I guarantee you, just from knowing how Anet works, that the new expansion will nothing at all like HoT. Anet has always been hyper-reactive to crticism. Always.
I can’t speak to that. However, lest we miss who is pulling on the puppet strings and who is dancing, note that NCSOFT announces to investors that they need another expansion, and ANET shelves the popular Legendary crafting indefinitely and moves the people to the expansion, to speed it up.
But you ignore that fact that NcSoft has been claiming an expansion was coming soon since the first report after Guild Wars 2 launched. You have a data point of 1 and your’e trying to draw conclusions from it.
NcSoft has always said an expansion was coming even when Anet didn’t say it and wasn’t actively working on it.
From past experience with the company, I don’t think NcSoft has too much control over Anet. For example, for ages, people said the reason Anet had their silence policy was due to NcSoft. Yet NcSoft owned Wildstar too and they didn’t have a silence policy.
No, I think that Anet would have done this anyway, as a response to the vocally negative reaction to the first expansion and the fact that it didn’t meet expectations.
What you said only supports his argument in that NCSoft controls the inevitable flow of content out of sheer business logic versus how ANet plans to operate.
You mean NcSoft announced an expansion time and time again and Anet doesn’t start working on it until two years later and that shows Anet is obeying NcSoft. Okay then.
Play in Orr. The difficulty jumped when you reached that map. you also saw it in Silverwastes. There was a progression from a map like Queensdale to a map like Tangled Depths. It just wasn’t a forced, linear path.
Yeah Orr at launch was hell. It made HoT look like a walk in the park. The silverwastes was hard the first time you walked in there. Not too bad, but a nice little challenge.
and how did that work out?
they had to nerf it twice, and its still one of the most unpopular mapsYou’re just trolling yourself now, Cursed Shore and Silverwastes are incredibly popular farming maps.
“FARMING maps”
there is the reason..nerf the rewards, and you would see how popular they really are
then i could easily deduct , that most people like to go to work
they dont, they just like to have some money
First of all some people even many like farming. It’s something they enjoy. And when the rewards were worse, I was still getting full servers on every map if I used the LFG tool, so it wouldn’t show anything to reduce the rewards. Are there more people now? Sure. Were there plenty of people before the update. Yes, there were.
So I don’t know what you’re on about.
(edited by Vayne.8563)
I didn’t find any of it to be really “hard”, but there was plenty that was annoying. I am also more of a “solo” player if I am doing PvE, I can’t have my WvW friends knowing that I am doing PvE so I must do it alone.
Kidding aside, soloing a lot of those hero points was either a major pain or just impossible. I did require help from map chat or from friends to complete a decent amount of the hero points from HoT areas, but I suppose it encourages group play and meeting people, which is what MMOs are traditionally about anyway.
“encourages group play”
Does it really? How many times after you called people to help with a HP did you remain in a party with said people for more shared activities?
I’ve called people for HP help too and after its done we all type a “ty” in chat and go about our merry way. There is no such thing as forcing people into groups, it doesnt exist. People either get together because they want or they dont regardless of content being easy or hard.
Encouraging group play isn’t the same as forcing group play though. It encourages group play which is why you see so many hero point trains. You don’t have to join them but man it’s convenient. And I can’t think of anything more convenient than encouraging group play.
I go spend an hour and a half in DS you can bet I join a squad and play with the group.
Sure it’s a choice. But I feel encouraged to join a group, just not forced. And forcing, in my opinion, would be bad.
@Indigo Sundown
In regards to HoT being so unpopulated that you won’t be able to do hero points, with the mega server technology that’s pretty unlikely to happen at least not for many years.
I don’t know how many people are playing this game at any instant, but even old servers (before the game was free to play) usually had people to help you out, no matter what time I was playing. If I tagged up and used map chat, I’d get people. Anywhere any time, almost all the time. Maybe on a rare occasion I wouldn’t …but the next time I would anyway.
Out of all the people playing at any given time, are we assuming people won’t be running the HoT zones at all?
I mean hell there’s an entire guild dedicated to running Dry Top.
If the need is there, guilds will form for that too.
And in a worst case scenario you can make a friend or join a guild. I can’t think of any point in any map I can’t three man.
If I had any confidence in ANet’s ability to fix megaservers, I might agree with you.
Seriously what major concern haven’t they fixed. It’s not a question of if…it’s a question of manpower. Did they fix culling. Sure. It took ages but they fixed it. They fixed the down hill bug that killed people. They’ve fixed stuff that’s important all along, but it takes them a long time.
I strongly suspect that the pressure they put on people to work faster means that coders don’t document their work properly due to feeling rushed. So when they leave and new people have to decipher their code it takes much much longer for them to fix it.
That doesn’t mean they’re incapable of fixing it. It means not enough attention was paid to documentation to make it faster/easier to fix. It’s like being wise with pennies but losing dollars. Documentation on coding is massively important.
But Anet’s coders are top notch. Look at how other MMOs handled maintenance and updates. Guild Wars 2 is better than almost all of them. Very little down time compared to almost every MMO I’ve played.
The programming is fine. And the famous Susan is one of the head server designers, she’s still there after 12 years.
They have plenty of ability. It just takes them a long time.
I love playing GW2 core. Its a masterpiece in many ways.
In HOT my typical experience is:
1) need mastery and hero points
2) find some on map i dont have yet
3) get killed on way to new spot
(Or killled when i get there)I feel like a big chicken as i dash and run away from mobs
Only to get swarmed and eaten by a bunch of baby raptors.What am i doing wrong? Does anybody find this fun?
Any advice would be appreciated as id like to enjoy hot.
Thanks
GfSo you dont like progression? Im sorry but it doesnt sound like rpgs are your cup of tea, I love those aspects of the game. Im only talking about your concern masteries and exploration.
a normal RPG would give the player the tools , to play the content
earning the rights, to play the content, is simply content stretching
thats a bad thingHow do you not have the tools? He said he doesnt like the masteries and sense of unlocking therefore, that tells they dont like a sense of progression which what is an rpg, you have the lfg tool, just because you cannot solo everything doesnt mean you dont have the tools:)
Im not trying to be rude its just how this sounds to me.
of course i like progression, but in this case, the annoyance is simply too much , to get the progression
much of the map is simply unavailable, unless you have all the relevant masteries
and, you can only GET those masteries, by playing on those maps
this is bad design, and the first nerf showed us how it was received by the majority of players
later they will nerf it even more, but it wont help much
imagine the waiters at a restaurant started hiding the chairs, and then told you to
“sit down and enjoy your meal”
i pay for entertainment..not annoyanceActually, these maps are big and most events are doable without masteries in like VB, while exploring the map and doing Events and event chains while exploring will give enough EXP to continue to the places you can’t reach. Unless you run around avoid events and enemies you should not have been able to explore the map that you can explore without masteries without getting enough masteries to get to note places. Now the tricky part is to choose what mastery you want to learn. If you wanna max out gliding before anything else then you are doing it very wrong.
and thats the problem, i really hate events, so i dont do them
like i said, i like progression, but not for any price
BTW , if players really like some content, they will do it, regardless of the reward
much of the later content is purely reward based= its BAD content
proof? try nerfing the rewards, and see how many players will stayYou hate events? Is it just me or do you just not make much sense in this thread, events are a huge part of pve, and hot was for mostly pve, do you prefer hearts to level in pve then? And how is it bad design to earn stuff from those maps? Are you not doing the story line in hot or something?
This is why I question if you like rpgs, take for example some of the elder scrolls games, you needed to explore certain areas to find items, there are plenty of rpgs out there where you have static items until you unlock the area and explore it, in fact id say more then half the rpgs out there are like this. Its fine if you dont like rpgs or prefer them a certain way but dont call it bad design just because it isnt your prefrence.
WTH? should i adjust my opinion to YOUR preferences?
“bad design” is opinion , when its from one person
when metrics show the same, its not opinion, its a FACT
single player RPGs become stale very fast to me, i did dragon age a couple of times
didnt do ES, i dont like the artstyleNo I didnt say that at all but your complaining about rpg elements when clearly this is an mmorpg, im sorry if this sounds rude but its no ones else’s fault you didnt research the game before you bought it based on your prefrences or maybe you did and it just appeared different to you from reviews or whatever you may have watched and read.
I didnt say anything about these being mine either but these prefrences are standards in rpgs that was my point. Also you said it was a bad design when in fact it isnt, it may be a bad design in your opinion but thats because you dont prefer these kind of rpg elements therefor you where not clear and simply stating its bad design.
yep, i clearly hate RPGS
played wow for roughly 5 years, since vanilla, bought and played all the expansions
i have over 20 characters in this game too
aion, FF14, STO, LOTRO , i at least tried most of the big mmos
currently im mostly raiding in DCUO
hell, i even bought, and played the division, and i really suck at shooters
and im telling you: this expansion is nowhere near the core game
it might as well be a different gameI dont think you understand what I said originally in every single one of those mmorpgs you still have to get certain gear and things before you can access certain content, that is essentially the same thing behind mastery unlocks or any real rpg element for that matter.
oh, i understand completely
do A to get B, thats how these games work
the problem here, is that A is overwhelming, and B is the opposite
its always bad for a game, when the player thinks" why the hell am i doing this?"
when progression gets too hard , or slow, most players dont research, or"git gud"
they just log on to an easier gameHow is a more overwhelming in this mmo compared to those others? Thats just not true, you do know masteries are account bound right?
i know..do YOU know, what those masteries are needed for?
to unlock the "open world " of maguma jungle…that i had to pay for in the first place
this is the way of a F2P mmo, but they used it on their B2P expansion
this will bite them, when the next expansion comes out
no matter how good it is, it will sell even worse, than hot didIt’s not going to bite them. It’s called progression. Only a small percentage of the masteries are required to unlock the zones and those go pretty fast. You don’t need most of them. The most important ones, arguably are the lowest ones. The rest you can do at your leisure.
And the way of the free to play MMO isn’t to gate of content. The way of the free to play MMO is to gate of content for extra pay. This is different.
Most games make you level to get to the content, and this isn’t really that much different. That is to say, in most MMOs, you can’t access content until you go through something else. WoW is like that. Every MMO I can think of is like that.
The only difference here is that your stats don’t go up when you do it. But I don’t understand how this is different than leveling in other MMOs when expansions come out, so I have no clue why you think there’d be a backlash.
In fact, in most MMOs it’s even worse, because in most MMOs after you get to max level, you then have to start getting gear to progress, which is RNG based and limited to raids.
Well I have nothing to add, you covered everything I was trying to say, I just want people to think outside the box and realize a sense of progression is a good thing, instant gratification really isnt.
I hope the op does change his mind and enjoys it, I wish you the best op.
you said it yourself: the stats dont go up
the mobs get harder, but i dont get better
this NOT the way of a normal mmo
get better gear then..so, they made a gear check for open world content?
Ding ding ding. We have a winner. This is NOT the way of a normal mmo. It’s a good thing I can’t stand normal MMOs. They suck. They’re really really bad. They’re treadmills in the worst sense of the word.
Power creep is a problem in almost every MMO I’ve ever played including Guild Wars 2. Yes ascended armor made things easier. Elite specializations make them easier. But if you’re not getting better, that’s an issue, because most people do get better as they practice stuff It’s sort of normal.
The first time I did SAB tribulation mode I thought I’ll never be able to do this again. Then I did it again a lot faster. Why? Because I learned. I got better. If you’re not getting better, or more likely if you refuse to get better, that’s not really the fault of the game.
And yes the zones get easier to navigate as you unlock masteries. That’s absolutely true. The playerbase of this game asked for horizontal progression instead of vertical progress. And that’s what Anet delivered.
@Indigo Sundown
In regards to HoT being so unpopulated that you won’t be able to do hero points, with the mega server technology that’s pretty unlikely to happen at least not for many years.
I don’t know how many people are playing this game at any instant, but even old servers (before the game was free to play) usually had people to help you out, no matter what time I was playing. If I tagged up and used map chat, I’d get people. Anywhere any time, almost all the time. Maybe on a rare occasion I wouldn’t …but the next time I would anyway.
Out of all the people playing at any given time, are we assuming people won’t be running the HoT zones at all?
I mean hell there’s an entire guild dedicated to running Dry Top.
If the need is there, guilds will form for that too.
And in a worst case scenario you can make a friend or join a guild. I can’t think of any point in any map I can’t three man.
As long as you don’t mind broken promises and major grinds then you’ll love HoT
What you mean 3 broken “promises” (people really need to learn what that word actually means) vs the hundreds of kept promises.
The grind that been significantly adjusted in the last patch.
Okay then.
now that’s funny
I know! That guy has the best GW2 jokes ever. <3
The truth will set you free. People who are claiming Anet broke many and numerous promises (most of which weren’t promises anyway) are simple wrong. People who say that the grind hasn’t been significantly affected have obviously not bothered trying the expansion after the big April patch.
The difference is night and day (no pun intended).
Open world maps should be just that, open world.
Not sure why you think they aren’t
Areas of map blocked by ‘Vines’ reliant on map meta to proceed is why.and if its blocked by a vine, for any reason, then its not OPEN, is it?
And yet other parts of the game prior to this are blocked by things, and people didn’t say much. There’s a waypoint in the Silverwastes you can’t get to, because it’s blocked by a gate, until an event is done.
There’s a jumping puzzle in Caledon Forest blocked by an event as well.
Yes no one said that the area under the Silverwastes isn’t the open world.
There were plenty of hero points that you couldn’t get unless you could stealth in untaken temples when the game launched.
And there’s an area in Metrica you can’t explore without doing an event either.
Twice this week I was ported into dragon stand at the very end of the meta event by a guildy and just did the last boss fight. You don’t have to do the entire meta event. It’s the luck of the draw though.
No real comments about the rest of your post though.
I guarantee you, just from knowing how Anet works, that the new expansion will nothing at all like HoT. Anet has always been hyper-reactive to crticism. Always.
I can’t speak to that. However, lest we miss who is pulling on the puppet strings and who is dancing, note that NCSOFT announces to investors that they need another expansion, and ANET shelves the popular Legendary crafting indefinitely and moves the people to the expansion, to speed it up.
But you ignore that fact that NcSoft has been claiming an expansion was coming soon since the first report after Guild Wars 2 launched. You have a data point of 1 and your’e trying to draw conclusions from it.
NcSoft has always said an expansion was coming even when Anet didn’t say it and wasn’t actively working on it.
From past experience with the company, I don’t think NcSoft has too much control over Anet. For example, for ages, people said the reason Anet had their silence policy was due to NcSoft. Yet NcSoft owned Wildstar too and they didn’t have a silence policy.
No, I think that Anet would have done this anyway, as a response to the vocally negative reaction to the first expansion and the fact that it didn’t meet expectations.
The funny bit it, the same thing happened to my wife with carrots or something like it and it turned out, she already had what she needed on another character, but didn’t realize she’d gotten it…once you get it you don’t get it again.
If you put as much time in it as you have it’s either a bug, or you already have it.
But I’m not sure why anyone should care if you uninstall or not. While I can understand you’re frustrated, you’re just one tiny player in a sea of players. People leave games all the time, even popular games.
Play in Orr. The difficulty jumped when you reached that map. you also saw it in Silverwastes. There was a progression from a map like Queensdale to a map like Tangled Depths. It just wasn’t a forced, linear path.
Yeah Orr at launch was hell. It made HoT look like a walk in the park. The silverwastes was hard the first time you walked in there. Not too bad, but a nice little challenge.
and how did that work out?
they had to nerf it twice, and its still one of the most unpopular maps
I’d love to see some evidence that it’s one of the most unpopular maps. I don’t think that was ever the case. Still plenty of people running around Orr.
The complaints about HoT will be addressed in the next expansion, just because that’s what Anet does. I’d be surprised if we saw verticality like HoT or meta events like HoT or anything else like HoT in the next expansion.
I’ve now got this brilliant vision of an expansion that is the exact opposite of HoT, which is bought by all the folks who love HoT, because they are currently happy players but who will not like XP2 and which is boycotted by all the folks who dislike HoT, because they’ve been bitten once but who would like XP2 if only they had bought it.
It doesn’t bode well! ;p
Surely the solution is to cater for the full range of skill levels and taste and hardcore-ness.
It’s not that simple. I really enjoy HoT, but I’ve also had enough HoTness for the time being. I like other things about the game as well. Just because you enjoy HoT doesn’t mean you don’t enjoy the core game.
I think Anet should just use moderation. Not swing desperately from one place to another.
Meta events are good – meta event on a tight schedule are bad.
SW meta event model works – but of course they can’t have one good thing and leave it – they need to “iterate and improve” it until it’s broken.
Meta events are type of content, but some players want more freedom. The original maps didn’t have a consuming meta event like SW and, though a lot of people like SW, a lot of people prefer the freedom of freely exploring and finding random stuff, instead of everything focused.
We now have five maps (six if you count Dry Top) of what are basically map wide metas. I’d personally like to see some maps that are more sandboxy and less themeparky.
I agree that Anet shouldn’t make such drastic changes, but I don’t suspect that will stop it.
I agree with this. Destroying stuff just feels bad.
From the conference call.
<snip>
Thanks for posting this.
Per my post, directly above yours, note that they did not mention as lessons learned the lack of new PVP content, the Hot maps being too hard or too few, the mobs hitting too hard, WVW maps being changed, the Master of Monuments being broken (twice) after working for years, the loot being the same as always, the price being too high, no free character slots, or any of the literally dozens of other things listed in this thread as suggestions of what they probably learned. I.e. no in game fine grained details were discussed at all. It’s finance people talking to investors, not gamers to gamers.
Like I said, it’s about revenue expectations not being met by HoT.
Their fix? Have another expansion sale in 2016 to get more revenue. Likely at the same price, same size, same freebies, etc. They moved devs from Legendary development to expansion development to make it happen this CY.
Exactly what I said they would say. I’ve been to a hundred of those, at least.
I guarantee you, just from knowing how Anet works, that the new expansion will nothing at all like HoT. Anet has always been hyper-reactive to crticism. Always.
Prophecies came out and people complained it was too long and too slow. Factions came out and it was half the size, half the missions, and lightning fast to level to max level.
Nightfall came out and the penduluum swung back.
Guild Wars 2 comes out and people complain the game is too easy. The result is HoT. Everything stepped up a notch to handle the complaints. To try to fill the gap.
The complaints about HoT will be addressed in the next expansion, just because that’s what Anet does. I’d be surprised if we saw verticality like HoT or meta events like HoT or anything else like HoT in the next expansion.
That’s one definition. It’s not what Vayne was saying though. He was using the other definition, whether or not the two two games will end simultaneously. That’s what one you ’re not understanding. Not how long each lasted in years, but the simultaneous ending.
But whatever. Maybe one day you will understand that there are two definitions to outlast and he meant the other definition.Regardless of which definition that is choosen they both have to do with length of time. The reason why you are able say that the pyraminds outlasted the civilization is because the pyraminds time of existance exceeded the time of existance of the civilization. Had both the civilization and pyraminds cease to exist at the same time, you would * NOT* be able to claim that the pyraminds outlasted the civilization.
No one in their right mind would remotely suggest that a 25 year old person who died in 1994 outlasted a 90 year old who died in 1993 merely on the basis that the date of death nor would they suggest that they lasted the same if they died at the same exact time.
If the gw1 game that was originally hosted on gw1 servers is now being hosted on gw2 servers it is possible that they could switch again to a new server as long as there is a profit over the cost
Maybe one Gw2 blinders will accidently get bumped off…
You’re still working on definition one, not definition two. Definition two has nothing to do with how long either game has been going on. It has nothing to do with Guild Wars 1 having been made years before Guild Wars 2. It has nothing to do with years of existence at all
I suggest you talk to an English teacher and show them this thread and have them explain it to you.
Definition 2 : to live longer than; outlive.
So you would say 25 year old person who died in 1994 outlasted a 90 year old who died in 1993? Or if we were in underwater breathing contest where i started 1 minute after, had overall shorter duration of a breath hold but you came up for air than I would have outlasted you because the starting point doesn’t matter. LOL thats choice. Whatever helps keep those gw2 blinders on I suppose.
We’d then have to talk about the definition of life, since Guild Wars 1 is on life support and, perhaps, only remains open because it piggybacks on Guild Wars 2’s servers. Since you have no evidence that the game would still be alive at all at this point and it’s just existing piggybacked onto this game, your point lacks relevance.
That game may indeed run more years than this game. But if it’s running on life support, is it really still living? lol
I’m thinking that if you are having more fun arguing semantics on a gaming forum than you are having playing the game then maybe….
Anyhow, of course it’s a sequel. It’s got a “2” in the title.
/thread
I answer forum posts during load screens. I hate load screens. lol
Echo the problem is the definition you’re using is meaningless. Obviously something that comes first will be older than something that comes later, but that’s not what the tone of your posts imply. Saying Guild Wars 1 is ahead of Guild Wars 2 in age is a meaningless statement within the context of the previous argument.
Of course the first game in a series is older than later games. But your tone implies ahead to be more than just ahead in time. It implies something other since we’re comparing the merits of the two games in this thread.
By your definition it would be impossible for a later game to be ahead of an earlier game, with any game. I guess I have to ask how that’s relevant to this conversation?
It’s rather like saying water is wet.
If they would lose the mastery points and let filling the mastery bar with experience unlock the mastery, HoT would have been much better. This horizontal progression is nothing like leveling to 80. When you level to 80 you can choose which content you want to play in pve. HoT leveling funnels you into “Mastery points” therefore stifling a players choice to play content they enjoy.
HoT is all about preparing to have fun
The amount of mastery points you need to unlock the necessary points are minimal… like a few. Now considering you get one for jut doing the story which unlocks gliding. That leaves about 4 other points that you NEED.
Most of those are just communes in VB just like anything else. But it’s even easier that that.
If you play the story you get one. That allows you to unlock gliding. Gliding gives you the ability to continue the story. That unlocks another point which gives you mushroom jumping.
The mushroom jumping allows you to finish another story which puts you in pretty good nick to get updraft use, which takes you most of the way.
There are two commune mastery points, just communes in the very beginning of VB which gets you enough points to level updraft use which takes you furhter into the story which gets you more mastery points.
Yes, as you go higher, you need more and that becomes more and more challenging, which is the progression aspect. You don’t really need much more than that.
And one of the earliest advetures is absolutely the easiest adventure of all of them which takes minutes and gives you another two mastery points.
You’re talking about something that takes relatively little time when compared to leveling in other games.
I love playing GW2 core. Its a masterpiece in many ways.
In HOT my typical experience is:
1) need mastery and hero points
2) find some on map i dont have yet
3) get killed on way to new spot
(Or killled when i get there)I feel like a big chicken as i dash and run away from mobs
Only to get swarmed and eaten by a bunch of baby raptors.What am i doing wrong? Does anybody find this fun?
Any advice would be appreciated as id like to enjoy hot.
Thanks
GfSo you dont like progression? Im sorry but it doesnt sound like rpgs are your cup of tea, I love those aspects of the game. Im only talking about your concern masteries and exploration.
a normal RPG would give the player the tools , to play the content
earning the rights, to play the content, is simply content stretching
thats a bad thingHow do you not have the tools? He said he doesnt like the masteries and sense of unlocking therefore, that tells they dont like a sense of progression which what is an rpg, you have the lfg tool, just because you cannot solo everything doesnt mean you dont have the tools:)
Im not trying to be rude its just how this sounds to me.
of course i like progression, but in this case, the annoyance is simply too much , to get the progression
much of the map is simply unavailable, unless you have all the relevant masteries
and, you can only GET those masteries, by playing on those maps
this is bad design, and the first nerf showed us how it was received by the majority of players
later they will nerf it even more, but it wont help much
imagine the waiters at a restaurant started hiding the chairs, and then told you to
“sit down and enjoy your meal”
i pay for entertainment..not annoyanceActually, these maps are big and most events are doable without masteries in like VB, while exploring the map and doing Events and event chains while exploring will give enough EXP to continue to the places you can’t reach. Unless you run around avoid events and enemies you should not have been able to explore the map that you can explore without masteries without getting enough masteries to get to note places. Now the tricky part is to choose what mastery you want to learn. If you wanna max out gliding before anything else then you are doing it very wrong.
and thats the problem, i really hate events, so i dont do them
like i said, i like progression, but not for any price
BTW , if players really like some content, they will do it, regardless of the reward
much of the later content is purely reward based= its BAD content
proof? try nerfing the rewards, and see how many players will stayYou hate events? Is it just me or do you just not make much sense in this thread, events are a huge part of pve, and hot was for mostly pve, do you prefer hearts to level in pve then? And how is it bad design to earn stuff from those maps? Are you not doing the story line in hot or something?
This is why I question if you like rpgs, take for example some of the elder scrolls games, you needed to explore certain areas to find items, there are plenty of rpgs out there where you have static items until you unlock the area and explore it, in fact id say more then half the rpgs out there are like this. Its fine if you dont like rpgs or prefer them a certain way but dont call it bad design just because it isnt your prefrence.
WTH? should i adjust my opinion to YOUR preferences?
“bad design” is opinion , when its from one person
when metrics show the same, its not opinion, its a FACT
single player RPGs become stale very fast to me, i did dragon age a couple of times
didnt do ES, i dont like the artstyleNo I didnt say that at all but your complaining about rpg elements when clearly this is an mmorpg, im sorry if this sounds rude but its no ones else’s fault you didnt research the game before you bought it based on your prefrences or maybe you did and it just appeared different to you from reviews or whatever you may have watched and read.
I didnt say anything about these being mine either but these prefrences are standards in rpgs that was my point. Also you said it was a bad design when in fact it isnt, it may be a bad design in your opinion but thats because you dont prefer these kind of rpg elements therefor you where not clear and simply stating its bad design.
yep, i clearly hate RPGS
played wow for roughly 5 years, since vanilla, bought and played all the expansions
i have over 20 characters in this game too
aion, FF14, STO, LOTRO , i at least tried most of the big mmos
currently im mostly raiding in DCUO
hell, i even bought, and played the division, and i really suck at shooters
and im telling you: this expansion is nowhere near the core game
it might as well be a different gameI dont think you understand what I said originally in every single one of those mmorpgs you still have to get certain gear and things before you can access certain content, that is essentially the same thing behind mastery unlocks or any real rpg element for that matter.
oh, i understand completely
do A to get B, thats how these games work
the problem here, is that A is overwhelming, and B is the opposite
its always bad for a game, when the player thinks" why the hell am i doing this?"
when progression gets too hard , or slow, most players dont research, or"git gud"
they just log on to an easier gameHow is a more overwhelming in this mmo compared to those others? Thats just not true, you do know masteries are account bound right?
i know..do YOU know, what those masteries are needed for?
to unlock the "open world " of maguma jungle…that i had to pay for in the first place
this is the way of a F2P mmo, but they used it on their B2P expansion
this will bite them, when the next expansion comes out
no matter how good it is, it will sell even worse, than hot did
It’s not going to bite them. It’s called progression. Only a small percentage of the masteries are required to unlock the zones and those go pretty fast. You don’t need most of them. The most important ones, arguably are the lowest ones. The rest you can do at your leisure.
And the way of the free to play MMO isn’t to gate of content. The way of the free to play MMO is to gate of content for extra pay. This is different.
Most games make you level to get to the content, and this isn’t really that much different. That is to say, in most MMOs, you can’t access content until you go through something else. WoW is like that. Every MMO I can think of is like that.
The only difference here is that your stats don’t go up when you do it. But I don’t understand how this is different than leveling in other MMOs when expansions come out, so I have no clue why you think there’d be a backlash.
In fact, in most MMOs it’s even worse, because in most MMOs after you get to max level, you then have to start getting gear to progress, which is RNG based and limited to raids.
As long as you don’t mind broken promises and major grinds then you’ll love HoT
What you mean 3 broken “promises” (people really need to learn what that word actually means) vs the hundreds of kept promises.
The grind that been significantly adjusted in the last patch.
Okay then.
Watching a video to learn a raid is one thing. Watching a video to walk around…I never needed to do that in Guild Wars 2.
No it’s the same thing. You can’t do something, you watch a video. Doesn’t matter what it is you can’t do. There is no “well that is harder than this other thing”. It’s something you can’t do and there’s a video you can watch.
GW2 would be a much more boring place if the map designs hadn’t gone and done something different. It’s harder than core Tyria but it’s not that hard. I’m in the process of taking all my toons through HoT, they’ve all done VB, that feels really familiar now, half are done with AB, I probably don’t need to watch the video again when I take the next one round. Quarter are done with TD, I will probably watch the video guide again for the next one just to be more efficient with the next run. TD I’ve not mapped yet, just followed zergs.
I’m watching videos because I didn’t know the zones to start off with and I’m taking 9 zerk toons (one of each profession) round. As they get glassier.. I need to remind myself what I’m doing and how I’m doing it. Until the point I know enough.
This is the same with dungeons, raids, a new class, pvp, wvw.. anything new.
Same with builds. “I don’t know how to make this rev”.. there’s a build site. You can’t claim “I never needed a build site in GW2”.. because it’s just a tool.. use it or don’t.
There are guides to chef, weaponsmith etc. They didn’t exist when I started and I still managed to max them all out. Didn’t “need” them. Don’t “need” the HoT videos either. It’s not about need, it’s about using the tools that are there. The level 10 key farm? You can bet I referred back to that guide every time. Was never about “need”, was about making my playing experience better for me.
See this is where I disagree. There are a lot of casual players out there who don’t play to watch videos. They play to figure stuff out. I’m sort of one of those players in fact. I’d rather bang my head against something than watch a video. I’d rather work it out.
And I’m not actually complaining about the HoT zones personally, but I can see where people would find themselves terribly confused in TD. And you know, a lot of casual players probably don’t come to the forums and won’t even be aware there are videos. That’s just the nature of the beast.
The same people that are complaining they can’t solo the map most likely.
Yes there are way less people than they used to be.
That’ s why they decided to merge wvw servers.
The first impression is right in this caseThey merged WvW servers because less people are playing WvW, in combination with the fact that low ranking servers have had issues for ages because people just transferred off of them.
Trying to use WvW server merges as proof of the overall population is like saying the population of the world is shrinking because less people are living in the center of NYC.
They just moved to the suburbs dude.
So if less people are playing WvW would that not imply that there are less people in game, I know of several WvW ONLY read that ONLY guilds that have all quit the game due to the lack of WvW support, most wont come back even now, as they don’t believe it will help, come on already get the blinkers off.
Well the game went free to play so there would be more PvE players even if there were less WvW players. That is people who loved only WvW may have left, but then they never represented 50% of the population.
The thing is the game went free to play and the open world population of Tyria went up. The WvW popluation went down. Some people came back for the expansion. If you only play WvW it may look like the population has gone down. But the SPvP population may have gone up too, because of the new tournaments and the seasons. So there’s a lot more to the equation. I used this example in another thread but it applies.
People have moved out of the center of NYC and started settling in the suburbs. If you live in the center of the city the popuation is down, but that doesn’t mean the population of NY is down. It’s people shifting about.
And when Anet comes out with Living Story Season 3 they’ll be a surge in population again as there always is.
Thanks good info, Someone above said the events in Hot are bad, i disagree the events are fine if they weren’t so hard to do, they’d actually be fun..
That said the figures on all those games apart from Linage seem really low, not great not overly bad except poor Wildstar..
Either way i think NCsoft might be going into damage control from the way it came across, on all games not just GW2..
I see no real evidence that that’s the case, and I don’t know what you specifically see that gets you this idea.
To put it into perspective, Guild Wars 2 is actually roughly steady for a couple of years now. It hasn’t gone down in profits. NcSoft is saying that HoT didn’t meet sales targets and there are many reasons why that happened. One of the biggest, in my opinion, is that character slot fiasco. That was just silly. For $50 Anet should have given a character slot with the expansion.
But once the bad feelings/publicity started, before the game even launched, obviously that would heavily affect preorders. Lots of people decided to wait.
And of course a myriad of complaints followed up the launch, so that didn’t help either.
But at the end of the day, the company is fine. The only real issue right now is Wildstar, and that’s had issues for a long time now.
Look again at the GW2 Q1 Q2 etc are low HoT boosted that then its dropped again since, i’m betting it’ll drop to match last years Q1 Q2 etc.. as customers fall off HoTs high.
But this is completely normal. It happened when Guild Wars 2 launched. It happens with every game.
The first quarter when a game launches is high and then it recedes. I’m not even sure why you’d expect otherwise.
I was in the business, from the point of view of sales I can tell you most games sell 90% of all the copies they’ll ever sell in the first 90 days. This is completely normal.
Obviously MMOs are different for a lot of reasons, but the bottom line is preorders and boxs sales apply on release date. It creates a bubble. Again this is normal.
Basically this game is making more than 8 million dollars a month. That’s not hay. They’re working on another expansion, but that’s what most games do anyway. Successful games are always working on another expansion and some expansions are better received than others.
WoW’s last expansion wasnt’ well received and they lost a lot of subscribers and now they’re making another expansion. Yet I don’t see anyone thinking WoW is in any trouble.
I never said it wasn’t normal, i just predict it to fall back to last years Q1 and Q2..
I’ve never played WoW not even a trial so i have no idea what to expect with that game.
Well the point is if it’s normal, then it’s not really worth commenting on. That is to say if it does fall back to what it was a year ago, that’s fine. It’s not an issue. It doesn’t show a problem. It doesn’t show desperation.
I’ve been following MMOs for a very long time. Even games people claim are dead aren’t actually dead, though some are dying faster than others. But at the end of the day, the game is relatively healthy, in spite of the fact that the expansion didn’t sell as well as expected.
The problem with the expansion not selling well as expected, however, is an issue because people always assume they know why that’s the case. Well, the real case, in my opinion is bad publicity.
Some people claimed it was too hard and couldn’t be soloed. I know some people who held off buying it for that reason only to buy it later and find they soloed it just fine.
No the real issue is the negative publicity from so many directions at once. The combination of price, the lack of a character slot, the complaints about difficulty, the backlash from the dungeon community, the backlash from the WvW sank the chances of the game ever really getting off the ground.
The dungeon nerf is better now, far less complaints. Less complaints about fractals. Les complaints about WvW and after all is said and done it doesnt’ matter, because the sales window has passed. It’s not longer a new game and the initial surge can never be repeated.
In the future Anet has a lot of work to do with expansions. Being fairer to veterans, while still offering incentives to new players, not nerfing anything significant that was churning along to bring extra bad publicity like the dungeon nerf, managing expectations so people don’t think they’re getting more than they’re getting, and perhaps pricing the expansion more along the lines with what you’d expect for the amount of content.
At the end of the day, Anet has it’s work cut out for them. Let’s hope people who like the game won’t just on the torch and pitchfork road before launch or the same thing will just happen again.
The 10% or so of the expansion content that wasn’t delivered, for the most part, remains undelivered. It’s not 50% by any stint of the imagination.
The second raid wing is out. Legendary back pieces are out, but legendary armor is not. There are only 4 legendary weapons and the rest have been put on hold indefinitely.
Might be misremembering but I’m pretty sure I’ve seen videos (probably Dulfy.. but if not then just YouTube Tangled Depths) of TD being done in a single run in about 40 minutes.
The path through a maze isn’t that difficult when you’ve got a video guide.It’s not really about completing the map though. It’s about when you’re in one place and someone says there’s an event up, and even though you can clearly see the commander tag, you can’t figure out how to get to it.
The map is in sections. If there’s an event going on, it’s happening in or around a waypoint. Rata Novus events take place in Rata Novus for instance. Once you’ve followed the video and opened the map it’s simple to get to the waypoint where the event is happening.
And the same thing can be said in core Tyria maps. I’ve been on many an Orr map, especially now people have insta-80s and they ask how to get to Grenth. In Silverwastes and Dry Top people are always asking how to get somewhere.
Familiarity plays a large part in getting round any map. HoT maps require a bit more work but in my opinion that’s what the videos are for, they’re a tool players can use to help themselves out.
If they can’t be bothered and I’m only partly judging people who don’t want to help themselves then when the shout goes up that the Skelk is up, ask in mapchat, “how do I get to that” and someone will say “Great Tree, go down and round” or whatever. If you can’t watch a video and can’t follow the in-map instructions then HoT isn’t the only place you’re having trouble with.
I’ve spent a lot of time in TD and I still get confused about how to get to certain places. The degree of difficulty in navigating Tyria is greater by far than the degree of skill you need to navigate Orr. Or has a few hidden areas, but most of them are on the same level. TD is different.
As for the video, I absolutely believe that you shouldn’t have to watch a video just to get around a zone. It’s nice that some people like that sort of thing, but it’s not for everyone. Watching a video to learn a raid is one thing. Watching a video to walk around…I never needed to do that in Guild Wars 2.
Lineage 2 has been called the WoW of Korea, which has a huge number of MMO gamers. Again, in this market, it failed.
Guild Wars 2 is in this market. It competes with games in this market. If you want to compare Asian MMO to US MMO go right ahead.
But you did say GW 1 is ahead of Guild Wars 2 and I’m not sure what that means if you didn’t mean it sold more. Because I can’t think of any way it’s ahead.
LOL you were just boasting about sales in china
And that doesn’t even count the million from China. So five million on the two launches.
So now your saying those sales are irrevelent because its kitten mmo? Seems rather silly to reduce playerbases to regions, unless of course you’re just trying to be disparaging. Lineage 1 was not a hit in NA so they cut those servers, lineage 2 however is open occess.
But you did say GW 1 is ahead of Guild Wars 2 and I’m not sure what that means if you didn’t mean it sold more. Because I can’t think of any way it’s ahead.
Anyone who thinks that Guild Wars 1 will outlast Guild Wars 2 somehow is dreaming.
Gw1 has 7 years on gw2, if they both shut down at the same time gw1 would have still outlasted gw2.
First all all, games are more popular in regions for a reason. If a game is more popular in China for example, it’ll have more players than anyone else because China has more people than anyone else. Probably the same for a place like India. Your refusal to see that eastern and western MMOs have always followed different rules doesn’t really help your argument.
If you look at US and EU sales right now, you’ll that that Guild Wars 2 takes in more money in those regions, being more popular in those regions than Blade and Soul. By the same token, Lineage, which couldn’t make it in the west, is the most popular MMO in Korea. But being as I don’t live in Korea, it doesn’t make that much difference to me.
I’m interested in how MMOs do in the west, because I have no interest in Eastern MMOs. They don’t cater to the type of play style that the western player tends to enjoy, hence the long string of failures of eastern MMO’s coming here.
If you want to argue a game is doing better because it’s doing better in China, that’s fine. You can argue that. It simple doesn’t matter to me. Again because I don’t live in China.
Suppose for example, Guild Wars 2 did great in China but lousy here? Well if that were the case, I’d have less people to play with and the game would be more likely to close down for me, just as Lineage did.
But that’s the real thing. If people are saying the game is dying, but in the region I’m playing it it’s doing well for the region, then the game isn’t dying in this region. The region I’m playing in. The region in which I have to find people to play with. The region ion which I have to build my guild.
I’m sure all the people who played and enjoyed Lineage in the US are madly happy it’s doing well in Korea. But that didn’t stop them from having to find another game.
Yes there are way less people than they used to be.
That’ s why they decided to merge wvw servers.
The first impression is right in this case
They merged WvW servers because less people are playing WvW, in combination with the fact that low ranking servers have had issues for ages because people just transferred off of them.
Trying to use WvW server merges as proof of the overall population is like saying the population of the world is shrinking because less people are living in the center of NYC.
They just moved to the suburbs dude.
I thought it was going to be too hard too. So I didn’t buy the expac and I certainly wasn’t going to pre-purchase it.
I’ve been in it about oh, two months now and I’m really enjoying it. I heard there was a patch that made things easier but I’m too much of a n00b to notice. What I can say is, it’s all a learning curve. As has been said, you can’t just stand and tank like
you used to – builds, gaining MP’s and HP’s… experiment until you find a thing that works..As for the raptors, yes I got surprised once. Now my pet takes the brunt of ’em while I hail billions of arrows down on them from a distance. Works for me.
The patch made various things easier but it didn’t make any changes to the combat. It was more to do with currency acquisition, rewards in general and time commitment.
Almost true. Except that certain events were added that were just veteran events and certain champion events were turned into veteran events that can be easily soloed. And in some areas, the enemy population with thinned out making it easier to traverse those areas for a solo player. I’d definitely say those have to do with combat. They certainly make survival easier.
^^ That’s a load of nonsense. Just because you don’t like HoT doesn’t mean the maps were clearly made for the minority of players. Your sensationalism does not make the impact you think it does.
You and the poster you responding to don’t seem to get it; I got this tingling intuition that Anet did not design the maps to be ‘very solo friendly’ in the first place. In fact, I know so, otherwise they would not used the word ‘challenging’ to describe the expansion in the first place.
yep, and that backfired on them
note, that the very first thing they did after launch, was a massive nerf to the new zones
they wouldnt do that, if they had a good, or even mediocre feedback
this isnt a hot dog stand , they need 100.000s of players
PAYING players
a few full instances wont cover thatNothing backfired on them. The new zones were not designed for a minority of players. That makes no sense.
The problem is that you have four maps with nearly identical core design.
Get groups, do meta. If you want to do something other than the meta, that’s unfortunate. You have the solo story quests and then you’re done. That’s it, that’s all she wrote.
This leads to two problems: First, the content will inevitably need to be nerfed into oblivion at some point because people will get tired of it, and unlike with, say, the ruins of Orr, you can’t just negotiate around it. If you want those Maguuma masteries and hero points you don’t have many other choices- granted, you can complete the hero points through WvW, but that’s its own ball of yarn.
The second? If you don’t like chasing giant orgies of players around doing group content, there’s not much you can do. In the original game you had other choices, and multiplayer content of varying scale. Heart of Thorns doesn’t do this, and it goes out of it’s way to punish players who would prefer something a bit more casual. And I don’t even mean in that, “condescendingly easy” sense either.
I must be doing something wrong, because I go through these maps solo or with my wife and often avoid the meta.
I gather, work on achievements, or zone completion. If I run into an HP I can’t do solo, I put something in map chat and usually people show up. The mega server, even though it’s not working correctly, will be fixed at some point, so you’ll only need enough people to fill a single zone. The zones won’t have to be nerfed, any more than the silverwastes or Dry Top have had to be nerfed.
It’s only about the meta because that’s what you believe. But once you have crowbars (I have more than a stack) you can go on a chest run, just like the silverwastes in VB. If you have currency from the zones, you can buy machetes and go open chests in DS. You can do the same in all four zones.
You can play adventures, which some people seem to like. You can just farm mats, just like anywhere else in the game.
I’ve done the TD meta maybe have a dozen times, but I enjoy the quest chains and yes, most of them can be done with a couple of people and a lot of events can even be done solo.
People are blinded by the meta.
I suggest you look at the earning reports of Guild Wars 1 and Guild Wars 2 currently. Guild Wars 1 will shut down if the Guild Wars 2 server shuts down. Guild Wars 2 is still making 8 million dollars a month. Guild Wars 1 isn’t even in the thought process anymore.
Anyone who thinks that Guild Wars 1 will outlast Guild Wars 2 somehow is dreaming. Anet said they’re hosting the game on the Guild Wars 2 servers. If those servers shut, Guild Wars 1 goes with it.
LMFAO its almost saddening some can blinded by their fanaticism…..but it’s just too funny.
Ok we’ll play the which will last longer game… ready…set….go…..and gw1 is in the lead.
oh you weren’t ready? no problem we’ll start again ready….set…go….and gw1 is in the lead.Whoops you had an major oversight that gw1 was around 7 years prior to gw2, Gw2 will never outlast gw1 especially since its automated running on minimal cost.
8 million NO WAY!!!!! boy they’ll sure have the rest of those new legendaries developed in no time…. oh wait they pulled everyone in an effort to save the diaster of an expac. XD
Guild Wars 1 is in the lead how? I mean maybe in your imagination, but it’s by no means in the lead.
Guild Wars sales weren’t predicated on everyone who just bought the first game. If you bought all four Guild Wars 1 products, you bought Guild Wars 1 four times. That means that if half the people playing bought all the content, Guild Wars 1 would have far less sales than you think.
Guild Wars 2 had four million preorders. And that doesn’t even count the million from China. So five million on the two launches.
Guild Wars 1 is not ahead on sales and while we’re on this topic, tell me. NcSoft just released it’s sales figures for the quarter. Where was Guild Wars 1 even LISTED?
If it was doing so well why wasn’t it listed in the quarterly reports?
LOL Are you sure i’m the one thats imaginating? At what point in any of our conversions in this thread did I remotely suggest that gw1 outsold gw2? please by all means quote it for easy ref because I don’t see it.
You mean point out the others category? there it is row 15 “others”.
I did throughly enjoy looking at that report though, Lineage a game almost as old as gw1 just absolutley DOMINATING each quater!!!!! I mean they shut down the na servers from lack of active players but yet still pulling in those numbers.
Just as interesting had there not been an hot expac gw2 would of had roughly the same numbers are aoin and lineage 2 ( other games almost as old as gw1)
If you want to call 3 completely standalone games 1 than by all means what ever fills your boat. I should point out that, yet again, you made an oversight. At the time of gw1 release they had to compete agianst WOW in its’ prime, whereas years later gw2 was released against what a now stale WOW that was now bleeding players. Obvisously a product is going to do better when there is a lack of competition in the market but had gw2 had to go against a game that did the same kind of feat that WOW did, would doubt that gw2 would be in the same position as it is due to costs.
You should take note in those b+s numbers as well as those are just the games that fall under ncsoft name …… just saying
Lineage 2 has been called the WoW of Korea, which has a huge number of MMO gamers. Again, in this market, it failed.
Guild Wars 2 is in this market. It competes with games in this market. If you want to compare Asian MMO to US MMO go right ahead.
But you did say GW 1 is ahead of Guild Wars 2 and I’m not sure what that means if you didn’t mean it sold more. Because I can’t think of any way it’s ahead.
Thanks good info, Someone above said the events in Hot are bad, i disagree the events are fine if they weren’t so hard to do, they’d actually be fun..
That said the figures on all those games apart from Linage seem really low, not great not overly bad except poor Wildstar..
Either way i think NCsoft might be going into damage control from the way it came across, on all games not just GW2..
I see no real evidence that that’s the case, and I don’t know what you specifically see that gets you this idea.
To put it into perspective, Guild Wars 2 is actually roughly steady for a couple of years now. It hasn’t gone down in profits. NcSoft is saying that HoT didn’t meet sales targets and there are many reasons why that happened. One of the biggest, in my opinion, is that character slot fiasco. That was just silly. For $50 Anet should have given a character slot with the expansion.
But once the bad feelings/publicity started, before the game even launched, obviously that would heavily affect preorders. Lots of people decided to wait.
And of course a myriad of complaints followed up the launch, so that didn’t help either.
But at the end of the day, the company is fine. The only real issue right now is Wildstar, and that’s had issues for a long time now.
Look again at the GW2 Q1 Q2 etc are low HoT boosted that then its dropped again since, i’m betting it’ll drop to match last years Q1 Q2 etc.. as customers fall off HoTs high.
But this is completely normal. It happened when Guild Wars 2 launched. It happens with every game.
The first quarter when a game launches is high and then it recedes. I’m not even sure why you’d expect otherwise.
I was in the business, from the point of view of sales I can tell you most games sell 90% of all the copies they’ll ever sell in the first 90 days. This is completely normal.
Obviously MMOs are different for a lot of reasons, but the bottom line is preorders and boxs sales apply on release date. It creates a bubble. Again this is normal.
Basically this game is making more than 8 million dollars a month. That’s not hay. They’re working on another expansion, but that’s what most games do anyway. Successful games are always working on another expansion and some expansions are better received than others.
WoW’s last expansion wasnt’ well received and they lost a lot of subscribers and now they’re making another expansion. Yet I don’t see anyone thinking WoW is in any trouble.
^^ That’s a load of nonsense. Just because you don’t like HoT doesn’t mean the maps were clearly made for the minority of players. Your sensationalism does not make the impact you think it does.
You and the poster you responding to don’t seem to get it; I got this tingling intuition that Anet did not design the maps to be ‘very solo friendly’ in the first place. In fact, I know so, otherwise they would not used the word ‘challenging’ to describe the expansion in the first place.
yep, and that backfired on them
note, that the very first thing they did after launch, was a massive nerf to the new zones
they wouldnt do that, if they had a good, or even mediocre feedback
this isnt a hot dog stand , they need 100.000s of players
PAYING players
a few full instances wont cover that
I don’t know why you think the nerf was massive. It really wasn’t. It was a relatively small nerf. Yeah a few guys that were champs got changed to vets, but most of the stuff wasn’t actually nerfed.
Thanks good info, Someone above said the events in Hot are bad, i disagree the events are fine if they weren’t so hard to do, they’d actually be fun..
That said the figures on all those games apart from Linage seem really low, not great not overly bad except poor Wildstar..
Either way i think NCsoft might be going into damage control from the way it came across, on all games not just GW2..
I see no real evidence that that’s the case, and I don’t know what you specifically see that gets you this idea.
To put it into perspective, Guild Wars 2 is actually roughly steady for a couple of years now. It hasn’t gone down in profits. NcSoft is saying that HoT didn’t meet sales targets and there are many reasons why that happened. One of the biggest, in my opinion, is that character slot fiasco. That was just silly. For $50 Anet should have given a character slot with the expansion.
But once the bad feelings/publicity started, before the game even launched, obviously that would heavily affect preorders. Lots of people decided to wait.
And of course a myriad of complaints followed up the launch, so that didn’t help either.
But at the end of the day, the company is fine. The only real issue right now is Wildstar, and that’s had issues for a long time now.
I suggest you look at the earning reports of Guild Wars 1 and Guild Wars 2 currently. Guild Wars 1 will shut down if the Guild Wars 2 server shuts down. Guild Wars 2 is still making 8 million dollars a month. Guild Wars 1 isn’t even in the thought process anymore.
Anyone who thinks that Guild Wars 1 will outlast Guild Wars 2 somehow is dreaming. Anet said they’re hosting the game on the Guild Wars 2 servers. If those servers shut, Guild Wars 1 goes with it.
LMFAO its almost saddening some can blinded by their fanaticism…..but it’s just too funny.
Ok we’ll play the which will last longer game… ready…set….go…..and gw1 is in the lead.
oh you weren’t ready? no problem we’ll start again ready….set…go….and gw1 is in the lead.Whoops you had an major oversight that gw1 was around 7 years prior to gw2, Gw2 will never outlast gw1 especially since its automated running on minimal cost.
8 million NO WAY!!!!! boy they’ll sure have the rest of those new legendaries developed in no time…. oh wait they pulled everyone in an effort to save the diaster of an expac. XD
Guild Wars 1 is in the lead how? I mean maybe in your imagination, but it’s by no means in the lead.
Guild Wars sales weren’t predicated on everyone who just bought the first game. If you bought all four Guild Wars 1 products, you bought Guild Wars 1 four times. That means that if half the people playing bought all the content, Guild Wars 1 would have far less sales than you think.
Guild Wars 2 had four million preorders. And that doesn’t even count the million from China. So five million on the two launches.
Guild Wars 1 is not ahead on sales and while we’re on this topic, tell me. NcSoft just released it’s sales figures for the quarter. Where was Guild Wars 1 even LISTED?
If it was doing so well why wasn’t it listed in the quarterly reports?
You must have been as good of a Gw1 player as you are a gw2!!!
Or the way that the creatures in Guild Wars 2 walked in packs that were comprised of different professions, including healers. Again, easy to do, you know there are going to be 8 people even if some of them are AI. But not so easy to do in an MMO where the person who’s coming upon them might be alone and might not be up to that kind of challenge.
Gw1 DID have mixed profession roaming packs, you’d know the pleasure of running around the map looking for that last pack for an hour while vanqing. They also used popup adds as a workaround for server limitations.
Gw2 scaling adjustments LOL!!! You mean how they tuned down difficulty so that the average player that hasn’t quite learned how to dodge yet can survive anything? I guess be thankful 49 other players are with you to facetank damage to evenually win….. oh wait the new thing is to just afk farm the challanging bits. GGWP
Gw2 will shutdown before gw1. The cost of keeping gw1 is a fraction of what it cost to keep gw2 up.
They’ll shut down at the same time, since Guild Wars 1 is only run on Guild Wars 2 servers and has been in maintenance most for years.
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You do realize that Anet is a subsidiary of ncsoft right? and that they have other released games…..shutting down gw2 won’t necessary equal shutting down gw1 if the cost is minimal and still produces a slight income.[/quote]
I suggest you look at the earning reports of Guild Wars 1 and Guild Wars 2 currently. Guild Wars 1 will shut down if the Guild Wars 2 server shuts down. Guild Wars 2 is still making 8 million dollars a month. Guild Wars 1 isn’t even in the thought process anymore.
Anyone who thinks that Guild Wars 1 will outlast Guild Wars 2 somehow is dreaming. Anet said they’re hosting the game on the Guild Wars 2 servers. If those servers shut, Guild Wars 1 goes with it.
what??
Black Desert and Blade and Soul are dead already??
I thought black desert is doing pretty good…
This, neither game is dead. Blade and Soul in the US and Europe did about 20 billion WON, which is about a third less than Guild Wars 2 did in those regions. However, it’s coming out in Russia soon and did 50 billion WON across all the territories it’s launched in.
second expansion as soon as possible which means q3 or q4 2017 in my opinion.
gw2 still doing fine and things will get better with LW/LS back next update.
wildstar goodby.
blade and soul doing much better than gw2 for now but i think the revenue will drop.
Actually B&S isn’t doing much better than GW 2 in Europe and the US. GW 2 about 33% more than BS and the US and Europe. Much of it’s income is from other markets. And it’s a new release here.
I played several mmorpgs for years before GW and what I loved about GW is did things in a clever way that actually really worked well. That’s really what disappointed me the most about GW2. GW2 opted to copy not only the framework of every other mmorpg, but abandon so many mechanics in the original game that were never broken. Felt like it was merely using the GW brand to create the “same old mmo” experience.
Attribute system – Wasn’t broken, so why change it for something that’s been done to death. The system most mmorpgs use is mind mindbogglingly convoluted and short-sighted and GW2 copied them? Doesn’t make sense.
Equipment system – Wasn’t broken either, and once again it just made no sense to copy how other mmorpgs do it. Other mmorpgs are either just copying what’s already been done or failing miserably at trying to come up with something else that works. And GW found a system that actually worked and was refreshing! Why change it?!
Morale system – Why not use that in the sequel? What was wrong with it?
Secondary Profession – So it was supposedly abandoned because it was hard to balance, yet GW2 is even more imbalanced. That doesn’t add up!
Capping skills – Nobody complained about it, and it was so unique. I just don’t understand.
etc, etc, etc
Whyyyyyyyy?!There’s a reason why. Because Guild Wars 1 was NOT an MMO. Even Anet said it wasn’t an MMO. And when Guild Wars 2 was conceived, it was conceived as an MMO.
Things that work in a lobby game don’t necessarily work in an MMO.
Comparing a non-MMO to an MMO is doable. I just don’t see the point of doing it.
GW2 uses the technology different than GW, but that doesn’t impact a single example in my post.
But it impacts the game as a whole. What are some of the things people say this miss from Guild Wars 1?
For one thing, heroes and henchmen, so they can solo. Easy to do in a game where you know you’re going to have 8 people doing the content and all the content will ever be seen by 8 people. Hard to do in a zone where they’re might be 50 people at one place, all with a hero using skills. The lag would be tremendous and map caps would have to be dramatically lowered.
Or the way that the creatures in Guild Wars 2 walked in packs that were comprised of different professions, including healers. Again, easy to do, you know there are going to be 8 people even if some of them are AI. But not so easy to do in an MMO where the person who’s coming upon them might be alone and might not be up to that kind of challenge.
The addition of an open world changes the entire thrust of the game on many levels. For example, the amount of time it takes to figure out how events scale (and how hard it is as shown by how many times they’ve had to make adjustments to scaling) is a huge issue.
The thing is, the open world nature takes a lot of programming time and budget, which means other things can’t be done. It affects EVERYTHING.
Did Guild Wars 1 have to be optimized for 120 people all fighting in the same place at the same time, casting spells while moving? Of course it didn’t.
The open world requires a level of optimization and attention that Guild Wars 1 never required. The addition of a Z axis also complicates things.
You may believe your list exists in a vacuum but it doesn’t. Once a game is a true MMO , coding priorities must change by necessity. That’s the way it is.
People see Guild Wars 2 as being more like other MMOs. But Guild Wars 1 was more like a coop game and they didn’t have these other things to worry about. Thus they could divide the resources they have differently.
Might be misremembering but I’m pretty sure I’ve seen videos (probably Dulfy.. but if not then just YouTube Tangled Depths) of TD being done in a single run in about 40 minutes.
The path through a maze isn’t that difficult when you’ve got a video guide.
It’s not really about completing the map though. It’s about when you’re in one place and someone says there’s an event up, and even though you can clearly see the commander tag, you can’t figure out how to get to it.
I’m flogging a dead horse but I’ll say it again, HOT maps would be very solo player friendly if they fixed Mega servers and every map was populated.
The problem is not the map design it’s the fact that (once again) the underlying system that should ensure that the game is playable is broken.
you might enjoy mazes, but i dont
even without mobs, the maps would still be hostile
they were clearly made for a minority of players
when you use the majority of resources on a minority, you wont stay in the business for long
First of all, two of the four maps aren’t maze-like at all, that’s AB and DS, so therefore, at MOST half the maps are mazes.
TD is truly maze-like but it’s not really hard to get around in VB, unless you just don’t play because you don’t like it.
So 25% of the expansion maps are maze like, which isn’t really that much. Anet has provided within those maps different experiences.
However, can you show me evidence that most players don’t like mazes? I’d be interested to see the studies.
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Gw2 will shutdown before gw1. The cost of keeping gw1 is a fraction of what it cost to keep gw2 up.[/quote]
They’ll shut down at the same time, since Guild Wars 1 is only run on Guild Wars 2 servers and has been in maintenance most for years.
Guild Wars 2 is by no means dying. Plenty of people still playing.
If you really want to play the game, you’ll eventually get HoT, because that’s how the game moves forwards. It’s the only way to get elite specializations. It’s the only way to get the new story. It’s the only way to get access to the new living story. It’s the only way to get full access to guild halls. It’s the only way to get access to the 9th profession. It’s the only way to get access to gliding. It’s the only way you can access raids.
You can play all the old content and it’s still fun. You can jump in, see if the game is for you and if it’s not, you don’t spend the money.
But anyone who hangs around for any length of time is going to end up getting HoT eventually.
nope, most will just enjoy the free part, and skip town, when theyre done
AFAIK the general conversion rate from F2P is roughly at 6%
here it will be even worse, because the core game has been down to 10 bucks
if they had bundled HoT with the core game for 40 or 50 bucks, , they could had made
a decent buck
this one will cost them a lot of players and a lot of money
Business much? Obviously games go high when they launch and then they come down. Some people buy them at launch and some people wait until they’re cheaper. GW2 is more dependent on gem store sales than boxed sales, so all they need is an influx of new players from time to time.
So when the new expansion comes out, and Anet drops the price on HoT to much cheaper, or they run a sale, people will pick up HoT too.
The company makes changes based on sales realities. That’s how business works in general.
If you think you know more about running a business than Anet..we’ll you’re entitled to think that, but I’m not so convinced.
There are tons of things companies can do to get people back to the game and it doesn’t have to work for everyone.
For example, WvW has improved and now some people have come back to play WvW, because they found it fun. SPvP will continue to have tournaments. The new season of the Living World will start probably over the summer and I’m sure people will come back for that (because that always happens).
And then a new expansion will show up, and based on what’s in that you’ll see some people buy it.
HoT had a ton of bad publicity up front, before it launched so of course it didn’t sell the copies expected. But Anet now has a bit more of an idea of what can go wrong, so they won’t repeat the same mistakes with the next expansion (one would hope). As a result, it may sell more.
You make it sound very easy, but it’s really not.
And I can’t think of many MMOs that are this successful 3.5 years from launch. Maybe Anet does know a thing or two about running a business.
If you like events, just do events that spawn near hearts. It fills the heart while you do the event. Also every time I run by a heart with something easy to do, I do one or two things. Just makes it easier later when I come back to complete the zone.
So it’s not just Heart of Thorns that is too hard now, Dante, it’s stuff that was added before Heart of Thorns.
You left the game for three years, you come back and expect the difficulty to be exactly where it was left, but that’s not really the way games work. As games progress, players who stay and play it get bored of something they can to with their eyes closed, and ask for something more.
Yes there are a couple of hard moments in the Living World Season 2. I don’t suppose you looked up a guide if you were having trouble.
I saw someone in Queensdale running forward against a wall for about 5 minutes until I left. Either someone lost their mind or a bot got derailed. :P
I’ve hit autorun and had a phone call and came back to myself running against a wall. Easy enough to do if you have to get up suddenly.
I played several mmorpgs for years before GW and what I loved about GW is did things in a clever way that actually really worked well. That’s really what disappointed me the most about GW2. GW2 opted to copy not only the framework of every other mmorpg, but abandon so many mechanics in the original game that were never broken. Felt like it was merely using the GW brand to create the “same old mmo” experience.
Attribute system – Wasn’t broken, so why change it for something that’s been done to death. The system most mmorpgs use is mind mindbogglingly convoluted and short-sighted and GW2 copied them? Doesn’t make sense.
Equipment system – Wasn’t broken either, and once again it just made no sense to copy how other mmorpgs do it. Other mmorpgs are either just copying what’s already been done or failing miserably at trying to come up with something else that works. And GW found a system that actually worked and was refreshing! Why change it?!
Morale system – Why not use that in the sequel? What was wrong with it?
Secondary Profession – So it was supposedly abandoned because it was hard to balance, yet GW2 is even more imbalanced. That doesn’t add up!
Capping skills – Nobody complained about it, and it was so unique. I just don’t understand.
etc, etc, etc
Whyyyyyyyy?!
There’s a reason why. Because Guild Wars 1 was NOT an MMO. Even Anet said it wasn’t an MMO. And when Guild Wars 2 was conceived, it was conceived as an MMO.
Things that work in a lobby game don’t necessarily work in an MMO.
Comparing a non-MMO to an MMO is doable. I just don’t see the point of doing it.
When we talk about features, since Guild Wars 1 didn’t have a trading post, a mail system, a way to truly customize guild halls, a wardrobe system, or even jumping and swimming, I’d say the OP’s viewing Guild Wars 1 through rose-colored glasses.
As far as this being like every other MMO, that’s just not true. I think the confusion here is that the OP thinks Guild Wars 1 was an MMO rather than a lobby game. A lot of the changes in Guild Wars 2 have to do with the transition to an open world, as well as a larger player base with more diverse tastes.
Guild Wars 1 was focused. It was a niche game. In some ways Guild Wars 2 is a niche game too, but it’s a much bigger niche.
They dropped the Ball, Vayne.
They snatched defeat from the Jaws of Success and became EveryMMO.
People quit playing games that had all those things you listed to Play GW. It was a gem of innovation for the times.
And still.. with all you listed, GW2 has yet to catch up with a game as old as EQ2 that has truly customizable Guild Halls.. several tiers worth, far more functional Guild Banks and management, Appearance Slots you can slot ANY armor or weapon into, and has had swimming, jumping, and underwater combat since 2005. This game doesn’t even have a configurable UI or particle effect control client side.
I would be remiss if I didn’t mention that EQ2 has flowing capes for.. 21 races.
GW2 has yet to step up to the plate on what they COULD have been.
Just because they didn’t move in the direction you wanted, doesn’t mean they dropped the ball. You’re entitled to an opinion but I’m relatively positive more people have played Guild Wars 2 than have ever played Guild Wars 1.
To me, Guild Wars 1 was a one trick pony. It was mostly about builds. That was it’s real strength. It wasn’t called build wars for nothing.
For PvPers it was probably heaven. But I was a PvEer and I couldn’t give a toss about PvP. I did a bit of it, the light stuff. But it wasn’t my thing and never will be.
Guild Wars 2 fixed a lot of problems for me that Guild Wars 1 had including an open world and the end of pathing. Those were huge for me. And I don’t think I can ever go back to playing an MMO that has static quests again.