Inb4 vayne and the rest of the usual folk. Good post and I agree.
In after Gasoline QQing about Vayne.
As for OP, not sure what I can tell you. Maybe the next MMO will be able to keep that glow after all the paths of least resistance have been discovered, I’m not entirely sold on that possibility.
In b4 Uruz jumps on the Vayne bandwagon and helps keep the clear objectivity at bay with blind fandom.
In after tigirius jumps in with more QQ and haterade weeks after he said he quit the game.
Skoryy, sylvari thief: “Act now, figure out ‘with wisdom’ later.”
Nanuchka, norn mesmer: “BOOZEAHOL!”
Tarnished Coast – Still Here, El Guapo!
Welp, so much for spending lunch break analyzing spidy. I guess I’ll just go back to RP stuff. (And to think I had a couple ectos still sitting at 19s when I logged off last night. At least I know they’re sold by now!)
Skoryy, sylvari thief: “Act now, figure out ‘with wisdom’ later.”
Nanuchka, norn mesmer: “BOOZEAHOL!”
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Clearly there is a problem, I don’t think anyone can argue otherwise with a straight face. The lyssa farm managed to temporarily stabilize dust prices, but with that gone they are back on their parabolic rise.
I don’t think anyone can reasonably argue that the price increase is due to Southsun either. The price stayed completely stable for 15 days after the introduction of the new Southsun content, long past the time most players had completed and left that content. Then 1 hour after the nerf the rise in price started and is still slowly increasing.
So you post the link and don’t expect anyone to actually look at it? Prices have been stable for nearly two weeks.
You can beat on the bubble with your fists going ‘LIVE, kitten YOU, LIVE!’ all you want. The free market just doesn’t work that way.
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Just think, if farming were like it is now back when the game started you would be one of the NCsoft fan bois in here QQin that you couldn’t get your precious legendary fast enough because the farmers can’t provide the mats needed on a timely basis. You can deny this but I’m sure the majority of the community would agree. Go figure.
Thank you for playing, but actually I’m not interested in actively pursuing a legendary. Maybe eventually I’ll start working towards one but none really excite me in the whole ‘must grind ’til my eyes start bleeding’ way.
And I’m sorry, where is your certification to speak for a ‘majority of the community’?
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a.) Yes, I agree. It will take some effort and time. But how much? The game has been out for almost a year. Just because the issue wasn’t as evident on day one as it is now, does not mean it did not exist since day one.
The question is is it even possible. There are dealing with an old engine that originally was not made to do such things. Chances are that the problem is too complicated to attempt to tackle it right now.
That’s entirely the wrong attitude to take.
I saw Paragon pull off some pretty impressive stunts with CoH’s ancient code. Its not impossible. It is, however, likely thakittens a time intensive job requiring an innovative solution.
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Some people just do not get it do they? You can farm an area for one hour before DR kicks in and you have to move anyways. Now one hour farming an area or 6, 10 minute runs through COF1. Both are considered farming.
Now consider this point, killing spiders for an hour in a defined area or moving across the map killing spiders. Both again are farming for a resource. Mining nodes across a map area for ore and lumber can be considered farming. Sitting waiting for an hour for Jormag to show up is essentially farming.
However ANET would have people playing the TP with scripts for hours on end. That is farming to the nth degree and to say that people do not use scripts when doing so is burying your head in the sand and looking elsewhere.
You started off great and then right there in the third paragraph you lost me. TP scripts, uh, yeah, that’s a new one.
Anet does not mind farming. Anet does mind farming that can be taken advantage of to what they see as the economy and community’s detriment. Its that easy.
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Southsun will clearly have had an impact, players move from Orr to Southsun, supply drops and prices rise. Yeah I think everyone has a handle on that situation and people like Vayne are exactly right in bringing it up as it will have had an impact.
What some are suggesting though, is that given the recent (perceived) changes to both timers and loot drops in Orr, it is somewhat questionable that we will see a morass of players return there to farm anything other than the temple events. If that is the case the price may stabilize at best, or continue to rise after a short term drop. Now whether that price rise is out of line with what you can make in terms of gold, well that is another matter. I would say that at the moment, it isn’t an issue.
Personally I don’t see this as a “crisis” but I also don’t buy into the idea that you can constantly nerf a resource and then not expect prices to rise. Or attribute price rises purely to temporary events and overlook the longer term nerfs that have occured.
Fair enough, hence my continued linking to Spidy. If there’s a conversation to be had about the effects of nerfs, buffs, and events, there’s our biggest source of evidence right there. I’ve had a notion to check through all the T6 mats and make a big analysis post on it, but real life and in-game fun have been interfering. Maybe later this week if I can free up the time.
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3 months, and not even a smidgen of news regarding any changes to the way conditions work against other players supposedly helping you. 3 months, with no updates on how condition builds are just outright worse than Berserker builds on a fundamental basis.
Is this their definition of “actively looking at it”? I suppose if you read that literally then yes, they’re definitely looking at it, and not actually doing anything about it.
Can we get an actual status update on the condition cap problem, and not a damage control, crowd-pleasing lie? Does arenanet actually care about this?
a.) As Mirta said, you’re looking at a fundamental change to the game’s engine. That’s gonna take some serious man-hour investment.
b.) You’re also looking at an improvement that goes in the queue alongside all the other improvements like a new LFG tool, fixing PvE cull, and the other dozens of changes that are still being looked at.
So if a dev wants to chime in, sure. But this is likely yet another issue that gets filed under ‘patience’.
Skoryy, sylvari thief: “Act now, figure out ‘with wisdom’ later.”
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You know, as a moderately successful trader who made over 1000g on the TP, Vayne’s post is what I find to be mostly naive and I feel like I need to shut his comments down, especially when people wants to back him up. While I do think the price is going to fall, it’s because Anet’s about to come and change something to the loot system, and not because there’s a lack of players “farming” in Orr, even though it’s part of the reason.
I love the fact thakittens now turning into a crusade to shut Vayne up. Something something then they laugh at you something.
As for Anet’s ‘changing’ the loot system, I have an outstanding question as to whether or not the Magic / Gold Find NPCs will make their way across Tyria, but that remains to be seen.
First of all, I find it highly suspicious that the majority of you know what’s going on in CS. One of the particular events that I do is escorting the NPC to Temple of Melandru, and for participating two of this, I got about 40 moldy bags in total with 160% MF, none of the bags dropped a single crystalline dust. But I did get around 2 crystalline dusts from mobs for the 2 events, in total of 50-60 minutes excluding waiting time. I didn’t bother to check out my tier 5 dust, but I assume it’s around 10-20.
1-3 crystalline dust in 1 hour per player (remember you have DR as well.), so I doubt people are going to want to “farm” in CS.
Because dust is all they’re going for, and not omnoms, orichalchum, other T6 mats, and the chance for the odd rare or exotic.
So in theory, if Anet doesn’t do anything, demand will rise (because players are waiting for Anet to do something/looking forward to patch fix) or continue to wait. In any case, the damage is definitely done. I can hardly see the supply outstripping the demand currently, mainly because another source (union waypoint) has been completely closed.
Which is why sell orders are up, buy orders are dropping back towards 30k, and the price has been pretty flat for a good week.
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The OP’s argument is that DR affects content. And it does. Say, you 4 hours a week, all in one evening. Say you just want to do one particular part of the game on that evening. DR will tell you to stop that content after less than 1 hour. Because, simply put, the rewards will stop. And rewards are part of the gaming experience. Take out the reward part, and – for most people – that dimishes the fun of experiencing that content. It’s that simple.
I don’t get this argument. DR says I can’t farm one spot incessantly for less than one hour. It doesn’t say I can’t farm my way around a zone, hitting up mobs and nodes as I go. It doesn’t say that I can’t switch to another alt if I gather up all the nodes in that zone.
Anthony B. came out and admitted that Anet does not mind farming and laid out the instigators as an example of ‘this is OK.’ They just don’t want you botting one zone ’til the cows come home.
Now, let’s take it one step further and apply this example to practice. Let’s consider the above person is part of a guild that has more time on their hands. They run dungeons, competitive WvW, etc. Let’s say this person wants to deck him/herself out in one set of dungeon gear, within the least amount of time possible (of which that person has FAR less than the others), so that he/she can join the guild on their runs. To have a fun experience with his guild (and without dying every other minute due to a lack of gear, which is definitely not fun). Arenanet says: No. You shall do other dungeons first, or other zones, whatever you want – except what you want to do now. That’s part of the problem the OP was talking about. It’s schizophrenic game design. DR doesn’t just punish the “grinders”, it punishes everyone.
I’m not getting this argument either. What’s preventing this person from getting good stat gear from the market or karma vendors? Why doesn’t he take his time to build himself up the set he wants, you’ve already said his time is limited so its not like he’s going to get it all in one sitting to begin with.
You’re taking select, perhaps fringe examples, to say the game design is ‘schizophrenic.’ That’s not a good argument, even less so when you’re considering a game population in six-to-seven digits. You can’t appease everyone, you do what you can to make sure the vast majority is appeased.
Skoryy, sylvari thief: “Act now, figure out ‘with wisdom’ later.”
Nanuchka, norn mesmer: “BOOZEAHOL!”
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The latest case of “farming nerfs” was actually a bug fix. I’m aware of this because I was asked to help identify the issue. The area in question contained a spawn that was defined to have more creatures than spots for those creatures to spawn. So for example, 25 skelks spawning on 10 points. This is not intended. Not only does it just look absurd, it’s also leads to some extremely bizarre play conditions. This is one of those bugs that’s so buggy, the fact that our toolset even allowed this to happen is a bug. Another bug caused this bug. Bugception.
If we didn’t want players to be able to farm, we wouldn’t have put in the huge (and free) magic and gold find buffs for Southsun Cove. We wouldn’t drop loot from the giant mobs of creatures that appear in upscaled events. We certainly wouldn’t have put in chests that appear after events which cycle every 8 to 10 minutes. How quickly all of that content goes completely forgotten in the angered responses to a simple change to an area that was clearly bugged. :/
On farming in general, there’s a sweet spot that combines good loot with fun, engaging content. I think Southsun had that going for it, especially before certain aspects of the content were isolated as optimal. As someone who’s actively working on upcoming Living World releases, I’m aiming to find that sweet spot and hit it in a big way.
Coming in late, but I’ve been thinking on this today…
Was Southsun a preview of things to come? For example, Magic / Gold Find NPCs spread across Tyria?
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You know, they do the temples almost every several hours on my server to, and when I run with them there are always a few people who ask what happened to the loot, cause you leave Orr with almost nothing but the loot you get from the temple chests and some porous bones, might have a few heavy moldy bags, but you dont get much from just a few bags. All the events in Orr have been nerfed and all the mobs loot tables have been nerfed and anyone that tries to say differently is either an Anet employee or delusional.
Click the link again. Move the graph back to February. Notice the sell listings during March. Compare to where they are now. Show us where the nerf from pre-Lyssa numbers is at.
On that note, then look at April. And May, and then right before the Lyssa nerf hit. The number of sell listings doubled to 10k in the six days leading up to the nerf. Show us how that was working as intended.
That post proves nothing except how expensive T6 dust is. The only place to Acquire it is in Orr and if you go there and try and farm it from risen, all they pretty much drop is porous bones cause Anet has nerfed the crap out of the place and no one goes there anymore except to do Temples.
It shows that there was a greater problem at Lyssa than just inconsiderate farmers. It also shows us that any cries of ‘stealth nerf’ don’t match with the fact that production now is roughly where it was before Lyssa became dust farmer central.
The facts are there, its your call if you want to argue against them or not.
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It’s only a matter of time before the speculator’s stash, which is now being dumped on the TP, gets run out. It’s going to run out, just like how armored scales ran out after a few months.
The average player must hope that they patch the drop rate before it runs out.
I wonder what the next excuse will be when the drop rate doesn’t run out. ‘The speculators had really really big stashes!’
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In other words, we are virtually going into negative supply flow at the rate it is being used than the rate it is being “created”, so to speak.
Not long ago, sell order supply was nearly 0 and now it’s nearly 5000 units. It’s also been said that the dust is used in many crafting/forge recipes, do you have data on how much is sold and how much is consumed each day? You seem to be making a lot of assumptions based on little evidence.
From what I see there has been some manipulation of the market by opportunists, plus a drop in the number of people gathering the dust which led to an increase in price. This in turn leads to the dumping of hoarded supplies by those same opportunists, and an increase in gathering by people who notice the higher price, which leads to an increase in supply.
In the words of one of recent history’s greatest philosophers, “Don’t Panic.”
EDIT: Stretching the graph back to February, 5k seems to be around the ‘sweet spot’. Comparing now to March/April, I’m wondering if/when the bubble goes pop.
And to throw on another anecdote, Cursed Shore was hoppin’ again last night on TC.
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So you are saying he bought at 81, then selling the stuff at 89/90? With the TP fees he would be going -4c profit on that transaction (using “bad things” you can get close to 0 but never positive).
It’s still what the guy did. You can argue logic all you like but the fact is the market was manipulated and the buyers will always be the loser in these situations.
So he manipulated the market to take a loss. Well alrighty then.
Skoryy, sylvari thief: “Act now, figure out ‘with wisdom’ later.”
Nanuchka, norn mesmer: “BOOZEAHOL!”
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Transmute stones onto “whites” make items account bound, not soulbound. I used this method to transfer the (previously soulbound) Necro “ghost eyes” to a Mesmer. I haven’t tried it with Orders armor, but it seems like this should be possible.
You can do that? Score, Skoryy can get his headband back now. Thanks for the tip!
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They get focused so much on this one mechanic that all of a sudden they can’t have fun – and the biggest part of a MMO to me, is the fun you create for yourself by playing with people (otherwise I wouldn’t need to be online).
+1’d for that right there.
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My grenades give vulnerabilities on hit. Should a percentage of the warrior’s 100b damage be attributed to me instead since I gave him 3-5-10% extra incoming damage?
I want to know where on the DPS meter it shows me dropping Shadow Refuge to rez a downed zerk warrior.
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Most mystical elitists, as you put it, don’t consider themselves elitists. They think they’re perfectly fine. If you went and put up a thread targeting bigots, you wouldn’t expect people to put up their hands. Are you suggesting bigotry doesn’t exist?
Wha- Really? Your analogies are not helping here.
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Vayne, your general assumptions are outrageous. “Casuals will spend more, thats a fact”. How do you know? Casuals might view this game as a pass-time hobby, something to do for an hour each night, and then log off, not taking the game too seriously. Thus, why would they spend money on it? If I am a casual, and I only play for a short period each night or every other night, why would I want to invest a lot of money in something that I spend little time on, and possibly care little about? Youre entire arguement is insane and infact contradicts logic.
I’m throwing the flag, there’s too many absolutes between the both of you. Its likely that casuals such as myself with less free time and more money will actually spend considering that we’re enjoying what time we can spare with our favorite hobby. That’s my experience. That said, its also not a certainty. Some will spend less, some will be more hardcore.
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It says alot about intelligence (didn’t say who so don’t infract, like for anything else)
Star wars clearly has star wars elements, gw2 doesn’t. Oh and if you think i’m wrong let’s discuss it in Cantha, hahahahahahahahahahahahaha.
And this really says it all.
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And like guy above this post said, if this is named anything diffrent then Guild Wars most of the people that didn’t left (yet) would leave long time ago.
Bioware’s Star Wars: The Old Republic.
You were saying?
Name it something else it’s star wars clearly (you know how lithsaber looks like), name this something else and it’s just another generic MMO (5 races fighting dragon that can’t move)
So if it was named something else it wouldn’t be as popular, but the same argument doesn’t count for a Bioware Star Wars game.
I think that pretty much says everything there.
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That’s profit of NCSoft, and GW2 doesn’t bring them most money.
So you haven’t read the NCSoft quarterly then. $36 million is GW2’s contribution to NCSoft’s revenues. Its all there in the report.
And like guy above this post said, if this is named anything diffrent then Guild Wars most of the people that didn’t left (yet) would leave long time ago.
Bioware’s Star Wars: The Old Republic.
You were saying?
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EA says TOR ‘more than doubled’ their numbers last quarter from their 400-500k subs. That puts them in the $15 to 22.5 million range. That also includes a paid expansion as well.
Now then, do you have any counter-facts?
ToR went free to play. I don’t doubt that increased their concurrent numbers, but it is unlikely it increased their sub fees. >.>
My bad, I should’ve been clearer. They said they more than doubled their revenues.
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Arenanet needs to realise (or NCSoft) that so called “casual” players are not going to give them big profit in long terms.
Why not?
Cause it’s impossible, that is why all those f2p games are mostly p2win, cause there are many players who will pay hundreds of dollars MONTHLY just to be better then others.
So… that’s it? Whales allegedly buying their way to ‘victory’?
I’ve said it before, I’ll say it again: Yesterday’s college kid playing WoW is today’s gamer with a job and/or a family. There’s a market out there for gamers with not-as-much time on their hands fondly remembering days of yore in Azeroth and Norrath, that’s one of the markets Anet is hoping to take advantage of.
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Lol, i doubt gw2 is even on top 10 of MMO (popularity wise) at this state. (wow, star wars, runes of magic, lineage, vindictus, runescape……)
Guild Wars 2 made over $36 million last quarter.
EA says TOR ‘more than doubled’ their numbers last quarter from their 400-500k subs. That puts them in the $15 to 22.5 million range. That also includes a paid expansion as well.
Now then, do you have any counter-facts?
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Tarnished Coast – Still Here, El Guapo!
Hi,
Something just hit my mind…ouch, it hurt. I remember during the AMA in November that Chris Whiteside said he’d like to have more AMAs in the future, and pretty regularly too. What happened to those? I know he did not promise anything at all, but we all would agree (and I think Anet would too) that those AMAs were really good, and fun.
I enjoy asking questions and having arenanet devs respond directly to my question. It made me feel like my concerns were important. Even if someone had a similar question and that question was answered instead of mine, it was time well spent to watch.
It would be nice to get bi-monthly AMAs going or something. Or maybe once a quarter.
There’s still State of the Game chats on gw2guru. but that’s more PVP-oriented?
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Fortunately there is this thing called math and statistics which allows content to be designed with appropriate numbers without needing a dev to ASDW-key a character through every inch of designed content
It is of course true that there are frequently differences between theory and practice of course, and as a dev just said, this one was the result of a ‘bug of a bug’.
Fair enough, especially after getting corrected by a redname. Though I think math, stats, and simulations can still only take you so far. Working in software deployment and maintenance myself, I’m just all too familiar with no plan surviving first contact with the customer.
Skoryy, sylvari thief: “Act now, figure out ‘with wisdom’ later.”
Nanuchka, norn mesmer: “BOOZEAHOL!”
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ITT: Assuming that a festival dragging every big name to Lion’s Arch will wind up being pure fluff. Its like nobody was paying attention to Lord Faren and his new ladyfriend.
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Much of the problems with farming arise due to the fact that MMO players HATE HATE HATE having access to something, then having it taken away.
If these sort of overly-high spawn locations were better tested in-house before being released there would be much less sadness over farming nerfs (because they wouldn’t be needed).
The devs don’t have nearly as many man-hours available to finding farm spots as the players do.
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TLDR: Their metrics are worthless because everything is based on CoF runs, which is the only major gold creation source in the game. If they changed CoF the entire market would be thrown into chaos, which is probably why it hasn’t been nerfed yet since it might destabilize the entire game.
The economy’s stable, but a good chunk of the liquidity is coming from CoF. The $64,000 question is how do you take CoF out of the equation without creating spiraling deflation or inflation.
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Or the prices of dust will be so high that people see money in the farms again. Both things could happen.
I wouldn’t say as much seeing money in the farm, as in seeing money in doing stuff around Orr. Which may be part and parcel of Anet’s thought process: Stop bot farms and give players reasons to go back to Orr. Win-win.
Skoryy, sylvari thief: “Act now, figure out ‘with wisdom’ later.”
Nanuchka, norn mesmer: “BOOZEAHOL!”
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But no one can deny this game has problems, and when I say destroy I don’t like mean it’s going to end gw2, just that in terms of popularity it’s going to do very well.
And in before ESO failing hardcore!! xD
My hope is that Wildstar does well. I’ll leave my fears to see if they’re founded after it releases.
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Again, and I’ll keep repeating it, the price is going to go back down after the Southsun event, when people return to farming Orr. Orr has more dust than Southsun. Just like the price of armored scales and blood as gone down because of Southsun.
Sooner rather than later? It looks like the instigators have been fed to the karka.
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I wouldn’t be surprised if Wildstar destroys Guild Wars 2, because let’s be honest, gw2 really isn’t a holy grail of an mmo that so many people make it out to be. As much as I like this game, and trust me, I do, it has so many problems it’s unreal.
A more enlightened thought would be that a casual-friendly do-your-own-thing game like GW2 would have its own place alongside a hardcore raid progression sandpark like Wildstar.
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Southsun has become a farm between two enraged settler events. The farmers do NOTHING 24/7 but pat back and forth between those two mobs (*), and queue for CoF p1/2.
This is a blessing for the rest of us. We can now avoid these fools with ease. Other than an occasional bad attitude person, the rest of the game has improved dramatically now that the farmers have been herded out of the way.
Speaking for myself, I kinda like that there’s roving gangs of instigator hunters for when I’m done roaming Southsun for nodes and mobs. Its a nice change of pace and the drops aren’t shabby either.
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Nanuchka, norn mesmer: “BOOZEAHOL!”
Tarnished Coast – Still Here, El Guapo!
Here I thought players could enjoy farming as a legitimate GW2 activity. But, no, it’s “gaming the game.”
What exactly does that mean, anyway?
It means harming the game’s balance as created and maintained by the devs.
ArenaNet’s overreach is the farmer’s fault? If it wasn’t working as intended, they should have just implemented draconian DR. Problem solved.
That’s not the problem. Sure, a few people farming a goldmine won’t hurt much. But then a few more learn what they’re up to and join in. And a few more after that. And more and more join and, well…
Does the term ‘AE Baby’ ring any bells?
Skoryy, sylvari thief: “Act now, figure out ‘with wisdom’ later.”
Nanuchka, norn mesmer: “BOOZEAHOL!”
Tarnished Coast – Still Here, El Guapo!
Apparently shorting the supply of t6 mats and letting the price drive endlessly upward is okay but giving out rares let and right and crashing the price of ectos is cool.
