Guild Wars 2

It’s entirely possible that Anet is testing something new to replace magic find on armor.

There is something everyone should know before they judge the manifesto.

Ree was talking about the personal story…Colin was talking about dynamic events.

This clarification was released in a post on Guild Wars 2 guru shortly after the manifesto was released due to the confusion editing caused.

No one said every single dynamic event in the entire world was going to chain. Some would chain. That’s it. This was made clear over and over again.

By the way, a manifesto, by definition, is a statement of intent. That’s all it is. It’s not a guarantee of service.

/thread

Yep, I gave up trying to play this game as a completionist. I ignore a lot of the limited time stuff in the cash shop including minis. I think the market pressure to buy something now is just abysmal.

I do buy thinks like the mining pick, or some skins I like (the short bow and quiver come to mind) but I’m not interested in trying to keep up with everything that can be put in the cash shop anymore.

The same thing happened to me in Guild Wars 1. I used to buy every costume that came out until I realized I had more costumes than characters. lol

I tried tipping a mesmer, but he just got right back up afterwards.

@dimgl

A lot of people in this thread have talked about how monster groups were varied and supported each other. So if you have a couple of healers lets say and they could heal each other (think of Mungri magic box and the dredge healer usually found with him), that group would be massively hard to solo. You couldn’t damge the first healer, because mungri is healing him. You couldn’t damage Mungri because the second healer is healing him. You can’t damage anything else because 1 guy can’t do enough damage. Maybe one guy build just for interupts could get lucky but then you’d have to have every character be replete with interupts.

There were enough combinations in Guild Wars 1 that you could be only because you had a party of people. You had an interupter, you had a healer, you had a damage mitigation guy, you had a minion master, you had a spirit spammer. That was how a lot of Guild Wars 1 played. You basically had your own personal zerg against whatever you were fighting.

Guild Wars 2 doesn’t play like this. I don’t see why this is blowing your mind.

For those who have trouble with jumping puzzles as a charr or norn, any tonic that turns you into a humanoid also allows you to jump. My wife has the everlasting christmas doll tonic which she keeps on her norn, so she can make herself small while doing jumping puzzles.

Sebulon.7683:

It should cost WvW badges instead of gold.

So people could get it by farming the jumping puzzle on every alt each day.

Almost definitely. Unless something goes drastically wrong between now and then. So far, I’m having fun with the game, but it needs work. Hopefully most of that work will be done long before an expansion comes out.

dimgl.4786:

Vayne.8563:

The problem is, Guild Wars 1 was instanced and Guild Wars 2 is open world. So the more interested stuff has to be in dungeons. You can’t have mixed mobs respawning in the open world, no matter what players want, because far more players will be annoyed by it than players who want it.

snip

1
Sure there were challenging runs in Guild Wars 1 (like the Droks run). Except it’s not challenging at all with a full party once you know it and have the right build. It’s only fun/challenging with a smaller party. You’ve changed the rules of the game.

So do the same thing here. Test yourself. Take off half your armor and then try the Cursed Shore. Try to solo a veteran karka. Try to run the Grawl tunnel in Frostgorge.

The last many years of Guild Wars 1, the game was so easy as to be unplayable. Those who fondly remember the Droks run, or the hydras in the crystal desert, are remembering a point in time.

Very often there are harder creatures and groups in dungeons in this game…but people don’t want to run the hard paths. They’d much rather repeat CoF path 1.

I don’t think you have any idea of what you’re saying.

Firstly, content became irrelevant in Guild Wars because more and more skills were introduced into the skill pool as expansions came out. This meant that more efficient builds were found and eventually, many areas became faceroll easy. It also did not help that players can select two classes. From a balancing perspective, this is a nightmare, and that’s why invincitanks and other forms of super players existed.

Instancing has absolutely nothing to do with game design and combat mechanics. With the correct implementation, the old Guild Wars skill system could have been used in Guild Wars 2. Unfortunately, they opted for a simpler system for the sake of having scalability in the open world.

Your argument is that content is too hard, and therefore people will stop playing it. This has nothing to do with combat mechanics. Many mobs in Guild Wars had trivial skill sets and could be solo’d by a single character.

The real problem is that with the current system, we have mobs that mostly function the same, are incredibly boring to fight, and are generally avoidable. The fact that ArenaNet decided to those with this slapdash mechanic of creating mobs that have modifiers and not actual player skills is hurting the PvE metagame.

There are so many ways that the original Guild Wars system could have been implemented into Guild Wars 2. In fact, I’d even go as far to say that it would have been in their best interest to do this, as it would make fights more interesting and dynamic. Nothing stopped them from having monster skills in the first game “Spectral Agony anyone?” and I don’t see why Guild Wars 2 should be any different.

I have every idea of what I’m saying. The problem here is that YOU don’t know what I’m saying.

The reason why the game as it stands can’t have mobs the way Guild Wars 1 did is down to the mechanics of the open world, combined with dynamic events.

For example, an event goes up someone wants to get to. This is something that never happened in instanced Guild Wars 1 since everything was for the player. If people couldn’t run by mobs, if they had to stop and fight every mob, and they couldn’t get to the events they wanted in time, they’d feel frustration and get angry. This happened in Rift with people getting knocked off mounts and slowed while trying to run through areas. The playerbase complained until Trion fixed it.

Imagine someone saying the maw is up, people teleport to the waypoint, they get hit by same low level grawl and miss the maw altogether. Yeah, happy player base.

The other problem is the respawn rate, or that creatures respawn at all. In a game like Guild Wars 1, there were no respawns. There were a few hidden creatures that drop, always in the same place and basically mobs that could easily be predicted. But here creatures respawn and the respawn rate, as noted by many people, is often very fast.

Imagine if there were healers here, in this game, and rits and minion masters, and they were all respawning all the time, and some poor solo guy playing off hours had to deal with that. It’s not possible.

You can’t have heroes because of the open world, because if everyone had 7 heroes, the game would lag so badly as to be unplayable. You can’t have a game that you can’t solo the open world because so many people do solo. There’s even a Q&A in the Guild Wars 2 FAQ about soloing.

I’ve yet to see any MMO with particularly interesting encounters in the open world. Most of those encounters are reserved for instances.

The game needs work before an expansion is worked on. It released too early and many features haven’t been added yet, including the much waited for LFG tool. Until the quality of life issues are dealt with, including balance and more viable builds for certain professions, I’m not sure I’d want to see a new zone.

Every game needs a firm foundation upon which to build the future. Guild Wars 2 has a tremendous amount of potential but if the foundation isn’t improved, it will eventually crumple.

Let’s hope the devs think this way and shore up the game before adding new zones.

Dante.1508:

Sea of Sorrows has seen a huge decrease in activity lately. Yes we had overflows in southsun but its the first i’ve seen in many months but the rest of the game is pretty dead server wise…

SOS used to be packed..

Same with Tarnished Coast..but it started the day the South Sun stuff started. It’s simply too rewarding for people to go to South Sun with the magic find buff and farm there. Everyone is doing it, even low level players because there’s no reason not to.

Aigleborgne.2981:

Creeper.9360:

What made monsters in Guild Wars 1 more interesting was that they were in groups and they had synergy together along with group tactics. If you took them as individuals they would be just as mundane as it is in Guild Wars 2.

I prefer squad based games in large part because they can make more interesting encounters with it.

Even alone, many of them were equal to 2-3 gw2 monsters. Karka are an exception but find one GW2 monster that can come close to an hydra in GW1 ?

I didn’t find the hydra that tough. They had meteor and that’s it. Nothing else they did remotely mattered. Not to me anyway. Sure if you got a bunch of them, the meteors would hurt. So you didn’t get a bunch of them. You took them one, two at a time. Actually even three wasn’t that hard to deal with.

It might well have been different when the game launched, but when I played it hydras were no big deal even in hard mode.

Arkham Creed.7358:

Vayne.8563:

Arkham Creed.7358:

Vayne.8563:

That unessential crap, as you call it, keeps people coming back to the game. Not to say that what you want is wrong, or misguided or anything like that, I’m just saying that if they stopped the other stuff the population would shrink.

Many people today have the attention span of a fly. They move from thing to thing so fast, they expect to be constantly spoon-fed entertainment. If they don’t get it, they’re bored.

You’re not wrong in asking for something that should be done, but saying the other stuff is waste is probably not true.

There are two counter arguments to your point. First; people are leaving because certain problems are not being fixed, and I’ve seen several people turn away from the game because of the nature of this new content; disliking both RNG based cosmetic content and “temporary” story content. You can’t please everyone of course, but all that really means is that Arena Net is loosing players either way.

Second; World of Warcraft. Or any other traditional MMO that is lucky to get a content update once or twice a year yet still has a massive player base. Yes I know those games tend to “hook” players with Skinner Box gameplay tricks and sub-fees. Point is there are alternatives to constant content updates. Don’t get me wrong; I like that Arena Net has decided to keep pumping out content, but I personally feel like quality of life improvements, bug fixes, and balance should be a higher priority than tentacle backpacks and vague suggestions of what a perverted noble from Divinity’s Reach has been doing with his time.

Your counter arguments are only valid if more people aren’t coming back because of these upgrades than people are leaving. Have you been to Southsun Cove. It’s packed all hours of the day and night. We had five people all party up on south sun and every single one of us was on a different overflow.

I’m sure some people do leave for these reasons. But you don’t know those numbers and neither do I. Anet does. I’m pretty sure if it was the problem you think it is, they’d have done something about it by now.

If what they’re doing is getting people back in the game every month, it’s definitely worth the resources to do it.

I suppose that logically I have no choice but to concede your point. I just have trouble accepting it. Personally I feel like “under the hood” maintenance and repair should be prioritized over existing content fixes, and existing content fixes should be prioritized over new content. I understand why they are working as they are, I just feel like it is a backwards way of doing things. All they’re really doing is just adding to their workload; creating more content they have to fix later (case and point; the tentacle backpack is bugged and its animation isn’t working).

Again, there are fixes being made to other things, just not as quickly as you’d like. As I pointed out, rangers have recently received some love and some of that has spilled over to necro pets as well. It’s not night and day, but it’s definitely a step in the right direction.

Changing too much stuff like that at one time, though is simply asking for trouble.

Nick.6972:

Might be wrong, but, year after the original GW released we already had Factions and Sorrow’s Furnance.

Not to mention PvP was great and you could play it endlessly.

Yep a year after Prophecies released, you had Sorrows Furnace (which is not as replayable to me as Fractals, or even close) and you had Factions (which was a completely different game that split the population in 2 parts and caused other problems as well). Of course Factions wasn’t a free expansion, so you can’t compare it, can you?

The monthly content patches we get are free. And some people seem to enjoy them. If you don’t, I’m sure you can probably find a game you like. After all, you’re not paying for the expansions.

I think the kind of guild you end up in will greatly affect how your perceive a game. A social guild (there are plenty of them) is a lot of fun. They often don’t take dungeon runs too seriously. Anyone can come on any character, and it might take longer than some of the other guilds who focus on efficiency, but people generally have fun.

The end game is Guild Wars 2 disappoints a lot of WoW players because it really doesn’t have a traditional end game. There are eight dugneons, each with multiple paths through them, with different bosses. There is the Fractals of the Mists, which is probably my favorite of the dungeons. And there are monthly events which have all sorts of different things to do depending on the month.

Right now there’s a big monthly event on at Southsun Cove, the newest area in the game. Even if you’re not level 80 you can still participate, because when you go there, your health and armor are leveled up to the equivalent of 80 and there are plenty of people around to help with events.

Welcome back to the game. Hope you have fun!

Arkham Creed.7358:

Vayne.8563:

That unessential crap, as you call it, keeps people coming back to the game. Not to say that what you want is wrong, or misguided or anything like that, I’m just saying that if they stopped the other stuff the population would shrink.

Many people today have the attention span of a fly. They move from thing to thing so fast, they expect to be constantly spoon-fed entertainment. If they don’t get it, they’re bored.

You’re not wrong in asking for something that should be done, but saying the other stuff is waste is probably not true.

There are two counter arguments to your point. First; people are leaving because certain problems are not being fixed, and I’ve seen several people turn away from the game because of the nature of this new content; disliking both RNG based cosmetic content and “temporary” story content. You can’t please everyone of course, but all that really means is that Arena Net is loosing players either way.

Second; World of Warcraft. Or any other traditional MMO that is lucky to get a content update once or twice a year yet still has a massive player base. Yes I know those games tend to “hook” players with Skinner Box gameplay tricks and sub-fees. Point is there are alternatives to constant content updates. Don’t get me wrong; I like that Arena Net has decided to keep pumping out content, but I personally feel like quality of life improvements, bug fixes, and balance should be a higher priority than tentacle backpacks and vague suggestions of what a perverted noble from Divinity’s Reach has been doing with his time.

Your counter arguments are only valid if more people aren’t coming back because of these upgrades than people are leaving. Have you been to Southsun Cove. It’s packed all hours of the day and night. We had five people all party up on south sun and every single one of us was on a different overflow.

I’m sure some people do leave for these reasons. But you don’t know those numbers and neither do I. Anet does. I’m pretty sure if it was the problem you think it is, they’d have done something about it by now.

If what they’re doing is getting people back in the game every month, it’s definitely worth the resources to do it.

Arkham Creed.7358:

Vayne.8563:

Arkham Creed.7358:

darkace.8925:

Arkham Creed.7358:

I never said more important, that was you. What I said was that cosmetic additions in general were obviously a higher priority than Collin’s comment would suggest. Heck just look at the ratio of class fixes to new cosmetic content of the last few patches and you’ll see that one is clearly getting more attention than the other. I don’t mean to sound as if I think a cosmetic issue effecting one profession should be held above general content that can be enjoyed by all; obviously that is ridiculous. But I am pointing out that apparently Arena Net has placed higher priority on cosmetic additions than “quality of life” improvements and new features; the exact opposite of what Collin suggested.

You may not know this, but the guys working on cosmetic additions are not the same guys who make class fixes or “quality of life” improvements.

Yes, yes; I know there is a difference between an art team and an engineering team. That said they are connected. For example who do you think had to add those new drops to loot tables, or scripted a bunch of new achievements in order to get a backpack that serves only to invite “I’ve seen enough hentai…” jokes? And do you think recent quality team meetings were focused on checking to see if ranger pets weren’t still morons, or that engineers weren’t universally underpowered, or were they focused on approving the blink animation on the “totally not ripping off Soul Calibur” themed weapons?

I don’t know…they’ve made some decent improvements on ranger pets recently, so yeah, I think they must have talked about it at some point.

My point still stands; the efforts of one team effect the entire development process. That said I actually am willing to wait for this. In fact I don’t care if it takes an actual boxed expansion for Arena Net to correct this little oversight (really all it is), so long as their efforts in the short term are focused on improving the core elements of the game, and making sure that the basic game is as good as it can be. Clearly however that isn’t the case. Arena Net have said themselves that what their focused on right now is the Living Story. Their game and their choice of course, but it is frustrating.

I would greatly prefer that they suspend all development of new content and the living story completely until they actually fix the bugs and balance the game. And I know I’m not alone in that either. Obviously Arena Net has chosen to waste time and money on unessential crap like the Southsun Cove events, so is It really so wrong that I would like them to waste a little time and money correcting a problem that should have never existed in the first place? After all this whole legendary kit issue is only coming up now because someone on the development team didn’t think ahead when the engineer was first being thought up.

That unessential crap, as you call it, keeps people coming back to the game. Not to say that what you want is wrong, or misguided or anything like that, I’m just saying that if they stopped the other stuff the population would shrink.

Many people today have the attention span of a fly. They move from thing to thing so fast, they expect to be constantly spoon-fed entertainment. If they don’t get it, they’re bored.

You’re not wrong in asking for something that should be done, but saying the other stuff is waste is probably not true.

Embolism.8106:

Vayne.8563:

Embolism.8106:

Vayne.8563:

Okay so what about people like me who love the game, but live in Australia. The latency issue pretty much guarantees I’ll never win a game. It’s impossible to keep away from people if you can’t actually see where they are.

Basically most people who live outside the US but not in Europe is screwed out of that achievement/title.

I have all the other titles, but not that one.

I play from Australia and I can get Champion quite regularly. Latency is well compensated for in GW2 compared to many other games.

Half the time when I go to knock the ball from someone’s hand, they’re ten feet away a second later. I know it’s not the computer. My connection is pretty fast. I don’t have the problem in SPvP, but I definitely have it here.

Also I should mention there were quite a few australians talking about the same thing in Lion’s Arch, who have the same problem. Maybe it’s where you are in Australia but this isn’t my imagination.

I live in Brisbane and my connection is mediocre. I think what you’re experiencing are the lag spikes that plague this particular minigame, it happens to everyone. Not a latency problem.

That may be. But I don’t think I’m bad enough at the game to never get more than half the high score. Maybe I am.

I watch my wife play on her machine as well, it’s right next to mine and the same thing happens to her. But I’m thinking that even if there’s a .25 second latency, which doesn’t seem unreasonable, it would give anyone but the absolute best players no chance at all.

Embolism.8106:

Vayne.8563:

Okay so what about people like me who love the game, but live in Australia. The latency issue pretty much guarantees I’ll never win a game. It’s impossible to keep away from people if you can’t actually see where they are.

Basically most people who live outside the US but not in Europe is screwed out of that achievement/title.

I have all the other titles, but not that one.

I play from Australia and I can get Champion quite regularly. Latency is well compensated for in GW2 compared to many other games.

Half the time when I go to knock the ball from someone’s hand, they’re ten feet away a second later. I know it’s not the computer. My connection is pretty fast. I don’t have the problem in SPvP, but I definitely have it here.

Also I should mention there were quite a few australians talking about the same thing in Lion’s Arch, who have the same problem. Maybe it’s where you are in Australia but this isn’t my imagination.

Arkham Creed.7358:

darkace.8925:

Arkham Creed.7358:

I never said more important, that was you. What I said was that cosmetic additions in general were obviously a higher priority than Collin’s comment would suggest. Heck just look at the ratio of class fixes to new cosmetic content of the last few patches and you’ll see that one is clearly getting more attention than the other. I don’t mean to sound as if I think a cosmetic issue effecting one profession should be held above general content that can be enjoyed by all; obviously that is ridiculous. But I am pointing out that apparently Arena Net has placed higher priority on cosmetic additions than “quality of life” improvements and new features; the exact opposite of what Collin suggested.

You may not know this, but the guys working on cosmetic additions are not the same guys who make class fixes or “quality of life” improvements.

Yes, yes; I know there is a difference between an art team and an engineering team. That said they are connected. For example who do you think had to add those new drops to loot tables, or scripted a bunch of new achievements in order to get a backpack that serves only to invite “I’ve seen enough hentai…” jokes? And do you think recent quality team meetings were focused on checking to see if ranger pets weren’t still morons, or that engineers weren’t universally underpowered, or were they focused on approving the blink animation on the “totally not ripping off Soul Calibur” themed weapons?

I don’t know…they’ve made some decent improvements on ranger pets recently, so yeah, I think they must have talked about it at some point.

And this is precisely why I told the OP that devs shouldn’t answer posts like this. It’s nothing but trouble. For every person mollified, someone is going to try to rake up dirt…even if there’s nothing in it.

If I were Anet i’d be mad careful about posting anything.

Tolmos.8395:

This sentence makes a massive assumption- that the skilled player in crap gear will have a higher skill level than the one who isn’t in crap gear. But what if they are equivalent? What if the ascended player is slightly better? Suddenly, in both situations, the non-ascended player is in a massive disadvantage.

Equivalent skill? I just don’t understand this point of view.

Two people meet 1v1. Nevermind that the game isn’t balanced around 1v1 but let’s say this happens, cause it does.

Now, the first thing is those two people are likely going to be different professions. Even if they’re the same profession it’s unlikely they’re going to have the same build. I know from experience that if you have a build that’s designed to take down certain other builds, you’re going to win an engagement because skill choice and trait choices do matter. If you have a guy who attacks mega fast and you can repeatly stack confusion on him, he’s gonna hurt. If he has enough condition removal it’s a battle between what you have stacked up and what he has stacked up…not necessarily about who has more skill. There’s a certain random element.

Even if two of the same profession meet, the odds are their builds will be different, and they’ll be specced differently.

So in order for skill to come into play a whole lot of other factors have to come into play. And even then, what does equally skilled even mean. I’m very skilled at certain things and not skilled at others. One guy might have the best timing in the world, one guy might have the ability to anticipate better. Equally skilled doesn’t really exist. Not in real life in boxing or tennis or anything else.

This is an illusion born of people who want to know that if they fail, they fail because they weren’t good enough, not due to stats. But stats are pretty much the least of your problems, unless the difference is stats is severe.

killcannon.2576:

darkace.8925:

killcannon.2576:

Then the interlude blew chunks. Any way you want to slice it, call it interlude, call it end, call it epilogue, call it lemon sherbert, it left a lot to be desired.

But feel free to keep telling Anet it was great, maybe we can get more compelling parts to the living story just like it in this episode.

It didn’t say it was great. I didn’t say it was bad. It was what it was.

I don’t know exactly what you wanted for an interlude that closes one chapter of a story before another is opened? Did you want Blue Angels to fly overhead, doing aerial-acrobatics to the guitar riffs from Crazy Train? Did you want a lazy and fireworks show while Santa passed by on his float throwing out precursors and candy? Did you want Zhaitan to rise from the dead and attack Lion’s Arch so the heroes of Tyria could rally once more to overthrow evil?

You got a climax with the dungeon. You got an ending to the story with the cut scenes in Hoelbrak and the Black Citadel. What more was needed? A better question is in what way did the bonfire take away from the aforementioned climax and resolution?

I don’t consider it an interlude? or an epilogue, or lemon sherbert, I considered it the end of the F&F chapter of the Living Story.

You may have got the ending with the two sentences Roxx and little boy lost said to you, but I expected more, and I expected it at the bonfire. If you felt happy with it, that’s great.
I’m not trying to change your mind, and I’m just stating mine. Let’s leave it at that shall we?

I can’t believe I agree with you. I’m going to go check my temperature. lol

Neural.1824:

Vayne.8563:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

I’m surprised rift didn’t make the list. I’ve never played it, but i’ve heard its a pretty good game and its going f2p soon.

Not suprised at all that WoW wasn’t on there. It is literally hemorrhaging subs. It’s lost over a million since the expansion came out, and that’s when it was already down a couple million. It may be the greatest MMO of all time, but it isn’t great as a 2013 MMO.

If you read the comments on the thread, someone asked about it and there was a response. Apparently the Storm Legion upgrade wasn’t all that well received and Rift is pretty much a dead zone right now. That’s why they’re going F2P.

Rift has been a favorite of mine for a long time. GW2 was a game to play while taking a break.
That being said, my impression of Rift from this past week of playing again, is quite different from the “dead zone” you described. The Guardian side areas I was in (Sanctum, Silverwood, Gloamwood, Scarwood reach, etc.) were all much the same as they were from back in the first few months of launch. Lots of people in Sanctum/Silverwood, fewer in Gloamwood, and fewer again in Scarwood. But there were people there.
I compare Scarwood Reach (Three Springs server) in Rift to Timberline Falls (Yak’s Bend) in GW2 and I see GW2 as the game that has fewer players. I’ve roamed for an hour or so in Timberline Falls and seen no-one. Yet in Scarwood, I’ve never really had a problem getting help removing invaders (especially near Kain’s command post).

Perhaps it is an issue of server population, but, again, I have to disagree that Rift is a dead zone (at least on the Guardian side. Perhaps the Defiant side is suffering?)

I had to laugh at your comment earlier about Perfect World. I’ve played a character up to 62 in that game, and it is my personal opinion that GW2 beats them out for cash shop herding. The most money I spent in that game was on materials for crafting items, and it’s not that those materials weren’t available due to stupid RNG and DR mechanics, it was just that I didn’t care to spend hours at a spawn spot trying to beat bots to materials. In GW2 your options are: Grind CoF Path 1 for gold to buy mats, or pay cash to buy mats. Otherwise you are stuck running all over the map to avoid DR only to get about 2 needed drops every half hour, and nodes don’t respawn for a long time.

Just my opinion based on my experience.

Anyone who wants to farm specific materials is going about it the wrong way. Play the game, make money playing the game, buy what you need. It’s pretty simple.

I don’t farm CoF path 1 (though I’ve run it a few times). I do fractals. I do other dungeons. I do WvW. I do dynamic events. I run around doing dragons sometimes, or just help guildies.

And I make money. More slowly than a farmer, because I’m not personally in a rush….but I get what I need.

The problem is, everyone wants everything fast, and they’re convinced farming is the way to get it. Not in this game.

Okay so what about people like me who love the game, but live in Australia. The latency issue pretty much guarantees I’ll never win a game. It’s impossible to keep away from people if you can’t actually see where they are.

Basically most people who live outside the US but not in Europe is screwed out of that achievement/title.

I have all the other titles, but not that one.

I agree. I think all jumping puzzles should be voluntary. I don’t like having points of interest or skill points or vistas on top of jumping puzzles (like Tribulation Rift Scaffolding).

Mind you, I personally love them. I just don’t think Anet should hide world completion beyond them.

I felt relatively let down by it, and you know, I’m a fan boy. Ask anyone. lol

AlietteFaye.7316:

Vayne.8563:

Because you say so?

Vayne.8563:

I don’t think a single person should be a guild.

Oh, I get it! He was wrong because he thought so, but you’re in the right.

If you can’t see why a single person shouldn’t have a guild on his own, I’m not sure what to say. Anet discourages single person guilds in numerous ways, so Anet doesn’t like it either. It’s why a single person doing an event gets 2 influence, but 2 people in the same guild working on an event get 20.

1 person does not a guild make. You can argue that if you like…but I’m not sure on what basis.

Leo Paul.1659:

@Vayne: It’s not that I don’t appreciate what it’s doing for the community because I do see how many people enjoy MOST of the new content. I just think there should be more focus on fixing and pushing forward what’s already there rather than introducing temporary activities and mini-games that has very little pertinence to the main plot [particularly, the lack of competitive content that ties in with pve and lore a bit more cohesively (whether via factions or something) is something that I hope gets addressed soon.] The initial buzz it generates ultimately isn’t enough to compensate for what is lacking in the game in a bigger picture for me. For example, I have lost interest in the living story in general, and only do the achievements arbitrarily for the sake of being rewarded, paying no attention to what it’s about.

You are entirely correct though that this particular opinion of mine is probably not the most popular, and that it (monthly temporary contents and updates) may be what the game needs in order to secure its longevity.

I believe Anet is working on other things as well, but they take longer to implement. They may even be saving that stuff for the paid update when it comes. In the mean time, they still need to keep people in game.

As for the stuff on the island, it’s not exactly “brilliant” story stuff, but it is a story and I’m interested to see where it goes. The crab toss game is some of the most fun I’ve had in Guild Wars 2. I’ll never win it, because the latency I have in Australia makes that almost impossible, but I’ve gotten the other three achievements from it and I still play it just for fun. I mean I’m having a blast. Whoever thought to put a fishing rod in there that you can use to snatch the crab remotely out of someone else’s hands is a genius. I like it a lot better than keg brawl, which I also enjoy because I prefer the every man for himself, rather than random teaming thing.

And when the karka start rolling around and flatting everyone going after a crab…priceless. It’s really an ingenious game.

Blaeys.3102:

I keep seeing this argument about “anti-small guilds” and my experience in game simply doesn’t support the negativity.

I’m the guild leader of a smaller guild on the Henge of Denravi server. Prior to the release of missions, the guild had an average of 6-12 players on each night. We really wanted to do guild missions but we didn’t want to lose our identity by mass recruiting random players.

Instead of complaining, we pooled our resources and did what we had to do to unlock guild bounties as fast as possible. We did it without the gem store and without sacrificing other aspects of the game. Once we had bounties unlocked, we made an open invitation to all of the small and WvW guilds on the server – join CH at the “friends” rank and you only need to rep with us once a week for missions (and get your guild commendations in the process ). There were alot of guilds that were either small like us or wanted to focus their guild resources on other things (most notably, WvW). This worked perfectly for them – and for us.

We are currently two weeks away from unlocking guild puzzles – and our average number of active players is much higher than it was before guild missions came out (in addition to all the new “friends” we now play alongside). More importantly, we are having a blast with the guild mission content.

So, even small guilds can participate very actively in guild missions. It just takes being open to working with the system instead of just complaining about it.

As someone leading a small guild, I can say without a doubt that guild missions are the single best addition to the game since launch. They were just what we needed to get some of the less active players interested in the guild again.

Thank you so much for posting this. We have a medium sized guild and sometimes guild missions can be challenging. We’re haven’t unlocked guild puzzles yet, we’re probably slightly behind you.

But it’s good to see someone from a smaller guild enjoying the content.

Tachenon.5270:

Vayne.8563:

Tachenon.5270:

Vayne.8563:

killcannon.2576:

Vayne.8563:

Except with the exception of WvW, the people in big guilds had no content at all. None. The party size is five. You can’t run around with forty people doing most events, because most events don’t scale that high.

These guild quests were added because big guilds were left out of everything else. It’s so easy to join a guild that allows people in for public guild missions and still be in your own guild 99% of the time.

Hell my guild will allow people to run with us, without otherwise contributing to the guild at all.

It’s easy enough to do. People who choose not to…well that’s their own look out.

But is there a significant reason to only restrict this due to guild size? That is my only concern. I know the general reaction to stating anything about reward, but even if smaller guilds do run it with someone else, they don’t receive the same kind of payoff.

If it was open and fairly accessible to all guilds, who would that leave out exactly? Does it simply boil down to a prestige thing?

I recognize that managing a large guild can be a chore and a challenge in it’s own right, and that there should be some form of prestige that goes along with that ideal. I’m just not sure that gating content should be the answer.

Actually there sort of is a reason.

If you make these things hard enough that you need tons of people doing it, then you need tons of people to do it. If any guild no matter what size can do it, then it’s not content for larger guilds.

Running a tier 3 bounty would be very very hard (probably impossible) for a guild my size. We usually have between 15 and 25 people doing guild missions at a time, and we’re not big enough to do the higher level stuff. But I don’t feel left out because those guilds need content too.

And because there are several guilds that do allow people to join them publicly.

I’m not sure if you can get rewards cross servers or not, but it’s worth checking in to. If people want to join my guild missions, no questions asked, we can invite you for the mission and you can leave right after. There, problem solved.

I’m on Tarnished Coast.

There’s no good reason for what Anet did with guild missions.

They should have made it so that all ‘guild’ content was available to all guilds, regardless of guild size. Members of smaller guilds should never be expected to represent some other guild just to experience the so-called ‘guild’ content and the reward/benefit for being in a large guild should have been the option/ability to run the content as a large guild. Nothing more.

Because you say so? What about a guild of one, then. Should they be able to complete guild missions?

Because I say so? No, because it would have been the right and fair thing to do.

And as for a guild of one, why not? Anet did away with the classic MMO trinity by making every profession self-supportive, thereby negating the need for the classic trinity roles in group situations. Why stop there?

I don’t think a single person should be a guild. It defeats the entire purpose of having a guild. By taking away reasons to guild, what you do is weaken the guild system. Without giving guilds something to build on or work towards, you weaken it.

Anet didn’t have anything for larger guilds in PVe….maybe the temples in Orr. I don’t know how many times you can keep running those. Dragon events? Not exciting.

In theory they could have made this content scale down but how much longer would it have taken and how much more work would be needed to fix the bugs from doing that. That sort tuning takes a lot of work. As it is, the guild missions, of which there are many, need work.

By allowing one person to have the same rewards as a larger guild, you’re essentially making them useless. It’s actually much harder to run a larger guild than a smaller one. Are you saying they’re entitled to nothing of their own?

Sephyros.9652:

I love the logic of GW2 players.

Paying for a sub on any other MMO is “being ripped off”.
Buying gems on the cash shop is “supporting the game you love”.

Stay classy.

Paying for a sub is not a choice. I don’t have to pay money to the cash shop to play this game. If a dungeon pops up at the end of the month, I’m not paying for that. The dungeon last month was awesome. I didn’t spend a dime last month.

I don’t like RNG and I won’t support it, so I won’t buy consortium chests.

There’s a difference between having a choice and not having a choice.

With a sub, you pay whether the game delivers or not.

I bought a six month subscription to Rift, and I played it for half that time, because the game didn’t deliver. Did I get my money’s worth from Rift? Probably. But I still wish I hadn’t subscribed, because I didn’t like the changes in the game (much as some people don’t like the changes to Guild Wars 2).

But in Guild Wars 2, you’re not paying for those changes unless you CHOOSE to use the cash shop. I can’t imagine why anyone can’t see that difference.

Nick.6972:

Well, but isn’t all zones in GW2 supposed to be an “End Game”?
The “End Game Starts From Level 1” bs.

I’m not sure how it’s more possible to miss a point than this. Did you think that meant everything in the starter zone would be so hard that only experts could complete it? What about new players. This is a completely disingenous interpretation of something that at least most people seemed to understand.

Anet was talking about how most games, like WoW, you have to rush through all the content to fight big, exciting bosses. That’s it.

Do you NOT see tons of people waiting for the Shadow Behemoth? Why do you think a creature like the Shadow Behemoth was included in a starter zone? It was done because what you’re doing at end game is much the same as what you’re doing during the game in general.

This is in contrast to other games. I can’t even count in interviews in which Colin said that in most games,. when you get to level cap the game changes. In this game, not so much. You can do all the same stuff. That’s ALL it meant.

If you don’t like that stuff, find a game you do like, but don’t try to twist what was said into what you want it to mean. I’m sure this was explained very clearly in more place than one.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

I’m surprised rift didn’t make the list. I’ve never played it, but i’ve heard its a pretty good game and its going f2p soon.

Not suprised at all that WoW wasn’t on there. It is literally hemorrhaging subs. It’s lost over a million since the expansion came out, and that’s when it was already down a couple million. It may be the greatest MMO of all time, but it isn’t great as a 2013 MMO.

If you read the comments on the thread, someone asked about it and there was a response. Apparently the Storm Legion upgrade wasn’t all that well received and Rift is pretty much a dead zone right now. That’s why they’re going F2P.

Nick.6972:

GW1 monsters had better AI, plus they could heal and res each other.
Remember Aataxes which could 2-3 hit kill you, now compare them to GW2’s counterpart.

Yes, but you can’t compare a 15th level aatxe in a starting area, to a end game aataxe in the Underworld. Well you can, obviously, but it doesn’t make sense to.

It’s like in Guild Wars 1 the lower level versions of wind riders and higher level ones. The ones in hard mode, in groups, could be quite annoying…the low level ones..not so much.

Leo Paul.1659:

Vayne.8563:

Leo Paul.1659:

Vayne.8563:

Leo Paul.1659:

Vayne.8563:

Leo Paul.1659:

GW1 wasn’t as boring as GW2 in it’s first year of release.

Complete opinion. Many people found it more boring…many people find it less. Boring is a matter of personal taste, not a matter of fact.

Of course it’s an opinion. Never stated it to be otherwise. GW1’s story mode was handled a lot better than GW2’s, which is really what I’m after. GW2’s feel lacking – not incomplete in terms of tackled subjects or its length, just generally lacking that it failed to draw me in emotionally. With GW1’s I found myself checking the forums to know more about the plot, theories, etc.

Anyway, GW1 didn’t have to inject so much new content in order to preserve interest in the game. I was content with what we had then until factions was released.

Guild Wars 1 was released 8 years ago, an eternity in gaming terms. It doesn’t MATTER what was successful in Guild Wars 1. If it was released today, it wouldn’t have the same impact it had then. There wasn’t nearly the competition.

It wasn’t as big a business back then, the investment wasn’t as high, the risk wasn’t as high.

There’s no way anyone can possibly compare the two without taking these factors into account.

In relation to my point of what I liked about GW1 over GW2, storytelling isn’t as generational as gameplay in MMO is. What is engrossing is engrossing, regardless if it was released a century ago. As far as the modality goes of releasing temporary content monthly and whether it spells success or not, it boils down to opinion as much as my original statement does.

My paragraph was in response to the last paragraph you wrote, not the first part. Sorry for the confusion. You specifically stated that Guild Wars 1 didn’t need the infusion of content that Guild Wars 2 has, and I pointed out, rightly, that it’s a completely different situation today.

Sorry for the confusion.

I see, thanks for the clarification. I still don’t really think it’s imperative to introduce new (and temporary) content every month in order to remain relevant in the MMO scene. Somehow, I feel like it’s a band-aid approach to retain their players.

Most people think most players are like them. This is invariably untrue. There are huge demographics of players different from me, for example. And I agree with you 100%. For me, introducing new content all the time isn’t necessary. The problem is, many if not most players today aren’t like me.

The younger generation today grew up with the internet. They have entertainment options at their fingertips. When I grew up, if you were watching a TV series, and you saw an episode, you had to wait till next week to see the next one. There was no such thing as a VCR. We had to wait and make do. Which meant often we ended up spending time thinking about the program. Drawing conclusions. Looking deep. At least I did.

I watch my sons watch entire TV series at a time, sometimes in one sitting. Episode after episode. The current generation is spoonfed entertainment and as soon as they blow through everything (often by following a walk-through on Dulfy) they’re bored, because they’ve done all the content. I can’t play games that way but you might be surprised at how many do.

Those people represent a huge demograph. It takes them an hour or two to run through new content, and they’re bored again. But if Anet comes up with new content next month, those people come back to the game. They get those achievements. They add to the population.

Each time someone comes into the game, there’s a chance they’ll make friends, join a guild, stay a bit, instead of running off. Maybe they’ll do something they enjoyed a few months back ,because it’s new again. But they can’t do it if they don’t come back.

Have you seen the different in server populations before and after an update. I’d say it’s huge.

Leo Paul.1659:

Vayne.8563:

Leo Paul.1659:

Vayne.8563:

Leo Paul.1659:

GW1 wasn’t as boring as GW2 in it’s first year of release.

Complete opinion. Many people found it more boring…many people find it less. Boring is a matter of personal taste, not a matter of fact.

Of course it’s an opinion. Never stated it to be otherwise. GW1’s story mode was handled a lot better than GW2’s, which is really what I’m after. GW2’s feel lacking – not incomplete in terms of tackled subjects or its length, just generally lacking that it failed to draw me in emotionally. With GW1’s I found myself checking the forums to know more about the plot, theories, etc.

Anyway, GW1 didn’t have to inject so much new content in order to preserve interest in the game. I was content with what we had then until factions was released.

Guild Wars 1 was released 8 years ago, an eternity in gaming terms. It doesn’t MATTER what was successful in Guild Wars 1. If it was released today, it wouldn’t have the same impact it had then. There wasn’t nearly the competition.

It wasn’t as big a business back then, the investment wasn’t as high, the risk wasn’t as high.

There’s no way anyone can possibly compare the two without taking these factors into account.

In relation to my point of what I liked about GW1 over GW2, storytelling isn’t as generational as gameplay in MMO is. What is engrossing is engrossing, regardless if it was released a century ago. As far as the modality goes of releasing temporary content monthly and whether it spells success or not, it boils down to opinion as much as my original statement does.

My paragraph was in response to the last paragraph you wrote, not the first part. Sorry for the confusion. You specifically stated that Guild Wars 1 didn’t need the infusion of content that Guild Wars 2 has, and I pointed out, rightly, that it’s a completely different situation today.

Sorry for the confusion.

Shadow Blade.1324:

Parlourbeatflex.5970:

Rng chests and limited time item deals.

Cheap tactics can net you alot of cash.

Of course, it isnt as cheap as pay2win, so big upps to anet for staying away from that minefield for now.

what you talking about, the game has been pay to win since day one, you can buy legendary weapons which are always BIS

buying top end gear for cash is essentially the definition of pay to win

Except that you can’t say it’s pay to win, because exotic weapons are easy to get. That’s the point. Hundreds or thousands of dollars to a buy a BIS weapon that you can get easily in game is NOT P2W.

Shadow Blade.1324:

In the six-plus months since its launch, Guild Wars 2 has added more content and features than any other MMO on this List has in the same amount of time. And there are no signs of the pace slowing down… in fact, they only seems to be speeding up their output.

no other mmo has then turned around and promptly removed so much content either so yeah if that’s his justification its a poor one also speed != quality

this isn’t so much a list of the best mmos as it is the most recent…

This is the best MMO I’ve ever played, thus it’s the best MMO to me. Saying it’s not the best is just an opinion.

There has yet to be an MMO I’m completely satisfied with, including Guild Wars 2. But Guild Wars 2 comes closer to any other MMO I’ve played and I’ve played lots of them.

Tachenon.5270:

Vayne.8563:

killcannon.2576:

Vayne.8563:

Except with the exception of WvW, the people in big guilds had no content at all. None. The party size is five. You can’t run around with forty people doing most events, because most events don’t scale that high.

These guild quests were added because big guilds were left out of everything else. It’s so easy to join a guild that allows people in for public guild missions and still be in your own guild 99% of the time.

Hell my guild will allow people to run with us, without otherwise contributing to the guild at all.

It’s easy enough to do. People who choose not to…well that’s their own look out.

But is there a significant reason to only restrict this due to guild size? That is my only concern. I know the general reaction to stating anything about reward, but even if smaller guilds do run it with someone else, they don’t receive the same kind of payoff.

If it was open and fairly accessible to all guilds, who would that leave out exactly? Does it simply boil down to a prestige thing?

I recognize that managing a large guild can be a chore and a challenge in it’s own right, and that there should be some form of prestige that goes along with that ideal. I’m just not sure that gating content should be the answer.

Actually there sort of is a reason.

If you make these things hard enough that you need tons of people doing it, then you need tons of people to do it. If any guild no matter what size can do it, then it’s not content for larger guilds.

Running a tier 3 bounty would be very very hard (probably impossible) for a guild my size. We usually have between 15 and 25 people doing guild missions at a time, and we’re not big enough to do the higher level stuff. But I don’t feel left out because those guilds need content too.

And because there are several guilds that do allow people to join them publicly.

I’m not sure if you can get rewards cross servers or not, but it’s worth checking in to. If people want to join my guild missions, no questions asked, we can invite you for the mission and you can leave right after. There, problem solved.

I’m on Tarnished Coast.

There’s no good reason for what Anet did with guild missions.

They should have made it so that all ‘guild’ content was available to all guilds, regardless of guild size. Members of smaller guilds should never be expected to represent some other guild just to experience the so-called ‘guild’ content and the reward/benefit for being in a large guild should have been the option/ability to run the content as a large guild. Nothing more.

Because you say so? What about a guild of one, then. Should they be able to complete guild missions?

MattMesa.8401:

I just personally don’t feel anything for the “story” anet is telling me. It could be me. I watched every scene and read all the dialogue leveling my three 80’s and I just never felt that connected to any of it. I’m not a big “mmo story” person though; I prefer MMO’s for the game itself so it may just be lost on me.

I don’t think so. A lot of people had trouble connecting with it. It’s a very different type of story than that found in single player games.

Also, the story was greatly variable, depending on your choices. Some of the charr stories, for example, are better to me than most of the human stories. I like the norn stories too. But the human stories not so much.

Leo Paul.1659:

Vayne.8563:

Leo Paul.1659:

GW1 wasn’t as boring as GW2 in it’s first year of release.

Complete opinion. Many people found it more boring…many people find it less. Boring is a matter of personal taste, not a matter of fact.

Of course it’s an opinion. Never stated it to be otherwise. GW1’s story mode was handled a lot better than GW2’s, which is really what I’m after. GW2’s feel lacking – not incomplete in terms of tackled subjects or its length, just generally lacking that it failed to draw me in emotionally. With GW1’s I found myself checking the forums to know more about the plot, theories, etc.

Anyway, GW1 didn’t have to inject so much new content in order to preserve interest in the game. I was content with what we had then until factions was released.

Guild Wars 1 was released 8 years ago, an eternity in gaming terms. It doesn’t MATTER what was successful in Guild Wars 1. If it was released today, it wouldn’t have the same impact it had then. There wasn’t nearly the competition.

It wasn’t as big a business back then, the investment wasn’t as high, the risk wasn’t as high.

There’s no way anyone can possibly compare the two without taking these factors into account.

Peetee.9406:

We have all guild missions unlocked and our usual force for doing them is 7-8 members. You can easily do the Tier 1 missions with 6 people. Now obtaining the influence is a whole different matter but hey, thats why they have a cash shop.

Sure tier one. But some of the harder puzzles and stuff that require 15 completions aren’t that easy. Even some of the rushes we’ve had problems with.

PrimeEvil.2067:

Ok thank you Vayne, but it would be cool if ArenaNet could somehow create some sort of “thing” where fresh players could enjoy the past Events or major events…i now realise that Flame and Frost is gone for me =(

I think the point of this whole exercise is not the divide the playerbase too much. Guild Wars 2 doesn’t have 8 million players like WoW does. And even on WOW people complain about being unable to find groups for old content.

Even in Guild Wars 2 now, there are story mode dungeons that are hard to find groups for. If you’re not running one of the popular dungeons you’re going to get frustrated. By doing stuff this way, they keep people occupied, and keep them together.

I agree it would be nice to have the ability to do old stuff, but they’d probably have to introduce heroes like they had in Guild Wars 1 for that to happen. And that comes with it’s own set of problems.

Aigleborgne.2981:

maddoctor.2738:

There was absolutely no mob you couldn’t take 1vs1 if you were a competent player, much like in GW2, the big difference is that mobs in GW1 were always in groups, and those ORGANISED groups, with healers, aoe dps, buffers, interrupters were the hardest fights, harder than the dungeon bosses. That didn’t make those mobs any harder individually

If you exclude bosses, this is true, but it requires some preparation to fight some monsters.
For example, let’s try to kill a desert crystal hydra alone. If you can’t interrupt meteor, fireball, or inferno, you were just dead.

You have to know monsters to understand how to defeat them, and for many encounters, you have to change some skills because if you couldn’t prevent their heal or big spells, your group could be killed.

Now, compare with GW2, I never need to consider my utilities or weapon to fight monters because they are all dumb without any consequent challenge. Only ettins and their knockdown gave me some challenge early on.
In GW1, I could dress a huge list of challenging monsters (solo or in group): jade knight, hydra, wind rider, moss scarab and earth elementals in crystal desert, […]

Finally, compare GW1 monster groups with GW2 and it is exponential.

600 monks. Perman sins. Ursan teams. It’s all nice in theory but there are some specs that worked with everything.

Leo Paul.1659:

GW1 wasn’t as boring as GW2 in it’s first year of release.

Complete opinion. Many people found it more boring…many people find it less. Boring is a matter of personal taste, not a matter of fact.

No, you can’t play those events at all anymore. You can only play the current ones. It’s a living story in a living world, so once events pass, they pass for good. Currently you can go to Southsun (the island scales you up to level 80 health and armor), and participate in the current story.

But the main lore/story quest in Guild Wars 2 isn’t the living story anyway, its’ your personal story.

Paulytnz.7619:

Vayne.8563:

Paulytnz.7619:

I remember when facing minotaurs in GW1 you were at risk of losing your life if hit with too many groups at once. Here they are like little babies just begging to be played with and hugged. Seriously they made them SO much weaker….

Sure because you don’t have eight guys with you all the time. And later in Guild Wars 1’s life span, even hard mode was ridiculously easy. My heroes were specced out and I could literally go afk and come back to a field of dead bodies. I didn’t have to play at all, my heroes were so good.

I had a full team of Heroes too. The point I’m making is that even just 1 on 1 they were a challenge unlike here. Very often I would face one alone or see one of my Heroes facing one alone and not doing too well. Here, I can go vs 3-4 without breaking a sweat.

Depend on your profession, your build and where you are. There are times when, on almost any profession, I can be outdone by a sudden event spawning, or running into a couple of vets and a few regulars.

I played both Guild Wars 1 and Guild Wars 2, and in my opinion, combat in Guild Wars 2 is harder. It requires more effort and concentration on my part. Guild Wars 1 required nothing of the sort, because I didn’t have to move around while fighting.

killcannon.2576:

Vayne.8563:

Except with the exception of WvW, the people in big guilds had no content at all. None. The party size is five. You can’t run around with forty people doing most events, because most events don’t scale that high.

These guild quests were added because big guilds were left out of everything else. It’s so easy to join a guild that allows people in for public guild missions and still be in your own guild 99% of the time.

Hell my guild will allow people to run with us, without otherwise contributing to the guild at all.

It’s easy enough to do. People who choose not to…well that’s their own look out.

But is there a significant reason to only restrict this due to guild size? That is my only concern. I know the general reaction to stating anything about reward, but even if smaller guilds do run it with someone else, they don’t receive the same kind of payoff.

If it was open and fairly accessible to all guilds, who would that leave out exactly? Does it simply boil down to a prestige thing?

I recognize that managing a large guild can be a chore and a challenge in it’s own right, and that there should be some form of prestige that goes along with that ideal. I’m just not sure that gating content should be the answer.

Actually there sort of is a reason.

If you make these things hard enough that you need tons of people doing it, then you need tons of people to do it. If any guild no matter what size can do it, then it’s not content for larger guilds.

Running a tier 3 bounty would be very very hard (probably impossible) for a guild my size. We usually have between 15 and 25 people doing guild missions at a time, and we’re not big enough to do the higher level stuff. But I don’t feel left out because those guilds need content too.

And because there are several guilds that do allow people to join them publicly.

I’m not sure if you can get rewards cross servers or not, but it’s worth checking in to. If people want to join my guild missions, no questions asked, we can invite you for the mission and you can leave right after. There, problem solved.

I’m on Tarnished Coast.

Paulytnz.7619:

I remember when facing minotaurs in GW1 you were at risk of losing your life if hit with too many groups at once. Here they are like little babies just begging to be played with and hugged. Seriously they made them SO much weaker….

Sure because you don’t have eight guys with you all the time. And later in Guild Wars 1’s life span, even hard mode was ridiculously easy. My heroes were specced out and I could literally go afk and come back to a field of dead bodies. I didn’t have to play at all, my heroes were so good.