Guild Wars 2

Nobody runs it, its wasted space. making it an F2 burst makes every warrior more useful by default though though.

We could mainhand axe in pvp if it had any kind of mobility to it, that 2 is probably the most useless skill around

You should do it

Im starting to think simba is more useful than most warriors, beast master pets need that nerf, is it really even pvp when your npc does all the work and hits harder than other classes?

Btw not saying rangers need a nerf Im saying the pet dmg and toughness does, it should never outlcass the ranger or other players

Btw im not crying

Revives are almost guaranteed as long as youve at least two guys working on the same person, and mostly a given thing with classes that get invulnerables. It doesnt take as much coordination as some of you leet players would like to think it does to just throw 2 guys on one downed player, honestly with heal speeds like that I tihnk the down heal needs to be limited to either one player at a time or the heal speed nerfed.

You can rage at me down there
V

PowerBottom.5796:

well, if you don’t want people to see your precious builds that are so good and you are the only one that had the right Idea, then don’t allow spectators.

Revealing your playstyle, builds etc. is just a part of games like that.

Dont matter its an issue of privacy, and theres only 3 servers right now disabling spectators why should I be the one sticking to 3 servers?

Gotta put a privacy setting on that

Give us an F2 on our burst skills that uses half the adrenaline

*I feel like this is already being touched on somewhere but I dont/havent checked the forums so Ill post this thread anyway, nobody whine about that please

Who thought that would be a good idea? Making a viable build is half the battle, now we’ve got people with the ability to become cookie cutters and take a trait trees just like that. This isnt good for pvp, were gonna end up with a bunch of copies running around.

1) Warrior
2) not warriors

garethh.3518:

Vision.3541:

Theres no potential for it to turn into anything better the way warriors are, we cant bunker because shout heals take away from stability and without shout heals/condi remove we die, we cant support cause we only give off a few boons at a time with huge CD on banners, we cant burst anymore cause of the frenzy nerf and what are we supposed to do?

You seem to think what i said is ‘warriors are in a better place now’.
I think you should reread the post

It is an MMO, incase that is what you forgot, everything you listed can be rebalanced, seemingly, with a few numeric/placement tweaks.

Weve been needing those tweaks for months, but look what we got instead?

NO
LOVE
FOR
THE
WARRIOR

garethh.3518:

Gotta pull off the training wheels before they can ride with the big boys.

Gonna take some time to fix the class over that haste crutch, with Anets slow balancing it is going to suck balls for a bit of time, but ideally it will turn into something far better in the end.

Theres no potential for it to turn into anything better the way warriors are, we cant bunker because shout heals take away from stability and without shout heals/condi remove we die, we cant support cause we only give off a few boons at a time with huge CD on banners, we cant burst anymore cause of the frenzy nerf and what are we supposed to do?

Were supposed to be MEN

NO LOVE FOR THE WARRIOR JOIN THE SHOUTING MEN

just make warriors the new ranger pet seeing how we’re not even a class anymore
No love for warriors

kaplis.7195:

banner bonuses don’t stack, right?

Who cares, anyone who stacks flags deserves to lose thats not how WARRRRIORS play

good content here, unlike the patch notes for warriors

NO LOVE FOR THE WARRIOR

ensoriki.5789:

Bannerway.
Take a team of 4 Warriors.
3 of them run 4 banners.
1 of them runes 3 banners + kick.
Then throw an Ele in there for good luck.

My team will not accept any rock throwing dress wearers

HAIL THE WARRIOR, NO LOVE FOR THE WARRIOR

Larynx.2453:

Bro, banners. New FOTM meta.

NO!
Men dont fight with flags we are warriors and we wont resort to that

Lukin.4061:

Well you can always surround yourself with flags and kick people every 20 sec just like warrior class was intended

everything is right in the world with this buff

Why are we so abundantly oppressed?

Why cant we just play on par with the other boys and girls?

Why cant we just get some of that TLC weve been asking for these past few months?

Ill tell you why, cause no love for the warrior

This is cristoff jericho and all of you already know im recruiting an all warrior guild and team here to fight this oppression by kicking our way to the top
Join the cause and fight this threat, otherwise we may lose this class in spvp forever

Good teams can lose to kittenty bunkers just because thats how it works now, tournaments needs to be whichever teams kills the other team first no respawns just like back in the day

Seriously guys

Andrew.4576:

He means that the winning team would stay grouped together to face another team until they lose. I would like to see this also. In gw1 they had a system like this and every 5 wins you were awarded a bonus. Sad to see some of the highlights of gw1 couldnt transition into gw2. They had some really solid systems that promoted pvp very well.

I was actually talking about the tournament style from gw1 where its 5v5 and whoever wipes the other team completely wins. No points to cap

Just do it you guys

NinjaEd.3946:

World..Versus..World. Not many wp, party size of 5 (or how many ever with that silly commander buff), kill tons of red/green/blue coats. Not enough? We can launch cows and giant car sized arrows at you as well while defending our tower^^

But all jokes aside, the lore doesn’t support this idea. The races of tyria are supposed to be bonding to take down the dragons not fighting. Currently they don’t support you joining the Inquest, Seperatists, Son’s of Svanir, Flame legion, Nightmare court, etc so it just wouldnt work.

Lore aside, open world for the most part stand alone pvp would be a nice addition. If its story youre worried about any one of us could pump out a reason for the pvp zone to be palatable to the story

I almost want to cringe for bringing this up, but something like what the wilderness in runescape used to be like. How much more exciting would gw2 with a zone like that? No points, no objectives, no NPCs, just open world pvp. Seems like the one thing anet missed out on during development.

Heres my thoughts on it so far:

-Have 2 open pvp zones, 1 like wvw and one with spvp gear. This way everyone gets to enjoy it.

-Party members become friendly, meaning the max team size is 5 members stopping large guild zergs from dominating the area.

-Entrance would be a door that drops you off at one of many locked waypoints to stop spawn camping

-Have something like a random chest spawn every 5 minutes

-Small cooldown on returning after you die

Something like this could be a lot of fun, and lets not forget that gw2 is a game and games are about fun… not qualifying points and ascended gear. Any love for this idea on the forums?

Just so no body gets the wrong idea, Im not talking like 1000glory=1g, Im talking about something SO minor just to make everyone who feels like time spent in pvp hurts your development in PVE like they arent losing cash. Cause really thats why no one spends time in pvp when they pve or vice versa, theres no crossover and doing one for too long hurts the other.

Make glory exchangeable for SOMETHING, bags were a nice start

Just do it.

jportell.2197:

Because these two skills are the mesmers only viable skills for gap openers/closers and once again because they are instant cast I think you are missing the point that fixing the behavior would require looking at all instant cast abilities like say ele cantrips or thieves signets and increasing the cooldown to the number you would like is simply unacceptable because then if you look at all our weapon skills the cooldowns for used/viable weapons is just ridiculously long then. I am feeling that you don’t want the mesmer class to be played how it should be played which is to distract/confuse and so on. All of your arguments here have been to make it so warriors can beat on us more easily which they can already do since there weapon sets have SEVERAL gap closers yet we only have one gap closer one gap opener in weapons and then blink which has a range of 900.

No you wouldnt, its as simple as making retreat and leap 1/4 or 1/8 cast instead of instant then buff you in some other way to compensate. That why you cant break the stun cycle but gain in some other department. Nobody says change instant skills as a whole, were saying make retreat not an instant skill. Come on, at least try. Whats fair for mesmers to get in exchange for making leap and retreat a 1/4 cast time skill.

So youre not willing to do ANYTHING to meet me in the middle? How is any class gonna change if you cant even think of a way to change 2 skills around on just mesmer alone

jportell.2197:

When traited distortion is available every 45 seconds… What else you got for me? And again increasing the CD on retreat would leave us with these cool downs on the staff
Auto Attack: No CD
Phase Retreat: 25 seconds
Phantasm Warlock: 18 seconds
Chaos Armor: 35 Seconds
Chaos Storm: 35 Seconds

Do you want to play on a weapon that has cooldowns this insanely long? ONLY one is under 20 seconds! Lets say the mesmer switches to staff uses all the skills in the 10 seconds then switches to the other set then by the time he switches back to the staff OVER HALF THE SKILLS WILL STILL BE ON CD! Would you use a weapon with a cooldown list like this!? We have already suffered a staff cooldown nerf. We don’t need another to make up for qqers. Aside from that PR is our only weapon skill that is a gap opener.

If thats the case than something can be done about making leap/retreat CDs longer and other skills shorter. Things can be tweaked and everyone can work together on it.

Tell me what you think is fair to get in return for a 25 second retreat?

jportell.2197:

Then buff the weaker classes. They need it even if they continually nerf the mesmer the weaker classes still need buffed. But if you look at my philosophy on balance which is very naive but has good intentions BALANCE WITHIN CLASSES BEFORE BETWEEN CLASSES. And as stated by a dev mesmers are supposed to be slippery stunned or not. So this shouldn’t be an issue because it is working as intended. I still have been owned by warriors as have other mesmers. Yet I never once complain about the insane damage of 100b. If you look at the LONG LONG lists of threads in here and in other subforums you will notice a trend of Nerf this class nerf that class or nerf this build nerf that build. And very few threads with the title hey how do I deal with this class or this build? Does anyone have advice on what to do in situation XYZ. And you will find that the people that reply there are extremely helpful and nice. And the people that post for things needing a buff generally receive a better response. Which is why THIS thread is filled with negativity.

This thread was never about nerfing mesmers, it was about tweaking two skills. Who said it couldnt be made into a compromise that might actually end up in your favor? Like lets say increase the CD on retreat to 25 second and decrease distort to 45 seconds?

Something like that sounds kind of fair dont it? You would lose the ability to break skull cracks every time they rotated but youd gain the ability to distort more often during team fights.

Sounds fair am I right?

jportell.2197:

IF those get extended to 25 seconds then the list of skills that a mesmer has for their weapons under 20 seconds goes even lower. And the sword is the only viable main hand weapon for a mesmer. And how is fixing bugs not as important as balancing vs other classes?! I guarantee that if ANET would stop with the nerf bat and put their effort into fixing bugs in ALL the classes then we wouldn’t even be having this discussion.

Fixing bugs wont buff the weaker classes/weapons, which is why that shouldnt be the priority

jportell.2197:

No and Yes.

I want them to address the long list of bugs that have plagued the mesmer class since BWE1. Duelist Discipline trait isn’t ever freaking spelled correctly and the tooltip reads “Increases range and power of pitol skills” It not only doesn’t do that but it changes it to a 100% combo finisher but cuts the damage in half. So it makes it to powerful but useless in the same trait. I want illusionary leap to actually be able to work on the z-axis instead of just standing there for 3 seconds if you are on a freaking slope (maybe then I would be okay with the swap not breaking stun). I want the clone generated from deceptive evasion to attack what I am targeted on not some random bunny then disappearing making that clone useless. I want our phase retreat to not teleport us into walls there by rendering us useless to our teams. I want our stealth skills to stack like a thieves (unless ANet doesn’t want that to be so). I want our skills that state they block/reflect projectiles to actually do that. If we get hit with barrage from a ranger neither feed back nor mimic work properly. So it wastes our utility slot. Do I think that mesmers are sooo terribly bad off right now absolutely not. But I do hope that we don’t continually suffer nerfs seeing as we have gotten them in every patch since release and there by becoming a useless class.

Also for your reading pleasure a note from Jonathan Sharp in regards to Mesmers and other classes slipperiness:

We want the Thief to be the class that most “slips through your fingers”. Other classes like the Ele and Mes have some of it too (and rightly so), but if anyone is escaping a fight, that should be a slippery Thief.

And I feel this is true thieves can disengage fights much more easily than us (actually we can’t disengage at all seeing as we have no speed buff unless we use a focus thereby forcing us into a weapon choice). So we should be slippery we should be able to open gaps if we get stunned. We aren’t meant to just stand there and let you pound on us stunned or not.

You can have your bug fixes and you should have them, but right now trying to balance out mesmer vs the other classes is more important than bug fixes for the mesmers alone, and that doesnt mean nerf their damage it can be something as small as a few tweaks. First we discuss who needs what changed, like how I believe the CD needs to be 25 second on retreat and leap or it gets changed to a non instant skill disabled during stun.

Every class could use one thing or another changed but this thread specifically is about those two skills, just like theres threads about backstab going around etc

jportell.2197:

and how many classes have weapon skill that recharges faster than that? pretty much all… you are essentially saying that no weapon skill on the staff should recharge faster than 20 seconds aside from one. HOW IS THAT FAIR TO STAFF MESMERS?

So is your plan to keep mesmers exactly the same forever and never touch them no matter what?

Just say yes or no

jportell.2197:

Did you miss the broadcast saying portal is gonna get shared? And yeah I am everywhere sorry but I hate when people feel it necessary to single out a class for no reason.

Doesnt matter if it is, were talking about right now. Right now, no one else has portal so thats another problem

jportell.2197:

It doesn’t BREAK the stun it just moves you. Once you moved you are still stunned and unable to do anything else. And if they increase the kittening cooldown to say 30 seconds then only one skill on the staff aside from auto attack will be available in under 30 seconds NOW HOW IS THAT FAIR?

If youre moved why does it matter, melee still cant touch you. Might as well be broken.

25 second CD and i think thats fair

jportell.2197:

TO CHANGE THIS THEY WOULD HAVE TO CHANGE HOW ALL INSTANT CAST ABILITIES WORK. DO you understand that? The staff has gotten nerfed for mesmer and Ileap/swap is buggy and works maybe 50% of the time if the stars align. Just give up on it you are asking for something to be addressed that is bigger than what you are thinking. Do you not understand that?

Really wouldnt have to, they could just increase the CD

Shield bash is a 1 second stun and that CD is 25 seconds, retreat is a stun breaker and recharges in 12 seconds… See why this is a problem?

jportell.2197:

Portal is getting shared with other classes and other classes have quickness/haste but with drawbacks because they are not elites. Stop whining and figure out how to counter. Sick of it… Srsly.

This guy is everywhere oh my god.
If every team right now needs mesmers because only they get portal, wheres the counter here?!?!?!

jportell.2197:

Im not comparing to thief I am comparing to instant cast. Which as it happens is in all classes. I am just more familiar with the thief. You seem intent on singling out mesmers which is ridiculous.

Okay, and nobody but mesmers have an instant that breaks stun every 12 seconds. Do you not understand why thats a problem?

jportell.2197:

IDC if you are looking at me I am talking about instant cast abilities and this just so happens to be one of them for the thief that fits the same lines as the mesmer skills you are griping about. So I am talking across the board sir. You feel the need to single out our class well I am showing you that it is not just our class yet you seem intent on ignoring said evidence so why I ask? Do you play a thief and don’t want people to notice this? It is instant cast abilities across the board that have this problem. Stop trying to single out mesmers.

Listen
Listen real close cause you keep coming back with this

Nobody cares about steal because it doesnt happen often enough to make a loophole in stuns, nobody cares they can instant step once every 45 seconds. Literally nobody cares about that.

This thread is about leap and retreat with their 12 second CDs, stop comparing yourself to a thief like that makes everything okay. Seriously. Stop

Vision.3541:

>>>>>>>>>>If youre gonna post here, stop comparing youre skills to thief skills. Were not talking about thieves here<<<<<<<<<<<<

Looking at you Jpo

NevirSayDie.6235:

Vision.3541:

NevirSayDie.6235:

Vision.3541:

Imagine a ranger with toughness, vitality, condition damage, and healing power

Imagine him with axe/toch and sword dagger

Imagine him and cry

The mods are limited so people like him dont exist

Umm, tough/vit/healing/condi is four stats, so you don’t have to worry about that combination coming up, since PvP amulets only have three stats on them. We could stand a tough/vit/condi amulet, though.

There is only one stat combination that would “ruin” things—toughness/vit/healing. As long as we avoid that, we’re fine. I don’t understand why everyone is opposed to all other stat combinations because bunkers. The reason bunkers exist is because there’s not really any other way to get toughness in your build at all except to go full bunker. Some new amulets could change that.

Have you ever seen how hard a torch ranger hits with conditions? If they just had healing power and toughness over that they would start a river of tears floating all through the forums. And some amulents have more than 3 stats, go look.

A toughness/condi/healing amulet already exists, it’s called shaman’s. I’m not denying that shortbow/sword-torch condi rangers are deadly, I’m just saying that adding a couple new stat choices that made more balanced builds would not make them gods all of a sudden.

I suppose we could get into 4-stat amulets with all the stats lowered, but there’s already celestial if you want a little of everything and nobody likes it. There’s also zerker’s and rampager’s, but I don’t see any complaints about those?

Meant to say tough/vit/condition, my bad.

But nobody complains about zerker because it has a major drawback and running it makes you glassy as can be. Opening up more mods would mean less draw backs and more complaining

dont do it

Darnis.4056:

Illusionary leap onto another person and still remain stunned, effectively making Blurred frenzy do 0 damage to the target as he is free to go….

It’s a 400 foot at max movement, and fails often and MUST be set up Prior to your well placed skull crack_ AND_ requires a second target.

Pretty sure Phase retreat does not break stun but only moves you as well, as there is a lag time before you are able to use skills again, long enough to GS 3/5 into GS2…

These skills do not stunbreak.. they are instants.. just like the other instant skills..
In fact steal can do the same thing, as it moves you to the second target.

Not sure why you’re argueing as if Mesmer is not melee, as most mesmers certainly are.

You cant compare a 45 second F1 to a 12 second weapon skill

Weve been over this already, were not here to compare your skills to thieves. Steal is a skill that with shadowstep you and will only avoid stun placement if more than one enemy is around. Phase retreat is one button and pulls you back even if its 1v1

>>>>>>>>>>If youre gonna post here, stop comparing youre skills to thief skills. Were not talking about thieves here<<<<<<<<<<<<

Darnis.4056:

It’s an instant ability… I think other instant abilities can still be used while stunned, like… Steal ?

I get that we have a weapon with a unique ability, but It’s a very defensive weapon.. and heavily changed and moved around since beta..

Except that steal cant be used to erase a well placed and carefully planned skull crack like retreat and leap can

YojimboJones.6243:

I think alot of mesmer players are missing the point of this thread. It’s not really calling for a nerf but more asking, “Is this working as intended? If so, is this fair?” Any skill that acts as a stunbreaker should say so in the tooltip. So that way when Devs come around to balance things out, it is clearly defined how the skills and traits are working. So they can say “Okay lets look at mesmer, they run utility stun breaks like just about everyone else, but wait some of their weapons skills can also allow them to escape while stunned? Hmm, lets reveiw this.”

Nobody is arguing that those skills are not flavorful to the class. Yes, it is obvious that mesmers are the master of illusion and confusion. Whenever you fight one there are 3 extra guys fighting you and each is shooting rainbows and butterflies. Very confusing indeed.

Just don’t defned that your ability which does not clearly state that it allows you to move while stunned, does. Ranged classes always have an inhearent advantage against melee classes. This is why you don’t bring a knife to a gunfight. So at the very least the ammount, and frequency of escape skills at your disposal should be equal to, not greater than, the ammount of gap closers that melee classes have. Otherwise melee does not stand a chance in hell.

This guy, hes my favorite so far

Darnis.4056:

You can still condition damage through Sword skill/Distortion…
For sure as I’ve gone down as I started to blur..

yeah my man up theres right, you still take damage from conditions but with endure pain you can still put conditions on and stun/knockback w.e
Mesmers avoidCCs and other conditions during blur.
Not complaining about that though, I think thats fair to have

Darnis.4056:

Channeled abilities will seek you through your blink/PR good luck “Preventing the Stun”

Phase retreat would be terrible if you couldn’t use it to MOVE somewhat out of range during stun, (not break stun).

You’re talking about making 100b warriors Burst Elementalists and thieves SUPER effective at killing mesmers instantly and without any resistance, Guess what happens when you blink and they just gap close again?

God knows going invisible or making 2 clones right under a warrior does almost nothing for your chances of survival, What about our other survival utilities, we don’t have any? Where’s our 5 seconds of Block 5 seconds of endure pain 5 seconds of Elixer twice?

Want to blow that distortion? Get rid of all your clones for dps and survive an extra 3-4 seconds if you somehow had 3 clones at the start of the fight?

Fine, NEXT combo, Warrior/thief dps doesn’t stop and needs effective counters otherwise cloth classes explode.

Mesmers are supposed to slip through your fingers, that’s their Class base as outlined by the devs.

Block is 3 seconds and you can still CC and condition damage through endure pain, you guys get 2 second inv with the sword skill, 3 seconds with distort, a stun break retreat and stealth to top it off. I’d say you have more than enough gap closers and stun breakers for one class

Chaos Archangel.5071:

Visionary.5681:

I love the arguements that Mesmers are using again and again to justify it.

Thieves can do it , so why shouldnt we be able to?

Its the same arguement they use to justify burst , anti-stun, disables , escapes.

To justify… The same things everyone else can do with the right weapons/utilities?

No other class can use a weapon skill to break a stun, it causes so many problems for melee. Thieves can do that but theyre melee as well so it isnt as much of a problem.

Guys Im not asking to nerf mesmers here, all Im saying is these two skills should be used to PREVENT getting stunned, not to get out of it

Darnis.4056:

Why are you bringing engineers into this?..

Ranger has dodges on his weapon afaik, Thief has Shortbow dodge, Warrior/guardian has Shield or mace blocks, Engineer can daze with their shield..

Each class has a defensive weapon they can use, Staff is mesmer’s Defensive weapon.

Except none of them can use any of that while stunned, dazed, or knocked down. Only mesmer

This is the problem here

NevirSayDie.6235:

Vision.3541:

Imagine a ranger with toughness, vitality, condition damage, and healing power

Imagine him with axe/toch and sword dagger

Imagine him and cry

The mods are limited so people like him dont exist

Umm, tough/vit/healing/condi is four stats, so you don’t have to worry about that combination coming up, since PvP amulets only have three stats on them. We could stand a tough/vit/condi amulet, though.

There is only one stat combination that would “ruin” things—toughness/vit/healing. As long as we avoid that, we’re fine. I don’t understand why everyone is opposed to all other stat combinations because bunkers. The reason bunkers exist is because there’s not really any other way to get toughness in your build at all except to go full bunker. Some new amulets could change that.

Have you ever seen how hard a torch ranger hits with conditions? If they just had healing power and toughness over that they would start a river of tears floating all through the forums. And some amulents have more than 3 stats, go look.

Darnis.4056:

Only Mesmers are defending the mesmer class! They are biased! Guess what, it works both ways, you’re biased against mesmers because you’re not a mesmer.

Have you ever thought that Mace warrior wasn’t supposed to beat a shatter mesmer?
This game isn’t balanced so your build wins every fight.

1v1, One clean hit from Greatsword(3) after phase retreating from a Bullsrush/skullcrack (Still stunned can’t dodge) takes me to half health.
Tell me about your skill cap.

Please explain to me why the only reliable ability out of instagib needs to be nerfed?
Should I die after using up a defensive utility?

“Say a thief pops on you with basilisk venom, you had staff out and weren’t on cooldown or blinked away, That’s 3 Seconds of DPS that’s gone!”

Yes, That 2 seconds of dps would have killed the mesmer, again, tell me about your skill cap.

Also, the mesmer is not the best source of sustained DPS, the d/d Ele is.

It shouldve killed the mesmer, engineers cant block while stunned but you pretty much can, thats not fair to have on a weapon skill it should be used as a way to avoid situations like that before they happen not white out your sloppy playing after you let somebody stun you with a 45 second CD.

jportell.2197:

Vision.3541:

hharry.1967:

Agree, if it doesnt break stun/knock downs it shouldnt be able to be used, prolly a bug.

Dont think its a bug, thieves get the same thing with their sword skill. Its just not as problematic against thieves

Woah woah woah not as problematic? I hadn’t read all your posts but every twelve seconds is nowhere near as fast as just as often as you’d like because you don’t use cooldowns. Sorry man. This seems really bias to me.

Its lets problematic to me because thieves typicall go back to melee range after breaking, so yes that is bias. But this thread is about mesmers.

Im saying theres something that needs fixing about your class and youre basically saying yeah well hes doing it too so it must be okay if mesmers have it. Were not here to discuss thieves only mesmers and possibly a dervish 2013 comeback tour