Well my raid group beat SV in 30 minutes last night… It now takes us less time to finish a raid then it used to take me to clear AC 1-3. If the people in this thread had spent half as much time practicing the raid as they did typing their long winded responses they could have easily cleared it multiple times by now.
The problem here is clearly the people, not the raid.
I honestly don´t know how you failed to understand multiple times(I read this before from you) that this raid could be the best invention since sliced bread and perfectly executed and still would not answer the question if it is good or bad to have one in GW2.
You neither take needed time to reach your state, commitment to reach your state, willingness to reach your state or anything else thast surrounds the raid as arguments. It is one of these gid good answers I personaly massively despise despite seeing how your usual responses are usually pretty readable.
How about if I am just unwilling to reach your raid status and lobby here to marginalize raids because I dislike them in my favorite game? If enough people think and say like me and stay out of raids, Anet will listen to our demands. You know that as good as I do as it has already happend before with the introduction of raids.
Minority of people read the forum, and among this thread you’re the minority. Same 4 or 5 people arguing over and over to have easy way to have raids rewards, because they think Raids are too hard.
So, no need to dévote dev time for this, since for other having exclusive rewards in raid is fine ( OK, except viper trinkets)./Thread.
If there have to be raids, I have nothing against them having exclusive rewards in general. I would shower raiders with gold, skins and titles if that helps. But keep things with stats out of this. And again, only because it has also happened with Fractal backpiece, ls2 rewards and PvP backpiece does not make it better or more right, and most of the things I wrote are considerably more easy than raiding. Either forcing people into said content or denying people things with stats is plain bad for the game in my opinion.
Well my raid group beat SV in 30 minutes last night… It now takes us less time to finish a raid then it used to take me to clear AC 1-3. If the people in this thread had spent half as much time practicing the raid as they did typing their long winded responses they could have easily cleared it multiple times by now.
The problem here is clearly the people, not the raid.
I honestly don´t know how you failed to understand multiple times(I read this before from you) that this raid could be the best invention since sliced bread and perfectly executed and still would not answer the question if it is good or bad to have one in GW2.
You neither take needed time to reach your state, commitment to reach your state, willingness to reach your state or anything else thast surrounds the raid as arguments. It is one of these gid good answers I personaly massively despise despite seeing how your usual responses are usually pretty readable.
How about if I am just unwilling to reach your raid status and lobby here to marginalize raids because I dislike them in my favorite game? If enough people think and say like me and stay out of raids, Anet will listen to our demands. You know that as good as I do as it has already happend before with the introduction of raids.
I really feel like interjecting in this thread and bring an argument that no one has brought up before (afaic): it will never be about what we want but rather about what the game can offer. What the game can offer, imo, is based on what Anet envision GW2 to be and some pretty general not individual feedback of players. Here there is no general backslash of people requiring leg. armor to be obtainable in another way, there is rather 5 people complaining that they can’t and don’t want to raid and five other people legendary gating is fine so far. Add me to the latter. Don’t get me wrong I don’t plan on raiding personally but let’s see what happens in game now. I see easy content that literally everybody can achieve without real effort to obtain the best stats in game and hard content that require a bit more dedication in the form of coordination with teammates and learning the mechanics of bosses. And that is perfectly fine and healthy for the game, that is called balance and the silver lining of said balance is the fact that powerful classes with powerful mechanics and action oriented combat system need, require and even deserve great encounters and challenging content at some point. I am sorry but that never happened in core tyria before except for living world events that were temporary content maybe. What I mainly saw before was players stacking in a corner with an ele summoning an icebow in dungeons and people mainly auto-attacking a world boss from a safe spot (though Anet made sure to suppress such spots and tone downed the damages of icebow of course). The thing is the direction Anet is taking with raids is great and can only lead to success imo. What is sad though is that we need to wait a while for the release of LS3. What bothers me more is the comments of players that are against raids: I just find their logic (rather sophism) very deceiving and the feeling I get when reading them is that they use raids as a scapegoat for the cancelling of future legendary weapons (for now) and the delayed release of LS3. Of course I am not claiming that what I resent is true, just an opinion on this particular matter of raids.
I agree when you say that dungeon running was and is superboring in GW2. Stacking and spamming your skills has nothing, absolutely nothing to do with skill or fun in general.
In my opinion, we are talking about four things here:
a) the Question of Anet is incompetent or malicious, coming straight out of the legendary weapons thread.
b) If runs should be sellable.
c) If the introduction of raids and the carrot associated with was wrong.
d) Sustainability
a) The last time I thought that Anet was competent was when they had ls1 running. Elitists hated it, so I came to love it in addition to loving it for the idea of a living, vibrant world. Sadly it came into conflict with topic D, sustainability. From then on, it went down quickly and reached its all time low with the introduction of a raid and Shatterer as the only thing coming out for months. I don´t think Anet is bad by choice, they are bad because they either now lack the money by catering to the wrong group of people to back up their talk or just are not good organized.
b) Yes, they should be. In the case that I want to have a thing but can´t be bothered to do it, I am glad that there are people who drag my sorry behind through stuff.
c) Yes. They have some points speaking for them, but I think the bad outweights the good here.
d) This is the major problem plaguing Anet lately in my opinion. Content they brought out is either selective(raids), plain bad(PvP balance), to short(HoT) and/or fails to offer long term goals(ls2).
There’s only so many different ways you can cut fish though before they all start to look and taste the same.
Indeed.^^
I am not really convinced that it makes you unreasonable if you go to a place that was known for years as a place where good steaks were made(core GW2) and you ask for a steak, you get offered fish not once(wing1) but twice(wing 2) in a row and you don´t order there anymore because you don´t like fish. Of course you do not have to throw a temper tantrum or something because the card has changed. But ok, I don´t work in the food industry and can understand if people get defensive of it because it surely is a tough place to work.
@DutchRiders
You basically answered yourself what makes ls(if it is not that type of stuff like ls2 was) superior to pure addition of raids and game mechanics.
“The good thing about Living world is it provides us with a dynamic feeling story line, and it gives us a reason to log in and do stuff LW related in game.”
Add a dynamic world and I go with you all the way to wherever you want.
Lol, i was there from the beginning, and “the masses” never asked for it. A small but vocal minority did.
Sort of like the small vocal minority calling for raid nerfs/different raid modes? I can back this up from the fact that Anet created raids and stated that raid participation hit higher numbers than in most games. If you don’t think that is a success then there is no point in continuing this conversation.
People were asking for harder content. That is true. When you start to faceroll Orr semi afk, this is understandable. I was also looking for some more challenging stuff and found my comfort zone in ls1. I also think that elitists showed their true faces in ls1 when they kept on hillariously complaining in map chat how people could be so bad to fail Marionette although that was quite a challenging content. The good thing with Marionette was that you could just run off if you ran out of time, that is my main gripe with raids anyway if they insist to hide legendary armor behind it in a blunt attempt to force me into them.
What is certainly not true is that people were specifically asking for raids. Anet also tried first with ls2, but that was so much of a design fail on all levels that I don´t really wonder that many people did it once to just get over with because they, like me, hated to get absolutely nothing out of a 20 minute encounter because a monster struck you in its death throes with a last attack or were forced to bring some friends with you while you were just afk(this was kittened, really?) at some point. Which brings me to my second gripe with raids, just bad reward distribution.
@more people participate in raids:
I want to begin with the statement that it may very well be that the raids of Anet are more accessible and better than WOW raids. I don´t know, I did neither with big enjoyment and was biased from the start. I know that I just hated doing open world DAOC raids, but that is another story.
I am also not that good at mathematics, but I think this hits home my knowledge about statistics(assuming numbers here):
WoW has 100 people. 5 of them raid. The number of people raiding is 5%.
GW2 has 100 people. 8 of them raid. The number of people raiding is 8%.
So a larger portion of players raid in GW2 than in WoW.
Also, did you know that if you had one player and another player joins the first one, that you have increased the number of players by 100%? What a huge success!^^
(edited by Torolan.5816)
If the expansion was a full-bodied 50$ worth of content expansion there wouldn’t be a content drought in the first place…
That is completely untrue. No MMO company has ever been able to produce content as fast or faster than the majority of people can consume it.
Whether you feel that you got $50 worth of content is a different consideration than if the amount of content that is released has any potential to cover the periods in time during which new content is being created.
~EW
Of course there will always eventually be a content drought, but I assume the point was that kitten expansion shouldn’t have reached that point so quickly.
Honestly there isn’t even a content drought. Raids are still being released regularly. It may not be the content everyone is interested in, but it’s content.
Lol, got to love this reasoning. I can see a restaurant arguing like tihs on the phone when someone orders a steak:
“Yeah, hello, I know you ordered a steak. Steak is out, but we have a large stock of fish we want to sell to you. What, you don´t want fish, even after I have offered it to you a second time and you won´t order again in our restaurant? I wonder why…”^^That analogy is awful, and the conclusion the hypothetical customer came to is extremely unreasonable.
It’s more like people are drawing the conclusion that the fish isn’t food, because they want steak.
The only unreasonable thing I see in my anology is that the customer is still on the phone after he is asking for steak and gets offered fish for a second time, especially when the restaurant was known for being the only steakhouse in town for years.^^
Let me lend you a hand in advance with answering the post of STIHL, Hypairion:
Yes, Silverwaste nets more than that. Nobody disagrees.^^
And it was as wrong then as it is now, Absurdo. I am/was an avid fractal runner and always thought how stupid it is to put the ascended backpiece into it. A content either can stand on its own feet by being accessible and fun without getting a subvention in the form of reward or it is destined to fail. Although I am not that much supportive of easy raids, there was definitely an easy mode in Fractals, you cold grind lvl10 fractals until you got enough fractal coinage and essence of the mist stuff to buy your way in.
And for the question of why I want it, I want it because the feature is nice and I don´t care for rune swapping. I could live without it of course, but when Anet offers me a forum to vent my protest, why should I not use it?
Fair enough that you can offer your opinion.
As others have said, rewards can drive content. And almost every game mode has exclusive rewards tied to it, not just fractals. I also find it a bit hypocritical to simultaneously argue that “content should stand on its own without rewards” and “I want to access the same reward through X content.” While it may be possible to reconcile these two views, they are in tension with each other.
Some content has easy modes (fractals, SAB) but most don’t (Arah, queens gauntlet). I think that’s ok, as long as there is content at a variety of skill levels. Which there is.
If you are only going after legendaries for the stat change, and don’t care about runes, then you could buy 1000 sets of exotic armor for the same price.
I don´t even disagree that content can be driven by rewards, but it does not change my opinion that it is wrong. When GW2 went free to play, I quickly stated here how I was repulsed from that thinly veiled tactic of Anet and excuse to make raids bigger than they would be when Dungeons were nerfed and basically abandoned and legendary armor was announced to be raid exclusive.
For your examples, nobody cares if Arah is too hard for some people because there is nothing of a lasting value hidden behind it. I am missing one dungeon path of Arah to get the explorer title, but it simply can´t and probably won´t pick myself up to do it because it frankly is not worth it in my eyes to sit through Arah again which primarily interested me for the tales the NPCs told about old races.
It´s the same with queens gauntlet, but that does not bother me in the slightest because i did not even really care for the event itself after ls1 because from that point it is only the sorry excuse of content with a single beam of light with one of the participants now training in lions arch.
I can reconcile the views you mentioned because I primarily link enjoyment with quality instead of pure effort. I won´t offer any effort in my game time if there is no enjoyment in it.
The largest majority of my toons wear ascended armor, and I don´t swap my stats or armor because some math computer geek made a fancy programm and thinks Soldier or Carrion sucks(before you grab your forks and torches, I also stay clear of speedrunners and people of that kind^^). I crafted a large majority of these items instead of finding them, so I don´t really need the armor. It´s more of a principle and the offer of convenience for me.
If the expansion was a full-bodied 50$ worth of content expansion there wouldn’t be a content drought in the first place…
That is completely untrue. No MMO company has ever been able to produce content as fast or faster than the majority of people can consume it.
Whether you feel that you got $50 worth of content is a different consideration than if the amount of content that is released has any potential to cover the periods in time during which new content is being created.
~EW
Of course there will always eventually be a content drought, but I assume the point was that kitten expansion shouldn’t have reached that point so quickly.
Honestly there isn’t even a content drought. Raids are still being released regularly. It may not be the content everyone is interested in, but it’s content.
Lol, got to love this reasoning. I can see a restaurant arguing like tihs on the phone when someone orders a steak:
“Yeah, hello, I know you ordered a steak. Steak is out, but we have a large stock of fish we want to sell to you. What, you don´t want fish, even after I have offered it to you a second time and you won´t order again in our restaurant? I wonder why…”^^
And it was as wrong then as it is now, Absurdo. I am/was an avid fractal runner and always thought how stupid it is to put the ascended backpiece into it. A content either can stand on its own feet by being accessible and fun without getting a subvention in the form of reward or it is destined to fail. Although I am not that much supportive of easy raids, there was definitely an easy mode in Fractals, you cold grind lvl10 fractals until you got enough fractal coinage and essence of the mist stuff to buy your way in.
And for the question of why I want it, I want it because the feature is nice and I don´t care for rune swapping. I could live without it of course, but when Anet offers me a forum to vent my protest, why should I not use it?
The solution is not to raid more till you enjoy it it is find a group of people or a guild either on the forum or Reddit and give it a shot. There are now posts on Reddit where people are teaching raids. If you don’t enjoy interacting or socialising then no one can help you.
Everyone is capable of raiding. The problem of ‘I can’t play how I want because I don’t have paper armour’ is not that of the players. Enrage timers make it so you have to have a decent amount of damage to avoid a full wipe. ‘Elite’ players did not create that. The only other obstacle is time. Raids reset once a week and if you can’t find a a few hours over 7 days then don’t come complaining here because that’s no ones fault.
I don’t care who has access to the armour as long as they put in the effort that I put in to aquire it.
Let me ask you a question then:
Let us assume that I already have a guild, am social and friends in the game.
Why should I look for another guild of complete strangers to do a content I dislike for a reward I would like to have? Is that your definition of fun?
Anet shone until recently with a kind of railway station fun. The train came in, you took a short ride to the other side of the town, and went to a bar there and had fun. When you were drunk and/or broke, you stumbled out and back into the train who brought you back home.
With raids, you take a train ride from a Munich railway station to a Barcelona railway station where the railroad company has offeered you a new tyoe of uniform. Except that you do not drive a fast train but a steam engine that does not manage to do some mountain passes unless there is enough steam in the tank. So when there is not enough steam, you roll back in the railway station with the additional kick in the balls that maybe the guy that shovels coals quits and you have no other coal shoveler at hand.
On the other hand, I don´t care how much effort you put into your raids. That is your own fault as much as it is mine to not put effort into it. It is the job of Anet to see which number of people are supportive of your or mine position and offer either enough content for the both of us or the risk loosing one of us. It´s that simple actually, and I guess that MO tends more in my direction lately, but I could be wrong with this.
@Absurdo and Alveda
Since raids appeared in GW2, I already had the resolve to not invest time in them when I played the game. I gave them a try anyway to know if my precognition would stand the test of the game itself, and it did. I read the forums once in a while and was probably annoyed so much by silly and stupid “git good” arguments that I began to argue and lobby against the system of raids here. If you check my posting history, I never even tried to mask that.
I find it indeed annoying that raids got the Lions share of developer attention lately, and I am also not a fan of SAB as these two types of content are exactly the type of content I usually avoid, time consuming and jumping puzzle. From a personal point of view, I would indeed like to see both vanish or marginalized, as much as you would like to see them get support. This is because it takes away from stuff I would probably like much more and has nothing to do with me wanting to spit into your personal metaphorical soup. Of course I realize that there is a market for raids. I guess it would bother me much less if Anet would have stayed true to their original plan and just hand out skins and titles instead of actually useable items like legendary armor.
you won’t have it because you refuse to adapt and put some effort in raid, that’s all. And since it’s Anet decision, i guess they were thinking that legendary armors were a proper reward for challenging pve content, aka raid, and that people who mastered raid would deserve legendary armor. How is it unfair? we play the same game after all. The difference is that some people don’t mind putting effort in raiding, with countless wipes, changing stuff, buying expensive foods etc, while others want to do nothing and have the reward. Who do you think deserve the reward? the lazy one or the worker? I have the answer for you, if you want…
Here you really lost me.
GW2 is a game. Not a exercise, not a job, not a sports club. A game. I said it when the fractal backpiece was introduced for Fractals only, I said it when the backpiece for PvP was announced, I said it for legendary armor:
Gating content behind game modes is plain and simple wrong and bad for the game. It breeds exactly the discussions we are having here right now.I know that many people think that people are looking up with envy and want on your efforts, but I stand on the firm believe that nobody remembers the name of your toon after he has passed them in Lions arch with your Eternal title and your grinded Astralaria. So the number of people that maybe care for that is in your closest group, aka your raiding team and your guild, and a few people that write you PMs about how that looks on you.
Regarding the question who deserves content X more, I would be with you if this was one of the activities I mentioned above, aka work, sport, exercise. I believe that first and foremost effort and dedication by playing the game should be rewarded in a game, not skill or reflexes and effort for builds which is a non-game activity anyway in my mind. Skills and reflexes should net you more, but a less skilled person should not be forced to go out emptyhanded off anything.
tl:dr Gating is wrong, and nobody cares if you have the Eternal title or Astralaria.
OK I will try to write it in a simplier manner, since you have some understanding difficulties.
Raid is a challenging content, that was what anet was saying before they implement it. Anet said it would not be à content for everyone then.
They put à nice reward behind them, because, you know, doing raid is a little more harder than spamming 1 in open world, and also to motivate people to try harder content, to challenge themselves. Yes, even in a game, some people like challenge.
But, some other people don’t like challenge in a game. They see the shinny, and they are: oh, shinny, I want it. Oh wait, I have to do something à little difficult to have it! No way, it’s à game. I’m supposing to have everything I want, in a easy way. I don’t care if people put à lot of effort for the reward, I want it for no effort…And so we are in this topic. You’re saying that no one care about reward or title, but after you’re saying that Gating reward is wrong…you lost me.
But we will never agree between people who don’t mind challenge and a little work for a reward, and people who want all in an easy way.
As you were so kind to write it up in a more primitive form for, me, let me return the favor:
*The idea that there should be content for an elite part of players both alienates and angers me for the sake of finding it both distateful and misplaced in a game. I would probably be at least good enough equiped for it and could also spare the time if I really wanted, but I don´t want to support this kind of thinking in any way.
*They put a nice reward behind raids to push them and not look like fools in implementing something only a minority of players will play. And it is not even working very well because most raiders could not care less for the armor because they can´t swap runes, just look around in the forum to check the validity of this statement. It is a grinders item for casual players who do not really care for their runes as long as they are halfway fitting, so it does not belong into a skill challenge like a raid. Besides, Anet does not care in the slightest if I am the best player in the world or the greatest scrub that can barely walk straight in game, not even remotely as long as I invest money and time. This is plain marketing chatter.
I had a chuckle when someone pulled Monopoly as reference game.
I love Monopoly! Especial Spongebob Monopoly which I play at work with kids.
So when I play Monopoly with kids, they all start the same as we do with raids.
Their skill level of dice slinging? Irrelevant for the sake of the game, relevant for my assessment of the physical abilities.
Their skill in counting? Irrelevant for the game as long as someone is there to help them.
Their tactical skill? Irrelevant for kids and thier enjoyment of the game, they like to have the crusty crab because it nets the most gain.
I have a blast when I play Monopoly with children because they get the spirit of the game. I am longtime motivated to play the game because I like the premise of it, not if I am the best and shiniest Monopoly player ever.
Monopoly is as RNG as it can get, discriminates nearly no one and has only very, very loose gates like 3 cards of a color. Even if oyu own only the street, you always get rewarded a little. Where is the reward in a raid if you fail at the first boss?
So, where are my Monopoly legendary medals I can present to a 7 year old that played with me?
A stranger usually does not cares for your prestige. I would not know a single person of the ones I argue here with because I don´walk through lions arch or whereever and look who has the shiniest shinies, not to speak of how shallow that prestige is when people already buy their way into raids or the megaraiders already do it with less people or in green stuff or something like that. That is my opinion and observation and not a complain. If you have done/possess all the above mentioned, good for you.
I really don´t understand your reasoning here, fishball.
I also don´t care how hardcore or well designed GW2 raids are. They could be the best invention since the wheel and I would have no interest in that questions.
I care for the reward and it´s accesibility.
So I take it; the expansion isn’t worth the money?
That’s not necessarily the case. From every thread I’ve seen about half the people think it is. For example, people who raid, definitely think its’ worth the money. People who enjoy large scale meta events and harder open world zones often think its’ worth it.
The problem is there are entire groups of people who don’t think it’s worth it. This month a patch will be coming out to make it a bit less grindy and that might satisfy some people.
Me, I enjoyed the expansion.
HoT is basically ok. Basically.
My worst offenders are the adventures, they just neither make sense lorewise, are just more jump stuff on a jump stuff heavy map, or are plain annoying and way to hard.
Maps are not really big. Most layers are actually pretty small.
Gating, layering, walls everywhere. Not cool.
Reverse engineering, aka learning to enjoy the expansion when your mastery points rise more and more is not a good selling point and makes absolutely no sense for me.But there are people who like the adventures and think they add to the game. I like some of them and most of them you don’t actually have to do. The other stuff you have a problem with I don’t…and a percentage of other people don’t either.
That is actally fine. But I don´t like to have an expansion that does not bother me over its due, I would have liked to have an expansion that sweeps me away for weeks or even months. HoT sadly did not do that for me.
So I take it; the expansion isn’t worth the money?
That’s not necessarily the case. From every thread I’ve seen about half the people think it is. For example, people who raid, definitely think its’ worth the money. People who enjoy large scale meta events and harder open world zones often think its’ worth it.
The problem is there are entire groups of people who don’t think it’s worth it. This month a patch will be coming out to make it a bit less grindy and that might satisfy some people.
Me, I enjoyed the expansion.
HoT is basically ok. Basically.
My worst offenders are the adventures, they just neither make sense lorewise, are just more jump stuff on a jump stuff heavy map, or are plain annoying and way to hard.
Maps are not really big. Most layers are actually pretty small.
Gating, layering, walls everywhere. Not cool.
Reverse engineering, aka learning to enjoy the expansion when your mastery points rise more and more is not a good selling point and makes absolutely no sense for me.
you won’t have it because you refuse to adapt and put some effort in raid, that’s all. And since it’s Anet decision, i guess they were thinking that legendary armors were a proper reward for challenging pve content, aka raid, and that people who mastered raid would deserve legendary armor. How is it unfair? we play the same game after all. The difference is that some people don’t mind putting effort in raiding, with countless wipes, changing stuff, buying expensive foods etc, while others want to do nothing and have the reward. Who do you think deserve the reward? the lazy one or the worker? I have the answer for you, if you want…
Here you really lost me.
GW2 is a game. Not a exercise, not a job, not a sports club. A game. I said it when the fractal backpiece was introduced for Fractals only, I said it when the backpiece for PvP was announced, I said it for legendary armor:
Gating content behind game modes is plain and simple wrong and bad for the game. It breeds exactly the discussions we are having here right now.
I know that many people think that people are looking up with envy and want on your efforts, but I stand on the firm believe that nobody remembers the name of your toon after he has passed them in Lions arch with your Eternal title and your grinded Astralaria. So the number of people that maybe care for that is in your closest group, aka your raiding team and your guild, and a few people that write you PMs about how that looks on you.
Regarding the question who deserves content X more, I would be with you if this was one of the activities I mentioned above, aka work, sport, exercise. I believe that first and foremost effort and dedication by playing the game should be rewarded in a game, not skill or reflexes and effort for builds which is a non-game activity anyway in my mind. Skills and reflexes should net you more, but a less skilled person should not be forced to go out emptyhanded off anything.
tl:dr Gating is wrong, and nobody cares if you have the Eternal title or Astralaria.
Trust me, you don´t want a CSM here. The CSM is voted by majority, and although I don´t deny that decent people were selected when I still played EVE, the large majority who voted for them were voting for their power ambitions and not the best for the game. A guy from TEST and several CFCs made the council multiple times, but you don´t want people like that to have a say in GW2. You really dont.
It would be more than ok for me if raiders got exclusive stuff in the form of titles, skins or other badges for their efforts. Anyone who is sitting through hours of wipes and tactics indeed deserves something for his efforts. But a whole upgrade(not a tier) of an armor is misplaced there.
The irony here is that raiders probably won´t see much use in legendary armor anyway for obvious reasons and many people who would like to have the armor do not care for rune swapping and would use them much more regularly.
Lets say Anet would use an NPC where you can see the story behind raids without doing them and release legendary armor with a different skin for WVW, PVP or other PvE activities. That I would be fine with.
I am not really against an easy mode raid, I would like to see the story that is involved with the raids. Although I would rather like to see Anet just make legendary armor available over more ways than raiding so that I could just forget about raids like I did with aetherpath after I completed it once.
The blatant attempt of Anet to make raids valuable really bugs me more than people showing elitist behavior, the later one I can just avoid without being grumpy.
After the recent AMA, I have some hope that MO will direct the company away from raiding again after the first raid is complete.
@Just a flesh wound
I guess you can assume that a big company is not bothered to much by a bunch of disgruntled customers asking true but inconvenient questions in an open round. These kind of questions are smiled away or answered with platitudes, general statements and press chatter.
On a WWE press conference with shareholders, a true neckbeard wrestling fan with some shares called out Mr. McMahon, the owner of the company, for booking nonsense endings and catering to children instead of true wrestling fans. The CEO was stunned for a moment, then answered with something plain unfitting for the question and just went on to silence the asking shareholder who probably was a minority holder anyway.
On an Eve open panel, a “true” EVE player and alliance leader showed private messages players had sent him on a big screen, even trying to coerce another player into suicide in the process. It was a PR nightmare for CCP that even made the news and the guy received a ban for a meager month and he offered voluntarily some compensation, but CCP just tried to waltz over the situation and just did not ask alliances for the next meeting.
I am with you when you say that they SHOULD be concerned by stuff like this. But they probably won´t.
(edited by Torolan.5816)
I don´t know about you OP, but XP are basically following me wherever I go. Be it crafting, tomes or even wvw.
Eotm was, in my opinion, the near fatal blow to wvw that laid it low and should just be removed or made into a real PvE map.
I agree that the leveling experience could use some more maps and some events back, but the champ train in queensdale was just embarrassing for GW2.
When i read the majority of the posts, i wonder if you guys understand what anet said with “raid won’t be for everyone”
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/raids-in-guild-wars-2/
read it pls everyone. raid are maybe not for you that’s all (people “hating” the meta, refusing the adapt, not wanting to put some effort (lol 6h in first boss that’s nothing, i’ve spent around 15h on it…)).
Pls guys, just accept that for once in gw2, there is something that, maybe, is not for you. And again, that’s not a problem. i hate wvw and pvp, so i just dont play it.And if you want to try raid, lfg is not the good tool, join a guild. We teach some people each week in mine. All we ask is proper gear, build and food (and all class are welcome btw, people that are saying the contrary just don’t know the raids). And yes, we need proper gear, food and build, because without dps, we cannot pass the wings (and btw, wing 2 is a lot less a dps check than the first one). You have to understand that raid IS (for now) the utlimate group content in gw2. So your own build, which probably works fine in open world pve, is maybe not attapted for the raids (where synergy between raid members is mandatory).
And if I read your post, I think you do not understand that this is not what the OP asked for.
The Thread Topic is:
“Why are people so afraid of raids?”
not
“Raids are not for everyone, so why do people complain about that on the internet?”
The OP asked for reasons, and people gave them their personal reasons. That you don´t see it that way is understandable, but also just a personal opinion.What i read is: i’m affraid because i don’t want to be bullied by evil elitists. I don’t want to change armor or build, etc etc. Plus the “i don’t want to wipe hours by hours”
But all of this was implied by Anet before HOT. It’s a challenging content after all. So, it’s made to challenge people, to force them (if they want to raid) out of their confort zone.
If you ask me, you can indeed keep your raid and all the shenanigans that may or may not happen to you, me or anyone with it all for yourself.
The things you wrote are all true in a certain range, but how does that answer the question of the OP, or reasonably question the validity of the points people made? Calling someone basically a wimp will not deter the people from staying clear of raids either, I guess quite the contrary will happen. And this is something raiders should be the least interested in.
When i read the majority of the posts, i wonder if you guys understand what anet said with “raid won’t be for everyone”
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/raids-in-guild-wars-2/
read it pls everyone. raid are maybe not for you that’s all (people “hating” the meta, refusing the adapt, not wanting to put some effort (lol 6h in first boss that’s nothing, i’ve spent around 15h on it…)).
Pls guys, just accept that for once in gw2, there is something that, maybe, is not for you. And again, that’s not a problem. i hate wvw and pvp, so i just dont play it.And if you want to try raid, lfg is not the good tool, join a guild. We teach some people each week in mine. All we ask is proper gear, build and food (and all class are welcome btw, people that are saying the contrary just don’t know the raids). And yes, we need proper gear, food and build, because without dps, we cannot pass the wings (and btw, wing 2 is a lot less a dps check than the first one). You have to understand that raid IS (for now) the utlimate group content in gw2. So your own build, which probably works fine in open world pve, is maybe not attapted for the raids (where synergy between raid members is mandatory).
And if I read your post, I think you do not understand that this is not what the OP asked for.
The Thread Topic is:
“Why are people so afraid of raids?”
not
“Raids are not for everyone, so why do people complain about that on the internet?”
The OP asked for reasons, and people gave them their personal reasons. That you don´t see it that way is understandable, but also just a personal opinion.
So, I played GW2 when it first came out, and had a lot of fun with it — at first. Fractals rolled around, and they were fun, but you can only do the same thing so many times before it gets boring. So, I quit at about the beginning of Living Story season 1.
Flash forward a few years, and here I started playing again ~3 weeks ago. When I heard about new fractals, a raid, and all kinds of challenging content, I just had to come back! So, now I have an 80 Engineer and Elementalist (both fully geared out), I’ve been raiding in MMOs for upwards of 12 years, and all that — yet, to date, I’ve not even set foot inside the raid.
I’ve been listing myself in LFG for a week and a half or so, I’ve been asking around in chat, and so on. But, there’s just no one pugging a raid, or filling a spot, or any of that. And no guilds are recruiting that actually go into the raid.
So, what exactly is the issue? Is the raid in GW2 just one of the hardest in the genre or something, or are people just being silly?
Raiding was the main reason I came back to the game. : / And it doesn’t seem like I’ll even set foot in the raid any time soon.
I agree with you regarding Fractals. I have made at least 500 of them when they still came along in troops of 4, and can say that I am sick and tired of doing them again at the moment.
Still, I find them vastly superior to raids.
Why?
-Contrary to raids, you can drop out of even a high level fractal at any time without disppointing people or entirelly killing it because a suitable replacement is quickly available over lfg.
-I am pretty sure that if Dolphins and Ravens had fingers, they could do a lvl 1 fractal and nobody would even notice that this toon is not piloted by a human. I would even try one with a Seal or a Cat. There is no such option for raids. Either you cut it, or you don´t.
-I don´t like to be hammered into shape. If i want that, I ask my boss for his opinion about this and that.
-I don´t like quitters, and don´t like to quit myself. I would just waste the time of the other 9 people by staying on board despite totally hating it.
-I don´t like to get kicked out of groups because I don´t cut it and nobody has the balls to even tell me why I was kicked.
-I already have a job.
-If I want to wait for other people I prefer to ride the bus instead of playing a game.
It’s profoundly bad business to sell something as part of a package and then renege on what the agreement was, even if ANet can point to ‘weasel words’ such as eventually or regularly. If your customers as a group feel they’ve been misled, tricked or cheated, then any future expansions will be heavily criticized and it will affect sales.
Would this not mean that this also would have happened with HoT then and has affected sales?
Mr O`Brien speaks of the manifesto in his opening post, a set of ideas that helped to sell vanilla GW2 to the people that were sick of grind and raids. When you followed the board for the last 6 or so months, we had heated debattes about the same stuff, and many white knights did not see this even as an argument.
Or was the manifesto to vague?
I personally would have sacked another 6 man team before the legendary team, but that is another story.^^
Full story episodes have a long lead-time. But I don’t think LW content has to be all about the episodes.
This is the best thing to hear. Please, whether it is this group of people who worked on the fantastic Legendary collections or some other devs, have some people work on altering the current map events.
It would be absolutely awesome to have new events and updates to them. In between these larger quarterly updates it would be so nice to see patch notes that surprise us with something like one of the older zones getting an event mix-up and an achievement category (Especially since HoT added some nice QoL with the events/achievement tracking, etc that should really be incorporated into the whole game eventually).
Not every map needs masks/badges/coins to hunt for, and I don’t think anyone would want that on every map, but some amount of achievements/collections associated with them would be awesome (And, again, like in HoT maps – Seeing the events we have/haven’t completed would be great) and having new events to experience and drive players to new/different parts of each map would be a nice change of pace.
I am certainly bummed to hear about the rest of the Legendaries being shelved but I think more frequently adding quest-like collections or zone updates on a frequent basis is more important long term and I hope this move can get that aspect back on track.
+1 to you , good sir.
There are so many points that could be made more up to date. Kessex Hills is the best map you currently have in this regard, but I guess it needs a break from the action.
My ideas would be like:
*Let the pact finally and actually win ground against the forces of Zhaitan.
*Let Thaida Covington actually do something. Maybe a confrontation with a power mad Tequatl or something.
*Let the Nighmare court do something! They have lost very important people, why does nobody of them care? Rekindle the alliance with the krait a little bit? They still work together in toxic events.
Replace some undead in general with other factions. Nothing screams more “static!” to me than to vanquish some type of opponent who is not only leaderless but incapable of making decisions alone.
You can get guaranteed karka shells on Southsun, do three dailies and it has a reliable world boss. So I guess Southsun will be more populated from that point of view.^^
Seems like many of us share the view that core GW2 is/was excellent and that HoT soured it.
Do you guys think that things would’ve been better if they had just followed the LS/feature pack plan that was present before expac?
Maybe people would’ve left in a slow trickle rather than the mass exodus a little while expac released?
Hearing that we won’t get a new LS until q3 definitely (according to a WP video) made me more sour towards the expac and changes to the schedule. It was the steady flow of casual/do when you want content that was keeping me interested in the game. Maybe free updates isn’t sustainable, but honestly I would’ve been willing to pay a little bit to unlock those episodes.
I am not sure. I was undecided about making an expansion, then I was suffering through HoT which gets only better piece by piece after you claw your way through the same metas again and again to fully utilize the hidden fun in HoT.
Either the ls concept was not running good enough or the suits were talked into changing it to make it even better, and now as it fell flat on the face at least at bringing in a large number of new players from F2P, they are backpedalling and realizing that bringing in raiders and more hardcore players is not sufficient enough to keep numbers rising while people that fled from raiding and hardcore content have left GW2.
It is speculative if Mr. Johanson wanted out or was shown the door, but I personally cant fend off the impression that Mr. O´Brien pulled the plug and now takes more responsibility and micro management from the captains seat himself.
I would also not transfer if I were on Underworld or a similar lower ranked server right now. I am not even talking about server loyality here. If Anet offers me to change the server for free because Miller becomes unsustainable for them as a company and it closes tomorrow, I will readily and without groaning transfer.
To stay with my example, I paid to drive with the bus. You are right when you say that I paid for a ride on any bus Anet offered me. When I entered world selection, I choose Miller because it had places left in contrast to many other servers. So I sat down in the bus offered to me, my ticket was stamped and I expect to be driven around now in whatever bus Anwet offers me.
I don´t care if the next bus is made of gold and bare breasted supermodels serve me my favorite drink all day, I won´t pay again for a bus ticket I already bought.
Besides, how do you know I would not mix well with Gunnars or RoFs? A rather large RoF guild had transfered some months ago to us, and most of the people were very polite even after we fought for months against each other. I expect it to be no different with Gunnars.^^
Of course it is Anets duty that I have fun if they want to keep me playing WvW. It is not their duty to pamper me, it is their duty to build an environment where everyone can have fun. In the case of WvW, this probably means that servers should be of approximately the same number so that tactics win the day. And even if that would not be their duty, they still should be very interested in keeping me interested in any form. Would you not be angry if a bus driver came to you and would say:
“Yeah, well, this bus is not running very well and has not many passengers. But if you pay your already bought ticket again, we have a bus with more passengers waiting over there for you.”
I could easily transfer to let´s say, Gunnars or Seafarers rest. My english is quite good. But this is really more a matter of stubborn refusal from my side. Close the server and I will transfer, but probably not one day earlier.^^
I know and I would’ve transferred from that a long time ago – question is why didn’t those who still remain.
I am not in T9, but I can tell you why I did not change my T6 server despite either steamrolling or getting steamrolled every week depending if we#re hovering in bottom silver or top bronze:
1) I am a cheapskate
2) By principle, I don´t want to spend any money for a server change because it is not my fault Anet failed to keep players interested in wvw.
At this point, I am very much for the disbanding of Bronze Tier. When we have a strong Zerg here, we are talking about 20 persons lately. Drakkar and Gunnar, our opponents this week, can easily field twice our number at every time of the day.
It could be coincidence, but I tend to agree with Astralporing here. Maybe cost is a harsh word for that, devs were obviously spread out too far and the raid team is one of several teams.
Of course the decision was easy which team would be axed, the third raid wing at least has to appear or Anet would look even more like clowns than they already do with this legendaries fiasco.
(edited by Torolan.5816)
Weird, no one I know in game has a legendary or is working on one.
Hi, welcome to GW2.
Been here since beta, but thanks anyway.
Same here, except that I only came on board shortly after release. Never found a precursor, never cared enough to buy one.^^
Regarding incompetence and malice, let me give you an example for the meeting and even melting of these two words.
Over 10 years ago, Central Europe was shook by the Schneider scandal. That guy was a rich mogul dealing in houses, cars and highly profitable business models. Business people were falling all over each other to invest in the man and his business, often inviting common people from their banking institutes to invest too. And why not? He was cultivated, had humor and appeared like a through and through trustworthy business man with the best credentials and certificates of business analysts. His papers had gone to the highest of banking managers who could not give him money fast enough.
Or so everyone thought.
It turned out that he was basically broke from the start and had built the biggest snowball and house of cards empire ever. He lived like a king and blew out the money so fast that he was nearly broke again when things finally went out in the public when a clever and honest business woman called him out and sued him instead of taking money to stay silent.
I saw a video with that man some time ago. He lives rather modest right now, and despite him screwing over so many people, you have that nagging feeling to sympathize with him, at least I had that feeling. That is the example of a con artist.
I also saw videos with banking managers who retired or were forced out by the outrage of that scandal. Most were pale like walls and still amazed how things had happened to them. That is the example of a gullible, incompetent dupe with several business degrees from the best business schools.
So position does not protect you from being incompetent. A sizeable portion of people in the position of a superior are incompetent in vital ares of their jobs and make bad decisions.
I am no lawyer, but at least here to have the secretary(a law trained professional, not a typist) of a judge to just look at your case and see if it is court worthy or not takes more than a worth of a fraction of 50 or 100 bucks.
You will probably be stuck with an intermediary at the very best who attempt to haggle a solution between you and the other party, which seems useless in this case.
If enough of these suing attempts with the same reasoning come rolling in, a court will probably be made over it to see what this is all about. I am pretty sure most judges have no clue about laws regarding virtual goods, so this may take some time.
After reading the latest statement of Mr O`Brien regarding legendaries, things may switch back into the favor of non-raiders again in the near future. He is even talking about the manifesto, as strange that may sound to some of us. so maybe even Anet thinks now that it was a bad idea?
Of course he nowhere wrote that raids will be cancelled or not supported anymore, but his wording does not sound very hardcore-ish to me.
Maybe because the small team working on the Raids is doing a good job? While the legendary team wasn’t as successful?
So you think it is a quality issue? There are already legendaries out made by the same formula they wanted to apply to new legendaries, how can there be a difference between making a staff and a sword? Animations when the weapons are in combat are probably already there. And then the shortbow gets released, why the Shortbow and nothing else? It can´t be that hard to look for some ridiculous sidetreck nobody cared for before entering the new legendaries for the quest itself.
I gladly admit that I know Jack about programming, but that does not sound right for me right now. For me, it sounds like a shift in direction again.
After reading the latest statement of Mr O`Brien regarding legendaries, things may switch back into the favor of non-raiders again in the near future. He is even talking about the manifesto, as strange that may sound to some of us. so maybe even Anet thinks now that it was a bad idea?
Of course he nowhere wrote that raids will be cancelled or not supported anymore, but his wording does not sound very hardcore-ish to me.
First of all, I appreciate the effort of Mr. O`Brien to come out with such bad news for many people.
I also agree with some people saying that they were buying HoT because they wanted the legendaries feel betrayed. Ironically, it was the same with Fractal leaderboards, the funny part there was that nearly nobody cared.
I already tried to tell people for the last months that HoT was thrown out as fast as possible and not really ready and basically desperate to look at for the many funless things like adventures or time gated walls who were there to cloak the lack of content. This was kind of expected when the business model was changed, everything else would have greatly surprised me.
I almost felt sympathetic for the poor writer that was sent out barefoot into the sarcastic nuclear winter of roleplayer reviews that was promoting the HoT story as groundbreaking and new while it was very close to the original story with the exception that Mordremoth was clever enough to stay clear of turrets.
So now, after a direct confirmation of the president of Anet himself that things you were waiting for are subject to change all the time, do people finally agree that you can´t set a dime on something promised to you by a company? Being a CEO is probably as much showboating and stalling as it is actually leading a company.
If tomorrow numbers and statistic say that people want to have Tengu/Dredge/Largos, they will come.
If numbers show that raids/dungeons/fractals don´t bring in enough, they will be put on hold.
If promoting open world helps keep players, it will get bolstered.
You could keep on adding plenty of stuff to this list.
On a more positive note, I would be greatly pleased if ls 3 was more than ls1, with much less artificial replayability added. I also like the idea that Anet probably wants to return to the largest number of accessibility without the need to form club like teams in rather large numbers.
It´s actually the vicious circle we discuss about since raids arrived:
Doing a raid requires practice and study. There are those like me who don´t want to invest time into raids for that reason, others love to do just that. I think it is not a question if people could do raids. I am sure if you try hard enough, you can enter a raid and beat it over time if you want. Like a 46 year old lady that can get a drivers licence in the 25th try because nobody wants to see her ever again in driving school or at the drivers license booth.
The question for me is: Why should I subject myself to something like this? I am not in the slightest interested in the raid mechanics, it´s difficulty or the title for completing it. I am interested into raids because there seems to be substantial lore hidden behind it, and because there is a substantial type of armor exclusively gated behind it.
Yes, I know. Ascended = legendary. We also waltzed out long and broad why legendary trumps ascended in terms of convenience if not in stats right at this moment.
My solution would be to remove the armor from raids and stuff it with gold, skins and titles instead. Gold is something hardcore gamers already have plenty of if they are not wvw people, so they could indeed prove that they look for challenge and teamwork, not for a way to feel superior in an elitist way of not only having exclusive titles and skins but also the best armor type. And they could also prove that they can recruit without the big carrot Anet left to dangle. I would do the same with PvP backpack and would have done so with the ascended fractals backpack, so this is not limited to my aversion against raids.
@torolan while there is definitely some rush and seems to have been some cut content (like the supposed nightmare court lane in ds and nightmare court related content throughout other HoT stuff) i dont at all think that adventures were a stopgap measure. pretty sure from the beginning they were talked about, plus they are quite fun many of them anyways
I did not even know about the Nightmare Court getting cut. A complete slap in the face of lore and gameplay all at once if you think how big of a role Faolain plays in HoT. It was a major point of annoyance for me lorewise, nobody seemed to care about what happens to Faolain within the court. She is all alone in HoT, corrupted could both be former pact soldiers or nightmare court but we never hear anything about it.
Sorely dissapointing from both perspectives if you ask me. Why not leave a lane out that has only a very limited connection to mordremoth instead? It´s stuff like this I don´t get.
I said it when HoT came out, and I will gladly repeat it here:
HoT was thrown out of the door as soon as it was halfway running. Something in management happened, and developers were suddenly or maybe basically over night, forced to string some less than good ls2 seasons together for a so-so story.
For the same reason, it is only 4 maps deep with the laughable reasoning that every map has 3 full layers to explore, which is so laughably bad and provable wrong that I feel sorry for anyone buying this argument after setting a foot into HoT.
Even after making DS empty except for the single metaevent, it still was not enough to shove it out of the door. So, adventures were implemented. I mean sure, everybody does a minigame in the dangerous djungle then and when, especially when a big dragon and his slad guard is out there, ok. So adventures are not only totally out of place, they kill the last bit of immersion someone could feel for HoT.
HoT is surprisingly funny despite all it´s flaws. Still it does feel like an expensive season pass.
for the first time, I feel like a second class citizen in this game.
Honest question here…
How does having the vast majority of the game aligned with your preferred style of play make you feel like a second class citizen compared to players for whom only a tiny percentage of the game is aligned with their preferred style of play?
Is not getting everything your way, some times (rarely) having others get something they want, what defines being a second class citizen now? If my mother, when I was a child, had given my sister a tiny slice of cake and the rest of the cake (nearly the whole thing) to me, would I have been treated as a second class citizen because I didn’t get the whole cake?
No, but your example does not really fit because:
a) The cake we are talking about is 3 years old in most slices, the newest piece of cake is around 1 month old and the second youngest piece around 5 months. Would you like to eat a 3 year old cake because your mother refuses to bake new slices of cake? And if she does bake new slices with a flavor you dislike, would you be happy?
b) Let´s say your sister was hockey champion and you refused to play hockey because you found it boring, hard to get to games and time consuming. Then you come home, sit at the table and wait for a new slice of cake you like, but your mother says:
“Uhm, no. you refuse to play hockey, so no cake for you.”
And bam, you´re the newest member of the secondary children club.
c) Your mother changed. When you first lived with your mother, she was a carefree, open herated person that treated all her children the same. Then things began to change, and she stuffed more and more her belongings in her skirt and began to force you into stuff you hate, like playing the violin or joining a sports club because it is a common practice.
What most parents like this don´t realize is that most of this forced content leads to absolutely nothing. A large majority of children simply refuse to play the violin when they feel old enough to stand up to their parents. Most of them were greatly annoyed to have to play something they don´t like and never paid attention to anything the teacher/coach was saying. So what is left is some most basic knowledge about playing the violin you could have also taught children with funny Orff musical instruments. so you largely earned tears and rage because you as the parent were too stubborn and listened to the common take that playing music is good for your brain and free play is wrong which has been largely proven wrong in the later case.a) Yep, some people have been waiting for three years for their turn at dev resources. Thank you for reinforcing my point.
b) Well, as I have been getting all of the cake for years and so when my mother baked one cupcake for my sister to celebrate her hockey championship (funny story, my sister is really quite good at hockey while I have never played) it is probably not such a big deal that she gets one small morsel compared to the vast quantities of pastry that I have been consuming (and which is still present for me to eat).
c) Nothing forced. Mom is trying to make sure that she provides some of each of her children’s favorites for them to enjoy. My siblings and I don’t all enjoy the same thing but mom makes enough of each dish so that we can all try it if we like. Still there is a limit to how much mom can make at once so my siblings and I take turns getting our favorite.
Anyone who tells me that he silently suffered 3 years in GW2 in the hope of getting something he likes is just making a fool out of him/herself. Besides, there was already content for people who liked it harder, they just plain refused to play it because it weren´t raids or it did not suit their beloved berserk meta like Southsun were you are actively punished for dishing out large damage while having no HP.
So your sister got no cake while you got all the cake? Ok.
So mother is not hiding good stuff behind her skirt now because she wants you to take part in an activity you dislike? To stay in our example:
I refuse to play my violin, so I don´t get dessert. I offer to do something else instead that is also good for hand/eye coordination and synaptic activity, but mother refuses with the argument that she does not want drums in the house or finds wrestling unsuitable for her new livestyle.
for the first time, I feel like a second class citizen in this game.
Honest question here…
How does having the vast majority of the game aligned with your preferred style of play make you feel like a second class citizen compared to players for whom only a tiny percentage of the game is aligned with their preferred style of play?
Is not getting everything your way, some times (rarely) having others get something they want, what defines being a second class citizen now? If my mother, when I was a child, had given my sister a tiny slice of cake and the rest of the cake (nearly the whole thing) to me, would I have been treated as a second class citizen because I didn’t get the whole cake?
No, but your example does not really fit because:
a) The cake we are talking about is 3 years old in most slices, the newest piece of cake is around 1 month old and the second youngest piece around 5 months. Would you like to eat a 3 year old cake because your mother refuses to bake new slices of cake? And if she does bake new slices with a flavor you dislike, would you be happy?
b) Let´s say your sister was hockey champion and you refused to play hockey because you found it boring, hard to get to games and time consuming. Then you come home, sit at the table and wait for a new slice of cake you like, but your mother says:
“Uhm, no. you refuse to play hockey, so no cake for you.”
And bam, you´re the newest member of the secondary children club.
c) Your mother changed. When you first lived with your mother, she was a carefree, open herated person that treated all her children the same. Then things began to change, and she stuffed more and more her belongings in her skirt and began to force you into stuff you hate, like playing the violin or joining a sports club because it is a common practice.
What most parents like this don´t realize is that most of this forced content leads to absolutely nothing. A large majority of children simply refuse to play the violin when they feel old enough to stand up to their parents. Most of them were greatly annoyed to have to play something they don´t like and never paid attention to anything the teacher/coach was saying. So what is left is some most basic knowledge about playing the violin you could have also taught children with funny Orff musical instruments. so you largely earned tears and rage because you as the parent were too stubborn and listened to the common take that playing music is good for your brain and free play is wrong which has been largely proven wrong in the later case.
That is just my opinion of course. Anet recently stated that more people than usual raid in GW2 because it is more acessible and there is no gear treadmill in the tradition of other games.
I think of it like this(making up a fictional example):
A common guild has been a mixed bag some time ago. There were dungeoneers, casuals who just wandered around, wvwers, pvper etc. It did not matter which group you were in, people asked in map chat if someone came along for a quick dungeon, joined TS or something.
Then raids came. People tried, many failed, some stayed on board of the raid team because they either wanted it to complete at least once or had nothing better to do or were tired of old content but did not want to toil around in HoT etc etc
The hardcore raiders probably stayed small in numbers. They knew that they had to either bring in other people/not represent or leave their guilds to form raid guilds and groups. A lucky few managed to pug their way in, but by the nature of raids, that should assumingly be hard. To feed this grinder, people had to have a strong incentive to at least join the attempt to do it and get a good portion of raiding requirements and short fuses in many teams.
So especially raiders should be concerned if casual players don´t want to play anymore with them because that either means they just don´t cut it, don´t have the time, disliked getting barked at for this or that or disliked the pace of the thing.
If it took that short then the content would have nearly zero replay value. Which in a game that needs people logging in daily is a very bad idea.
When it takes hours to nail down it has zero FIRSTplay value for most players. What I’m suggesting definitely would have replay value. Instead of a few thousand, and then a few hundred people willing to do tens of hours of raiding each, you’d have tens, perhaps hundreds of thousands of players who would be playing for an hour or two a week, then doing other things with the rest of their time.
The people who enjoy the raid in its current form would continue to play it in its current form, because the rewards would be significantly more, and because they claim to enjoy that sort of content.
I guess they would not. Harcore raiders know that their recruitment capacity entirely hangs on exclusivity and suggested superiority. Nobody right in his mind would fight through a hard raid when he can also choose to do the same thing in a way as if it were a dungeon, no matter if it takes a little longer to get the reward.
Its also the reason why Anet had to put a big carrot behind raids. The base of true raiders is probably so small that raids have to be proped up to incite people normally not interested in them to at least look at them. I personally find that painfully obvious with the nerfs of dungeons and the raid reward being exclusive made at the same time. Of course there was also GW2 going F2P at the same time, but that is just a sidewar justification in my opinion. Raids had to look strong, or the immediate strategy of Anet would have bombed.
I think it is no secret at this point that I want raids to be marginalized as much as possible in terms of developing time and focus, no matter how many casual content is already there or how few developers work on them.
I personally would settle at this point for an in game video showing me what is happening in raids in terms of cinematics and get over with it after wing 3 is out. The teaser on the HP of Anet is sorely dissapointing in terms of presentation, but the white mantle is a faction I always had an interest in.
to be fair i have a job too but a boyfriend that plays gw with me.
anyway the raids don’t require 8 hours a day. our guild dedicate 2 hours 3 days a week to the raids. the raid don’t reset daily, so you have a full week to complete it.
really it’s not a matter of time. although it is a fair matter of skill, so i would suggest not to pug it.
there are a lots of video about those fights that you can watch in your spare time to see what your role can be.
and finally, as you described how you play, you really don’t need a legendary armor, actually, no one needs one to be fair. even though you should be able to switch stat with it, the way you play i don’t think you change build that often and you can always try new builds in exoticI don’t think it’s so much about time required, it’s more about commitment.
if a raid is scheduled at certain time, you better be there, else you won’t have a slot next time.
yes, it’s like when you decide to hang out with friends, you decide to commit a night out with them and to do so you don’t pick other dates with other people…
but you hang out in a mmo instead. but i don’t see why it is ok to go to the cinema and not ok to decide to spend 2 hours in a raid
When was the last time you got movie points after going to the cinema to grind at your new VR glasses you can´t buy in other locations? It is of course ok to raid 2 hours if you find 9 like minded people in general.
Nobody wants to deny raiders raids, at least I don´t want to. I just hope that when the third raid wing is out, there is finally room again for stuff I like.