Guild Wars 2

Astralporing.1957:

Just wait for the next expansion. When you’ll buy it, you will get HoT at no additional charge.

I’m not sure I’d assume that’s the case.

Yes you’re missing something. You paid for a full version of Guild Wars 2. You can talk in map chat. You can buy and sell everything on the trading post. You have five character slots, not two. You can convert gems to gold. You don’t have the restrictions of a free to play character.

On the other hand, expansions are part and parcel of every MMO. WoW players for example pay for expansions AND play $15 a month.

I’m not sure what MMO’s you’ve played before, but they’re either pay to win, they lock professions and races and content behind micro-transaction pay walls, or they charge for expansions.

TheBlackLeech.9360:

Miellyn.6847:

The effort for new legendary weapons is much higher than just weapon skins or gliders.

I refuse to believe that anyone actually believes this statement.

Sure a legendary does indeed require more effort than a gemstore skin to create…. there is no disputing that. …but saying the effort is much higher is an awfully generous statement.

Look at the rate at which gemstore weapon/glider skins are released… the sheer amount of them…. and then tell me honestly that it would take that much more effort to add footprints.

The only thing I can agree with as far as effort required is concerned is the precursor collection. …but it can’t be that hard to copy and paste one of the other precursor collection structures, and alter the requirements/quests.

Probably a one-man job if he gives it his full attention for a day…. but lets be generous and give him a week.

The gem store skins are made by artists and pretty much just artists. The legendary weapons need a team of people. A single person can make the skins relatively quickly. Not the same for designing a legendary journey and testing it.

It doesn’t matter if you believe it or not, but it’s true. Black lion skins take artist time, not developer time.

Xillllix.3485:

They’re still making money from it with the F2P model, but it’s a different audience.

But most of the core players since the release like me are playing other games and waiting to see if Anet brings more endgame content to this game before coming back.

The fact that I didn’t play this game since last December but still come here to see whats happening speaks a bit about how much the core players feel they have invested in it.

A GvG system, new dungeons, difficulty settings and an unnerf to rewards/drops would save this game in my opinion, but it just feels like Anet is taking forever just to get anything done. They’re probably focused on developing their next game and are just trying to milk GW2 as much as possible.

The sad truth is that the game was better 2 years ago than it is now. The new trait system completely ruined the class balance and a lack of vision ruined the game in general.

Unnerf to rewards and drops? I don’t know what game you’re playing, but this game has never been more profitable, particularly if you own HoT. The game pretty much throws loot at you.

There are many complaints about the game, some legit, some not so much, but the loot situation is pretty solid right now.

Naix.8156:

Xbon.9086:

youtube videos != popularity, there’s plenty of people, maps are still full, world boss maps are still as lively as ever…

All situations where the population is masked by megaservers, but tell us more plz.

Okay, Anet made more than 8 million dollars a month for the quarter, according to the quarterly report. A fact not masked by the megaserver.

Drakz.7051:

I wonder how long it will take them to take this down xD Or has it gotten to a point where as long as their game is getting a new player they won’t care xD

I’m not sure why people think negative posts are taken down when there are quite a few of them on the first page that are quite old.

I wonder how long it’ll take people to stop spreading misinformation and conspiracy theories on the forum.

At any rate, the OP’s experience is probably not typical since many have managed to buy HoT without a problem.

Dragonfeu.4356:

Vayne.8563:

People taking a break till new content comes out is not dying. You’ll see more videos when the new raid wing hits, for example, which should be very soon. WvW is busier than it was six months ago. PvP is relatively busy for the season.

But yeah, this is the traffic pattern we’ve seen since launch. Die hard players stay and play all the time, the rest of the players come back when there’s new content.

Also for a lot of stuff, videos really don’t tell the whole story. For example people did come back to get their bandit kills and do the new achievements, but who’s going to make a video of that?

How’s WvW? Is it basically the same old Alpine Borderlands or did they change stuff up ( merge the desert borderlands mechanics or something )

WvW is more populated now, due to a revamp of the reward structure, reward tracks and changes to the system more generally. It’s not as populated as it was in the early months of the game, but it’s far more populated than it was a year ago, or at least it seems that way to me.

And even less busy servers can play now since they’ve been linked to busier servers. It’s worth taking a look.

echo.2053:

They aren’t linking servers or considering to merge the bottom half of of na servers because of excess number of players.

But this situation with WvW has been going on for years. Not months, years. Almost since launch. Server transfers were free and launch and everyone moved to the top tiers, even back then. So this isn’t some new problem where the population suddenly dropped. This is addressing an existing problem that has existed pretty much for the entire life of the game.

People taking a break till new content comes out is not dying. You’ll see more videos when the new raid wing hits, for example, which should be very soon. WvW is busier than it was six months ago. PvP is relatively busy for the season.

But yeah, this is the traffic pattern we’ve seen since launch. Die hard players stay and play all the time, the rest of the players come back when there’s new content.

Also for a lot of stuff, videos really don’t tell the whole story. For example people did come back to get their bandit kills and do the new achievements, but who’s going to make a video of that?

Or you could buy it from dlgamer.com which is an authorized dealer for cheaper.

Moyayuki.3619:

General Health.9678:

Moyayuki.3619:

But watching a video or reading a guide won’t stop HoT from being what it is.

Obviously. It will help you get where you need to go however. Seeing a puny Asura mesmer bobbing round the whole map getting map complete should put things into perspective.

Moyayuki.3619:

For some people, it will still be obnoxious and difficult.

Who are these people? Did they look at the guides I keep banging on about? Why are you talking for other people you don’t know? You can say “it is too hard” about anything, I can’t cook French food, it’s obnoxious and difficult.

Moyayuki.3619:

Those of us who may not be super-skilled or have the best toons still want to experience the expansion material and actually play through the story.

Fortunately you can as HoT isn’t that hard AND got a nerf in April. I’m not super-skilled. I run one of each profession, all elite, in full berserker gear. I’ve got all HoT maps complete on four of them and am working the rest through, a map at a time. I have a habit of standing still and pressing 1 to kill things. I often mis-time my rooted attack so I’m stood in the big orange circle when it hits. I often hit dodge AFTER I’ve been run over by something. I seem to be doing ok.

Moyayuki.3619:

But it’s hard when some of us hit very debilitating road blocks in overly convoluted maps with ridiculous enemies (mushrooms, anyone? WTH is wrong with those?!). I don’t like feeling that I must “learn to play” or else just drop the expansion entirely.

If you’ve already decided it’s too hard and you can’t play it then you have already made up your mind. I don’t know what you think is being expected of you when you are told to learn to play but I’ll make the same suggestion I keep making.. watch a video of the maps being completed and stop thinking they’re too hard for you. There are a few people on the forums (and more in-game) who will help you get round a map or to somewhere in a map. Can’t make you enjoy the game but the offer of help is there if you want it. And I’m just saying.. when I play in HoT maps I have the interactive mmorpg-life map open on my second screen with dulfy.net in a second tab on that screen. I always know where I’m going and how to get there.

I don’t know why you are continuously being harsh with me when it is obvious that you and I both have different play styles and view different things as “easy” or “hard”. Great, HoT is easy for you. Want a medal? Also, not everyone has two screens to conveniently play the game while also referring to Dulfy or YouTube or whatever else people use. So it’s therefore more inconvenient for me.

Also please notice that when I talked about "other people’, I said “SOME”, since I DO see comments and threads in these forums claiming that HoT is hard for them, so…therefore…logically…that means that there IS a population that DOES find HoT hard. I’m just not making a GENERALIZATION claiming that ALL people find it hard. I said SOME. I know not to make sweeping generalizations about an entire gaming community.

In VB, I managed to get through to the other end and entered Tangled Depths so that I had the WP for there. However, even getting that far was incredibly difficult for me. I struggle with even VB, so therefore it’s going to take a very long time for me to get the mushroom jumping mastery, which is needed to get to the MPs and HPs and so forth that are out of reach. So it’s a vicious cycle. Therefore, it’s more of the struggle of getting enough XP for the masteries that is making traversing the maps hard and frustrating, more than simply being lost.

Also, I apologize for snapping at you. I just get frustrated when people give off an attitude that because they had no issues with HoT, then it’s unacceptable for anyone else to have issues. This does not have to be personal, you know. You can have fun playing HoT as much as you want.

I’m not saying that it’s unacceptable for people to have issues with HoT, but I do wonder why people complain and then find an excuse not to do anything suggested by anyone to make it better.

I’ve offered, many times on these forums, to take people through HoT and teach them personally how to handle it. It won’t require a second monitor. No video watching is involved.

And do you know how many people have taken me up on my offer?

Hardly any. Only two of the people who complain here have attempted it and both play HoT regularly now with no problem.

battledrone.8315:

Sartharina.3542:

Moyayuki.3619:

EphemeralWallaby.7643:

Moyayuki.3619:

I’ve noticed that over the last few weeks, the term “face roll” has increased in usage. I wonder why? And what does it even mean? You aren’t rolling your face on enemies due to them being so easy. No idea where it came from (sorry for deviating from the discussion; I just don’t see a good enough reason to make a separate thread just for that question…)

It means there is no challenge or strategy required to play. You can “roll your face” over the keyboard, and any of the keys you randomly trigger will work just fine for accomplishing your goal in the game.

~EW

Okay, thanks for the explanation. Guess I am one of the few people who don’t complain about core zones being relatively “easy”. After all, you can essentially think of them as training/practicing grounds. The real challenges lie in things like dungeons, raids, WvW, PvP, later Living Story seasons, etc.

I find it depressing that people think that the open world should be free of challenge, and that challenge should only exist in the instanced content the game offers. The open world should have been GW2’s entire focus.

think of it as public roads vs race tracks
the ordinary taxpayers will only pay for the part, that they actually use
and, they wont let you drive full speed on the roads either
you have a higher skillset, and special needs?
you find a special place, and pay for it yourself
any mmo is like a public road, they need(want) as many payers, as they can get
the majority of mmo players just want to play click-the-mob in a beautiful world
this is , what made tyria so great, and is also what made hot fall so flat

Bad analogy if you ask me. The fact is there are people who don’t like instances and want more challenging open world content. I’m one of those people.

Locking all challenging content away in instances wouldn’t work for me and people like me.

People who like easy open world have a couple of dozen maps to play. People like me have six, if you count Dry Top and the Silverwastes.

This added to the game’s resume. It gave some of us who like it something to do that didn’t exist before.

Dante.1508:

Ryou.2398:

Trust me you don’t want easy progression you will get bored, it doesn’t matter how casual you are that isn’t rewarding in the end. Are you guys using the lfg tools? Are you asking map chat or guilds to help? People are really really helpful in the game give it a try.

I only got bored with Tyria when they added Ascended grind and Fractals grind to the game, before that i played for a year and a half happily daily, with no issues leveled 11 characters to 80, got every single crafting to 400 saved my gold and bought my exotics..

As soon as the whiners complained about end game being non existent GW2 was ruined for me.. So please don’t say i’d get bored, i was happy in core until i was gated and it became a grind..

Almost every MMO on the planet raises the level and introduces new tiers of gear. Ascended were meant to be a long term goal and fractals were introduced as an end game OPTION for people who wanted that play style. You can experience every fractal without grinding.

In fact, there are now 15 fractals and you can touch each one of them in easy mode without ever grinding up to the higher levels. So the grind in fractals in entirely optional.

As for ascended gear, I never ground for it. The most important ascended gear is the jewelry. You need 30 laurels for an amulet, which you can get just by waiting for them to come from log in rewards, you can get accessories (earrings) from 24 guild commendations from guild missions (or laurels if you don’t want to do guild missions but I can’t imagine why) and you can get rings very very easily from low level fractals.

The fact that it would take you a couple of months of not grinding, and that you can play all the content in the game without ascended stuff makes it just something that you get over time naturally. The only people who call jewelry a grind think they need it to play and what to have it now. Anyway gating is the exact opposite of grind.

Weapons, again, are easy to get if you take your time. They’re only hard to get if you choose to grind them. Ascended armor is almost completely unnecessary and if you absolutely have to have it, just let it come.

In those three years you’re talking about Anet has raised neither the level cap or added a new tier of gear.

AliamRationem.5172:

Dante.1508:

And as for HoT i know i hate it, having a chauffeur will not magically make me like it.

When I offered to help you in the jungle my intent was more to help you figure out how to appreciate it for what it is rather than what you wish it were.

You said that you have difficulty exploring the place and learning your way around because you can’t get away from all the monsters trying to kill you. So tell me why it wouldn’t help you to learn your way around if you had someone else there to keep those monsters off of you and show you the shortcuts you’re missing to get where you want to go?

Would that not likely result in a better understanding of the map layout and how to navigate it? And would that not be half the battle for you?

The other half is combat. As I told you before, my initial experience with the jungle was no different: It was confusing and I died constantly. It seems I wasn’t a special case. What makes you think you are? If I can learn to exploit the weaknesses of jungle enemies, I feel confident that you can, too.

Anyway, I’m not telling you that you should come back and play a game that you don’t enjoy. But I do think you’re wrong when you say that a little help from other players would be no use. You could be right, but I’ve helped enough players in the jungle to know that what at first seems impossible can become easy with some practice and a bit of help.

The offer is on the table, man. Any time you feel like coming back and giving it a go, just hit me up in game. We’ll see if we can figure this thing out.

I’ve lost count of the number of people who said they hate HoT, who I’ve played with who now enjoy HoT. Your hate of HoT could very well come from your lack of understanding and your lack of ability.

That you think hearts are some kind of great MMO content, frankly, blows my mind. They were and have always been filler.

As a person working on his sixth world complete, I don’t know how anyone thinks hearts are particularly fun.

Once you get up in the air, try landing on the branch.

It’s important to listen if you can. It’s not necessarily important to talk. Of course, you can get by without it, and people should be allowances if someone has an unfortunate circumstance.

Obviously guild groups are often more forgiving than pugs.

I don’t often agree with you Dreamy, but in this case I’ll make the exception. It’s too long a content drought for non-competitive PvE. Hopefully this will change soon. In fact, I expect it will. I think having to redo the HoT zones, which was a lot of work, put them way behind schedule. I’m sure they didn’t expect to have to do that.

Apparently you don’t frequent the forums much. There are plenty of people out there who think HoT is too hard to this day. Anet needs to create a balance between those who wanted skilled content and those you want a stroll in the park. No one is going to be 100% happy with every decision. Most of what you say ruins the jungle for you I don’t care about at all.

As for the size thing, that’s an Anet hall mark. In Guild Wars 1, when we fought the titans, it wasn’t the biggest titans that you had to watch out for it was the tiny sparks that did the most damage. Bigger doesn’t always mean more dangerous….a small squid can be more dangerous than a basking shark, for example.

Size doesn’t always have to matter.

Healix.5819:

Vayne.8563:

You may be repeating the same story, however, you’re not repeating the same content.

They are when they’re attempting the same achievement for the nth time, which is only worsened by the parts that can’t be skipped. It’s not actually a grind in the traditional sense, but since they only want the mastery point, they feel forced into doing it, which makes it feel like a grind.

No, it’s not grind. Grind does not equal repetition. Technically until you beat a raid, you have to keep trying. When you finally beat it, after dozens of tries, or hundreds, you feel great. But no one calls one raid grind. It’s only grind when you have to repeat it after you beat it.

Something can suck without being grind.

Jhoul.6923:

mbhalo.1547:

Nocturnal Lunacy.8563:

So in order to get all the mastery points for central tyria you have to grind out the living story for them. This is ridiculous.

Grinding them is your choice, you can always play game as usual and eventually you’ll have all the masteries.

I think he is talking about repeating 20+ the same story until he get a AP for the mastery point. Is the same as repeating the same adventure to get gold for the mastery point.

It is a pain that means to an end. But for me it is unnecessary, but without it the game would be too easy… Sooo idk, I decided to stop getting mastery point for a time to rest and concentrated on pvp.

Hopefully I will have renewed energy to grind the story and adventures once more later.

You may be repeating the same story, however, you’re not repeating the same content. It’s like AC. There are different paths that are very similar. But no one says that playing Path 1 is the same as path 2. They’re different paths.

You do the story once, to get the story. Then you have side tasks. Different quests. You’re going to the same place, but you’re doing different things.

If this is grinding, it’s a usage of the word I’ve never heard.

mbhalo.1547:

Vayne.8563:

It’s not as bad as when WvW was part of world complete,

I really miss the days when you had to go to WvW for the world competion, made it a kittenallenging, not the snoozefest as it is now.

But for people who dislike PvP of any kind and there are plenty of them, it was very stressful. I did WvW completes on six different characters, before they changed it, but even that was relatively easy for me, since my server was dominant for a lot of the time and I just had to wait to change colors. We owned most things in our own borderland and when that happened I’d just go take everything.

And that required little to no skill, just time, so, it much the same to me.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Vayne.8563:

It’s not as bad as when WvW was part of world complete, but I agree it’s annoying. However, map completion doesn’t have to be done right now. It’s one aspect of the game, not the entire game. In theory if you keep checking, you’ll catch it.

Essentially the only real problem is you have to do it now.

You say you’ve wasted time. Why? You’re not getting event credit? You’re not getting XP toward masteries? You’re not getting loot?

It’s only a waste of time because of your focus.

It’s a waste of time because it’s tedious. It’s a waste because it blocks progress towards various goals without adding to the sense of accomplishment after completing them. It’s a waste because it works against the simplicity of mechanics found in the rest of the game.

I don’t see anyone claiming that event-gating and time-gating make the maps more fun for more people than maps that don’t include any gating.

GW2 did away with traditional quests (events just start and you participate or not), new collection events often don’t require you to speak with an NPC/node (or if you do, you don’t have to confirm acceptance of the items; they just take them). GW2 makes so many things so much easier than other games and then they bring back old school gating, that serves no particular purpose in making a game more fun; it just serves to slow us down.

Surely if there are good reasons to slow us down, there are better mechanics that can accomplish the same result without being so painful.

Oh sure, no one is saying it’s more fun that gates exist. However if you take away every game, you have not enough content people burn through it in a day and they have nothing to do, they leave the game, and go play something with gates. It’s a sad state of affairs, but that’s the state of affairs. The gating, at least in part, is what keeps the game alive.

There has always been things in this game gated to one degree or another. Even leveling there were plenty of gates even at launch. The gates serve many purposes.

They do have the effect of stopping the most casual players from staying on a map to actually do events they never would have tried because those events were out of their comfort zone. And the ones on the far end of that don’t do it at all, but that doesn’t mean it’s not better for the game over all.

This is the problem from a game designers point of view. If you give most people what they want, they leave. That’s because so many people really just want to get it done so they can move to another game.

The game that keeps them their longer is the winner.

I did buy it…but I’m sucker for toys.

Moyayuki.3619:

Ashen.2907:

Pause.
Look around.
Make decisions about paths to take, angles of approach, and so on based on a considered approach.

In my short experience (I only bought HoT a couple of weeks ago) the single greatest contributor to character death has been a lack of situational awareness. We did not really need to pay attention to what was going on around us in the core maps and so we became accustomed to just charging in, essentially blindly.

We did not need to be aware that a patrol passes through the spot where we intend to attack a mob because adds meant more drops, not more danger. Now one might want to be aware of patrol patterns, pull foes away from such paths, and be already thinking about what one will do if/when the unexpected spawn occurs or one is knocked into a nearby foe’s aggro range.

I am not as young as I once was I am not as good of a player as many. I lack the reflexes I had even just a few years ago. But I have found that by putting some forethought into my actions and being prepared with contingencies for the inevitable SNAFU, HoT is not particularly difficult.

One big issue with these maps is, you see where you want to go (even if it’s looking only at the map since you cannot spot a Mastery Point from the ground), you look around, you find a path…and end up being driven in the opposite direction than you intended, and no clearer paths can be found. I only got two Mastery Points in Verdant Brink because the rest are either in really difficult areas, or can’t even be seen no matter where I go. These maps are a chore, not fun, and I can’t go “enjoy the scenery” and fully explore because I’m always trying not to get killed or fall to my death.

I find these maps fun, because I like the puzzle of figuring out where stuff is. It’s like the old games in the old days. Before places like Dulfy. Even before hint books.

And I enjoy exploring the new zones, because they need to be solved like a puzzle. And once you do solve that puzzle, like any other puzzle they become easier.

But if you’re not enjoying that sort of thing, watch a video. You’ll get the info you need on where stuff is. Most of the stuff is probably not as hard as you think.

Moyayuki.3619:

Vayne.8563:

Moyayuki.3619:

I agree. A few days ago, I finally completed the Silverwastes map. It was the first time I was ever in the map when the big final event was running. I would have been disappointed if the event had failed and the last zone remained closed-off.

And yet it happens, even in the Silverwastes. It’s not very different from the Temples in Orr, which made it very very hard to get the communes on the hero points in them when they weren’t captured after an event.

I actually find all Orr maps to be loads easier than Dry Top, Silverwastes, and HoT maps. Easier to navigate, easier to complete, easier to survive. Though I 100% realize that the Orr maps were nerfed at one point, and the LS and HoT maps are deliberately more difficult. However, I also find no issue with getting into the temple events in Orr, the ones that make it easier to acquire the PoI or WP (some temples I can run in and out easily).

The problem isn’t running into the temple. It’s channeling the skill point when the temple isn’t under Pact control. The spawn rate makes that very hard solo, unless you have a profession that uses stealth. Sometimes you can do it on a ranger using the pet to distract, but it’s still not that easy. There’s also a champ that spawns near a skill point in Malchors, a risen knight, that kills many people who try to get that skill point.

But yes, I agree, the new zones are harder. Then again, there has been some power creep in the game, and many of us are more powerful.

Moyayuki.3619:

I agree. A few days ago, I finally completed the Silverwastes map. It was the first time I was ever in the map when the big final event was running. I would have been disappointed if the event had failed and the last zone remained closed-off.

And yet it happens, even in the Silverwastes. It’s not very different from the Temples in Orr, which made it very very hard to get the communes on the hero points in them when they weren’t captured after an event.

Ella Mackay in LA not only gives you a cut scene telling you of Scarlet’s History but she’ll also give you information on all the NPCs in your group. Just talk to her and you’ll get some background. It’s not a huge amount, but what is there is pretty good.

General Health.9678:

God I hate Plinx. So boring. There’s no waypoint for a start so you have to run across half the map to get there. And explain to other people how to get there. Then you aoe some trash only to run back across the half of the map you just traversed. The champ on the way doesn’t give loot, just karma which is a shame, I miss pulling Plinx into the arena. Then aoe some trash ooze. Then you stand around for the landing zone part. Then some more trash and just as it gets good near the fort, someone will give Plinx speedboost and it ruins it. And then finally the champ abom. Definitely the best bit but by this time something else has started and people leave to go do that as a full Shelter/Pent run is better loot/time than a single champ.

Orr is great for karma trains and / or if you don’t have HoT. I frequently pop back to Orr to gather wood/ori/truffles (I miss omnoms being important) and when I do I’ll do temple events and giant/ooze. There’s still a lot to do in Orr and it’s all nice and simple to get round. Except Plinx. Bugs me. As you can tell Give the poor guy a WP already, there’s a bunch of stuff up that end that would benefit from it.

Even if you own HoT, if you want to level Tyrian masteries, with buffs, the Orr train is as good as anyplace in core Tyria. When Plinx scales up there are tons of mobs all of which give XP, particularly if you’re using a profession that can tag everything.

I found the Cursed Shore a very fast and profitable way to complete my Tyrian masteries, and I did Plinx every time it was up. If nothing else the number of heavy moldy bags I got, on top of the XP made it worth it.

Goatjugsoup.8637:

General Health.9678:

NeoCodex.2438:

People actually play Orr? What do you even do there? I thought that place existed only to farm that Melandru shrine.

When that event isn’t broken, it is!

I came across that problem a lot so it was noticeable to me that the last patch notes noted a fix for that event chain among them. have not actually been doing it since then though

It’s like you people have never heard of Plinx. Just saying.

Dante.1508:

Vayne.8563:

Dante.1508:

Weirdly i enjoyed Dry top more than Silverwastes but i hate HoT.. weird.

You still never let me show you around. lol

I would but i don’t play anymore, i haven’t logged in in weeks, busy playing Homefront the Revolution honestly.

Guildwars 2 as it is need a lot of time and grind to do nearly anything, i do not have the patience to deal with that at this time.

Thanks again for the offer, add me in game and when i login (if i login) i’ll hit you up.

Dante.1508:

Vayne.8563:

Dante.1508:

Weirdly i enjoyed Dry top more than Silverwastes but i hate HoT.. weird.

You still never let me show you around. lol

Me neither. I also offered! LoL

Again the same as above.. I basically login here occasionally to see progress and changes to the game, hopefully adding some damage nerfs to Hot, until then i cannot be bothered playing GW2 as it is.

I hated Orr at release but anet made the maps a lot easier and moving around now is enjoyable so i like the areas a lot more now. Still ugly as sin but a lot more fun for me.

The thing is I told you, pretty much uncategorically, that I could show you the new zones weren’t so bad, and instead of taking me up on it before you left, yes I made the offer long before, you left the game and played another, continuing to badmouth the zones, even though I’ve told you other people in your situation have changed their tune after they spend a bit of time with me including people on this forum.

So you didn’t really give a shot, you did what you did, said it was enough, ignored the offered help that might have turned it around, giving you an excuse to continue to rail against a game you’re admittedly no longer playing.

More to the point, though, you left the game in the first place two years ago because you were fed up with it, only to come back and, not be fed up with it again, but STILL be fed up with it.

I’m not sure you really like the game in the first place, except for maybe the hearts.

If you’re on a US server, hit me up in game. I can show you the ropes. I’ve shown many people around hot and most people seem to like it after. Always happy to help.

It was bugged for a long time. It was fixed in a recent patch. I haven’t played with it too much, but it seems like before, you needed another part of the collection finished before it would give you the stuff for Tarir. It may be, like many collections that it’s not 100% each time you do it. But it should be a healthy percent.

Animism.9803:

Vayne.8563:

Animism.9803:

Vayne.8563:

Animism.9803:

vesica tempestas.1563:

mmorpg differ from single player games, repeatable content is required because there is no mmo on the planet that can generate new content that is played once and last for years. MmoRPG players get this. As I said ‘menial’ is a term in somebody’s head’ You could say repeating fights in PVP is ‘menial’ you could say fighting any form of NPC is ‘menial’ you could say crafting over and over is ‘menial’, you could say walking anywhere is ‘menial’. I’m going through that list of collections right now, and I don’t find it menial, I see it has a progressive set of goals that I am aiming towards over a number of years, and I guestimate ive spent maybe 50k hours in RPGs over the years, so theres little I have not seen in 1 form or another.

This ‘menial’ thing is actually ‘I Don’t like’

Yes. I don’t like it because it’s menial. Because, that’s what it is. Lacking any prestige or skill. Maybe it’s just me, but the term ‘legendary’, gives me the idea that making it should have some prestige and be skillful along the way (hey, didn’t everyone else say that?)

“Purchased from Arias after assisting him in maintaining his garden. "
“Found within the Dragon Chest after defeating Tequatl the Sunless. "

Right. Because we haven’t all done such generic rubbish before. This is a definition of a grind, when it is not fun and it is menial.

And the lists go on.

Of course it is subjective and based on perspective. Good luck finding a large demographic of MMORPG players who fancy wasting their time doing pointless elements. May as well go play Runescape and level to 99 again. Sounds familiar.

I actually preferred the old legendaries; in that there were multiple ways to obtain them, and before anyone whines on about gold selling and purchasing online… having them as collections really changes nothing but kitten off the genuine players who would have potentially liked to have crafted said legendaries. Now the real ‘kiddies’ who would have previously bought legendaries will buy accounts with them. I don’t really understand the reasoning for this style, to be honest.

But there is a big demographic of people who do this stuff. They’re called roleplayers or immersion players.

Like when I made the precursor for Kudzu, I had to go all around the world gathering flowers to plant in a garden. Each thing I’ve done before. Nothing really amazing. But the idea of what I was doing made it interesting for me. I wasn’t playing a mechanic, I was planting a garden.

If you play the game only looking at mechanics, as many do, the whole legendary quest is menial. If you go through the game with a roleplayers mind, you see a different process altogether.

There are a lot of you out there. But there are also a lot of us out there.

That is fine, I have no quarrel with this. Roleplayers are a part of the MMORPG scene, and I somewhat enjoy elements of it. I wouldn’t suggest to remove such elements, but change in a way in which other types of players will also be able to enjoy.

A great example could even be the Tyria mastery points. I have absolutely no interest or intention of completing the LS2 story achievements for mastery points – I quite despise the achievement designs and was not a fan of the story, but I wouldn’t have them removed. Why they tied a large game element to it when there was so much backlash to the living world, I don’t have a clue.

Unfortunately this is not the way to run a business. People think it is. They think appeal to everyone. You can’t run a business appealing to everyone or you’ll run out of money and time. Some people won’t like your product and those people will leave. Or they’ll complain on forums.

But they’re still not a huge majority and that’s the issue. Let’s say you look at the number of people over all who work on legendaries. My guess it it’s already a small percent of the game. Then you take that and you divide it from the core legendaries. We know not everyone has hot and not everyone who has it likes it or plays it. That means only a subset of people who work on legendaries will be working on hot legendaries.

As they are each of these legendary quests takes time to make, reusing the older content. Imagine how much harder/more time consuming/more costly they would be to make a different quest chain of challenging stuff for guys like you.

Then you have guys that don’t like the challenge complaining that they can’t get them.

You kitten off one subset or the other. But kittening off one is cheaper, because the other one demands more time and energy be spent. I hate to break it to you but I don’t think there are enough of you to put that into the budget, strictly as a business decision.

In fact, we see that legendaries, new ones, don’t have enough backing to suggest to Anet that would be a valuable use of resources, since they put all the new legendaries on indefinite hold.

So how much less likely is it then that they’re going to cater to the more demanding demographic. You may want that. You may prefer it, but many other people won’t prefer it, and then you end up with too much money to do this thing and it’s gone.

Every time people demand challenging content and Anet obliges, a fairly large demographic of casual players feels more and more disenfranchised. Legendaries is one of the things that can keep those players playing.

Why would Anet change that?

They changed the status quo of legendaries from core to HoT. That surely deters more players than it benefits.

I agree with what you say though, although I don’t believe that the content expected for new legendaries would be unreasonable, especially if in a context where more players would be interested in it as a result of new players and an ‘unchanging’ system.

When I heard about the upcoming legendaries, by the description, I was expecting them to be much easier to obtain than the previous legendaries.

I still think Anet are trying to cover everything – GW1 was succesful by lore and game mechanics, the latter which GW2 definitely progressed. I think if Anet were trying to solely target their main demographic, then the story for Heart of Thorns and lore involved would be written and presented better. The story was and has always been my largest concern for GW2.

They changed it to make it more legendary for people like me. I didn’t like the original legendary system and thought it sucked. I like this better. They changed it to give it more depth and it doesn’t have more depth if you play for immersion and flavor. That’s what a lot of this game is about.

That’s why you see so many rangers, even though people say rangers aren’t go. People like those characters…for immersion.

I find these quests, even though they’re more expensive, less tedious than the other quests. More interesting than the other.

Animism.9803:

Vayne.8563:

Animism.9803:

vesica tempestas.1563:

mmorpg differ from single player games, repeatable content is required because there is no mmo on the planet that can generate new content that is played once and last for years. MmoRPG players get this. As I said ‘menial’ is a term in somebody’s head’ You could say repeating fights in PVP is ‘menial’ you could say fighting any form of NPC is ‘menial’ you could say crafting over and over is ‘menial’, you could say walking anywhere is ‘menial’. I’m going through that list of collections right now, and I don’t find it menial, I see it has a progressive set of goals that I am aiming towards over a number of years, and I guestimate ive spent maybe 50k hours in RPGs over the years, so theres little I have not seen in 1 form or another.

This ‘menial’ thing is actually ‘I Don’t like’

Yes. I don’t like it because it’s menial. Because, that’s what it is. Lacking any prestige or skill. Maybe it’s just me, but the term ‘legendary’, gives me the idea that making it should have some prestige and be skillful along the way (hey, didn’t everyone else say that?)

“Purchased from Arias after assisting him in maintaining his garden. "
“Found within the Dragon Chest after defeating Tequatl the Sunless. "

Right. Because we haven’t all done such generic rubbish before. This is a definition of a grind, when it is not fun and it is menial.

And the lists go on.

Of course it is subjective and based on perspective. Good luck finding a large demographic of MMORPG players who fancy wasting their time doing pointless elements. May as well go play Runescape and level to 99 again. Sounds familiar.

I actually preferred the old legendaries; in that there were multiple ways to obtain them, and before anyone whines on about gold selling and purchasing online… having them as collections really changes nothing but kitten off the genuine players who would have potentially liked to have crafted said legendaries. Now the real ‘kiddies’ who would have previously bought legendaries will buy accounts with them. I don’t really understand the reasoning for this style, to be honest.

But there is a big demographic of people who do this stuff. They’re called roleplayers or immersion players.

Like when I made the precursor for Kudzu, I had to go all around the world gathering flowers to plant in a garden. Each thing I’ve done before. Nothing really amazing. But the idea of what I was doing made it interesting for me. I wasn’t playing a mechanic, I was planting a garden.

If you play the game only looking at mechanics, as many do, the whole legendary quest is menial. If you go through the game with a roleplayers mind, you see a different process altogether.

There are a lot of you out there. But there are also a lot of us out there.

That is fine, I have no quarrel with this. Roleplayers are a part of the MMORPG scene, and I somewhat enjoy elements of it. I wouldn’t suggest to remove such elements, but change in a way in which other types of players will also be able to enjoy.

A great example could even be the Tyria mastery points. I have absolutely no interest or intention of completing the LS2 story achievements for mastery points – I quite despise the achievement designs and was not a fan of the story, but I wouldn’t have them removed. Why they tied a large game element to it when there was so much backlash to the living world, I don’t have a clue.

Unfortunately this is not the way to run a business. People think it is. They think appeal to everyone. You can’t run a business appealing to everyone or you’ll run out of money and time. Some people won’t like your product and those people will leave. Or they’ll complain on forums.

But they’re still not a huge majority and that’s the issue. Let’s say you look at the number of people over all who work on legendaries. My guess it it’s already a small percent of the game. Then you take that and you divide it from the core legendaries. We know not everyone has hot and not everyone who has it likes it or plays it. That means only a subset of people who work on legendaries will be working on hot legendaries.

As they are each of these legendary quests takes time to make, reusing the older content. Imagine how much harder/more time consuming/more costly they would be to make a different quest chain of challenging stuff for guys like you.

Then you have guys that don’t like the challenge complaining that they can’t get them.

You kitten off one subset or the other. But kittening off one is cheaper, because the other one demands more time and energy be spent. I hate to break it to you but I don’t think there are enough of you to put that into the budget, strictly as a business decision.

In fact, we see that legendaries, new ones, don’t have enough backing to suggest to Anet that would be a valuable use of resources, since they put all the new legendaries on indefinite hold.

So how much less likely is it then that they’re going to cater to the more demanding demographic. You may want that. You may prefer it, but many other people won’t prefer it, and then you end up with too much money to do this thing and it’s gone.

Every time people demand challenging content and Anet obliges, a fairly large demographic of casual players feels more and more disenfranchised. Legendaries is one of the things that can keep those players playing.

Why would Anet change that?

Animism.9803:

vesica tempestas.1563:

mmorpg differ from single player games, repeatable content is required because there is no mmo on the planet that can generate new content that is played once and last for years. MmoRPG players get this. As I said ‘menial’ is a term in somebody’s head’ You could say repeating fights in PVP is ‘menial’ you could say fighting any form of NPC is ‘menial’ you could say crafting over and over is ‘menial’, you could say walking anywhere is ‘menial’. I’m going through that list of collections right now, and I don’t find it menial, I see it has a progressive set of goals that I am aiming towards over a number of years, and I guestimate ive spent maybe 50k hours in RPGs over the years, so theres little I have not seen in 1 form or another.

This ‘menial’ thing is actually ‘I Don’t like’

Yes. I don’t like it because it’s menial. Because, that’s what it is. Lacking any prestige or skill. Maybe it’s just me, but the term ‘legendary’, gives me the idea that making it should have some prestige and be skillful along the way (hey, didn’t everyone else say that?)

“Purchased from Arias after assisting him in maintaining his garden. "
“Found within the Dragon Chest after defeating Tequatl the Sunless. "

Right. Because we haven’t all done such generic rubbish before. This is a definition of a grind, when it is not fun and it is menial.

And the lists go on.

Of course it is subjective and based on perspective. Good luck finding a large demographic of MMORPG players who fancy wasting their time doing pointless elements. May as well go play Runescape and level to 99 again. Sounds familiar.

I actually preferred the old legendaries; in that there were multiple ways to obtain them, and before anyone whines on about gold selling and purchasing online… having them as collections really changes nothing but kitten off the genuine players who would have potentially liked to have crafted said legendaries. Now the real ‘kiddies’ who would have previously bought legendaries will buy accounts with them. I don’t really understand the reasoning for this style, to be honest.

But there is a big demographic of people who do this stuff. They’re called roleplayers or immersion players.

Like when I made the precursor for Kudzu, I had to go all around the world gathering flowers to plant in a garden. Each thing I’ve done before. Nothing really amazing. But the idea of what I was doing made it interesting for me. I wasn’t playing a mechanic, I was planting a garden.

If you play the game only looking at mechanics, as many do, the whole legendary quest is menial. If you go through the game with a roleplayers mind, you see a different process altogether.

There are a lot of you out there. But there are also a lot of us out there.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Vayne.8563:

Animism.9803:

LOL…. Just realised they realeased all these new legendaries… none of which I’ll be able to get.
I was looking at making Nevermore, then I saw the achievement collections, in addition to the maximum mastery (Nuhoch/Exalted etc) to get the gifts.

Is this for real? I’m now expected to do all the achievements for mastery points just to craft a single of the legendary weapons?

………………. Wow.

Guess I won’t be getting any. I’d rather not play than even continue to read through the contents of the huge collection lists.

It’s a long term goal and it’s supposed to push limits. That’s what legendary means. They’re doable. They’re not doable fast. You just have to take your time.

What’s the difference if you chip away at something for a year while doing other stuff?

No, I’m afraid that is not what “legendary” means. Well, maybe, if you’re taking the position that L. Items being related to actual legends is " a popular myth of recent origin."

It’s what legendary means in games. Within context, it’s what legendary means. It’s supposed to stretch you, push you, and yes, make you jump through hoops. That’s what legendaries are in most games I’ve played.

Obviously we’re talking about legendary items, not legendary in the dictionary definition just like a mob isn’t one guy outside MMOs. Sometimes context is everything.

Dante.1508:

Personally if anet nerfed those annoying ranged frogs and mushrooms to death, i think i could deal with hot as it is..

For me its mostly those things that drain all the fun outta my game to the point i just don’t want to go there anymore or even login.

And it would make the jungle much more forgiving, much easier and I’d lost interest in playing there along with people who do enjoy it. It’s four zones. These are the kinds of zones that have been mostly missing since launch. It’s time people acknowledged there are people that like SOME challenge in their game.

Dante.1508:

Shiyo.3578:

Nocturnal Lunacy.8563:

So having to do each living story 3 or 4 times in order to get all the achievements and hence the mastery point isn’t repetitive? Seems like a lot of you like them korean grindfests and think that this isn’t grind here.
Having to do and redo bosses isn’t grind? Having to keep doing fractals isn’t grind?
I’m sitting with full exp bars on all the available masteries but still earning exp is just a waste of time. But there’s no grind there at all is there? Too many fanbois and whiteknights here to accomplish anything.

You’re choosing to do those things. You don’t have to do any of those things to progress your character into BIS gear.

You don’t have to do anything, sitting in LA is not grind, but its not exactly fun either… Saying you don’t have to do any of that is just silly because if we don’t we aren’t playing the game at all…

So not logging in isn’t grind.. you are right there.. pretty silly though.

Right. but the elephant in the room no one mentions is that BIS gear is bis here for years at a time, not weeks or months. Anet introduced an expansion with no raised level cap and no new tier of gear.

And once you’ve made expensive stuff like armor and weapons, you can even change their stats cheaply in the mystic forge. And with the exception of the highest level fractals, you don’t need that gear to play anything in the game. That makes the grind not required, except for high level fractals which are designed specifically for the purpose of appeasing those who enjoy grind. And even that’s not that grindy.

So if you PLAY the game, just normally, eventually you can max out your gear without doing much else. The more casually you play the longer it’ll take, but so what? It’s not like you have to do it again.

I should also reiterate you don’t need that gear for anything but the highest level fractals.

What you’re doing here is taking the spirit of someone’s words and trying to twist it while ignoring the meaning.

You can easily make slow progress toward these goals without killing yourself. The option to grind is if you want to get it now.

And if that’s the case, that’s your choice. It’s still not being forced to grind.

Animism.9803:

The other parts of the legendary are already long enough without the individual HoT collections, the list of menial things to do in those is just too long…

I don’t think it’s too long. I think it’s fine for an account bound weapon that’s supposed to convey effort when someone wields it.

Most things don’t take that long to kill if you’re efficient. Not even sure what you’re on about.

Animism.9803:

LOL…. Just realised they realeased all these new legendaries… none of which I’ll be able to get.
I was looking at making Nevermore, then I saw the achievement collections, in addition to the maximum mastery (Nuhoch/Exalted etc) to get the gifts.

Is this for real? I’m now expected to do all the achievements for mastery points just to craft a single of the legendary weapons?

………………. Wow.

Guess I won’t be getting any. I’d rather not play than even continue to read through the contents of the huge collection lists.

It’s a long term goal and it’s supposed to push limits. That’s what legendary means. They’re doable. They’re not doable fast. You just have to take your time.

What’s the difference if you chip away at something for a year while doing other stuff?

Trepidation Lost.3469:

Vayne.8563:

Trepidation Lost.3469:

Vayne.8563:

Trepidation Lost.3469:

Vayne.8563:

Trepidation Lost.3469:

Vayne.8563:

Trepidation Lost.3469:

Vayne.8563:

Trepidation Lost.3469:

Vayne.8563:

Trepidation Lost.3469:

Barred from equallity in wvw as im versing people who have raid stats i need different stats, to aquire them i need to grind raids how do you not understand.

I don’t understand because I’ve WvWed and it’s not based on 1v1 it’s server vs server. The odds of anyone ending up with someone with the exact same skills and exact same build the exact same connection, the exact same computer specs are negliable.

By your rights the game is pay to win because I live in Australia and my ping is higher than in the US and so I can’t play the game without paying real money and moving to the US because I’m disadvantaged.

Where as in Rift, if I didn’t have the required focus provided by gear, I couldn’t even queue for the content I wanted to play. The game prevented you from queueing.

You may want that stuff, but you don’t need it to play. You only strongly believe you do.
If it’s important enough to you, you will grind. A legendary is important to me so I’ll grind for it. That’s how the game works.

It’s your choice to play that content with other stats, you choose not to.

I dont run around brain dead in a zerg of 50 people, i roam, solo or as a small group, stats matter in these situations.

To you. Stats don’t matter to me. See how easy this is?

Matter to you or not the fact remains that this is leaving people who raid with an advantage.

Which is irrelevant to whether or not you need it. That’s the point. You say if someone has an advantage no matter how slight that you need to do it. That’s not fact, it’s opinion. You want to do it. You choose to do it.

Anet said before launch WvW was not meant to be balanced that way. You think it is but it’s not. It’s not balanced on 1v1. In fact, nothing in the game is actually balanced on 1v1, so the whole concept is just something in your mind. You think it must be this way.

But if the game isn’t balanced on 1v1 then it’s not a requirement…it’s a preference.

No its still a fact that its an unfair advantage, can apply it to top dps in pve too. lelelelelee

That may or may not be a fact, but you still aren’t forced to grind. You can factually still play WvW without having that set of gear, unlike other games which force you to grind. It’s the difference.

Put it another way. My end game might say I must have the coolest legendary because it looks coolest. I have to have it. It’s a must to me. But that doesn’t mean I’m forced to grind that legendary. I can play all the content in the game without it.

You’d have a point if you couldn’t play that content. Fractals does force you to grind to play the highest levels and it was designed for the crowd who wants to grind.

But this, this is still your decision, disadvantage or not.

Comparing cosmetics to actual stat pool is ridiculous. fact.
I can’t raid becaue i don’t have pve gear, i would ahve to spend loads of gold making a new set. So yeah, forced to raid and grind to get what i need prevent being ata disadvantage.

This game is often called Fashion Wars 2. I’ve never heard it called stat wars 2. Are you suggesting if you don’t have those stats you crave, you absolutely can’t beat a guy who does?

You’ve never heard of stat wars two :O? so you must never have been ina raid, or a dungeon or anythignwher epeople say ping gear? well, i guess you should stop commenting then because you clearly do not know anythign about this game.

Often the more specialized you are in a field, the less able you are to see clearly. That is to say, you’re so focused on one thing that nothing else is an argument except your focus. The problem is your comments can only be proven if you axiomatically accept the basis that everyone is on an even footing to begin with. It’s not true.

There are lots of people I could probably beat in PvP, and when my ping hovers around 200 I often do. Those same people, when my ping hovers around 400 kick my kitten , because they have an advantage. This isn’t the olympics. WvW is not an esport. There was never any guarantee everyone would be even in the first place, but in a game with this many variables, there’s very much no way two people are going to be equal no matter what gear they have.

This is an illusion carried over from other games were stats are the be all end all. Technique here is often as or more important than just stats. As for insulting me, that’s okay. It usually is what people do when they lose arguments.

Notice, I didn’t have to resort to personal insults to make a point.

Edit:

I googled Guild Wars 2 “stat wars 2” btw and got 2 results.
Try googling Guild Wars 2 “fashion wars 2” and see how many results you get.

One of us should do more research before accusing someone of ignorance.

i didnt insult you. i made the point that youre mentioning irrelivent things like skins lol. no matter what stats are what matters in roaming.

This is your quote “well, i guess you should stop commenting then because you clearly do not know anythign about this game.”

Saying someone doesn’t know anything about the game is clearly an insult. For example, I can name all 9 professions, so I know something about the game. The fact is, my search for fashion wars 2 came up a whole lot more than the whole “stat wars 2” thing.

And yes, saying someone knows nothing about a game can be construed as an insult by anyone without an agenda.

Edit: On topic, nothing, and I do mean nothing in the game requires you to those raid trinkets to participate in the game.

Stupid page bug.

Trepidation Lost.3469:

Vayne.8563:

Trepidation Lost.3469:

Vayne.8563:

Trepidation Lost.3469:

Vayne.8563:

Trepidation Lost.3469:

Vayne.8563:

Trepidation Lost.3469:

Vayne.8563:

Trepidation Lost.3469:

Barred from equallity in wvw as im versing people who have raid stats i need different stats, to aquire them i need to grind raids how do you not understand.

I don’t understand because I’ve WvWed and it’s not based on 1v1 it’s server vs server. The odds of anyone ending up with someone with the exact same skills and exact same build the exact same connection, the exact same computer specs are negliable.

By your rights the game is pay to win because I live in Australia and my ping is higher than in the US and so I can’t play the game without paying real money and moving to the US because I’m disadvantaged.

Where as in Rift, if I didn’t have the required focus provided by gear, I couldn’t even queue for the content I wanted to play. The game prevented you from queueing.

You may want that stuff, but you don’t need it to play. You only strongly believe you do.
If it’s important enough to you, you will grind. A legendary is important to me so I’ll grind for it. That’s how the game works.

It’s your choice to play that content with other stats, you choose not to.

I dont run around brain dead in a zerg of 50 people, i roam, solo or as a small group, stats matter in these situations.

To you. Stats don’t matter to me. See how easy this is?

Matter to you or not the fact remains that this is leaving people who raid with an advantage.

Which is irrelevant to whether or not you need it. That’s the point. You say if someone has an advantage no matter how slight that you need to do it. That’s not fact, it’s opinion. You want to do it. You choose to do it.

Anet said before launch WvW was not meant to be balanced that way. You think it is but it’s not. It’s not balanced on 1v1. In fact, nothing in the game is actually balanced on 1v1, so the whole concept is just something in your mind. You think it must be this way.

But if the game isn’t balanced on 1v1 then it’s not a requirement…it’s a preference.

No its still a fact that its an unfair advantage, can apply it to top dps in pve too. lelelelelee

That may or may not be a fact, but you still aren’t forced to grind. You can factually still play WvW without having that set of gear, unlike other games which force you to grind. It’s the difference.

Put it another way. My end game might say I must have the coolest legendary because it looks coolest. I have to have it. It’s a must to me. But that doesn’t mean I’m forced to grind that legendary. I can play all the content in the game without it.

You’d have a point if you couldn’t play that content. Fractals does force you to grind to play the highest levels and it was designed for the crowd who wants to grind.

But this, this is still your decision, disadvantage or not.

Comparing cosmetics to actual stat pool is ridiculous. fact.
I can’t raid becaue i don’t have pve gear, i would ahve to spend loads of gold making a new set. So yeah, forced to raid and grind to get what i need prevent being ata disadvantage.

This game is often called Fashion Wars 2. I’ve never heard it called stat wars 2. Are you suggesting if you don’t have those stats you crave, you absolutely can’t beat a guy who does?

You’ve never heard of stat wars two :O? so you must never have been ina raid, or a dungeon or anythignwher epeople say ping gear? well, i guess you should stop commenting then because you clearly do not know anythign about this game.

Often the more specialized you are in a field, the less able you are to see clearly. That is to say, you’re so focused on one thing that nothing else is an argument except your focus. The problem is your comments can only be proven if you axiomatically accept the basis that everyone is on an even footing to begin with. It’s not true.

There are lots of people I could probably beat in PvP, and when my ping hovers around 200 I often do. Those same people, when my ping hovers around 400 kick my kitten , because they have an advantage. This isn’t the olympics. WvW is not an esport. There was never any guarantee everyone would be even in the first place, but in a game with this many variables, there’s very much no way two people are going to be equal no matter what gear they have.

This is an illusion carried over from other games were stats are the be all end all. Technique here is often as or more important than just stats. As for insulting me, that’s okay. It usually is what people do when they lose arguments.

Notice, I didn’t have to resort to personal insults to make a point.

Edit:

I googled Guild Wars 2 “stat wars 2” btw and got 2 results.
Try googling Guild Wars 2 “fashion wars 2” and see how many results you get.

One of us should do more research before accusing someone of ignorance.

Trepidation Lost.3469:

Vayne.8563:

Trepidation Lost.3469:

Vayne.8563:

Trepidation Lost.3469:

Vayne.8563:

Trepidation Lost.3469:

Vayne.8563:

Trepidation Lost.3469:

Barred from equallity in wvw as im versing people who have raid stats i need different stats, to aquire them i need to grind raids how do you not understand.

I don’t understand because I’ve WvWed and it’s not based on 1v1 it’s server vs server. The odds of anyone ending up with someone with the exact same skills and exact same build the exact same connection, the exact same computer specs are negliable.

By your rights the game is pay to win because I live in Australia and my ping is higher than in the US and so I can’t play the game without paying real money and moving to the US because I’m disadvantaged.

Where as in Rift, if I didn’t have the required focus provided by gear, I couldn’t even queue for the content I wanted to play. The game prevented you from queueing.

You may want that stuff, but you don’t need it to play. You only strongly believe you do.
If it’s important enough to you, you will grind. A legendary is important to me so I’ll grind for it. That’s how the game works.

It’s your choice to play that content with other stats, you choose not to.

I dont run around brain dead in a zerg of 50 people, i roam, solo or as a small group, stats matter in these situations.

To you. Stats don’t matter to me. See how easy this is?

Matter to you or not the fact remains that this is leaving people who raid with an advantage.

Which is irrelevant to whether or not you need it. That’s the point. You say if someone has an advantage no matter how slight that you need to do it. That’s not fact, it’s opinion. You want to do it. You choose to do it.

Anet said before launch WvW was not meant to be balanced that way. You think it is but it’s not. It’s not balanced on 1v1. In fact, nothing in the game is actually balanced on 1v1, so the whole concept is just something in your mind. You think it must be this way.

But if the game isn’t balanced on 1v1 then it’s not a requirement…it’s a preference.

No its still a fact that its an unfair advantage, can apply it to top dps in pve too. lelelelelee

That may or may not be a fact, but you still aren’t forced to grind. You can factually still play WvW without having that set of gear, unlike other games which force you to grind. It’s the difference.

Put it another way. My end game might say I must have the coolest legendary because it looks coolest. I have to have it. It’s a must to me. But that doesn’t mean I’m forced to grind that legendary. I can play all the content in the game without it.

You’d have a point if you couldn’t play that content. Fractals does force you to grind to play the highest levels and it was designed for the crowd who wants to grind.

But this, this is still your decision, disadvantage or not.

Comparing cosmetics to actual stat pool is ridiculous. fact.
I can’t raid becaue i don’t have pve gear, i would ahve to spend loads of gold making a new set. So yeah, forced to raid and grind to get what i need prevent being ata disadvantage.

This game is often called Fashion Wars 2. I’ve never heard it called stat wars 2. Are you suggesting if you don’t have those stats you crave, you absolutely can’t beat a guy who does?

Trepidation Lost.3469:

Vayne.8563:

Trepidation Lost.3469:

Vayne.8563:

Trepidation Lost.3469:

Vayne.8563:

Trepidation Lost.3469:

Barred from equallity in wvw as im versing people who have raid stats i need different stats, to aquire them i need to grind raids how do you not understand.

I don’t understand because I’ve WvWed and it’s not based on 1v1 it’s server vs server. The odds of anyone ending up with someone with the exact same skills and exact same build the exact same connection, the exact same computer specs are negliable.

By your rights the game is pay to win because I live in Australia and my ping is higher than in the US and so I can’t play the game without paying real money and moving to the US because I’m disadvantaged.

Where as in Rift, if I didn’t have the required focus provided by gear, I couldn’t even queue for the content I wanted to play. The game prevented you from queueing.

You may want that stuff, but you don’t need it to play. You only strongly believe you do.
If it’s important enough to you, you will grind. A legendary is important to me so I’ll grind for it. That’s how the game works.

It’s your choice to play that content with other stats, you choose not to.

I dont run around brain dead in a zerg of 50 people, i roam, solo or as a small group, stats matter in these situations.

To you. Stats don’t matter to me. See how easy this is?

Matter to you or not the fact remains that this is leaving people who raid with an advantage.

Which is irrelevant to whether or not you need it. That’s the point. You say if someone has an advantage no matter how slight that you need to do it. That’s not fact, it’s opinion. You want to do it. You choose to do it.

Anet said before launch WvW was not meant to be balanced that way. You think it is but it’s not. It’s not balanced on 1v1. In fact, nothing in the game is actually balanced on 1v1, so the whole concept is just something in your mind. You think it must be this way.

But if the game isn’t balanced on 1v1 then it’s not a requirement…it’s a preference.

No its still a fact that its an unfair advantage, can apply it to top dps in pve too. lelelelelee

That may or may not be a fact, but you still aren’t forced to grind. You can factually still play WvW without having that set of gear, unlike other games which force you to grind. It’s the difference.

Put it another way. My end game might say I must have the coolest legendary because it looks coolest. I have to have it. It’s a must to me. But that doesn’t mean I’m forced to grind that legendary. I can play all the content in the game without it.

You’d have a point if you couldn’t play that content. Fractals does force you to grind to play the highest levels and it was designed for the crowd who wants to grind.

But this, this is still your decision, disadvantage or not.

Trepidation Lost.3469:

Vayne.8563:

Trepidation Lost.3469:

Vayne.8563:

Trepidation Lost.3469:

Barred from equallity in wvw as im versing people who have raid stats i need different stats, to aquire them i need to grind raids how do you not understand.

I don’t understand because I’ve WvWed and it’s not based on 1v1 it’s server vs server. The odds of anyone ending up with someone with the exact same skills and exact same build the exact same connection, the exact same computer specs are negliable.

By your rights the game is pay to win because I live in Australia and my ping is higher than in the US and so I can’t play the game without paying real money and moving to the US because I’m disadvantaged.

Where as in Rift, if I didn’t have the required focus provided by gear, I couldn’t even queue for the content I wanted to play. The game prevented you from queueing.

You may want that stuff, but you don’t need it to play. You only strongly believe you do.
If it’s important enough to you, you will grind. A legendary is important to me so I’ll grind for it. That’s how the game works.

It’s your choice to play that content with other stats, you choose not to.

I dont run around brain dead in a zerg of 50 people, i roam, solo or as a small group, stats matter in these situations.

To you. Stats don’t matter to me. See how easy this is?

Matter to you or not the fact remains that this is leaving people who raid with an advantage.

Which is irrelevant to whether or not you need it. That’s the point. You say if someone has an advantage no matter how slight that you need to do it. That’s not fact, it’s opinion. You want to do it. You choose to do it.

Anet said before launch WvW was not meant to be balanced that way. You think it is but it’s not. It’s not balanced on 1v1. In fact, nothing in the game is actually balanced on 1v1, so the whole concept is just something in your mind. You think it must be this way.

But if the game isn’t balanced on 1v1 then it’s not a requirement…it’s a preference.

Trepidation Lost.3469:

Vayne.8563:

Trepidation Lost.3469:

Barred from equallity in wvw as im versing people who have raid stats i need different stats, to aquire them i need to grind raids how do you not understand.

I don’t understand because I’ve WvWed and it’s not based on 1v1 it’s server vs server. The odds of anyone ending up with someone with the exact same skills and exact same build the exact same connection, the exact same computer specs are negliable.

By your rights the game is pay to win because I live in Australia and my ping is higher than in the US and so I can’t play the game without paying real money and moving to the US because I’m disadvantaged.

Where as in Rift, if I didn’t have the required focus provided by gear, I couldn’t even queue for the content I wanted to play. The game prevented you from queueing.

You may want that stuff, but you don’t need it to play. You only strongly believe you do.
If it’s important enough to you, you will grind. A legendary is important to me so I’ll grind for it. That’s how the game works.

It’s your choice to play that content with other stats, you choose not to.

I dont run around brain dead in a zerg of 50 people, i roam, solo or as a small group, stats matter in these situations.

To you. Stats don’t matter to me. See how easy this is?

Trepidation Lost.3469:

Barred from equallity in wvw as im versing people who have raid stats i need different stats, to aquire them i need to grind raids how do you not understand.

I don’t understand because I’ve WvWed and it’s not based on 1v1 it’s server vs server. The odds of anyone ending up with someone with the exact same skills and exact same build the exact same connection, the exact same computer specs are negliable.

By your rights the game is pay to win because I live in Australia and my ping is higher than in the US and so I can’t play the game without paying real money and moving to the US because I’m disadvantaged.

Where as in Rift, if I didn’t have the required focus provided by gear, I couldn’t even queue for the content I wanted to play. The game prevented you from queueing.

You may want that stuff, but you don’t need it to play. You only strongly believe you do.
If it’s important enough to you, you will grind. A legendary is important to me so I’ll grind for it. That’s how the game works.

It’s your choice to play that content with other stats, you choose not to.

Trepidation Lost.3469:

Vayne.8563:

Trepidation Lost.3469:

Vayne.8563:

Trepidation Lost.3469:

Vayne.8563:

Trepidation Lost.3469:

Forced to grind raids for Specific stats because although it snot pay to win, its grind raids to have best stats for wvw. AKA buy HoT so you can do raids to win.

And you can’t live without the sets? You can’t play the game without them? You can’t kill world bosses, or players in PvP?

This isn’t forced to grind. It’s your choice to go for those stats as it was mine to go for a legendary.

Point being anet has always said they wont have grind to aquire best stats, and yet here we are.

Actually, due to the fact that you max out on tokens pretty fast, you can’t even really grind them. Gating isn’t a grind. You have three bosses and then another three. That’s not grind in the sense that Anet used it.

It’s not the same task over and over and the token limit makes it even less so. Unfortunately your definition of grind is one among many.

so, needing to get 2 earring 2 rings and an amulet, on about 9 chars doesnt require grinding? hm youre wrong

They’re account bound. You only need to get in once. And in fact you don’t need to gt it at all. You think you need it. There’s is exactly zero content off limits to you if you don’t get it.

To put it in perspective when I played Rift, I required certain gear to do even a single point of damage to a high level raid foe. If I didn’t have that gear, I couldn’t damage it at all. Guild Wars 2 doesn’t work that way. It’s not gated behind gear.

Somewhere in your mind, you’re saying to yourself you NEED that gear. On nine characters. That’s not a fact however, it’s just your thought process.

You don’t need it. You want it.

And you wanting something is not required grind.

They’re account bound. You only need to get in once ? hmm, not if i needdifferent stats on diff chars i dont play the same clas 5 times. My argument was that its unfair advantage in my scene, wvw. To those who raid and get best stats. when ims tuck say for example on my condi war with excess precision that is useless to me.
Also anet ahs said numerous times that aquiring the best gear will not require grinding. Grinding=doeing somthing repeatedly to aquire somthing…Which i would ahve to do to get them al=grinding. I dont need them, no but i need them to have the best things for the builds ive created

If you need different stats then you don’t have to grind the raids. And you’re still making this argument that want is need. What content are you barred from that requires that stat set, or any specific stat set?

Because you’re not barred from SPvP arguably the most competitive format in the game. That’s equalized for all HoT owners. WvW isn’t a one on one game, it’s a zerg vs zerg game. I WvW all the time with all different stats.

Wanting something is not needing it. Therefore you don’t need to grind.

At any rate, I definitely don’t think any stat set should be locked behind one type of content that most players aren’t particularly interested in by percentage (and though I can’t prove it, I’m absolutely convinced most players will never raid).