Guild Wars 2

Tigaseye.2047:

Vayne.8563:

Guhracie.3419:

Vayne.8563:

Healix.5819:

Behellagh.1468:

1) There was simply no reason for Level 500 Food and Jewelry. It was the presumption of the players that these crafts would go to 500.

“We’ll expand all crafting professions to allow them to reach a new milestone: 500 points!” (2013)

There’s also the Xunlai Ingot

From the same article:

“As always, the content above is subject to change as we test and iterate on these systems.”

Changing your mind on doing something isn’t quite the same as not finishing it. For example we were going to put a shed in our back yard, but we decided on a gazebo instead.

They probably did some tests, and figured the time, energy and expense to level it wouldn’t be worth it, so they changed their minds about doing it.

You’re making a completely different argument than that quote was meant to express. Context matters. If you read it, Behellagh said that the players made the presumption that the two crafts would be expanded to 500. The quote shows that it was not an assumption made by the players, but it was based on actual information given by ANET.

Also, anyone who is using the “And you wonder why ANET doesn’t communicate with players” argument: Yeah, it’s super unreasonable to expect that people mean what they say. Why is it that in this format, it’s suddenly inappropriate to use official communication as a fact of intention? This is on the same level as politicians who make stupid statements and then say, “That was not intended to be a factual statement.”

You say things like that, and then you turn around and act like anyone who questions the various development plans that are currently “on the table” are people who just want to complain about everything and if ANET says they’re doing something, then they’re doing it and that’s that.

How do you even live with that kind of cognitive dissonance going on? It boggles the mind.

I live with it quite easily because I know the company is doing stuff that I like. I was told straight out we wouldn’t have gliding in core Tyria, but we do.

I find that adds to my game a lot more than more raids being out, or even more legendary weapons. It’s something I use frequently.

That’s how I live with it. I don’t get everything I want, and sometimes I don’t even get everything mentioned, but I get other stuff I didn’t expect to get.

Thing is, while I personally agree with you that gliding in Central Tyria is a far more fun and useful addition than more Legendaries I won’t make, I have to recognise that; a) that is a totally subjective opinion, on my behalf and b) they did, specifically, promise people the legendaries, in their marketing materials.

So, while we may be happy, in this instance, that doesn’t make it an OK thing for companies to do, in general.

…and in fact, if other types of companies did something like it, they would be in big trouble.

For example, if you bought a vacuum cleaner and they (intentionally) delivered a lawn mower, while you might be happy, as you happened to need a lawn mower even more than you did a vacuum cleaner (and felt it was worth more), that wouldn’t make it OK, if other people who bought the vacuum cleaner didn’t happen to agree with you.

…and OK, you could say that they are only changing a part of the vacuum cleaner, but even that isn’t really OK.

For example, if you ordered a vacuum cleaner that used bags and they sent you a bagless one instead, you would be under no obligation to accept that change, even if they (and some other people) viewed it as an improvement.

You are supposed to get exactly what you ordered; not a different thing, even if it could be viewed as better.

That’s kind of how trade works.

These analogies, everyone single one of them is pointless for a lot of reasons. Guild Wars 2 isn’t a vacuum cleaner. A court would have to determine if it’s a product or a service and both products and services come under different laws.

The whole false advertising commentary, at least in the states, presupposes intention to deceive by the company who creates the advertisement. That has to be proven in court and so far, no one can prove that intention to deceive exists. Laws exist to protect consumers, but laws also exist to protect companies.

If Anet had every intention of doing something and they say they’re going to do it and they don’t, then we have to actually prove they knew before they said they were going to do it that they couldn’t do it at that time. If no one has proven that, then it’s not false advertising. Nor is it a vacuum.

What you’re paying for when you purchase an MMO is access to an account and a world. That’s what you pay for. The specific nature of what you get in that work is determined by a lot of different factors, including fan pressure.

Simple example, HOT was advertised with a new WvW zone. That zone WAS delivered and many people, I’m sure most people, didn’t like the zone. So if Anet brings back the old zone due to player pressure, and that zone isn’t here anymore, they’re not actually false advertising, or breaking a promise. They made the zone and players asked for the old zone back.

In effect, the new “promised” zone won’t be here, but it’s still not false advertising.

All this comparing HoT to a vacuum cleaner is pointless. One thing is a service and one thing is a product. They follow different laws.

What you’re really paying for is a game key.

A better analogy would be buying a season ticket to a theme park based on the idea that one ride would be available and then finding out they weren’t going to finish it due to reasons.

In the mean time though, you’ve gone to the park and ridden other rides and seen other shows. That’s the best analogy for an MMO, particularly a theme park MMO.

You may not like this, but this is by far the best anology. A theme park isn’t a vacuum cleaner and sometimes planned things don’t happen. You could try to sue the theme park, and you could even ask for a refund. The problem is you’ve already used part of the product.

If you can PROVE that you bought this only because of one feature, and you never entered the park and did other stuff, or you can prove the theme park never had any intention of adding the attraction, you’d be right.

In this case those, with Anet furnishing 25% of the content listed, you’d have a very hard time proving in court that they didn’t intend to go further.

All they’d have to say is we did start providing this content and it proved unpopular with the percentage of the playerbase, so to give people more content they did want, we changed tracks.

And that would be enough to quash anything you could prove in court.

So the question becomes, what are your options besides skins, achievements, titles? What is a reward you’d find worth your time?

Obtena.7952:

I consider that an irrelevant comparison. When I pay for GW2, I pay for a service. When I buy something at a store, I get an item.

When I don’t get an item, I don’t get it. When I get partial service, I still got something. It’s also handled differently by the vendor as well. In this case, I feel that my $50, even with the partial service, was more than the value I paid for the service. I see why people don’t understand or want to ignore that difference. Makes them look more like the victim.

To me, it’s more like a cable service. It’s advertised with 110 specific channels and maybe I get 107 channels, but the three channels I’m not getting are three channels that don’t interest me.

Because there’s so many other channels, it’s not an issue for me.

Sure I could go and demand the channels I’m missing, but if I’m not going to watch them it’s not worth my time.

On the other hand, if one of those channels was a channel I wanted specifically, sure I’d be angry and complain.

It all depends on your focus.

At the end of the day, with 80 channels, I’d have plenty to watch, so it doesn’t matter if there are 20 channels I’m not getting. Yes, it’s nice to see that I’m getting 100 channels but at the end of the day it’s not going to make a difference to me, one way or another.

Sird.4536:

Vayne.8563:

Sird.4536:

I’m not saying people don’t like it, the many threads are.

I will only comment on the fractal. Ask your guild members if they are doing 6 swamps and 2 molten duo or 10 different a day. Also there might be a surge of people doing other levels but it’s only because they are removing 2 achievements.

Actually I don’t have to ask. My guild does whatever the dailies are and a couple of easy ones and they’re happy with that. It doesn’t bother them.

However, very often we have people who need something for collections or people who just need the achievement and all along, we help each other out in my guild. If someone needs to run Mai Trin to dump harpy pheremones on them for the Quip collection we do it.

So it’s not always the swamp…but then, that’s a problem for some people and not everyone. There are people who would rather be doing other things and just want their Fractal daily done too.

It’s not very different from how dungeons used to be. Not everyone was interested in Running TA aetherblade or Arah path 4.

Edit: And it STILL doesn’t mean the expansion is half done.

Now you are getting into specific fractals tied to collections and even by your own words it’s only for collections. I don’t see LFG of people just wanting to do harpy fractals or dredge outside of collections and achievements. As for TA path and Arah 4, they were seen as hard and time consuming content and we have seen challenging content isn’t for everyone. Couple with the dungeon nerf and the fact the weapons in TA are so rare no one does them anymore. This wasn’t the main reason I thought the expansion was half done but everything I listed before.

Doesn’t mean more people don’t like it this way. Before, if you were a hard core fractal runner, you had to have time to do an entire fractal. People complain about not having time to do a meta event in HoT. People don’t have time.

The new fractals favor people with less time, so more people do them. I think that’s fairly straight forward.

If you were a hard core fractal runner before, you weren’t some kind of majority. Casual players who don’t have time, might well prefer today’s fractals even if you don’t. I know for a fact far more people run fractals in my guild now over how many ran them before.

Sird.4536:

I’m not saying people don’t like it, the many threads are.

I will only comment on the fractal. Ask your guild members if they are doing 6 swamps and 2 molten duo or 10 different a day. Also there might be a surge of people doing other levels but it’s only because they are removing 2 achievements.

Actually I don’t have to ask. My guild does whatever the dailies are and a couple of easy ones and they’re happy with that. It doesn’t bother them.

However, very often we have people who need something for collections or people who just need the achievement and all along, we help each other out in my guild. If someone needs to run Mai Trin to dump harpy pheremones on them for the Quip collection we do it.

So it’s not always the swamp…but then, that’s a problem for some people and not everyone. There are people who would rather be doing other things and just want their Fractal daily done too.

It’s not very different from how dungeons used to be. Not everyone was interested in Running TA aetherblade or Arah path 4.

Edit: And it STILL doesn’t mean the expansion is half done.

Aedelric.1287:

Vayne.8563:

Aedelric.1287:

No it was not half done, more like two thirds.

Paint the picture however you like but player consensus is already in and most decided the expansion was mostly a disappointment. I think the issue is less about what we got, but more what we did not get and what the fans were actually expecting from it.

Actually we don’t really know if most decided the expansion was a disappointment or not. Some certainly did. The loud complaining people certainly did..but there’s no way to prove it’s a majority.

Pretty sure it’s a relatively large group of people by percentage however.

I am not sure about you but I do not see many glowing player reviews or topics that praise HoT let alone people in game spouting its virtues.

I do not believe even Arena Net thinks the expansion is truly great, which is why they have been trying to address player concerns since it’s release. I personally think the Living World can not come fast enough, the constant content droughts are damaging the game regardless of player satisfaction with HoT.

I have my fingers crossed the next expansion will be better.

I don’t see a whole lot of people making positive threads ever and never really have. That doesn’t mean people don’t like stuff.

People complained about LS Season 1 very loudlyi for a very long period of time. Now some people are saying how much they miss it.

However, most threads where you see people complaining, if you count the number of people complaining, you’ll see there are almost as many defenders.

I use to run a store and we had a customer feedback box. We had thousands of satisfied customers and a handful of complaints.

I almost never got a positive comment in the feedback box. More than 90% of the feedback was complaints.

But it was a tiny tiny percentage of those who shopped with us, including return customers who came in frequently. The store was very successful…but to look at customer feedback you’d never see that.

Edit: BTW, people being disappionted has nothing necessarily to do with whether the expansion is half done or 75% done or 90% done. It could be 100% done and people can still be disappointed. It’s not even really the topic of conversation, though I strongly still believe more people will complain than compliment as a rule of thumb.

Sird.4536:

The maps are fun? So why are they making sweeping changes to them?

This is precisely the kind of comment that I take the most issue with.

I wrote quite a bit of stuff that ended up getting edited. Sweeping changes were made, and there are still people who prefer the original drafts.

Let’s say for arguments sake that half the people like the HoT maps. It could be higher than that, or lower, but let’s say half.

But let’s also say another 30% of the population doesn’t, and 20% of the 50% who like it would like it better with the change.

You can’t deduce that something being changed means the map aren’t fun for a percentage of the player base. Every time I see a thread saying HoT is too hard, for example, almost half the thread is pointing out they think the difficulty is fine. You can’t always say something being changed means that people didn’t like it. Some people didn’t like it.

Anet is trying to make it accessible to people with less time. That’s a goal based on the idea that a percentage of people didn’t have time. But a percentage of people do and a percentage of people like that map.

The playerbase isn’t talking with one voice and you’re trying to make it sound like it is. I believe most WvW players don’t like the new zone, but I’ve seen some people who do.

I know a lot of people who like guild halls though. I know a lot of people who like the new zones. I know a lot of people who like the changes to Fractals, even if you don’t.

And none of them means the expansion was half done. It means parts of it weren’t enjoyed by certain demographics.

I prefer Fractals now to how they were before the changes and I know for a fact, more of my guild does them now than they did before the changes. Because it’s a casual guild who has less time to do stuff.

Which is why the changes won’t be reverted to what they were before.

You make it sound like some people not liking something is everyone not liking something.

For example, we know a lot of people like raiding, but we’re pretty sure it’s not a majority of the player base. Does that mean raiding didn’t come with the expansion?

Aedelric.1287:

No it was not half done, more like two thirds.

Paint the picture however you like but player consensus is already in and most decided the expansion was mostly a disappointment. I think the issue is less about what we got, but more what we did not get and what the fans were actually expecting from it.

Actually we don’t really know if most decided the expansion was a disappointment or not. Some certainly did. The loud complaining people certainly did..but there’s no way to prove it’s a majority.

Pretty sure it’s a relatively large group of people by percentage however.

Guhracie.3419:

Vayne.8563:

Healix.5819:

Behellagh.1468:

1) There was simply no reason for Level 500 Food and Jewelry. It was the presumption of the players that these crafts would go to 500.

“We’ll expand all crafting professions to allow them to reach a new milestone: 500 points!” (2013)

There’s also the Xunlai Ingot

From the same article:

“As always, the content above is subject to change as we test and iterate on these systems.”

Changing your mind on doing something isn’t quite the same as not finishing it. For example we were going to put a shed in our back yard, but we decided on a gazebo instead.

They probably did some tests, and figured the time, energy and expense to level it wouldn’t be worth it, so they changed their minds about doing it.

You’re making a completely different argument than that quote was meant to express. Context matters. If you read it, Behellagh said that the players made the presumption that the two crafts would be expanded to 500. The quote shows that it was not an assumption made by the players, but it was based on actual information given by ANET.

Also, anyone who is using the “And you wonder why ANET doesn’t communicate with players” argument: Yeah, it’s super unreasonable to expect that people mean what they say. Why is it that in this format, it’s suddenly inappropriate to use official communication as a fact of intention? This is on the same level as politicians who make stupid statements and then say, “That was not intended to be a factual statement.”

You say things like that, and then you turn around and act like anyone who questions the various development plans that are currently “on the table” are people who just want to complain about everything and if ANET says they’re doing something, then they’re doing it and that’s that.

How do you even live with that kind of cognitive dissonance going on? It boggles the mind.

I live with it quite easily because I know the company is doing stuff that I like. I was told straight out we wouldn’t have gliding in core Tyria, but we do.

I find that adds to my game a lot more than more raids being out, or even more legendary weapons. It’s something I use frequently.

That’s how I live with it. I don’t get everything I want, and sometimes I don’t even get everything mentioned, but I get other stuff I didn’t expect to get.

Zergs.9715:

Vayne.8563:

Healix.5819:

Behellagh.1468:

1) There was simply no reason for Level 500 Food and Jewelry. It was the presumption of the players that these crafts would go to 500.

“We’ll expand all crafting professions to allow them to reach a new milestone: 500 points!” (2013)

There’s also the Xunlai Ingot

From the same article:

“As always, the content above is subject to change as we test and iterate on these systems.”

Changing your mind on doing something isn’t quite the same as not finishing it. For example we were going to put a shed in our back yard, but we decided on a gazebo instead.

They probably did some tests, and figured the time, energy and expense to level it wouldn’t be worth it, so they changed their minds about doing it.

When someone says “We are raising crafts to 500 but as we iterate they are subject to change” the reasonable assumption is that said systems already exist and are being modified and iterated upon, not that they are completely gutted (if there was anything to gut in the first place) and removed from the game.

Since we are comparing stuff.
Customer commissioned me to make a four legged table and I deliver them table with only two legs and I also brought bunch of books to be put in place of missing legs. Naturally customer is kittened. But then another guy who also bought it starts defending me and my two legged table telling my latest customer how he/she should be grateful for having any legs at all and that books are perfectly good substitute.
This is what’s happening right now.

Interpreting such vague statements in a way you’re doing is a basically a blank check for never finishing anything and freedom from responsibility for not delivering listed stuff. The future posts like “Looking ahead” should, by that logic, probably contain only one sentence:
“Do not expect anything.”

Sorry but saying that I’m going to deliver something that later changes to the game make not useful isn’t the same thing as what you’re saying.

They simply didn’t see how adding jewelry would improve the game in my opinion. I don’t think it would improve my game.

The ascended armor and weapons were mat sinks. There’s just no reason to believe most people would be interested in upping their jewelry crafting.

In Anet’s blog post about iteration they did say they sometimes scrap entire systems if they don’t end up being what they want to be.

And it’s not like tons of people love ascended crafting anyway.

Sird.4536:

This expansion was half finished, just look at what is happening now. The expansion was supposed to bring in new content and right now they are removing instead of adding.

WvW borderland is going to be reverted to pre expansion. Which means the biggest selling point for WvW players is gone. The much anticipated WvW overhaul and priority after expansion has taken 6 months.

We have no idea what the fractal changes are going to be like but if it’s anywhere near the old system then again a step back. Plus 6 months in and no legendary back.

The PvE maps are getting changed from top to bottom and a nerf coming to masteries.

We could be waiting for up to 8 months for LS3 (from launch).

Legendary weapons scrapped for god knows how long, and the armour could take a couple more months.

There are many more things I could list but anyone saying this expansion was complete are kidding themselves.

The WvW borderland WAS delivered, the WvW audience doesn’t want it. I disagree it was the main selling point for WvW peiople. They didnt’ really ask for that.

Fractal changes ARE coming but there’s no evidence that they’re going back to what they were. However, it is my belief more people run the now than before.

PvE game is being adjusted to make it less grindy. I’ts not being taken away. Masteries aren’t being taken away.

Waiting for LS 3 is waiting for LS 3. It’s not scrapped. And since we don’t know the original plan we don’t even know it’s delayed. Did Anet say when it was coming or just that it was coming.

By the next patch 25% of the legendaries will have been delivered. We’re missing 75% of that feature.

There are many things more. There’s guild halls, the maps are actuually fun for a lot of people. People have been playing Dragon Stand and TD and AB for months. You may not want to count them because they’re being adjusted by they’re there.

Precursor hunting is in the game. I know this because I’ve already made 2 precursors.

The story, short thought it is, is in the game and I’ve beaten it on multiple characters.

Elite specializations are in the game.

PvP seasons, PvP tournament, and a new PvP type is in the game with it’s own queue.

Gliding has been introduced to core Tyria, something they said they’d never do. People seem to like it, btw.

The Shatterer redesign is much better than the old shatterer.

Very few people are complaining about Fractal rewards.

Most of the raid community seems to like the raiding.

Elites specialization weapon collections give people a pretty easy way to get certain ascended weapons.

There are plenty of new achievements for people who play that play style. Adventures are in the game, not everyone likes them, but some people do.

In fact, that’s really the issue with the expansion. Some people didn’t like some of it.

That’s not saying that stuff wasn’t delivered

It’s like going into a restaurant and only like 10% of what’s on the menu. It doesn’t mean more stuff hasn’t been offered.

Healix.5819:

Behellagh.1468:

1) There was simply no reason for Level 500 Food and Jewelry. It was the presumption of the players that these crafts would go to 500.

“We’ll expand all crafting professions to allow them to reach a new milestone: 500 points!” (2013)

There’s also the Xunlai Ingot

From the same article:

“As always, the content above is subject to change as we test and iterate on these systems.”

Changing your mind on doing something isn’t quite the same as not finishing it. For example we were going to put a shed in our back yard, but we decided on a gazebo instead.

They probably did some tests, and figured the time, energy and expense to level it wouldn’t be worth it, so they changed their minds about doing it.

reapex.8546:

Vayne.8563:

I guess Anet never finished EoTM or the personal wardrobe, or Living Story Season 2. Anet has finished many things, and they’ve abandoned others, pretty much like every MMO I’ve ever played.

In fact, in MMOs most things aren’t really supposed to be finished. They’re always moving on.

I mean Guild Halls are finished, but they’re going to add more Guild Halls I’m sure.

Guild Halls aren’t finished, several people reported they’ve done all the upgrades and are stuck in the 60s. Unless there is another way to level.

I’m not sure that there’s supposed to be a specific top level of tier. I’m sure more will be added, but as a feature the Guild Halls are finished.

Obviously anything ongoing needs to leave room for expansion. As an example, Living World Season 2 is finished, but the Living story goes on.

The Guild Hall is finished because you can max it out. Why does saying you got to the mid 60s matter at all. Are we saying it was supposed to go to level 80 or something, because I never saw that claim.

Linken.6345:

reapex.8546:

Vayne.8563:

I guess Anet never finished EoTM or the personal wardrobe, or Living Story Season 2. Anet has finished many things, and they’ve abandoned others, pretty much like every MMO I’ve ever played.

In fact, in MMOs most things aren’t really supposed to be finished. They’re always moving on.

I mean Guild Halls are finished, but they’re going to add more Guild Halls I’m sure.

Guild Halls aren’t finished, several people reported they’ve done all the upgrades and are stuck in the 60s. Unless there is another way to level.

wouldent say wardrobe is finished either since we still dont have all the spvp skins able to be unlocked.

The wardrobe is finished. That it doesn’t contain all the skins, well it’s NEVER going to contain all the skins, simply because new skins come out all the time. How many skins or which skins doesn’t mean as a feature the wardrobe isn’t finished.

Linken.6345:

Vayne.8563:

Okay these 25% and 33% are just unreaslistic. Maybe, Anet didn’t give us 15% of what we paid for. On the other hand they also gave us stuff they said they wouldn’t.

They said they wouldn’t give us gliding on core tyria and they did. You might say that doesn’t make up for Fractal Leaderboards. It sure does from where I’m sitting.

There’s a whole lot of hyperbole with people randomly applying percentages. They didn’t give us 75% of the legendary weapons and they’ve yet to give us the full WvW overhaul, however, the WvW overhaul is coming… we’ll be testing part of it in April.

The final raid wing is on schedule to be delivered, and that was always the plan.

I wish people would stop exaggerating the percentage of what we got, because saying we got half an expansion is demonstrably wrong.

Vayne 3 out of 9 is 33% we got 9 classes.
That was a comment I made since we will only get 4 out of 16 25% of legendary weapons.
Its good if you actualy read whats stated before trying to shoot it down.

Yes and they have been talking about both the wvw overhaul and legendary weapons for months so why should we be happy that they give us one over the other?

It’s not the point. Even the title of this thread said HoT is only half done, when we received far more than half of what was advertised.

If you want to say the legendary weapons was only 25% that’s fine, but that’s not 25% of an expansion. It’s 25% of the legendary weapons which was only part of the expansion.

The point is people are overstating their case.

Do I believe Anet should provide the other Legendary Weapons. I do. I believe they should provide it.

Do I believe it needs to be done before they get us out of the content drought? Nope, that I don’t believe.

However, if the legendary weapons are a single feature and you look at all the single features, we have far more than half an expansion. That’s all I’m saying.

Okay these 25% and 33% are just unreaslistic. Maybe, Anet didn’t give us 15% of what we paid for. On the other hand they also gave us stuff they said they wouldn’t.

They said they wouldn’t give us gliding on core tyria and they did. You might say that doesn’t make up for Fractal Leaderboards. It sure does from where I’m sitting.

There’s a whole lot of hyperbole with people randomly applying percentages. They didn’t give us 75% of the legendary weapons and they’ve yet to give us the full WvW overhaul, however, the WvW overhaul is coming… we’ll be testing part of it in April.

The final raid wing is on schedule to be delivered, and that was always the plan.

I wish people would stop exaggerating the percentage of what we got, because saying we got half an expansion is demonstrably wrong.

I guess Anet never finished EoTM or the personal wardrobe, or Living Story Season 2. Anet has finished many things, and they’ve abandoned others, pretty much like every MMO I’ve ever played.

For example, Anet never actually claimed LS Season 1 was coming back. They made it and finished it.

They said they’d like to bring it back eventually but it was never something they actually worked on, because they’re doing other stuff. Saying they haven’t completed something that was completed doesn’t really add anything to your point.

In fact, in MMOs most things aren’t really supposed to be finished. They’re always moving on.

I mean Guild Halls are finished, but they’re going to add more Guild Halls I’m sure.

Bringing Jewelry to 500 or cooking would be cool, but they’ve always been the odd man out in crafting anyway. Weapons and armor are all finished. Ascended jewelry we do have other ways to get.

MashMash.1645:

Fermi.2409:

PyrateSilly.4710:

That is the price for most MMO’s that are doing expansions. Most MMO’s now are also including the previous core game and/or other expansions into the price of the current expansion. Why is this a problem for people in this game to understand that is how most are doing it now?

Most expansions are $40 and contain much more content then HoT.

Yep.

Most expansions are for games that either require a subscription in addition to an expansion or they have some kind of “optional” subscription which you need anyway, or they have some sort of pay to win aspect that requires spending money.

It’s the business plan on which the game survives, not the price of one box. If you want to put it that way, both WoW and FF XIV require about 150 bucks a year, in addition to the price of an expansion.

SWToR, on the other hand, has an optional subscription which if you’re doing anything more than playing through the story, you’re paying.

This has nothing to do with megaservers. Nothing at all.

First you could have joined a squad, and you’d have at least a chance to get back in. The choice not to join a squad is your own.

Then, you crashed and didn’t get back on the same server. That really doesn’t have much to do with megaservers.

I remember crashing on my home server, before mega servers ever existed and ended up on an overflow because my home server was full. Lots of people used to guest to TC to do events.

The fault is in the crash itself, not in megaservers.

Torolan.5816:

Vayne.8563:

Torolan.5816:

Vayne.8563:

Sir Jensen.2153:

So I take it; the expansion isn’t worth the money?

That’s not necessarily the case. From every thread I’ve seen about half the people think it is. For example, people who raid, definitely think its’ worth the money. People who enjoy large scale meta events and harder open world zones often think its’ worth it.

The problem is there are entire groups of people who don’t think it’s worth it. This month a patch will be coming out to make it a bit less grindy and that might satisfy some people.

Me, I enjoyed the expansion.

HoT is basically ok. Basically.
My worst offenders are the adventures, they just neither make sense lorewise, are just more jump stuff on a jump stuff heavy map, or are plain annoying and way to hard.
Maps are not really big. Most layers are actually pretty small.
Gating, layering, walls everywhere. Not cool.
Reverse engineering, aka learning to enjoy the expansion when your mastery points rise more and more is not a good selling point and makes absolutely no sense for me.

But there are people who like the adventures and think they add to the game. I like some of them and most of them you don’t actually have to do. The other stuff you have a problem with I don’t…and a percentage of other people don’t either.

That is actally fine. But I don´t like to have an expansion that does not bother me over its due, I would have liked to have an expansion that sweeps me away for weeks or even months. HoT sadly did not do that for me.

Right, but it did it for some people, including most of the people in my guild. Not four or five months, maybe, but two or three months.

The point is, the comment I was responding to said so HoT is not worth it. To some people it is and to some people it isn’t. It’s not just cut and dried is my point.

Torolan.5816:

Vayne.8563:

Sir Jensen.2153:

So I take it; the expansion isn’t worth the money?

That’s not necessarily the case. From every thread I’ve seen about half the people think it is. For example, people who raid, definitely think its’ worth the money. People who enjoy large scale meta events and harder open world zones often think its’ worth it.

The problem is there are entire groups of people who don’t think it’s worth it. This month a patch will be coming out to make it a bit less grindy and that might satisfy some people.

Me, I enjoyed the expansion.

HoT is basically ok. Basically.
My worst offenders are the adventures, they just neither make sense lorewise, are just more jump stuff on a jump stuff heavy map, or are plain annoying and way to hard.
Maps are not really big. Most layers are actually pretty small.
Gating, layering, walls everywhere. Not cool.
Reverse engineering, aka learning to enjoy the expansion when your mastery points rise more and more is not a good selling point and makes absolutely no sense for me.

But there are people who like the adventures and think they add to the game. I like some of them and most of them you don’t actually have to do. The other stuff you have a problem with I don’t…and a percentage of other people don’t either.

Sir Jensen.2153:

So I take it; the expansion isn’t worth the money?

That’s not necessarily the case. From every thread I’ve seen about half the people think it is. For example, people who raid, definitely think its’ worth the money. People who enjoy large scale meta events and harder open world zones often think its’ worth it.

The problem is there are entire groups of people who don’t think it’s worth it. This month a patch will be coming out to make it a bit less grindy and that might satisfy some people.

Me, I enjoyed the expansion.

I don’t really know what you mean by more PvE going on.
Not really sure what you mean by good group content, but HoT has raids now, if that’s what you mean.
Condition builds work for everything now, due to a revamp of how conditions work.
The only place the game really has a trinity set up is raids, That said, If you think this game has ever been about every man for himself, you really don’t understand the combat in the game.

For example, in dungeons a lot of warriors take banners which help everyone. Guardians share their boons. Thieves can (and often do) stealth everyone. Rangers have spotter, a trait which buffs everyone in the party.

So I’m not really sure what you’re talking about about every man for himself. Admittedly there are selfish players in pretty much every game, but the game is designed so everyone can support each other.

It helps if you play with a regular group instead of pugging, but even in pugs, people tend to build to support their parties.

flog.3485:

@ broken Memory Dude, seriously, there has always been a grind in GW 2. You grinded WB to some rewards and stuff to sell, you grinded SW and dry top for the recipes, you grinded dungeons for liquidity and you grinded all the maps for crafting a legendary and you grinded world events/festivals to craft/obtain a skin…..stop beating a dead horse, the only problem with hot maps is the fact that the timers did not allow players to properly grind the way they wanted to grind the maps with currency requirements set up a bit too high. That is the only problem. Apart from that, no the expansion is certainly not falling apart

There’s always been grind but I don’t think anyone can deny the grind has increased. Even Anet admitted there’s more grind than they wanted, so I’m not really sure what else to say on that issue.

Ashen.2907:

I support the idea of rewards that are exclusive to specific content because, among other things, they can serve as trophies demonstrating one’s mastery of that specific content.

I have supported the idea of having the first set of legendary armor, its specific skin, restricted to raids. I have opposed the idea of an easy mode version of raids that awarded the raid legendary armor set because it would dilute that set’s ability to serve as a trophy for truly mastering the raid.

I had assumed, perhaps hoped is a better choice of words, that other legendary armor sets would eventually be added to the game in order to serve as rewards for other aspects of the game. To get the raid legendary armor one would raid, to get the WvW legendary armor one would WvW, and so on.

It seems unlikely, as legendary armor requires significantly more work than legendary weapons, in light of the cancellation of legendary weapons, that there will be ongoing development of more legendary armor sets.

If this is the case, since I do not think that an entire classification, tier if you will, of gear should be locked behind one specific set of content, I believe that it is probably, unfortunately in my mind, necessary, for the good of the game and the community, to expand the means by which one can attain legendary armor.

A skin can serve as a trophy as well as functionality though. If the legendary skin was unique to raids, it would serve the same purpose.

When you’re on the cloud before the first of the three clouds, press 3. Then jump to the first cloud and press three again.

Then jump to the next cloud and press 2,3. Then jump to the final cloud and press 31. It works.

Rauderi.8706:

Vayne.8563:

Lucyfer.9517:

Well tbh people were telling over and over and over again before launch of expansion that its not worth the price, that it will have very little content, very few maps etc. Those same people were called fools for judging the expansion before it came out (even though all info was there). Is amazing how those who bought game were hoping to get more than was announced, such an amusing blind faith in anet. Personally am glad i dodged the bullet called heart of thorns. Maybe when they will discount it to 5-10$ which is about as much as its worth i will pick it up, but thats a maybe.

But that’s the funny part. There are plenty of people who knew what they were getting and still feel it was worth the price. Every time there’s a thread is hot worth it, there are almost as many people who feel it was as feel it wasn’t.

The real issue is when people compare it to the value of the core game, which was phenomenal.

But I’ve already gotten a couple of hundred hours out of HoT so it was well worth my money.

I feel like HoT could be worth what I paid for it, with a few tweaks. Some seemingly small but necessary, complicated tweaks.

Heh, it’s funny, since SAB converted a friend of mine from core to expansion, I have a little protege to lead around, so hopefully that will finally get me into some of the newer content.

It’ll probably be more worth it when the Living Story Season 3 begins and maybe with the new patch this month as well. I’m really looking forward to seeing what they’re doing with HoT. Making it less grindy will not hurt.

Lucyfer.9517:

Well tbh people were telling over and over and over again before launch of expansion that its not worth the price, that it will have very little content, very few maps etc. Those same people were called fools for judging the expansion before it came out (even though all info was there). Is amazing how those who bought game were hoping to get more than was announced, such an amusing blind faith in anet. Personally am glad i dodged the bullet called heart of thorns. Maybe when they will discount it to 5-10$ which is about as much as its worth i will pick it up, but thats a maybe.

But that’s the funny part. There are plenty of people who knew what they were getting and still feel it was worth the price. Every time there’s a thread is hot worth it, there are almost as many people who feel it was as feel it wasn’t.

The real issue is when people compare it to the value of the core game, which was phenomenal.

But I’ve already gotten a couple of hundred hours out of HoT so it was well worth my money.

What made me quit the game was getting hacked and losing everything I’d worked for for years, because there was no roll back.

ProtoGunner.4953:

Vayne.8563:

ProtoGunner.4953:

Content is too thin since release of GW2, really. Other companies manage to release more meat, far more. I think the development process of Anet is just extremely long and complex. Otherwise I can’t imagine who they manage to release so few maps, no new dungeons, no single new fractals, put legendaries on hold etc. It’s just not there. I love this game and I hope they will do better with the next expansion. That said, I had a lot of fun playing HOT. Quality wise it was great. Verdant Brink or Tangled Depths were ingeniously crafted and imo one of the most complex maps I have ever seen in an MMO. Absolutely stunning!

The reason why they release so few maps is because DEs take longer to design than static quests. Static quests in most games don’t scale and don’t really interact with each other. DEs do.

Also static quests can easily be calculated so that you know exactly how much experience you need. As an example, Guild Wars 1 Prophecies had 203 static quests. Guild Wars 2 launched with over 1500 dynamic events.

The thing is, you need a LOT more dynamic events because there are no quest hubs. It’s not like people are guaranteed content, until you have so much content they can’t miss running into something.

Traditional quest systems don’t suffer from that.

That said, sure you are right. Those maps are rather complex, especially compared to most other maps. But why not just ad ‘normal’ maps? Why only such huge meta event maps? People already complained about it. I like those maps, but sometimes you just want to hop in, play 30mins and do some random events à la Central Tyria.

Even the normal maps in Guild Wars 2 are this way. Anet spoke about it during the prelaunch of Guld Wars 2. It takes a lot more work to make a Guild Wars 2 map than it does to make a map in a standard MMO because there are no standard quests which are a) easier to design and b) require more by number. I believe I remember Anet saying it requires three times the number of events over what it would if they’d gone with traditional questing.

Dante.1508:

Vayne.8563:

Maximillian Greil.1965:

I would be happy with an acknowledgement that HoT was a mess, and promise to make it right. They did it in FF14, and it’s worked out well for them. However, all we got was “HoT was a full expansion” and no acknowledgement of the mess they gave us.

Well they acknowledged HOT didn’t fit with their core philosophies and it was more grindy than they anticipated, so they’re taking the time to fix it. I’m not sure how different that is.

When are these fixes due may i ask?

And why is it my server (Sea of Sorrows) is so dead these days, i’ve only just returned but the populations seem smaller than i’ve ever seen them.

My Guilds i’m joining have less than 10 online a day..

Fixes are due this month…most people are guessing April 19.

The guild situation is weird because the game went free to play. Join one of the big big guilds you’ll see more.

Still even though my guild has a hundred people logging in every week, we usually only have ten or so at at time except guild mission days.

Edit: What I mean by weird is that a lot of new people, instead of joining existing guilds what to make their own guilds. So there’s a lot of guilds all competing for the few people without guilds.

It means a lot of these guilds are pretty new and many have little to offer as far as organized events, or guild hall progress.

Because so many people want to make their own new guilds, people are spread pretty thin.

ProtoGunner.4953:

Content is too thin since release of GW2, really. Other companies manage to release more meat, far more. I think the development process of Anet is just extremely long and complex. Otherwise I can’t imagine who they manage to release so few maps, no new dungeons, no single new fractals, put legendaries on hold etc. It’s just not there. I love this game and I hope they will do better with the next expansion. That said, I had a lot of fun playing HOT. Quality wise it was great. Verdant Brink or Tangled Depths were ingeniously crafted and imo one of the most complex maps I have ever seen in an MMO. Absolutely stunning!

The reason why they release so few maps is because DEs take longer to design than static quests. Static quests in most games don’t scale and don’t really interact with each other. DEs do.

Also static quests can easily be calculated so that you know exactly how much experience you need. As an example, Guild Wars 1 Prophecies had 203 static quests. Guild Wars 2 launched with over 1500 dynamic events.

The thing is, you need a LOT more dynamic events because there are no quest hubs. It’s not like people are guaranteed content, until you have so much content they can’t miss running into something.

Traditional quest systems don’t suffer from that.

Remember not being able to jump over a log and having to turn back?
Remember standing around in Spamadan all day because there wasn’t a trading post?
Remember when Alesha was your henchman and you lost count of the number of times she died?
Remember when Rurik would run off and die and you’d have to restart your mission?
Remember Komir? (nuff said)
Remember rank 8 Ursins?
Remember all the people who complained when heroes came out because it was going to ruin the game because no one would party anymore?
Remember running the same instance over and over again and never getting your mini polar bear?
Remember standing on 9 rings for an entire weekend, just to try to make out your luck title track?
Remember dying just before you got that elusive survivor title and having to start over?
Remember having to time your drinks to get through the drunken title.

Guild Wars 1 was a great game. But there was plenty of frustration there as well. Some people remember.

Silverforte.8540:

Ayrilana.1396:

Core game is free if you apply the product key to a new or F2P account. The core game is not part of the expansion’s cost.

I have an account from way back before HoT was released. I’m not going to give it up but I’m also not going to pay another 40+ for an expansion that, after this long, should have dropped around 30 or less. That’s virtually the price of a full game and it’s ridiculous.

It’s often on sale at DLGamer for $35.

There are certainly hard parts to it and certain jumps are pretty hard. But figuring it out is relatively hard. It’s certainly easier if people run to youtube and look up a video.

In fact, figuring out where to go and what to do is hard. In fact, it’s hard in the same way a raid is hard.

Most people figure out what to do relatively fast raiding, but it’s the execution that takes practice…SAB tribulation mode is the same way.

It requires patience, repetition and focus. But it’s the puzzle aspects that I enjoy most.

I was thinking about all the negativity lately, and how even I’m frustrated with some things in game (being a white knight and all). Then I started thinking about what game my guild and I would play if Guild Wars 2 wasn’t here. There’s really nothing out there for my play style anyway. Nothing at all.

Yes, there are issues with this game. In some ways the game have shifted focus to things I’m not interested in….but there’s not another game out there that I’d tolerate for 3.5 years let alone enjoy.

Daddicus.6128:

Why don’t you clean up the mess that gating created in HoT before “fixing” something that’s not broken (fractals)? Goodness, gracious, the gating is universally reviled, but there’s not a peep about fixing it. On the other hand, Fractals are finally fun, and yet you see some reason to fundamentally change them?

How about asking our opinion as to what needs fixing instead of deciding what we want?

Are you saying there haven’t been complaints about Fractals the way they are now, and that people haven’t asked for them to be changed, because if you are, you’re not paying attention.

While a lot of people are running the Swamp Fractal over and over again because its’ fast, and easy loot, people have been complaining about not being able to get a group for anything but the swamp fractal….and maybe Fractal level 40.

Most fractals languish in obscurity and yes, there have been complaints.

The changes being made are being made to address the complaints.

cranos.5913:

Vayne.8563:

I’m replying to you because what I’m saying gainsays what’s your say. You’re claiming that people are just talking about elitism, but you know, it’s more than just elitism. It’s about having to have X build, X profession and until now, that’s really gone against what Guild Wars 2 has been about.

Could I run any path of Arah with 5 necros. I could. And not even five necros specced to death either.

This content CREATES that elitisim. People are calling it elitism, but it’s really not. It’s a requirement born of necessity that says you must play this way to win.

That’s a problem. It’s also why I replied to your post.

It’s normal that everything can’t be played equally in a game that’s mostly balanced around PvP. That being said, there’s a lot of leniency and pretty much every class has something decent to bring to a raid. Would you rather they don’t make any challenging content then?

There’s that word again…challenging content. Challenging to whom?

A 20 year old who grew up on computer games and does everything brilliantly, who lives in the US with a fast connection?

A person who’s older, not as experienced, with an older computer who lives in an area without great internet?

Challenging content isn’t a one sized fits all thing. Lupi isn’t a problem anymore for some people. And some people still can’t get past him…even if that sounds improbable to you.

I think every one at some point wants content to challenge them. The difference is, I don’t want content that challenges me that makes me rely on 9 other people. I like challenging jumping puzzles. I like SAB tribulation mode and most people would consider that challenging content.

I don’t see the challenge of raids as the kind of challenge I want. I don’t need to stay out of circles, while attacking, dodge, and casting a bunch of skills based on a memories pattern. It’s not my type of challenge.

My the same token, I love puzzles and brain teasers. That’s also a form of challenge.

I dislike giant arrows in stories telling me where to go like I cant’ figure it out. But I don’t like the type of challenge provided by raids, or even challenges like Liadri.

Everyone sees challenge in a different way.

I don’t know I get through level 1-10 in like an hour. I have level 20 scrolls from other characters anyway. Saying the first hour or two of your leveling experience is going to stop you from leveling another character is fair enough.

But I think very VERY few people feel as strongly as the OP.

I’ve leveled characters since the NPE and I think I enjoy getting through the first 15 levels faster than before anyway.

And I absolutely prefer the story arcs to be presented in an unbroken fashion.

They simply don’t know yet. At this point in time, they’re not going to do it. They’re not going to tell you they’re never going to do it.

Anyandrell.6238:

Esquilax.3491:

That’s kind of the point… The entirety of SAB is a tribute to the days of 8bit graphics video games, most of which involved platforming like Mario Brothers or Sonic the Hedgehog, or keys, treasure chests, secret rooms and bosses like The Legend of Zelda.

I thought even gen Y and millenials had an appreciation for the origens of video games. Apparently not all of them.

Actually I’m a baby boomer, so I lived those times. Things in the past are better left where they belong – in the past. I never appreciated all those memes of “if you know what a cassette player is share this”. If I want to go on the nostalgia path (which I don’t) there’s always archive.org. The first Prince of Persia or Monkey Island might have their charm but for maybe 5 minutes after which I’m “ok enough of this kitten”.

Probably it’s exactly the opposite of what you stated and actually the millennials and generation Y are the ones who appreciate it.

If you were there, and part of that crowd, how in the name of the Six did you compare it to minecraft?

It has nothing to do with minecraft. Anyway, it’s mindbogglying popular, so if you don’t like it, just don’t play it.

Celtic Lady.3729:

trouble.3562:

Hello,

im an old player, super active on this game and i want to hear points of view.

First: How many players you think we have actually at March 2016 playing actively this game.

Second: What future can we expect? Thinking this while new features from Hot seem not “completed”, thinking this also cause new legendaries have been cancelled, thinkin this becouse WvW seems left behind.

Note: I love this game, im not crying about nothing. But this is something that’s on my thoughts and seems people are thinking this game has no future. Please convince me otherwise, if you can.

No trash talk please.

tyvm gl

Good questions, but it’s really hard to predict. I can’t deny that the in-game population seems smaller to me post-HoT. And it used to be when I checked the worlds page, all the worlds said high or very high even late at night for me. Now, even at prime time for my area in the US, I see mostly mediums.

But since I know that MMOs can continue operating with very small numbers overall (Rift, LOTRO, SWTOR, etc. all still run even though their numbers are really pretty low) it’s hard to figure on a game actually ending. So few really actually close, but it doesn’t mean they’re popular, either. It just means they make do with small pockets of content and less bug fixes. GW2 can do the same if the numbers keep dropping over the next few years.

As for content, I don’t know if it’s just their definition of a big expansion and mine are very different, but HoT seemed like a small expansion to me, especially when they start tossing out content originally intended for it. It’s easy to make a big long list of features to get people excited, but if they think it’s okay to announce features and then not deliver them, well, I figure some people like me aren’t going to be impressed if this keeps happening just to sell expansions and then make life easier for themselves later by not delivering.

And if Anet thinks $50-100 is a great price for an expansion of the size of the first one, then I don’t expect future expansions to be any bigger. They may even be smaller. Will enough people overlook all this and keep buying and playing? That’s the hard part to predict.

The world populations are predicated now entirely on WvW. It has nothing at all to do with the population of the homeworld.

I don’t know anyone that things that WvW is doing amazingly right now, but those medium, high or very high servers are only evidence of how many people WvW on those servers.

BrotherBelial.3094:

Vayne.8563:

I’d look for it on sale if I were you, but ONLY from an authorized dealer.

That was for pre sales only.

But he has a point, don’t go buying it from some shady ebay seller. Most company stock boxed copy’s now. I got.mine from Amazon in the UK for £28 3 or 4 days before launch. So look around, you’ll get it cheaper that directly from ANet.

There are a lot of sites, particualrly sites that sell keys that people think are legit, but really aren’t, and they’re certainly not authorized.

What I’m saying has nothing to do with presales. What I’m talking about is people buying keys from Kinguin or G2A and getting banned, because the key was bought with a stolen credit card.

Ramoth.9064:

Vayne.8563:

Ramoth.9064:

A lot of comments here seem to be based on heresay or speculation. I started raiding last week; it definitely needs effort, but the whole elitism stance is fairly baseless and not exclusive to raids. Dungeons and fractal players screamed zerk only for the longest time too. I’ve generally had really good pug experiences raiding. Team setup requires patience, but its not impossible. Set up your own team and you can specify the experience level. Ive also set up training runs before where experienced players joined and offered to teach.

I’d hardly say “most people” dont care about raiding, most of my guild raids, and it didnt come together when raids were introduced, we generally had people interested in it, whether it was inter guild raiding or pugging.

When I want to make a dungeon group,. I put up an ad, dungeon path casaul, fun run and I get people pretty kitten ed fast.

I’ve never not beaten a dungeon with any group I’ve gotten that way.

Try that with a raid sometimes.

Um, good for you? Not sure why you are replying to me though, i know raids need specific builds, and i dont mind that.

I’m replying to you because what I’m saying gainsays what’s your say. You’re claiming that people are just talking about elitism, but you know, it’s more than just elitism. It’s about having to have X build, X profession and until now, that’s really gone against what Guild Wars 2 has been about.

Could I run any path of Arah with 5 necros. I could. And not even five necros specced to death either.

This content CREATES that elitisim. People are calling it elitism, but it’s really not. It’s a requirement born of necessity that says you must play this way to win.

That’s a problem. It’s also why I replied to your post.

Ramoth.9064:

A lot of comments here seem to be based on heresay or speculation. I started raiding last week; it definitely needs effort, but the whole elitism stance is fairly baseless and not exclusive to raids. Dungeons and fractal players screamed zerk only for the longest time too. I’ve generally had really good pug experiences raiding. Team setup requires patience, but its not impossible. Set up your own team and you can specify the experience level. Ive also set up training runs before where experienced players joined and offered to teach.

I’d hardly say “most people” dont care about raiding, most of my guild raids, and it didnt come together when raids were introduced, we generally had people interested in it, whether it was inter guild raiding or pugging.

When I want to make a dungeon group,. I put up an ad, dungeon path casaul, fun run and I get people pretty kitten ed fast.

I’ve never not beaten a dungeon with any group I’ve gotten that way.

Try that with a raid sometimes.

Nope no new world three, only new rewards.

I’d look for it on sale if I were you, but ONLY from an authorized dealer.

Maximillian Greil.1965:

I would be happy with an acknowledgement that HoT was a mess, and promise to make it right. They did it in FF14, and it’s worked out well for them. However, all we got was “HoT was a full expansion” and no acknowledgement of the mess they gave us.

Well they acknowledged HOT didn’t fit with their core philosophies and it was more grindy than they anticipated, so they’re taking the time to fix it. I’m not sure how different that is.

Mcfrumpy.9385:

Hyper Cutter.9376:

“raids” in general in the MMO world have a long-standing bad reputation (a lot of it deserved), and so bringing raids to GW2 carries a lot of baggage.

Also, a lot of people specifically liked this game because it avoided the “raid or get out” mentality of many big-name MMOs.

Because Hard things are hard.

Hyper Cutter is pretty spot on about the about people liking this game because there are no raids. I really miss the Guild Wars 1 Underworld and Fissure of Woe.

I wouldn’t mind something like GW 1 Underworld or FoW but those are NOT raids. They were expansive zones where bosses didn’t have an enrage timer. You could go in, take your time, do the quests, and have a good time with friends.

The artificial difficult involved with rage timers is what I object too. I didnt’ need to use special builds to run UW or FoW with my friends if I wasnt’ speed running. Here you have to use the right guys, playing together with the right builds, very often using the right food. It’s not solving a problem, so much as doing something over and over again until you get it right. That’s okay for people who enjoy that but it doesn’t hold my interest.

You can not enjoy raiding without being afraid of it. I can raid. I don’t enjoy raiding.