Guild Wars 2

@Vayne
Sure, products change. Maybe in MMOs even more so than everywhere else. and yes, you are right when you say that it is stupid to cling to a sentence of a developer that is not even still in the company or that is a thing of the past.

But if that truly is the case:
Why make a statement, and more importantly, why listen to it? In my mind, this would mean that preordering is the embodyment of stupidity because you never know if the company does not pull a fast one on you.
If you push it to the extreme, it is false advertising which is illegal in some countries.
So either you put a disclaimer(personal opinion) in your statement as a developer, or you shut up even when fans push you.
Of course that would make PRing your game extremely difficult, and it is shady business and a sign of untrustworthyness with your own word.

Again, no.

The relevance, physical separation or importance of raids and mounts is of no importance for my argument. A raid could also be placed on a space station in the moon, it would not change anything.

Maybe we have a little misunderstanding here. Raids seep in the game in form of equipment I have no access to if I don´t bend over and do raids. Supporters of raids argue that I could always just raid ands get what I want, and I used their own chain of argument against it. It basically bends down to:
Don´t like it, don´t use it.
That you maybe can´t use the new map accoringly is of no importance, you still have old maps to play.
What do you mean, old maps are not sufficient for your enjoyment? The users of mounts just ask you for the new maps, and you can alway jump on the mount train.
So you see, everything is there:
Git gud, don´t like it don´t use it, it does not concern you because you still have old content to play.

I am not even a full time supporter of mounts, but if a mount lets me help get past obstacles I would have to use a guide to otherwise pass it, so be it.

Vayne.8563:

An MMO company is not a person. People say all sorts of things all the time and mean them when they say them. Time passes and what was once true is no longer true. Colin was the game director and under his watch, that never came back….but MO never said it, and may have never even thought it.

People say Anet said something but it’s never true, because Anet has no mouth. It has 300 mouths. What someone says is only good as long as management doesn’t change, and even then circumstances can change.

I remember when Anet said an expansion wasn’t in the works and the Living Story was going to be the way forward. I always remember telling us that eye color wasn’t important enough to include in character generation and that walking would never been in the game, only running. All those things changed.

Town clothes changed too. They felt something didn’t work and they changed it.

At the end of the day, Anet doesn’t say anything ever. Individual developers say something and very likely mean it when they say it. Nothing is law or set in stone, because circumstances change. Hell in real life even laws change.

Sometimes it sucks when it happens, but this is one instance where I’m in favor of the change.

This attitude would be the quickest way to the closest conyon for the largest majority of companies. It would be like:
“Well, the developer said so to sell stuff and because he meant it because we promised him so. But screw him, we do what we want as a company.”
Not only is this massively cynical, it would make all involved people look like dorks. so either gag the developers or put out only serious information about the product.

If said developer makes such a statement on reddit or another inofficial forum, it is nearly excusable and makes just the company look like fools because the left hand has no idea what the right hand does. But if this happens on Gamescon or anything resembling a PR event, it is a sign of a trigerhappy management who either bit more that they could stomach or just made a false advertisement.

So people got “burned” because they hoarded an item for literally years and some people finally get a chance to have said item for free or at least at a reasonable price.
Sounds like the best possible outcome to me.

and yes, it is pretty hard to lose that much weight, and Anet may have promised that said items would not reappear. Anet also said that GW2 would be the game for those who do not want to have raids, special roles for classes and mounts, and look where we are now…

Xenon.4537:

Torolan.5816:

How has it killed open world in wow?

It made people lazy. And as for map design it pretty much invalidates space and composition. What’s the point of a mountain if you can just fly over it? Might as well put the quest givers in a flat open field. and put them all 5 feet from each other instead of spread out in the world.

Riding around especially Draenor is a chore,

See I was right… it made people lazy.

flying mkes you reach all the good dailies in away you want without the need of memorizing the way on land. I see the convenience of a mobile elevator where you see
a boring shortcut.

More evidence of laziness. You would rather fly straight to the daily quest givers and skip the “boring” environment. Remember what you said about chores? Seems to me you actually prefer boring chores instead of exploring a beautiful world.

And for the most part, GW2 can´t hold a candle to the lore and the accompanying cinematics of Wow, especially in the starter areas.
The death of Kill`Jaeden cinematic > everything GW2 has ever produced

This bit right here is why the phrase “then go back to WoW” exists. Seriously, if you think WoW is so much better, why aren’t you playing that instead?

1. Yes, I am lazy when I play games. So what? It´s not my sports team, and I want to relax.
2. I assume that you go to school or to work, or at least outside of the house to get some food. How often do you stop by the green patch of wilderness beside your supermarket, workplace or schoolyard and marvel at it´s awesomeness?
Climbing the same mountain with the same character or even worse, different characters, gets boring very quickly.
It is a very good solution how Blizzard handles that stuff to be honest, your first run with the content is by foot, the rest by flying mount.
3. I actually think every game has it´s strength and weaknesses. GW2 is actually weak with story depth, character depth and reappearance of NPCs. The scene with Velen and Kil´Jaeden touched me despite never making the accompanying raid.
On the other hand I can´t barely remember the name of the sister of Marjory although I played that part of ls2 uncomfortably often.

Edit: I am not demanding anything. I would just find it justifiable by the same means raids were introduced and justified.

I did not want to make an argument that raids and mounts are the same.

My argument is that Anet made a lot of people swallow the pill of raids, it is only fair if the next pill is something I enjoy and raiders don´t.

The optionality of raids is not the question, but for the sake of your argument i will still take the bait and bite:
*You can always choose to stay on ground and simply not use flying mounts for flying but simple riding or just stay on foot. So riding is completely optional. That other people fly is none of your business.(raids do not touch anyone not interested in them)
*It may be that some areas are only reachable by flying mount then. But this is also not relevant because you can always jump on the flying train too( the same as git gud).
You may at thisw point think that these two points contradict themselves. And you would be absolutely correct! The message been sent out is that you do not need to make raids in the same way that you do not need to reach that spot only reachable by flying because you still have old content to play(nonraiders have enough content).

You see, it is a lose/lose situation in my mind here, scorched earth.

No, I am talking about adding controversial features being a two edged sword in general. The entry level would be here much lower of course, and the will to participate would suffice to get said feature if it is not bound to a game mode that is not the open world. but the principle is the same.

tl:dr: If I had to swallow the pill of raids, you can also swallow features you dislike.

Dredge were liberated pretty recently(200+ years is not that long for a race) and they already have a schism faction to escape from the oppression they had to endure by, learned from and kept on using after the dwarves vanished. They are probably the most victimized yet still the most non-threatening minor race for others because they operate mostly underground, and where they don´t operate underground primarily clash with members of the priory who are searching for dwarfen relics, aka grave robbers. I don´t want to put them on a pedestral, they are evil enough, but especially these guys have a reason to be bitter.

The Stone Summit pretty much blocked refugees from reaching Lions Arch after Ascalon City was as good as sacked. Not because they needed to do it, just because for the heck of it and maybe as a last battlecry for their deceasing empire. i have to admit my memories fail me for the exact location where this happened, but I have the far Shiverpeaks in mind for that Blockade.

The territory held by hostile Ogre forces is rather small. They are either really bad at invading, hold places undiscovered yet or have been thrown out of territory they once controlled. HoT ogres are pretty helpful and friendly. 2 types of ogres maybe?

maddoctor.2738:

Hawken.7932:

Obviously the LS3 metas were of a lighter variety because it takes a lot of work to pull off the big ones.

LS3 maps are “filler” maps that’s why their meta events are lighter. I don’t expect expansion maps to be like living world maps at all.

What does you bring to this exception? I always thought and still think that HoT is 2 already finished living season sessions hastily cobbled together, bloated a little with minigames and then some five or more sessions of the same kind put behind it. Obviously there were more and better things planned for HoT who would have given the maps more sense storywise, but time probably ran out and the release date was fixed.

Wasn´t a fan of HoT, probably never will be. But it has already been nerfed, and mobs were in my opinion never the problem of HoT.
It was the nauseaing navigation and the greek minotaur bait they call a map named tangle depths. Add that to virtually walling everything behind meta or gliding and you get a very frustrated me. I saw some places only with the help of a friend because I would have wandered that maze for days, and that is just not fun for me.

I also have to give Vayne some credit here. Although he is a pretty unapologetic white knight most of the time, he does not say hooray to everything Anet produces.

Housing in DAOC was a village in itself. It felt great to own a house there at first and it gave some convenience too, but it was pretty pointless too as nobody could enter your house without your permission.

So I am not opposed to housing, but I am not exactly waiting for it either. The biggest damage to the game has alreeady been done with HoT, I am now ready to accept my next punishment in the form of PoF for some weird reason i don´t fully understand myself.^^

If they ever make an appearance in GW2, don´t use them if you don´t like them.

If GW2 can make raids a thing for the ones who want to use it and just let the others hang out to dry, they could do the same for flying. Don´t like it? Your feet and the base content are still there, go ahead and use them.

Contrary to the Asura, the centaurs in ls2 seemed indeed quite civilized and welcoming to me.
If Faolain had not blown it, I am pretty sure that Centaurs and Sylvari in general could come to terms of peace rather quickly, and Norn could come to see them as strong and honorable opponents.

Humans, Dwarfs, Krait and Charr(Asura are a plague in itself, but not a plague for Tyria^^) are the real plague of Tyria. Not Centaurs, Hylek, Ogres, or Dredge who are all more or less the victims of other races powergrabs.
I felt pretty bad after my first invasion of Harathi to be honest, it is pretty clear that this is a Centaur homeland and we are executing a Cavalry style like punishment ride on the natives .

*The Charr invaded human lands and from all sources about their upbringing appear to be largely a ragtag band of socialist grassroot militias united under the flag of the strongest militia leader. Highly aggressive and dismissive of strangers despite being the invaders for the largest part of their story in GW2. Basically the clans from Battletech if you are looking for a neutral example or the SS in the latest war days for an evil counterpart.
*Dwarfs enslaved the dredge and made a mess out of the shiverpeak mountains.
*Krait are slavers, the worst kind of intelligent life if you ask me.
*Humans spread like a plague over Tyria. Everywhere they went they got their butts handed to them basically, so now they are back at square one and have to hold to the few stretches of land they officially control. The probably best nation of humans is controlled by pirates of all people, although pirates came closest to democracy in the age of the great seafarers.

Ardid.7203:

Torolan.5816:

Ardid.7203:

Hyrai.8720:

in HoT it takes you 10min to figure out a way from the ground to a location 50m higher, in PoF it takes tyou 10min to run a (mostly) linear but longer way with just a few mount-jumps. I really don’t see the problem of less waypoints.

This is exactly the reason I don’t like PoF approach. It transforms a game that compels you to explore, to think and to try again into… pressing “forward” key 10 minutes (Or not even that, if you know where the autorun is)…

Maybe I should rethink my stance on mounts after reading this. You already lost me with the word compel.

If a giant rabbit, a teleporter jackal, a hoverboard turned octopus and other animals save me from entering another tangled depths map ever again, I gladly welcome my new mount overlords!^^

Sorry, english is not my primary language. I’m probably wrong with the word.
How do you say something that is defying yet fun, vs something that is spoonfeed-ing-ly boring?

I understood your post in a way that you wanted to say that you like a navigationally challenging map more than an easy map.

I personally hate maps that deny me access to events with hidden paths or large gliding sequences, especially the ones where you have to start from scrath after making a single mistake. i don´t know how often I was looking for the right way up to the Nuhoch village from the waypoint there.
Finding some MPs was simply nervegrinding and I only managed to make some because a friend guided me through them. Tangling depths is lorewise quite nice, but it is a chore if you leave the lanes.

Whole maps should not be reflex or perception tests. Therefore GW2 has optional jumping puzzles.

How has it killed open world in wow? Riding around especially Draenor is a chore, flying mkes you reach all the good dailies in away you want without the need of memorizing the way on land. I see the convenience of a mobile elevator where you see a boring shortcut.

And for the most part, GW2 can´t hold a candle to the lore and the accompanying cinematics of Wow, especially in the starter areas.
The death of Kill`Jaeden cinematic > everything GW2 has ever produced

Ardid.7203:

Hyrai.8720:

in HoT it takes you 10min to figure out a way from the ground to a location 50m higher, in PoF it takes tyou 10min to run a (mostly) linear but longer way with just a few mount-jumps. I really don’t see the problem of less waypoints.

This is exactly the reason I don’t like PoF approach. It transforms a game that compels you to explore, to think and to try again into… pressing “forward” key 10 minutes (Or not even that, if you know where the autorun is)…

Maybe I should rethink my stance on mounts after reading this. You already lost me with the word compel.

If a giant rabbit, a teleporter jackal, a hoverboard turned octopus and other animals save me from entering another tangled depths map ever again, I gladly welcome my new mount overlords!^^

I definitely see some similarities in the development of Asura and Skritt.
*The use of advanced technology
*the will to torture and maul for advancement even among rather moderate specimen.

Then make some slight changes:
*Replace RatOgres with Golems and take warpstone away. There is kind of a warpstone event though(near fireelemental).
*Split race into neutral evil(Asura/Inquest) and chaotic neutral(Skritt)
*Remove the desire to run in a group for Asura

I can perfectly see a deranged Asura use poison gas throwers in a WWI style.

@Hyrai
ok then, I can agree with that. Maybe if you want to reach a special destination right between two waypoints for example.

@Sorudo
If you are ready to accept a rat/smurf combo race that builds Golems and uses lightning or plasma as weapon and on the other hand find waypoints immersion breaking, you are more of an roleplayer than I am.^^

Likewise. You won´t win me for the idea that riding is as good as teleporting and I won´t convince you that teleporting is superior to riding, so lets just keep it that way.

Have you mount, I don´t really care. I lose convenience I don´t really need but find useful, you gain a fun feature. I am used to Anet throwing out many things I thought of making GW2 superior to other games, so this does not really surprise or faze me.

As soon as mounts gain the ability to fly though, and I mean fly and not just float forward or teleport a really short distance over some laughable hole in the ground, I am more than ready to join Team Mount, hooray! ^^

Edit:
@DirtyDan
I already explained my point of view on this. Floating is not flying. Floating is another little brother of Flying as Gliding is too, inferior in many aspects. Just because it may be fun or look cool, it´s still inferior to flying.
If you look in the animal kingdom
Dragonfly: can hover, fly forward and some even backward. Superior flyer.
Sparrow: can fast fly forward, make complex maneuvers, unable to hover. Very good flyer.
I would put the Skimmer somewhere in here. Superior to animals that can not really fly but somehow travel through the air, inferior to anything that can really fly.
Flying squirrel: your basic GW2 glider.
Chicken: Can hop and flap, resembles flying a little bit. Poor flyer.

So a 95% chance to reach something is as good as a 100% chance?

A mount would not have saved you in tangeld depths neither. Navigation wise, this map is a fill for bancruptcy on many levels.

A contested WP is a design desicion that is left from Anets failed attempt to create a really living world. I doubt that we will see lots of them in the future, at least I hope so.

Hyrai.8720:

actually I do doubt that waypoints are always faster.
I’m pretty sure running anywhere in Elona, starting from the nearest WP, will often be faster than finding a way to a specific location in tangled depths starting from the (seemingly) nearest WP.

Find the WP once = your suffering ends.
Ride your mount through miles of desert, die by hoping too far with your target already in sight = Your suffering begins again.

Therefore WP>riding

maddoctor.2738:

Torolan.5816:

*That waypoints are faster is hopefully an uncontested opinion.

It depends on your hardware. Sorry had to say it!

Maybe if you play on the PC of your grandfather and had to type in c:/run when you started GW2^^

DirtyDan.4759:

Rikimaru.7890:

1) Waypoints are faster.
2) They do nothing new.
3) It’s not a realistic approach.
4) They don’t fly.

You have absolutley no clue of what is going on, do you?

1 and 4 are undoubtfully true.
*That waypoints are faster is hopefully an uncontested opinion.
*Levitating over otherwise unpassable terrain is flying only in the most narrow of senses.
Jumping high is also not flying, it is basically preparation for flying if you ask Superman.
Teleporting from one rock to another rock 15 yards ago on the same level of height is as far away from flying as walking over a bridge is.
*I am not sure about reason Nr 2. But if a mushroom can give you the same effect as a rabbit, where is the difference? Not trolling you here, tell me if I miss something.

And realism, yeah well. As Asurahater, I am really glad everytime they get diminished in influence. Maybe Palawa Yoko shares my resentiments and choose to walk by foot or teleport on his own power rather than allow smurfs on his land.^^

I have to both agree with Cra.game and Turk.

*I agree with Cra.game in the regard that the Camelot Herald was a fantastic idea and is so much needed in GW2 to give WvWvW a meaning. You will never get a great memory out of the GW2 WvWvW because it is missing any history keeping of worth.
*High ranks were not for everyone. If you sucked, you stayed something like 2.2 or somewhat like that for a very, very long time.
Battles at hotspots like Caer Beno were epic, and people often came to help whatever they did.

I agree with Turk about nearly all of the rest.
Buffbots were pestering DAOC, a game that asked for monthly subscriptions.
Class Balance was garbage. The reign of the thief classes was the most terrible thing I remember about DAOC.
Ionou or however they were named on Albion were the forefathers of Asura, which makes me despise them even more in retrospect.

FrizzFreston.5290:

Ashantara.8731:

Cyrin.1035:

Which mount are you most excited for?

The horse, of course! Followed by the camel.

Oh, wait… dang. Well, maybe via Gem Store?

I never have seen a horse in Guildwars 2 :p

Edit
After some research the only horse references are locations, items and the celestial horse. Which is veeery strange, if you ask me.

The other day I was also wondering why there are only Risen Bulls, and no Risen Cows. (I guess orrians didn’t drink mills or just only imported male cows. xD

This is indeed interesting. It is the same with Gorillas. Lizards, Sharks and raptors are obviously not clever enough to flee from zombieland.
My idea on this is that cows are herd animals and fled quickly when they felt that the jig was up in Orr. Bulls are of course also herd animals but territorial and stayed when attacked by risen.
Or maybe tenders drove them away before the herds could get attacked and only wandering bulls stayed behind.
Or maybe cows are so full of milk that they are immune to zombification because of the high nutrition value^^.

My first thought about mounts was that a sylvari should be afraid to sit on a giant rabbit.

I am pretty neutral about mounts in general, but events akin to Mad Max II or Mad Max: Fury Road would indeed catch my interest.

I never even attempted to prove HoT was a complete failure, but it surely wasn´t the success Anet had hoped for. They stated that themselves with the free to play to paid game conversions. And maybe you will agree with me theat this surely did not look very good on the record sheet of Anet with their expansion not being a big success but just a short term profitable bump.

I don´t know if that is a minor point or not in their calculations. But it was enough for the CEO to get up and write an open letter where he stated that they understood players concerns and would do better in the next expansion. They did not state what they had understood though, so you may be right when you say that accessibility and gating could be as big of a problem as hard content or even worse. I personally had no complains about the density and skill of HoT mobs. I personally found navigation there tedious at best.

HoT obviously managed to keep GW2 in the mix and let people invest in a second expansion, i don´t debate that. But when did underperforming in an area turn into a success either?

I also did not think about Colin getting fired or not when I wrote that with the CEOs, it as more a general observation with people who fail at the highest position of big companies(lots of people getting fired, shareholders loosing big time money etc etc) and still get paid royally for that. I honestly could not care less if the man was fired or if HoT was the reason he left the company because he probably fell very soft.

TexZero.7910:

I find your arguments highly debatable.

I do not know if there are many people that want to have mostly hard content.
You do neither.

The both of us only know for sure that HoT underperformed in certain areas on the income front for Anet, so I am leaning heavily on the assumption that the hardcore playerbase is not as big as you think.
Mind you that I did not say bombed entirely, but it did not fullfil the exceptions.

I also find it disturbing that you ask people to step up their game.
Maybe you should relax a little bit instead?
The Mount Everest of one guy is the Ant Hill of another.

Again assumptions. People keep using this word fail when in actuality it didn’t meet predictions. Those are not the same thing. One could not meet a sales prediction several ways one of which includes Over-estimation which is a common place occurrence. That however does not mean the product failed. It could simply mean the product was adequate but there was a market shift(I.E people bored of RPG’s, now playing Moba’s or Shooters).

In fact, it’s pretty safe to say that given the metrics solely displayed by the Quarterly reports that HoT didn’t fail and retained players and kept a stable revenue source throughout its 2 year lifespan.

It’s also safe to say, that people who purchased HoT were not enthralled with some content/models. However, that also is not failing. That’s players overhyping and over estimating their own enjoyment factor. [/quote]

Yeah well, I know that it has for some unethical reason become a practice to not quickly fire a CEO or other type of director who has not done his research and failed to predict a shifting market.

Failing to meet a prediction is indeed a common occurence. Companies who come into trouble at the stock market when this happens are common too. So what does this say about the business then? Market analysis is not an exact science like mathematics.

I am not entirely sure about the sales numbers anymore, my bad. But I pretty much remember that a healthy growth curve looks different.

Hyrai.8720:

I’m just gonna step in and name 3 things that make it kinda difficult for ANet to “remember” casuals while developing new expansions.

1. there is a definition for casual. BUT: it can be interpreted very widely

2. casuals want to stay casuals, but also be able to play all the content, otherwise they feel like ANet doesn’t “remember” them. but where do we have to draw the line? in hindsight of #1 – it is possible for one “casual” to play T4-Fractals, while another “casual” already considers them as too hard.

3. if ANet balances all their content to fit into the “casual needs”, they will lose a very big part of the community that wants more challenging content.

so maybe it’s time for you “casuals” to step up and dedicate yourself a little more to the game, or accept that there is a huuuge playerbase that wants challenging content, and you won’t be able to play it unless you step up and “git gud”.

I find your arguments highly debatable.

I do not know if there are many people that want to have mostly hard content.
You do neither.

The both of us only know for sure that HoT underperformed in certain areas on the income front for Anet, so I am leaning heavily on the assumption that the hardcore playerbase is not as big as you think.
Mind you that I did not say bombed entirely, but it did not fullfil the exceptions.

I also find it disturbing that you ask people to step up their game.
Maybe you should relax a little bit instead?
The Mount Everest of one guy is the Ant Hill of another.

I was a long time player and supporter of GW2 as long as HoT had not hit the shelves. I surely won´t preorder PoF and I am also not sure if I will order it anyway to give GW2 a try again.

I fought long and valiantly to stay in the game, even made most of the content in HoT. But raids, minigames, gating, platforming and a ls3 story that started strong but later made little sense and even less fun began to whittle at my resolve so I stopped login in at the start of the year.

I have no interest in mounts, but I am not really against them.

I welcome the return of flat maps, nothing except to wipe over and over again at the same mob puts me off from a game more quickly than running around the same terrain for hours to find the one hidden mountain path. My favorite terrains are in a descending ranking temperate plaine, savannah and tundra.

Mobs were not the problem of HoT if you could halfway play your class. A group content was really a group content in GW2 if you were halfway competent, a seasoned pro could also turn group content into solo content.

Subtract the minigames, revenant and the elite specs, reduce the intensity of the metas a little and then you see how similar HoT and 4 episodes of ls really are. Not on the same level, but quite close.

I log in once every two weeks since around 3 months. I used to play every day, but now I will probably also only come back on patchday at least for now. I will probably order another expansion, but I am not buying stuff I don´t need or want.

I also re-learned from the class primus that needing a tank and a healer makes people more forgiving when they need someone for their group and I don´t have to open up my wallet to change my gear, farm for 30+ days or play garbage I hate if there are options in other games where you are “come as who you are as long as you can heal or tank” .

HoT was hastily assembled together from two or three episodes of ls 2 after an emergency meeting and had to be heavily cut on the ginish line to meet the deadline, I am still sure about that.

My personal point of view is that only because something is not forbidden, it is not automatically ok to do it. Of course there are white collar exploits where nobody is hurt and dirty neck exploits where people massively and untimely benefit from something.

In my opinion risen should be severely diminished on Core Tyria Maps with the exception of the more reclusive parts of Orr even when some champions still produce other Risen.

It is reasonable to assume that the pact destroyed the biggest production sites of risen and the big push against the races like Zhaitan envisioned will never start because Zhaitan can´t command it. If him commanding would not be necessary, champions would start it on their own and would be destroyed at the gates of the big cities because they lack the coordination and reinforcements to attack or even siege a big city when they all act independent.

I am also pretty sure that at least Tequatl realizes the death of Zhaitan after his massive power gain.

Clearly the weakest of the three new maps.
*Icestorms? What is the purpose of them if not just to slow people and entice them to make the mastery? A very weak mob and even more anoying than sandstorms.
*One achievement is just a gold sink.
*I wonder if the Exalted have a challenge ready if you want to go to their bathroom too? They do their best to make your live miserable and complicated even after you have killed their biggest foe.
*Collect stuff. This is my biggest gripe with the map. Why do you have to farm the same stuff over and over if you just want to go there or there? I am usually not adverse to grind, but this could also happen in any true grinder game.
*Quaggan in a bubblebath weathering out crazy Icebrood and other killer creatures nearby. I can basically smell how heroic and world changing this Quaggan dance troupe is.

Askherion.4935:

Hello,

The Forsaken Thicket got his birthday on November 17th with the release of the Spirit Vale. Raiding being introduced in Guild Wars 2 has been all but bumpy, making some people ecstatic, others cry in disappointment, or have them simply “meh” as they enjoy the game their own way.

How has people’s opinions changed/remained over the past year ? This Google survey should take 2 minutes and addresses the following aspects:

• Did you try the Raid; if not, why
• If yes, how far did you make it, how many LIs did you collect
• If you are still raiding, if not why
• Are you happy with Raids in GW2 / expectations.

Google surveys makes it easy to collect answers and visualize results, hence that choice over Strawpoll or other polling utilities. This has also been posted on the GW2 subreddit to get more answers (Here!)

Let’s see if this gets any interest, and happy birthday to the Spirit Vale !

> A Link To The Past Poll<

I don´t realyl like these kind of polls, so I´ll just answer here:
1. I tried VG and escort.
2. Some training runs with the guild, earned 6 magnetite shards and a headache.
3. No, I am not raiding. I think it is boring, tedious, time consuming to set up and execute and more of a job than a game, so I don´t do it.
4. Even if that is an unpopular opinion, I would like to have raids marginalized as much as possible and did not even want them in the game.
GW2 is my only computer game after leaving Eve online and Anet is most of the time unable to make casual and hardcore content at once, so I don´t wanted to tread water while the only content implemented in the game is of no use for me. Before the advent of raids, I never thought about looking out for other games but since then, I am looking out for other MMOs that could catch my interest. Sadly it´s still the best game in a horrible sea of terrible games, so i have to stick with it and bend over for now.

I stand on the firm point of view that hard content should not be used to gate something and a game mode must be able to stand on it´s own without incentive or is bound to fall.
WvW is a prime example for that. Rewards were and are pathetic when you were a scout or a defender, but it was something I loved to do because it felt satisfying and I often paid gold for upgrades, something only a few people ever acknowledged.
I went into raids for the first time and asked my guild mates to look for a replacement for me after an hour. It just didn´t click and felt boring and repetive.

The ascended backpiece was the first piece of equipment that really brought anger for the fractal people. It was only available there so if you liked it or not, you were forced to do fractals if you wanted it. Luckily for me I liked fractals, but I had the fullest sympathy for everyone who did not like it and was dragged into them kicking and screaming so to say.

My suggestion would be to open up legendary armor for open world pve so that everyone that likes to do raids would do them for the thrill and not for the legendary armor. Gold, titles, skins, AP not a problem. A title tells everyone how special you are when you have defeated all the raid mobs as good as your armor does, there is no need to deny the less skilled, fortunate or social players of convenience.

There are a lot of ifs surrounding Caithe and her actions, so many ifs that I can´t really see why people like her. LS2 basically made the character a persona non grata for me and I cringe every time the commander gives her some space.
*Killed her sister
*The weak link under the firstborn because of her personality.
*Borderline blinded with love.
*Secretive even now. I have no doubt that she would do the same if she got another chance with another egg.
*She took away the attention of the commander when the pact did lie in ruins. Granted, we did not know that there would be a city just waiting to guard the egg until it hatches. But the commander is an inspiring authority figure and probably the strongest guy/girl around. So instead of pursuing Caithe, he or she could have actually led the pact as it´s his or her job as the second in command instead of chasing a supposed ally through the djungle.

Braham is at least straightforward. I too think he hates the commander, justified or not, and we will probably meet him in battle sooner or later. The death of Eir falls squarely on the shoulders of Faolain in my opinion, the commander managed to safe both Zoja and Logan and would have also saved Eir if Faolain would not have wounded her.

Sarrs.4831:

In reality, the vast majority of people who participate in LS content have no intention of touching raids with a 10-foot pole and an ‘easy mode raid’ would likely do absolutely nothing for them. It’s a waste of time and effort. Reducing LS content on the other hand would have a very real reduction in the game’s ability to retain players.

This. I am not against easy mode raids if a majority wants it, but I probably still would do them only with groaning and whining. Raid content is simply not attractive for me, I never found much enjoyment in trial and error games against the same mob or mechanic with the same group of people, my arcade days are over. It´s a little bit like with the underwater fractal, I absolutely despise it even on low levels as my direction sense is just bad underwater and underwater combat gets me absolutely lost most of the time.

Caithe took the egg that contained an elder Dragon, a potential desaster for all races on Tyria away, slew her sister for a secret that was bound to be unraveled rather sooner than later and evaded us when we tried to catch her.

Braham found a powerful weapon and is probably able to raise an army with it out of people who are notoriously stubborn and independent. The only guy he initially endangered was himself. With Anet maybe wanting the Dragons out of the way, maybe he even succeeds with his brash attack and becomes a rival instead of an ally?

My personal guess is that people hate on Braham because he badmouthed the flipfloping commander and took the initiative from him like Trahearne and Caithe also did.
Trahaerne was more polite than he is, still people hated him.
People seem to love Caithe despite her doing the same and far worser things than Trahearne.

If not for the demand of dungeon tokens, I would have made a path one time and then abandoned it completely. Once i have unraveled a story, i think of it fondly or not and then leave it behind me to the next story. But I know where you are coming from, a consistent story in Dungeon form would have also been nice.

I personally would transfer the oldest dungeon comletely into a set of fractals once in a few months, kill it´s inherent problems(replace dungeon tokens, make stacking not a viable tactic, etc etc…) and place a new dungeon in the map where the ls took place from where the dungeon is from.
Why?
Because it is the innate purpose of fractals, make players replay stuff from old ls. It does not block the lore and would even enable old maps to evolve too. I would also turn the character story into fractals to enable GW2 to introduce new races and classes without giving them so much of a background barrier. and yes, the new dungeon would have to have speaking voices too. But you don´t have to hire expensive Mark Hamil for your Joker, mind you.^^

For some reason, this solution is not particularly well liked. People obviously prefer to see how Logan and Rhytlock go on each others throats for the umpteenth time in videoform, so i am actually clueless for a good solution for this massive problem.^^

Well, it is not that so many people are left who know what Tower of Nightmares was all about. Some people think that it was just a glorified open world dungeon with a myriad of trash mobs and some fancy winning conditions, other thought it was the best content ever.

I am pretty much satisfied with any new fractal that is not just a mish-mash of former fractals, but when pressed what I want more, a ls1 fractal or a new one, I would have to go with the ls1. although I would also be very interested in the origin of the blue titan of cliffside fractal.

The difference with Marjory and Caithe is that Caithe was hiding something very vital from the Commander, Marjory just wandered off like Braham did too. That Marjory wandered off with Lazarus makes it of course a little suspicious, but it is not like Marjory is endangering Tyria with that.

I am personally a little bit unsure where to put Lazarus in:
*He probably lacks the power to challenge a dragon one to one, even after absorbing so much magic, but is strong enough to burn minions out with ease. That means he needs the help of other powerful beings in a direct confrontation, which would make it logical for him to seek out the people who have already managed to kill 2 dragons.
*I think his change is genuine. I would at least find this refresing to see instead of a villain that is always a villain and will stay a villain.
*I also think that he appears right in time is either cleverly orchestrated from his side or a very unsubtile plot hammer. The later would make him clearly a Gary.

If a game has enough ressources to make stupid minigames, raids for a minority of people and can redesign 4 maps that were praised as the best invention since the wheel, there is also plenty of room for a new race.

I love Soutshun from the day it was introduced. It was the first kick in the teeth of the Berserk Meta as a quick takedown of a karka veteran is not possible and you get your damage dealt back to you quickly. Combine that with low HP and you already got a recipe for people dying from their own damage.^^

He probably wants to say you that groups that raid for fun sooner or later turn into gear check groups and the price for being carried through a raid is on average 250G. Which I find pretty funny as it basically kills the idea of raids as content for only those determined enough to do it and also enlarges it to those who have open wallets.^^

“Dance, dance Revolution mastery.”
Together with Konami, Anet presents the new dance mastery.
Meet exciting new foes like the enraged father that does not want his son to dance, the exotic Cantha dance masters who excite you in 2 hour bollywood movies, the jealous tryhard student trying to topple you or the beautiful tomboy that will be your girlfriend in the end!

Encounter mystical masters of the dance like Tohn Javolta, Wobbie Rilliams, BAAB or the Gee Bees in this new dance themed map and dance your way around your foes instead of battling them. Each master of the dance has written down his knowledge in a tome that is on sale for 1000 gems only!

Comes together with the new Bard class and even more mystical master of the dance like Jichael Mackson, Srank Finatra or Conny Jash can also be your revenant legend!

Obtena.7952:

I don’t get the whole premise that Anet should ask players … Toyota doesn’t as me if I want 10 cup holders do they? ALl threads like this are the same lack of understanding of what you pay for as a customer to an MMO developer … it’s Access to content, not the content itself. If you understand this, you know why it’s silly to ‘ask players’ if something should be done.

While you are technically right, are you playing with your Toyota? I guess you do the same thing with your Toyota as I do with my car, drive to work, to friends or to the supermarket. If the continued exsitence my product is based on customer goodwill, I should at least make a token effort to make them feel relevant.

Also, do you think Toyota has airbags in the car because they like it to build a car that takes longer to build with them? They do it bcause customers aka citizens demanded it through the introduction of laws which made them mandatory.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Torolan.5816:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Torolan.5816:

I rather make the assumption that the number of incoming raiders is smaller than the number of casual players who left because they did not like the new direction of GW2. Anet already heavily backpeddaled with Hot and both of the new maps.

Disliking raids and disliking HoT/WvW/PvP are not the same thing. You link them, apparently, because you dislike both.

My Silver Knight and Tiger ranks disagree with your assumption that I dislike wvw and don´t play pvp. i would be superhappy if Wvw was the endgame of GW2 for example, it very much reminds me of RvRvR from DAOc, but it has some visible flaws and has always been the stepchild.

I also have to agree with Ohoni that raiding is not fun for everyone who tried it. I tried both VG and Escort to see how it is and I find both of these events already tiresome and boring for multiple reasons. I would probably ragequit if I had to face the tougher mobs and wipe even more often for nothing.

I misspoke. I meant to say that you link raids and HoT and (apparently) dislike both, perhaps including the DBL.

I am not the biggest fan of the DBL, but they are basically ok.
I got used to HoT over time, although I find it still tedious and hard to navigate. Especially the last point bugs me as I already spend days wandering around in dark, confusing and lonely places when I was in the military and do not look to do this again in my free time. I have no problems with the mobs there, a game needs new mobs then and when.

You are right when you say that I loathe raids and cringe every time I read about the introduction of even more raids into GW2. It is only the second content(SAB being the first) I adamantly refuse to do after some initial tries to see if I could get used to it in the span of four years, so I am of course concerned if it gets more space instead of stuff I could at least force myself through. I can´t even ignore them like I ignored PvP for the longest time because they hide stuff i would like to build and mastery points.

PS: Anet rather elelgantly solved the lore problem with the diaries. I am satisfied on that front at least with raids.^^

I think you won´t get your upscaling anytime soon, OP. HoT was severely downgraded, the new ls maps are even more easy. If anet wants to change something about the core maps, let them reflect how the risen are slowly driven back and replaced with Mushroom or Mordrem looking for revenge or salvation, or how the nighmare court falls apart or gets new leaders.