I think anet has given up on the no trinity thing. as we now have a spec that is basically a dedicated healer role in HoT=druid(which we were previously told wouldn’t happen)
I believe what it means is that you have more viability with tanking (As with healing) but it will not be required in any shape. Required would be a situation in which if you do not have a tank you cannot complete that part of the game. It would be impossible with no work around it. With HoT you can get a little taste of tanking to call it so but alas the function is not indispensable.
As for the taunt, it merely changes the focus of the enemy on you for a brief time (1-2s). It can even be dodged, and mobs in HoT will be dodging. Think of it this way: you see a mesmer with 1HP and a mob ready to hit him. You taunt and in the second the mob would hit, he instead turns towards you. The mesmer escapes and that’s your tanking in Guild Wars 2. I like to call it mobile aegis lol.
Although with HoT healing and tanking will see more viability in order for them to be enjoyed as play styles, they will never be required as that would create the holy trinity. And Anet does not want such a thing.
In the end, will you be more viable than pre-HoT? Yes. Will you be needed with this play style somewhere? No.
Have a great day!
“and some encounters may even REQUIRE a member of your group to dust off that toughness gear to bulk up and tank some heavy hits to protect the condition-build players in the back. "
the word is there and in the context I referred to it. required for raid content.
as for nomad vs cleric vs soldier vs knight. of course your tanking gear has flavors, but any high toughness gear would count as tank gear in my mind.
(edited by Warlock.7136)
also on the idea that taunt doesn’t exist. here is the official wiki page on that.
sited source is a dev team post. taunt has been added as a function. also you can read under “aggro” in the official gw2 wiki that players vitality and toughness stats affect mob agro.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Aggro#Mechanics
“if a player has a high amount of toughness/vitality and wears a shield, they could hit the mob just once and have unrivaled aggro from the mob.” under Internals in agro wiki
(edited by Warlock.7136)
on the forums in the past I have been accused of making up quotes by arenanet(which is entirely false) so as this is one of the quotes in question that players have said never happened I would just like to post it’s source here
“Some encounters are going to push you to try different weapons you rarely use, some are going to challenge you to select traits you haven’t considered equipping before, and some encounters may even require a member of your group to dust off that toughness gear to bulk up and tank some heavy hits to protect the condition-build players in the back. " anet talking about raids requiring tank type builds.
you can find this quote in
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/designing-challenging-content/
I main a tank for me this is a long overdue content. in several map chats I have been told this does not exist. thank you for your time reading this.
thank you appreciate the help
just wondering if anyone has heard if we are getting new character parts with HoT? like faces and such. trying to determine if i should make my druid and tome level them now or wait for new faces etc.
So instead of 5 berserkers getting to chose to play with eachother, you want to force them to play with anyone who can have every stat combination thinkable out there.
Some how that aint bullying but they wanting to play with eachother and exluding you is?
I stated in a previous post that I acknowledge the right of meta players to play meta. anet has stated that it “left gear/build inspect functions out of the game on purpose” I am washing my hands of this topic and would once again like to say to everyone on this thread. stop talking about group mechanics as it obviously upsets everyone involved. if you would like to talk about revenants and raid mechanics that is what this thread is for, at least that is what it was intended for. I am no longer acknowledging posts about group mechanics. so much unnecessary aggression in this thread. I am reminded about a one page ad in a roleplaying magazine when I was younger about a white wolf game called wraith the oblivion. it was a grey smoke colored page with the blurry words “it’s only a game” written over and over and over.
(edited by Warlock.7136)
and it is not bullying to say “play my way or else?” this is what the zerk only meta does everyday. I am trying to ask for a system where every player is considered equal regardless of their play style and is welcomed into any activity they choose to participate in. being asked for a zerk gear or min/maxer build as a requirement to do content is just as overbearing as what you are saying I am doing. I am sorry if you felt bullied. telling our friends to go away because you don’t want to play with them because they play “wrong” is bullying. that having been said I once again apologize if I have wronged you in any way. and I would once again like to stop talking about group dynamics in this thread as it is apparently a very touchy subject.
ty I appreciate the tip unfortunately for physical reasons i’m not prepared to go into here my day effectively ends around 3pm est. either way it’s not a concern anymore. I will never run fractals because I refuse to support a dungeon that requires an armor set that is only useful in that one dungeon. agony infusions could have been like luck. that is to say you use them they add permanently to your agony resistance stat. taking up slots on equipment that is then useless anywhere else is not something I support. sw makes me the most money. so dungeons aren’t useful to me in that way. and I have my dungeon master achievement now.
they sound very different, but as others have expressed that my experience may not have been typical, I can’t say for sure.
linken said: I done all welcome groups on all but arah and only time I wait longer then 15 mins are during the night at 2am-5am my time.
this might have something to do with my experience I am on est and were running them between my hours of 10am-2:30pm. I am hestitant to blame all of it on my timing as I said I was watching the dungeons lfg tool and saw other groups forming rather rapidly so long as they were “zerk only speed runs”
a thought: there was also another category of groups doing the dungeon runs that repeatedly kicked me or simply didn’t accept me and that was the exp only. as I only needed each path once ever, I could not claim to be exp.
(edited by Warlock.7136)
this was a repeat occurance while I was working toward my dungeon master achieve which I now have. so it was several times of 30 mins+ and my group never was answered I had to take down my post and join another group.
Ok so for Revenant you would like to see more diversity, the ability to choose utilities and create a unique build. That’s reasonable, I don’t think it’s going to happen right away but certainly something to question in the future once the smoke of release clears.
Raids you would like to see a LFR (Looking for Raid) type of system similar to how a player queues up for PvP and have that system find your team based on the class roles that are needed ? Which could be a valuable tool so long as difficulty levels are not affected. You do realize though with a tool such as this you are going to get random strangers some of which you may not see eye to eye with in respect to their … mannerisms.
All in all I think both are not bad ideas, why did it take us 3 pages to reach this simple conclusion.
You’re not asking for raids to be easier just a more simplistic way to enter/organize a group to enjoy the content. Am I correct in assuming this is a good summary of what you’re asking for ?
In a way s/he is asking for them to be easier since “every player/every class/every build accepted everytime” are suposed to be able to lfr and the raid must be tune for that.
s/he did say that the lfr should pair people to be able to do it so if you need 1 more berserker and the only ones queing are soldiers, clerics and zealots. Tough luck be prepared to que for hours. ( the reason they made healers and tank not required is the whole point they went with soft trinity at all so people shouldent have to wait for a specific person, I dont see them changing that now)
May I ask what your requirment/dungeon were when you waited for hours and end without getting groups filled in lfg? If it was arah I can understand it not many pug that
one.I done all welcome groups on all but arah and only time I wait longer then 15 mins are during the night at 2am-5am my time.
I see the problems with the system as you pointed out. but players don’t wait hours for a pvp que. I wanted raids doable by the same kind of groups that pvp finds itself having. with similar que times.
my post was “lfg and leader for path x”
Ok so for Revenant you would like to see more diversity, the ability to choose utilities and create a unique build. That’s reasonable, I don’t think it’s going to happen right away but certainly something to question in the future once the smoke of release clears.
Raids you would like to see a LFR (Looking for Raid) type of system similar to how a player queues up for PvP and have that system find your team based on the class roles that are needed ? Which could be a valuable tool so long as difficulty levels are not affected. You do realize though with a tool such as this you are going to get random strangers some of which you may not see eye to eye with in respect to their … mannerisms.
All in all I think both are not bad ideas, why did it take us 3 pages to reach this simple conclusion.
You’re not asking for raids to be easier just a more simplistic way to enter/organize a group to enjoy the content. Am I correct in assuming this is a good summary of what you’re asking for ?
this is brilliantly summed up and I too don’t understand why the thread diveated so much. ty for this post.
Let me show it side by side.
http://dulfy.net/2014/03/20/gw2-feature-pack-patch-information-roadmap/
March 20 – Traits Unleashed: Forty New Traits and More!
March 21 – The Art of Combat
March 21 – Critical!
March 25 – A New Way to Explore the Looks of Guild Wars 2
March 25 – A Colorful Outlook
March 26 – Looking for Group?
March 27 – Removing Restrictions
March 27 – Account-Bound
March 28 – A Solid Foundation
April 2 – Facilitating Friendly Play
April 3 – Facilitating Friendly Play: Part Two
April 4 – Facilitating Friendly Play: Part Three
The link Inculpatus cedo.9234 was kind to link
Blog Posts
03 Apr The Megaserver System: Guilds and the Future
The megaserver system and the future of guilds, WvW, and more.03 Apr The Megaserver System: World Bosses and Events
Our new megaserver system is bringing some changes to the way open-world boss encounters work.
02 Apr Introducing the Megaserver System
Learn all about our plan for bringing more players together in Guild Wars 2!
28 Mar PvP Reward Tracks and Gear Unification
The April 2014 Feature Pack is bringing big changes to PvP items and rewards! Read on to learn about our exciting plans.
27 Mar Say Goodbye to Armor Repair Costs and Hello to Free Trait Resets
The feature build is bringing in some economic changes. Learn all about them here!
27 Mar Account-Bound WXP, Legendaries, and Ascended Gear
Log in on April 15 to take advantage of account-bound World XP, ascended gear, and legendary weapons!
26 Mar Social Play Improvements
As part of the April 2014 Feature Pack, we’re introducing improvements to LFG and other social features!
25 Mar Dyes in the New Account Wardrobe
Big changes are coming to dyes in Guild Wars 2!
25 Mar Introducing the Wardrobe System
Prepare to enjoy a whole new way to customize all of your characters’ looks!
21 Mar Learn About Critical Damage Changes
The April 2014 Feature Pack is bringing changes to the way critical damage works. Read on to learn about ferocity, critical damage, and more!
21 Mar Runes, Sigils, and Balance Updates
Roy Cronacher and Karl McLain explain the exciting changes coming to runes, sigils, and class balance!
20 Mar Traits Unleashed: Forty New Traits and More!
Roy Cronacher and Karl McLain discuss major improvements to the trait system!
20 Mar Announcing the April 2014 Feature Pack!
The first-ever feature pack for Guild Wars 2 is coming on April 15!
Can you now see that the last 3 your so hung up on are indeed april 2 Introducing the Megaserver System april 3 the Megaserver System: World Bosses and Events and 03 Apr The Megaserver System: Guilds and the Future
The mega servers sure help with getting groups in a friendly manner since your grouped with friends list and guild your in
Edit
Since all of the names on dulfys list are indeed the teaser namesthis is a list of links to unrelated articles from what I was talking about. no expression of me was in these posts and when this turned the thread aggressive I ceased to talk about it and tried to calmly redirect the conversation back to the revenant and the raiding system if you felt or anyone felt bullied by links posted on an unrelated topic to the thread discussion I am truly sorry and tried to end it and redirect it as calmly and considerately as I could at the time.
But those links are releated to one of your key points that every build should be as viable as the next. quote “every player/every class/every build accepted everytime”
April 2 – Facilitating Friendly Play = 02 Apr Introducing the Megaserver System
April 3 – Facilitating Friendly Play: Part Two = 03 Apr The Megaserver System: World Bosses and Events
April 4 – Facilitating Friendly Play: Part Three = 03 Apr The Megaserver System: Guilds and the Future
this is not a productive topic of discussion.
linken said: On the revenant what you seem to want is a copy of elementalist attunement but instead call them legends?
I would have skipped weapon switch and have 3 legends that swaped out the 3 utility skills and add a f4 (maybe an f5 to) for each legend giving them close but not the same nr of skills as the elementalist. + depending on legend your weapon skills worked diffrently so the legends would be
1 melee power
1 melee condi
1 healing melee
1 ranged condi
1 range power
1 range condi
for example and you mix the 3 you like.
They would be very versatile but only a master of 1 due to what gear they wear.[/quote]
this is another nice idea, it clashes with my own personal playstyle of wanting make a build on my character regardless of class. but I can see how this would appeal to others playstyle while adding a small amount of variety to the class. ty for this post.
Let me show it side by side.
http://dulfy.net/2014/03/20/gw2-feature-pack-patch-information-roadmap/
March 20 – Traits Unleashed: Forty New Traits and More!
March 21 – The Art of Combat
March 21 – Critical!
March 25 – A New Way to Explore the Looks of Guild Wars 2
March 25 – A Colorful Outlook
March 26 – Looking for Group?
March 27 – Removing Restrictions
March 27 – Account-Bound
March 28 – A Solid Foundation
April 2 – Facilitating Friendly Play
April 3 – Facilitating Friendly Play: Part Two
April 4 – Facilitating Friendly Play: Part Three
The link Inculpatus cedo.9234 was kind to link
Blog Posts
03 Apr The Megaserver System: Guilds and the Future
The megaserver system and the future of guilds, WvW, and more.03 Apr The Megaserver System: World Bosses and Events
Our new megaserver system is bringing some changes to the way open-world boss encounters work.
02 Apr Introducing the Megaserver System
Learn all about our plan for bringing more players together in Guild Wars 2!
28 Mar PvP Reward Tracks and Gear Unification
The April 2014 Feature Pack is bringing big changes to PvP items and rewards! Read on to learn about our exciting plans.
27 Mar Say Goodbye to Armor Repair Costs and Hello to Free Trait Resets
The feature build is bringing in some economic changes. Learn all about them here!
27 Mar Account-Bound WXP, Legendaries, and Ascended Gear
Log in on April 15 to take advantage of account-bound World XP, ascended gear, and legendary weapons!
26 Mar Social Play Improvements
As part of the April 2014 Feature Pack, we’re introducing improvements to LFG and other social features!
25 Mar Dyes in the New Account Wardrobe
Big changes are coming to dyes in Guild Wars 2!
25 Mar Introducing the Wardrobe System
Prepare to enjoy a whole new way to customize all of your characters’ looks!
21 Mar Learn About Critical Damage Changes
The April 2014 Feature Pack is bringing changes to the way critical damage works. Read on to learn about ferocity, critical damage, and more!
21 Mar Runes, Sigils, and Balance Updates
Roy Cronacher and Karl McLain explain the exciting changes coming to runes, sigils, and class balance!
20 Mar Traits Unleashed: Forty New Traits and More!
Roy Cronacher and Karl McLain discuss major improvements to the trait system!
20 Mar Announcing the April 2014 Feature Pack!
The first-ever feature pack for Guild Wars 2 is coming on April 15!
Can you now see that the last 3 your so hung up on are indeed april 2 Introducing the Megaserver System april 3 the Megaserver System: World Bosses and Events and 03 Apr The Megaserver System: Guilds and the Future
The mega servers sure help with getting groups in a friendly manner since your grouped with friends list and guild your in
Edit
Since all of the names on dulfys list are indeed the teaser names
this is a list of links to unrelated articles from what I was talking about. no expression of me was in these posts and when this turned the thread aggressive I ceased to talk about it and tried to calmly redirect the conversation back to the revenant and the raiding system if you felt or anyone felt bullied by links posted on an unrelated topic to the thread discussion I am truly sorry and tried to end it and redirect it as calmly and considerately as I could at the time.
This thread has lost all meaning, I’m unsure of what it is exactly you were hoping to achieve or learn from your original post. So don’t take this as rude because I’m genuinely curious.
What exactly are you hoping to achieve from this thread ? Are you trying to give suggestions and ideas or are you asking for suggestions and ideas ?
What is your summarized stance on the three subjects you brought up ?
the original intent of this thread was to discuss some of the content of HoT and how it could be improved. both through the expression of my thoughts and opinions and the thoughts and opinions of others. specifically the raid system and the revenant class.
how am I being a bully? I see that as a very serious statement. I have not insulted anyone. I am not saying it is my way or no way at all. I am trying to have a calm open discussion about the raid system and the revenant. grouping and player interactions were not something that should have been discussed here. I have repeatedly apologized on any post that was taken aggressively and I am truly sorry if you feel I bullied you in any way. and apologize if anyone else felt bullied.
again ty a well thought out and well stated post. my idea was for the revenant to work kinda like this.
f1-f5 shifts legends. no weapon swap on class. when you shift legend you shift the weapon skills not the utility bar. the utility bar is fully customizable as with any class. yes this would require new utilities but seeing as we are adding a new class this should have been done as part of the class development.
as it stands now I am unsure I will play the new class,which is yet another disappointment to me about HoT. the entire class feels like it isn’t a class but more an adaptation to an earlier gw2 personal story line mechanic. in the norn story line when you assault the jotun leader. you are given either a sword or a wolf form. when you go wolf form you combat stats are that form and not your own. I feel like revenant is an extension of this. and just as it is annoying to be turned into a moa and have your combat bar locked into a skill set not your own, I find the idea of unsetable utilities to be for a lack of a better way of expressing it lazy. instead of having a new class that adds more build variety we are given a broken jukebox. that is to say that it holds several records and can play them but they were not your chosen music they were what were stocked inside the jukebox. idk. maybe I should just give up on thinking of gw2 classes as play your way and start thinking of them as console classes where you take x class and you get 4 skills to use in that class. it just feels like because it has no customization options that all revenants will end up the same cookie cutter/min maxer setup. I feel like my class system was lobotomized and revenant is the resulting zombie walking around asking for change.
this is starting a downward spiral again. you are frustrated. I am frustrated. can we go back to the calm discussion we were having?
I count castle as the last post that was part of that calm discussion.
Geez louise. Are you using the links I provided??? Evidently not. I went to the trouble to find your ‘lost’ articles; please peruse them.
Good luck.
you did not find it I have read those articles because they were archived. the article you are looking for was a link on the right side of the screen. in similar fashion to what the September feature pack now has. the articles you posted are from a different section of info on that feature pack but are not the “facilitating friendlier play article” which talked about group hits counting for loot drops and the quote I gave.
Members
Location:New Eden
Profession:Guardian
Guild Tag:[DKAL]
Server:Piken Square
Posted 21 March 2014 – 09:40 AM
View Postraspberry jam, on 21 March 2014 – 09:30 AM, said:
Dyes account bound when?
If you look at the side bar in the main feature pack article, you can see multiple topics they are going to debate:
Quote
April 2014 Feature Pack1. Traits Unleashed: Forty New Traits and More!
2. Announcing the April 2014 Feature Pack!
3. mar 21 The Art of Combat
4. mar 21 Critical!
5. mar 24 A New Way to Explore the Looks of Guild Wars 2
6. mar 24 A Colorful Outlook
7. mar 26 Looking For Group?
8. mar 27 Removing Restrictions
9. mar 27 Account-Bound
10. mar 28 A Solid Foundation
11. abr 2 Facilitating Friendly Play
12. abr 3 Facilitating Friendly Play: Part Two
13. abr 4 Facilitating Friendly Play: Part Three
this is a blog by a player talking about the feature pack and the “facilitating friendlier play”
http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/90784-tera-rising-guild-wars-2-new-classes/
but if you click the link in the post it takes you to the September info. like I said it has been taken down.
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/the-megaserver-system-guilds-and-the-future/
this is an example page and not the article notice on the right hand side of the screen it says “September feature pack” with a bunch of links. when that had the april links it had one entitles “facilitating friendlier play” which had the quote. as I have said repeatedly this was taken down when the new feature pack came up and has not been archived anywhere that I can find.
All those articles were about the MegaServer:
Introducing the Megaserver System
by Colin Johanson and Samuel Loretan on April 2, 2014
the articles you are providing are not the “facilitating friendlier play” articles.
when you bring up the april pack on the right hand side of the screen were some preview articles that have been taken down. one was “facilitating friendlier play” where this article was you now have only the articles about the September feature pack.
The Megaserver System: World Bosses and Events
by Colin Johanson and Anthony Ordon on April 3, 2014
The Megaserver System: Guilds and the Future
by Colin Johanson on April 3, 2014
https://web.archive.org/web/20140510055449/https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/releases/feature-packs/ (This is the entirety of the April Feature Patch)
I’m afraid there was nothing in those articles about your ‘quote’. Sorry.
@Warlock, would two LFG’s for dungeons be a good compromise? One random grouper that groups based on dungeon path chosen and language of server (EU side does have language specific servers). This is for the casuals who don’t want to play meta. The one we have now remains and is used for specific runs. The meta players and the teaching runs would be here. Or the groups needing something specific to get through part of a dungeon.
We have this already.
System 1 : Go to LFG, write : Path 1, all welcome.
System 2 : Go to LFG, write : Path 1, (insert conditions here).
@ Warlock, why do you need to “fight the zerker meta”? Just use system 1… Or system 2 and say “no zerk”. A meta will always exist, zerker is the current choice because of encounter/dungeon/fractal design.
this has been tried and after an hour of waiting(not an exaggeration) on multiple attempts, you see zerk group after zerk group fill and start while your group gets no players.
ty castle that was a well thought out post and I can see where you are coming from on all of it and agree with a large portion of it. a thought on revenant and the “nightmare of coding” it. when an ele shifts element it’s a weapon bar shifts the skills that are available and these are all balanced by the dev team. revenant could have been made to easily function in this method. i.e. when you shift to shiro on hammer shiro uses hammer differently then glint does. then 4 or 5 new utility skills could have been added. this would effectively be only a small balance and reskinning code that was already available.
http://dulfy.net/2014/03/20/gw2-feature-pack-patch-information-roadmap/
april 2nd-3rd. here is the proof it existed even if I can’t show what it said
Can you show me a link to were they stated this.
“every player/every class/every build accepted everytime”
I think your taking a statment way out of context.
I can not. it was in the previous feature pack article under “improved social aspects”. when the new recent feature pack came up they took down theprevious feature pack article and replaced it with the current feature pack article. if someone copied it to somewhere online then you could read it for yourself. I have tried to locate a copy but to no avail for this exact reason. if you do choose to look and you can find an archived copy somewhere I would love to know where.
the feature pack that introduced the megaserver system. you can see where it was taken down here
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/releases/
when you click on the april feature pack article it brings up the September one.
correction: I previously stated it was under “improved social aspects”. this is incorrect it was under “facilitating friendlier play”
(edited by Warlock.7136)
a note about the ones I can set my sights on. all those games suck. if gw2 wasn’t the best game on the market I would be playing what was. one can enjoy the massive effort by anet to create an equal opportunity world, while still seeing ways that it could be made better.
I see how your looking at this as a trinity vs non trinity concept. what I am saying is that any class should be able to fill all roles. defensive/offensive/healer,utility. and that all game content should allow for a group that fills these roles to do the content as efficiently as a group that only has representatives from one role, offense. the idea is to accept every player with every build(or role) everytime. if it can’t be done like that then imo anet either needs to admit that their self stated goal of “every player/every class/every build accepted everytime” is no longer their goal. or rebalance content so that this occurs. either by force(lfr system etc) or by the nature of the content. i.e. raising damage from mobs gives defense a purpose. adding hp to mobs gives dmg a purpose. raising mob toughness stats gives cnd damage a purpose. etc. timers are an aweful thing imo but the timers could stay in place and the time allowed increased to decrease the intense perceived need for everyone to glass cannon themselves.
imo a good team works kinda like this. you have damage players. when these weak high damage characters die. the defensive player or players rez the damage character thus covering the glass cannon from being one shotted. the utility character for the group might be a buff engine or a portal Mesmer or several other concepts of utility and support. I am not talking about teams of “nomad only” as that would be as aweful as pure damage teams. I am talking about balnced groups that represent different playstyle at the same time doing balanced content.
repeatedly wiping because no one can take any damage is just as prone to failure as not having enough damage to kill the boss in time.
(edited by Warlock.7136)
Warlock
Are you taking into account enrage timers and the likes ? What happens when you enter a raid and the build you or another raid member are using make it impossible to complete the raid ? Your raid will be required to kill the bosses in X amount time or they enrage and wipe the raid. Do you still think that players should play whatever build they want if this is the case and it make the completion impossible ? Your build may be fine but another raid members may not be. What do you do when you realize you will never complete the raid without specific build types ? As I said before one example is at least 1 boss requires condition damage to kill it, will you suggest dumbing down the mechanics to suit the play what you want theory ? Do you believe this to be fair to other player not to mention he Dev’s who put a lot of time an effort into raids to bring us build diversity ?
my response will sound like a cop out but that’s how I see this. if the raid isn’t capable of being completed without having a specific individual build then that sounds like a balancing issue. the raid should be hard to complete. but it shouldn’t require an exact player team setup and if it is designed to be that way then the LFR system that I mentioned should put your team together with that exact build structure.
a clarifier on my thoughts about “there will always be a meta” I guess what I am looking for is a system that generates multiple metas. i.e. a defensive playstyle that is considered meta and used. a offensive playstyle meta that is considered meta and used. a utility meta that is considered meta and used. not every player is comfortable playing offensively, these players deserve to be a readily accepted part of the game. play your way was what anet promised and it is what I am after. instead of 1 build meta I want multiple metas across different playstyles so that no one is alienated.
@Warlock, would two LFG’s for dungeons be a good compromise? One random grouper that groups based on dungeon path chosen and language of server (EU side does have language specific servers). This is for the casuals who don’t want to play meta. The one we have now remains and is used for specific runs. The meta players and the teaching runs would be here. Or the groups needing something specific to get through part of a dungeon.
yes I would find that acceptable as that is the way the pvp system works and I mentioned using the pvp system for dungeons/raid content. my concern with that is that there would not be any players in the random que if the ability to group form and go in was allowed. alas unless the system used to regulate the groups supersedes a players ability to create that super-tuned exclusive group and enter, the random que would simply not be used. the idea is to provide a system where it is not allowed to pick your team mates builds. you want to do a raid/dungeon you choose the dungeon you want or raid you want and the system makes all the decisions about group form. perhaps as I suggested the dc universe model could apply. you choose the raid then you put a descriptor on your character “defensive” “offensive” “utility” and when the group has representatives of all of these the group is considered formed and you enter the content.(warrior:defensive, warrior offensive, ranger utility(druid) ) and might be an example group.
an unkickable group leader would be one way to go on fighting the zerk meta. it is indeed an idea I had not thought about. thank you for this. I am still unsure if when I say “instanced” I am using that term correctly. in dc universe when you want to join a multiplayer raid you que your character up and a team is put together for you. the advantage I see in this is that all builds are allowed an equal opportunity to participate in the game. I think that raids would benefit from this system in gw2. the coding for this system is already in the game. it is how pvp teams are assembled. using this system for both raids/dungeons could see some advantages. I had not thought of the idea of an unkickable leader. that would at least prevent the group hijacking that you expressed frustration in. good idea.
See that’s the reason why this conversation will have a hard time staying constructive. ‘’fighting the zerk meta’‘. There is no meta to fight. This sound like you are in a blind crusade to eliminate the meta. Just like you suggestion to make LFG random and to not allow people to put requirement. There is plenty of player and they all want to play differently. Your way of playing isn’t more pure or good than any other way other player would want to play the game. There is place for everybody and that include the meta. I enjoy the hell out of a good meta run, but I also love to do other stuff.
Why do you have to use those words ‘’fighting the zerk meta’‘. I don’t like the limited amount of choice in build diverstiy in PvE. I want to open the choice. I want condition to be on par with direct damage (not just specific burn build). I want content hard enough that a healer could be a good option, but I also want to be able to do the job with blind, aegis, reflect, and a group of kitten veteran players. I want to everybody to be able to create their LFG with their own requirement and that those requirement will be respected by people joining. I want everybody to play the way they want, accepting that some will be more efficient, but that not everybody will be able to be optimal.
I want less restriction, not more, but bias toward another way of playing just to kill the current meta.
I can see how it may have come across as aggressive. this is not my intent. I want every class/build/gear to be allowed in every party everytime. this is a goal anet once said it had. I agree that build variety should be constantly increased. and yes that would include zerker. one way to allow some of the more defensive builds some opportunity would be to raise average mob damage to the point that a pure glass cannon gets 1 shotted by average mobs unless the player using it is REALLY good at dodging. anet seems to be going down the road of less build variety. I think this is to reduce the amount of balancing to be done and redone. revenant is a good example of this trend. the whole class is autobalanced because there literally is a very small limited number of builds that this class can generate because of it’s locked spirit skills instead of utility skills and the one trait line that is the elite specialization about it.
here is an example of what has frustrated me about my own main. he was built as my first character. he was built as a HHH tribute;is a large norn hammer warrior. in wvw he found his niche. he was a rez engine tank. that is to say when a group dies in a run or when players are dying around him. he runs into what they couldn’t take. he rezzes the player while absorbing any and all damage aimed at him while this is happening. he got a lot of good wvw attention. many tys for what players thought were impossible rezzing situations that he managed. it was a nice friendly build that generated more fun for everyone. then the last feature pack happened. damage was raised damage absorbtion was not. I managed my damage and loot mainly through ret damage via spiked armor trait. he did get loot doing this. he did spike players doing this. I felt that he was my friendliest to other players character.
I say “fighting the meta” because as anet said when any one rune/build becomes the only acceptable one that is unacceptable. I do not want the meta crushed to not occurring that is just as wrong as it being the only thing that is allowed. the cnd dmg boost helped a few builds jump up as an option. I just want it suppressed slightly so that lots of other builds are considered as good as zerk meta is considered. when you can’t get into content because your playstyle is defensive and all players want is max damage it feels like it’s kinda you vs the meta. by fighting I mean suppressed slightly so that other builds are considered equally good. I have a full set of ascended healer gear waiting for my ranger who I intend on being my main after HoT launches. I love that we have a healer now. I am nervous as to how druids will earn loot drops. but if they do then this is a massive step in the right direction of allowing players who are more healer/tank oriented a place in gw2.
Shevak, YES that is exactly what I am saying. looking for raid. click icon at top of screen. click the raid you want to join. 10 person raiding party assembles from the que. I am glad to hear that you don’t think it would be a bad addition. I am unsure how it played out in wow as I only played 8 hrs of the beginning of wow on a friends comp one time and didn’t enjoy it. haven’t played sense and it was so many years ago I barely remember it now. I am also encouraged by the comment one of the dev team members made saying “in HoT players will have to dust off that toughness gear and take some serious hits” playing a war tank from launch as my main having a place to belong in a raid system would be a welcome thing, I can see hesitancy in the idea of the raid system taking over all future content updates. unfortunately this may happen as anet said the raid system will play a heavy part in future updates as a “method of delivering new content in future updates”
an unkickable group leader would be one way to go on fighting the zerk meta. it is indeed an idea I had not thought about. thank you for this. I am still unsure if when I say “instanced” I am using that term correctly. in dc universe when you want to join a multiplayer raid you que your character up and a team is put together for you. the advantage I see in this is that all builds are allowed an equal opportunity to participate in the game. I think that raids would benefit from this system in gw2. the coding for this system is already in the game. it is how pvp teams are assembled. using this system for both raids/dungeons could see some advantages. I had not thought of the idea of an unkickable leader. that would at least prevent the group hijacking that you expressed frustration in. good idea.
I am still responding because I would still like a dialog on instanced raids and the revenant class. I have repeatedly tried to drop the subject of gw2 community. I have acknowledged that my view may not be shared and I would indeed like to move past the gw2 group/community topic. this was never intended to be what this thread was about.
would anyone like to discuss these two things and not the community/grouping subject?
Warlock: as I have stated the thread was supposed to be about revenant not having any setable utility skills and thus no build potential as they are all essentialy the same without out this, and the idea of raids using a pvp style join. click on raid you want, get qued for the raid.
Coulter: Because you said this :
“being kicked from a group because you are not the glass cannon meta should not happen and should count as a form of harrasment that is causing players to be excluded from content”
Which is ridiculous, there is nothing mean about that.
Warlock: incorrect. being forced to play zerk or being kicked from groups IS an issue. it is an issue that even anet acknowledged. “when any one build/rune is the only acceptable build/rune that is unacceptable” being kicked from a group for not having “the one acceptable rune/build” is a problem. my suggestion was to use the pvp join style to bypass people being able to kick based on build/rune. another suggestion I had was that this become a reportable offense. this also would solve anet’s acknowledged “zerker only” problem. being told that a suggestion for solving something that they acknowledge as a problem is ridiculous is in fact rude. your opinion matters. my opinion matters. neither is “ridiculous” you keep bringing this up and it keeps getting addressed and yet for some reason your not considered to be trolling this thread. here is an idea. lets stop talking about the community as it is a covo that is going no where slowly. and talk about the thread topics of the revenant having no utility skills and weither an instanced raiding system would be useful.
(edited by Warlock.7136)
Warlock: when I said closed I meant it. so against my better judgement I will reply to this post as because the poster said they are being calm and trying to be productive and I wish to encourage that. sorry about the quoting you in cut and paste style my partial post quote is broken and shows only blank posts with what I assume is html code when I use the quoting system.
Quozex.9430: Many people in this forum post have offered their opinions and constructive feedback on what you view in the game to be displeasing and unobtainable. None of those comments has harassed or distastefully lashed out at any of your opinions. base. They are not distastefully rubbing their hands together in a dark room at the idea of players that cannot access 10 man content because they refuse to interact with the player base. This goes back to the idea that you do not give people or yourself the
Warlock: having my opinion being called absurd/ridiculous etc as happened in the first page of posts is insulting. everyone’s opinion is of equal value.
Quozex.9430: I very much agree with the consensus of people posting here that you yourself are putting up barriers that do not actually exist for the common GW2 player such as restricting yourself to a 2 man group to accomplish all content in the game whether or not it was designed for 2 or 10 people.
Warlock: as I stated previously this thread was about instancing raids to bypass some of the elitism encountered from the meta zerk and group forming. I have no problem participating in a group. other then dealing with player harassment which has occurred in 3/4 parties I have been in. in my experience, keeping your head down and participating in silence seems best for dealing with this. again not the point of this thread but fine.
Quozex.9430: I am sad to hear that most of your experiences with the general community in game have been unsatisfying as I have not shared many of those experiences save for a few occasions. In such occasions there is nothing that is demanding me, as a fellow player, to keep myself in that situation which I am not comfortable in. I also do not wish to remain in a team that has either harassed me or another in my group. So I leave, make my own lfg and wait at maximum for 10 minutes before it most likely fills and we go on our way to completing that content.
Warlock: i’m not sure I believe you on this(and I apologize for that) as every post to lfg I have started is never answered. but if this has been your experience i’m glad to hear it. if I left every group that was unsatisfactory on a social level I would never get any group content done.
Quozex.9430: Which leads me to talk about guilds and the up-coming group content. I have been in multiple guilds since launch, ~13. Many of which were small guilds roughly 9 or so people trying to start something big. A few of them succeeded, but I moved on to find other guilds as I personally did not mesh well. I have also encountered 2 guilds (to remain unnamed) that had demanding requirements to partake in activities. Such as the dreaded 100% rep. I personally made a friend in one such guild that required you be in WvW 100% of the time and I did stay in the guild for awhile. Eventually when it came down to being harassed for not dedicating my life to content I didn’t like, I left.
Warlock: you sound here like you think I haven’t tried to repeatedly test for friendlier people in friendlier guilds. the fact which I stated earlier in the thread is that I have. repeatedly. also you sound like you think I just bought the game. I did not I have been here sense launch. there is a point here that you make that has been my experience.
“Eventually when it came down to being harassed for not dedicating my life to content I didn’t like, I left.” that sounds like my experiences with at least 20 guilds sense launch.
Quozex.9430: I am now in a comfortable guild that has no requirements. A come and go, be nice to people and lets do stuff guild. We are 494 members strong with 120 on at peak times. All it took was some searching but it sounds as if you refuse to give people a chance when considering adding people to your guild or partaking in another guild.
Warlock: I am glad to hear that you found a home.
Quozex.9430: I am not at all attacking you in this post, I am simply restating what many others have tried to offer as constructive feedback on up coming content as well as my own opinions. I do hope that you find a way to interact and enjoy the game that so many others have found and enjoyed.
Warlock: I agree, which is the only reason I am responding.
Quozex.9430: As for a general comment to those who have posted in the thread, thank you. This has been the single most constructive and civil thread that shows no out-lash at specific posters. I am truly surprised that upon entering this threads second page it has remained constructive and insightful. It does show the truley helpful people that GW2 has for its community that make us so great and friendly. In the event that this thread does become somewhat hostile, I only see it as a reaction that the OP has refused to acknowledge many peoples opinion and to only restate the same thing in many of his responses.
Warlock: I have repeatedly stated that everyones opinion on this thread is of equal value. I am not however not going to comment on “ignoring peoples opinions” as this simply isn’t true. like i said everyones opinion is of equal value because it is just that an opinion.i have acknowledged each, i simply don’t share the perception that gw2 or any online game for that matter has a friendly community. this is from 20+ years of gaming online and represents thousands of negative interactions.
Quozex.9430: Do not over-use the word toxic as many people in today’s world use _tragic
Warlock: again i belive i am being misunderstood here. toxic=damaging to overall gaming or thread experience. something that is intentionaly inflammatory or derogatory is toxic i.e. it “poisons” the current thing being experience with a negative tone. Tragic= causing or characterized by extreme distress or sorrow. this is not what i am expressing when i say toxic.
Warlock: I am glad even though that is not being perceived that other players have had such a wonderful experience with the community. as stated previously I have on a regular basis retested the community water so to speak. each time it has resulted in tos social violations that i reported and nothing was done about. with the exception of a few people who had a ban placed on them for harassing me about my rl learning disorder. but that is neither here nor there. as i have said repeatedly this thread was about instancing raids through a similar system to the current pvp system. it has sense gotten massively side tracked because of a small side comment on my own experiences within that community. i group. i still group. when i have to. and i handle the groups now with silence. this has worked the best i can expect it to given the repeated end result. “insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.”
and yet i try the same thing, hoping for a different result. thank you for your time posting to this thread in a calm and civilized manner.
every person deserves to be allowed to play the base content regardless of purchase package. I.e. be able to beat the game/participate in stronghold/have acsess to new classes/able to do raids. etc. but the whole point of offering extras on collector’s editions. ultimate editions w/e you want to name them is that those players paid extra to get their packages. so they should be capable of using all of it. otherwise why offer the extra pack with the extra perks. it’s like saying when you pay for a hotel room that you deserve the grand suite when you paid a bargain price for your room. no. you are allowed to stay at the hotel. that is what your base package bought you. for extra they can upgrade your suite(to continue the metaphor) to a deluxe. and for their top price you can have the grand suite. regardless this thread became hyperfocused on one small detail when what it was originaly opened for was to discuss the idea of instanced raids. as this would meet anets self stated goals of “every player/class/build accepted to every party, everytime” and to simultaneously help them with a problem they acknowledged in the statement “when any one rune/build becomes the only acceptable build/rune that is unacceptable.”. but it has sense degenerated into bickering. when they get like this i wish you could simply close the thread you opened. so i will handle this like a tech support ticket.
Closed. Post service consumer survey:I have not recived helpful tech support but no longer wish to keep this ticket open.
ty you have been one of the reasonable people on here. all i was trying to say is that we paid extra for some features otherwise why buy ultimate rather then deluxe. we deserve to use these things. regardless of how we play the game.
as for the “would it be so bad to find some like minded people to help you.” yes. they don’t exist we have tried sense launch. if you stick your hand into a slot labeled “surprise” and you receive an electric shock as your “surprise” eventually you stop beliving in pleasant surprises and you pavlovianly associate the word surprise with the electric shock. at which time you stop trying. which is why the twin flames guild was formed in gw1 and carried through to gw2. we are a guild that is 10+years old. we deserve some content especially if it was one of the reasons anet said we should spend extra on. just a note as of posting this anet got 200$ from us. we deserve what we paid for.
ok. i think i’m coming off wrong here. an interaction can be “negative” without directly violating the tos. something that i think is being equivalated here. you do not have to be rude(allthough more players are then aren’t i can screen shot just about any heavily populated city and show an overlay of the tos to prove this.) negative can be many things. running the same dungeon path for 4 hrs straight for example is a negative interaction regardless of the side effect of having or not having rude behavoir. being kicked from a group without a word other then “not meta” is a negative interaction but not based in rude. dealing with a player in a thread who is suggesting that somehow you don’t deserve content that you paid for,can be negative and again not technically rude or tos violating. negative means just that i walked away with more stress then i came to it with. it’s a game it is supposed to be stress releaving not stress elevating.
Participate is not the same as accomplish alone. You can participate, get a couple more people to help you, this is participating. It seems you have misinterpreted what they said.
Any guild can achieve a hall just as any player can play all the content available (provided you purchased the xpac) you may need help from other players though. You are limiting yourself, no one else is limiting you, not the players, not Anet, it’s all on you. You are more than entitled to play anyway you like but you need to accept the consequences that come with those decisions.
Me and my wife have a guild. it has several high tier upgrades that we managed. it also has some locked off content that requires more players then we are willing to deal with.(as virtualy every player interaction we have is negative, including btw this interaction) we expected the same from HoT i.e. want a guild hall? ok here it is. want to make improvements? ok but you will work harder and move slower then larger guilds. no problem. some rewards held in reserve unless you are a guild balancing things like player drama. also ok. tbh we would be happy with a guild hall that has a couple of merchants and some decorations, like the guild hall mordrem decoration that we bought with the supposed “ultimate pack” paying extra for something we can’t use feels abrasive. are we asking for equal content. no. are we asking for some content? yes.
2) Only thing that requires a group is raids. The open world is easy enough to solo or duo (especially since they nerfed the content in BWE3). The entire game does NOT have to be soloable. There needs to be stuff for guilds to do, which thankfully HoT is adding.
.Guild Missions you need players 3 or more players, Claiming Guild hall you need 5 or more players, Raids of course several players.
BW3 difficulty was bugged according to Anet or just a PR spin no one will really know outside of their studio.
I’ll believe it when I see it as far as the difficulty goes. I think BWE2 was just about perfect personally.
And yes, I should have thrown guild missions in there but to be honest….we already have guild missions in the game and they currently are not for solo players. So it should not come as a surprise that guild halls and new missions are not going to be that. It’s a given that anything guild related is not for the solo folk. And there NEEDS to be more guild content, it’s sorely lacking in this game.
i would accept all of what you said here except that anet specifically said in it’s guild hall preview articles that “every guild would be able to participate no matter how small including single player banking guilds who would be slow to build but would also be allowed a guild hall” it’s ok to not deliver content without a group focus. unless of course you promise that thats not whats happening first.
Warlock.7136 says “when i tried a partial quote post it said i couldn’t post a blank post. partial posts not working for me when using the quote system unless i quote the whole thing.”
Pompeia.5483 said “They already said they will have leaderless raid parties so you do not need a tag to raid..”
Warlock.7136 says ok ty good to hear. i had not heard that yet. the second and more important part of my post remains the same. if the goal is “every player/build/class accepted to every party every time” and “when one rune/build becomes the only acceptable rune/build that is unacceptable” then assembling raid/dungeon teams the same way pvp teams are formed, alot of harrasment could be bypassed and a step taken towards these goals.