Guild Wars 2

Hickeroar.9734:

Wompage.4586:

Hickeroar.9734:

Also, maybe abandoning the “flat, even terrain” could be good for GvG. Fighting in the ruins while having to deal with cover, terrain, etc, could make for some very interesting fights.

It needs to be even, no matter what side you start from though.

Sorry, even as in “fair,” yes, absolutely.

Even as in “square and (mostly) flat” just happens to be the present meta, but that doesn’t mean it has to be that way.

I mean 1 side can’t have an advantage based on which side they choose to start from. Thats what I mean by even.

Thesilentflute.8761:

Lol xenn that was the reason she had to times it by two because I counted both na and eu. I think she is counting each gvg team as 75 people which is ridiculous.

Aren’t you counting each GvG guild as 20? Equally ridiculous

Hickeroar.9734:

Also, maybe abandoning the “flat, even terrain” could be good for GvG. Fighting in the ruins while having to deal with cover, terrain, etc, could make for some very interesting fights.

It needs to be even, no matter what side you start from though.

To those people saying “go to the JP, problem solved” show me a spot in the jumping puzzle with enough room for 40 combatants + spectators, please.

Any way we can have an interview with “Thesilentflute” on the next episode of GvG Showdown?

lordkrall.7241:

Lets say the limit for each side on a map is 100 players.
If 20 of those players are doing GvG, we suddenly only have 80 players able to do anything useful. And you don’t see an issue with that?

If you can’t get something done with 80 people, I don’t know what to suggest to you.
Assuming there is no queue on the map, that would suggest you have less than 100 people anyway. So are you saying, unless you have a queue on the map, you can’t do anything useful?

MiLkZz.4789:

Got to agree with that tellerion, but I do think there should be a challange button on the website and guilds regulary declining GvGs should get a punishment against their rating.

Challenge button I can 100% get behind, with a record of accepts/declines (as long as the declining guild has an opportunity to display a reason)
However, the focus needs to be taken AWAY from the rating, not put more towards it.

I’ll be honest, the more the discussion about punishments etc get brought up, the more I worry about how intimidating this must seem for a new guild looking to get into the scene. Really a lot of the discussion doesn’t lead towards a friendly environment for new guilds at all. Take for example, the pre-assigned GvG’s based on matchups. Lets say you’re a new guild looking to get its first taste of GvG, you sign up on the website, Friday comes around, and you get matched up against GD/VII/VotF – realistically, its only going to end one way. And that’s fine if the new guild wants to challenge these guilds, but they shouldn’t be FORCED to fight anyone they don’t want to.

If we want this to go anywhere, we NEED the community to grow bigger than it is currently, and that means we NEED to think about any decision that gets made, and how it looks to new guilds looking to get involved in the scene. Believe me, I know how frustrating it is to get dodged, but this “get the pitchforks” attitude comes across a kittenildish.

Electre.6297:

A big congratulations to Barush (SiN the last night on the bay map AR) for their wonderful demonstration cheat this week

Led by the great must: AC dezoom, must for any bus that is not able to fight fair.

!http://img713.imageshack.us/img713/1982/m69z.jpg!

!http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/8579/j41u.jpg!

99% sure you could hit that spot if you built it directly in front of the gate

Hickeroar.9734:

What if there are two simultaneous GvGs with different server opponents? This happens pretty often.

Then we keep the buff permanently contested if there is a way to do so

MartyPartys.9187:

Just wanted to let you guys know what generated matches could look like.

Explanation on how the system would work:

- Matches would be generated every friday night (reset);

- It will select all guilds within your matchup;

- Guilds that have said that they don’t currently accept GvGs will be excluded;

- Guilds on your own server will be excluded;

- You will be able to set the game modes you play (10,15,20,25) – It will exclude all guilds that doesn’t play your numbers;

- If there are multiple choices a guild you haven’t fought in the last 14 days will be preferred over a guild that you did fight in the last 14 days;

- The chosen match will be the guild that has the closest rating to yours;

- The system will start with the guild with the highest rating, so the higher your rating, the higher your chance for a challenging match.

- There will be two tiers, one for guilds with a rating of 1400 and higher and one for newcomer guilds + guilds with a rating of less than 1400.

The following link is the first draft of a system like this.
note: this is not implemented in the website, it’s just to show you guys how it would generate matches and if it’s a smart move to do.

Rating used is the rating from last friday’s reset, the shown generated matches would have been the matches for this week.

http://gw2gvg.com/generated_matches.php

Oh and there will not be any punishment for not accepting the challenge, I’d rather look into rewarding the guilds that did accept the challenge in any way, suggestions are welcome.

Pro’s of this system would be that:

- Most guilds will get a challenging match for the week;
- Guilds don’t have to look for a match, it will be given;
- The ladder will stabilize alot faster as more matches happen (especially around the same time) not to mention that guilds will be matched with a guild with the closest rating;
- Newcomer guilds won’t be able to jump right to the top anymore as they will be matched with other newcomers or guilds with a rating less than 1400;

Cons:

- Not every guild will find a match due to having different ammount of guilds per server (For example Piken Square vs Vizunah);

Anyway let me know what you’d think of a system like this and if you think the generated matches (or the way it is being generated) are ok.

Discuss

Honestly, and no offence meant, but why?
I.e. why bother doing this, when if a guild wants to GvG another guild, they will, if they don’t they won’t. What’s to stop all guilds who are dodging currently, to just say they arent accepting gvgs on the site, and then pick and choose who they gvg? Which is exactly what they are doing currently. All this does (in my eyes) is highlight potential GvG’s to guilds that would probably arrange these on their own anyway.

Correct me if i’ve overlooked something here though

Hickeroar.9734:

Snowstorm.3897:

We can’t formulate a decision regarding that without first knowing the full game mechanics behind obtaining the buff. I do agree though, it has the potential to destroy the GvG scene utterly, or at least make it a joke compared to what it is now.

Gotta say, it’s getting really frustrating that ANet is completely tight lipped on this topic… A statement of SOME kind would be appreciated so we can set proper expectations and levels of hope, but….nothing. :-/ The idea that a change like this could be on the horizon, with the potential to kill GvG “utterly” as you put it, is really depressing when we know we may have no way to get around it.

Best case scenario for us… They fill in the lake, and replace it with 4-5 KotH style objectives that you have to hold to get the buff. Meaning most likely, if you hold the buff, you’ll get your towers taken, meaning the buff will likely never be up. It’s sad that we need the buff to be trash for GvG to continue.

covenn.7165:

(however they do mask mostly being able to pick out individual players… which top guild absolutely do).

And the ghost tonic provides a counter to leader sniping, albeit a minor one.

covenn.7165:

Matches need to speed up as well and teams taking 20 minutes between rounds has got to stop. I think a clock rule should be added as well. For example: If Team B is taking too long, Team A can notify them that they are being put on the clock. If Team B is not ready within 10 minutes of that point, the round is forfeit.

Appearance changing potions need to be explicitly excluded for numerous reasons because they can mask class, race, etc. and prevent opponents from identifying key people in fights. It is nothing more than a crutch. The bigger reason is the absolute absurdity of everyone on a side running with a shape change.

lolno. I have never known anyone take 20mins between rounds unless its waiting for a blob fight somewhere else on the map to end to get rid of skill-lag. I’ll assume you are exaggerating to make a point though. There are plenty of legitimate reasons for delays.
And seriously the ghost tonic debate is old news, people need to learn to deal with it.
Masking class? Race? Attunements, Virtues, signets.

LilMcGinley.3890:

Why not have just an overall Win-Loss record then, or alphabetical or ordered by last GvG? Why create a pseudo-ranking system that people will drool over when it is pointless?

This is exactly what would be best imo. Simply a catalogue of previous results. The rating brings more trouble than its worth.

LilMcGinley.3890:

Wompage.4586:

Elder Sang.2058:

d. Exception on rule 4c: Every player has to clear the stacks they have gathered on weapons/equipment using sigils (ex. Bloodlust) before entering a GvG. Stacks gained during a previous game of the same GvG can be maintained.

With regards to your 2nd post…
Nobody should be FORCED to GvG. Dodges will happen, but the community has to police itself here. If a guild is known to be dodging many GvG’s, then they look like pricks. No other punishment necessary.
Really, people should take a step away from the leaderboards, and quite frankly, stop giving so much of a kitten. That goes for both sides of the spectrum, people desperate to make it to the top, and those scared to lose rating.

I think I saw someone from VII post saying that they send out 3-4 GvG Requests a week and they ask what guild he is from and the instant he states his guild, he is met with “No” or “Can’t make it” etc. If that happens for a month or essentially there is a boycott against a guild, they’d be dropped or punished. That is completely unfair and I agree with you. You can’t force people to GvG but there does need to be a limit where, if you get the #1 spot, you can’t sit comfortably atop.

If you are “number 1” on whatever ranking system there is, I honestly don’t think you should be allowed to decline ANY request for a fight up to a certain limit per week (1 or 2). If you are Rank 1, you should welcome any chance to prove it and any guild should have the chance to show they can/could beat you.

I get what you’re saying, but lets say MYA, sitting at #2 spot, just start declining GvG’s against any of the guilds in the top 10. No sanctions are needed, because the leaderboards mean absolutely nothing, but the community would regard them in a negative light (no disrespect to MYA, purely using you as an example<3 )
EDIT: I see now TUP have joined gw2gvg, and are now in 2nd place with precisely 1 win, which actually illustrates my point better

The leaderboards are pointless anyway. When you can get to #6 by beating 4 guilds in 10v10 from REALLY low tier servers, the whole thing becomes a farce anyway.

I stress again, there is no need to “punish” guilds, as your spot on the leaderboard means nothing. The top 10 on gw2gvg, are NOT the top10 guilds right now in combat.

Elder Sang.2058:

d. Exception on rule 4c: Every player has to clear the stacks they have gathered on weapons/equipment using sigils (ex. Bloodlust) before entering a GvG. Stacks gained during a previous game of the same GvG can be maintained.

Can you say snowball? Can’t say i’d be happy with anyone fighting with stacks tbh.

With regards to your 2nd post…
Nobody should be FORCED to GvG. Dodges will happen, but the community has to police itself here. If a guild is known to be dodging many GvG’s, then they look like pricks. No other punishment necessary.
Really, people should take a step away from the leaderboards, and quite frankly, stop giving so much of a kitten. That goes for both sides of the spectrum, people desperate to make it to the top, and those scared to lose rating.

EP, EU tour now?

mini.6018:

Wompage.4586:

mini.6018:

Devitz.2136:

Wompage.4586:

Some shenanigans from Second Law, last night in EB (includes full TS)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=scRbh9Vl_D0

n1, they obviously needed arrow carts and balistas on the wall
kisses from INC, I just would love to see Piken instead of Drakkar here

Have fun people, hope to meet you soon

What difference would have that made ? except you blob more…

GvG’s against VII/INC/GH/MYA +more is the difference Mini

Actually i was pointing out at the comment adressed clearly at the 1st part of the video :P

My mistake, I misread

mini.6018:

Devitz.2136:

Wompage.4586:

Some shenanigans from Second Law, last night in EB (includes full TS)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=scRbh9Vl_D0

n1, they obviously needed arrow carts and balistas on the wall
kisses from INC, I just would love to see Piken instead of Drakkar here

Have fun people, hope to meet you soon

What difference would have that made ? except you blob more…

GvG’s against VII/INC/GH/MYA +more is the difference Mini

EB shenanigans with Second Law (including TS)

Some shenanigans from Second Law, last night in EB (includes full TS)

Maybe not the best place to ask, but I got curious while looking ahead towards future matchups/opponents/GvGs etc – I heard a rumour that FURY have left Piken? Truth?

Pinko.2076:

People need to be careful about adding too many rules to this stuff.

100% this.

There’s also a danger of this snowballing out of control. It starts off with banning warbanners & food, then its no veils, then no timewarps, and so on and so on.

Food can make or break a spec, if we want to encourage build diversity, and a diverse meta, food has to be included in that. Without food you’ll just find specs/gear that can afford to run without those stats (you’ll see much more PVT)

Ogre.1750:

Only high level bouts last longer than a minute anyways, or so i seem to percieve. Its a fast biz, the deathmatch biz o7

The longest rounds are by far the most fun. Those 5 minute slugfests. The adrenaline when you see someone go down, on either team. The epic comebacks that aren’t won or lost on a single push. I was a sweaty mess by the end of some of the rounds against GD and VotF, i’ll take that over a 1 minute fight any day.

Warbanners are a good aoe dps asset for your team, but lets be honest, not many people are using them as an offensive utility.
Clutch banners win games, and I don’t think they should be discouraged. From a personal opinion though, if you are running more than 3 warbanners, you are accepting that people are going to get downed, and using banners to mask a bigger overall problem within your guild

Caid.4932:

Speaking of ethics or rules – anyone else think ghost tonics should be frowned upon?
Focusing specific players seems like a legitimate tactic to me and preventing it in that manner just seems a bit … underhanded (?)

The thing is… I knew what sacrx looked like. I know what Mithrillx looks like. I know what Vanz looks like. I could very easily focus these without a ghost tonic. However when we fight guilds who we don’t know, but they know us, and know sylas. It scews the playing field a little. Tonics level it out a bit

Yaro.3251:

Yeah, well, this is really disappointing.

Just shows the disconnect between most dedicated players and Anet who has no idea how vital GvG is for WvW, for keeping competition and motivation high.

I guess their perfect WvW is when all servers are like Vizunah. I’d love to see how it works out for them if GvG scene would disappear from WvW like this thread disappeared from WvW forum.

I just really REALLY hope this isn’t anet hinting at their stance on GvG.

I find it amusing how this is removed from the WvW forums for not being about WvW yet the daily “please nerf thieves” threads remain

No EU GvG’s in the “upcoming” section on gw2gvg? Going to be a slow week

EDIT: What a joke this has been moved.

Caliban.3176:

Jamais vu.5284:

This match everyone no native English speak because this no talk in thread

Not everyone on a French server is French …

And not everyone on BB is Spanish

- We have added GvG arenas
- We have removed all siege from the game
- We have removed all objective upgrades from the game
- We have upgraded our servers, the end of skill lag is finally here
- We will be locking all threads related to the AoE cap
- We hope you enjoy your new fighting experience, have fun roaming

MartyPartys.9187:

Hipster.1264:

We gotta sponsor Ogro dem gems

Even if, there is a week cooldown on transfers so you would miss most of the fights.

It could work if there are multiple streamers, 1 for every server all using the same channel.

Someone could potentially shoutcast the stream.
Like, watching the stream, and then shoutcasting to those watching the stream via TS.
I.E. Everyone is watching a player stream, including the caster, and the caster is casting the action on the stream, rather than live and in person. This would cut down on spectator clutter too imo. Have a public TS channel where only the caster has talk power. Idk, i’m just throwing up ideas now.

It would require more people like ogro/sabull though, people with strong ties to the scene, and knowledge about whats going on, but without an affiliation to a current guild.

Could be something interesting for the 5star fights though. I’d love to watch GD vs VII livestream with shoutcasting.

Darius Glazkov.9750:

Wompage.4586:

On the subject of spectators. I’d love to see eventually a TS channel where the spectators can have someone shoutcast the fights live for them while they watch.
Realistically, without an official arena with spectator mode, this isn’t feasible, unless the casters are willing to pay a disgusting amount of gems each week.

funny you bring this up, i joked with some people about doing this recently – at least for NA. :P

I blame doiid and his /s shoutcasting

Creo.8750:

Hipster.1264:

I recommend you watching “The Book” on Ogre’s Channel- he explains a lot in it.
For tactics etc i fear nothing is online yet, but I think the movements, regroups, combos, harrassment etc is pretty obvious to see in those battles. But maybe it’s just because we have the “trained eye”,

I can’t find the video that you mention, could you post a link here?

The movements, regroups, combos and harrassment are indeed pretty obvious, even to me, I am asking about something more advanced than that. A couple examples from other games:

• line of sight abuse (we can hit them, they mostly can’t — fighting in the open kind of ruins that, which is a pity, since there’s a lot of interesting gameplay here, but maybe parts of it still exist?),
• choke points (fighting in the open doesn’t help here either, but this should still be partly doable),
• cc chains and cross-cc (yeah, I know, there are no diminishing returns, but again should still be partly doable),
• grips into / out of death zones (thiefs can grip, right? maybe there are grips of several people or spammable grips, too),

etc.

Is anything like that possible / practiced? I heard something about focusing targets, that’s good, although pretty basic, anything deeper along that line?

Thanks.

There’s a link to the aforementioned video.

CC chaining is very doable, and pretty much essential in defeating some of the tankier guilds. Guardian GS pulls into hammerstuns is probably the most basic example I can give at this time in the morning. Same with focus fire and harassment of key targets. That is certainly becoming more common, even in 20v20. You’re more likely to get the ele to kitten up his waterfield placement if he’s constantly at 5k health.

LoS/Chokes are limited by the arena we have currently. I think most people would prefer an open, flat space to GvG on if Anet ever implemented something official. Chokes especially would probably just turn every GvG into a “who has the most aoe” contest. LoS would be interesting to have though.
The issues with trying to find other spots are numerous. Proximity to objectives dictates how likely you are to get unaware randoms adding on. Also a place for spectators & non participating guildmates needs to be considered. The hill, while not ideal, does serve well for that purpose.

On the subject of spectators. I’d love to see eventually a TS channel where the spectators can have someone shoutcast the fights live for them while they watch.
Realistically, without an official arena with spectator mode, this isn’t feasible, unless the casters are willing to pay a disgusting amount of gems each week.

If we call it GaG (Guild against Guild) will you be happy?

if we could all do our best to not get Ogro’s thread locked, that would be great

NornBearPig.9814:

If you don’t like GvG then you should run your zerg over to their GvGs and farm them. Then they will qq louder and Anet will give them their own arena and everyone will be happy.

Ask Augury Rock how that just went for them…

Yeah!

I hate so much when I see people in “guilds” having fun with their “guild” Why can’t they just all stick on the commander? Or sit on a treb/ac with the rest of us?
I don’t understand why people bother testing their guild strength against other guilds. Everyone knows the best way to win the PPT war is to just walk round as one big unit.
Most of all I hate people having fun.
Anet plz discourage fun.

We did some 15v15 scrims last night. Personally, the only difference I could feel between 20’s and 15’s was the amount of people sat on the sidelines.
/shrug
Maybe we were playing it wrong.

Both Guard Leech, and Applied Fortitude stack with on kill sigil stacks.

Stacks on stacks on stacks

Dranul.2094:

Wompage.4586:

Personally, I think you should only rally if you make the killing blow on an enemy, rather than if the enemy dies.

This would have zero impact on solo roaming, and would promote more active rezzing in team fights

No, just no. This would make it a numbers win game. Rather than with tight play being able to beat 2, 3 times your number. Would make open field vs zergs a lost cause. One or two of your guys caught, you have to manually red .. you’d lose a lot attempting rez.

Coming from a wvw guild I’m quite surprised by your view. Rallies aren’t the best system but removing it would kill guild vs mass numbers. Literally grinded down.

I disagree. In the current situation, losing one person is an insta-loss for a guild at times.

I put this in the same basket as rezzing from dead in combat. It makes brainless play possible.

Personally, I think you should only rally if you make the killing blow on an enemy, rather than if the enemy dies.

This would have zero impact on solo roaming, and would promote more active rezzing in team fights

I prefer 20’s personally. To me, the lower you go, the more focus fire and burst comes into play. In a game without a dedicated healer/support class this tactic can be pretty much uncounterable in 15 or lower.
This can obviously come into play in 20’s too. Keep an eye on Warforgis for a guild that loves to pick a player to die right. kittening. now. and doesn’t let up until they either die or become useless.

Granted I haven’t done a lot of 15’s personally, so this is just my observation

25’s can create some very broken compositions. You have a balanced 20man set up. You can either balance the other 5 people, or just add 5 of something to create and imbalanced monster.
7 necro teams? possible in 25’s
A massive melee ball of death? 10 guardians 5 warriors? possible in 25’s
6 thieves for impossible single target burst? possible in 25’s

Does 25’s create a more “varied meta” in terms of comps than 20v20? Probably, but no more than 10v10 would do too.

Just my 2c

Elder Sang.2058:

If we can have +5000 signatures we can prove Anet there is a large enough demand. Please sign with your ingame name.

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/official-gvg-setup-in-gw2/.

Nothing personal man, but I would have signed it if it wasn’t tacked onto the back of your own personal suggestions for the format, some of which I just don’t agree with.

I don’t think a petition is the best way to go about this really. Anet knows the GvG scene is here, the best thing we can do is try to be a positive force in the GW2 community, and just keep enjoying ourselves.
Anet will never agree to something over a petition, can you imagine the snowball if they did? Suddenly there would be 300 threads of “petition to have x/y/z”

GvG as it is now in GW2 works the way we want it to work. Guilds agree on a ruleset and go from there. A dedicated arena could potentially harm the scene just as much as it could help it.

Disclaimer: Yes I said GvG and GW2 in the same paragraph. Can we please not bring up the same discussion again. Achilles pls

Says the guy on his 3rd “please fix GvG” thread

Is this the new fun game?
How many times is this guy going to make the same thread?

PredatoR.5247:

agg has siezed #1 NA wooooppiieeee

Any plans for an EU tour?

Daecollo.9578:

it would be a direct counter to Zerging

Except the “zerg” also has no ICD’s so now all you have is a more powerful zerg…

Seeing as you get literally nothing for “winning” WvW, both the PPT lovers, and the GvG players are all playing for exactly the same thing; Pride, and imaginary points, on a leaderboard.

If you want GvG gone from WvW, the best thing you can do is help support, and promote the scene, and hope that anet gives us somewhere seperate to GvG. I don’t think anyone actually wants to GvG in WvW, we’d all rather we could do it somewhere else too.

You have to see though, that all threads like this do is create a circle jerk from both sides.

Caid.4932:

I dont know. People still read a lot into these sparring matches. I definitely think the mentality of those involved could do with being adjusted a bit.

100% this!

As people have mentioned, the GvG meta is generally very cookie-cutter and stale, due to nobody wanting to risk trying anything new, as every fight is “official”

The problem with sparring, is that even when you take the “official” part away, the hype is still there, the stream is still there, the scores are still kept, and the aftermath still happens all the same as if it was official. Our sparring against GD even got feature spot on GvG showdown this week. So there is still just as much pressure to stick to what you know in terms of meta. We were already sparring without either of our usual raid leaders, if we had tried a radically different setup too, the result, and subsequent discussion about the fights, could well have been very different from an outsider PoV.

Sparring is also seen as one guild chickening out of fighting another. I think the gw2gvg leaderboards has a lot to do with this attitude problem to be honest. Scnd were doing scrims against BuLL and sIN back when we were on Piken, and nobody cared back then. I’d even go as far as to say, that most people couldn’t even tell you the score of those, despite the rep’s of the guilds involved. Now with the leaderboards it has become a different issue, and while they remain in the format they are, I don’t think the meta can evolve radically.

Personally i’d welcome guilds approaching us for sparring fights, so that both guilds can enjoy themselves, and learn something, rather than sit in a boring matchup all week because nobody wanted to lose rating.

Just my opinion

Good luck in your future matchups everyone.
GD, hope we meet again soon