Guild Wars 2

Dante.1508:

ProtoGunner.4953:

I don’t understand, even with a squishy zerker ele HOT is mostly faceroll. You have tons of active defense, and your dodges. Yes, you will die from time to time, but not if you pay attention. All who claim it’s unplayable solo just don’t pay attention enough.

Different players have different levels of ability, different ping times, different builds etc..

My whole game i’m fighting a 220 ping time being Aussie, it can take 2 to 3 secs for skill to pop after i press it, every skill..

Everything seems horrible delayed in this new 64bit GW2 as well for me.. If it didn’t take me 12 hours to download the game each time i switch exe files i’d go back to 32 bit in a heart beat.

This is kittening funny, solod all the HoT maps to get my elite specs with both my base guardian and BASE revenant before they nerfed things to make them easier, 2-4 days after HoT release.
What the kitten people? Same people that struggle with low level fractals?

Yes i gave up Fractals and i’m lv 7, they are far too hard for me, if that is something for people to laugh at laugh away, i personally just drag the team down, and they are constantly ressing me..

I purchased the Living Story 2, and while the story is amazingly more interesting than the first i’m dying constantly in the battles solo, its not fun for me and well i have no idea if its my 230ish ping time or what but since returning to GW2 the bar is so high i’m losing interest fast with how hard this game has become..

If you’re getting 3 second delays on every skill, it’s not that youv’e got that ping. Even when my ping from Australia is over 300, which it sometimes is, I almost never get more than a second delay and often less than that.

Not sure what your issue is, but it’s not 200 ping.

My wife and I, both in Tasmania have two manned lower level fractals. I’m not sure again what the issue is for you. I’m not even suggesting it’s a learn to play issue, but you should be able to survive low level fractals.

battledrone.8315:

Vayne.8563:

Anyone who said this hasn’t changed too much, simply isn’t paying attention. They didn’t make it so no one could have any challenge anywhere, but they did add in veteran events, they did make it so you didn’t have to do the meta to make progress in many of the collections, they did make it so that they night was decoupled from day so you’re not stuck in one map fearing to move for losing participation.

There were drastic changes to the zones, included moving the tiger and electric wyvern pet for rangers, so it wasn’t locked behind the meta.

There are people in my guild who used to have problems with those zones that have a whole lot less problems.

They can’t make the game brain dead easy all over the place because a small percentage of people don’t know how to play their professions, or don’t have exotic armor.

HoT just isn’t that difficult anymore, the except probably being some of the hero points. That said, I hardly pass a day in HoT without seeing a hero point train on each map.

those qualities could get me in a raid in other games
but here-in the casual mmo-it is needed for “open world” content?
makes total sense..not

I don’t understand what you’re trying to say here, because it’s not clear, however, this thread is about people who have a more casual play style not being able to accomplish stuff in HoT. From that one might believe they’re not raiders at all.

Right now you can accomplish quite a lot in HoT solo.

battledrone.8315:

Vayne.8563:

battledrone.8315:

Vayne.8563:

battledrone.8315:

Vayne.8563:

battledrone.8315:

Astraea.6075:

LoL NooBs.5076:

You have to be kittenting me. Patch notes say a lot of words. "Err, they must have put some great effort in this… ".
It’s missing a lot of stuff and with all the HoT changes (long overdue, I might add) it’s basically yet another kitten-you to all core players. ANet treats GW2 as if it’s something separate and inferior to HoT, whereas in reality it’s the other way around. How cheap can you get…

Core is unlikely to see much in the way of future development that isn’t related to HoT. As far as ANet are concerned, HoT is GW2 going forward until the next xpac drops.

While this may suck for those who haven’t bought HoT, there are valid reasons for why a company is reluctant to spend development resources on the “old version” of their product. I’m also unaware of any MMO that has spent significant time on developing content that wasn’t related to their most current expansion.

i know one…WoW did exactly that
every xpac from them changed the core game in some ways, that made it desirable to make a new alt, and to start the levelling process again
THAT is the reason , why wow is still the king
they keep the core game fresh and up to par with the rest of the game
and the core game is still the very first thing a potential customer will see

Wow is still king because they came out ten years ago in a barren market, charged people hundreds and hundreds of dollars in that time and so they have zillions of dollars to advertise.

When was the last time you saw a GW 2 commerical with William Shatner, or Chuck Norris or Mr. T.

Everyone always knows why WoW is a huge success…in spite of the fact that they’re losing subs so fast that they stopped reporting subscriber numbers.

wrong, it was because they opened mmos for the casual players
before that, mmos was niche, no game had over a mio players
anarchy online, ultima online, EQ1, were owning the market, until wow came to life
yes, it is dropping now..after a decade as the market leader
any dev would kill, to get that performance from their game
PS without wow, this game wouldnt even exist

And how do you think they even reached the casual audience, without advertising. WoW started development as a rich company already, due to other gaming successes. They didn’t reach all those people in a vacuum. And they didn’t get rich without investing in advertising.

You can say wrong all you want, but that doesn’t make what I’m saying wrong.

As far as whether this game would exist, there I believe you’re absolutely 100% right. This game wouldn’t have to exist if WOW wasn’t so popular and didn’t destroy and chance for originality or furthering the MMO development experience due to everyone trying to get a piece of that pie.

You may have noticed there are a whole lot of simple MMOs that never took off.

a good product, and word of mouth was the key to their success
those tv commercials only came after it was the biggest mmo by a large margin
notice how fast they dropped them again, i was a wow player back then so i saw the effects on the inside
do you remember destiny? HUGE PR budget, big title, mediocre performance

It was the biggest MMO by a large margin by being the only really professional MMO in the game. At the time they didn’t have to compete with free MMOs, or buy to play MMOs. Guild Wars 1 wasn’t an MMO and didn’t compete directly with WoW. THere were precious few people competing. Right time and right place, after which they completely destroyed the MMO market for five, six years.

You can believe anything you want, but WoW’s success was based on MANY factors, not just one or two, and timing and budget were definitely in the mix.

lol..timing and budget in always in the mix
sony had SWG running..amateurs
anarchy online…amateurs
ultima online..amateurs
ncsoft had a pretty popular game..CoX..that died a slow death, after wow launched
but, somehow, a new team comes out, and roflstomps them all
where the blizzard crew that much better. or did they just have the best product?

Most popular isn’t always best. There are plenty of popular shows on TV that are crap, but millions of people still watch them. I don’t know why it’s so hard for you to believe that advertising made a big difference.

Anyone who said this hasn’t changed too much, simply isn’t paying attention. They didn’t make it so no one could have any challenge anywhere, but they did add in veteran events, they did make it so you didn’t have to do the meta to make progress in many of the collections, they did make it so that they night was decoupled from day so you’re not stuck in one map fearing to move for losing participation.

There were drastic changes to the zones, included moving the tiger and electric wyvern pet for rangers, so it wasn’t locked behind the meta.

There are people in my guild who used to have problems with those zones that have a whole lot less problems.

They can’t make the game brain dead easy all over the place because a small percentage of people don’t know how to play their professions, or don’t have exotic armor.

HoT just isn’t that difficult anymore, the except probably being some of the hero points. That said, I hardly pass a day in HoT without seeing a hero point train on each map.

Manasa Devi.7958:

Analogy? What analogy? There is no analogy in my above post.

My number one complaint about HoT are the timers. They’re still there. You still need to log on at the exact same time as before this useless update and you still need to taxi. The metas are as inaccessible as ever.

I don’t give a rodent’s rectum about how hard or how easy it is to gather loot in HoT. I never did. There’s not a single skin in it that I want anyway.

But I don’t care anymore. I don’t expect anything anymore, it’s become blatantly obvious that this game no longer aligns with my interests.

But the rewards have been spread out so you can get them without doing the meta at all. Your complaint is actually solved. Before you needed to do the meta to progress in lots of stuff. That’s not the case anymore.

For example, if in the past someone wanted a tiger or electric wyvern for their ranger, they had to beat DS, that’s not the case. If someone wanted noxious pods, the big load at the end, they’d have to beat DS, but taht’s not the case.

So what exactly are you missing by not doing the metas now?

LoL NooBs.5076:

Vayne.8563:

Right because no one ever prorders a game to get a preorder bonus. Oh wait…

Dear Vayne, <3
We are the NooBs who say LoL. The LoL NooBs. You don’t know us, but we have been watching you. Of all the self-proclaimed “white knights” among the forum goons, you are the one who isn’t outright hostile. The one who can keep his cool in your every response. And we respect that. We regret that we were not granted the honor of being greeted by you in our very first post on these forums.

Because you are different. We have seen your noble battles against the unenlightened in other forum threads. You appear to be fair and just. You have style. Even when you say “lol” in other threads, we quietly lol (as if there is any other kind) together with you.

Regrettably, there are not many of us left with money who suffer from the hopeless delusion that when ANet promises, ANet delivers. Regardless of how many words were written. There are not many of us left whom ANet didn’t rob of the ability and will to preorder. There are not many of us left who can be tempted by any form of “Bone Us” (especially one that ANet speaks of). For, although we are NooBs and we never learn, we know too well that possessing an OP “Bone Us” doesn’t make us better players. We are NooBs. We are not proud of that. But it is who we are.

So when you say “Oh wait…”, we will wait for you, Vayne. This once. We will wait because you said to. And we will be silent. For now.

But you must understand: the NooBs’ patience with ANet runs thin with every passing hour. Therefore, in the meantime, the NooBs will have the audacity to ask that you, Vayne — the most noble and honorable of the “white knights” — consider where your own allegiances lie. <3

This is a very cute post. I really dig it.

But not everyone buys games the way fans of games buy games. I’m going to guess that more than half the people that buy Guild Wars 2 had no idea what was or wasnt’ promised. Many people are casual and doin’t follow games so closely.

How many peoiple buy this game and complain there’s no GvG, because the name of the game is Guild Wars. I’m not sure if you’re seriously contending that the small percentage of people who post here are the main group of people who buy the game. Even in the poll on here lots of people seem willing to purchase the expansion (25%?) even though Anet didn’t come through on stuff like Legendaries.

On the other hand, as I’ve said before they told is directly that they wouldn’t be added gliding to core Tyria and they ended up doing that, so not every broken “promise” is equally bad. That one worked out well for me.

However, I don’t buy games based on promises or not. I buy games based on how much fun I’m going to have with them. Do I think HoT was too expensive? I do. But you know, tickets to ball games are too expensive. Movie tickets are too expensive. A cup of coffee is too expensive. That doesn’t mean I don’t go to the movies or I don’t drink coffee. It means that things are sometimes expensive.

I buy coffee, because I love coffee, even though it’s too expensive. I enjoy it and so that value means something to me.

I could play other MMOs, but I don’t enjoy most of them, while I do enjoy this one. Most of the time anyway. So this $50 that I spent some something that gave me a couple of hundred hours of play (and I’m still playing it in fact) is definitely worth it to me. It’s much cheaper than a cup of coffee.

From the value I got from this, I’ll go out on a limb and say I’d get a similar value from a new expansion.

Now of that expansion came out and said, we’re only doing raids and that’s it, I wouldn’t buy that expansion because I have little interest in raids. However, if it lists a bunch of stuff I like the look of, yes, I’ll buy the expansion and a lot of other people will to.

If you don’t want to preorder the expansion that’s okay. But with the last patch fixing many people’s complaints, there’s certainly reason to hope.

The problem seems to be that some people think they have a grievance and everyone or most people share that grievance. But I don’t think that’s always the case, or even mostly the case.

Most people aren’t bean counters and unless they signed on for a very specific reason, like legendaries, they’re not going to bemoan the loss of legendaries.

Also some reasonable people believe making an MMO is really hard, which is why so many of them suck, and so they cut devs a bit of slack if they can’t do everything they intended. I know this is an unpopular stance, but I don’t care. It’s not a crime to be reasonable.

battledrone.8315:

Vayne.8563:

battledrone.8315:

Vayne.8563:

battledrone.8315:

Astraea.6075:

LoL NooBs.5076:

You have to be kittenting me. Patch notes say a lot of words. "Err, they must have put some great effort in this… ".
It’s missing a lot of stuff and with all the HoT changes (long overdue, I might add) it’s basically yet another kitten-you to all core players. ANet treats GW2 as if it’s something separate and inferior to HoT, whereas in reality it’s the other way around. How cheap can you get…

Core is unlikely to see much in the way of future development that isn’t related to HoT. As far as ANet are concerned, HoT is GW2 going forward until the next xpac drops.

While this may suck for those who haven’t bought HoT, there are valid reasons for why a company is reluctant to spend development resources on the “old version” of their product. I’m also unaware of any MMO that has spent significant time on developing content that wasn’t related to their most current expansion.

i know one…WoW did exactly that
every xpac from them changed the core game in some ways, that made it desirable to make a new alt, and to start the levelling process again
THAT is the reason , why wow is still the king
they keep the core game fresh and up to par with the rest of the game
and the core game is still the very first thing a potential customer will see

Wow is still king because they came out ten years ago in a barren market, charged people hundreds and hundreds of dollars in that time and so they have zillions of dollars to advertise.

When was the last time you saw a GW 2 commerical with William Shatner, or Chuck Norris or Mr. T.

Everyone always knows why WoW is a huge success…in spite of the fact that they’re losing subs so fast that they stopped reporting subscriber numbers.

wrong, it was because they opened mmos for the casual players
before that, mmos was niche, no game had over a mio players
anarchy online, ultima online, EQ1, were owning the market, until wow came to life
yes, it is dropping now..after a decade as the market leader
any dev would kill, to get that performance from their game
PS without wow, this game wouldnt even exist

And how do you think they even reached the casual audience, without advertising. WoW started development as a rich company already, due to other gaming successes. They didn’t reach all those people in a vacuum. And they didn’t get rich without investing in advertising.

You can say wrong all you want, but that doesn’t make what I’m saying wrong.

As far as whether this game would exist, there I believe you’re absolutely 100% right. This game wouldn’t have to exist if WOW wasn’t so popular and didn’t destroy and chance for originality or furthering the MMO development experience due to everyone trying to get a piece of that pie.

You may have noticed there are a whole lot of simple MMOs that never took off.

a good product, and word of mouth was the key to their success
those tv commercials only came after it was the biggest mmo by a large margin
notice how fast they dropped them again, i was a wow player back then so i saw the effects on the inside
do you remember destiny? HUGE PR budget, big title, mediocre performance

It was the biggest MMO by a large margin by being the only really professional MMO in the game. At the time they didn’t have to compete with free MMOs, or buy to play MMOs. Guild Wars 1 wasn’t an MMO and didn’t compete directly with WoW. THere were precious few people competing. Right time and right place, after which they completely destroyed the MMO market for five, six years.

You can believe anything you want, but WoW’s success was based on MANY factors, not just one or two, and timing and budget were definitely in the mix.

LoL NooBs.5076:

preorder bonus? Preorder? Bonus. <Calculating odds, please wait.>
… <Calculation complete.> PfhahAHahahAHAHAha! N1, mate!
It’s like a “Bone Us” for those who not just buy, but do it AHEAD of release of the """content""" that’s “surely” gonna be in it. OMG these forums are times more fun than the game itself right now. xD

Right because no one ever prorders a game to get a preorder bonus. Oh wait…

Just tap the space bar quickly and take your hand off it. That’s how you don’t glide. If you hold the space bar down too long you’ll end up gliding.

Shinzan.2908:

I think it’s silly to think GW2 is doing badly now, but as said above I do think their next expansion will be a hard sell given how HoT went. If nothing else a lot of people probably won’t prepurchase and wait for actual word of mouth – and considering they went on record saying they consider HoT a finished product that could go badly.

Unless the expansion is cheaper and comes with a feature many people want, and the preorder bonus is good.

People didn’t buy HoT, at least many people, because it didn’t look like a good deal. I’d be sorta suprised if Anet made that same mistake again.

Terrible analogy is terrible Manasa. Take AB. The loot in AB used to be locked behind a meta event. Instead of doing that, the loot is now available for just doing events. Several events have been added to make it easier for solo players even. I have casual people in my guild who could never solo AB before and now they can.

They can’t solo the meta any more than you can solo Tequatl. But they can solo many events and get rewards and collect zone currency.

If you can’t set and go for personal goals, this isn’t going to be a full time game for you. Most other games keep you playing by required grinding. But as far as exploration and story goes, they simply can’t make enough content to keep people playing full time, nor do I know any themepark MMORPG that can.

Sounds to me you might benefit from a game that is more sandboxy, rather than a theme park MMO.

This whole end game is really about choosing a goal and going for it. Doesn’t sound like you raid, which is another end game option. WvW is there as well. But the actual story/exploration part of the game…it’s never going to keep you playing…or anyway, unless you just want to keep completing the same story on multiple alts, which some people do.

It’s all about goals. If you can’t find one you like take a break. The story will probably be here over the summer.

battledrone.8315:

Vayne.8563:

battledrone.8315:

Astraea.6075:

LoL NooBs.5076:

You have to be kittenting me. Patch notes say a lot of words. "Err, they must have put some great effort in this… ".
It’s missing a lot of stuff and with all the HoT changes (long overdue, I might add) it’s basically yet another kitten-you to all core players. ANet treats GW2 as if it’s something separate and inferior to HoT, whereas in reality it’s the other way around. How cheap can you get…

Core is unlikely to see much in the way of future development that isn’t related to HoT. As far as ANet are concerned, HoT is GW2 going forward until the next xpac drops.

While this may suck for those who haven’t bought HoT, there are valid reasons for why a company is reluctant to spend development resources on the “old version” of their product. I’m also unaware of any MMO that has spent significant time on developing content that wasn’t related to their most current expansion.

i know one…WoW did exactly that
every xpac from them changed the core game in some ways, that made it desirable to make a new alt, and to start the levelling process again
THAT is the reason , why wow is still the king
they keep the core game fresh and up to par with the rest of the game
and the core game is still the very first thing a potential customer will see

Wow is still king because they came out ten years ago in a barren market, charged people hundreds and hundreds of dollars in that time and so they have zillions of dollars to advertise.

When was the last time you saw a GW 2 commerical with William Shatner, or Chuck Norris or Mr. T.

Everyone always knows why WoW is a huge success…in spite of the fact that they’re losing subs so fast that they stopped reporting subscriber numbers.

wrong, it was because they opened mmos for the casual players
before that, mmos was niche, no game had over a mio players
anarchy online, ultima online, EQ1, were owning the market, until wow came to life
yes, it is dropping now..after a decade as the market leader
any dev would kill, to get that performance from their game
PS without wow, this game wouldnt even exist

And how do you think they even reached the casual audience, without advertising. WoW started development as a rich company already, due to other gaming successes. They didn’t reach all those people in a vacuum. And they didn’t get rich without investing in advertising.

You can say wrong all you want, but that doesn’t make what I’m saying wrong.

As far as whether this game would exist, there I believe you’re absolutely 100% right. This game wouldn’t have to exist if WOW wasn’t so popular and didn’t destroy and chance for originality or furthering the MMO development experience due to everyone trying to get a piece of that pie.

You may have noticed there are a whole lot of simple MMOs that never took off.

battledrone.8315:

Astraea.6075:

LoL NooBs.5076:

You have to be kittenting me. Patch notes say a lot of words. "Err, they must have put some great effort in this… ".
It’s missing a lot of stuff and with all the HoT changes (long overdue, I might add) it’s basically yet another kitten-you to all core players. ANet treats GW2 as if it’s something separate and inferior to HoT, whereas in reality it’s the other way around. How cheap can you get…

Core is unlikely to see much in the way of future development that isn’t related to HoT. As far as ANet are concerned, HoT is GW2 going forward until the next xpac drops.

While this may suck for those who haven’t bought HoT, there are valid reasons for why a company is reluctant to spend development resources on the “old version” of their product. I’m also unaware of any MMO that has spent significant time on developing content that wasn’t related to their most current expansion.

i know one…WoW did exactly that
every xpac from them changed the core game in some ways, that made it desirable to make a new alt, and to start the levelling process again
THAT is the reason , why wow is still the king
they keep the core game fresh and up to par with the rest of the game
and the core game is still the very first thing a potential customer will see

Wow is still king because they came out ten years ago in a barren market, charged people hundreds and hundreds of dollars in that time and so they have zillions of dollars to advertise.

When was the last time you saw a GW 2 commerical with William Shatner, or Chuck Norris or Mr. T.

Everyone always knows why WoW is a huge success…in spite of the fact that they’re losing subs so fast that they stopped reporting subscriber numbers.

Soon.5240:

HoT is still a “Lather, Rinse, Repeat” XP grind.

As opposed to raids? Dungeons? Even PvP.

It’s all essentially just grind if you’re not enjoying it.

I don’t grind the HoT maps, I just play. And since all my masteries have been maxed for a while now, I don’t really need the XP.

Nor does what you say really have anything to do with the OP. He said it’s better now. That means, compared to how it was.

So even if it were an XP grind, it’s now LESS of an XP grind, since you get XP faster…which would make the OP true anyway.

Yeah I get currency in AB much faster than I used to, and I get far more keys. Not really sure what the problem is.

Not to mention you buy machetes with currency from the other three zones. That currency is so easy to get right now, it shouldn’t really be a problem.

STIHL.2489:

Vayne.8563:

Instead of mounts, I’d take a pack mule. lol

We have a Dolyak, a Dolyak Calf, or a Skritt you can choose from, if you are looking for our wonderful line of cosmetic stuff carrying animals.

No I want a pack mule. Something to carry more stuff around.

Instead of mounts, I’d take a pack mule. lol

Celtic Lady.3729:

ProtoGunner.4953:

WTF? Just buy the kitten expansion if you wanna play the new stuff. Really, what are people think? You get everything for free?

He doesn’t want to play the “new stuff.” Did you actually read his posts?

Does that include PvP seasons, which is new stuff?

Sirendor.1394:

Vayne.8563:

ViperClaw.1590:

Cyninja.2954:

ViperClaw.1590:

Cyninja.2954:

ViperClaw.1590:

An Expansion as a whole isn’t pay to win. – Correct.

An Expansion that comes with a big power creep is, in fact, pay to win, because of this very aspect. Because if you don’t buy, you lose pretty often (in competetive modes that is).

It isn’t that hard to get. Especially if you look at the content additions to sPvP and WvW in total.

Edit: I’m totally fine with paying for Expasions. IF i’m okay with its content-prize value.
You do like to generalize, don`t you?

Read up on what pay-to-win is. Better yet, go play some actual pay-to-win MMOs on the market. Then come back and appologise for the nonsense you were writing.

Thank you. But i know the definition of p2w. And Because it’s worse somewhere else is no excuse at all.

That’s like saying Hey, sorry you have lost yourt leg. But just imagine you would have lost both. Now just look up the definition of being handicaped and you will apologize for calling yourself handicaped now!

So. I’m standing to my opinion. Calling your statement nonsense. Aaaand we have pretty much a standoff situation. Funny isn’t lt?

Considering pay-to-win refers to required real cash purchases to stay competative on a recurring basis with no ingame way of circumventing them, I doubt you actually understand what pay-to-win is.

GW2 as most commonly agreed upon is pay-to-skip content or pay-for-convegnience.

So sure, we are at a standoff just like 2 people are at a standoff about what 2+2 is. My answer would be 4, yours is 5.

That’s not even getting into the entire concept of expansions. Now if we got started on that and compared every other MMO on the market and their approach to expansions compared to HoT…

Real money – check

to stay competetive – check

Just because you can’t buy single elite specs for real money but in a bundle with an expac doesn’t make it any better.

Argument closed. This becomes ridiculous.

Pay to win has a definition and that definition has NEVER included expansions. This is what happens when people try to take something literally that had a definition.

The original definition of pay to win was always buy power through microtransactions.

Sorry but that’s just a conceptual discussion at this point. You can circle around changing your definition infinitely if you like, it wont make anyone believe your definition is right and someone else’s isn’t.

P2W clear and simple is you pay for something with real money, which grants you more chance to win in a competitive PvP game (P2W does not really mean anything in PvE unless we’re talking speedclears). It does not matter one bit whether what you buy is an expansion, a microtransaction or anything else.

Are elite specs P2W? Yep.

So tell me what MMOs aren’t pay to win. That’s what I keep asking but no one seems to be able to answer this.

If all MMOs are pay to win then that’s the discussion even about? Why do we need the term at all?

Lite Ning Strike.5203:

Ardenwolfe.8590:

Anyone who knows anything about public relations knows how it works in the real world. We call it damage control. And given how things went recently, ANet certainly doesn’t want to add fuel to the fire.

So they had a ‘parting of the ways’ as they say. I know because I did this last week. Terminated a contract with a client. We both said publically that he decided to pursue other interests at this time. And I wished him the best of luck.

Sound familiar?

Again, no, it’s not concrete evidence, but those of us with common sense can read between the lines.

It is what it is, and that’s the last I’ll say about that. We’ve derailed the thread enough.

So let me try to put it back on track: With the recent patch, things are much better in the Deep Jungle to include Dragon Stand. Better loot drops and the like. And with the daily win reward there, hopefully more interest will be included too.

Dang man how do I give you a standing Ovation with an avitar, lol.

I agree I haven’t had time to try DS yet but my open world experiences so far have been great. My Guildies and I are already making plans to try the DS Meta this weekend.

You’re simply making an assumption and it’s not a warranted assumption. Because when people part ways that way, they don’t hang around and participate. Why would they want to or have to or be trusted to.

When people leave under that circumstance, you don’t put them out on public display which Anet did with Colin in the AMA on reddit. Both were there.

What’s Colin’s incentive for playing nice if he really got fired. And what makes you think what you’re describing happens more often than people just burning out?

I think it’s far more likely that Colin worked his kitten off on something that wasn’t appreciated and said kitten this, I’m out of here.

Because in Colin’s place, that’s what I’d do.

There’s no evidence that Colin was told to walk away except sales of the expansion weren’t what they expected, and even that’s only a matter of interpretation because what the company actually said was that free to play players didn’t convert at the rate they expected them too.

This isn’t circumstantial evidence, because there are a number of things that can explain Colin’s departure, including the stated reasons, that he got an opportunity closer to home where he can spend more time with his family.

ViperClaw.1590:

Pay-to-win is a definition in itself. Just because microtransactions are the norm and influenced some of p2ws definitions doesn’t mean that these definitions can’t be added to, or change over time (It’s always happening..).

Just because there was never an expac called p2w could still mean that maybe almost every expac is p2w content, looking at the competetive area of those games.

If you have to pay to stay competetive. If you have to pay real money for a cheap power creep you have to pay to win. Literally.

I know the industry. Maybe better than i want it to know. But the argument about “what is pay to win” is pretty much a waste of time and ressources when the main issue stays unspoken.

That`s why i’ve closed the argument.

I hope this has to be my last answer to that topic.

Peace.

I walked down the street and saw three phone booths. The middle one had a sign that said out of order. And I was wondering if it belonged before the first one or after the last one.

What words mean literally isn’t how English or any language works. Words have definitions for reasons. The reason for pay to win was to let people tell the difference between legit and illegit games.

Saying it literally means this in English means nothing. There are many many phrases in English that mean something very different from what they mean when literally interpreted.

And you don’t get to make up definitions just because you think it’s what the words mean.

If every single MMO is pay to win then the term itself becomes meaningless and you’ve corrupted the original definition. I can’t imagine why anyone would want to do that.

ViperClaw.1590:

Cyninja.2954:

ViperClaw.1590:

Cyninja.2954:

ViperClaw.1590:

An Expansion as a whole isn’t pay to win. – Correct.

An Expansion that comes with a big power creep is, in fact, pay to win, because of this very aspect. Because if you don’t buy, you lose pretty often (in competetive modes that is).

It isn’t that hard to get. Especially if you look at the content additions to sPvP and WvW in total.

Edit: I’m totally fine with paying for Expasions. IF i’m okay with its content-prize value.
You do like to generalize, don`t you?

Read up on what pay-to-win is. Better yet, go play some actual pay-to-win MMOs on the market. Then come back and appologise for the nonsense you were writing.

Thank you. But i know the definition of p2w. And Because it’s worse somewhere else is no excuse at all.

That’s like saying Hey, sorry you have lost yourt leg. But just imagine you would have lost both. Now just look up the definition of being handicaped and you will apologize for calling yourself handicaped now!

So. I’m standing to my opinion. Calling your statement nonsense. Aaaand we have pretty much a standoff situation. Funny isn’t lt?

Considering pay-to-win refers to required real cash purchases to stay competative on a recurring basis with no ingame way of circumventing them, I doubt you actually understand what pay-to-win is.

GW2 as most commonly agreed upon is pay-to-skip content or pay-for-convegnience.

So sure, we are at a standoff just like 2 people are at a standoff about what 2+2 is. My answer would be 4, yours is 5.

That’s not even getting into the entire concept of expansions. Now if we got started on that and compared every other MMO on the market and their approach to expansions compared to HoT…

Real money – check

to stay competetive – check

Just because you can’t buy single elite specs for real money but in a bundle with an expac doesn’t make it any better.

Argument closed. This becomes ridiculous.

Just because you say the argument is closed, doesn’t mean it’s actually answered.

Pay to win has a definition and that definition has NEVER included expansions. This is what happens when people try to take something literally that had a definition.

The original definition of pay to win was always buy power through microtransactions.

By your definition every single MMO with an expansion is pay to win, which would make the term meaningless.

The term was created to seperate games like Maplestory from games like WoW.

Tell me, by your definition, can you name an MMO that’s not pay to win?

eNeRgOo.5463:

How do you farm all ofthese? Opened 250 boxes? Hell guys tell me how to get keys !

People who open 250 boxes didn’t likely farm the keys, they bought them either with cash or converting in game gold to gems.

I’ve always thought mounts would be a good addition to this game. Not because I want to get places faster, but as something else I can use to customize my character. Some characters would have one type of mount and some would have another.

And it’s another thing to collect, which is fun for me.

That said, I doubt we’ll ever see mounts in this game.

Dinks.2478:

Ayrilana.1396:

The current system is better. You get 10AP for doing just three dailies instead of ten. This saves you quite a lot of time. On top of that, each daily now gives an award specific to what the achievement has you do. You also get three spirit shards which is more than the average player got per day unless they farmed champ bags. We all now also get 2G on top of that. Kind of hard to beat that.

Sorry, I meant the way the dailies were made, they were less specific. They were obtainable more organically.

The old dailies basically become the log in reward. Presumably you get that easier now than you did before. Because you can’t do the new dailies without logging in. lol

Sourde Noire.5286:

Honestly, I never understood all this hate against Trahearne. I can only guess it’s this mentality of you as the player being the hero, wanting all the glory for yourself.

Before I had finished my PS years ago I was reading a lot of these complaints, thinking that Trahearne will be some kind of backstabbing glory-stealing shady character. But he is always grateful for your contributions and advice, he always mentions you as being important and so on. And he is doing a lot of work behind the scenes.

Second point is probably true, but the PS wasn’t so much about Destiny’s Edge anyway. That’s what the story dungeons are for and where you could get some additional flavour and backstory about DE.

Third point is the only one I can agree on, the battle both in the open world and in the story instance are good, though the latter suffers from too much dialogue and resulting hyper armor for enemies that drags out an already long fight.

Overall though the writing in HoT was ambivalent, I feel. It had good points, like the death (that was executed a bit too comic-y, unfortunately, but hey we’re in PG13 land here) and bad points, like the Deus Ex Machina ending, and some inconsistent tones.

I posted a poll once and it seems (though I’m not sure it’s true in your case) that people that played a Sylvari first liked him more than people who didn’t. If you played a Sylvari he showed up earlier in the story and you already knew him.

Non-Sylvari characters basically have him come out of nowhere and take over at level 30ish.

In the poll 80% of people who played Sylvari (if memory serves me) liked him, but less than 50% of people who didn’t liked him.

I almost feel like I’m on a different forum. lol

kitten ed good patch. The ability to buy stuff in quantity from merchants is great, the changes to HoT were well thought out without nerfing everything to the ground, and the free shared slot is awesome.

Jolly good show, Anet.

Lite Ning Strike.5203:

Vayne.8563:

Ardenwolfe.8590:

ImTasty.2163:

Ardenwolfe.8590:

ImTasty.2163:

I think Vayne got his source from the same place people get their numbers for “a majority of people are leaving”, “HoT has disappointed a large portion of the community”, and other post claiming that large portions of the community are disappointed/frustrated with something.

You can’t have it both ways, you know. But, since you don’t like current opinion on the forums as proof, I can provide reviews, YouTube videos, and other media with our former peers’ reasonings for leaving to play something else if you like?

That said, not too many MMOs go free-to-play when they’re bursting with population, sales and success either.

Just saying.

Oh you mean reviews like this
http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/guild-wars-2-heart-of-thorns

or this
http://www.tentonhammer.com/articles/guild-wars-2-review

or youtube videos like this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u86rFkmmUwk

with all of those links being majority positive with some negative.

I can continue to provide more links but I think this is sufficient. While I more inclined to believe reviews done by big name companies, youtubers mean nothing to me because you can find videos of people either praising or bashing the game, just depends on where you look. As for our “peers” reasons for leaving, well lets just say after the claims were made that Wildstar was going to kill this game, I’ve stopped listening to our “peers” as a form of reasonable opinion. And don’t get me started on our “peers” reading comprehension.

Also many MMOs that go free to play are followed by both an increase and stabilization of the population which is never a bad thing. Even the gw2 pop went up after it went free to play.

Just saying.

Yes, because the game director leaves a very successful game the same year he releases the game’s first expansion because it’s such a success. Not to mention the CEO having to take over and look for a new person to fill the slot in the interim and then announciing the gutting of future legendaries to focus on Living World and the upcoming expansion. All the while people all over the web, in majority, say they are leaving or less than happy with the game.

But nooooo . . . the game is just fine.

Really?

We’re seriously having this discussion? I may not be Sherlock, but I know clues when I see them. I suggest you come out of the sand and do the same.

By the way, repeating my last line, in an attempt to be cute or clever? It doesn’t work. In debating circles, we call that parroting. It means you cannot come up with anything substantial of your own, recognize someone else’s words are better, and then attempt to use it against them in some attempt at one-upmanship.

Most recognize this for what it is: one who uses this tactic ignores the fact that their arguments have been falsified (usually over and over), and hope that their audience is unaware.

Sadly, for you, I am aware.

Might want to brush up on that if you want me to take you seriously . . . which quite frankly hasn’t happened so far.

But in case it’s TLDR, the picture below sums up what I think of your counterpoints so far:

People leave jobs all the time. Look up sea change.

I left a job I was working at for 13 years to write full time. It wasn’t because I couldn’t do the job. It wasn’t because the business was suffering.

It was because I was burned out. Colin wasn’t fired, he left to take a job closer to home. I’m not sure why you think that’s evidence of anything.

Uh Mr Writer you may want to re-vist the “Colin wasn’t fired” statement because you really don’t know. I think he was canned because the game has taken a turn in a different direction.

Notice I said “I think” because I don’t know for sure either but that is my opinion.

Actually I do know, or at least there’s a very clear indication of it.

People who are fired from sensitive positions like that don’t get to work out the rest of the week, which Colin did. Nor does he get to front an AMA with the guy replacing him and why would he if he was fired.

Anything who thinks Colin was fired isn’t paying attention.

Ardenwolfe.8590:

ImTasty.2163:

Ardenwolfe.8590:

ImTasty.2163:

I think Vayne got his source from the same place people get their numbers for “a majority of people are leaving”, “HoT has disappointed a large portion of the community”, and other post claiming that large portions of the community are disappointed/frustrated with something.

You can’t have it both ways, you know. But, since you don’t like current opinion on the forums as proof, I can provide reviews, YouTube videos, and other media with our former peers’ reasonings for leaving to play something else if you like?

That said, not too many MMOs go free-to-play when they’re bursting with population, sales and success either.

Just saying.

Oh you mean reviews like this
http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/guild-wars-2-heart-of-thorns

or this
http://www.tentonhammer.com/articles/guild-wars-2-review

or youtube videos like this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u86rFkmmUwk

with all of those links being majority positive with some negative.

I can continue to provide more links but I think this is sufficient. While I more inclined to believe reviews done by big name companies, youtubers mean nothing to me because you can find videos of people either praising or bashing the game, just depends on where you look. As for our “peers” reasons for leaving, well lets just say after the claims were made that Wildstar was going to kill this game, I’ve stopped listening to our “peers” as a form of reasonable opinion. And don’t get me started on our “peers” reading comprehension.

Also many MMOs that go free to play are followed by both an increase and stabilization of the population which is never a bad thing. Even the gw2 pop went up after it went free to play.

Just saying.

Yes, because the game director leaves a very successful game the same year he releases the game’s first expansion because it’s such a success. Not to mention the CEO having to take over and look for a new person to fill the slot in the interim and then announciing the gutting of future legendaries to focus on Living World and the upcoming expansion. All the while people all over the web, in majority, say they are leaving or less than happy with the game.

But nooooo . . . the game is just fine.

Really?

We’re seriously having this discussion? I may not be Sherlock, but I know clues when I see them. I suggest you come out of the sand and do the same.

By the way, repeating my last line, in an attempt to be cute or clever? It doesn’t work. In debating circles, we call that parroting. It means you cannot come up with anything substantial of your own, recognize someone else’s words are better, and then attempt to use it against them in some attempt at one-upmanship.

Most recognize this for what it is: one who uses this tactic ignores the fact that their arguments have been falsified (usually over and over), and hope that their audience is unaware.

Sadly, for you, I am aware.

Might want to brush up on that if you want me to take you seriously . . . which quite frankly hasn’t happened so far.

But in case it’s TLDR, the picture below sums up what I think of your counterpoints so far:

People leave jobs all the time. Look up sea change.

I left a job I was working at for 13 years to write full time. It wasn’t because I couldn’t do the job. It wasn’t because the business was suffering.

It was because I was burned out. Colin wasn’t fired, he left to take a job closer to home. I’m not sure why you think that’s evidence of anything.

There are some changes, mostly for the better These aren’t cursory changes, they’re deep rooted changes, everything from clearing out mob density on more traveled roads to frontloading rewards so you don’t have to play through the meta, to uncontesting the waypoints and adventures as often as they can.

For example, most of the waypoints in VB now are open all the time, and the two that aren’t are only contested when there’s an event on them.

The grind is a lot less, because you accumlate loot much faster.

There are more veteran events and less champion events.

And while skill points still require more than one person, adjustements have been made to some of the more difficult ones.

There are 15,000 words of patch notes. This isn’t a minor change.

Maximillian Greil.1965:

This is a fantastic patch, I 100% agree. However, looking at it in context, it’s been what… almost a year since they released their xpac and now it’s playable? I hope this is a sign of a new direction and a blunder like this won’t happen again. I am hopeful, but cautiously optimistic.

It’s six months mate…and programming takes time.

Chalk up one for the white knights. Good job Anet!

The best poll would have been

1. Under no circumstance
2. Depends on the preorder bonus
3. Depends on what’s in the expansion
4. I’ll pre order it regardless

Yes, thanks to all involved. I finally beat Tribulation mode in every zone.

DaShi.1368:

I hear and see the opposite. Although, it would be disingenuous of me to promote my experiences as the majority and state them as facts. Who could trust me after that?

I don’t know the exact numbers. Do you? Or should we make our decisions based on your beliefs?

People will make their decisions based on their experience. I’ll continue to express my beliefs. If you have a problem with what I’m saying feel free to report it to the moderation team.

But I still maintain it is my belief that a lot of people (not necessarily most) like the DS meta.

Ashen.2907:

Vayne.8563:

Nothing in my experience says this is true. Of course, it may be true in your state but I doubt it.

You may very well be right. I am sure that my company paid the fines, not because they were actually in violation of state law, but out of a sense of civic duty to help fund important social programs during tough economic times.

Sarcasm aside, unless the situations are exactly parallel and I don’t know that they are, I’m just taking your word for it.

DaShi.1368:

Vayne.8563:

DaShi.1368:

Vayne.8563:

That said, many people love the modremoth fight. Crashing bugs aside, this is really popular content. Maybe you have to do it a couple of times to understand what’s going on, or maybe you just don’t like it, but I don’t believe you’re in a huge majority there. That’s a fun fight.

Really? How many? Can you cite a source for this “huge majority?” Because I’ve seen nothing but complaints about it here. So if you have other information, please share.

Which part of “I don’t believe” are you having issues with? My beliefs aren’t sourced. That’s why they’re beliefs. Is it against forum rules to express belief now, because I hadn’t actually heard that.

The part where you said “many people love” and “popular content” first. This indicated that your “belief” was based on some kind of facts. I was just hoping that you would share them. But now we know the truth.

Well the word many means a large number of. Now I’ve spoken personally with 20 people who love the mordremoth fight, and they’re all in my guild. Now I’d go on record as saying everyone who loves the fight probably isn’t in my guild, my guild only having a couple of hundred people, If 10% play love the fight that would be many peoiple because it would be at last thousands. I’d consider thousand many. But you know this is just you trying to prove me wrong. Many doesn’t imply most btw. But I do know a lot of people like this fight. We’ve even seen more than a few posts with people who enjoyed it, and in those posts other people have said they’ve enjoyed it, so I can assume many people like it. Aside from crashing, I’ve certainly seen more people praise then fight than complain about it.

It’s popular content, because I see people calling it out in guild all the time. Hey DS is coming up, we got a map, come join me. That makes it popular.

I see this with fractals, but I don’t see this so much with TD or AB, or VB metas, or even the Silverwastes.

But yes, from posts that I’ve seen, far more positive than negative (aside from the crashing as I said) I’d be happy to make the assumption.

But as far as a majority goes, that’s just my belief.

Pretty reasonable for a dungeon crawler/ min-maxer type player who plays for efficiency, but ultimately meaningless unless that portion of the playerbase is a majority.

Aside from which dungeon nerfs might even be adjusted on Tuesday. But it’s just one guys opinion, obviously shared by others.

His comments about Guild Wars 1 PvP are factually wrong, since you could buy a PvP starter kit and you could buy packs to unlock skills.

Ashen.2907:

Vayne.8563:

I don’t think that it’s going out on a limb to say that if you advertised a major feature for something like a game, and you could show that only a very small percentage of the playerbase used that feature and so for the good of hte player base that feature, which wasn’t being used was discontinued after providing 25% of the weapons, you’d get no penalties at all.

I think it would be easy for Anet to say what they did was for the benefit of the playerbase as a whole. and not a small minority that are angry about the change. That’s not breaking any laws, they did in fact start providing this feature and when they saw how few people actually did it they made a decision that they felt was better for the game.

I think you’d be hard pressed to find a company that got fined for that.

Would be interesting if it worked that way. Doesn’t of course.

The penalties are assigned based on failure to fulfill advertised guarantees, not based on some portion of the customers, even if a majority, not desiring the undelivered advertised elements.

My employer’s fines were assigned for mistakes, not consciously deciding to not fulfill advertised guarantees. Again, I do not claim that these laws are universal but you might want to hold off saying, " That’s not breaking any laws," without the caveat, “where I live,” or, “that I know of.”

Nothing in my experience says this is true. Of course, it may be true in your state but I doubt it.

That is to say a game advertising features which it starts to deliver and then realizes isn’t being used changes the features, with a terms of service that says that can happen, (and yes I know TOS doesn’t override law)….I just don’t believe there’s anything at all illegal here and vague references to your job I’m sure aren’t that exact situation.

Edit: AFAIK this is all it ever said on the website about new legendaries and I don’t know what’s on the box itself.

“I know you’re all dying for more information on new legendary weapons, but we’d like to delve into them more with a dedicated blog post in the future. For now, I’ll say that we’ve been working hard on new legendary weapons, the first handful of which will be introduced in Heart of Thorns, with more to come in subsequent updates. The methods by which you’ll craft these legendary weapons are similar to the existing system, but we’ve refined it into more of a journey, similar to precursor crafting. We also want to better preserve the prestige associated with crafting a legendary weapon, so the new legendary weapons, and their precursors, will not be tradable. Keep an eye out—we can’t wait to start showing them off when they’re ready!”

DaShi.1368:

Vayne.8563:

That said, many people love the modremoth fight. Crashing bugs aside, this is really popular content. Maybe you have to do it a couple of times to understand what’s going on, or maybe you just don’t like it, but I don’t believe you’re in a huge majority there. That’s a fun fight.

Really? How many? Can you cite a source for this “huge majority?” Because I’ve seen nothing but complaints about it here. So if you have other information, please share.

Which part of “I don’t believe” are you having issues with? My beliefs aren’t sourced. That’s why they’re beliefs. Is it against forum rules to express belief now, because I hadn’t actually heard that.

Kelly.7019:

Vayne.8563:

And yet many people got to HoT content even solo and had little or no trouble. There have been harder areas in the game. Some of the achievements in Living Story Season 2 are quite hard. Triple Threat is quite hard. The TA Aetherblade path dungeon is pretty hard. High level fractals have existed for a long time.

The change in difficulty is greater to people who didn’t avail themselves of the game.

Also Frostgorge sound in the last zone to have hearts. None of the three end game zones in Orr have hearts at all. Southsun Cove didn’t have hearts. Drytop has no Hearts. Silverwastes has no hearts.

Which means the three last zones of the game, and every zone introduced since launch has no hearts. This stuff is already in the game. The same game you’ve been playing.

The problem is people avoided difficult content and expected level 80 content to be faceroll.

Most of the difficulty in HoT comes from knowing your enemy and thinking strategically. There are other areas in the game that demand this.

If all you’ve done is run the champ train in queensdale or if you’ve leveled mostly in an EoTm train, of course you’re going to be destroyed by things, The less harder content you’ve done, the more HoT will kill you but then many of us didn’t have those problems.

Honestly i expected new lower level maps, not all just level 80 maps. THat was a dissapointment. THere were 1 or two of a particular range that other ranges had more of. Wish they would have balanced this with an even number of lower range maps so you didn’t have to grind through the same ones over and over on your alts.

It’s like when Eye of the North expansion for Guild Wars 1 was released. It was all end game content. The reason for that was because there was plenty of non-challenging stuff in the game, I mean tons of it, but very little challenging stuff by comparison.

Anet was filling in the blanks so to speak. They’ve got a pretty big world, lots of easier zones and people have been asking for challenging content for a long long time.

Obviously not everyone wants challenging content, but one of the big complaints about this game was no end game. I’m assuming this expansion was meant to try to fix that.

Pretty much what Mortifer said. The personal story and the zone itself are linked and playing one without the other doesn’t give you the full picture.

That said, many people love the modremoth fight. Crashing bugs aside, this is really popular content. Maybe you have to do it a couple of times to understand what’s going on, or maybe you just don’t like it, but I don’t believe you’re in a huge majority there. That’s a fun fight.

Ashen.2907:

Vayne.8563:

Ashen.2907:

Vayne.8563:

False advertisement law, however, is dependent on intent to deceive. If someone advertises something that’s supposed to be delivered over time and they reasonably try to deliver it and then the situation changes and they don’t, no court in the US anyway would say they were guilty of false advertising.

Perhaps so, but a company in such a case could still face significant penalties imposed by the state for inaccurate representation of their product, even if there was no intent to deceive. I know that my company has paid quite a bit (as in millions of dollars) under those circumstances.

Keep in mind, also, that choosing to not expend the resources to deliver an advertised product because the company has chosen to spend them on a different product entirely might not be seen as reasonably trying to deliver the advertised product.

Actually, that’s not true at all. A company would not be imposed any penalty if they didn’t break the law. I don’t know where you’re getting that from.

The very MOST they would be required to do, by a court, is to refund the money for the purchase of the game, in in this case a portion of the money if the person played it.

In other words, if you join a health spa which advertises a certain machine and then they get rid of it 6 months into your contract, but you did other stuff in the spa, you’d not be entitled to anything.

I don’t know why you would think there would be penalties if no law had been broken.

I am getting it from the fines that have been levied, by the state where I live, against the company I work for. Keep in mind that laws vary from locale to locale. What you know to be true in Tasmania, or remember to have been true in New York, may not be, and probably is not, true everywhere. If it were not true here I can assure you that my employer’s legal team would have kept the company from paying the fines.

It may not be false advertisement if there is no intent to deceive, but there can be, and are in my state, penalties for advertisements that do not match the reality of the product.

These penalties exist for a number of reasons:

1) To ensure that businesses are doing their due diligence to ensure that their advertisements are accurate. Negligence on the part of the company can impact the consumer every bit as much as can willful deception.

2) To ensure that businesses are not hiding false advertisement behind claims of, “lack of intent to deceive,” which can be very difficult to prove.

3) To encourage businesses to correct their mistakes immediately so that the consumer is not left holding the bag when the business makes said mistakes.

Remember that killing someone, unintentionally but as direct and predictable result of one’s willful actions, may not be first degree murder, but that does not mean that there is not another law on the books to punish it. (And no, I am not comparing the legendary weapon situation with murder, just using this as an example of how a lack of intent does not mean that there is not another law covering the act).

I don’t think that it’s going out on a limb to say that if you advertised a major feature for something like a game, and you could show that only a very small percentage of the playerbase used that feature and so for the good of hte player base that feature, which wasn’t being used was discontinued after providing 25% of the weapons, you’d get no penalties at all.

I think it would be easy for Anet to say what they did was for the benefit of the playerbase as a whole. and not a small minority that are angry about the change. That’s not breaking any laws, they did in fact start providing this feature and when they saw how few people actually did it they made a decision that they felt was better for the game.

I think you’d be hard pressed to find a company that got fined for that.

Banaghran.7510:

Vayne.8563:

Banaghran.7510:

Imagine this discussion at the reception of a hotel, where one guest is trying to convince the other that the absence of soap and warm water was not so bad, because there still was electricity, the desk clerk smiling in the corner…

It’s a terrible analogy because soap and warm water are basics, where is legendary weapons are luxuries. More like if they said there was a massage room, and I wouldn’t have made use of it anyway, and they no longer offered it, even though it was still in the ad, That’s more what we’re dealing with here.

Comparing legendary weapons to soap and water isn’t really the same thing as comparing it to an exercise room, or a tennis court. I don’t go to a hotel to play tennis, but I do expect to shower.

Feel free to replace the mentioned issues with more fitting ones, does it make the depicted situation less preposterous to you? If yes, why?

Well it does change the situation. A hotel without soap and hot water, which most people will use is very different than a hotel that doesn’t offer massages that only a small percentage of the people will use. Or a specific weight machine.

If Anet said, look our next expansion we’re canceling combat, that would be a big deal to just about everyone. But if they said we’re not adding any cow feeding, only a small percentage of the people would be affected.

Anet probably looked at the amount of work creating those legendaries was and then looked at the number of people doing it by percentage and made a business decision.

They didn’t take soap and water out of the game, they took out a service that would affect far less people to provide more of something more people want.

I’m not sure how your analogy even makes sense at all.

I’ve never seen this complaint before, and I’ve seen a lot of complaints. Pretty sure it affects a minority of the playerbase…ie those that don’t enjoy platforming. The simple solution is to find a friend that’s a mesmer and ask them to help you out.

Because it takes me under a minute to climb that scaffolding.

Marius.3185:

Vayne you need to understand that most people won’t have the thought of pursuing a refund in their minds. I never ever considered it and nobody else will seriously. However I said false advertisement because it was false advertisement – I don’t need to be backed by the law to state a simple fact. Never did I use anything close to the legality of it in my post and I don’t care for it.

And I do not need the god kitten law to tell me wether I should feel cheated or not. I don’t want my money back, I want the game I like so much to stop shooting itself in the leg at every turn. That’s why I didn’t just stop playing and minded my own business. You can’t tell me that I’m not looking at the whole forest and instead focusing on one rotten tree, when said tree seems to be towering and dominating the whole forest.

They cancelled legendaries because they put themselves in a dire position. It’s they own fault for this no matter how you look at it.
They can’t release promised features (like fractal leaderboards, legendary armor and backpiece along others) because hot wasn’t ready to be delivered and still needs to be fixed. And will be for a while longer.
Story was never gw2’s strong point, however it’s getting ridiculous. Everything is either so generic and cheesy it’s just obnoxious or annoying, either it’s comic relief…Mainly the former.
The released 100 levels to the fractals and above 50 you cannot will not find any other levels being played except swamps. It’s the worst possible system to come up with…
Gated content is frustrating, drops are unrewarding and timed so you can only play one thing every two hours even though you finished all the meta events leading to the final one.
The promised difficulty gets nerfed patch after patch.
WvW is just a big disappointment.
I played only a warr and had to learn druid from scratch to have a chance in ranked pvp – not to mention the problems with the league itself where I got pushed around for 30 or so games (won around 4-5) in ruby, then immediately after had 3 long winning streaks to push me to diamond in 3-4 hours. I got a system now that makes me either grind through lossess like a masochist or drop pvp entirely. I don’t claim to be legendary material, but let me drop divisions instead of forcing me against better players or 4-5 games in a row with the same players I lost before and making me sit through so many frustrating games till the system decides I should start winning again.
Pvp is the main selling point of gw2 for me. I play almost everything, but this is why I still log in.

They messed around with everything and finished absolutely nothing…That’s why I can see the rotten tree anywhere I go

Yes – there are good points. One of them is the maps which are stunning – simply beautiful. This is one of the only reasons I still played hot content And I could name others here. That does not however excuse the fact that Hot was a mess and now that they decided they can just abandon projects it makes me feel like nothing they promise will ever have any substance whatsoever and it’s a shame.

That’s like saying a robbery is a murder, because you feel like it. False advertisement is NOT the same thing as changing your mind about doing something. That’s simply a fact.

You may FEEL like you’ve been ripped off, and that’s okay but that doesn’t mean a crime has been committed.

You haven’t heard me say that canceling legendaries is the best thing since sliced bread. By the same token I don’t think anyone can say this expansion is half an expansion because of a handful of features that didn’t get delivered on time…and like it or not, the title of this thread is talking about whether HoT was half done.

In theory the fractal back piece and another new legendary will be coming Wed, along with some other changes. WvW changes are incoming too.

Then it’ll be like 95% or more of what was advertised.

Then I see they’re fixing the ranger animation for sword, which is something I’ve waited for for a long time. I’m sure they’ll be other things as well.

There are a lot of people dissatisfied with HOT, but there are also a lot of people satisfied with it. But whether you’re satisfied or not, doesn’t make it half an expansion.

pickpocket.2071:

Moment of release is long gone so better to wait til it’s on sale don’t be full of regret like so many other suckers like myself who bought a 1/4 expansion

While it’s true that the moment of release is long gone, saying people who bought it full price are suckers is pretty silly. You don’t like it. Some people do like it. Some people like it a lot.

We’ve seen a dissatisfaction from certain areas of the playerbase, and quite a bit of satisfaction from other areas of the playerbase.

I’m somewhere in between, but more leaning to being satisfied, and I believe I’ll be even more satsified after Tuesday’s patch and again, when Living World Season 3 comes out.

Saying it’s a quarter expansion goes far beyond hyperbole.

Celtic Lady.3729:

Vayne.8563:

Celtic Lady.3729:

Vayne.8563:

Celtic Lady.3729:

Vayne.8563:

Celtic Lady.3729:

Vayne.8563:

Celtic Lady.3729:

HoT was and continues to be only partially done so long as all the items they advertised as being a part of HoT have not been put into the game.

I’ll just leave this here.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Disney_attractions_that_were_never_built

It’s not really the same situation and doesn’t alter my view that content already paid for should be provided.

It’s the same situation. Disney which is a themepark isntead of a themespark MMO talked about stuff they never delivered, for one reason or another.

Saying somethingt is partially completed, when it’s mostly completed is a different statement anyway. We’re not missing tons of stuff. We’re missing a couple of things out of a lot of things. And apparently the legendary fractal packpiece will be along any day, so we’ll be missing even less.

It’s not the same situation. There was a list of things we paid for from HoT. We paid for that list. The list that they chose to make and tell us was HoT was never fully delivered. Therefore, HoT is unfinished for what we paid for. The fact that they’re going to give more of the list, which is great, doesn’t change the fact that they’ve all but abandoned other items that we paid for. Until that list is in the game in its advertised entirety, HoT will be only partially completed.

Those who bought season passes at Disneyworld may have also paid for stuff they believed would be coming.

The problem is, with MMOs, you’re paying for access to areas. That’s what you’re paying for. Anyone who’s experienced with MMOs knows that stuff changes constantly, sometimes due to expected circumstances, some according to player commentary, some according to stuff that the company didn’t know.

Simply put if the company is going to put something in the game and not enough people are making use of it and it’s going to take a lot of development resources, canceling it is good business, even if a few players feel disenfranchised by it.

If we got 90% of the features listed on the box and then other things that weren’t listed, we’re getting value for money.

People still see buying an MMO is paying for a product, rather than a service, and they’re very different.

We were told we’d be able to craft precursors. Yes. Does everyone like the format that’s taken. No. But it’s all there.

Did Anet say we’d get new legedaries. Yes. Did they deliver some new legendaries, yes.

Did they also say over time we’d get more, yes. They did.

But We did get 3 legendaries and we’re getting a 4th now.

If you want to insist the expansion won’t be complete until the other 8 legendaries are in the game, sure, okay it won’t be complete. And TECHNICALLY that would make it a PARTIAL expansion.

But then if 90% of what is talked about is delivered, saying partial is still misleading.

It’s like saying I didn’t get hte radio I expected to get with my car, so I only got a partial car.

An expansion that’s always growing is always partial anyway. It’s the nature of the MMO beast.

If you paid for the radio, and they decided not to give it to you, then yes, you didn’t get the full sale. You got a partial sale, and most people wouldn’t be too happy to pay for features on their cars that they didn’t ever get after they’d already paid. Even making allowances for the difference in MMOs versus actual objects, they’ve given us a partial expansion so far.

They said that HoT would include 16 new legendaries. Until all 16 are in the game, it’s still partial even if most of it is there. They didn’t have to advertise 16 new legendaries. They could have advertised 4 new legendaries, but they didn’t. It was their choice to make that many legendaries part of the HoT pricing and advertisement.

But you still got a car, that’s the point.

This is just a sloppy business attitude. But I still got a car? Please. If a person pays for features for their car, but they don’t get them, then the seller has only given them part of what they paid for. A lot of people seem to feel the need to make excuses for Anet and prop them up. I don’t feel that need personally.

Since everything is digital, when it comes to MMOs, we spend our money based on the features listed as being part of an expansion. I believe it’s unprofessional and irresponsible to make a list of features and then not add them to the game once people have paid for those features. Adding most of the features is still not adding them all. Customers paid for them all. Giving them less than what was advertised is giving them a partial product since the sale was based on the features listed.

Rewriting history and saying that since we got some of the legendaries, we got the full expansion, seems kind of illogical to me. I get it that they planned badly and don’t want to do the work to finish the full 16. That’s life. But it’s still only giving me part of what I paid for.

It’s not a sloppy business attitude, whatever that is. It’s a realism that accompanies long experience with many different MMOs. They’ve all changed, some for the better, some for the worse. I tend to look at the forest, not individual trees. That’s always how I’ve been. Often this has served me in life.

It’s easy to be distracted by something I don’t have, even if I was supposed to have it. Does that make me happier? Stronger? Better? Or does that blind me to what I do have?

You don’t like a lot of things about the expansion, so you are more likely to focus on this missing tree. I’ve liked a lot of things about the expansion, but one of my favorite was gliding. I bought the expansion thinking, believing I’d never glide in Tyria. Yes, I lost a bunch of legendary weapons I might or might not have made, but I’ve gained something I didn’t expect as well. It’s all one equation to me.

I’m happier with the expansion having gliding in the open world than I expected to be when I bought the expansion. That added value to the expansion to me. The not getting legendaries that were listed doesn’t take away that much value of the expansion to me. But I don’t look at the expansion like a toaster or a computer. I don’t see it as a fixed product. I see it as something ever changing that will sometimes go my way and sometimes go against me, as with raids. I don’t like that, that’s against what I like and what I should want in the game.

I don’t spend my money on a list of features for any MMO. That’s not what I care about, and it’s not what usually will keep me in an MMO. I understand that you do spend your money that way, and that’s fine. But because I understand how I consume things, I’m only obligated to be a good consumer to myself. If keeping myself happy somehow offends you, I’m sorry for that, but it won’t change my behavior.

I see an expansion as one thing and one thing only. A potential for fun, doing stuff I enjoy. And I see it as value per dollar. I don’t want to a bean counter and say I got this and I didn’t get that, because at the end of the day, the only thing really important is that I’m having fun or enjoying myself.

In the case of HoT, I spent my money and I had some fun. Enough fun to justify the money spent. I lost legendary weapons which potentially might take away from the fun I might have had ,but I got gliding in core Tyria which provided with with lots more fun than I expected.

It’s not bad business sense to believe I’m happy when I’m happy. Just as it’s not bad consumer business sense to you to feel unhappy when you’re unhappy.

As someone generally happy with the expansion, who doesn’t particularly need more legendary weapons, I’m find with the decision to cancel them.

The car still drives. I can still get to work. It does everything I personally need it to do.

That’s all I really care about. In my mind it’s all I should care about.