Guild Wars 2

Imagine a ranger with toughness, vitality, condition damage, and healing power

Imagine him with axe/toch and sword dagger

Imagine him and cry

The mods are limited so people like him dont exist

jportell.2197:

Please keep it coming the more people on this thread that argue against nerfing an already buggy skill thus pulling the useful weapons for mesmers down to wait for it 2. GS and Staff the better off mesmers will be. And if they get PR nerfed then mesmers just as well give up and reroll what ever the entire community thinks you should play because we are obviously the redheaded step child of the player base.

All the people talking against it actually are mesmers (thats what we called bias boys and girls). Find me one thief who thinks retreat and leap are fine. Find me a thousand mesmers who think you should keep it and that wouldnt mean nothing because this thread is about what the players base thinks, not what the mesmer base thinks. We already know what you think.

And how come you can complain about only having 3 conditions remove skills? Warriors get two but god forbid they complain about anything. Why do all of you mesmers seem so afraid of compromise, its like this NOPE IM PERFECT DONT TOUCH ME attitude with all of you guys oh my god.

Takato.4976:

Or like, CoE lasers you need to avoid, this would actually be fun

until you get CC’d into them

jportell.2197:

Low skill cap? What class has an absolutely high skill cap in this game? Warriors and guardians just sit there and beat on each other without moving or thinking tactically. Thieves have stealth and the ability to spam certain attacks over and over and over,

You just completely generalized 3 groups of players based on nothing, how are we supposed to take you serious if this is your attitude? I guess maybe anybody who doesnt wear light armor plays an easy class?

Get over yourself, retreat and leap should still be used to avoid damage, but they shouldnt be available when youve already been caught. If you see a shield bash coming and use retreat to dodge it, that takes skill to do and thats cool. If you get immobilized with aoe under you and use it to get out of the way, thats cool.

If you let yourself get caught cause you used your rolls to make clones instead of dodging and use retreat like a crutch to fix your own mistake, no skill there and that aint cool at all.

SteepledHat.1345:

Some people won’t be satisfied until mes is gone. We all just have to live with those people.

Or give us dervish…
Home boy wants his scythes back

Lordrosicky.5813:

-giving us 3 weapons to swap between NOT just 2.

Mace stun
switch to 100b, 100% crit with trait
switch to axe and eviscerate, also 100% crit with sigil

no class gets 3 weapons
absolutely not

Also you get a signet that removes all conditions and rune of lyssa which cures all conditions, then shake it off. You got plenty of ways.

Warriors arent bad

SteepledHat.1345:

Another mesmer complaint thread, thought we were past this.

why would we be past this? nothing has changed

jportell.2197:

A) Wont be dealt with at all and you should just figure out when to time your stuns.

Okay lets play along with this

Lets say Im a mace CC warrior
Shield bash 30 seconds
Skull crack 3 stacks of adrenaline and 10 seconds
Bull charge 40 seconds
Gotta switch off weapons after skull crack to do damage, this adds extra 10 seconds to the cycle

And lets say you have
Retreat 12 seconds
Blink 30 seconds
distortion 60 seconds

Okay so me and you are fighting, I land the first skull crack, you phase retreat, 12 seconds CD which means only if I land another skull crack at the exact second it recharges, ill hit you 2 seconds before retreat recharges. Even if I manage to hit you perfectly 2 seconds before, you have blink. Thats another 10 seconds for me and youre retreat is up for the next time.

So heres the next skull crack, you retreat through it making me have to hold off another 10 seconds to have skull crack available, and for this one you can distort

okay you distorted, 10 seconds for me and by the next time i stun you can either retreat or blink again

I’d have to stun you two more times to get through retreat and blink, and thats if I land it exactly when the CD is over which lets be honest, its hard to do.

So lets count here, I would have to stun you perfectly every 10 seconds with no window of error 5 times over 50 seconds in a row just to get one clean shot.

So if I have to land 5 perfect skull cracks the second the recharge just to get a hit on you, and all you have to do is hit retreat once you get stunned, whos the one here really trying to use skill?

Quote this message and tell me this is fair, you’d be lying if you did

So the only people in this thread who object are people who play mesmers?

Big surprise.

Darnis.4056:

100b can’t beat staff mesmer? QQ

Why Do you think that Staff even has “Phase retreat” , It’s not “Phase Get 100b’d to death” all it does is move you, you are still unable to move if you’re immobilized or stunned.

You’re just trying to dumb down the game so the only class that’s playable is Instagib.

Working As Intended.

Who said anything about 100b?
Lets say a thief uses his elite skill to stone you for two seconds, you move back and yeah youre still stunned but you just avoided 2 seconds worth of stunned damage with a skill that aint even a stun breaker, by the time he runs over to you youll just be able to roll out or knock back. Technically, thats a broken stun and thats what blink is for, phase retreat should be just a kite move

SAtaarcoeny.8476:

jportell.2197:

I’m down with that. But you do not decide what we as a class can or cannot keep. And this is the first thread I have seen where ANYONE gripes about an iLeap in terms of it being too powerful or that its working better than what you think. It really is the first I’ve seen it in PVP WVW or the mesmer threads.

lol yes it is the first IL complaint

i think ppl are just on the ban wagon this past month trying to get mesmer nerfed. i dont get it or see where they are coming from. if you are good a 1v1 battle v a mesmer will come down to who has more CD up.

like i said before if you want to nerf something on a mesmer the only thing is the staff blink should have a higher cd but truthfully i dont even think that i have seen every class beat XEE and other staff mesmers in paids so it can be done.

stop trying to take the easy way out by nerfing them if you have L2P questions msg me in game i can teach u to beat us. but stop trying to dumb down the game with posts like this.

Dumb down the game? Youre telling me tweaking one skill of one class is dumbing down the game?

You guys are getting really offended, like mesmers are some perfect thing that should never be touched. Every class could use some tweaking and this is how it happens

jportell.2197:

And both are key to a mesmers play style which is distraction and confusion. And we have VERY few abilities that grant mobility in combat aside from these two. Blink is instant and breaks stun. These other two are not OP as they give a squishy class some semblance of survivability.

If you let yourself get stunned or immobilized as a mesmer, youre playing bad

The skill shouldnt fix your mistakes, you can keep it as long as its disabled during stuns.

SAtaarcoeny.8476:

“blink is fine” nerf the one that takes skill?

sorry i dissagree. blink is so easy to use and illusionary leap to actually use it as a stun break which very few mesmers do actually is quite impressive i wouldnt consider taking that away from them.

Phase retreat doesnt take skill, its one button

swap takes 2 buttons, both are imbalanced

jportell.2197:

It doesn’t break the stun but it is useful for when you are trapped inside a crystal in a dungeon (things of that effect are terrible) and few other skills are able to do that. Even after you do the retreat you are still stunned and not attacking for the duration of the stun… I think that because it is an instant cast and the way Anet designed instant cast abilities they work during stun even if they don’t break stun… So I don’t feel it is a class specific thing but any class that has instant cast abilities.

Everyone has instant abilities, but only mesmers have instant abilities on 12 second CD that can completely ignore careful melee placement at any time with no way to prevent them from doing it.

Listen guys every class has ups and downs, if a warrior tries to frenzy 100b on you, you break the stun and hit him for 50% damage. If a necro is full emphasis on minions and you’re a thief you can use the blind circle to nerf down that incomming damage. The list goes on, but when you play a single target melee class where placement and holding is the most important thing, wheres the real counter against a class that can escape you every 12 seconds NO MATTER what state theyre in.

Everybody tells people who complain about mesmers to just play better, but when you talk about single target melee trying to catch a guy that only has to hit 1 button and poof hes gone, not including the one or two other ways he has to avoid while stunned, it just aint balanced.

TL:DR

all the damage mitigation is fine, dont even touch the numbers

Having all of it available inside of any knockdown, stun, or daze with no way to work around it whatsoever with 2 or 3 completely separate abilities that have 12 to 25 second cooldowns… not fine.

Mesmers should have to retreat to avoid getting stunned, not to move themselves after they do get stunned. The retreat and swap skills should be something that prevents getting caught, not an auto fix for when you do***************************

jportell.2197:

The theory behind the mesmer is distraction and confusion having said that. When the sword 3 stun breaker which I suppose is fine if it isnt but DON’T even think about griping with phase retreat that is our saving grace. Now back to sword three the ability to swap it lasts for a VERY VERY short amount of time and often times because iLeap is SO buggy when the mesmer does swap the clone is behind the actual mesmer (happened to me a lot) or not even to the target… So as far as iLeap is concerned Anet has a lot of work to do with fixing the way this skill performs. If they didn’t intend it as a stun breaker then either fix that it does break stun or fix the tool tip. But also they need to fix how it behaves to begin with.

Keep phase retreat exactly how it is, but it shouldnt be usable during stun, daze, or knockdown. Thats what stun breakers are designed to counter and phase retreat is not a breaker, but it might as well be the way it works

Med.6150:

I am reading the topic and I am not sure whether people are discussing the same skills here, so I will clarify, I suppose:

Mesmer: Staff #2 Phase Retreat is a true instant ability that is not labelled as a stun breaker and in fact does not break stuns. Whether this is meant to be a true instant ability is everybody’s guess. In it’s current form it enables you to avoid tons of damage simply by virtue of being a true instant shadowstep

Mesmer: Sword #3 Illusionary Leap (first step of the chain) is neither instant nor does it break stuns.

Mesmer: Sword #3 Swap (second step of the chain) is a true instant and while it is not labelled as a stun breaker it actually IS one. Whether this is a bug or just a tooltip error, we do not know.

This is exactly what im talking about, phase retreat and sword swap both fall into the category of skills that arent stun breakers but behave like them. Theres a reason break skills have large cooldowns and 12 seconds not including the actual skills is just ridiculous

Ashumet.8674:

Technically spoken the only teleport that is also a stun breaker is Blink, which is a utility skill. There is one leap on the staff that enables you to teleport backwards, but does not remove the stun. The other leap is on the sword, but it requires you to have summoned a clone already (it’s a chain skill) and if you wait too long, it resets.

Blink is on a 24-30 second cd, depending on traits. The staff and sword leaps are on shorter cooldowns.

I think this staff leap you find so problematic is the main mechanic ( and winds of chaos, the AoE) that makes staff such a viable weapon, because it enables you to avoid damage. And that’s what mesmers are all about: avoiding damage by creating illusion.

You could argue that this is not the way mesmers should be playing. In my opinion, it is though. The mesmer wears light armour, which makes it very vulnerable in close combat. That’s why it has blurred frenzy, the leaps, and most mesmers also use at least 1-2 stun breakers as utilities (usually blink, mirror images, decoy). This is a must in the high damage, glass cannon builds most mesmers are currently running because they simply are the best (and only viable mesmer tPvP builds btw).

Just to say that the reason mesmers have these utilities is because the other weapons/utilities don’t match up to the stun breakers in high damage builds.
So you either:
- nerf damage evasion for mesmers (their main mechanic)
- nerf damage output for mesmers so they start playing more defensive builds
- do both of the above slightly (longer cd on staff leap e.g.) and buff the other mesmer weapons (torch, scepter) to make condition/all-round builds equally viable.
- L2play and use high aoe without stuns to seriously pwn mesmers. (which is also why good necros and eles can easily beat mesmers, unlike bad warriors who start off with hundred blades which is so predictable you don’t even have to use a leap but just dodge to avoid it)

If you wanna talk about warriors using AOE to beat a mesmer, their only real aoe skill is the bow F1, which does what like 4k damage with stacked condition damage at a full 3 charges of adrenaline? Yeah mesmers are supposed to use skills like blurred frenzy which is fine but at some point it just gets excessive. I teleport skill even if its part of a chain that is NOT a stun breaker should NOT change your placement while stunned. Having a skill like that on 12 second cooldown on top of the other damage avoidance skills is way too much, not every melee class wants to use aoe.

I agree that mesmers are supposed to avoid damage, but what you basically just said is yeah melee wont work and you need aoe, you should be able to play how you want without being limited by class imbalances, the mesmers avoidance cycles recharge faster than immobilizes and stuns do for melee classes largely because of the 12 second teleport that you can use willie nilly. Dont even try to say its fair because its part of a chain, to start the chain all you have to do is press 1 button.

All that damage avoidance is fine and fair, having a 12 second one that moves stun without breaking it, no thank you.

P.S: Nvm about the thief sword 2 move, I looked at it and it actually is a stun breaker

hharry.1967:

Agree, if it doesnt break stun/knock downs it shouldnt be able to be used, prolly a bug.

Dont think its a bug, thieves get the same thing with their sword skill. Its just not as problematic against thieves

Now before all “you” guys get here, Im not saying mesmers are stupid OP because theyre really not that bad. I do feel however when youve got the 12 second teleport on top of whichever stun breakers youre running, the avoidance skill cycle recharges faster than most melee classes abilities to hold you.

I aint crying, mesmers are alright. They just have too many ways to avoid stuns. Blink is fine the way it is, leap shouldnt work as a stun breaker (for melee) though. Neither should any of the weapon teleports. If it doesnt break stun you shouldnt be able to use it to change your placement WHILE stunned. bottom line