its boons, a thief needs to learn mobility, a mesmer needs to understand how to effectively use its illusions/clones. First character I ever rolled in GW2 was an ele and it was insanely squishy. Didn’t like it. Rolled a ranger and it was so much fun. Later I went back and tried ele again and since I was more comfortable with GW2’s general combat mechanics it was easier to grasp the specific ele mechanics that are more complex than say a ranger or guardian.

Keep at it. Some professions are more complex, but that doesn’t make them bad. Just more involved, which imo is good.

Again, it’s also a matter of early game numbers. A thief doesn’t get much damage until quite a bit later (which is why people advise to level them with crafting initially by feeding mats from a higher level char).

I’m fine with learning mechanics etc. I just wish the experience was more consistent.

Also – I really don’t think advising a new player ‘oh, just avoid x class until you have a max level of y class’ is really acceptable advise.

Cameirus.8407:

how do you die on a mesmer? seriously, how?

I levelled mine and the only issue I had was finding enough mobs to round up to make it interesting.

You can faceroll multiple vets and champs on a mesmer.

Not sure about thief, I’m not a fan of that type of class, but maybe you need to adapt your playstyle.

Guardians can to an extent just tank stuff, other classes have to move more to avoid dmg.

I mostly mean thief here, to be honest.

It’s not even just survive-ability. My guardian has far more dps (and aoe! ye gods!) from the get go. My thief has fairly weak damage and bugger all AOE until quite late.

Snow White.9680:

I hate to make a ‘L2P’ post but ..

It sounds like you need to just get used to the game and the way it plays. Utilize your dodge when you see the enemy queuing up an attack. Each type of mob has 1 or 2 heavy hitters that have tells so you can always dodge them.

Try different wepon combinations, one raged and one melee. Or one offensive and one defensive. For example mesmer staff is an excellent leveling option because it has so many defensive abilities. Couple that with your favorite offensive weapons (sword/sword/focus/great sword/pistol/scepter) and the mesmer can be a breeze to level with. I had the most success on my theif leveling with a shortbow when handling more than 1 mob, but everyone’s different.

Pay special attention to what your attacks do. A lot of them combo with others (even from different weapons) to give you powerful boons. Some even have built in evades or a way for you to become immune to all dmg for a couple seconds. Once you learn to time these spells right you realize just how easy this game is.

I hate L2P posts…and I knew they would be coming.

I don’t think of myself as a bad player. I play a lot of games and have been for nearly 30 years! And as I’ve said, I don’t mind challenging leveling content.

I just think that the early experience could stand to be smoothed out a tad. Feel free to ramp up the difficulty later.

In terms of thieves, it’s more of an issue of defensive and self healing traits being way too late in the game, while other classes get healing passives and neat defensive tools from the get go.

Naqaj.6219:

Having players learn early how to play their class to survive, instead of allowing them to just waltz through cannon fodder enemies seems the better choice to me tbh. And I can’t say I noticed much of a difference in difficulty when leveling a Guardian to leveling a Thief, just had to by more mindful of my skills’ secondary effects. If anything, playing Thief was actually more interesting.

The issue isn’t in leveling difficulty. I’m all for meaningful leveling content and it’s one of the things that drew me away from WoW to this game.

The issue is that some classes can simply rock the casbah from the get go, while others have an uphill fight for a long time. I’ve seen a ton of people advising to level thieves and mesmers to 40+ through crafting because they rely on traits and skills that do not unlock for a long time.

Leveling my thief – if I go dual daggers or one of the ‘cheese’ specs it’s a pain, but bearable. If I want to level my thief with dual pistols (which is what I want to do), it’s a bloody nightmare.

Honestly, balance isn’t all just numbers and isn’t all just endgame. If I have to invest 100% more effort into leveling one class than another…something is squiffy. And needs to be looked at.

WoW is 8 years old and is only now approaching a rough 10% balance between classes.

That said, I do with ANet were more like the guys at DCUO – for all it’s failings, when that game went live we saw almost weekly balance updates and almost nobody was left out in the cold.

As anyone who has read a recent post from me will attest, a big part of my enjoyment of this game is being sapped by my desire to play a Medium armor class (oh my those sets are gorgeous) but the spec I want to level as simply being non-viable.

So – a bit of advice here. I adore the look of the medium armor in this game, but aside from the P/P Thief (which I have been told and have found out the hard way is simply not a viable leveling PvE spec), none of the medium armor classes appeal to me.

Engi’s – gah. Too gimmicky.
Ranger – Not a fan of pets.
Thief – Not a fan of dying endlessly.

I really enjoy my guardian, but I am not a fan of the plate sets (why oh why can’t there be some sort of Heavy ‘coat’ look?).

So – if you could choose a class that was fun to play but no fun to look at, or cool looking but a nightmare to level as…which would you pick?

Mm. Going to focus on getting my Guardian to 80 and maybe using it to bankroll a thief up to a level where it starts being fun. D/D or any melee honestly just doesn’t appeal to me.

If you buff P/P to be a viable leveling/PvE spec (just give it some AOE, more range, reduce init costs slightly and give them a little bit more tankiness early game) I will love you forever.

But I’m sure there are workarounds for condition caps? I mean WoW had the same problem and it was fixed…8 years ago.

All P/P needs is to focus either on direct damage or conditions (not both), better AOE and some better tools for mobility and better range.

I started GW2 with the hopes of leveling and enjoying all aspects of the game as a dual pistols gunslinger. After being told to ‘l2p’ by a lot of people, being threatened with being kicked from groups if I didn’t use a different weapon set and being killed endlessly by mobs that my Guardian could just roll over 3 levels below me, I shelved her.

When P/P is made better, I may come back.

It needs a more reliable AOE and either better mobility tools or more tankiness.

dzeRnumbrd.6129:

I wouldn’t give up on p/p – it just isn’t really a PvE weapon set. You level with something else and then you can use p/p in WvW.
AoE weapons are better for leveling. I’d use Shortbow or Sword/Pistol. Shortbow you have zero-range cluster bomb spam (hit 2 as fast as possible when mobs in melee range), auto attack hits 3 targets, #3 is a cheap evade/cripple, #4 gives long duration poison. Sword/Pistol gives AoE attacks, teleport enter (+teleport escape) on #2, plus a blind field (#5). So you teleport in, drop a black powder field, auto attack, teleport out if your health gets too low (make the mobs stand in your black powder field so they are blinded which will drastically cut their damage).
Once you are leveled to 80, switch to berserker p/p. My guildie kills people very quickly with his Unloads in WvW.

Thing is though – leveling is a big part of this game…and I do enjoy PvP.

I’ll give Shortbow a look though.

Thanks for all the advice. I am going to shelve my gunslinger until I’ve got another 80 to fund it at least, or until the set gets a buff. For such a cool, iconic and unique style, it’s very sad that it’s so crappy and badly designed.

•Implemented out-of-combat build swaps, including gear.

Oh yes. This is badly needed.

Zaviel.1245:

Conncept.7638:

Engineers now have a ‘kit slot’, where the second weapon slot is for most classes. They may place any kit here excepting the medical kit.

Engineers can now use hammers.

Necro Wells have had their CDs slightly lowered. The Necro staff 1 attack has increased missile speed. Power scaling on the Axe has been slightly increased.

Power scaling has been improved on Life Blast, it scales much further up at full life force, and down more at low life force. The missile speed on Dark Path has been greatly increased.

Cantrips now have slightly higher CDs (my main is an ele, and we really need this to bring our bunker builds in line before ANet does something really stupid to our dagger skills like what they did with RTL)

Dragon’s tooth is ground targeted, both flamestrike and stoneshards have slightly higher condition durations.

Static Field is now much larger, and lightning strikes periodically within the area. CD slightly increased. Ice spike is now a blast finisher.

Greater and lesser elementals can now attack while moving.

Ranger pets now have an active dodge skill.

Scaling on the ranger sword and dagger has been improved.

More ranger pets have been added.

---

Each race now has necro minions, engi turrets, and guardian weapons unique to their race.

The Norn Spirit forms can now attack while moving

The asura Golem skills and Power Suit can attack while moving.

NEW CULTURAL ARMORS FOR EVERYONE! YAY!

---

No more condition stacks limits

Tornado and Plague form now have a buff called intangible, which mitigates some damage from melee and a great amount of damage from ranged weapon attacks.

In fact, let’s just make a blanket declaration that all spammable skills can now be used while moving, because a basic attack that requires you to stand still is always going to be useless against one that allows you to move.

YES.

Yeah, this is fantastic

Adry.7512:

my WISH list isss…

a Party Matching system.
Duel options in PVE world.
MORE PVP game modes in the Mists.
a lot of breathe-taking Dungeons in the end-game.

These are great

CobaltSixty.1542:

Conncept.7638:

Engineers now have a ‘kit slot’, where the second weapon slot is for most classes. They may place any kit here excepting the medical kit.

Engineers can now use hammers.

Necro Wells have had their CDs slightly lowered. The Necro staff 1 attack has increased missile speed. Power scaling on the Axe has been slightly increased.

Power scaling has been improved on Life Blast, it scales much further up at full life force, and down more at low life force. The missile speed on Dark Path has been greatly increased.

Cantrips now have slightly higher CDs (my main is an ele, and we really need this to bring our bunker builds in line before ANet does something really stupid to our dagger skills like what they did with RTL)

Dragon’s tooth is ground targeted, both flamestrike and stoneshards have slightly higher condition durations.

Static Field is now much larger, and lightning strikes periodically within the area. CD slightly increased. Ice spike is now a blast finisher.

Greater and lesser elementals can now attack while moving.

Ranger pets now have an active dodge skill.

Scaling on the ranger sword and dagger has been improved.

More ranger pets have been added.

---

Each race now has necro minions, engi turrets, and guardian weapons unique to their race.

The Norn Spirit forms can now attack while moving

The asura Golem skills and Power Suit can attack while moving.

NEW CULTURAL ARMORS FOR EVERYONE! YAY!

---

No more condition stacks limits

Tornado and Plague form now have a buff called intangible, which mitigates some damage from melee and a great amount of damage from ranged weapon attacks.

In fact, let’s just make a blanket declaration that all spammable skills can now be used while moving, because a basic attack that requires you to stand still is always going to be useless against one that allows you to move.

You had some really good ideas and then blew them all with a blanket statement to remove the condition limit.

If you don’t mind me asking, why would removing the condition limit be a big deal in PvE?

mjharrison.3209:

Some people here talking about efficiency and 10 hours+ of farming COF for gold… that’s effectively working for 1 dollar / hour – the opposite of efficient. It would be more efficient to work your RL job for 1 hour, buy the gold, and then play the game for fun. Grinding the game for gold is idiotic.

Not all countries are able to do this sadly.

Also – for another little dose of elitism, a recent post in the thief forums basically saying ‘if you don’t use x/y weapon comps, I’m kicking you from my groups’.

Ugh.

MindFreak.6907:

I disagree with that Linked post there.I did not open my Wallet,Sorry NO! I farmed it all myself to get the legendary.And i dislike all of u crying about the CoF speedruns,know why??
-This why:Any normal person that reads patch class balances knows that Warriors are nerfed every patch and just harder and harder,while everyone else get buffed.So while warriors are bad in PvP and everyone enjoy with another class but warrior,some warriors enjoy PvE even tho nerfs reach everywhere if u look at it.I play warrior since day 1 on gw2 and all i saw are people crying with their buffed classes (ofc they dont cry in pvp just for this small cof runs in pve).I would trade pvp warrior for pve everyday!But in Pvp now its try hard,close to “not worth trying”.
While most classes can outplay couple of enemies alone,warrior cant manage more than 1 at same time.So go play game and dont spam forum xD

The END.

What…the hell did I just read?

Travlane.5948:

p/p can kill most normal mobs with 2x unload if ur gear is correct in pve. its not a bad build. even in WVW u can really put a hurrting on players ..ive personally killed hundreds with it. just make sure you have invis/evades ready bc there is very very low mobility with p/p

1v1 regular mobs aren’t a problem. But anything that can survive a few unloads, or do frontloaded ranged damage absolutely flattens me, and if I get more than one mob, I’m probably dead.

On the other hand, my guardian can take 3-4 in similar gear and not even break a sweat.

Ekemeister.8905:

If you want to be a gunslinger, try the engineer.

I took a look, but I want a straight gunfighter – Engi is very gimmicky with gadgets etc.

more performance optimisations.

And an ‘Ultra’ setting for effects

Sunflowers.1729:

Guardians and Mesmers now have +25% move speed signets.

Really, that’s all I ask for.

Honestly ANet should increase the movement speed out of combat by about 30% for everyone. Hoofing it everywhere in a world this size is obnoxious.

ThePainTrain.8601:

Pawstruck.9708:

Take a scroll down gw2lfg and take a look. People are running full Berzerker Warrior groups with the occasional Guardian mixed in. It’s ALL they’re running. It’s getting impossible to find a group as a Thief or even an Elementalist. All people want is faceroll damage and some support.

Look, I’m all for the no-holy-trinity thing in this MMO. It’s awesome. If people want to run a group of 5 whatever’s, let them do it… but when balance becomes so bad that all people want is a certain class or two, I’ve got a huge problem.

Can you imagine if, in “that other MMO,” Mages, Priests, Druids, and etc. all became obsolete? I can tell you about how long “that other company” would take to fix that. I don’t say that to rag on the folks at Anet, but to emphasize that this is a game-breaking balance issue. When I say game-breaking, I mean “if this continues then many experienced MMO-players will flee from this game.”

This is my favorite MMO of all time so far, so don’t think I’m just whining. I can tolerate a certain amount of class imbalance because, philosophically difference = imbalance. But it doesn’t have to be broken imbalance.

What do you guys think about this?

You need to slow your kitten roll there bub..

The reason ad’s for groups like that exist, is because of some stupid meta that everyone falls into line with..I’m a warrior, and i’ve run groups that are JUST as fast if not faster than some of the 1mes4war groups.

Although I do love some of the “wahhhh nerf warriors” talk..thats ALWAYS the solution right guys? Whack-a-mole nerfs! Next it’ll be “WAHHH guardians are too unkillable! make them less tanky!”

Naturally nobody wants ‘to the ground’ nerfs on Warriors, but if one class is head-and-shoulders above the others in power, then either that class needs to be adjusted or the other classes need a buff.

Nerfing one class is significantly easier than buffing the rest.

ascended or not i don’t care but ZERO new armor skins in 8 months when so many new weapons were included is ridiculous.

I’d just love it if I could get a ‘coat’ like cloth look on my plate classes…

No more condition stacks limits

Fantastic idea.

If this thread goes well, I will continue to update the OP with good suggestions.

Go nuts. What could ANet add to this game to keep you playing?

For me:

- P/P generally improved for thieves, making it a viable and fun leveling and PvE spec.

- Pets now take 90% less damage from non targetted AOE attacks in PvE (50% less in PvP).

- Pet movement speed and ai generally improved.

- Condition limit removed.

- Initial HP, power and skill unlocks adjusted for several class to make the early game experience more consistant.

- General improvements to the Ranger, Engineer, Necromancer and Thief class in PvE.

- Non Combat ground movement speed for all classes increased by 30%.

So, right off the bat the class/build that appealed to me most of all was a dual pistols thief. However, especially at lower levels, I found myself dying the second I got an add, and having issues with things my Guardian just roflstomped through.

Is this normal? Is P/P just not a leveling spec? Am I just bad?

Any tips for a prospective gunslinger?

Please please please make P/P better.

People on the forums already saying that they kick anyone who uses P as a mainhand. Which is sad.

Title. I started a P/P and enjoyed it, but found the playstyle a bit bland. I went to Mesmer and found it fun, but super ultra squishy.

In terms of overall fun, solo power etc, which would you advise and why? I’m interested in both PvP and PvE.

WoW had periods throughout the game where certain professions were MASSIVELY OP. If you deny it, you didn’t play much WoW or read much forums. And yeah, eventually some of that stuff does get fixed.

Sort of like where we are now. A seven month old game. In six months will warriors still be OP. If not, how many people who make them will regret it, or feel the need to create whatever character is OP at that moment.

Certain professions in this game, people used to scream were underpowered and some still are. But you don’t hear it as much from eles anymore, when it used to be a lot of what you heard? Why? Because slow change made the profession playable, along with learning the builds that actually work.

The worst profession, arguably, is the engineer, yet there’s a WvW build and a PvP build in which the engineer completely excels. I have friends that play both.

Anyone who points to WoW as the bastion of profession balance, probably didn’t play enough of it early on to comment.

Yes, WoW was imbalanced, but the devs did a lot to fix it. Nobody is expecting balance to be perfect from the get go.

What I’m against is your “don’t bother balancing it at all because it makes things change to much”. If a profession is massively OP, it needs to be changed, or other professions need to be buffed. Not just left to rot.

There’s no MMORPG in the world where you don’t see this kind of conversation on the forums. Consequently, there’s no MMORPG that someone is going to roll a character and regret it.

…Really?

I rolled a feral druid in BC. I was not wanted in any meaningful endgame simply because of my class.

I rolled a Nature Healer in DCUO and was not wanted in any high level raids.

PLENTLY of people who roll classes in MMOs expect them all to be similarly viable in endgame content. This is a reasonable expectation, unless you don’t consider balance to be important in games.

What’s worse is games that change stuff all the time, constantly to try to balance is, and you end up with half the players rolling the build of the month on yet another alt, just to be that powerful. It’s just human nature.

Not really. Because unless your devs are entirely daft, your changes become smaller and smaller as you start to approach a balance state. There will always be outliers, but as long as that outlier changes from time to time it’s fine.

What’s not fine is telling someone who rolled a Necro, for example, that ‘so solly, cholly – but you aren’t going to be enjoying the endgame you want. Better get rerolling, because some people would prefer you to suck forever than for a game to change sometimes".

There’s always one class that’s better in games. No matter how you balance it, people will find that one profession with one build that’s most efficient. It’ll always happen because the only way to make all professions equal is to make them the same…and no one wants that.

Naturally. But you can get balance to a pretty reasonable point where all classes are viable in all spheres and moderately balanced without sacrificing too much variety. Assymetric balance and all that.

You’d really be fine if your class was 1000% weaker than all the others in the aspect of the game you enjoy? It wouldn’t bother you at all?

Again, nobody should feel like they rolled the wrong class.

It’s called Schadenfreude…basically it’s a delight in the misfortune of others and a desire to show a superiority that is usually not very evident on closer examination.

This.

Or, as I like to call it: ‘If-It’s-Not-An-Issue-To-Me-It-Shouldn’t-Be-An-Issue-To-Anyone-Else-And-Nobody-Else-Is-Allowed-To-Say-Otherwise-Or-They-Are-Just-Bad’ syndrome.

But yeah, Schadenfreude works fine too.

I’ve realized that many people in the game are still willing to help (like one of the warriors in the party who responded and took the time to show me what to do). In the 6 months I’ve been playing this game that was really the only time it happened to me. Although those other people in the party don’t define a whole community it made me wonder if that was the direction the community was heading; such that new players will get kicked and berated by the more experienced ones and the newer ones are just supposed to take it if they want to play this game. This is what’s happening in World of Warcraft and it’s the reason why I decided to quit WoW for good after returning to it and finding that the community there was rather unpleasant and really unwelcoming to new and even rusty returning players like myself.

So far my experiences haven’t exactly been positive, I must say. I started off and shortly after finishing the starter quest, I got my butt handed to me by a Sonic Turret of some kind that 2 shot me. Some guy ran by me, laughed, killed the turret, told me I was bad and ran off.

Shortly after I tried to party up with 3 warriors doing something and was told that if I wanted to PvE, I should abandon my thief asap and ‘start playing right’.

This reminded me of BC at its worst and I must say, on top of the various bugs and issues I’ve seen so far…have not made a very good impression.

Its a strong PvE class, yes.

But why shouldnt it be OP? Its a WARRIOR. An archetype class. I personally prefer to see 5 Warriors fighting with conventional weapons in a dungeon, steel clash and bullets fly than seeing the hideous ZOMGBURNING style of 5 Guardians unleashing an epileptic siezure on the screen. Theres not enough Warriors

I HATE it when people flat out defend being OP “because we are the real class and everyone else just sucks lol so we should be more powerful than them”.

Freaking Terrans do it in SC2 all the time.

So, Vayne, by your logic it would be fine if one class was 1000% stronger than all the others and gained gold at 6x the rate because balance, progression, farming speed etc. don’t matter?

I disagree. While of course fun and stuff is important, balance is too. It’s not fun to feel like you are playing a game wrong simply by not being one or two classes.