Showing Posts For Vayne.8563:

How We Got Here (Long)

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

IMHO, While some have taken it that way, this thread was never about removing raids. It was always about giving a variety of people a place in this fine game.

I strongly support the idea of making Legendary armor tradeable.

That would be my preferred way of handling it as well. I mean if people can buy runs anyway, what’s really the difference.

For me, the difference is there’s no legitmate, Anet approved way to buy a run. Every time you do it, you’re actually taking a chance. Gold takes long enough to get in this game without risking it on paying someone for runs.

Buying the armor on the TP is at least safe to do. Because if I put up a lot of money and got stung, I’d want to leave the game…so I’ll probably never do it.

How We Got Here (Long)

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

I think I’ve made my point very clear – nobody is forcing you. Legendary armor is little more than a vanity item with a bit of added QoL. it’s not even in the game yet.

You are simply actively trying to put the blame somewhere, which is just kind of ridiculous.

“Oh no! I want Chak weapons, but the only way to get Chak weapons is by playing the TD meta”! is an argument that sounds rather stupid, doesn’kitten But it follows precisely your logic, Vayne.

Give up with this complete BS, Vayne. You. Don’t. NEED. Legendary armor. You don’t. Nobody does. It’s not required for anything. The entire basis of your argument is nothing but a balloon of hot air. Enough.

I still see NOTHING constructive here.

It’s okay if you see nothing constructive. That’s perfectly fine. But you’re not the ultimate arbiter of what’s constructive and what’s not. Other people see something constructive. In fact, you’re the only person who’s actually saying it’s non-constructive in the entire thread.

The FACT is (I know you like facts a lot), we’ve often had people ask for other ways to get stuff and I don’t ever remember seeing that as labeled non-constructive anywhere.

All I get from your post is that you don’t agree with it, so you think it’s non-constructive, and that’s fine. But that’s not what the term non-constructive means. I saw something I felt was a problem and I suggested a solution for that problem. That’s the very definition of constructive.

But this isn’t the main point of my post anyway. This post was really generated because I was tired of seeing people in other threads talking to people who don’t enjoy raiding and calling them lazy, or entitled, or saying they just want to press one to win. And you’re ignoring that, which is really my main issue.

So frustrated with HOT

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

Actually, even before Orr got nerfed on mob density, getting around was NOT hard and several waypoints even though they became contested, only remained contested for all of 5-15 minutes before becoming usable again often. There are 3 waypoints on every Orr map that could never truly be locked for LONG periods of time; the start of the zone, the zone transfer, and the middle. You could reach anything from those 3 points. Would it really have been such a hardship to imagine an army would build staging grounds they would actually hold without player input? I mean, it is supposed to be the pact, 3 orders coming together and half the military strength of the 5 nations combined, holding a few strategic points without the pact commander should NOT be a hardship.

I don’t find the new zones to be any different than that. I can usually get anywhere in 3 minutes.

Out of curiosity…

  • Where are you with regard to the travel masteries?
  • How long (how many hours, just at a guess) investment did it take to where you knew your way without having to look at the big map?
  • How did that investment in time taken to get familiar with the maps compare to the time needed to for you to get familiar with Orr maps?

Well, you need gliding, you need updraft use, and you need nuhoch wallows.

As far as getting around, I did it faster in every zone than I was able to learn my way around Kaineng Center in Guild Wars 1. lol

The point is, you don’t really have to do it all at once. You can chip away at it. So I learned DS first, by going with someone who knew it…and that took almost no time at all, to learn what I needed to know.

AB is actually probably the easiest of the maps to get around on. A couple of pitfalls, but it’s really not that hard. DS is completely linear, you pretty much just have three lanes.

TD is the really difficult one and that took longer. But it took longer not because its’ necessarily harder. It took longer because I was scared of it. And I didn’t bother with the meta, because I won’t play something that failes over and over. So until they fixed the meta, I didn’t spend much time there.

You learn some of the ways around as you play the story.

Now obviously I didn’t time myself in learning, but I did take note of landmarks. If I took a nuhoch wallow I made a note of where it let me out which helped.

The other thing is I offered on these forums to show people around and teach them the new areas and not a single person took me up on it.

Won't be getting Legendary armor!

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

Holy kitten. What have I done? lool

Eh don’t feel bad, this is just the state that the game has degenerated to. ANET built a community up that was used to faceroll easy content and now that they put interesting rewards behind content that may require a tiny bit of time investment or skill, they’re up in arms. They’ll nerf it though or provide an alternate, long as heck material Timegated route though. That I have no doubt.

I am getting sick of the attitude that all raids take is a little bit of effort and that if someone can’t beat a raid, it just means that they are unwilling to put in effort.

I have been practicing since the raid came out, and I haven’t beaten VG yet, but I hope to one day. But please don’t tell me that it only takes a tiny bit of time investment or skill because I’ve put in more than that.

Then again, Dark Souls taught me that there isn’t anything that a gamer won’t call easy.

This is my argument. It’s not like any other requirement for anything else in the game, because raids DO take far far more effort than anything else in the game. And if you don’t enjoy them, then Anet is requiring you to not enjoy the game.

If you’re enjoying the raiding you’re doing, that’s fine. If you like that kind of banging your head against the wall until you get something done, good for you.

But I don’t enjoy that style of play. Particularly because my home situation requires me to be on call a lot and I don’t always get to sit and do what I want for an hour at a time, or two.

There are a whole lot of people who work, want to come home and relax who play this game. And none of them should get rewards locked behind raids for what reason.

Keep in mind there really was nothing like this in Guild Wars 1 at all. If you couldn’t get through DOA you could still buy a tormented weapon.

Any of the armors you could work on a bit at a time. You could be ectos or obby shards for the hardest armor to get in the game.

Making this beyond the reach of most of the population is a bad move for the game in general. And don’t tell me everyone can do it. Even though I could do it, and I KNOW I could do it, it would involve me doing something I didnt’ enjoy for hours and hours on end. What kind of game is that? Why would I play it? Why would I want to buy gems in it? Why would I want to buy expansions?

How We Got Here (Long)

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

And yet again, for the upteenth time, you fail to mention that NOBODY is forcing you to play ANY game mode you don’t like. And that invalidates your entire post in my eyes.

I’m sorry you’re not getting what I’m saying. I’m saying to progress in this game at this point, I pretty much have to do something I don’t enjoy. Obviously I can go level another character, but after over 30 characters probably not likely to happen.

The problem isn’t being forced to do content, so much as having very very little content available to me that advances me. If that’s okay for you, I’m actually happy for you.

Unfortunately it’s not okay for me.

Then take a short freaking break. Nobody is forcing you. You get nothing out of PvP or raids that you actually really need. You have played through all the content? Take a break, Guild Wars 2 was designed with that in mind. We are arguably in a content drought, that is of course a valid point of criticism, blaming it on PvP and raids is childish and a knee-jerk reaction.

The baseless and aimless whining (no, not constructive criticism, actual whining) on these forums never ceases to amaze me.

How is suggesting that giving people goals without forcing them into content that has a relatively narrow band of players non-constructive?

I’m saying there’s a way to make it so players like me have more to do, while still giving raiders a reward to show off. You may not agree with that, but that doesn’t make it non-constructive.

On the other hand, I’m not so sure labeling constructive crticism as non-constructive because you don’t personally agree with is particularly constructive either.

I’ve made my case. I believe it’s constructive. I believe it will help the game. I demonstrated why I feel the way I do and other people seem to agree with me. I’m not saying close down raids. I’m not saying don’t make raids. I am saying don’t lock a tier of gear behind one specific type of content that most people will never do. I don’t believe that’s good for the game.

If you disagree that’s perfectly okay. But that doesn’t make the suggestion non-constructive.

Because they are NOT forcing you! Your entire argument is based on something that is factually not true. And if it’s factually not true, it’s also not constructive in the slightest!

In your earnestness to invoke fact, you miss the entire argument.

It’s a fact that right now there isn’t anything in game I really want to do, so I don’t really want to log in at this time.

It’s a fact that I could take a break, but if I do, I might or might not come back at a later date. You might be happy for me to walk away for periods of time, I’m not sure Anet is as keen as you on the idea. And obviously I’m not really talking about me. We’re talking about players like me. Not everyone comes back.

It’s a fact that if I had something to work for like legendary armor, I’d work for it, as long as I didn’t have to devote huge swathes of time to something I didn’t like.

Those are all facts.

I don’t have to do them. I can stop playing.

Are you suggesting everyone who wants to stop playing because they have nothing to do shouldn’t give suggestions on things that would keep them in game? Because it sure sounds like that’s what you’re suggesting.

OK, so instead of making kitten up about you being forced to raid, which even you seem to agree is factually UNTRUE, even though you yourself previously claimed it wasn’t, instead of that how’s about we comment on the aforementioned content drought? Why make kitten up instead of constructively discussing an actual legitimate issue? Why base your argument on something that is, essentially, a lie? And why are you avoiding directly answering my question about being forced or not? Interesting, I wonder why you would do that.

As for the content drought – they are aware of it, due to the way they (badly) handled things in 2014, they spent most of 2015 working only on HoT and had nothing in the pipes for post-HoT. They have acknowledged it, gave us a relatively clear time-window when we are getting new stuff and have hinted at what that stuff might be.

So essentially, even if we forget, again, the factual untruth that you are forced into raids, which undermines your entire thread, even if we forget that, we are left with a discussion that, while valid, has already ran its course. It’s a valid issue, but one Anet acknowledged THREE MONTHS AGO when they said they will focus on content from now on in the State of the Game blog post and one they addressed again in the AMA.

In conclusion – what exactly is constructive and new here, because I see nothing. If you wanna vent – fine, but venting isn’t constructive. Neither is making stuff up and using it as an argument.

At this point IF You want legendary armor, you are going to have to raid. That, at this time is a fact. If they have plans of bringing out legendary armor in any other format, I sure haven’t heard about it.

Sometimes context is everything. So I’ll clarify. If you want legendary armor, from what we know now, you will be indeed forced to raid. That is to say that’s the only way to get that reward when it finally comes out, that we know about.

That PUSHES people to do something they might not like. It doesn’t make them do it, but it strongly encourages them, puts pressure on them, exerts a certain force upon them.

You can keep saying I’m lying till the cows come home, but it doesn’t help anything.

If I can’t get legendary armor by any other method than raids, then the game is forcing me to raid for legendary armor.

Now, you can say I don’t need legendary armor, and you’b be quite correct. But I personally need goals that appeal to me, and none of the existing goals right now do. Legendary armor would appeal to me, but not at the price of doing raids.

Why would you want to push players that have a different opinion from the game, particularly because there are many of us? How is what you’re saying helping the game?

Yes, the content drought is part of the problem but I’m not sure it’s the whole problem.

I agree with Andulias — the content drought is the problem, not raids.

You seem focused on raid armor as an end game goal. Let’s take a step back. There are other collections you can do without legendary armor. Specialization collections, chak collection, ambrite collection, and more. These seem like end game goals at your skill/time level.

But you want a legendary! Despite that it has the same stats as ascended. Despite that stat changing is mostly useless. Ok. Let’s take a look at other legendaries.

To get a legendary backpiece, you must pvp. You are “forced” into this content. Eventually, you’ll be able to get it through fractals. You’re still forced into that content.

To get the new legendary weapons, you are forced into the HOT maps.

For the old legendary weapons, you were forced into map completion (lets ignore the trading post for a second). You were forced into completing a particular dungeon, or, eventually, a pvp track. You were forced into wvw.

This idea of forced content is nothing new for legendaries. This time though, you don’t like what you’re “forced” into. The good news is that legendaries don’t provide a statistical advantage.

Now lets look at the trading post. Personally, I’m ok with legendaries (and precursors) on the trading post, because, like you, I’d prefer acquiring legendaries through gameplay I enjoy. But I know many players like the new system, because it imparts prestige. I’m ok with that. I just won’t get one of the legendary weapons. Ascended works for me.

Rail against the new legendary system. Fine with me — I’m not opposed to alternate methods to get legendary armor. Rail against the content drought — I agree new content is long overdue. But don’t blame raids.

It seems you’ve run out of goals in this game. Personally, I’d think raids would be a good next goal for you. But it’s ok if you don’t like them. No one is forcing you to play them.

Yes, I’ve covered this in previous posts, but I’ll do it again now.

For the legendary backpiece, you can only get one in PvP at the moment but we also know you’ll be able to get one in Fractals as well, so therefore, there are two ways to get a legendary packpiece. We only know of one way to get legendary armor. The rest of your examples I’ve covered elsewhere.

I could get WvW world complete a tiny bit a time, 20 minutes here and there with no real dedicated time investment. I know this because that’s mostly how I did it.

I needed 9 dungeons but dungeons don’t take much prep. I can do one, take two weeks off and do another one. In a few months I’d have all my dungeons.

You can work on world complete in a completely casual mode. You can do a couple of points every time you enter a zone and eventually you’ll get them all. Sure it’ll take you time, but time isn’t really an issue for me.

Time all at one time IS an issue for me. That’s not casual. I’ve been able to get 8 legendaries without playing particularly hard.

I’m not able to get legendary armor, however, unless I run raids and if you can’t acknowledge that’s a whole different level of commitment than running a PvP match, or two or three…

I’m never going to have the PvP legendary back piece, because I’ll never get to diamond league. It’s not going to happen.

But I have a chance of running Fractals to get them.

Won't be getting Legendary armor!

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

When will you casuals understand that Legendary armour is the same as Ascended. If legendary armour have increased stats then I can understand some of what you are saying. Stop feeling like you are entitled to the gear because you have played for years but don’t have time. Find a group or guild and start working on it as raids are not temporary content.

Should I be entitled to the PvP back because I have played since launch but find the meta boring or MM stupid? Should I be entitled to the new Legendary weapons because I don’t have the time to sit around for events? Should I be entitled to the FotM back because I hate swampland? Get of your lazy kitten and work for something instead of waiting for the gear to fall in your lap.

3 years of easy content and everything available for free has made the casuals more elitist then the actual elitist.

Saying something is the same, doesn’t make it the same. Just the fact that the color of the letters are different makes it a different tier of gear. There’s the wiki page for items:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Item#Quality

In the chart in this page, it lists legendaries on a separate line from ascended. Therefore, in people’s minds, it’s going to be a different tier of gear. If you had a legendary weapon before ascended armor came out, then you’d have the ascended stats. The stats increased to match the current maximum level.

Since we can’t really guarantee there’ll never be another tier of gear, the tier of legendary gear is potentially endless. It’s a different class of item. It’s a different tier of gear.

You saying it’s not doesn’t make it any different in the minds of many. Many people see it as a different tier of gear and therefore they see it as desirable.

Now if it’s not particularly desirable why are so many hard core people telling us we’re entitled for wanting it? Seems like an odd thing to complain about, unless people want to keep it all to themselves.

And if it’s the same as ascended why would anyone argue for that?

How We Got Here (Long)

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

And yet again, for the upteenth time, you fail to mention that NOBODY is forcing you to play ANY game mode you don’t like. And that invalidates your entire post in my eyes.

I’m sorry you’re not getting what I’m saying. I’m saying to progress in this game at this point, I pretty much have to do something I don’t enjoy. Obviously I can go level another character, but after over 30 characters probably not likely to happen.

The problem isn’t being forced to do content, so much as having very very little content available to me that advances me. If that’s okay for you, I’m actually happy for you.

Unfortunately it’s not okay for me.

Then take a short freaking break. Nobody is forcing you. You get nothing out of PvP or raids that you actually really need. You have played through all the content? Take a break, Guild Wars 2 was designed with that in mind. We are arguably in a content drought, that is of course a valid point of criticism, blaming it on PvP and raids is childish and a knee-jerk reaction.

The baseless and aimless whining (no, not constructive criticism, actual whining) on these forums never ceases to amaze me.

How is suggesting that giving people goals without forcing them into content that has a relatively narrow band of players non-constructive?

I’m saying there’s a way to make it so players like me have more to do, while still giving raiders a reward to show off. You may not agree with that, but that doesn’t make it non-constructive.

On the other hand, I’m not so sure labeling constructive crticism as non-constructive because you don’t personally agree with is particularly constructive either.

I’ve made my case. I believe it’s constructive. I believe it will help the game. I demonstrated why I feel the way I do and other people seem to agree with me. I’m not saying close down raids. I’m not saying don’t make raids. I am saying don’t lock a tier of gear behind one specific type of content that most people will never do. I don’t believe that’s good for the game.

If you disagree that’s perfectly okay. But that doesn’t make the suggestion non-constructive.

Because they are NOT forcing you! Your entire argument is based on something that is factually not true. And if it’s factually not true, it’s also not constructive in the slightest!

In your earnestness to invoke fact, you miss the entire argument.

It’s a fact that right now there isn’t anything in game I really want to do, so I don’t really want to log in at this time.

It’s a fact that I could take a break, but if I do, I might or might not come back at a later date. You might be happy for me to walk away for periods of time, I’m not sure Anet is as keen as you on the idea. And obviously I’m not really talking about me. We’re talking about players like me. Not everyone comes back.

It’s a fact that if I had something to work for like legendary armor, I’d work for it, as long as I didn’t have to devote huge swathes of time to something I didn’t like.

Those are all facts.

I don’t have to do them. I can stop playing.

Are you suggesting everyone who wants to stop playing because they have nothing to do shouldn’t give suggestions on things that would keep them in game? Because it sure sounds like that’s what you’re suggesting.

OK, so instead of making kitten up about you being forced to raid, which even you seem to agree is factually UNTRUE, even though you yourself previously claimed it wasn’t, instead of that how’s about we comment on the aforementioned content drought? Why make kitten up instead of constructively discussing an actual legitimate issue? Why base your argument on something that is, essentially, a lie? And why are you avoiding directly answering my question about being forced or not? Interesting, I wonder why you would do that.

As for the content drought – they are aware of it, due to the way they (badly) handled things in 2014, they spent most of 2015 working only on HoT and had nothing in the pipes for post-HoT. They have acknowledged it, gave us a relatively clear time-window when we are getting new stuff and have hinted at what that stuff might be.

So essentially, even if we forget, again, the factual untruth that you are forced into raids, which undermines your entire thread, even if we forget that, we are left with a discussion that, while valid, has already ran its course. It’s a valid issue, but one Anet acknowledged THREE MONTHS AGO when they said they will focus on content from now on in the State of the Game blog post and one they addressed again in the AMA.

In conclusion – what exactly is constructive and new here, because I see nothing. If you wanna vent – fine, but venting isn’t constructive. Neither is making stuff up and using it as an argument.

At this point IF You want legendary armor, you are going to have to raid. That, at this time is a fact. If they have plans of bringing out legendary armor in any other format, I sure haven’t heard about it.

Sometimes context is everything. So I’ll clarify. If you want legendary armor, from what we know now, you will be indeed forced to raid. That is to say that’s the only way to get that reward when it finally comes out, that we know about.

That PUSHES people to do something they might not like. It doesn’t make them do it, but it strongly encourages them, puts pressure on them, exerts a certain force upon them.

You can keep saying I’m lying till the cows come home, but it doesn’t help anything.

If I can’t get legendary armor by any other method than raids, then the game is forcing me to raid for legendary armor.

Now, you can say I don’t need legendary armor, and you’b be quite correct. But I personally need goals that appeal to me, and none of the existing goals right now do. Legendary armor would appeal to me, but not at the price of doing raids.

Why would you want to push players that have a different opinion from the game, particularly because there are many of us? How is what you’re saying helping the game?

Yes, the content drought is part of the problem but I’m not sure it’s the whole problem.

How We Got Here (Long)

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

And yet again, for the upteenth time, you fail to mention that NOBODY is forcing you to play ANY game mode you don’t like. And that invalidates your entire post in my eyes.

I’m sorry you’re not getting what I’m saying. I’m saying to progress in this game at this point, I pretty much have to do something I don’t enjoy. Obviously I can go level another character, but after over 30 characters probably not likely to happen.

The problem isn’t being forced to do content, so much as having very very little content available to me that advances me. If that’s okay for you, I’m actually happy for you.

Unfortunately it’s not okay for me.

Then take a short freaking break. Nobody is forcing you. You get nothing out of PvP or raids that you actually really need. You have played through all the content? Take a break, Guild Wars 2 was designed with that in mind. We are arguably in a content drought, that is of course a valid point of criticism, blaming it on PvP and raids is childish and a knee-jerk reaction.

The baseless and aimless whining (no, not constructive criticism, actual whining) on these forums never ceases to amaze me.

How is suggesting that giving people goals without forcing them into content that has a relatively narrow band of players non-constructive?

I’m saying there’s a way to make it so players like me have more to do, while still giving raiders a reward to show off. You may not agree with that, but that doesn’t make it non-constructive.

On the other hand, I’m not so sure labeling constructive crticism as non-constructive because you don’t personally agree with is particularly constructive either.

I’ve made my case. I believe it’s constructive. I believe it will help the game. I demonstrated why I feel the way I do and other people seem to agree with me. I’m not saying close down raids. I’m not saying don’t make raids. I am saying don’t lock a tier of gear behind one specific type of content that most people will never do. I don’t believe that’s good for the game.

If you disagree that’s perfectly okay. But that doesn’t make the suggestion non-constructive.

Because they are NOT forcing you! Your entire argument is based on something that is factually not true. And if it’s factually not true, it’s also not constructive in the slightest!

In your earnestness to invoke fact, you miss the entire argument.

It’s a fact that right now there isn’t anything in game I really want to do, so I don’t really want to log in at this time.

It’s a fact that I could take a break, but if I do, I might or might not come back at a later date. You might be happy for me to walk away for periods of time, I’m not sure Anet is as keen as you on the idea. And obviously I’m not really talking about me. We’re talking about players like me. Not everyone comes back.

It’s a fact that if I had something to work for like legendary armor, I’d work for it, as long as I didn’t have to devote huge swathes of time to something I didn’t like.

Those are all facts.

I don’t have to do them. I can stop playing.

Are you suggesting everyone who wants to stop playing because they have nothing to do shouldn’t give suggestions on things that would keep them in game? Because it sure sounds like that’s what you’re suggesting.

Won't be getting Legendary armor!

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

ok I see too many people ignoring the real problem, the fights have a limit.

there are world bosses that last longer than some of the raid encounters, so there’s no argument for casual complaints.

the real problem is that people want hand-out loot, it is not a time restraint issue that prevents casual players from enjoying the raids, it is an unwillingness to learn fight mechanics hidden behind shroud of “I can’t” when they are really saying “I won’t”

The real problem is people who like raids think that people who don’t like them want a hand out.

If you didn’t like sour milk but the only way to get what you want was to drink sour milk, you might do it. But you likely wouldn’t enjoy it.

I’ve put a lot of time, effort and energy into doing stuff I like in this game. But if I don’t enjoy raids, suddenly I want a hand out? Or do you suppose some of us bought this game to do something we don’t enjoy.

Answers like this aren’t doing those who love raids any favors at all. All they do al serve to push people who don’t enjoy raids to be more resistant to even saying raids should be in the game.

There are reasons for people not to like raids that have nothing to do with lack of skill or entitlement or laziness. And because this is a game, not a job, we don’t want to do something we don’t enjoy just so people who do enjoy it can have the ability to show off their prowess. For one thing, since raid paths are sold anyway now, there’s nothing to show off anyway. If I see someone with ascended armor at some point, I can just assume he bought runs.

The solution, in my opinion, is to have nice, unique raid skins for raiders so they can show off, but leave the functionality off of it.

Raiding isn’t a casual activity. You can’t really hope to get into a pug and beat it in an hour or two. That mostly doesn’t happen. You need to learn the fight over hours. And if you don’t enjoy that activity, hours of doing something you enjoy in a game seems ridiculous to me.

It’s like asking me to drink sour milk to get something I want in game. I wouldn’t do it. And I don’t think anyone should be required to.

So frustrated with HOT

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

Actually, even before Orr got nerfed on mob density, getting around was NOT hard and several waypoints even though they became contested, only remained contested for all of 5-15 minutes before becoming usable again often. There are 3 waypoints on every Orr map that could never truly be locked for LONG periods of time; the start of the zone, the zone transfer, and the middle. You could reach anything from those 3 points. Would it really have been such a hardship to imagine an army would build staging grounds they would actually hold without player input? I mean, it is supposed to be the pact, 3 orders coming together and half the military strength of the 5 nations combined, holding a few strategic points without the pact commander should NOT be a hardship.

I don’t find the new zones to be any different than that. I can usually get anywhere in 3 minutes.

How We Got Here (Long)

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

And yet again, for the upteenth time, you fail to mention that NOBODY is forcing you to play ANY game mode you don’t like. And that invalidates your entire post in my eyes.

I’m sorry you’re not getting what I’m saying. I’m saying to progress in this game at this point, I pretty much have to do something I don’t enjoy. Obviously I can go level another character, but after over 30 characters probably not likely to happen.

The problem isn’t being forced to do content, so much as having very very little content available to me that advances me. If that’s okay for you, I’m actually happy for you.

Unfortunately it’s not okay for me.

Then take a short freaking break. Nobody is forcing you. You get nothing out of PvP or raids that you actually really need. You have played through all the content? Take a break, Guild Wars 2 was designed with that in mind. We are arguably in a content drought, that is of course a valid point of criticism, blaming it on PvP and raids is childish and a knee-jerk reaction.

The baseless and aimless whining (no, not constructive criticism, actual whining) on these forums never ceases to amaze me.

How is suggesting that giving people goals without forcing them into content that has a relatively narrow band of players non-constructive?

I’m saying there’s a way to make it so players like me have more to do, while still giving raiders a reward to show off. You may not agree with that, but that doesn’t make it non-constructive.

On the other hand, I’m not so sure labeling constructive crticism as non-constructive because you don’t personally agree with is particularly constructive either.

I’ve made my case. I believe it’s constructive. I believe it will help the game. I demonstrated why I feel the way I do and other people seem to agree with me. I’m not saying close down raids. I’m not saying don’t make raids. I am saying don’t lock a tier of gear behind one specific type of content that most people will never do. I don’t believe that’s good for the game.

If you disagree that’s perfectly okay. But that doesn’t make the suggestion non-constructive.

How We Got Here (Long)

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

I see you, Vayne, your point is valid. But I don’t like raids mostly because I CAN’T Raid. I’ve tried so many times and I don’t have the coordination. So I will never have Legendary Armor and that makes me sad. For me all this so-called easy content over the years has never been easy for me. I’ve hated feeling like a second class citizen because things others found easy were near-impossible for me to do. I really wish people could get alone and stop polarizing others. I shouldn’t be locked out of rewards in a GAME because I am not good enough at something. I should at least have the option to struggle my way through it. It’s taken me near 4 years to get three legendaries and I worked so hard for them. I am proud of my accomplishments and I should be allowed access to legendary armor regardless of the reason I want it. I dislike rewards being locked off to one game-type. I’m all for more options, more paths with the same goal. The special snowflake status some people feel at being elite should not dictate the rewards I get for my investments. I paid the same 50$ they did.

The exclusive rewards in raids are mostly cosmetic. I think it’s healthy for hard content to offer exclusive rewards.

As for legendary armor, it’s really only a skin. It has the same stats as ascended and its stat switching ability is a questionable quality of life improvement.

That said, I’m not opposed to alternate methods for legendary armor. But this probably won’t come for a while. We have 3 new legendary weapons that can only be attained through pve. A lot more to go. And the fractal backpiece isn’t done yet.

There’s plenty to aim for that’s not legendary armor. And if that’s the only thing you have left, the you probably have the time to master raids.

Mostly cosmetic is okay. Purely cosmetic would be better.

The simple fact is, I can’t think of any good reason to hinder people from having swappable stats, regardless of whether it offers a huge advantage or a tiny one. It’s a different tier of gear because it has a different color. People will perceive it as a different tier. It’s listed in the wiki as a different tier.

For some people that’s enough to work for it, but won’t be enough to raid for it. And since the raiding crowd pretty much want to show off, a skin would do the same thing, without disenfranchising as many people.

It’s not like you can stand around in LA and show off stat swapping, so it doesn’t need to be a unique part of the reward.

But of course that’s only one example. I also wouldn’t mind getting vipers trinkets for my viper character, but again, not at the price of raiding. So again, something I might have to work toward is removed from my equation and I really can’t think of a good reason for it.

*wave* Hello!

in Players Helping Players

Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

Should probably be in the player’s helping player’s area of the forums in any case, but I think it’s nice for you to offer help.

Why do people complain about "pay to win"

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

People who claim expansions are pay to win are simply misusing the term. The problem is people who weren’t there when the term was invented try to use the term literally. Unfortunately there are many terms in English you can’t take literally.

Pay to win was usually meant to denote games that offered microtransactions that provided power. If you can buy somethign that makes you more powerful, particularly if you cant’ earn it in game as well, it’s a pay to win game.

Expansions were never considered pay to win and I can’t think of any expansion in any MMORPG that didn’t increase the power of the game. Most games that comes through leveling.

If anything this game is less pay to win, since PvP is normalized here.

How We Got Here (Long)

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

Vayne, I think some of your points are valid but I am also thinking about the number of game hours you have and that anyone who has played as much as you have is bound to be running out of stuff to do, or at least, running out of stuff that they truly like doing. It’s hard to generate content fast enough to keep the really active players going. I reckon I’ve got a few more months of “normal” play left before I start feeling like I have stalled. If HoT gets nerfed that will extend it a bit but then I’ll be in a holding pattern until I ether get bored and stop playing or until some new content lands.

I’d normally agree with you, but I’m actually quite slow in the way I do things. For example, I still have a single achievement left from Living Story Season 2 that I haven’t done. I haven’t finished the badges in Silverwastes (the second set I mean).

Much of my time, most of my time, is helping guildies get their achievements. Or even random strangers sometimes.

I spend far more time in game hanging out with guldies that working on my own stuff.

In fact, now that I think about it, that what I probably should go back to doing. That fulfills me more than farming or grinding anyway.

So frustrated with HOT

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

You make a fair point about Orr, Silverwastes, and Southsun locked wps, but the transit complexity, mob density, mob strength, and required transportation masteries are not the same when comparing HOT to core game maps. In fact, with gliding and launch pads in core game maps it’s even easier than it was before to get around. I could envision a situation where a minor xp reward could be offered to those using the special transportation vehicles within HOT, and open wps for folks that just want access to events or locations previously opened through legitimate gameplay. I would like to play more within HOT areas – I find the events and meta progression fun, but the transits really put me off for casual gameplay.

Right be we played those maps from launch without gliding or jump pads. Now they’re easier, but before that…particularly before Orr was nerfed, with the high mob density and the pulls and stuns…Orr was also hard to navigate.

But I think the perception of getting around is worse than actually getting around. I get it if you don’t like it because you don’t like it, but it’s not a hot exclusive issue and it is actually part of the game itself.

How We Got Here (Long)

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

Vayne congrats btw on your thread getting so many view so early. By forum standards that makes you a Rock Star now LOL.

BTW I’m also on TC and WvW often late night or early N.A. times.

I’m in Australia so you’d probably be sleeping what I’m WvWing…but I’ll add you to friend and keep an eye out for you of that’s okay.

How We Got Here (Long)

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

And yet again, for the upteenth time, you fail to mention that NOBODY is forcing you to play ANY game mode you don’t like. And that invalidates your entire post in my eyes.

I’m sorry you’re not getting what I’m saying. I’m saying to progress in this game at this point, I pretty much have to do something I don’t enjoy. Obviously I can go level another character, but after over 30 characters probably not likely to happen.

The problem isn’t being forced to do content, so much as having very very little content available to me that advances me. If that’s okay for you, I’m actually happy for you.

Unfortunately it’s not okay for me.

How We Got Here (Long)

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

@Vayne: I lead a 100man roster guild based in Australia. We have no issues PvPing or WvWing. In fact, those are our core activities – we don’t do any PvE related activity (raid, dungeons or otherwise) as a guild. You’re using ping as an excuse and that’s just sad.

I’m in Tasmania. You might have heard of the problem with the Tasman cable being cut off, or you might not have, but a tiny bit of research would have unearthed the problems that Tasmanians have right this minute. It’s in the newspapers down here.

I know the mainland doesn’t really care about Tassie, but it doesn’t change what I’ve said.

Telstra due to a lot of people sharing their bass strait line has throttled the bandwidth so you can’t even get what you’ve paid for.

And you know, I don’t care if you believe me but…

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-03-13/tasmanian-internet-users-assured-services-will-improve-by-week/7242728

How We Got Here (Long)

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

Anet really did want to do something different and a fan base that simple couldn’t adapt to it changed the plan in my opinion. That’s why we’re stuck with stuff like ascended gear and why raids have finally made it here. Because Anet couldn’t change the genre as much as they expected they would be able to. Fair enough I suppose. They have to make the games for players.

I’m not sure if it was necessarily a community fault insomuch as it is design flaws in the system. GW2 was very much built on the backs of games that fully embraced gear grinds at the level cap and extremely finely tuned multiplayer content that requires this gear to be successful.

I mentioned it before, but it bears more elaboration. GW2 is a game that worked by stripping away the features of other games. Part of it was to deal with inequality. Part of it was for convenience. But, by taking away so much, the end result was a game that had a world that was aesthetically pleasing but functionally bland. In this essence, the failings of GW2 themselves serve as an interesting case study. Some of the issues were fixed, but think about this from the perspective of GW2’s launch.

#1: The loot and quest system. A lot of games have almost exclusively enemy specific drops, and these drops have a unique value for what they would be used for. Usually some kind of crafting or resource, or even the equipment types themselves. This drives players toward explorations, because each obscure monster in obscure corners of the world is a new capitalistic venture.

GW2 largely abandoned this feature, wanting all content to be equally rewarding. Some crafting components were “gatherable” at launch, via fighting a certain kind of enemy at a certain level, but the way the loot system handled everything made this slow and impractical. So, most enemies have a set of generic global drops and junk items that serve no purpose. The end result was that, there was little reason to care about enemy types or locations. If I find an obscure creature in a cave somewhere, you weren’t interesting in seeing what it “dropped”, because it dropped the same bland stuff. At launch, champion events roamed the map unhindered, because there was absolutely no reason to fight a champion mob.

The entire bestiary of GW2 existed so you could look at it. The heart quests and events themselves were also a bust. Heart quests were basically busywork with paltry rewards and vendors that sold items nobody would use. The dynamic events rewarded a paltry amount of coin and a useless currency that is karma. After having experienced them once, unless you hit a “grind spot” where you could mass slaughter enemies spawned by scaled up events, there wasn’t any reason to do dynamic events.

This also meant that there was no reason to visit lower level zones, even if you scaled down.

#2: Leveling and stats. Now, in games prior, your level carried over to everything. It was how strong you were, in PVE and PVP, bolstering both your physical presence and the techniques available to you. It was how much work you had put into your toon, and because the level was everything, it was a strong sense of growth and progression.

GW2, wanting to get rid of imbalances, made it so PVP and WvW auto scaled, fumble became mandatory as enemy level increased slowly, and made it so with the exception of Health and Armor, all players had identical stats no matter what class they started with. The end result was that leveling wasn’t a goal or even interesting. It was a content throttle. An obstacle for you to overcome in order to… be in GW2.

#3: Gear tiers and types. Now, previous MMOs had gear that was special, in that they did special or unique things, or had unique buffs or stats on them. The tiers themselves were important, as they bolstered your stats and gave you special advantages. You wanted to work toward new gear. Sometimes, it even changed what you could do or how your class performed.

GW2, wanting to remove imbalance and make everything fair, removed all special properties from gear (including its drop locations), and just made the tier and gear prefix important. This made all of the drops in the game bland: though weapons looked different, everything was functionally identical, so the new aesthetics of weapons entertained you for but a moment. You achieved the “peak” fairly quickly via exotic gear, but because everything was balanced around exotic gear, it is as if the entire gear system was a content throttle. Everything your class could do was decided and restricted very early on. Even legendary weapons were there just to look nice and boast about how much money you blew.

#4: Auto healing. Most MMOs were about the journey, in the sense that your health regenerated slowly and you used consumables regularly for healing. Many games had a “rest” command or something similar, where you could accelerate health growth.

GW2, wanting to be convenient and be about the duels and PVP, removed that for convenience. However, a lot of game’s economies and build systems were built around fighting that inconvenience. Now that you always auto-healed after a fight, we encountered something new in MMOs: the Berserker Meta. In a normal game, going full glass cannon is dangerous precisely because it magnified the wear and tear that you received as you wandered the world. But now, there was no reason not to go full cannon and obliterate enemies, healing away all damage afterward with wolverine like regeneration. Though this is a change I don’t mind too much personally, the fact is that a lot of people do, since it changed hard roles of combat into softer roles, and made body counts more important than anything else. This also lead to the WvW Zerg meta.

#5: Travel. A lot of games have a quicktravel or teleportation system of some kind, but a lot of the journey from one place to another was done by hopping onto a mount or a vehicle or a train of some kind, and traversing the dangerous but gorgeous terrain the world had built into it.

GW2, wanting to remove the wait and make things convenient, removed this system. This mean that traveling was something you did once and then you would just waypoint your way around to get to places. There was no exclusivity to locations other than their level throttle, and the entire “world” of GW2 effectively disappeared after you saw it once.


Keep in mind, these flaws compounded on each other, and quite heavily so. Any one of these would be a single flaw of a game, but when you put it together, you suddenly understand why it is that a large portion of the MMO community ended up not liking GW2 and requesting that it be changed. We had

A) A world that was basically a waypoint map
B) That was restricted by archaic systems that don’t fit into the game and would just throttle your performance
C) That lead to places that offered no unique capitalistic of functional ventures to gain
D) With a homogenized combat system that made everything feel very “samey” and a gear prefix system that reinforced this functionally
E) And the same old “fetch seven bear kitten” busywork disguised as hearts and “dynamic” events.

And this was all made by cutting things away from previous MMOs. It didn’t replace these with new features or built upon a new system. So of course there was a community falling out and a cry for something to “do” in the game. This wasn’t because there was fault in the community. GW2 was bland on the operational level.

This is a good post. This is why a lot of people didn’t like this game..but the point was many of us did. We stayed and others left. So now, in an attempt to capture them, you risk us.

Is that a worthwhile risk? I guess time will tell.

How We Got Here (Long)

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

Basically what I’m reading here is that you don’t want to play “MMORPGs”, but rather, “co-op/multiplayer RPGs”. MMORPGs have evolved past the “RPG” element towards a social experience. There’s no “role play” left in MMOs because “role play” (the way you want it to be done) can’t be done with a massive community – there’s too much disconnect between different players in expectations and time commitments.

In the past, when MMOs were smaller, role playing was indeed a main focus. I’m thinking back to late 90s/early 2000s Runescape, where the concept of instances and dungeons didn’t exist and many people simply played to make their character reflect them as a person (whether it was combat focused or a complete pacifist). In other words, role playing.

MMOs now don’t have that because they aren’t, if we’re going into semantics, RPGs. They’re more or less an interactive social network, pioneered by the likes of “Second Life”, “IMVU” and such. When we put time into these games, we expect adequate compensation equivalent to the time we put in. Whether we’re a PvP player or a dungeon raider, we expect that our time get adequately compensated.

I don’t disagree with your premise, but I strongly disagree with the way you talk down to people who want more out of this game for the way they want to play it.

How does 10 man make something more of an MMO than 5 man? This is an unreal statement to me.

Playing in a more organized instanced content isn’t what makes an MMO an MMO. Lobby games can be like that. What makes an MMO an MMO is a persistent world where you play with other players. For all intents and purposes, dynamic events better define the MMO concept than raids. What I’m hearing in a lot of these posts is people locked into an arbitrary definition of what an MMO is because of what an MMO has been. I find that the saddest part of this whole thing.

Anet really did want to do something different and a fan base that simple couldn’t adapt to it changed the plan in my opinion. That’s why we’re stuck with stuff like ascended gear and why raids have finally made it here. Because Anet couldn’t change the genre as much as they expected they would be able to. Fair enough I suppose. They have to make the games for players.

But saying I want a coop game because I don’t want to raid? Raiding is NOT what defines an MMO. Raiding has virtually always been an MMO sideshow for a small percentage of the playerbase. We know from many devs over the years that most MMO players don’t raid, so saying I don’t want an MMO because I don’t want to raid is simply not on.

As usual, you completely miss the point of the post.

My point is that you want to play RPGs. MMOs are no longer RPGs in the sense that they are more about the interactive social experiences between players moreso than the virtual roleplay aspect built from MUDs and D&D style games that older MMOs were founded on.

No where in my post did I say anything that raiding made an MMO. I also disagree with that concept because I don’t give two cahoots about it, considering I’m a PvP player.

Well I am a social player. I run a guild of 200 plus people, so yeah, it’s not like I don’t have any friends to play with. However, MMOs have always been about progression and the ways I can progress are extremely limited to me right now.

First of all I live in Australia and while that’s not Anet’s problem I assume that other Australians and other people in Oceanic regions suffer from the same problems.

I tried PvPing and my lag right now is too great to do anything there. I’m pretty much useless. That would go for WvW as well naturally and probably raids.

I no longer get achievement points for dailies, so there’s no progression there. I no longer get experience since I’ve pretty much maxed out my masteries (I"m at 163). I already have 8 legendary weapons, three suits of ascended armor and stuff like the wintersday shoulders.

I could find SOMETHING to do, but very little that really progresses me and to me, RPGs and even MMOs are often about progression.

But my progression is limited, partly by game design, partly by circumstance and partly by personal preference as well.

The problem is without progressing MMOs grow stale pretty quickly.

Obviously it’s not Anet’s fault that I live in Australia.

How We Got Here (Long)

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

Basically what I’m reading here is that you don’t want to play “MMORPGs”, but rather, “co-op/multiplayer RPGs”. MMORPGs have evolved past the “RPG” element towards a social experience. There’s no “role play” left in MMOs because “role play” (the way you want it to be done) can’t be done with a massive community – there’s too much disconnect between different players in expectations and time commitments.

In the past, when MMOs were smaller, role playing was indeed a main focus. I’m thinking back to late 90s/early 2000s Runescape, where the concept of instances and dungeons didn’t exist and many people simply played to make their character reflect them as a person (whether it was combat focused or a complete pacifist). In other words, role playing.

MMOs now don’t have that because they aren’t, if we’re going into semantics, RPGs. They’re more or less an interactive social network, pioneered by the likes of “Second Life”, “IMVU” and such. When we put time into these games, we expect adequate compensation equivalent to the time we put in. Whether we’re a PvP player or a dungeon raider, we expect that our time get adequately compensated.

I don’t disagree with your premise, but I strongly disagree with the way you talk down to people who want more out of this game for the way they want to play it.

How does 10 man make something more of an MMO than 5 man? This is an unreal statement to me.

Playing in a more organized instanced content isn’t what makes an MMO an MMO. Lobby games can be like that. What makes an MMO an MMO is a persistent world where you play with other players. For all intents and purposes, dynamic events better define the MMO concept than raids. What I’m hearing in a lot of these posts is people locked into an arbitrary definition of what an MMO is because of what an MMO has been. I find that the saddest part of this whole thing.

Anet really did want to do something different and a fan base that simple couldn’t adapt to it changed the plan in my opinion. That’s why we’re stuck with stuff like ascended gear and why raids have finally made it here. Because Anet couldn’t change the genre as much as they expected they would be able to. Fair enough I suppose. They have to make the games for players.

But saying I want a coop game because I don’t want to raid? Raiding is NOT what defines an MMO. Raiding has virtually always been an MMO sideshow for a small percentage of the playerbase. We know from many devs over the years that most MMO players don’t raid, so saying I don’t want an MMO because I don’t want to raid is simply not on.

So frustrated with HOT

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

I appreciate your points about immersion and using gliding and wallows to move about. My point is that map wide wp lockouts are a HOT thing, and noodling through pathing isn’t a gameplay enhancing experience from my point of view. I guess there must be a large community of players that do enjoy the hop here, glide there, wallow here, now updraft there sort of thing -but it feels like a non-play time sink thing. Are you really behind enemy lines, or are you simply following a rehearsed protocol to wp? Do you follow different pathing, or do you optimize to minimize time doing it? Is it really game enhancing? There are fun things to do everywhere on the map, but for me, getting there make HOT less attractive. Thank you for your thoughtful responses.

How is this different from Orr, with all the contest waypoints, or southsun…or even a zone like Silverwastes which has three waypoints in the entire zone?

This isn’t something unique to HoT. All three Orr zones are just like this.

So frustrated with HOT

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

A basic question about map accessibility… Log in any time of day – what is the likelihood 75% or more of the HOT wps are locked? This isn’t a question about being a better player, or do I want to participate in the meta, it’s just – hey can I go to an area I’ve been to before? Can I enjoy all of this amazing map? 50% of the map? No not really. I don’t think its fair to say map locking = more challenging content. It just means that for the slice of the day I want to chill out and have some fun I will go some where else. Thank you for starting this thread.

You’re behind enemy lines. It would be immersion breaking if you could simply wp around at any time.

What if you had airships hovering over the pact camps with waypoints on them and no sylvari onboard? Safe harbour?

Have you seen what Modremoth has done to the fleet. It’s not safe up there either.

So frustrated with HOT

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

A basic question about map accessibility… Log in any time of day – what is the likelihood 75% or more of the HOT wps are locked? This isn’t a question about being a better player, or do I want to participate in the meta, it’s just – hey can I go to an area I’ve been to before? Can I enjoy all of this amazing map? 50% of the map? No not really. I don’t think its fair to say map locking = more challenging content. It just means that for the slice of the day I want to chill out and have some fun I will go some where else. Thank you for starting this thread.

You’re behind enemy lines. It would be immersion breaking if you could simply wp around at any time.

Aside from that it’s not really that hard to get pretty much anywhere. If you know how to glide and you know where the nuhock wallows are, you seldom need many way points to be open.

Returning Player

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

The one thing the reply you got neglected to mention was there are raids now in the expansion and they seem to have gotten a positive response.

If you mean is there end game as in gear grind, no not as such. You’re not going to get better stats.

If you mean is there end game as in more challenging content, then yes, the content that exists in Heart of Thorns is more challenging the anything in the base game.

How We Got Here (Long)

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

Heroes really weren’t gated behind content though, not in the sense of something like raids or grind.

Agreed.

As you mention, the Rit took an effort, but nothing on the same scale as a Raid. Gated to specific content, just not overly hard to get through. Then again, I think that GW1 did a better job of teaching players, at least those who stuck with it, to improve their game. By the time people got to some of the more difficult content, the gradual difficulty ramp up had prepared them to some degree.

Of course there were exceptions. Imagine my shock when I discovered that one of my guildies, long after reaching level cap, had never bothered to put points into Soul Reaping on his necro. He was convinced that the game hated him because everyone else had enough energy to get through a fight on their necros while he struggled.

We have that here too. I had a guldie who didn’t realize the 4 downed skill rezzed you, though he’s been playing since launch. Blew me away.

How We Got Here (Long)

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

They didn’t push instanced content, they pushed open world content. That’s the point.

And this is still the case.

The raid team is less than 5% of the dev team. Raids are part of HoT and represent a small fraction of the expansion.

I agree with this. It doesn’t really have to do with what I’m talking about in my OP, though. This is simply a response to someone telling me why what I’m saying is essentially wrong. My argument isn’t that raids shouldn’t exist.

My argument is that specific rewards shouldn’t be locked behind them, as in an entire tier of gear, or functionality. They didn’t do it in Guild Wars 1, and I don’t really see the need to do this here.

It doesn’t matter if 1 person works on raids or 100, if people feel disenfranchised by having something in game that they simply can’t get without spending hours doing content they don’t like.

Agreed. In GW1 the only thing gated behind specific endgame content were skins, and heroes (which were a form of functionality).

Still, feelings are feelings. Fun is a feeling. If it is not fun you are less likely to play, spend money, etc. I totally get that.

Personally I would rather see GW1 HA style rank emotes as the special rewards for content. Nothing that would affect your character’s normal appearance, no functionality, but enough cool factor to make pursuing them worthwhile (to me).

Heroes really weren’t gated behind content though, not in the sense of something like raids or grind. Most heroes came from completing missions. You certainly didn’t need to gear up to get them. They missions were fairly easy.

If you couldn’t do them on your own you could bring up to 7 friends for most of it. Those were more like quests than anything else. If you want to call that gating, go ahead, but it’s nothing like grinding raids for tokens.

The fact is, I don’t think I ever failed an attempt to get a hero. Maybe Razah the first time. But the entire thing required 15 minutes of playing with no real prep.

In other words, through normal gameplay you unlocked those heroes. You didn’t need to gather a team of people since you had heroes already and you could solo most of that stuff.

Empty maps

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

The point I wanted to make was that the system for taxi’ing around is pretty much crap. There wouldn’t be a need to taxi people if the megaserver did it’s job and put players in active maps. So they should either revamp the LFG tool or fix their megaserver system.

^This right here. I am surprised the players just let the system be broken and find a work-around rather than, you know, ask the developers to get it fixed up so that it works as intended. If its doing more harm than good, why even have it in the game in the first place? Also, quite surprised that this is still isn’t fixed even after months of the expac’s release.

Either fix it to work properly, or set up a system that auto-taxi’s or tells people to taxi to another map.

Well players have asked Anet to fix this and Anet is working on fixing this. However, no guarantee fixes are overnight. I’m sure most people realize the megaserver is a big, complex system and takes time to overhaul. Anet has been on it a couple of months already apparently, so I don’t really know what to tell you.

Seems like after all these years, people still think major changes to any game system can be finished and tested in a relatively short time period. It’s just not that simple.

How We Got Here (Long)

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

RP….means….roleplay
MMORPG means massive multiplayer online role playing game…

considering RP alone…role playing the character….
does people actually think that the character get strong overnight?
the character must undergo some training, repeating things to strengthen and continue to strengthen by repeating training, that is where grinding come about.

but if is a long leveling process, people then complain about the grind for leveling, it is really hard to satisfy people.

so, end up, they spread the grind to other places like getting items from dungeons.

This is very much why I like the open world more than dungeons. Going into the dungeon I’m fighting the same boss with the same mechanics every time. Every single time. It reduces the game to a game of memory. He raises his arm, dodge in. He moves back, you can stun him or whatever.

In the open world I can participate in taking a town and you know, if I run back later and the town is lost again, it’s not, in my mind, the game centaurs (or whatever) taking the town.

Even in real life, a town can be taken back and forth by the enemy, so it’s easy for me to immerse myself in that content.

Not the same when I’m fighting a single named boss in a dungeon who has three moves and repeats them over and over again.

How We Got Here (Long)

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

There’s a big big difference between asking for a hand out and asking for multiple ways to get things. That’s my whole point and your responses are backing up my very need for this thread.

Most definitely and I likely overstepped my bounds when coming into the thread as there likely was no sort of agenda attached. That isn’t to say having an agenda is bad or good but it just may be shifting the thread off topic from the OP.

We don’t want to run this particular content so we’re entitled. You’ve said the word. You find the content okay, you’re not disliking it, so anyone who does either has to force themselves to do that content or they’re entitled.

I don’t know about you but I think people play games to have fun. Not to run content they don’t enjoy.

And I still maintain that WvW players would want this stuff as much as PvE’ers would, and yet they’d be forced to PvE to get it. Do you think they’re entitled too? Ugly word if you ask me.

People are using the word entitled to make it seem like people want something for nothing. I simply want to have options to get stuff without having to do something long term that I don’t have fun in a game.

I’m pretty sure that’s not what entitled means.

Well do you or do you not feel entitled to having a specific gear set offered to your through a means you prefer? So what if they did offer earnable Viper’s sets outside of Raids but locked it behind jumping puzzles? That does nothing for me as I’ll do a jumping puzzle once and likely never again. So now I have to do these jumping puzzles or Raids if I want it?

Or they can just save us all the trouble and make them sellable and no one has to worry about what they do as long as they grind?

In my perspective, I don’t care either way. I’ve yet to even do a single raid and don’t have any plans as of yet for it (uhg, got too much other crap to grind…). But there is such a thing as entitlement and you can be one of three: you are entitled to something, you feel entitled to something or you don’t. It’s not a bad thing, IMO, to feel entitled to something but when you’re not you’re not.

Most people will agree that raiding is over all more exclusive than most jumping puzzles. The point here is exclusivity. The amount of commitment one must make to get through something. I wouldn’t lock anything behind the mad king’s tower’s jumping puzzle either.

If the full range of options were offered in each play type, we’ve have a choice. I wouldn’t mind WvWing for legendary gear or trinkets. In fact, I really liked WvW and the only reason I don’t play it is because I don’t want to exclude guildies who aren’t on my server. If that gets fixed, I expect to spend a lot more time in WvW.

I tend to find PvP infuriating. I really don’t like it. I like it less than raiding. My problem with raiding is being able to do anything on a schedule. I didn’t have to until now, so I don’t know why I have to now. It’s simply a change to the game I don’t like.

I don’t care if it’s a very long term goal or it’s hard to get. That’s not my issue and has never been my issue.

The easiest solution, and one they used in Guild Wars 1, was to make this stuff sellable. If you got a top end weapon in Guild Wars 1, you could sell it. Tormented weapons were some of the hardest weapons to get in the game and people sold them.

By making it account bound, raiders can get it and screw everyone else. Sorry but that’s not what I signed on for.

How We Got Here (Long)

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

So what do you say to people who want viper trinkets to finish their build? Do they also have an agenda?

Not to sound dismissive, I’d tell them to stop feeling so entitled. It’s just a stat distribution, not gear. If you can’t use Viper’s, use something else to complete your build. If you’re OCD and you just have to have everything the same nomenclature, it’s called a disorder for a reason…

The game shouldn’t just hand you everything you want your way all the time. And I’m not saying people who complain want everything handed to them but as a gamer, games should challenge you and push you out of your comfort zone for specific rewards. So long as the game doesn’t force you to have it, it’s not an actual issue, but a manufactured issue that is case-by-case depending on the player.

That all said, I’d just suggest the devs release those gear sets through other means but that doesn’t really solve anything, it just quiets those who would be satisfied with the solution and leave all else excluded.

There’s a big big difference between asking for a hand out and asking for multiple ways to get things. That’s my whole point and your responses are backing up my very need for this thread.

We don’t want to run this particular content so we’re entitled. You’ve said the word. You find the content okay, you’re not disliking it, so anyone who does either has to force themselves to do that content or they’re entitled.

I don’t know about you but I think people play games to have fun. Not to run content they don’t enjoy.

And I still maintain that WvW players would want this stuff as much as PvE’ers would, and yet they’d be forced to PvE to get it. Do you think they’re entitled too? Ugly word if you ask me.

People are using the word entitled to make it seem like people want something for nothing. I simply want to have options to get stuff without having to do something long term that I don’t have fun in a game.

I’m pretty sure that’s not what entitled means.

How We Got Here (Long)

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

Why do you think only raiders would be interested in this..

Because you yourself amongst other have stated this in the past and that only speedrunners and min/maxers would ever want mutiple sets and even defended against needing ascended as having changing stats because of it.

Legendary is not realistically a tier. Not in the same way exotic is to ascended. Legendary adds at most, convenience and is the perfect reward for hardcore content, since few would ever put so much effort into getting a full set of legendary armour just for stat switching, when getting multiple ascended would be incredily easier and still require roughly the same number of double clicking to equip. What it adds, is an exclusive skin.

Regardless, we should all be well aware Anet never stick to what they say. You as a rightfully staunch defender over the years of the “manifesto” are only too aware that most of what Anet say is subject to changes as their business and visions evolve. Pretty certain we will one day see legendary armour as a reward outside of raids, but for now I believe it is in the right place as an ‘early access’.

Well, we won’t if people don’t point it out as a problem. However, I’m more interested in the other side of this debate. I think people just need to know that not everyone that doesn’t want to raid is necessarily lazy or incapable. Some of us just don’t enjoy it.

You can not want to raid and still enjoy a challenge…just a different type of challenge.

How We Got Here (Long)

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

I’m not sure why an interesting discussion has to have a single over-arching purpose. Sometimes, you can talk about something because it interests you, without having some major agenda, no?

I guess you’re right there. But then ultimately, the true purpose rises up:

“If I started raiding, within months, I’d be looking for another MMO, because ultimately it’s too much time playing something I’m not personally enjoying. Since most of my other goals have been accomplished, why lock legendary armor behind raids exclusively? How does that help raiders?”

To me, there’s just never enough time in the day to do all the things I want to accomplish or enjoy doing so I guess ‘purpose-less’ things kind of irk me (looking at you FB) so I’ve always got my eye on what purpose things serve.

So the issue is that this Legendary Armor (lol I don’t have as much time to browse the forums like I used to!) is going to be locked into Raiding. Firstly, I never really cared about keeping up with the Logan’s (as someone joked) so as long as the armor isn’t statistically better than Ascended, there’s no real problem not having it at all. Secondly, there’s always looking at perspective: as a game designer, what would you put at the end of hard repeatable content that will keep the playerbase engaged with the content? You can’t put nothing there. You can’t just hand it out easily. You can’t allow it to be bland or useless. While I can understand the discontent with having story gated into the raids, I can’t feel bad about locking legendary armor. I’ve gone all these years without a legendary weapon and only recently began manufacturing some ascended weapons out of necessity to have some goal to reach (not to get more powerful but to save on inventory space!). The difference is need and want.

Now what the game needs, IMO, is balancing its content. WvW kinda got some overhauls but only after years of waiting. PvP is constantly getting updates and now we’ve got Raiding as a different type of content. The main thing I’d say the game needs is to make sure there is a separation between PvE content and Raiding as well as Dungeon/Fractals.

That said, there will be that friction between what people want. Best to just accept that and post what it is you want and hope that the devs listen for future releases.

Legendary armor, certain trinkets which you can only get from raiding at this time. And of course future rewards.

The issue is that I’m out of goals and locking goals behind something I’m not likely to enjoy is annoying, but that’s not the only agenda here and if you believe it is you’re fooling yourself.

My biggest agenda, if I had to pick one, was letting people know not everyone who doesn’t want to raid can’t do it, is lazy, or wants to press 1 to win.

That’s the bigger agenda.

So what do you say to people who want viper trinkets to finish their build? Do they also have an agenda?

How We Got Here (Long)

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

Except an entire tier isnt really locked behind raids. Legendary and ascended are essentially the same, except you can switch stats on the fly, something that is neglible outside of raids anyway and just something they added as a tiny extra.

Essentially these raids are for skins and minis. This is no different to GW1. And not forgetting certain greens in GW1 were locked behind hm dungeons. Again they werent essential either as they were on par with what could be found or made, its just they came pre parcelled for convenience.

Disliking raids and what the bring is fine. Disliking them because they bring exclusive tiered rewards is not applicable to this game at this time.

Switching stats on the fly would be awesome for someone who both WvW’s and PvE’s. I want to run zerker in PvE but I don’t want to necessarily run zerker in WvW. Why do you think only raiders would be interested in this.

It’s a new tier of gear with a new color. Stats are the same but the functionality is not. You can’t say it’s not a new tier of gear, when clearly it’s a new tier officially.

How We Got Here (Long)

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

The dungeon team was dsibanded pretty early on though and Anet said directly fractals would be their dungeons moving forward. They’re pretty clearly not the center of the game. By percentage, dungeons were a very small part of this experiment. And one that got abandoned pretty early on.

I put Fractals and Dungeons together as instanced content. From November 2013 to November 2015 we had absolutely no new instanced content, 2 whole years of nothing. But that doesn’t mean there aren’t players who bought the game for the challenging instanced content and the great combat system. There are also players who bought the game for the skill-focused (not gear/level focused) PVP , those who bought it for the massive battles of server vs server warfare and others.

I’m only arguing against the idea that this game is all about a living/breathing world and anyone who bought it for anything else wasn’t well informed. The devs chose to abandon dungeons/fractals, the devs chose to abandon PVP (catering only to the “pros” for a very long time) and WvW has been on its own slowing dying for years as well. But all these existed at release, and were heavily advertised to exist in the game before its release, and players bought the game for these “features”. They didn’t buy it only for the living world dream.

GW2 != Living World alone. And it’s about time they started doing something for the other parts of the game. PVP Leagues, upcoming WvW update and Raids are all features that cater to a completely neglected part of the playerbase.

Yes, Guild Wars 2 doesn’t equal living world alone. But what does this have to do with my premise. It doesn’t matter if you and 30% of the player base adore raids. That’s not the issue.

Many of us came to this game because it was casual and fun and everyone could get top rewards if they pretty much just played for long enough. Even legendary weapons that required 9 runs of a single dungeon path could be done more casually over time, yes even Arah. We could run the dungeon once, recover for a month and run it again and in 9 months we could get enough tokens to buy our legendary. Raiding requires far more of a commitment. But the only way to get legendary armor is to raid. People who have run out of goals, like me, have a perfect goal in legendary armor, but I’d have to focus on something long term I don’t enjoy.

Even dungeon skins you could get through PvP all along, so there were two ways to get those.

You keep saying there is instanced content in this game. That’s true. But in no case in this game has an entire tier of gear, functionality, been locked behind a single type of content that requires the commitment of raids.

You might say that well, if you wanted sinister trinkets and such, you’d have to do really hard achievements (at least hard for some people) but none of those achievements required the commitment of raids.

And for some people even that was too hard, anyway.

The point is, locking anything away behind one game type that many people don’t enjoy (whether they can do it or not) is just bad for the game in my opinion.

I’m not talking about unique skins here. I’m talking about unique functionality. I have legendary weapons but I’ll probably never have legendary armor, because if I forced myself to do something I don’t enjoy I’d end up leaving the game.

So unless you think it’s reasonable to lock a tier of gear behind a single content type, I don’t even know what you’re posting about. Clearly I’m not the only person who came here to get away from stuff like raids. I left Rift because it was a raid centric game and once I leveled a couple of times I was done.

Have your raids. Enjoy them. But don’t lock an entire tier of gear, something functional behind them, because if you do, you create kitten and them mentality that many of us came here to get away from.

How We Got Here (Long)

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

They didn’t push instanced content, they pushed open world content. That’s the point.

And this is still the case.

The raid team is less than 5% of the dev team. Raids are part of HoT and represent a small fraction of the expansion.

I agree with this. It doesn’t really have to do with what I’m talking about in my OP, though. This is simply a response to someone telling me why what I’m saying is essentially wrong. My argument isn’t that raids shouldn’t exist.

My argument is that specific rewards shouldn’t be locked behind them, as in an entire tier of gear, or functionality. They didn’t do it in Guild Wars 1, and I don’t really see the need to do this here.

It doesn’t matter if 1 person works on raids or 100, if people feel disenfranchised by having something in game that they simply can’t get without spending hours doing content they don’t like.

How We Got Here (Long)

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

I appreciate how genuine this post is. But I fundamentally disagree with its conclusion.

I dabbled in a couple of mmo’s before guild wars 2, but never really got hooked on any others. What hooked me on guild wars 2 was the active combat and cooperative open world mechanics.

I can dodge. I can move while attacking. I don’t have 4 skill bars worth of skills. There’s no kill stealing. No node stealing.

For my first year, I enjoyed the open world. It’s beautiful. Quests appear to have meaning. There’s always another nook to explore.

But, eventually, you discover everything. Yes, anet had living story releases, but you beat those too. So what kept me in game? Fractals and dungeons. I just love the combat. Can’t get enough.

So raids? They help bring out some of those combat mechanics. And they do a really good job in doing it.

I can see why people are upset. There’s no real exploration in the new zones. Most are somewhat dangerous, so you can’t really stop and smell the roses. And the story was so short that you can beat it in a couple of days.

But you’re not looking for raid content. Please, don’t destroy it. You want more sandbox maps, events like the destruction of lions arch and the zephyrites, and bosses like the marionette. But please understand, we haven’t had new fractals or dungeons for over 2 years. For people like me, who enjoy the combat, this content is tantamount.

So ask for what you’re looking for. New maps. World events. But don’t neuter or slow down raids in the process. It’s ok for people to enjoy different content in this game.

How is not looking an entire tier behind raid rewards destroying raids? Or are you saying people will only raid if you force them to for rewards? I don’t believe dungeon runners are half the player base, even though more than half the player base as run dungeons. I’ve run dungeons dozens of times…each dungeon dozens of times, with the exception of TA Aetherblade and Arah path four which I’ve probably run a dozen times. I do it to help people in my guild if they want something for an achievement, but for much of the time I find it to be more of a chore.

Yes, there are those who love dungeons and raids, but if they’re not a majority you shouldn’t create rewards just for that group that include functionality. In Guild Wars 1, everyone could get top level stuff. What you couldn’t get were skins.

I don’t understand how applying that here would kill raids. I’m not anti raid. I’m anti-taking away goals that might help keep people playing who don’t want to raid.

If I started raiding, within months, I’d be looking for another MMO, because ultimately it’s too much time playing something I’m not personally enjoying. Since most of my other goals have been accomplished, why lock legendary armor behind raids exclusively? How does that help raiders?

How We Got Here (Long)

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

The issue is that this game once provided me with an experience I enjoyed and I enjoy it less now due to a perceived change in focus. I’m not sure how that isn’t an issue, or how much clearer I could have really said this.

When this game launched, dynamic events and the open world gave me more of the feeling I was looking for than either raids or PvP. Those things are going to be more focused on now than the were in the past, which is something that takes away from my personal enjoyment. Others seem to have similar issues. But I thought why we have this issues would be interesting to look at as well.

Okay, this seems a lot clearer. I guess I did what Fade to Black.7042 did and just lost your points in all of your paragraphs. But if what I quote is actually your issue, wouldn’t it be better to suggest more “back to basic” maps to explore? Go through old maps with busted events? Add or update events as stories evolve? I’m still super hyped for the game if they really do have Tengu or another race in the works as playable because there will be a lot of what I like added to the game.

I’m just unsure of what this thread is attempting to do besides provide the cliche “this game isn’t for you” response.

I will add though, after playing more and more in the HoT maps, some of those events are pretty interesting and enjoyable but I definitely wouldn’t want all maps to become as predictable, stale or frustrating as Silverwastes, Drytop and Verdant Brink (respectively) are and bring things back to basics.

Well one thing this thread is trying to do is to educate against certain generic and seemingly automatic responses. I said I don’t enjoy raiding and people immediately assume I can’t raid, I’m not good enough to raid, or that I’m lazy and want to hit 1 to beat everything, none of which is the case.

People assume that because I don’t want to see rewards locked behind a single content type that I’m entitled without having any context at all.

And maybe some devs are younger and newer and aren’t even aware that some of us come here from a completely different background.

I’m not sure why an interesting discussion has to have a single over-arching purpose. Sometimes, you can talk about something because it interests you, without having some major agenda, no?

How We Got Here (Long)

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

Didn’t read the thread but only OP post.
I agree what Vayne said, and my conclusion is that MMOS aren’t for you. People who like playing MMOS like to compete against other players, you’ll find friends bc at some point you don’t want to be alone, and you’ll have a good time with them for example beating Raid boss, doing guild runs etc…
People who really don’t like this game or any game, just don’t come here braging about it, they just leave and move on, they simply doesn’t care about the game.

I don’t understand what are you trying to say? complain about something that isn’t working ? just drop an idea, what would you like gw2 to have.

I too like you started playing rpg with papers and dices, rpg and mmos are nothing alike, if you want to have the rpg feeling of progressing exploring dungeons doing a quest just go play Baldur’s Gate or something like that.

This is pure projection on this part. Even years ago, Scott Hartsman who was the lead designer of Rift said straight out that developers couldn’t afford to ignore people who solo in MMOs. Wildstar devs, who designed their game around dungeons and raids said that they really didn’t get that more people would want less competitive content and apologized and tried to add that content. And a Loitro dev said directly that less than 10% of Lotro EVER raided or PvPed since launch.

Even Guild Wars 2, before launch in the FAQ, had a question about soloing content. So obviously if a signficant portion of the playerbase is soloing they’re not playing the game to compete.

Then there are people play RP or play MMOs for social reasons. And then there are people like the over 200 people in my guild who just play the game to have fun with friends.

If you have data to prove what you’re saying I’d love to hear it, because it seems to me that many people, including many developers believe that a huge portion of the MMO crowd are casual. For example, of the hardest raids in WoW, Ghostcrawler himself said only 5% finished them. And hard core players continually complain how these games keep getting more and more dumbed down. I’m not sure why you think MMO players on the whole are so competitive.

How We Got Here (Long)

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

If I recall the term “living breathing world” appeared later in the game’s lifetime and not at release, or even during the first couple of months. The “Living World” came later on and part of the game that was sold included instanced content. All the early releases included instanced content, Ascend to Madness, Trix’s mini-dungeon etc It’s not like they hated instanced content

Druid is an excellent DPS and offensive support option, enhancing the damage of the entire group with multiple buffs. They have both power and condition damage builds that have nothing to do with healing.

Hard mode option was added much later in GW1 lifetime, at that point it was much needed to keep the older content relevant.

We don’t even have ONE complete Raid, we don’t know what exactly will be needed to craft the complete Legendary armor, and yet people are asking for a reduced difficulty setting already.

Nope, the living breathing world was something they talked about long before launch. At conventions and on panels.

However, I think what they were referring to there wasn’t so much Living Story as much as the dynamic and meta event chains (Living Story is awful, because it locks people out of the world if they don’t have time to truly live two lives).

Sure, but I’m not talking about living story either. I’m talking about a living breathing world. The comment I was responding to was talking about dungeons. My argument is that though Anet did mention dungeons sometimes, they never really claimed dungeons were a focus of the game. They didn’t push instanced content, they pushed open world content. That’s the point.

It wasn’t the main focus of the game yes. But they pushed dungeons too. If you take a look at the release page, there are quite a few dungeons on that list.

In 2012: Ascend to Madness, Fractals of the Mists (massive dungeon update less than 3 months after release), Tixx’s Infinirarium (yes it was a dungeon)

In 2013: Molten Facility, Canach’s Lair (advertised as dungeon, although it was more like a single fight, I remember the rage when it wasn’t an actual dungeon), Aetherblade Retreat, Aetherpath, Fractured update got us 1 new Fractal and 4 re-releases of old dungeons as fractals (Thaumanova Reactor, Molten Furnace, Aetherblade, Captain Mai Trin Boss and Molten Boss)

2014: No actual dungeons but we got the Living World Season 2, which was heavily focused on instances story wise and some of those instances were quite good candidates for maybe new fractals.

2015: Spirit Vale first opened

Focused on it? No. But there were a LOT of regular dungeon releases during the first year. Then they suddenly completely stopped releasing new dungeons or caring for dungeons entirely. Why wouldn’t anyone who bought the game on the premise that it has challenging instance content, not continue to expect such? Given their regular dungeon/instanced releases? Only to see it all suddenly vanishing and disappearing.

November 2013 was the last month with any instanced content update, and yes after that they did nothing for instances. But that wasn’t true for the rest of 2013 and 2012.

The dungeon team was dsibanded pretty early on though and Anet said directly fractals would be their dungeons moving forward. They’re pretty clearly not the center of the game. By percentage, dungeons were a very small part of this experiment. And one that got abandoned pretty early on.

How We Got Here (Long)

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

If I recall the term “living breathing world” appeared later in the game’s lifetime and not at release, or even during the first couple of months. The “Living World” came later on and part of the game that was sold included instanced content. All the early releases included instanced content, Ascend to Madness, Trix’s mini-dungeon etc It’s not like they hated instanced content

Druid is an excellent DPS and offensive support option, enhancing the damage of the entire group with multiple buffs. They have both power and condition damage builds that have nothing to do with healing.

Hard mode option was added much later in GW1 lifetime, at that point it was much needed to keep the older content relevant.

We don’t even have ONE complete Raid, we don’t know what exactly will be needed to craft the complete Legendary armor, and yet people are asking for a reduced difficulty setting already.

Nope, the living breathing world was something they talked about long before launch. At conventions and on panels.

However, I think what they were referring to there wasn’t so much Living Story as much as the dynamic and meta event chains (Living Story is awful, because it locks people out of the world if they don’t have time to truly live two lives).

Sure, but I’m not talking about living story either. I’m talking about a living breathing world. The comment I was responding to was talking about dungeons. My argument is that though Anet did mention dungeons sometimes, they never really claimed dungeons were a focus of the game. They didn’t push instanced content, they pushed open world content. That’s the point.

How We Got Here (Long)

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

They mentioned that the game would feature a living, breathing world before launch.

August 9th, 2011

My name is Angel Leigh McCoy, and I’m one of several writers on the Guild Wars 2 design team. We’ve been molding Tyria into a living, breathing world, and I’m here to share some audio clips of in-game dialogue and give you some insight into the sylvari, Tyria’s newest race.

I guess I should’ve said “they wouldn’t only deal with a living/breathing world”, since a lot of the earlier releases had a dungeon somewhere. Better now?

I simply looked at the percentage of time they spoke about a living breathing world and the amount of time they spent talking about instances, particularly dungeons. Dungeons were always there, but they were never the focus of the advertising.

How We Got Here (Long)

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

If everyone was given the best stuff Just for participating there would be no progression, nothing to work for and would be very boring for the majority. Once you finish the story, then what?? The game is over?? Trying to get your niche experience from a game not designed for it is kind of crazy Tbh.

But that’s exactly how it was in Guild Wars 1, and Guild Wars 1 did fine that way. Why do you think so many people were annoyed by ascended gear?

In Guild Wars 1 we had elite armors and we had normal armors and they were the same in fuction and stats, the only difference was the skins.

We had great weapon skins like the volatic spear, the celestical compass, but the only difference between that and much cheaper weapons was the skin. There was no difference in functionality at all. It worked for five years for Guild Wars 1 and would have continued working except Anet wanted to make a game to take the world to places they couldn’t do within the confines of Guild Wars 1.

That didn’t have to include tiers of gear locked behind specific content. A really awesome skin would have done the same job.

How We Got Here (Long)

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

This thread confuses me.

So what is the issue here? The suggestion?

From what I can figure, you’ve had a past experience with some fashion of RPGs and you want an MMO to recapture that?

To me, my most interesting and influential RPG experiences were via online thread/skype. The story was partly within each character and the reward was revealing more about characters and how they fit in the world. No armor, trinkets, baubles, etc (although if you wanted them for your character you could certainly seek them). Could there be another online game that accomplishes the same? Maybe…only 1 I can think of off the top of my head, but even then, it’s only approaching similarity. It won’t ever reach those thread/skype sessions.

Taking what games like GW2 are, they’re just experiences. Different ones. I never seen the point of affording effort to discussing what something isn’t. Save the effort discussing what something could be…or just creating that ‘could be’ outcome yourself…but then I consider myself a creator. I think I enjoy creating a ‘thing’ more than I like getting in that ‘thing’ and test driving it.

The issue is that this game once provided me with an experience I enjoyed and I enjoy it less now due to a perceived change in focus. I’m not sure how that isn’t an issue, or how much clearer I could have really said this.

When this game launched, dynamic events and the open world gave me more of the feeling I was looking for than either raids or PvP. Those things are going to be more focused on now than the were in the past, which is something that takes away from my personal enjoyment. Others seem to have similar issues. But I thought why we have this issues would be interesting to look at as well.

How We Got Here (Long)

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

If I recall the term “living breathing world” appeared later in the game’s lifetime and not at release, or even during the first couple of months. The “Living World” came later on and part of the game that was sold included instanced content. All the early releases included instanced content, Ascend to Madness, Trix’s mini-dungeon etc It’s not like they hated instanced content

Druid is an excellent DPS and offensive support option, enhancing the damage of the entire group with multiple buffs. They have both power and condition damage builds that have nothing to do with healing.

Hard mode option was added much later in GW1 lifetime, at that point it was much needed to keep the older content relevant.

We don’t even have ONE complete Raid, we don’t know what exactly will be needed to craft the complete Legendary armor, and yet people are asking for a reduced difficulty setting already.

Nope, the living breathing world was something they talked about long before launch. At conventions and on panels.

How We Got Here (Long)

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

Tailoring a game to 4-5 people is really easy, in an MMORPG you have loads of players so what do you do? Tailor it to some unofficial “majority”? Anything that isn’t doable or desirable by that “majority” should be removed or tweaked so they can do it?

If I feel disenfranchised I’m going to feel that way, fair or not.

And anyone who bought the game for the instanced based content has been disenfranchised for years. When was the last dungeon added to the game?

Anyone who bought the game for the instanced content paid very little attention to the advertisements prior to the game’s launch. The words living breathing world were mentioned over and over again. What part of that makes you think instanced content.

Yes there was a page devoted to dungeons but most of the rhetoric was about dynamic events and living breathing worlds. I knew it was the focus long before the game launched.

They also said there was no dedicated healer class, which changed a bit with raids, considering the ranger’s elite spec is a healing spec and if you don’t want to heal, well too bad.

The game was never sold to be focused on instances. Where as Anet did say repeatedly that the game centers on dynamic events.

As for tailoring a game to 4-5 people of course that’s impossible. But then, putting in something for say 20% of the people and locking rewards behind it isn’t exactly going to make you a hero either.

Raids with multiple difficulties but must lower rewards for the lower ones and special skins for the higher ones would have solved the problem.

I mean Guild Wars 1 had a normal mode and a hard mode for every dungeon, so we know this company can do that.

The question is why they decided not to do that.

How We Got Here (Long)

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

Even in single player RPGs rewards are “locked” behind specific content. Putting specific rewards behind specific content is how every RPG work, and that’s how MMORPGs work (Because they are RPGs)

In pen and paper RPG that content is always tailored for the players. As a good GM, you’d never put a reward one of the players might care about behind a content/quest that player would dislike. And if you found out this was the case mid-adventure, you’d redesign on the fly to avoid that problem.

RPGs are way more than you make them, dungeon hack’n’slash campaigns are practically the lowest, most crude form of it.

Obviously I was talking about video game RPGs, which is what MMORPGs are. GMs can’t exist in video games

GMs can exist in online games at least, because they do, but in essence you are right. However, I used to have a conversation with new GMs back in the day when I was considered sort of a well known GM back in high school. What I said back then and maintain to this day is the the success of the game will be based on the GM’s ability to tailor the content to the group.

That means that if you make it too hard so no one will succeed, you won’t be a popular GM. If you make it so easy that it’s a cake walk and there’s no chance of not succeeding your players will get bored.

There’s always a middle ground. The problem is, as you’ve pointed out, there is no GM here, but the devs have to work with the same guildlines reguardless

If the game is too easy people get bored and if 70% of the game can’t or won’t (it really doesn’t matter) participate in an area of the game where they give exclusive rewards, then the devs have to prepare for backlash.

This isn’t about being fair. It has nothing to do with fairness. Everyone paid for the core game and the core game didn’t have raids, and futhermore had nothing remotely like them. We all bought the expansion based on what he knew from the core game. Where the game has significantly diverged for that the company has paid the price in the good will of veteran players.

Basically the happier you were with the game before the expansion the less likely you are to forgive the changes that made the game less enjoyable for you.

Now, having hit the level cap for achievement points and having nothing but long term goals left, I’ve hit the point of diminishing returns. I don’t think I should be forced to play content I don’t enjoy and I don’t think giving players like me nothing to work towards is really the best alternative to keep us playing.

You can say it’s not fair if you like but that doesn’t really matter in the scheme of things. If I feel disenfranchised I’m going to feel that way, fair or not.

What do you need to keep playing GW2

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

New classes are probably never going to happen. If they do happen it’s going to be waaaay in the future. New classes wouldn’t do much for me personally anyway.

The skill system I get what you’re saying more, but then I played games were I used the same 5-10 skills anyway. It wasn’t that they were tied to weapons they were simply the most effective. It’s not like a game with 50 skills saw me using more than ten of them in most cases.

In Guild Wars 2 I get around that by switching up my builds sometimes, or using different weapons, which does change the game for me.

The elite specializatoins that game with HOT added some variety, but this is never going to be a game about more skills. There’ll be some more, but if you only play THE most effective build, you’re going to be limited in weapon sets and you might get bored. Nature of the beast really.

That’s why I focus on different alts of different classes at different times.

I need more stories and more zones, over more classes and more skills. I don’t really care much about raids or PvP, but I do care about story and lore and exploration.

So I guess my want list would be different from yours. Perhaps different from most peoples.

Lock on sending items/coin is outrageous

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

Anet has reasons for protecting their interests. The first month of an MMO for most people, assuming it is a month (which I’m not sure it is), is usually just learning how to play the game and leveling. Sending items is protection against gold sellers. It might not be an elegant solution but it doesn’t hurt to be careful. Saying trading is the most basic thing in an MMO is probably not true, or at least not true anymore. Lots of MMOs are taking different paths now to protect them from gold sellers, so it’s probably more of an issue than most people think.

I had an account which I bought for $10 that got a very very lucky drop from a black lion chest after doing the level 10 story. I had to wait a couple of weeks before I could send the money made on that transaction to my main account.

Sure it was frustrating. I also understand why those safeguards are in place. It’s to protect the game from gold sellers, which can totally screw up the economy.

Was I frustrated? Sure I was. Did I complain? No, I didn’t. Because over the length of time I play an MMO, a couple of weeks is virtually nothing.